Dave, I definitely agree with you on Seiji Ozawa and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. They were the Rodney Dangerfield of great orchestra/conductor combos, in the sense that they seem to get no respect! Their Ravel recordings were made during the 1970s, when Ozawa and the BSO were hot stuff. In fact, they could probably give Sir Georg Solti and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra a run for their money on any given day!
Sorting the wheat from the chaff. I'm all for that! Nice one, Dave. Always love your talks when you go 'off piste' as it were. As slight aside, I have the impression that there are currently a lot of releases of great works, (which already have a rich, long-established legacy of numerous superb recordings) by 'new' 'young' 'out-there' performers and/or conductors who seem to think that by somehow tinkering with, and consequently making scrappy recordings, are having 'something new to say!' Balderdash, I call that. Why not just make an excellent recording?
Talking of "under the radar" Ravel cycles, I'm going to raise a flag for Jan Pascal Tortelier's cycle on Chandos. The Ulster Orchestra plays its heart out in these recordings - these interpretations have a reliability and likeability that remind me of Martinon's cycle for EMI. I reckon the Tortelier Debussy/Ravel recordings and Neeme Jarvi's Richard Strauss cycle were two of the most underrated things Chandos did in their earlier years (in terms of "standard" repertoire).
@wappingbpy, I agree with you on the Martinon/Ravel cycle. I have the 5 Angel L.P. issues. Some great music there, Dave! Off topic, Martinon's Debussy cycle is wonderful, also on Angel. Enamored with the Fantaisie for Piano and Orchestra w/Ciccolini, a student of A.B. Michelengeli.
Hey, Dave. Speaking of Ravel, I'm pretty sure I discovered your channel here on YT by way of a complete Ravel box set review. Exactly which one, however, I don't remember as it was one of your earlier videos.
On the ‘good recording’ note: Samson Francois’ recordings of the Ravel Concertos and Gaspard de La Nuit are phenomenal. In particular, his more direct and ‘muscular’ performance of the Left Hand Concerto is without compare (IMHO of course).
@DavesClassicalGuide - I have the same feeling but can't articulate why. I'm trying to figure out who were the truly great performers of Debussy's piano oeuvre.
Dave, it's just not a Ravel anniversary year, but the Boulez Centenary; although, I can't really see DG, Sony, Erato re-releasing all of the box sets that came out following his 90th birthday, and then his death. Stranger things have happened! Better get out all of those snacks again to get you through the DG Boulez box set. ;)
There isn't a disc dedicated to Ravel, but there are three works, each included on separate discs: Piano Concerto in G, Rapsodie Espagnole, and Bolero.
Being from the South Shore and going to school at Northeastern University gave me the opportunity to grow up with Ozawa and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Every Friday (from 1977 to 1982), I would go to Symphony Hall to purchase a ticket for the afternoon concert. Then I would stop by the New England Conservatory of Music and listen to the jazz band rehearse (I met Vic Furth one morning). After graduating from college, I moved to NJ and followed the NJ Symphony, and was involved in the Princeton music scene.
Thanks for mentioning Ozawa. In my non professional opinion, he’s the most under rated conductor I’ve listened to. Is it because he followed Munch? Is there xenophobia in this as well? Whatever the reason, he took a lot of criticism much of which I believe was not deserved. His later work with Saito Kinen, when you can find it, was also beautiful. It ought to be about the music. Hopefully we are getting there.
The word seems to be that Ozawa has been "underrated". I'm not sure who has been rating him, but I offer a mixed bag. I sat thru too many concerts where he seemed to be "going thru the motions", along with some really fine ones (e.g Damnation of Faust) , but went with Boulez or Martinon on recordings of Ravel. Even some Ormandy. I won't be buying another set because of space. As to Abbado: good on Rossini.
I think of him as pretty well-appreciated, certainly in the city of Boston. I did a summer program at Berklee and would pass a big mural of him every single day.
Underrated is an overused, meaningless term. Ozawa was a fine conductor, but like many (most?) could be erratic. His recording output proves it. Reach into the bin and take out a random Ozawa recording and it might get a great one, but there are plenty that would disappoint. Not necessarily a disagreement in interpretation, but from a lack of...dedication. The guy could phone it in like Maazel and Abbado at their worst. In some rep (Ravel) he excelled, but plenty of other recordings, taken in isolation, could well leave you wondering why he became a conductor.
I saw Bringunier’s Cleveland orchestra debut in 2009. Rachmaninov 2nd piano concerto and something else…I think it was pictures at an exhibition and the fact that I can barely remember what the other piece was is all you need to know about how unremarkable I thought he was in real time…which is born out by his lack of anything resembling a major career for someone making a Cleveland orchestra debut at the age of 22 or 23.
I love the late Boulez recordings with the Berliner, but have never been convinced by the Abbado set. He seems to have no particular understanding of what this music is about: fine playing, fine recording, but where are the mystery, the delicacy, the elegance ? Listen to the Pavane pour une infante défunte. The whole piece is played without any real dynamic or atmosphere nuances. Compare this to the old Cluytens recording (EMI) of the same piece, what a world of differences ! Here you clearly hear different episodes with different atmosphere, different feelings...
Recent release by seong Jin cho of all solo piano music (not arrangements though), interested to hear others thoughts. I was disappointed since I enjoy some of his playing. Seems badly recorded, and also quite dully played, no sense of atmosphere or sensuous playing to say the least.
That first paragraph of Classics Today's review of Yuja Wang's Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos is spot-on. (has to do with artist image exploitation) Thank you for writing that, Dave!
Dave, you'll be glad to hear that DG is about to re-release Andris Nelsons Shostakovich Symphonies at budget price for his anniversary this year. I don't know why anyone would want to commemorate 50th anniversary of someone's death, but I assume DG must be desperate for sales. Anyway, from your reviews, this set ALD i.e. avoid like death!
@@DavesClassicalGuide yes I got the 5th because a NY Times reviewer called it the most perfect 5th ever. I thought it was pretty good but not the best ever.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Totally agree, Dave and not keeping an open mind on interpretation. I have listened to Mahler's 7th by Inbal and I quite like it, it's not your so-called "normal" one. It's certainly darker, but is it wrong? Have a cup of coffee on me!
Thanks!
Thank you!
Dave, I definitely agree with you on Seiji Ozawa and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. They were the Rodney Dangerfield of great orchestra/conductor combos, in the sense that they seem to get no respect! Their Ravel recordings were made during the 1970s, when Ozawa and the BSO were hot stuff. In fact, they could probably give Sir Georg Solti and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra a run for their money on any given day!
Sorting the wheat from the chaff. I'm all for that! Nice one, Dave. Always love your talks when you go 'off piste' as it were. As slight aside, I have the impression that there are currently a lot of releases of great works, (which already have a rich, long-established legacy of numerous superb recordings) by 'new' 'young' 'out-there' performers and/or conductors who seem to think that by somehow tinkering with, and consequently making scrappy recordings, are having 'something new to say!' Balderdash, I call that. Why not just make an excellent recording?
Good question!
Talking of "under the radar" Ravel cycles, I'm going to raise a flag for Jan Pascal Tortelier's cycle on Chandos. The Ulster Orchestra plays its heart out in these recordings - these interpretations have a reliability and likeability that remind me of Martinon's cycle for EMI. I reckon the Tortelier Debussy/Ravel recordings and Neeme Jarvi's Richard Strauss cycle were two of the most underrated things Chandos did in their earlier years (in terms of "standard" repertoire).
The orchestra isn't as good as you say, but the cycle contains some very good performances (and the orchestration of the Piano Trio is a blast).
@wappingbpy, I agree with you on the Martinon/Ravel cycle. I have the 5 Angel L.P. issues. Some great music there, Dave! Off topic, Martinon's Debussy cycle is wonderful, also on Angel. Enamored with the Fantaisie for Piano and Orchestra w/Ciccolini, a student of A.B. Michelengeli.
Hopefully we get some new recordings of the Piano trio
I have the Ozawa. It is truly terrific.
Deutsche Grammophon is going to release the Ozawa cycle as part of its Original Source Vinyl series. I know you are excited about that, Dave! :D
It’s available now as a pre order in the DG online shop. A 4 LP set.
Another raspberry for Tzigane! You never let me down, Dave! 😅 And I don’t think anyone has ever objected!
Hey, Dave. Speaking of Ravel, I'm pretty sure I discovered your channel here on YT by way of a complete Ravel box set review. Exactly which one, however, I don't remember as it was one of your earlier videos.
On the ‘good recording’ note: Samson Francois’ recordings of the Ravel Concertos and Gaspard de La Nuit are phenomenal. In particular, his more direct and ‘muscular’ performance of the Left Hand Concerto is without compare (IMHO of course).
Already reviewed at ClassicsToday.com and in a video here.
Question on which I'd love your opinion: What do you feel about Walter Gieseking?
Ambivalent.
@DavesClassicalGuide - I have the same feeling but can't articulate why. I'm trying to figure out who were the truly great performers of Debussy's piano oeuvre.
One performer whose recordings of Debussy I have enjoyed is Robert Casadesus, but this may reflect my inexperience.
@@DavesClassicalGuide - I did see your video on Benedetti!
Nonsense! Casadesus is terrific.
Dave, it's just not a Ravel anniversary year, but the Boulez Centenary; although, I can't really see DG, Sony, Erato re-releasing all of the box sets that came out following his 90th birthday, and then his death. Stranger things have happened! Better get out all of those snacks again to get you through the DG Boulez box set. ;)
I'm not very hungry...
Stranger things have happened - on UK Amazon the Sony complete Monteux box is suddenly available again, having been out of print since 2015.
I wonder if there is any good Ravel in the upcoming Ormandy mega-box?
I'll let you know.
There isn't a disc dedicated to Ravel, but there are three works, each included on separate discs: Piano Concerto in G, Rapsodie Espagnole, and Bolero.
Being from the South Shore and going to school at Northeastern University gave me the opportunity to grow up with Ozawa and the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Every Friday (from 1977 to 1982), I would go to Symphony Hall to purchase a ticket for the afternoon concert. Then I would stop by the New England Conservatory of Music and listen to the jazz band rehearse (I met Vic Furth one morning).
After graduating from college, I moved to NJ and followed the NJ Symphony, and was involved in the Princeton music scene.
Thanks for mentioning Ozawa. In my non professional opinion, he’s the most under rated conductor I’ve listened to. Is it because he followed Munch? Is there xenophobia in this as well? Whatever the reason, he took a lot of criticism much of which I believe was not deserved. His later work with Saito Kinen, when you can find it, was also beautiful. It ought to be about the music. Hopefully we are getting there.
His Takemitsu is fabulous !
+1. At least as far as recordings go, Ozawa has a LOT of amazing work out there. Terribly underrated.
The word seems to be that Ozawa has been "underrated". I'm not sure who has been rating him, but I offer a mixed bag. I sat thru too many concerts where he seemed to be "going thru the motions", along with some really fine ones (e.g Damnation of Faust) , but went with Boulez or Martinon on recordings of Ravel. Even some Ormandy. I won't be buying another set because of space. As to Abbado: good on Rossini.
I think of him as pretty well-appreciated, certainly in the city of Boston. I did a summer program at Berklee and would pass a big mural of him every single day.
Underrated is an overused, meaningless term. Ozawa was a fine conductor, but like many (most?) could be erratic. His recording output proves it. Reach into the bin and take out a random Ozawa recording and it might get a great one, but there are plenty that would disappoint. Not necessarily a disagreement in interpretation, but from a lack of...dedication. The guy could phone it in like Maazel and Abbado at their worst. In some rep (Ravel) he excelled, but plenty of other recordings, taken in isolation, could well leave you wondering why he became a conductor.
I saw Bringunier’s Cleveland orchestra debut in 2009. Rachmaninov 2nd piano concerto and something else…I think it was pictures at an exhibition and the fact that I can barely remember what the other piece was is all you need to know about how unremarkable I thought he was in real time…which is born out by his lack of anything resembling a major career for someone making a Cleveland orchestra debut at the age of 22 or 23.
His tenure in Zurich was unfortunate... Members of the orchestra were heard saying "he needs to learn a lot... - we're trying to help him"
By the way, you mentioned Boulez... I just learned that it's also his birth centennial this year 😅
How's he doing?
I love the late Boulez recordings with the Berliner, but have never been convinced by the Abbado set. He seems to have no particular understanding of what this music is about: fine playing, fine recording, but where are the mystery, the delicacy, the elegance ? Listen to the Pavane pour une infante défunte. The whole piece is played without any real dynamic or atmosphere nuances. Compare this to the old Cluytens recording (EMI) of the same piece, what a world of differences ! Here you clearly hear different episodes with different atmosphere, different feelings...
My uneducated thought on why they let this one out: The cover is very pretty.....😏
That's a good reason.
Recent release by seong Jin cho of all solo piano music (not arrangements though), interested to hear others thoughts. I was disappointed since I enjoy some of his playing. Seems badly recorded, and also quite dully played, no sense of atmosphere or sensuous playing to say the least.
Video forthcoming.
That first paragraph of Classics Today's review of Yuja Wang's Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos is spot-on.
(has to do with artist image exploitation)
Thank you for writing that, Dave!
Dave, you'll be glad to hear that DG is about to re-release Andris Nelsons Shostakovich Symphonies at budget price for his anniversary this year. I don't know why anyone would want to commemorate 50th anniversary of someone's death, but I assume DG must be desperate for sales. Anyway, from your reviews, this set ALD i.e. avoid like death!
It's not really competitive, although it has half a dozen really good performances and I enjoy hearing Boston play the music (in the good ones).
@@DavesClassicalGuide yes I got the 5th because a NY Times reviewer called it the most perfect 5th ever. I thought it was pretty good but not the best ever.
I really don't understand why anyone claims anything is "the best ever." Er....
@@DavesClassicalGuide Totally agree, Dave and not keeping an open mind on interpretation. I have listened to Mahler's 7th by Inbal and I quite like it, it's not your so-called "normal" one. It's certainly darker, but is it wrong? Have a cup of coffee on me!