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Battle of the Brands: MoFi, Wharfedale, and KEF Speaker Showdown
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2024
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Man your quote is gold:
"We get stuck into this trick of thinking that the measurements don't tell the whole story; generally it's because you don't have all the measurements. So I'm going to try and provide you with enough measurements to tell a better story."
Pure gold.
Erin, I'm old enough and unscared enough to say this, and I certainly have been in your position on the pro audio side. Your reviews are absolutely great. You are completely honest, and you have a rare great ear. The longer you do this the more you are going to be tempted. Everything you want will just sort of "come your way" (conventions are dangerous) Stay on the path. Honesty itself is having a resurgence, you will surf that wave. Stay on the path.
I know what you mean. The data will always be my “accountability” tool and integrity cannot be regained once lost. I do everything I can to remain transparent … sometimes to a fault. 😂😂
@@ErinsAudioCorner Hi Erin. Great explanations and alerts for future buyers, listeners of the spekers. But in the subjective category I do miss some reflection thoughts - words about the natural sound of voices and instruments. Many speakers are let's say good these days, but when I listen to some, even when measured good, it is not necessary that they have a natural tone, timbre presentation of voices and instruments. For me HI-FI is high fidelity to the natural sound of voices and instruments and it's presentation. Best regards, Maj
the more in-depth subjective takes would be in the individual reviews. I try to keep this one as manageably long as I could so something naturally get left out.
That said, the differences I noted are the main areas that matter. Mid range, and all of these is pretty much on par. It’s generally the upper mid range (>1k) and high frequency that are the main differences.
@@majtextwriter1794
It just that the set of measure and parameters review of these speakers ar not complete, just an response curve of the speaker won't tell you all, about these but this can say many things
@@ErinsAudioCorner just checking on the mystery comment
This comparison video is the new gold standard. Explaining every graph and translating it to real world experience; and overlaying these data points is phenomenal work.
Not only is this a great comparison but it's also a clear tutorial of how to read and understand measurements. Thanks so much for this.
Thanks for the kind words!
One of the big factors for me is the physical size of the speakers. The Kef R3 Metas are significantly smaller than the Wharfedles, and somewhat smaller than the MoFis, so that’s what I bought. I love them dearly, and they work perfectly in my medium-sized room. Thanks Erin!
I think,
This is why many listner have bad speaker, the very best are big and start whith high performance 15" driver to cover 30hz-300hz crossover, an active crossover
You can have it at price that stay not so high
I will buy none of those speaker presented, even in small room
What speaker you talk about? @@julienfauvaux2055
@@roger_isakssonThey ain't small but wharfedale is pretty big.
I just watched this video again and really paid more attention to the hard work you’ve done and it’s much, much appreciated. I purchased the Wharfedale linton about a year and a half ago. I have several speakers like the gallo 3.1, monitor audio rs6 small towers. Qacoucstic towers,legacy signature 2 , and a few more but I always seem to comeback to the lintons. Using Parasound a21 or McIntosh mc 2100 they maintain a sound that can be addictive. So thanks for explaining what I maybe hearing.
Congratulations! Not only for the video comparison but mainly by how you teach and explain the impacts of the measurements results with the “real world experience” we should experience. What a lesson 👏
Man, I really appreciate your giving overall impressions at the beginning BEFORE the data. Thanks, thanks, and thanks again.
This is what I called devotion! You always wowed me. Thank you Erin for putting your unbelievable level of dedication to your work. Lots of love from the Big Apple👍🏼🙏🏼
This was a great video. I like audio but I can’t really read any charts so this was very informative. Thank you! I am a proud Linton owner and while I like them a lot, it’s nice to know experts think highly of them too.
Excellent video. Very interesting to see your take on the trade-offs and compromises any speaker designer has to deal with.
Erin, this was an absolute slam dunk of a video. You managed to cover four speakers, tons of information in an extremely approachable way, and again very educational for anyone delving into the subject matter and trying to understand the measurements and better find a speaker suited to their taste. I'm not 100% sold on the measurements are the be all and all, but equating your measurements to what you heard and trying to bridge the gap between them and explanation was a very great help. An audience very focused on measurements seems to be the hardest to keep happy, and maybe the most critical when it comes to reviews, but I feel that you are literally putting your best foot forward and as far as reviewers go doing an impeccable job. Don't know if there's anybody else who really covers the detail of information in such an approachable way which is your gift. Honestly you did an amazing job here, tons of information, very approachable and just enjoyed it.
Man, I appreciate that!
The Lintons are half the cost of other options with stands…and don’t appear to be outclassed…so looks like the easy value winner
Except the SourcePoint 8 is now at $2199. Ugh decisions.
@@travroy😂
I hear you.😂
I really like this comparison video! It helped crystalize some the considerations when choosing candidate speakers based on the data-in my brain at least. I hope to see more of these comparisons from time to time!
Thanks Erin! My Kef Reference 1 Meta has been my killer purchase last year.
I’m jelly. That’s a killer speaker.
Excellent review, really appreciate how you’ve tied your measurements to in room performance.
I particularly enjoyed the questions towards the end. It helps with summing up the video and encouraging questioning/understanding one's needs. It helps link the information offered with the actual needs of each.
Great video and thank you again
Thanks for watching!
Outstanding work, Erin. I always learn from your videos, regardless of whether I'm in the market for speakers.
Those frequency dispersion / radiation charts are simply amazing, thank you for this great work. I love the sound of the Sourcepoint 8 and 10, and now you've made me want to hear the (cheaper) Lintons!
Linton is amazing. I have enjoyed them for 6 months. Those speakers will stay until I have a new house with dedicated listening room🎉🎉
you way of explaining and relating in real terms is evolving nicely. it makes it easier to understand the graphs hopfully saving someone a bad purchase.
What an excellent comparison review! Many thanks for your effort. It makes you appreciate the possibilities of the Mofi. I hope, one day, you get to compare a similar set of larger speakers. Eg sourcept 10 vs Dovedale vs etc.
Great video. One that shows off that once you get good systems without glaring issues. The “best” speaker is one that works best for your environment and your listening preferences. I think your advice on those fronts was clear and concise.
Thanks for the feedback. :)
Super informative. Loved how you visually showed us their responses👏👏👏
I love these reviews, great job.
It's great to see nuance, tradeoffs and data.
Im learning to build/design speakers and these videos are helping alot to understand the positives and negatives of different desings.
One of the things that I noticed makes or breaks a speaker for me is spectral decay, id love to se that adressed (even if briefly) in your reviews.
Cheers
Informative as usual. Superb explanation. Thanks for the educative video(s), Erin.
I am totally here for good off axis performance. My pair of Celestion Ditton 551 don’t exactly offer what you’d call a holographic image, but standing in my kitchen doing dishes, I can still really enjoy them. They’re truly boundary defining. They aren’t perfect, but they’re perfect for me. Cheers for a great review.
I'm really impressed by these 4 speakers, any one of them should be a great candidate to try. Being a KEF fan I'm really shocked how well it did in the compression and distortion measurements considering its cabinet is so much smaller volume wise. Now, nobody said there was a limit to the size of a "bookshelf" type speaker so I would be really keen to see manufactures of coaxial speakers design something with higher output capabilities and bass response like that of the two Wharfedale's. Awesome work on this comparison, I really appreciate all that work and having this resource available is great for all of us!
Absolutely superb and useful review, Erin, that brings some really fabulous speakers together for a truly meaningful comparison, complete with solid correlative data. Kudos! 😊👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Looking forward to this comparison. I really don't know what to expect.
On the theme of subverting expectations, I recently got to demo the KEF Reference 1 Meta vs KEF R11 Meta in a listening room and was surprised that I preferred the smaller bookshelf to the larger tower -- yes I understand that the Reference line is more expensive than the R line, but I figured the sheer size difference would lead me to prefer the tower due to better bass response.
Nah. Reference all the way. Those bookshelves are the two that I’d consider in passive speakers in this day and age. Other one being Dynaudio Confidence.
Great efforts Erin. Thank you.
Great video. Very informative. Appreciate your transparency.
Just to repeat some comments. I've learnt so much in this one video abouy how to read these data and how will that manifest in the real world. Excellent video!
Excellent and concise review. I've been an audiophile for 55 years. Your point on what a person might prefer, specs not withstanding, is well taken. I'm leaning towards the Linton's because they're very forgiving on poor recordings and their sound is less fatiguing over the long listening hours. However, that being said, I've found that in the end of of all measurements the sound to the listener is subjective to his choice of audio preferences and types of music he listens to. The speaker to me is one of the most important chains in the audio system. I understand and appreciate your measurements because I was certified in electronics and appreciate your scientific approach. Thank you for your concise and accurate analysis.
Your content just keeps getting better 😃 I am here for it!
Thanks!
Thanks for the video and analysis. Engineering a speaker involves all kinds of trade-offs and you have done an excellent job explaining the trade-offs that were made for each speaker. I own the KEF R3 Meta and the imaging is spectacular. I experimented with toe-in until I got the imaging I wanted. Paired with a good sub, they are so much fun to listen to. With some types of material (particularly older, unremastered CDs), they can sound a bit "dull" (due to the response in the 1-3kHz region), but a bit of judiciously applied EQ goes a long way in addressing that. I also own the BMR Monitors. Their RAAL tweeters make for a much different experience, with lots of detail, no need for toe-in, and exceptional off-axis response, likely similar to the Aura II.
What software/hardware have you used for EQ? Thanks.
Man, where have you been? What a great job and what an interesting tool you have. This is a great comparison with explanations, really helps. Great work.
The review I have been waiting for.. best audio guy on the net. Regards from the UK
Incredible content. I’m learning so much from your reviews. You’re able to really help me understand some of these measurements that I haven’t really understood too much before.
The problem is, I need you to review ALL the speakers 🤣… I don’t trust what I’d be buying if I can’t see data for it and had you interpret it. I’ve had the Lintons the longest I’ve ever had a speaker. It’s good to see that the data shows them to be a good speaker.
Keep up the great work!
The Linton is a fantastic speaker.
I’ll admit, I used to skip measurement videos because I just wanted subjective sound opinions. This video has changed my mind. Well done!
Thank you! Welcome to the dark side … or rather … light side. 😬😂
Kefs are rly growing on me, but i can't seem to pick an amp but that will happen one day.
Thanks for everything Erin, you're the sole objective influencer in the audio space, giga kudos for that!!
They way you elaborate on and explain relationships between measurements and real wolrd qualities is soo important, basically the only thing that is actually helpfull in a speaker review 😂👍👍👍👍👍
I ended up with a hegel h190v after trying over 12 amps. It’s a bit spendy but the h120 was pretty good too and you can find open boxes for less than retails. The eversolo dmp-a8 sounds really good with kef if you can find an amp to go with it using the eversolo as a preamp and dac.
Wow, great video, Erin! I love this kind of video. Compare several speakers objectively and then correlate the objective data to the subjective data. Keep up the good work!!
Erin, I strongly agree with you the importance of sound radiation. I love how much I’ve learned from Toole’s book on directivity but sound radiation (assuming excellent directivity) causes such a big differences in speakers and I don’t really see it correlated that much or emphasized that much in other’s measurements.
Another good way for people to determine kinda what they might like is play with an EQ to see what effect it has on the sound.
That way you will be able to tell what Erin and others say when they say for example “ 1-3khz” a bit recessed sounds a bit further away and softer.
Great video Erin!
i am so happy i found your channel.
we need more objectivity and data in this industry.
industry only want your money
Excellent video with plenty to consider. Thank you!
Great video.. really good content. The best speaker comparison video I've ever seen. Thanks 👍
Wow, thanks!
Great stuff Erin. Wonderfully articulated. I got it! 😊
Great comparison. About the comment at 14:20, in my experience a small dip at 3kHz helps with most modern recordings, as they wouldn't sound as sharp or harsh.
Yeah. I think I might even need a grater dip. I have emit 20 and they sound somewhat veiled but and the same time so airy, clear and non fatiguing. But certainly some things are missing when listening to them
And I'm torn between precision and just pleasure from listening.
Amazing work and video ! Thank you !
Fantastic review. Those coaxials bring something to the table, that's for sure. I'd like to see more coaxial designs, especially 3 way with higher SPL capabilities.
You and me both!
Genelec 8351B?
spend the extra and go with reference 1 meta. If you want everything you have to pay for it! 😀
They tend to hurt dynamics with heat control a bit though. All things are a compromise. I have owned both types and made both work fine.
Thankfully they make them. KEF Tower speakers or as Erin calls them Flowers :)
Great comparison. A lot of speakers designed in the UK are intended to be closer to wall due to smaller room sizes.
Yes I'm surprised more marketed speakers here in UK 🇬🇧 arn't front ported
Thank you this comparative video is so helpful! For Home Theater or multichannel music I find the KEF R3 Meta outstanding since with a 9.4.6 speaker systems, I love to be surrounded by sound. Don’t do much stereo listening anymore except for my AirPod Pro 2!
Heck yeah! That would be dope! (cheap plug for myself, if you do get them please consider using my link below): howl.me/ck5H5EixFcY
In terms of HT I would agree, if you plan to build the HT in your living room. For a dedicated HT and the wish to be able of SPL=105db(c) at Reference-listening-seat, you should consider something more PA-Power Hifi like speaker. Could be a PA-Coax to DIY or something with high spl capable midwoofer and horn/waveguide loaded tweeter (dome or maybe even better compr. driver).
Great video! Would love to see a similar comparison between budget darling speakers :)
Excellent job on the comparison, especially the strengths and weaknesses of each design! Bad news for me: now I'm _really_ interested in hearing the MoFi SP 8s.* 😟
* ...because _of course_ they're the most expensive pair, lol!
I decided a while back concentric designs is the direction I want to go for my next speaker purchase. Fyne & Tannoy (SMG) are on my list as well. Great comparison and I’ve subscribed.
I think the Tannoy / Fyne Coax Speaker Design isn't as well engineered as Kef's or Genelec's. If you compare Tannoy/Fyne and Kef side by side, you may describe your results here? :)
@@corneliusheiden9857 I ended up with the SourcePoint 8's. With 25% off and 50% on the stands, reviews, and ESA Award, unheard, I ordered.
@@Scan_Speak great decision
I tried to give you 10 thumbs up, but ended up with one, unfortunately 😄
I found this a really helpfull insight in speaker capabilities and why a certain speaker doesn't always make sense. The comparison part is great!
Awesome, thank you!
Great video and comparison!
Great content. Educational, factual and honest. What more can one ask for?
Really like your reviewing style of analyzing and relating listening to the measurements. However some nutty audiophiles that just want to know what sounds the most realistic in the sweetest spot. You’ve got the sweet spots covered. I can accept compromised sound while doing the dishes but really like hearing Ella and Louis, and others, magically sonically appear in front of me. Speaker comparisons in this circumstance would be appreciated.
The comparison between the 4 speakers I would be very happy with any one of them!!!
Ditto!
Oh yeah, agreed! 😊
Again, Great Stuff Erin. Keep it up.
Thanks again!
Some wonderful insight.
Great comparison review!
Thanks!
a very valuable review. thank you.
My pleasure!
I too enjoy your work. I’m curious about where you would place the Arendal 1723 Monitor in this mix.
Just an absolutely perfect review of these 3 speakers. You have missed nothing. Hey honest side of the speaker industry! : Take note of this man!!! Here is a first rate consultant.
Four speakers?
Would love to see your analysis / thoughts on the CSS Criton 1TD or 1TDX.
Great video and I love the data! To be greedy it would be nice to see; unrolled phase response, what amplifier is used and speaker impedance curves with amplitude and phase. I am totally with you on the importance of making the right measurements but the trick is knowing what those are. Low power measurements are seldom done yet what the speaker is doing near noise levels may be important to our ears.
All the data you’ve requested is on my site for each speaker’s respective review. :)
2nd time watching this. Really exacting information, thanks.
This approach is so educational, even for us old hands.
You make the technicnical data into accessible explanations. So different than the “speaker of the month” or “year” approach.
Great video ! It's time to test the Epos ES14N. If you like the speakers in the video, you'll love the Epos.
Thanks!
Gran trabajo amigo, se nota tu profesionalidad en temas de audio. Como se que los qué mas te gustan son los Aura 2, me los voy a comprar para remplazar mis evo 4.3 😅. Whaferdale esta trabajando muy bien desde la serie evo. Un saludo desde España.
uhm he likes the Sourcepoint 8 the most
Incredible review Erin! You answered a lot of my questions regarding these speakers. Just one more, if I am using a subwoofer, how does that affect your subjective opinion of the speakers? Don’t know if you can answer that if you didn’t test using a subwoofer but I had to ask. Thanks
i think you new to speaker. subwoofer is room dependence and the stuffs inside the room. = how is sound. no right answer
it wouldn't change my overall result as much; just that the low frequency is better with a subwoofer.
Great explanation Erin!
Glad it was helpful!
每天都在期待您的新影片，謝謝您！
I highly appreciate you teaching at least me how to interpret the data 🤩 Thank you for this free webinar
Glad it was helpful!
your work is fantastic
I’d love to hear your review of the Spendor D7.2 speakers
Luckily I can hear three of these speakers at a nearby dealership the Wharfdales and Kef. Honestly all three sound great.
Great job, as usual 👍
I appreciate that.
Incredible review. All the aspect that are usually subjective are, in this review, backed by objective data. I haven’t seen this anywhere else (Ron from NRD does it a bit) but your equipment and analysis take it to another level.
Great review
Thanks!
Erin, if you had 2 midrange drivers placed side-by-side to each other in a speaker cabinet that were each 6 1/2 inches in diameter, how would the forward dispersion characteristics differ from just using one driver? Are there any sonic benefits or caveats? Thanks.
Nice! A lot note though, scales are easy to fool one so try to use 50dB as the standard for graphs. Some use 30dB to better show differences but 50 seems to be the more common one. 60 is making most good speakers' response look very similar :)
that was a "whoops" on my part.
I currently own the Lintons and I really love them. Do you think it's worth to consider an upgrade to the Mofi's? My girlfriend hates the Lintons formfactor. LOL
Thanks, excellent comparison. Suppose a sub was added to the KEF, how would you then rate its performance vs the others?
It would certainly improve the overall experience. But it’s still a bit tough because I like other aspects of the other speakers as well.
Which of those would benefit most from room correction like minidsp?
Great video as usual Erin.
Question, what are your thoughts around "super tweeters"? Might be an interesting video topic.
I personally don't know if I see a benefit unless it was part of the original design. "Add on" tweeters are almost always a bad idea.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks, I'll stick to just "super sizing" my fries 🍟
Hi Erin which speaker here is better for sounding impact and kick attack on kick drum? what we called punchy sound
Please review the Wharfedale Dovedale. What do you think?
Wow, great analysis! Personally I have both Lintons and Buchardt A10. Very different speakers. A10 more accurate, more extension on low (25hz) and hi frequency... But the Lintons have something that I don't think the data can show... it sounds more "paper" like. Rich mid tone that have nothing to do with low freq boost. For orchestra's strings it is fabulous. Solo violin never sound lean and aggressive. But the A10 are definitely better in other styles....
The radiation pattern is going to be very, very different. Horizontal is probably 20-30 degrees wider on the Linton.
The radiation pattern is going to be very, very different. Horizontal is probably 20-30 degrees wider on the Linton.
I have a suggestion for one more set of graphs: actual in-room response in your listening room. It won’t be as even as the estimated in-room response, of course, but since it will affect speakers differently, it would be another useful datapoint to compare your subjective impressions to.
I do from time to time.
In ever case so far the difference is below about 500/600Hz. Above this the EIR matches quite well until about 10kHz.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Yes, that’s where we would expect to see the biggest differences, and not necessarily differences which would be consistent among different speakers (though some trends are likely to be).
Good video. How does the placement of sounds in the stereo recording relate to the dispersion degrees ? If the producer places the bass to the left, how left? Then the speakers try to mimic?
hard panned stuff will be at the furthest points in the soundstage. if a speaker reaches 30 degrees wide then that hard panned sound will be 30 degrees. if the speaker goes to 60 degrees then the sound is 60 degrees out. more angle = wider.
Another high value video from Erin.
Thanks!
I got my KEF R11’s because of what I learned from you, about coaxials
What exactly was the deciding factor on those? The non metas? What about the coaxial specifically? I’m still learning so I am very curious
@@depthsofyourmind6070 mainly that they were 50 % and the design they have patented with their coaxials. It is the non meta. They are made to be placed close to the front wall and not have over blown bass. Very low distortion. Great workhorse speakers. I would keep my eyes open for deals - KEF often has them
Last month, I bought the SourcePoint 8s and the KEF R3 Metas. I'm not sure which I'll keep; I like them both. Thanks for this review. It might help me focus on certain things in order to make a decision. Two quibbles with the review, however.
1) The coaxial drivers plus the careful design of the baffles result in the KEFs and the Mo-Fis producing an amazingly expansive, wide soundstage. Many albums produce a wall-to-wall soundstage way outside the speakers. I've never heard normal box speakers with separate drivers image like this. It's magic. Any review of these speakers should get into that aspect. I'd love to know if there are measurements that correlate with that effect.
2) You advised us to toe out the speakers with coaxial drivers because they have a "more consistent radiation pattern." But later you said that coaxial drivers "may not be as wide in radiation horizontally." So which is it? If the radiation is not as wide, then they should definitely NOT be toed out. In my experience, both the KEFs and Mo-Fis benefit from toeing them in. I find that a good soundstage depends to some extent on not having too much reflection off the side walls. As long as the speakers aren't too bright when toed in, there is no harm in using toe in to your advantage.
1) I showed two speakers that have wider radiation that the two coaxials. It's quite common for KEF to be about 50 degrees. Many standard dome-tweeter based designs are 60/70 degrees.
2) ... continuing from the above, the examples I gave highlight what I was talking about. Coaxial (and horns) share similarity in that they have typically more *consistent* evenly horizontal dispersion compared to tweeters on a flat baffle where the latter starts to narrow in radiation above ~7-8kHz, while the waveguided designs (coaxials are waveguided via the midrange) typically hold their pattern until around 12-13kHz.
I don't envy your position choosing between the two. Both are great. The mofi is a tad wider. KEF doesn't quite have the bass output the mofi does. But it has its other advantages.
Thanks for the response. I have two SVS subs, so the bass response is not particularly important. I would love someone like you, who has the best measuring equipment and the ability to interpret the measurements, to address the imaging capability of the KEF R3 Meta (which is extraordinary). A more-or-less flat tonal balance, low distortion, and good dispersion are of primary importance, of course, but an expansive yet focused soundstage is the first thing I listen for in a great speaker (that I can afford). @@ErinsAudioCorner
Hello...so which speakers did you keep?;
Can I get a good midbass/kick out of the KEF ?(deep Bass is provided by my subwoofer).
Come to think of it, the Denton 85th Anniversary (I bought them for my small room because I liked the Lintons so much) has an oddly similar bump in the treble as the Aura 2, making certain tracks that have bright hi-hats and cymbals or remastered albums that have extra treble almost impossible to listen to (for me at least). And sadly, no amount toe-in or toe-out can change that. Speaker designers don't seem to understand that when a track or instrument has been EQ-d around 11-12 kHz (to make it sound extra crisp) then a speaker with a raised treble of 4 or 5 dB around 11-12 kHz will make that track or instrument sound overly crisp.
Seems very much like Erins findings when listening. Btw, I've seen some relatively easy tweaks for the Denton, via a resistor, to tame the tweeter somewhat. I believe the Denton 80 was more linear, but criticized for being rolled off, lol.
@@34332 Actually, I installed the resistor tweak and it's fine now. 2 Ohm 10 Watt seems to do the trick. I do wonder how well they measure with that tweak.
@@cremersalex
I've found some limited measurements on AVR and Joe'n Tell. You can def. see a rise in the top-end. They also did mention critical positioning but I'm sure, as you stated, you trialed and error'd ;) Would be nice if Erin got his hands on them one day.