Figuring Out Donkey Kong 64 - A Retrospective | PostMesmeric
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2020
- More than 20 years later, Donkey Kong 64 has turned from a critical darling to a running joke, arguably what killed the collect-a-thon game genre. To celebrate the fourth year of Donkey Kong Month, it's time to revisit this strange title and see what happened in DK's transition to the third dimension. Today, we're looking at DK64 and trying to figure it out.
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i have no idea why i was so connected to lanky kong as a child.. and to this day he is still my favorite kong
Thank you.
Lanky is the entire reason I played the Trombone in middle and high school 😂
Same dude, I just always gravitated to the weirdos, oddballs, “crazy” or wackiest characters when given the choice
Because he has no grace, he has no style. But this Kong has a funny face.
Me too
Its nice to see a review that doesn't simply say "donkey kong 64 bad" its fair to not enjoy the gameplay overall but we can't just simply ignore the qualities and charm the game offers.
Its a game that with a few core alterations could've been remembered as an all time great, I'm tired of people acting like it was a mistake with zero value, the death of a genre and nothing more.
This is pretty much why i don't take the negative reviews seriously cause that's all boils down for their reviews. I'm not saying their opinions are wrong, but people go around saying their gospel when i think their arguments are flawed.
the death of genre statements are blatantly false too. People's interests in 3d platformers got shifted when Jax and especially Ratchet hit the scene
Exactly and the critics who say things like this have probably never played the game and probably complain about how games with to little collectables are bad
This was my first true experience with Donkey Kong as a 90s baby. Perhaps it is nostalgia, but I have such profound positive feelings toward this game I can't pin point why. Its charm, character appeal, and aesthetic, I guess really sold it for me. I REALLY wish there was a remaster with hot fixes for modern gaming. Ughhh. I miss my childhood, sometimes.
Pointing out how artificial most of the obstacles feel is a pretty spot-on analysis, but I feel like constantly getting across collectibles you can't collect because you're the wrong character also rubs people the wrong way (definitely works that way for me, at least). In Banjo-Kazooie, lines of notes lead you along paths through the level. In DK64, you find coins of one color and bananas of another at the end of a corridor. If the level design had used collectibles to lead the way to that character's golden bananas more and cut down on mixing different colors on the same path (which forces you to backtrack if you want them) I'm sure the game would've been remembered more fondly - a lot of rooms in most levels basically only exist to be banana/coin closets, and thanks to mixing different kongs' collectibles you're forced to revisit them at least twice. (The starting section of Gloomy Galleon is the most obvious example of how tedious this gets). And of course, placing them so that they require a specific ability to reach (e.g. placing most of Lanky's bananas on steep slopes or hovering over damage floors you need the Baboon Balloon to traverse) would make the character-specific division feel less artificial.
Creepy castle is the only level that doesn't do what you described, bananas lead to character specific bonuses
@@osets2117 Exactly. And that's why it's so fondly remembered nowadays
@@osets2117 Creepy Castle was a great level game design and level design as so was the level (how I played it) before it Fungi Forest. 🥰💜
Creepy Castle deserves special mention for giving you 50 bananas for DK and then Tiny for climbing to the top of the castle outside
I’m about to start this game. I remember loving it at a kid, except for that clown toy box boss..
Hey, Mad Jack was honestly probably the best boss out of the whole entire game. Yeah, even more so than K. Rool himself.
Being 9 or 10 The first time seeing him I felt like Tiny. I was Tiny, he even tries to scare her/me. I'm like, "joke's on you, jerk! I'm a girl who likes being scared! Now imma beat you! 😈
That boss is what gave me my taste for difficult bosses like the ones in the dark souls series. God I love this game, even did a stream of it some time ago, still holds up as as fun and good game if you spend less of your time obsessing over collectibles (go figure). Also those switches were super satisfying to me, finding them, and seeing what they unlocked was always cool to me. Not a lot of showmanship obviously, but I think it's too reductive to say "switch bad, in game design better"
It’s a great game
Ah yes that's a pain, I always dread it when I near the time of the fight, and you have to face it eventually.
It's probably my favorite boss of all time.
When I was a kid, I hated this game. I thought it was incredibly beautiful and colorful, but I had small brain, so I didn’t quite vibe with it.
But as an adult, I think I’m a bit more patient, and it’s my favorite from the N64 Rareware games. I think it does a great job at filling up those big levels with everything, and the movement from each character is so unique and fun. I felt super nostalgic watching this from when I made my own video, and I want to pop it in again myself.
I do agree that the collectibles are distracting rather than naturally blending in with the levels. I think that was a great point.
Your video making skills have gotten so good over the years. I’m so interested to see where you’ll be in a couple of years.
I loved it as a kid but I love it more as an adult. All the collectibles and character specific paths makes the game more complex and alot longer. I prefer a longer game. Makes it more with the money to me
This review/ analysis is the first (and probably the only one) that doesn't mention Beaver Bother at all! Respect!
Any game with Bananaporting is ok in my book.
I never got around to playing much of Donkey Kong 64, as I only ever rented it. Even so, I remember feeling overwhelmed by the amount of things in the game the little I did play. Pretty good breakdown of a game that kind of came to be infamous for its shortcomings.
The exact thing they don't need to do is to scale down.
I really love this game and before anyone says that I’m just blinded by childhood nostalgia, I only found out that this game exists less than a month ago. It’s such a damn shame that it didn’t get a Wii U remaster because that would have been the perfect console for it. No passing controllers bs, just pick your controller, and don’t swap it unless some real world thing makes you.
This game was a joy to 101%. Although I will say, even after 4 or so years I'm still hesitant to go back and do it again 😂.
That rabbit race though...
You gave a fair review to one of my favorite games. There really is no point to the gun or face switches. The music pads are a little bit better because a new player might forget who plays what instrument. I also appreciate you pointing out that you only need a small % of collectibles to beat the final boss. I don't like people who complain about the collectibles when you don't really have to get anywhere near 100 percent. Really, the only issue I think you forgot to discuss is how obscure the Nintendo coin is and the difficulty in obtaining it, considering it's required to complete the story. That is the most inexcusable part of an otherwise excellent game.
Oh god, that stupid coin. I looked everywhere for it, only to hear from a friend that it was hidden behind a golden banana on the mario minigame. THAT WAS 5 YEARS AFTER I GOT STUCK AT THAT COIN DOOR.
It is pretty bad how cryptic it is getting the Nintendo Coin. It's sort of mentioned to be a "special prize" back in Frantic Factory, but then it's just "oh yeah, you need this in the last level too." Pretty inconvenient and it could've been handled better.
The guns were basically them saying "hey, we made Goldeneye"
This game was part of my childhood , and when I was a kid. I loved it to death. But some of the mini games were just damn hard, which is normal. However, with the obscurity of the Nintendo coin. It just made matters worse for. I having to beat the OG DK game twice is so frustrating. The RARE coin was fun, but like that challenging hard. Like you get it and are like popping off. With the Nintendo coin, I just wanted the game to be over with.
Agreed. If you only had to beat an arcade game once it would be okay. But you have to beat two arcade games, one of them twice, on insane difficulty to get to the final boss. It’s kind of a strange decision, and definitely the biggest annoyance when it comes to DK64.
Still, this is a good game
DK64 is a very interesting game I actually replayed again recently, as an adult. I played the game as a kid, never beat it and found it frustrating. As an adult, while there are still some frustrating moments, I found myself enjoying the game more now than I did as a kid and I finally beat it. Very satisfying.
I found myself able to better memorize where I needed to bring a kong next (whether it be mini-bananas, doors, switches, etc.), so switching wasn't as tiresome. I found myself more just exploring and getting a layout of the land and not worrying about collecting everything right away. That said, the game is a glitchy mess, more so than the usual polish I would expect from Rare, and that's because of hardware problems and rushing to get a huge game out for the holidays. It needed at least 6-9 more months of polishing and difficulty balancing imo, and perhaps would have allowed the team to change up the gameplay as well.
I wonder what the long term reception of this game would have been if they removed the minigame barrels and just gave you a banana instead.
Have a few but the difficulty of them and the fact they are repeated so much is very irritating.
Two words Beaver Bother
I fundamentally disagree with the basis of this video. My brother and I played the game and got the 102% before we even hit middle school. I believe the games biggest strength is the vast openness of the levels and having to navigate the tough areas. It’s rewarding and adds a level of mystery to each level. I hate the Mario/sonic design where everything is so linear. DK64 was amazing in that you got to truly explore these levels that had their own stories to tell and characters to interact with. It was like a more advanced Banjo Kazooir
People just don't have the patience for DK64, it is a game where you do a lot of back tracking to see the world's full scape, and the bonus banana challenges can be relatively difficult. The reason you needed the expansion pak for DK is because they tried to ambitiously set the type of standard in platforming that's being held now, world's keep getting larger, it was a necessity in DK64 when trying to create scenarios for 25 gold bananas a world as opposed to 10 in Banjo Kazooie and Mario, but it's like it already seems like they scaled back some before the final project seeing as clankers cavern was intended to merely be a part of fungi forest, DK took the hub world concept and it was like every level had levels inside of it. Big game doesn't equal bad game, you don't have to have anywhere near all the collectables to conclude your adventure and it gives you something to go back and do.
You really hit the nail on the head in regards to DK64's biggest problem. If I had one word to describe the game, it'd be "arbitrary". Why do you need to be a certain kong in order to collect a certain color of banana? Who knows. Why do you need to be a certain character to hit a switch that anyone could realistically hit? Who knows. The game just becomes a checklist after awhile since you aren't thinking for yourself, you're just following an exceptionally bland set of rules. Honestly, the only fun I get out of DK64 is when I play around with all the really easy to do glitches the game has.
"Arbitrary" is the perfect word for it. In Banjo-Kazooie, the different pads and buttons told you what they _did_ ; the pad with bird feet is a Jump Pad, the pad with a feather on it is a Flight Pad. The switch with Grunty's face did something in her lair, generally in close proximity to the entrance of the level you found the switch in. In DK64, the pads and buttons tell you what _you_ need to do to use them. See a switch with DK's face on it? Only his butt can press it down. See a switch with a coconut on it? Gotta shoot it with coconuts. What do they do? Who cares, stop diddling around as Diddy and just get DK's big, hairy ass and coconut gun over here.
Collecting stuff and using powerups in DKC and B-K felt like a reward for being good at playing the game. Collecting stuff and using powerups in DK64 feels like a chore. "Come back here as Chunky to pick up all these green bananas. No, Lanky can't do it, he can only pick up blue bananas. Why? 'Cause he has no style or grace, only a funny face." Diddy's barrel pack could have been the basis of entire shmup levels in DKC; strap on the barrel and enjoy smooth multidirectional control with boosting and popgun firing. In DK64? "Strap on this barrel pack and fly through these rings. Why? Don't ask questions. And don't complain about the clunky, awkward controls, either. Just fly through the rings so you can collect your gold banana and be on your way to your next task."
@@bcrossfire1219 this
Perfect replies.
I remembered this game recently, listened to the soundtrack, watched the rap opening for nostalgia's sake and eventually figured I'd try and finish what I didn't back in '99/2000. But as a player with a bad case of completionist syndrome (who has never managed to 100% any game ever, mind you), this game is a NIGHTMARE on top of the usual frustration, and the arbitrarity you mentioned makes it so much less worthwhile.
I started wondering if this was a genre or perhaps generational issue, then came across this review which summed up my feelings and made it clear that it's largely specific to DK64. Think I'll drop it after just a few hours with the emulator-I'm probably better off playing Banjo-Kazooie, which I've only played a couple hours of.
Don't you ever disrespect Donkey Kong 64
Hands down my favourite game, it’s too bad we can’t get a game like this these days and I think that’s pretty dumb because of the sales it got in the past
They need to take some risk instead of milking the 2d side of things.
Personally, I loved it, some of my earliest n64 memories are of playing monkey smash with my brothers, we all loved it
This is one of my favorite channels and I’m so happy to finally see you cover this game! Love you PostMesmy ❤️
DK 64 is one of the most nostalgic games for me, but I'm scared of going back to it with an adult mind.
@Tate Zachariah does it work?
So I largely missed out on the N64 as I swapped over to Sony for the sake of Squaresoft RPGs. However, based on my knowledge of Super Mario 64 and what you displayed here, I can't help but wonder if the swapping of different Kongs combined with unique paths and collectibles was an attempt to get the most out of one level like Mario 64 did, but rather than jumping back into the same level over and over with a new goal, you swapped Kongs in order to chase different content. In theory, you get the same sort of mileage out of a single level, but without having to return to the hub world and jump back in. The problem is that, as you mention, the content is gated by very obvious locks that inspire no sense of discovery on the part of the player, nor a need for skill.
At the same time, I also missed out on Banjo Kazooie, so if that game fixed the issue of capitalizing on a level's content without booting the player out of the level each time, I'm unaware.
Yes, Banjo-Kazooie was basically Mario 64, without booting you out when you collected a Jiggy
Proposing to change the switches, crystals and character specific barrels are amazing ideas. I personally love the game despite knowing it has some bad stuff. It sure has near limitless potential.
I've always been the 'black sheep' among my friends in that I was one of the few who enjoyed this game. I 100%'d it once or twice when I was younger. Now that I'm grown... I find myself every now and then thinking "I want to go on a nostalgia trip and fully complete DK64 again, this'll be fun!". Typically, though, by the time I'm through the first 2 or 3 worlds, I'm just like "yeah that's enough, not going to finish this"😅
In the Donkey Kong Country/Land series bonus stages would also serve as short cuts that dropped you off somewhere else than where you entered them. This would place you further ahead in the level and occasionally the spawn point was such that you could grab an item otherwise inaccessible.
This video has made me realize that as much as people yell at it for basically the same reasons they yell at DK64 (i.e. worlds that are big and unwieldy to navigate, huge amount of stuff, heavy reliance on transformations for puzzle solving), Banjo Tooie basically does exactly what dk64 tried to do with regard to exploration and outside-the-box solutions better, while solving almost all of the issues within it (except for the huge amount of shit minigames).
Tooie was just as irritating, with the backtracking through giant interconnected worlds, with absolutely no direction.
And constantly running back and switching between mumbo and other transformations, just to open a door
Banjo-Kazooie was perfect though
DK64 is tough game for me look at objectively, because while there would be an eventual backlash to it largely rooted in certain gameplay choices, I myself had issues with it from the first time I played back in 1999.
I adored the DKC trilogy; the aesthetics, the music, the underrated sense of flow of its platforming. In an era of so many hop and bop mascots titles it was a series of games that stood out for the realistic backgrounds and foregrounds, with a moody/melancholy soundtrack to boot. It felt like an evolution of 2D Mario in so many ways and a 3D followup felt like it take those aspects to the next level.
But Donkey Kong 64 simply didn't feel like that to me. A more grounded sense of tone with 3D art design was not (and given the hardware generation it was in probably couldn't be) achieved, Kirkhope's take on atmospheric music lacked the punch of David Wise's, and the kinetic energy of the platforming was gone in favor of slower exploration. While Mario 64 shifted to open world settings and felt like it kept the spirit of its NES/SNES games intact, DK64 felt like it inherently lost something in its jump. It was not Donkey Kong Country in 3D, it was a lesser Banjo Kazooie game in DK clothing.
Its ironic that this change bothered me given that DKC in 1994 was itself as much of break (if not more) from what the Donkey Kong franchise had been prior. At the time though all I could do was look at the likes of Crash Bandicoot and find myself wishing that was the kind of 3D Donkey Kong gameplay we were getting rather than another collectathon.
Donkey Kong 64 was one of the few N64 games I actively played since I ended up getting the console so late in its lifespan. I remember, examining the buttons and wondering just what was the difference between all the bullet switches, getting frustrated at how they all looked the same. I think I even asked my science teacher because I was so salty about it and tried to get her to explain if that was possible. Your video is spot on when it comes to the analysis of the design philosophies of the game, its weaknesses and strengths. The individual abilities of the kongs was what I think does the best in communicating what Rareware had in mind but not necessarily what we got in the final package. Seriously though, great video.
Something that might help in future playthroughs, is to clear the first two levels by Kong, and the later six levels by room. For example, in Gloomy Galleon take care of one lagoon before going to the other.
22:39 I really wonder what Donkey Kong's legacy could've been if Rare had not been bought by Microsoft. Sequels to DK64 and more Country games. :)
Yes that would have been amazing. They were working on Donkey Kong Racing for the Gamecube. I was so excited about that game but then the Microsoft thing happened and the game got cancelled.
Wonderful exploration of a game I still love so much despite its flaws.
Excellent review! You made very good points with backing evidence, and didn’t let nostalgia tint your lens. I’m surprised you didn’t mention just how broken the collision is though.
If they revamped the game and fix the issues with it, I'd buy it. It was such a defining moment in all of our lives as kids that a part of me is saddened by how it gets treated nowadays, even though I begrudgingly agree with the complaints.
I really wish that at some point they do remake it, because it's a classic and it deserves to be remembered like Spyro and Crash did. It shouldn't die on this hill.
I feel some of your points where valid. I think the back tracking wouldn't be so bad if you had a map to guide you to the hidden places or places that had items certain characters can get. On the bigger levels it can definitely get overwhelming
Yeah, it was in a strange place and time in games where levels weren't quite as big enough to immediately necessitate a map, but it would've helped considerably in retrospect. I think as games got overtly bigger that the whole map idea became important to facilitate fluid progression and exploration. It would've helped especially in a level like Fungi Forest, which had a ton of open spaces to traverse.
It's crazy that you have under ten thousand subscribers. You're a rad channel that deserves more!
Donkey Kong 64 is my second favourite game of all time
I know the N64 couldn't handle it, but imagine if Donkey Kong 64 would've looked like the Country games, except rendered in real-time. I love the detailed realistic graphics of Country and would've loved to see it come more to life in 3D! For Retro Studios' 2.5D games it could've been interesting as well.
Your reviews are incredibly well thought out. It's a genuine review that goes over every aspect, good and bad. This game in particular is such a puzzle. The only people who really remember it are those who grew up with it and loved it. Now though, it doesn't have a new audience, just the people with broken nostalgia.
This game really is a carrot on a stick. There is an exceptional game just under the surface but the game we end up getting is unfocused, rough, and even lazily designed in so many places. I hadn't thought about how little freedom there was in this game until you pointed it out. The game could have definitely used a more creative way for the Kongs to interact with the world. If they wanted the Kongs to beat individual challenges while also maintaining a great amount of player freedom, they really needed to be more unique from each other.
If there was something I could change from the game right now, I would get rid of all of the different colored bananas. Give us something else to serve the purpose of the banana medals and leave the entrances to bosses behind some platforming or puzzle aspect like in Banjo-Tooie. The bananas are just placed too randomly for it to ever be fun finding them all.
Yes
Banjo tooie borrowed a lot from donkey Kong 64 though so, it seems like a lot of people don’t want to acknowledge this due to nostalgia. What about the shit mini games from banjo tooie that was inherited from donkey Kong 64 ?
I think it is sad that so many people object the color dependent bananas. I my case I was, most of the time, quite excited to remember places I have to backtrack, when I explored a level. The point is just: When I EXPLORE a level! In same cases, you run back and forth on a small sub-area just to collect bananas. This happens especially in the Gloomy Galleon. But mostly, you can clear a path or area with one Kong on the main path and have to remember 2-3 junctions for a specific Kong but usually much easier accessable after you finished the path once (for example thanks to teleportation). There are mistakes made, but I rather see them about enemy/health placing. This is also a reason, why much of exploration becomes less memorable.
After the first two Areas (Jungle and Desert) you gain full health each time you swap, while you can and even have to swap frequently. Simultaneously it needs 8 hits to die and when you die, you spawn in an area full of teleporters just to plae you back to the room where you died on your puzzles/travled to your puzzles. Except for the Castle. This is probably the only level in which you need to time your jumping. Although your healthbar counts three melons (12 hits), most enemies here are either punching you down the entire castle (similar to an instant kill) or are just gimmicks. Also it is the only place, in which you do not find the teleporters immedietaly after the start, making losing your life punishing. But for the majoraty of Levels after the first two, dying, health, enemies are practically useless. My favorites are the Explosive Barrels in the Water Level. They can hit you only once (because they blow up) and DROP a melon to recover one health. They are literally pointless as enemies. They might scare you the first time but thats it.
All this shifts the focus of the game into a MiniGame focused one. As such, the overworld just becomes an annoying Loading Screen between the Mini-Games you have to complete with too much back-tracking. No exploration, not obstacles between swapping, just switching between Kong-Barrels and Minigame-Areas.
I think if each Kong would had their own Health-Meter, swapping would mean much more calculation and you would rather be inclined to think which of the Kongs/which of the Sub-areas, you are gonna explore first. Also it would make defeating an enemy much more rewarding and back-tracking could be a threat in certain passages instead of just "a repeating pattern" (like the K Rool Temple in the dester each time you cross the quicksand with the Zinger).
Edit: I think the Level which really screwed up is the Water Level, too less area and too much swapping betwen the panels to enter the next section and the different Banana colors. And as someone ele mentioned below, in some cases, the Bananas you collect change colors. The basic concept is, in my opinion still great, but there are some Level Design flaws, especially in the Water Level but also among the others from 3 to 6. But giving each Kong their own Health would improve the game I think. Probably not possible to implement back when.
I think the problem I've had with most negative reviews on DK64 is how reviewers tend to blow the problems with this game out of proportion. When looking at past reviews I've always seen them focus more on the negative aspects this game has rather than the positive itself. Reviews from people like The Geek Critique and Square Eyed Jack came as extremely negative and ignoring the positive simultaneously while stating how it's nothing like Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie.
For me i look at DK64 as its own thing rather than a successor to those games. It tried to be different and succeeded in most ways and failed in some. This game will always be one of the best N64 games in my eyes and honestly i really hope that it gets a re-release on the Switch with hopefully other N64 games as a part of N64 online addition or something.
Donkey Kong 64 and banjo kazooie are literally from the same development team, even using the same engine. Banjo tooie inherited heavily from donkey Kong 64, good and bad mechanics, but you never hear these idiot reviewers high on nostalgia ever point that out.
Great review of this game! This is a wonderful video! DK 64 was one of my favorites as a kid and I’ve managed to beat it twice. I completely get everything you’re saying, it seems very accurate, but this game will always have a special place in my heart. Thanks for the review though, I’m very glad I watched it.
It would had been way better if the specialabilities were activated by a button-comand, but (like you told us) were only usable in certain rooms. And everyone should had have a unique weaponstyle. For example, only one can use a gun and another kong could had used a staff for buttons behind narrow gaps or holes. And another kong could had use the yellow grenades
Great review btw, hope you get more Subscribers soon.
Even though Dk64 has many open problems, at least it opens up many open solutions to solving them
(Since my other comment was already long enough here a new one)
You made a good point about their movements I have not considered. It would add much to the game, when shootings, jumping and stuff would play differently when you change charater.
But I also wonna talk about the music: The fact it is so shiny in the beginning and so dark later, makes it feel like there is a peacefull world, threaten by a dark ruthless force and you just want to "happy colorful world from the beginning" back. A shame such good ideas are buried by bad Level Design choices.
Playing Donkey Kong 64 at my grandma’s house I never got past the first few levels despite trying to so many times every year I visited. The world and characters fascinated me so much though as a kid.
The most fun though was playing the multiplayer with my cousins. I’d be curious how well that holds up today.
I don’t know how or why TH-cam recommended me this video but I’m glad I watched it. Nice video.
I played it recently and TH-cam randomly recommended me this after I finished it.
Honestly I had no issues at all with the game. It's nice that the game isn't too unintuitive. You show up somewhere and you know what to do, it's like cleaning your room, just grabbing one collectible at a time. The major problems were with the difficulty of the minigames.
I do remember two issues with Fungi Forest howest. Both weirdly involving Lanky Kong. The game always has one switch does one thing, and the changing camera angles aren't very helpful for knowing where you are. There's that switch on top of the mushroom that opens two doors on the sides of the mushroom, but how are you supposed to know to hit the button twice? Perhaps if the switch opened both doors at the same time and allowed you to do them in either order it would be fine, but as it is, that was annoying to learn you had to press that switch twice when nowhere else in the game requires that. The other issue is the race. It's the only instance the game requires coming back to a previous level with upgrades from a future level. It is, backtracking. "But wait, you have to run every level with all 5 kongs, isn't that backtracking?" Not really, no, because of the 5 kong system it's more akin to playing 5 separate levels that all share a map. It's not backtracking to go do Chunky's bananas in Jungle Japes because Chunky has his own gameplay to do there. What is backtracking is getting to a race, failing it, failing it again, giving up, then going to the next level, finding out about the upgrade, then having to go back and do that exact race again.
You should always in a Collectathon be able to solve a problem that's right in front of you. Coming back later is okay and should be reserved for when you know you have to come back later to progress in that direction. The game shouldn't throw a failure at you.
Additionally, DK64 lacks some quality of life features due to age that would be nice. Like having a map so you can get your bearings better for where you need to get stuff, or some kind of dynamic hint system to take you to an area you might have forgotten about (like those instances where you're missing like, 10 bananas as Diddy and have no idea where they are but because it's 10 you _know_ it's a single balloon you missed floating somewhere), some way of the game giving you dynamic hints like using the crystal coconut slam to point you in the direction of missing collectables would be good.
I feel like of all rare games this one needs a remake at another chance to be the ambitious project it was planned to be
It should have a remake but Rare sadly can't do that since they're not partners with Nintendo anymore, but that doesnt mean that people like us cant remake it for free
I would like to remake the game for free but I dont have a good computer to learn coding, modeling and such, but eventually when I get a good computer, learn how to do model good graphics then I'll remake the game if I still have the ambition for it in the future
@@GoldenMarionette sweet I’d love to play it
I loved this game as a kid, however, looking at it as an adult it definitely lacks gameplay substance as collecting repetition is the main mechanic that drives progression. With that being said I would most definitely buy a remastered version (even though I own it for the n64) for the switch and play through it again!
Didn't mention anything about one of the few games that actually used Dolby Surround Sound, sounded amazing on the Beats Studio on my second playthrough.
Something funny I'm noticing is I've seen some old critique on Tiny's redesign (which I personally prefer) about how she doesn't look like Dixie's younger sister anymore and is too tall, but even in her original look when compared to Diddy, she's always been taller than the 2 lol.
On the topic itself, yeah I grew up in a world hearing about how this game was so beloved, so Im shocked to find out recently ppl are turning on it a bit. But it seems more fairly critiqued and not just a "old, aged bad" parade, at least from what ive seen.
Brilliant analysis!
Despite the flaws that Donkey Kong 64 has, I still love the game and would much rather play it over modern AAA titles. That game holds a special place in my heart alongside Super Mario 64 and the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
Deconstructing Donkey Kong 64 is a niche and strange hobby of mine. I love videos like these that analyze the problems. I really wish there was another collectathon platformer that did the multiple character formula effectively, but I guess one can only dream, right? :/
Anyways, excellent video!! Just subscribed~!!
Plus some good music to boot!
Honestly as a kid it excited me that I had all these things to collect as well as visiting old levels as the other kongs, guess I was a collector freak back then...I still strongly hold this game as one, if not, the best game I’ve ever played...nostalgia wise
I know a lot of people dislike it but: I loved (and still love) the many collectables in DK64. It gave me something to do, keep a long playtime without getting boring. I couldnt stand farming for equipment in MMOs, but DK64 is so much fun.
Same here. The best part of Collecting bananas is that I knew I slowly progress on completion.
Not to mention some MMOs have shitty RNG.
King K Rool’s personality changes with each new game and DK64 clearly followed suit.
As for humor, King K Rool starting the game as a no-nonsense villain that’s finally had it with the Kongs & his own minions failing him becomes all the more humorous when you see that facade totally drop right when he dons his boxing attire and he falls prey to all the shenanigans he spent the entire game acting like was so above that kind of behavior
In terms of Nintendo's IPs; DK, Wario (platformer) and F-Zero have been way overdue for a new entry
I really liked that, and honestly kind of needed it. I never hated the game, and liked it quite a bit as a kid. But with how much hate the game has gotten over the years and how much I've honestly always agreed with it, I started to think it was just nostalgia, looking at all of the powers and assuming there was more depth than there actually was because kids don't know how to think critically. But I always thought that the simple answer of "too much stuff" wasn't very satisfying, because it felt really subjective and intrinsically contrary to the feedback loop I still remembered fondly. But this video blames it more on the telegraphing, and for the first time, I can say that I felt that problem not only as an adult, but as a kid as well -- and combined with the looks at the aesthetics, humor, and enormous potential of the game, I think I finally understand what I saw in the game back then. You have to appreciate more what it represents than what it is, and while I still can't really call it a good game, I'm happy that I can now call it a good experiment.
I would LOVE to see a modded version where they manage to address some of these issues. I loved exploring DK Isle as a kid, but as an adult, holy shit, all the backtracking with different Kongs SUCKS.
hit the nail on the head. some fans made a mod of this game that allows you to switch characters at any time, and while that makes it less frustrating, it also doesn't make it more fun; because it's completely arbitrary how collectibles are walled off. that red banana wasn't somewhere no other character but diddy could reach, it was just there on the ground to make you walk the same path again but as diddy.
My friend and I replayed this awhile back, taking turns after each golden banana obtained. We got to the third world and had an absolute blast. It's jankiness and tedious design choices are fun to laugh it in that type of scenario. That being said, I LOVED this game as a kid, but never finished it since I couldn't beat the original Donkey Kong arcade to get the Nintendo coin.
My biggest complaint with DK64 is it was not a continuation of DKC, it tried to be SM64 and BK. I miss how DK Island was diverse on its own and now is a small shadow of what it was. If DK64 was linear like DKC it would have been much better received IMO. All those collectables would be fine if there were like 40 linear levels or something like that.
Yeaaahhhh, no.
When I was a kid I loved collectathon type games, and yet when I played DK64 I always thought there was something wrong with it. It just didn't feel as fun as the other games, including both Banjo games. Many years have passed and my opinion hasn't changed, but it was watching LPs of the game that I finally started to notice why I might not have liked the game as a kid, and I think you hit the nail on the head: It all feels so artificial, so not alive. The color coding for the collectables itself added to this, as there honestly is no real reason why Donkey couldn't have grabbed the red bananas. It's there just to artificially force you to use the others, but it doesn't make sense in the world. The switches are everywhere but the game gives no reason why. It doesn't feel natural, and neither do the mini-games. Tooie also had minigames, but they were thematical (and also much more varied). The barrels gave you special power-ups, but they were used for solving extremely obvious puzzles right next to them, so in the end they could have been switches as well, wouldn't have made that big of a difference. Same goes for the music pads, they literally were the same thing as a switch. It never felt like one Kong couldn't get to a certain place because he lacked the ability to do so, it felt he couldn't get there because the game didn't want him to, and that's it. Nothing felt organic or real.
Also, a minor grip, but why were some areas in this game so friggin' dark??
The mini games in tooie were shit too, never enjoyed them, they disrupted the flow of the game, and took away from the experience of the level itself. Tooie is literally banjo kazooie and donkey Kong 64 combined.
@@sammyibrahim6104 I wasn't particularly fond of the minigames in Tooie, but I personally found them to be much better thematically integrated in their own levels, making them feel less out of place and more organic. Like I said, that's one of my main problems with DK64: The levels didn't feel natural. Tooie did not have this problem even taking the minigames into consideration.
@@Hilipinapixili but it’s safe to say that lot from tooie was borrowed from dk64 right ? At that time nobody thought dk64 was flawed, not even the developers. It was look at as technically impressive for it’s time. In my opinion, they aged the same to me.
@@Hilipinapixili that being said, about the mini games being integrated into the level more in tooie, while I can agree to a certain extent, if it isn’t going to be an enjoyable experience to play, that argument in it of itself is pointless. We play video games to play them not look at them.
@@sammyibrahim6104 Disagree. As I said, even when I was a kid I totally thought there was something wrong with DK64, I just couldn't put my finger on the reason. As of today, I still replay Tooie every once in a while and I find it to be an enjoyable experience, while I have no intention of ever replaying DK64 again.
You made some great points here. You need more subscribers
If anyone wants to give this game another chance, try the Randomizer. It has the option to swap Kongs anywhere with the push of a button and makes exploring much more engaging by making the whole game one big Metroidvania (especially when turning on the room shuffle)
I've seen people playing DK64 Randomizer on livestreams and it definitely has my curiosity. It'd be fascinating to see how exactly it changes the things that so many people, myself included, find issues with in the game.
Being born in 1986, I loved this game as a youngster. Only ever played it through once. The main things I disliked about the game was the frame rate lag. May have to give it another replay. Wish it was on the Switch somehow as I’m not sure I could replay it on the n64 due to the lag.
Thinking about it though, the gameplay mechanics would have been much better if you could collect each collectible with whichever Kong, you’d just have to think how to use your Kongs abilities to know which Kong to use. Make all bananas yellow and let all Kongs pick them up I say. Too much context sensitive stuff too. With just a few small changes this would be 10/10. But with my nostalgia glasses I’d give it 9/10 still haha.
Agreed.
The lag is fixed on virtual console
Replaying DK64 just to complete the story, since I never did as a kid. I've attempted at least 3 regular runs before I would get bored around Gloamy Galleon and then quit. Feel the itch and restart the game again and get bored by the same level.
This time I'm replaying with the tag anywhere romhack, which is proving to help with the backtracking aspect of the original game. However... it's making me realize how much of a grind it was just to get to some of these later game bananas, then most of them are locked behind a frustrating minigame, and the most frustrating minigames get repeated more than other it seems.
The requirement to have both of the classic game coins to complete the game is kind of ridiculous too.
Yeah the arcade games and coins make brilliant extras, but should not be required.
They need a remastered version!
I really don't have much to say except for solid stuff and overall very very quiet video. I don't know if it's a mixing issue or something on my end but I really had to boost my audio to hear everything clearly.
I LOVED DK64 as a kid even though at that time I didn't like Mario 64 and I've never been a huge fan of sandbox platformer's. I've wondered why I loved that game so much and I think in part its because it somewhat resembles a Metroidvania game. Once I accepted that DK64 wasn't going to be a pure platformer the way the DKC games were (which I accepted pretty early on), I was able to really enjoy it. There are too many damn things to collect for sure, and it's hardly a platformer, but as an adventure game I thought it worked pretty well for its time. But those are just my thoughts based on what I remember. I haven't given this game a serious play through in nearly 2 decades.
I love this game but your criticism is valid
I’ve always said, if they were to remake this game, honestly some of the collectibles should be lowered. For example, each kong should have three golden bananas and not 5. Further, there should be 50 and not 100 bananas to collect. The collection should essentially be resized. They should also lower those extra coins you have to get to 1 because the extra coin quest to get to the final boss was just too much. That’s just my opinion.
Spot on. Basically, this game has a dozen different arbitrary ways of telling you: "Come back here as this other Kong"
Lovely video, thank you!
I agree with your criticism. I think Banjo Tooie improved on almost every aspect of this game. Also I must say after the first two levels I more and more hated the level design. Every level gets so labyrinthean which just gets annoying if you try to collect a million bananas and so on.
I just finished the game and I want to play it all over again, I think it's my favorite game now. Very fun and charismatic, the backtracking didn't bother me at all, the only thing I would change about the game is the difficulty in getting Nintendo's currency, otherwise it's super good on the original console, but on the emulator the timer is wrong and the bonuses and races become much more difficult
Also, I don't think the collectibles are too much, I really want more
My advice for them would be to split the game up into each segment with each king being stuck on each individual island surrounding King. K. Rool’s base and each time you finish you affect the other kings world in some way wether it be making it icy then a lava level or changing the level from an underwater world to a dry desert plus it would’ve broken up the hand enough for the player to not get bored of the characters but also lead them to wanting more
I don't want to hear about too many collectables when 900 and 1000 korok seeds exist. You can 101% DK64 in under 12 hours without tools or glitches. It ain't that much.
Frustration with lanky Kong and the dung beetle race it made my day when I found out Lanky could punch the dung beetle right back!
Looking back at DK64, the problem with its core design is the overuse of what I call, "red key, red door" game design. Too many obstacles are just arbitrary barriers. Every Kong specific switch, pad or barrel is more or less a "key" for every "lock". There's no puzzle to solve because the solution is right there in front of the player. Hell, they don't even bother to make the key (pad, switch or barrel) hidden or difficult to find. It's typically near whatever you need to bypass in order to get a golden banana. The player is rarely challenged or tasked with utilizing the intrinsic properties and traits of these abilities, in order to solve a puzzle. It's far simpler and a lot easier for the developers to say, put a switch with Tiny's face on it as opposed to creating an area with platforming sequence that requires her unique jumping abilities. The latter would be more difficult to develop. However, it would be more engaging and memorable for the player. I'm curious if this is an unintentional and fundamental flaw in DK64's core design or just something they had to put in due lack of time.
I think, when balancing between five different characters, making artificial and arbitrary "red key, red door" scenarios seems to be the safest and cleanest way to balance all of the skillsets. Otherwise, you would be able to use multiple Kongs' skills for a single challenge. Like, if you needed to reach something high up, you could use either Diddy's Rocketbarrel or Chunky's giant size to reach it. That would honestly be cool to see (very Breath of the Wild in its skill depth), but it could cause so many balance and testing issues in practice. When looking at it that way, the pads/barrels/switches were limiters to game design that was already too big to handle. If DK64 had more time, tech, and resources, maybe it could've avoided using those limiters and made custom-woven elements that weren't just a red key for a red door. That's just me spitballing, but in a nutshell, you're right. It's a color-coded key for a door. Not a fully fleshed-out challenge where the player needs to brainstorm to solve it.
@@PostMesmeric That's a very interesting take you have. I didn't initially consider balance, as you put it. And you're correct that the seemingly arbitrary barriers are there to intentionally "gate" the player. The other day I thought of a very similar scenario as you mentioned. Let's say there's a vertical segment that needed to be ascended. There are multiple Kongs who have abilities that allow them to essentially fly upwards. As interesting as it would be to allow the player to choose a particular Kong who is optimally suited to navigate these spaces, it could potentially lead to players breaking the game and even circumventing certain situations. One can even bypass critical parts of the game entirely. Therefore, these barriers (literal and figurative) are intentionally designed and placed to prevent that from happening.
With the game's aesthetics, my criticism of it is that it lacks a sort of serenity or subtlety that the SNES games had. For example, something like Forest Interlude and the haunted forest levels it plays in doesn't appear in this game. This isn't entirely the game's fault, though. Basically, this era of gaming had an issue where you could make 3D games, but there was a certain clunkiness to them both in gameplay and in aesthetics. This is a big part of what killed the Sonic series, actually, as that game heavily relied on a smooth physics engine that wasn't possible to do in 3D at the time.
Lanky Kong:
Style [ ]
Grace [ ]
Funny Face [X]
You're a really great essayist
"Would we even get 2D donkey kong games anymore?"
Are we?
Huh, I never thought about the overuse of switches. It is pretty weird that Banjo got it right when it wasn't that long ago. I wonder if maybe it was a different team? I think they had 2 teams internally working on games.
I think you're right, if this did well we probably would've seen another/more 3D DK games (although I imagine they would do a 2D one eventually as a throwback).
Yeah there were two teams. Other team at the time was making Conker. And Conker team didnt think too highly of DK64 team.
I gotta be honest, i loved DK 64...except for that goddamn beaver minigame.
Lol i didnt even know it was controversial
It’s not a complicated game! It’s one of the best N64 games!…besides a few broken mini games.
Unpopular opinion: DK 64 has always been good and still is.
I love this game so much
"take it to the fridge"?? it's "take it to the bridge" LOL
I made up a game based off of donkey Kong 64
It has more levels more characters and more collec tables and other things I wish dk had
OOOOH BANANA
Im still playing this game today 3/23/2021
Ayyye I was playing on that day too 🤣
@@krusenator123 noice
People being fair to this game is such a strange thing to behold.
It’d be cool to see a DK64 2 that fixes the issues of the first game.
Even if it's not a DK branded game, I can see some kind of spiritual successor giving those refinements a try. The dream is there!
See, most of the problems aimed at this game over the years is about the over-abundance if collectables. Lets be fair here: you don't have to collect everything in the game. Sure, you still have to collect alot, but if you just focus on a few kongs and collect most of their golden and regular bananas, and only collect a few with the others, you'll beat the game no problem. I certainly didn't have much trouble with it as a kid, and I wasn't very patient nor had I a good sense of direction back then.
duke nukem 64 and dk 64 multiplayer modes made my childhood