Schluter Ditra FAIL Tile Install: You WON'T Believe Cause!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Schluter Ditra FAIL Tile Install: You WON'T Believe what caused ditra failure! Keep in mind this was not an actual ditra failure of the Schluter DITRA product itself. This was a tile installation failure at the thinset mortar level, which we were forced to address and implement a corrective action to the dried thinset in order to proceed with our Schluter ditra over concrete and ditra around toilet flange area.
Floor tiling parts, materials and tools use din this video:
💲 Schluter Ditra 1/8" Underlayment 54 sq ft: amzn.to/38B5Dwq
💲 Schluter KERDI-BAND - 5" X 33': amzn.to/2vieK6O
💲 Schluter KERDI-BAND - 5" X 16'5" (Smaller): amzn.to/3aG6lKo
💲 Primo Tools Tile Back Butter Buddy: amzn.to/2GjebvD
💲 Schluter DITRA Trowel - 11/64 X 11/64 SQUARE NOTCH: amzn.to/3aHp6xo
💲 Schluter ALL-SET WHITE 50 lbs bag MODIFIED THIN-SET MORTAR amzn.to/2uoOmYy
💲 Tile Used Home Depot SKU #1001402653: $1.39 Strata 12 in. x 24 in. Glazed Ceramic
More Jeff Ostroff videos:
How to Install Schluter Ditra, Avoid Cracked Tiles, Grout: • How to Install Schlute...
Best Bathroom DIY Remodeling & Tiling Tips: • Best Bathroom DIY Remo...
Was this a schluter failure?
In then end, the Schluter floor tile products held up just fine, it was a simple case of the tenant's dog got loose and ran into the unsecured bathroom and walked all over the wet thinset, creating hundreds of paw print impressions all over the soft thin set mortar, creating this bathroom tile fail before we even had a chance to install bathroom tile as part of this complete bathroom renovation project.
#schluter #ditra #fail
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Oh man I’m installing one this week or next. Never used this product before but I hear it’s the best. Can’t wait to see what the issue is. Thanks for all you do!
While you're waiting, be sure to watch our video from a few weeks ago where we show you how to install Schluter DITRA: "How to Install Schluter Ditra, Avoid Cracked Tiles, Grout": th-cam.com/video/gG-Rx-UhIhA/w-d-xo.html
Your video is very misleading. You have labeled it as a Ditra failure....... in fact the Ditra did not fail. Should reconsider the name of the video. Maybe something about the dog walking across it but not that its a true failure. As I am a schluter distributor and a 22 year veteran installer I constantly look for videos for education and look for ways to educate my installers. You did an amazing job on your install. I saw you do stages of the install that most guys would not do. I commend you on your back buttering and also the small spacing between the base and tile that most guys dont realize need to be there
Thanks for the insight Brian, I always try to do things with engineering thinking, and use the TCNA rules.
I agree!! You are lucky to not be sitting in front of a lawsuit from Ditra!
A bit of clickbait doesn’t hurt 😊
Even the dog knew that you were doing it wrong 😑
lmfaooo yup
User Error Fail! Not The (Deetra) product.
It's a dog eat dog world out there
Yes good reply Zakaroo!! It’s pronounced Ditra (Deetra) been using this awesome product for 10 years now. And the title of this post makes it look like it’s a Ditra problem not a lack of closing space off to others problem!!
Haha! That's not a failure lol something that would probably happen to me with my dogs :-) Wish I had some tiling skills like that. Looks great!
Its funding the tenant even told me the dog was going to be caged up all night and told me not to bother putting the bathroom door back on the hinges for that very reason
That was not a fail, but rather a mishap!
Good recovery none the less 👍
I would add, if using the AllSet, do the min recommended water for tiling. I measured in the middle of the recommended for tiling and found it tooooo wet, I throw out the whole batch. Start out with less and see how it is going in the the first 2 min of mixing and add a more water if needed in the last 3min of the initial 5 min mix before the 10min slake and 3min final mix.
You installed the Schluter Ditra incorrectly. You should not have applied the thinset to the entire surface. You only needed to apply the thinset morter to the taped the seams.
Another reason why i fill the mat as I'm tiling. not before
Lol, well the main reason you should do it the way you do it is because its the correct way. This guy has no clue what he's doing here. He's defeating the purpose of the uncoupling system and hes weakening the strength of the tile adhesion, smh.
I don't agree with "Schluter Ditra Fail". I use it all the time. If you informed the tenants not to let the pet in the bathroom, it is their failure. If you didn't, then lesson learn.
He promised me the dog would be caged downstairs overnight, even told me not to bother leaning the bathroom door against the door frame! LOL!
My understanding is you don't put the thinset on top of the Ditra until you are ready to tile. Not sure why the thinset was left to harden without tiling.
Up to you. I think it silly to do it ahead of time. Btw I just tried mapei’s version of this membrane and liked it a lot better, it doesn’t have those empty waffles you need to add extra thinset to. 👍
You are wrong. Schluter says you can do it either way. I chose to let it dry overnight so I could move about the DITRA floor already to go. Sometimes it's about logistics and timing, the lateness of the day, so I finished installing the DITRA at 8:00 PM, with the tenant still living in the unit, time to head home for the night after that.
@@jeffostroff I understand if you want to fill the cavities (maybe you're photo is misleading), but looks like you have at least 1/8" of thinset on top of that Ditra.
@@PrettyHandyGirl What time stand in the video are you referring to?
@@jeffostroff 1:46-2:00
For the love of all that is good! That’s not a failure. Geez!
Jeff you have a very unique and calming voice. As soon as the video started i said hey that sounds like the guy who was doing the condo collapse
videos. Great videos on both topics.
Some sort of clickbate no fail bud !!! Just an inconvenience which happens
anytime I lose a few hours over something, it's a fail.
I see that in your preparation of the floor you pretty much filled the entire DITRA with thin-set prior to setting tile. (???)
As I understand the use of this DITRA product the square indent pattern is to be filled with the same mortar that you are using as you set the tile. This insures the tile & mortar are bonded INTO the DITRA to create a locking system. If you have filled the DITRA pattern prior to setting tile it's NOT being used to its full potential. It's almost the same as a flat surface like backer board or concrete. I have used this product more than a few times and have never seen this method until now. My opinion is that this method defeats the purpose of the DITRA. You could have just used the Schluter membrane system instead. (just sayin') 😎
I don't know where you get your info from but you're completely wrong in your assessment of what we did here. I used the exact same schluter all set mortar which is what I use for putting down the Detroit as well as tiling right over the dutra. Schluter tells us we can install it anyway we want we can apply the TH insert and fill in the holes the day before if we want to or we can wait until we're just about ready to tile and do it then. So your assessment is incorrect of me being wrong in deciding to trial in the thin set the night before. Don't just spout off what you think is right, you always have to read the actual directions directly from the company
I don't know where you get your info from but you're completely wrong in your assessment of what we did here. I used the exact same Schluter all set mortar which is what I use for putting down the DITRA as well as tiling right over the DITRA. Schluter tells us we can install it anyway we want, we can apply the thin set and fill in the holes the day before if we want to, or we can wait until we're just about ready to tile and do it then. So your assessment is incorrect of me being wrong in deciding to trial in the thin set the night before. Don't just spout off what you think is right, you always have to read the actual directions directly from the company
@@jeffostroff I've read the directions and it does NOT say anything about filling the holes prior to setting tile the night before. (page 19) HAVE A NICE DAY..!
@@m.j.hooligan8139 LOL It's amusing when uninformed people come in and try to do a mic drop and use all capital letters at the end LOL. Take a look at Schluter’s official video on their TH-cam channel and I have it set right to the point where they're installing DITRA th-cam.com/video/WCySxf-fx7o/w-d-xo.html. Don't you think by time they did this install on the entire bathroom that the mortar has already dried in those cavities where they applied the Kerdi band on the seams and edge by the wall and you can see the excess mortar filling up all of those cavities? Do you not see they effectively pre-filled the cavities? You can bet all of that will be dry by time you're done installing the Detroit in the bathroom. There is never an issue about having new wet mortar over an entire dried mortar as long as it's within a few days. We have also called and spoken to Schluter about this in the past and they have told us it is perfectly acceptable to backfill the cavities first and let it dry. Although they did say many installers prefer to just do it all at once when it's wet but sometimes time constraints prevent you from being able to tile immediately after so that's why filling the cavities the night before and then coming in and starting the tile the next morning is a great way to do it. Now I realize you will never want to believe you are wrong because you've already dug yourself in to a trench, but if you don't believe me you can call Schluter at, 888-472-4588 Press 2, and ask the technical advisor there whether it's OK to do what we did. They will tell you it is absolutely perfectly fine.
Sorry Jeff, but I'm positive M.J. Hooligan is correct. View the Schluter video th-cam.com/video/qa_l7U7zh0w/w-d-xo.html, and note that at 8:50 they mention how the thinset mortar is mechanically locked into the top of the membrane. The way you've pre-mortared the membrane you can't have the mechanical locking. When you installed your tile you'd have a mortar to mortar bond, which is not ideal. You can tile immediately after applying the membrane, and some of the cells will be filled with mortar by the waterproofing, but you really should leave the rest of the cells unfilled until you actually tile. I'm positive if you call Schluter they will tell you the same, their number is at the end of the video you linked. As far as the mortar drying before the membrane is installed, they mention this and say to avoid the mortar skimming. They even suggest installing in sections when you have a large piece of membrane to install.
I just did ditra. It was a pain to get hose air pockets out of the little squares but going on diagonal to the squares and back and fourth a few times does the trick. I was worried partially filled voids could cause problems. Little extra elbow grease but worth not having to second guess
yes, one of the reasons why I filled them in and let them dry overnight to make sure I did not scrape any mortar back out.
This is a old video but why did you put thinset on top of the ditra if you wasn't tiling ???? This was a big mistake and doesn't make sense.. you fill the waffle holes and then spread more thinset then add tiles.
Your statement is highly incorrect this is not a big mistake. If you read through the instructions for ditra, schluter tells you that you can either tile directly on top of it as soon as you fill in the cells with the mortar, or you can fill it in and smooth it off and let it dry overnight so that you don't have to worry about tracking mortar all over yourself.
this wouldn't have happened if you didn't try to prefill the Ditra. That's not the "textbook" installation. Textbook install, according to the manufacture is to fill, comb, lay tile. Easily avoidable mistake my man!
I checked with Schluter before doing this they said it is ok to do it either method. the problem was the tenant told me don't bother reinstalling the door, we will keep the dog locked up downstairs. That's why it happened, not because I combed the thin set on early. Your assessment of causality here was simply incorrect.
What failure?
Well it was a momentary failure. Still caused a couple of hours of repair work
You call that a failure then why would I subscribe
Well it wasn't a success! I spent 2 hours chiseling, grinding the floor back down because the tenant let his dog in the bathroom after promising me the dog would be caged overnight.
The work you complete demonstrates your commitment to the profession. I expected a true tile or preparation failure not the dog prints
Regards
I used Ditra when I did my bathroom, good product. I also used the Allset thinset. You’re right, it is good thinset very creamy and smooth. I like the tile you used and the tiled baseboards.
Great minds think alike!
Correct me if i'm wrong but the adhesive goes onto the floor first and then the matting adheres to the adhesive, or have i missed something?
You use the mortar to adhere the DITRA down to the floor first. That was done here. Then I troweled the tile mortar over the top to fill in the cells and make a smooth layer to tile over in the morning. But while it was wet is when the owner let his dog in there.
If you want to install it correctly do not add in the second step he added in for absolutely no reason. Tile adhesion 1 on 1, you want a rough surface to adhere tile to. Not to mention filling in all the cavities defeats the purpose of the uncoupling system, which is why you won't find anyone else online showing this type of install. You just fill in the seams with the proper membrane and thinset.
I've been watching your Titan videos but I'm also remodeling my bathroom and using Ditra and guess where I ended up. Talk about overlapping interests!
Failure? Seems he needs to learn the meaning of the word. He seems to think failure means a small inconvenience. Wierd!
hi
i want to install natural stone slab on this in living room and kitchen for the first time any suggestion thx
For natural stone, it is important to use white mortar, don't get gray. Schluter-requires the use of Schluter SET™, ALL-SET™, FAST-SET™ or an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting the requirements of ANSI A118.1 to install ceramic (including porcelain) and stone tile over DITRA . I prefer to use Schluter's Allset mortar.
Someones not getting their security deposit back :)
LOl, not it was all good, took about an hour to get the paw prints all scraped off, then it was back to business.
Just charge the customer another days worth of labor for out-of-scope work that wasn't in the contract.
Where was the fail? It came out great! That dog got ya a lot of views!
Having to file down all his dog prints, vacuum up, fill in the voids.
That I know for a fact ain’t no half inc trowel the way u use it that Becomes a 1/4 inch 😂 been in tile business sense 2005 if u use self leveling spacers I call that a beginner u should be able to make that floor just as straight with normal spacers self leveling spacers u must back butter the tile before putting it down I didn’t see that in this video I bet if u take a tile off it’s gonna have 60% of tinset on the floor and 40% on the tile please do a better job so I don’t have to keep replacing floors
sounds to be like you're a troll who has no experience in tiling. You can't even properly pay attention to a video, let alone what you are doing. Of course there is no 1/2" trowel here on the mortar, there is not supposed to be trowel lines ! This was the scratch coat for Schluter DITRA, where you fill in all the cells and leave the top surface of mortar as level as you. We have not even gotten to the point of talking about tiling yet because our surface mortar is not dry yet, and here you go off on some nonsense talking and rambling on about something not even related to this video. If you look at my full video on this bathroom remodel, set to the timestamp, you can see I used 1/2" trowel, and you'll see me back buttering. Clearly you are not qualified for this work and should not be criticizing the work of those of us who are when you know nothing about how the Schluter tiling systems work.
That's a failure on you why was there thinset on top of it when you weren't laying tile? The only thinset that should have been on it is where the band was installed.
You are allowed to fill in the cells and let them dry overnight. You can also fill them in right before you tile.
@@jeffostroff why would you tile mix two different moisture and cure rates together? That's just asking for problems I'm sure the mixtures aren't absolutely mixed the same.
That's what you get for pre filling the "dee-tra" . Schluter does not recommend this....
Schluter instructions say you can do it either way. Point to me exactly where Schluter says not to do it. It makes perfect sense because you have a nice dry surface to work on when you lay your tiles.
@@jeffostroff true story. More than one way to skin the cat. The product served to uncouple and as long as it’s in proper, laying tile over right away or anywhere in the future is proper. I see how many believe to install tile while key layer to utilize the dovetail without any separation but to me it doesn’t make a difference really.
Nice work, but hardly a fail….
Sort of a fail, it still cost us a couple of hours to get back on track
awesome tiling
Thanks Shape!
Those are some pretty cool tile spacers! Where can I buy some?
Here is where you get the spacers and wedges:
✅ Raimondi Tile Leveling System Starter Kit: amzn.to/2CAyweW
✅ Raimondi Tile Leveling Clip 1/8" joint: amzn.to/2RhbodI
✅ Raimondi LS250WEDGE 250-Piece Tile Leveling System Wedges: amzn.to/2Sopebl
Thank you very much for the links :)
Does anyone know the tolerances for a unleveled concrete floor using the same products? Like maybe if it's 1/8th of an inch higher, the Ditra will level it for you. Please and thank you
DITRA will not level a floor for you. You should never rely on an underlayment to level the floor. According to the TCNA standards that I use, floor requirements are subfloor must be level no more than 1/8" over 6 feet, and 1/4" over 10 feet. If not, grind down high spots and pour self leveler when needed. Now, since we use a bit of mortar under DITRA anyway, it could smooth things out a bit, and you could also further rely on mortar thinset thickness under your tiles, but they warn you not to try to use the mortar to act as a leveler, it's often a fools errand. But I have done it up to 1/8". Let's say like normal, I use 12 x 24 tile. I need a 1/2" thick trowel, so the mortar reduces down to 1/4" thick when you set tiles on it. As long as any of your bumps underneath it stay within that 1/4" thick trowel coat, you'll be ok.
@@jeffostroff Thank you. I could not find this information on personal experience you gave me
@@FromThe3PointLine use self leveling products. You welcome
So where is the failure that we WON'T believe??? You talking about the dog walking on the matt? OMG be serious. Here let me help...WOLF! WOLF! WOLF! Drama Queen.
One of my rare sort of clickbait videos just thought it was kind of an amusing failure mode to have.
Is that baseboard tile not bullnose? How do you handle the exposed edge? Caulk to transition it? I'm torn between that and wood baseboard. I have 3/8" porcelain tile.
Yes sometimes with porcelain tiles you have a nice colored edge but sometimes I will still use the silicone to transition the edge to the wall and sometimes you have to do that anyway to covered the part number that the manufacturer Prince on the edge of the tile which stinks and then of course sometimes if you have to make a cot on the tile then you're left with a cut edge which needs to be covered with silicone. Another good method ideas before is using pencil tiles along atop they're really thin tiles that are rounded that look like pencil shaped and those make a great transition as well I do that a lot on back splashes around Sink vanities
Excellent work. What kind of working time do you get out of all set before it dries up too much? We used to use the bostik ditraset for schluter installs however, it has been discontinued by our supplier
I tend to mix half bag at a time to avoid setting up issues, I prefer it to working with a huge bucket. I get about 3 hours out of a bucket. If I have a helper, we'll split the 50 lb mortar bag into 2 buckets, he'll back butter tiles with one bucket while I trowel mortar on floor or wall, then he hands me a tile ready for setting.
You did the install incorrectly.
Let be honest, no really didn't expect them to keep the dog in the cage.
I should have leaned the door against the opening
Ditra is not a waterproofing membrane. Kerdi is
Detroit still acts as a waterproof membrane, LOL Maybe you could show us how water gets past of the Ditra
Didn't even watch the whole video but I can tell you your not supposed to float the ditra before tiling...
You are wrong, you can float the DITRA before tiling. If you going to come here and make such a statement you need to back it up with a link directly to Schluter's instructions specifically stating you can't do it. Did you go through the DITRA training and are certified to make that claim and back it up?
@@jeffostroff Hi Jeff, what is the purpose of floating it first and letting it set before tiling? Is it necessary or can I just tile straight onto the ditra? Cheers
@@mazzazza - as a super pro tile setter I always float my ditra after install. I just find it easier and quicker to install the tile with better end results. Small area like this bathroom would be complete in one day. I also use a screeding / shower pan mix to fill the ditra. Cheaper then thinset.
@@grizzly8859 how do you float then set tile the same day? Do you allow a little time to dry inside waffles or just put a sheet of ply down to stand and kneel on. Thanks for the tips.
@@torkdork69 rapid setting shower pan mix..
So how exactly is this a fail? Maybe a minor setback, but fail? Really?
Cost about 3 hours of scraping and repair. That's a fail
That was a set back not a failure.
Every failure is a setback, but not every setback is a failure
what failure did you have, you vid does not clearly say
The failure was the tenant's dog walking on the thinset before it dried, so we lost an hour of work the next day trying to repair it.
Click bait
Hey, Scotty Kilmer does it all the time, I can do it once
You are right. I’m not one of those opinionated negative Nancy’s but that’s why I stopped watching Scotty. Otherwise, I enjoy your content. Best of luck.
@@lawrencekhoury9616 I Had originally planned it for April fools day release but with a Corona virus thing starting up at that time I decided I would get it out of the way beforehand before things really got serious
The product wasn't a failure. Lame trying to get someone to watch your video.
You don’t have full coverage in distraction, too many orange voids showing through. You need to spread first coat in all four directions to fill the keystone voids in ditra
The coverage came when we trowel in the mortar for the tiles, there was more than adequate and we used a 1/2" trowel
How did it fail? The dog? Lol
The Schluter dog did it
👍😀
You should get some knee pads. Nice work.
I try to minimize my time on my knees, sometimes I use my large rectangular Kobalt knee pad, sometimes I use my high end wood floor recycled tire underpayment to absorb weight under my knees. I can't stand knee pads.
CLICK BAIT - Not a failure of Schluter Ditra! (Just the customers dog walking in the wet mortar! 01:42) Sheesh ... anything to get more views.
Holy moly, what a scammy title. This isn't Ditra Failure, it's a installer failure for not securing the area after you left.
You're also completely defeating the purpose of the ditra by filling it all in with thinset before you install your tile. Now the tile doesn't have anything to adhere to.
Looking forward to the real failure videos after these tiles start to come loose from all of the jobs you've done this way.
I was told by the tenant that he would have the dog locked in a room downstairs that he would not go upstairs, and said don't bother putting the door there. It's your fault for being holier than thou. You are wrong about DITRA they tell you that you can do it either way. The tile adheres to the thinset mortar not the DITRA. So your logic is way off. You should call Schluter and talk to them.
I don't like dogs. But I really cannot stand irresponsible dog owners.
Well the dog wasn't going to be caged all day.. Close the door.
Door as off the hinges. Tenant told me don't bother rehinging it, I'll keep the dog downstairs
How com you did not fixed walls before installing membrane ?I hope you guys used silicone between floor and baseboard not grout .please do better job next time
Walls were fine in the area where we installed the DITRA. This video was not a full installation video, if you see the other video, you will know we used silicone, so your call telling us to do a better job next time is unfounded. Stick to what you know.
Caught you by surprise because you dont know what you are doing.
Misleading, wasted my time!
Misleading in what way? I showed a disaster that took a couple of hours to clear out of the way before we could continue tiling. If you felt your time was wasted that would be your fault for not clicking away immediately if you revolution didn't think the video was living up to its promise. I'm not sure what exactly it was you were expecting there was a failure and I showed the failure and I showed the recovery from the failure.
You did show a set back, hardly a disaster though and to say that the product itself had failed was far from the truth. I stuck with it waiting to see how the product failed but alas I was fooled. That is why I said it was misleading!!!
Aside from the fact that Id never ever use this ditra, I would have also walked off the job after seeing the customer pull a stunt like this. I would have been totally done at that point.
For me it made an interesting video, as well as how to get out of these types of things that happen on job sites all the time.
@@jeffostroff You have a lot more patients than I do.
You have no idea what you are doing and should take this video DOWN. You are misleading people.
Before I watch let me guess the failure. HAND MAN INSTAL. Ha ha. If you don’t want issues call a professional. Wow I just watched and watched the old vid. You can clearly see the dog tracks as he is tilting. A pro definitely would have caught that.
The tenant was supposed to lock his dog up overnight in the patio. Even told us not to replace the bathroom door on the hinges, don't worry about it I'll guarantee she won't get out, we'll keep her locked up all night. No matter, it doesn't even matter if the dog tracks are there when you lay the tile, because when you trowel on the thin set in fills in all the dog's paw craters.
Change the title. it did not fail. Thumbs down
It was a "fail", but not on the DITRA part.
Dude, at least learn how to pronounce the name of the product before you do a review.
Deeetra
More of a dog fail video, not a Ditra failure
Ditra Dog! Our new mascot! Brilliant!
@@jeffostroff Get those shirts made!
Clickbait :(
Oh, OK... so the dog really never stepped on the wet ditra and ruin the mortar? I didn't really spend a couple of hours scraping down the hardened mortar and have to re-apply it? Sounds more like your comment is click bait
@@jeffostroff Thats not the point. You made it sound that this specific product itself failed for a misterious unbelivable cause. Whereas in reality it had nothing to do with the uncoupling membrane itself... Are you trolling or you just provoking me to increase monetization by writing comments under the video?
Click bait
Scotty Kilmer is the king of click bait!
@@jeffostroff That's where you learned it 😂.