Schluter®-DITRA Over Wood in a Bathroom (Part 1) - by Home Repair Tutor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2016
- Cracked bathroom tiles and grout stink...REAL BAD!!
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One of the best ways to prevent this from happening is to install DITRA underlayment over your bathroom wood subfloor. Look, you might be thinking about using cement board but I'm hear to say think TWICE...just saying.
Primarily because cement board is heavy, adds height to your tile installation, and needs to be waterproofed. I've used it before and totally understand where you're coming from...it's cheap.
But that doesn't make it the best choice.
DITRA has been out for a long time and most professionals use it because it will prevent tile from cracking, it will be easier to install, and it will lessen the height between your tile adjacent flooring.
PLUS you can make your entire tile floor waterproof if you install DITRA the right way.
Today's video is a Part 1 of 2 and shows you how to install DITRA on a wood subfloor. Follow our directions but don't skip reading the DITRA instruction sheet that comes with your roll.
You'll also want to get DITRA and KERDI trowels. Find them on Amazon or your local tile store.
Part 2 of this video can be found here
• Schluter®-DITRA Over W...
If you have a question ask it down in the comments, we'd be happy to help
By the way, if you're looking for how to install Schluter KERDI-BOARD we made these two videos
How to Install Schluter KERDI-BOARD Part 1
• How to Install Schlute...
How to Install Schluter KERDI-BOARD Part 2
• How to Install Schlute...
For supplies and tools used in this video, please consider these links to our store and affiliate links:
1. Schluter Ditra (54 sft roll) - amzn.to/2iTQVZP
2. Schluter Ditra (150 sqft roll) - amzn.to/2Bqi5zo
3. Kerdi-fix sealant - amzn.to/2iUqDqr
4. Kerdi Band (for seam) - amzn.to/2hWlsWc
5. Ditra Trowel (to embed ditra) - amzn.to/2hTb4OP
6. Kerdi Trowel (to embed kerdi) - amzn.to/2zpHNCD
7. 12" grout float - amzn.to/2BqkLNs
9. Milwaukee Angle grinder - amzn.to/2iSa4vc
10. Dewalt diamond blade - amzn.to/2Bofp54
11. Bosch hole saw (1 3/8") - amzn.to/2zs1NV9 - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Awesome job installing Schluter. The only suggestion I have is never push the nail back in. Take the nail out and apply wood screw ensuring that nail won't pop back up and put a hole in Ditra. Great job man!
Thank you, most thorough tutorial I have found. I have been searching videos for weeks trying to get a detailed tutorial. Great job.
Buy their repair tutor videos, $99 it’s worth a $1,000,000
Good video. I actually just finished a Ditra membrane installation today after watching this video in the morning. It worked perfectly!! Thanks.
Thank you very much for the explanation of why you chose to use the Ditra membrane. I have been vacillating over which route to take because my subflooring is 3/4" plywood, 16" OC. Your sound reasoning has convinced me to go this route. I am about to tile our dining room, kitchen, and master bathroom floors using 12"x24" porcelain and it makes perfect sense to use a waterproofing membrane. I will need to use a self leveling product in a spot or two, but I'm definitely going the Ditra route - appreciate it!
I wouldn't take the chance with 24" tile with only 3/4" subfloor. Code requires a min of 1 1/8" thick subfloor because of deflection. Ditra doesn't add any strength just deals with expansion and contraction.
Great video! Thanks a lot for posting you guys, I’m doin this step tonight!
sweet, let us know if you have any questions
Thanks, dude! This video and part 2 really help me use the Schluter system in my bathroom remodel... the use of the kerdi band around the bathtub was indispensable!
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I somehow lost my password. I love any tips you can offer me
@Dakari Gregory Instablaster =)
@Killian Kairo i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and im waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
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Thanks so much, you saved my ass!
@Dakari Gregory you are welcome =)
The most important thing for professional installers is do the job fast and move on to the next job. They use this type of product for one reason only - it's fast and easy to apply. Cement board is more durable and less likely to flex with the sub-floor, but cement board is heavy and takes two to three times longer to install. Over time Ditra will break its bond with the sub-floor.
There's a separation layer to allow for movement that cement board does not. Prevents tiles from cracking. Especially when installing over concrete floor (which will crack and transfer crack to tile)
How the hell does it loose bond you need to try tearing some off once .. ditra has been around since 1975 if it was so bad I think ditra would have died
Great video ! I'm getting ready to do my first tile floor in a whole bathroom remodel. This was a great video very good info. Any other tricks to install the detra that wasn't shown in the video
Thanks Jeff and Steve. These videos a terrific. Really helping me out with my bathroom project that I am just starting!
thanks, got your email, too. Hope you're still getting our tips in your inbox. What all are you doing this week?
Have to have a drain moved from existing bath/shower combo to a shower and soaker tub so met with a plumber friend to discuss options. Will start demo this weekend.
Hi mate. Awesome video. If I have wooden floorboards, do I need to apply 5mm ply Screwed down before putting the Ditra matting?
thanks for the video. couldn't tell if you left the 1/4 expansion gap when you installed but the second video shows it clearly.
Yes, that expansion gap is very important. Thanks for asking
great video! most helpful
Hi. Thanks for the video. You answered in a previous question that this technique and product can be used on linoleum. Do you still use unmodified thinset?
Good video, I am doing my basement bathroom. I am planning to have dmx on concrete floor then 5/8 osb on top dmx underlayment to make the subfloor. Here I have 2 questions:
1. Do I need to use self-leveller on concrete first or over the OSB?
2. Can I just put the tiles over osb not using the This Ditra?
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks, just what I needed.
Shutler all set works great
still useful. thank you
Would applying a thin coat of PVA to your ply surface first, be helpful or detrimental to the ditra installment?
informative! Thanks.
My tile guy did 4 apartments for me 8 years ago with this and I've used it ever since. I've never had to go back and fix cracked tiles or grout. The floor was 16" centers, 16' span, 1/2" plywood with 3/4 mdf. I pulled up the 40 year old mdf and put down 3/4 plywood so my floor was 1.25" thick when he put the tile down. Other floors were just 3/4 plywood. Detra has always worked
I am about to tile my bathroom floors which are only 3/4" plywood over 16" spaced joists. Problem is that plywood has glue on it from previous vinyl. The glue is difficult to remove. (I had to remove the vinyl due to some repairs that needed to be made due to a leaking toilet.) Would it be advantageous to screw down another piece of floor to put the ditra down on or will the modified thinset stick to that 3/4" plywood in spite of the remnants of glue?
Is this something that can be directly installed on subfloor or do i need to add a 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch particle board/ply wood on the subfloor bathroom?
Thank you for a great video tutorial. Would you mind clarifying something for me please? The thinset recomend by the manufacturer to bond the membrane is modified or unmodified? Thank you so much. And please keep making more great videos.
Schluter recommends modified when setting Ditra over wood subfloors but you can use their ALL-SET both under and on top of Ditra and Ditra-Heat. Mix thin-set per their directions to get the right consistency, ensure 95-100% coverage to the fleece. Also, use the correct trowel and directional troweling to compress all the ridges.
Home Repair Tuto
From their FAQ : "The thin-set mortar used for bonding KERDI must be appropriate for the substrate, and it must penetrate and engage the KERDI fleece. Generally, Schluter-SET, Schluter-ALL-SET, Schluter-FAST-SET, or UNMODIFIED thin-set mortar is used."
But from this video (th-cam.com/video/wMzXu1NRMAM/w-d-xo.html), and from the installation instructions on the website it shows modified thinset below the membrane, unmodified above the membrane (below the tile) sccpublic.s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/sys-master/images/h7a/h5d/9019679637534/Uncoupling%20Data%20Sheet.pdf
@Joe Dirté use the DITRA trowel for bonding DITRA and the other trowel depends on your tile size, which is?
You must have ball bearings for knees
Waterproofed with "Redgard" or "Aquadefense" Done! But years ago when Isolation paint hasn't be created yet ...everything I did remains greatly till now🤔
Clarifying question, because the terms subfloor is often misinterpreted. I have a 23/32 subfloor screwed directly to the floor joists. Will I be able to lay mortar, then Ditra, mortar, then tile directly onto my 23/32 subfloor or do I need an additional layer of plywood?
I flattened my wood subfloor. It wasn't much so I used thinset to build it up. My question now is do I still use modified thinset to install my ditra to the subfloor?
I always got full cover very easy when I apply underlayment sealer over the plywood before thin set and Ditra, let me know is it the right way doing it or not but seem working fine, no call back.
Its great stuff. And if you tear out a shower and theres nothing behind it (which there normslly isn't ) you can run that go board unstead oh hardy board. Love thst stuff too. Even though it eill eat you up if not careful.
Is it a no go to apply the thin set onto a painted substrate? I had a small mold issue and put a coat of a special mold control paint where I had cleaned it up
Home Repair Tutor im doing my bathroom soon and im useing small tiles that are 3x3 inches do you have any videos for that kind of insulation
I am doing my cabin bathroom with in floor heating and I have the Schluter Ditra mats (2x2). I noticed the mat you put down doesn't have the little "nubs" for the wiring to attach to, is this a different style for in floor heat set up? I do really like the way you described everything to be done and the voice over helped as well. Great video guys.
I am getting ready to tile my upstairs bath. The flooring is 2x6 tongue and groove. It previously had mortar and wire mesh. All has been removed and I have been told to put a layer of 1/4 hardy over thin set. I'm not sure I shouldn't put plywood instead. Most videos do not reference 2x6 subfloors.
Thank you great vid
Good vid, but I think it is wise to protect the tub, also 1/4 wood strip would help also with liteweigt cardboard.. keeps any accidents at bay. , just a suggestion. Can you use a roller on top to help it embed better?
With the ditra, thinset and tile what’s the final thickness you achieve ? Trying to match thickness or 3/4 engineer flooring with no transition piece
on wood plywood, wow. this is good because I already know how to install it on other kinds of plywood.
Thanks for this
Thanks for the video, do I have to screw the ditra for more fastening?
if the subfloor is tong and grove 3/4" material will this require any different prep say for nots or cracks in the subfloor its self
Would you recommend removing the primer overspray from the subfloor before applying the thin set?
So after I finish prepping the floor with all the steps shown in the video, what mortar would I use to put bigger porcelain tiles on the floor? Modified or unmodified?
Another great video! Steve, knee pads Steve!!! :)
lol, funny thing is we had them but didn't use em
Hi p
Also, recommend dampening the felt later underneath the Ditra before laying. This will help it bond to the thinset
It definitely won't.
The only reason you wet the substrate is to keep it from prematurely pulling moisture from the thinset. Wetting the plastic "fleece" isn't going to do anything except take extra time and labor.
Hi. I used leveler over my plywood. After walking on it, there is a hairline crack over the plywood seams. Is it still okay to install ditra or strata_mat? thanks.
Can you use ardex x77 for under the ditra? And also over ditra or is ardex fb 9L better for over? Went to the tile shop and the owner got me al confused
Quick question: If you have to leave a 1/4" gap from the wall to allow for expansion and contraction, why are the seams butted against each other? Why is there no gap for expansion and contraction between sheets?
Uncoupling is your answer ..the Gap is for tile more than anything else
I wonder if the direction of the Ditra matters in a bathroom? Is it better to lay it with the joints in certain direction?
my house is old but well built. The floors are tongue and groove 2X6's. What type of underlayment does a tile floor need? Cement board? Plywood and Cement board?
Hey guys, thanks for the very informative video! I have removed existing tile/backer down to bare plywood. The floor is for a small kitchen in an older apartment building. I need to level the floor out but once I have my self-leveler down can I bond the Ditra directly on top of the self-leveler? Thanks in advance.
You should be fine as long as the self-leveler is complete dry. Use Schluter's ALL-SET to bond the DITRA to the leveler and follow the mixing directions to a 'T'. They have different water requirements for the DITRA.
Hi, may i ask please what powder glue you have used for fixing ditra. thanks
What kind of thinset do you recommend to use to lay Ditra on? What is better Redguard or Ditra?
I have another bathroom that has an old plank subfloor, can you just thinset over it and use this or is it best to use something else?
If you use self leveling on your subfloor will this bond to it?
Your videos are great. Your partner does a great job as well. A lot of DIYers would likely be remodeling. Can the product be installed over a sheet vinyl floor that was glued down and is still in good shape.
Ed
thank you, DITRA can be installed over sheet vinyl but it might better to rip it out and make sure you subfloor is in good shape, especially if your floor isn't level...but again, Schluter does have directions for that kind of installation
Excuse me while i use my old school tar paper , lath , expanded (or chicken wire), dry pack cement , common & lime, , float & set , while your babysitting your product , with all your just in caser's
Hey Jeff! I'm looking to tile over my stained epoxied concrete floor. Is Ditra a suitable item for this type of project?
hmm, that's s good question. If recommend calling Schluter and asking their technical department this question...bet they'll have a good answer
Would this installation method work of an oriented strandboard subfloor as well as the plywood?
What if I'm applying that to Wood slatted 3/4 inch subfloor or does it need some sort of Luan down 1st
Hopefully you've already figured out that yes, you do. I put down 1/2" to beef up the substrate and allow that to be the sacrificial layer for when the next homeowner wants to remodel, and the house's sub-floor can be left alone, integral and not chawed by mortar that either won't come up, or takes chunks with it.
Hi great video. I have a bathroom that is half plywood and the other half is self leveling mix. What type of thinset do you prefer to apply to both sub floors?
Use modified
I have 3/4 subfloor on 16 on center joists. The 2x10 joists have valleys and crowns that cause the subfloor to hump and valley. My plan is to put sand down the high points first. Then apply a 1/2 overlayment layer of plywood to stiffen the subfloor for large format tile. What should I use to flatten the subfloor before I install the Schluter Ditra? Can I use a thin set morter and scree it flat or should I use a self leveling compound on top?
You could use a self-leveler to help with the peaks and valleys, Ardex makes a good one. You're correct to get a level floor before the DITRA
Two questions:
I have screw holes in my plywood from old particleboard that was installed over my subfloor should I fill those holes with wood filler/kwikwood or something before I put the thinset on?
I also have some places where the plywood is chipped and dented, how should I level it?
When do you use the Kerdi versus Ditra? Also, for either do you use the kerdi band at all seams and against the wall?
If I am removing my linoleum and laying this over the wood sub floor, do I need to remove ALL of the old glue used to install the original linoleum? Or is there an “acceptable percentage?”
You could try a belt sander to remove as much as possible but the risk is creating low spots in the wood. Another option is to lay down 1/4" plywood or another wood veneer layer to cover the glue. A third (of many possible) options is do what I do: experiment. Over the years I've learned a lot by trying things, and taking note of what works. The risk of leaving a bit of old glue seems like a small risk. The label of the product would warn about it, and you can read the label by looking up the product on Amazon and hovering the computer mouse over the container label.
Can you use Schluter®-DITRA over a hydronic floor system that includes 1/2" wood system, (Viega) with pex tubing grooves?
Thanks for the video. Can the Ditra be laid straight onto 5 inch floor boards or would you recommend putting sheet plywood down first? The boards are 1 inch thick and laid on 16 inch centre joists.
I dont want too much of a raised bathroom floor at the door threshold so if I can get away without using ply then so much the better. Cheers
Did you u ever find out?
Needs to have 1/2” plywood or osb added to the top of floor boards
HI ✋️is there a multi purpose adhesive for sticking down decoupling waterpoof membrane and also using stick down tiles onto😢 membrane? Using the same adhesive?
Can this be used over plywood subfloor in a kitchen prior to file instalation?
DYI here. Completely redoing our 8x8 (not exact) hall bathroom. walls are dwn to the studs and just redid the plumbing to accommodate the new layout. New subfloor is 3/4" Advantech. It is not perfectly level (not terrible) and some joints are 1/8" higher/lower. Using 1/4" Ditra (16" off center joist). to accommodate the transition height. My question is. Does the subfloor need to be perfectly level and do the joint heights need to meet perfectly? Thank you. Great videos.
as long as the subfloor is flat and mostly level you should be fine. Under the tub or shower tray it needs to be level so the water will drain properly. You want the DITRA joints to meet evenly with each other. Otherwise the tile setting will be problematic
@@HomeRepairTutor ..Thank you for your time.
Can this system be used in a repair project where the rest of the floor does not use DITRA?
Great videos. Thanks. Question about perimeter gaps. By the time the Kerdi Band is installed on wall to floor transitions, isn’t the perimeter gap pretty much filled with thinset? I noticed the same method you apply on Schluter’s videos too. Is there a concern about result being basically no perimeter gap exists anymore? Thanks for your thoughts on this.
+Sam Azzouni you're correct, leave a gap between DITRA and the wall. Schluter recommends adding a foam backer in that gap then cutting it back. Then you can flash the wall with KERDI-BAND
Could you elaborate more on the foam backer for the gap? I watched the Schluter Ditra install video, but don't recall seeing that info.
Can I use this product over finished wood floor, in front of the fireplace , and then tiling over ???
Schluter’s Handbook has several installation methods but none for traditional hardwood flooring.
Hi can I use Schluter Ditra under octagon ceramic mosaic tile
SO EXPENSIVE to use this stuff. But it is very nice.
Use unmodified thin-set mortar meeting the requirements of ANSI A118 for bonding to plywood.
Should I use OSB or CDX plywood for my sub floor under my kerdi shower LS?
Hey Jim, CDX but that's just my opinion
Should you install the membrane over a wood subfloor partially covered with linoleum adhesive and backing?
Can I use Mapei uncoupling membrane mortar under the Ditra?
HELP! I am using all Schluter for the first time. I am planning on using Ditra on the bathroom floor, but can't find info on small imperfections to plywood. When I pulled up the old tile, there are a few sections where the surface wood splintered and its plywood, so there are general surface imperfections. Other than that the floor is solid 3/4 plywood. Will thinset be enough to fill these imperfections for Ditra?
Can I use this product on the entire second floor? Or it is not recommended. About 1500square FT.. Really on the fence.
+Dj Fire Touch you can use DITRA on wood subfloors as long as you follow the directions. If the second floor will be tile it's a great option
Great video. My question is, do I need to lay ditra down if I'm laying tile in a kitchen that has a wood subfloor? Thanks for the great video.
Erik
That would be very wise!
It's one of those things...it's kind of like insurance to prevent the new expensive floor from mechanically failing. However...in my first 2006 new-construction house that was built with crappy NJ builder grade short cuts, all the tile was installed rather quickly over a secondary plywood substrate floor. In the 13 years we were there, the tile never failed, despite being Home Depot grade tile and installed rather hastily. We sold the place before doing any flooring upgrades, but there was nothing technically failing on those tile floors.
Likewise my parents now have a 30 year old tile kitchen floor over the original 70s linoleum...and it too has no mechanical failures.
This product in my limited opinion solves a problem which probably wasn't much of a problem to begin with, but it caught on as building science became more of a thing and marketing for the sake of selling everything went onto an exponential curve. It just allows bad tilers to work even faster and mask shoddy work, although it does allow for use of bigger tiles with an almost guaranteed chance of success. And when it's time for yet another floor, now you have about another 1-2 days worth of rip out and grinding involved.
Question: if I have a wood subfloor that is slightly out of level, should I put down a self leveling solution before adding thin-set for the Ditra??
What happens if
1. Ply delaminates
2. Adhesive doesn't stick to the ply?
And, he has put down 18mm ply? This is a big step up compared to 6mm NoMore Ply.
Very good
If I have 4 inch wide angled boards as sub floor do I need to put another layer of plywood before the ditra
To be honest if you have toilet overflow that membrane wont help that much you will see water downstairs.But protecting from tile cracks will work just perfectly
It’s only for subfloors if it’s a slab, pour south level to level your floor, then lay your tile with thin set
Would this work in a modern 1 year old mobile home with 2x8 joist 16 inch on center with 2 layers of 3/4 inch tongue and groove treated plywood subfloor?
Question, have you installed DITRA over a pine board subfloor, with gaps?
Question. If my subfloor is 5/8"thick can I put 1/4" laun board down over it for the tile job?
I've heard others say this as well, I've had a terrible time getting the mud to bond to the underside of the ditra. I ended up having to back butter the ditra to get a 100 bond. I first did everything by the directions and the first time I had near zero percent bond, it just pushed the thinset down into the shape of the individual cells of the membrane (ditra heat) I put the thinset down quick, and I put the maximum amount of water in the mix (according to the back). Not sure if the extra work is worth it vs how we did it for decades before.
That shouldn’t be the case, I highly recommend watching this video for more details on how to properly install DITRA th-cam.com/video/VQbEcXBnMoU/w-d-xo.html
What if you want to install porcelain tile into connecting rooms. Their is 3/4 plywood in first room and tongue &groove oak in second room. Both are flush.
Hi, the ditra install manual says the plywood can be 19/32 minimum thickness. You say 3/4 in the video. If you have 19/32 sub floor would you recommend putting ditra over it?
19/32" is about 5/8" and that is too thin for a subfloor. Even if you're not putting tile down, the 'give' of that thin plywood over time would be noticeable.
Right now I'm redoing a bathroom floor that has 5/8" (aka 19/32") plywood subfloor. The 'give' in that thickness of plywood ended up, over the years, creating so many cracks in the tile, it was incredible.
I am laying down another 3/8" layer of plywood on top of the existing 5/8" subfloor. There will be a minor transition step-up into the bathroom after the finish flooring material (glue-down vinyl planks) is installed but I'm okay with that. Another option was to lay down a 1/4" plywood 2nd layer and have no transition, but the 'give' in that 5/8" subloor floor was enough to make me want to beef it up using the 3/8" instead of the 1/4".
The 'give' in any flooring makes it feel real cheap.
What brand thinset did y'all use for the ditra to the plywood I know you said modified but what brand was it.
+Alberto Lira we used Mapei's Kerabond with Keralastic instead of water. But we recommend using Schluter ALL-SET with DITRA
@@HomeRepairTutor what do you recommend for bonding the tile to the ditra? Thanks!
*******Question*******
I bought a roll to redo my guest bathroom and have a ton left over. Could I use this as underlayment for my kitchen floor laminate wood flooring??
So you use modified underneath and on top for the tiles ?
I have been told by Home Depot to use unmodified and by Lowe’s ? Why ?
It will help keep the Schluter warranty intact. Unmodified doesn’t need air to cure, hence its good between Tile and DITRA
Can this be put over existing vinyl before putting a floating floor?
According to the installation instructions use ANSI A118.11 modified thin-set over plywood
All-Set or Fast-Set is good
How do I tile over a raised foundation floor?
I am laying down 24x24 italian porcelain tile. The mortar for this is for heavier tiles, can I use the same mortar for tile to unite the ditre to the 3/4 plywood?
If your subfloor is not level should I get it level first before installing the Schluter?
What if you install Toilet flange on top of is that acceptable ? Or maintain same 1/4 setback?
We'd recommend tiling the floor over the DITRA then adding the closet flange to the stack. That way the flange will sit on the tile and be 1/4" above the finished floor.
I will be installing tile floor in a 1926 home with diagonal laid 1 x 6 boards for the sub floor. Can I use Ditra in this installation without anything additional to the subfloor?
Good question, Ditra’s handbook covers that. I believe they recommend 3/4” plywood over the existing boards. Then you apply Ditra using modified thin-set mortar or Schluter All-Set
John I’m in a 1925 home with the same plank subfloor. You need to place plywood or OSB over the planks before using Ditra. The Ditra instructions clearly show this example in the illustrations. You can find it one their website.