Who here remembers the good times. I used to buy bundles called 'fat packs'. They would contain a large fully illustrated box, a sleeve that could be opened into a poster, and the style guide for the set. This was in addition to a book and bunch of game items. We truly live in the worse timeline now.
Those were the good old days. I remember buying the fat packs with the novels in each of the Odyssey cycle expansions. Some of my favorite art and stories back then.
I have all the books on my shelf. Read most of them. Might not be the best stories in some cases, but showed the great worlds that WOTC has since disregarded in favor of a deluge of UB.
@@SaltySparrow That's what brings people into the game and keeps them interested. Without the art and lore these might as well be just blank cards that have power, toughness, and cost. I know it's been a long time since then, but there was a time when WotC would use that world building to their advantage and upsell all of us with these beautiful boxes of art and lore (there were also packs in there and some dice and deck boxes). It seem now they don't even want us to get our art and lore from other places which makes me sad for people who didn't get to experience the literal magic in a game called Magic.
Came here just to confirm my opinions. As a long time Magic supporter, I’m feeling like an old loyal dog being chained in the backyard in the winter as I look through the window to see WOTC playing with their new puppy near a crackling fireplace. We’ve been abandoned…
Break that chain and stop giving money to that terrible company. It's really not that hard. I played from 2001-2020. I used to work at a shop as a tournament organizer. Magic was the one constant in my life. This game isn't worth it. Like, the cards you own don't just disappear when you stop buying new ones.
I know the feeling. I was playing and collecting MTG since Ice Age set 1995, for some people like me the TCG is not only the mechanics and play-style that matter, we care about the IP, the lore, the flavor, the cohesive universe and art it was built around. For the past years (since Kamigawa Neon in my opinion) this trend is over, the game turned into a cash grab for corporate greed. There is nothing to care about for players and enthusiastic fans like us. That's why some of us are turning into Flesh and Blood and Sorcery, we want to keep this side of the hobby alive.
Why do you think rk post & others used to sign for free??? There was wotc support. No support? $3-$5 a basic signature now. So.......agreed f them they should be embarrassed. I'd never work them now. Love non-digital art. I love sorcery now. Magic sucks hard.
any company that has a board of director's and is a publicly traded company does everything for their shareholders. everything else is feigned posterity, nothing more. there is no "family" or "community". never has been. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy the game, but honestly people should be able to see beyond corporate speak at this point.
Yes, it's astounding to me how many people by into the "it's a community" story, just because it's their escapism and they found some friends who enjoy the game.
That’s been true for over 30 years, if players had supported the products they felt represented not only the right power but the right mindset things wouldn’t have come to this. Players get what they pay for
WOTC do use "family" and "community" but not how you'd want them to. It's another set of tools they use to manipulate and exploit people into spending more money on their products, just like every other massive company.
I met Giancola at a show last year and he was unbelievably kind and humble. Bought some of his Middle Earth prints for a very reasonable price. So sad that such a talent is being pushed aside because WotC/Hasbro is more concerned with selling out to corporate "IPs" now.
Sadly, they have a lot of addicts, whales, and people that are trying to make money off the product (not like LGS's but people that buy sealed to sit on it). Sometimes things need to crash to get them back on course.
Ask your lgs owners what they have the biggest profit margins on. Usually it's the snacks and drinks. I always buy a round for my pod. (usually to make up for playing Purphoros lmao)
I bought my first Magic cards in 1995, and have been playing continuously since 2003. After the firings in December, though, I stopped buying any sealed product (still buy singles from my LGS at times.) WotC can go take a long walk off a short pier.
Stopped buying after the UB announcements, and I agree, proxying has been the best financial decision I’ve made in ages, both for myself and against wizards.
I’m not even sure you can call it the best game. Power and complexity creep plus endless keyword mechanics instead of improving past mechanics has made it a lot stronger and less fun.
Thank you for sharing this information with your audience and subscribers Mitch. I wish I did not need to bring this to light, but given my place over the past 25+ years as an educator and mentor to so many artists and as a professional connected to the genre so intimately, I needed to stand up and be a voice for my community. I am seeking to maintain an industry so that current and future artists can have a space to be creative and make a modest living. I appreciate the chance and your added bandwidth to open up this dialog.
One of the reasons I have loved MTG for 30ish years is because of the amazing art. Now not only is the art being ruined with UB, but also because they don't care about the artists... So fucking sad... I own a ton of Giancolo's art, and I will treasure it even more now... Especially my Demonic Tutor!!!
The clock is ticking for them. Five years ago my friends and I moved to a digital platform that has all the cards for free. We've been drafting Foundations for 2 weeks. Zero dollars for WotC.
No, it isn't. Companies like Wizards and Games Workshop have been pissing into the faces of their fanbase and employees for years because they know they can and get away with it. The fanbase will bitch and moan but they won't stop buying and playing the game.
I buy singles up to 10$ at my LGS (11.50-12$ w/ markup) when they have what I want, singles 11-19$ from the three digital store owners on eBay that proved they want my business, and I buy 3$-3.50$ bootlegs from The Bootleg Mage of cards 20$ and up. I’m not arguing anymore about Proxies w/ gatekeepers. I’m not defrauding anyone. I’m simply tired of Hasbro greed. There was a time when buying Sealed wasn’t equivalent to setting 55-65% of the money spent on a box on fire. That time is long past. If you’re still capable of being surprised by the awful behavior of Wizards of the Hasbro you just haven’t been paying attention. WotC deserves nothing from you. You needn’t worry about them collapsing, because the majority of MtG players will just keep buying no matter what.
I can't remember how many times I broke even or did better opening a magic box in the 2010s, now though you're incredibly lucky to do that. It didn't really matter, I wasn't selling and rarely traded, it was just curiosity that made me look up the values. There was a time when they had set boosters that gave you some pretty good value. You had a high net zero or better chance on a pack but those are gone, and you're lucky if you don't get just $5 worth of cards in a collector booster. I received such a collector booster, fortunately it was given to me by the LGS because I did a pretty big pre and single order so the salt was minimized. On top of that $5 worth of cards from the pack, 3 of the cards had what was essentially play damage, dented corners and even dents in the middle of the cards. I was thinking about initiating a return with WotC but I'm thinking I'll keep them now bundled together with the torn open pack and put them in a shadow box on my desk as a reminder of wotc's continued slip into garbage quality.
You can only burn so much goodwill before becoming Bethesda or EA. Yes they still make money, but the amount is far less after burning their customers so many times
Been beating the drum that WotC is rotten for years now. "Why are you a hater?" "Who hurt you? Lololol" No one wanted to listen? Well, now you get what you deserve.
Take notes from the likes of Nerdrotic. There is a playbook to bring companies like this to their knees. They will capitulate to the will of the people, but only if they are forced.
THe problem is EVERYONE has to do it. I think the old school players who love the game would, but people who don't care about it won't and will end up keeping WotC in business.
Yea this won’t happen That means literally everyone will have to boycott magic and Wotc which won’t happen, and if that does happen LGS’s will take a massive hit. People online are angry but so many magic players won’t even know about this
"Hidden" is kind of a strong word here, anyone who's been paying attention has known wotc have treated their artists like shit for years. This is one of the big reasons I'm done giving money to those scumbags.
@@tc5589-1 in the earlys it might have seemed like the most efficient System but now it has become what it was originaly supposed to be... The most corrupted most social unequal exploitative and above All the most significantly World destroying System you can imagine. So all in all not a Single Thing you can be thankfull for.
@@tc5589-1capitalism didn’t make the game great, the people behind it did but since they’re no longer involved then we can only blame the people who made it bad and those exact people are the product of extreme capitalism.
Late-stage capitalism in a nutshell: Squeeze a company for all you can before it implodes, not caring about who it screws over so long as shareholders come out on top. No one who made the decisions will see any consequences, only those who enjoy the product and those who MADE THE COMPANY ITS MONEY will suffer. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT trust a publicly traded company to do anything other than try to make its shareholders more money.
Hi comrade, unfortunately capitalism isnt the problem. crappy management is. lots of crappy companies in china that seal your i.p. and resell crappy copies and screw the purchaser.
You acknowledge its a publicly traded company, and yet you call it late stage capitalism. Funny contradiction of terms you got going on there. Still the message of don't ever trust anything socially/group owned is the correct one. Screw all divided ownership. Its always unnatural and exploitative.
This isn't capitalism, it's just the same banks-own-everything usurer oligarchy that killed feudalism, mercantilism and stalinism/maoism. Just like capitalism, all those systems were meant to have checks to prevent this from happening but the checks never worked because people refused to call out the banksters suppressing the system to their benefit, instead of the system itself. This will never change, banksters also own everything in pseudo-communist economies like Laos and social-democratic/mixed economies like Denmark. Only off-grid anarchist communes are free from the banks and only so long as they don't send their government lapdogs take over the land by force.
Get your stuff printed at office depot, pick 12pt paper, its a pretty close fit, feels almost perfect in sleeves, and you can do it all online and just go pick it up.
Mirrodin was my first set. It wasn't until returning to magic that I realized how prolific Donato's art was with my favorite cards. I kept hoping his Kaldra token off modo would be made in paper.
This the final straw for me. The artists are what makes these things more than cardboard game pieces. My wife was shocked to hear the words "maybe I've got enough magic cards", but I don't need to buy products from a company that treats their most important talent this way (on top of everything else they've been doing). I'm still going to play magic, still going to support my lgs, but wizards isn't going to get any more money from me until they have a big management change.
@chomper1329 my lgs has a subscription service, which is meant to allow people to reserve private gaming rooms and get discounts on most products. I bought into the subscription for the first time this month.
Buy from artists, DIRECTLY. Prints and purchasing through big companies like this will NEVER EVER benefit artists. Go to local shows and buy actual art.
It's the same crap they did with DnD when they tried to ban all the OP player made stuff. Look how well it worked out for them. If we all got together and refused to buy any more packs or boxes for a year, it would probably break them. Buying singles is a better idea anyway.
@@louiscali8617 True, but I also want to support my LGS and there are millions and millions of cards out there in circulation already. It's not like people won't be buying and selling mtg cards all over the place. But if we curtail buying "new" product from wizards then it might send the message we are not happy with their management. Come up with a better solution.
seems like standard bussiness practices, not sure why you would be surprised or upset. The system is broken and we as the consumers are allowing it to spiral.
Now that this is happening, they'll ban a few more 'problematic cards' so people will get distracted by how good and moral wotc is to ban 'problematic' cards that no one was complaining about.
I love Magic the Gathering but fucking hell does it feel like Wizards is trying everything they can to grind that love into the dust! Commander is the only format I play anymore and honestly me and my friends have started playing the new One Piece TCG just cause we are all just tired of all the BS coming from Wizards for the last decade it feels like!
Been saying for a while now mtg art has become more digital with each set . I miss the old style art so much . Been collecting vintage cards because of the art
This is just another nail in the coffin for Hasbro. The company has been circling the drain for awhile. The last few years of Brian Goldner's tenure as CEO wasn't great and the spiral has continued since Chris Cocks took over in 2022. Support proxy artists and not Hasbro. In June 2022 Alta Fox Capital Management LLC. which owns a 2.5% stake in Hasbro tried to have WoTC become its own company but was defeated by Hasbro.
I think a lot of these artists that used to work on Magic: The Gathering have already moved on to other Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games like Flesh & Blood and Sorcery: Contested Realm where they aren't as disenfranchised and more appreciated for their work.
I warned everyone when TWD Secret Lair came out and people said I was overreacting about diluting Magic's IP. SMH. That's sad. I've been buying cards with his art since he started painting them
oh wow, wizards becoming poopy, after being taken over by amazon, who could of imagined that would happen, except for everyone who's ever worked in the lower tiers of amazon and everyone who's ever read a story about it
Some things seem...explainable. No reselling of artwork for UB sets may be part of the IP license agreement WotC signed with the IP holders. Fear of these provisions being including in In House IP contracts is borrowing worry from the future, and convicting WotC of Future Crimes. But not raising rates, and the theft of the stuff for the internal style guide is absolutely beyond the pale in terms of being unacceptable.
I wonder if removing the ability to sell your prints is related to agreements with the intellectual rights holder. If so, this is certainly a hidden downside of universe beyond.
they should make a contract where if a universe beyond joins with them, that company and wizards pay 5k each plus possible commission based on secret lair sold
I’ve met lots of wonderful people who work at wizards. Remember when you say “shame on you wizards” you’re painting with a very broad brush. It’s really Hasbro, directing wizards to behave like a shareholder company.
Stopped buying anything from Wizards/Hasbro last year, and have zero intention of ever giving them money again. They're running everything into the ground and keep finding new level of greed to chase.
Maybe we need to have someone start doing some critical reviews of upcoming art. Though sadly it is more subjective, it would still be good the shine a light at this issue as more Universes Beyond comes out. More so if they have some subpar art on them.
It would have been super funny to take the $1000 commission and belt it out in like 5 minutes at minimum quality. I get artists take pride in their work so they won’t, but it would be funny.
Meanwhile, the original arts for the Wolverine Secret Lair, and Storm concept art are being auctioned. I give Mr. Giancola credit for bringing this discussion public, but a bare minimum of investigation would have revealed that the art director for WotC has already addressed one of the biggest complaints, which is creation and sale of traditional art for Universes Beyond sets. Failure to do that means that this is just more ragebait trash, and the Commander's Quarters is filled with it.
Had to give up on WotC! Stopped buying a few years ago due to their blatant Disrespect for Player, Artists and Fans! People need to STOP BUYING THIS GARBAGE!! Just for a year or 2 and your wallet will make them change! But as you continue to buy more they know they can keep getting away with it!! It’s at the point the people who buy are perpetuating the problem now!
I have been buying only from the secondary market for some time now and as long as WotC does not change their ways they will not see another penny from me.
Was starting to look forward to playing standard again with foundations coming out. Played the pre release it was a lot of fun. But man I wish Wizards would focus on turning the game around instead of sales. Focus on game, players, and employees and the money will follow.
Designer here - Style Guides are not the final product, they're supposed to illicit a feeling or vibe to whatever they're aiming to execute. To me, Giancola has every right to be cutting ties but is really misunderstanding the idea. You can't trademark a style, whatever it be 16BIT, Dada, expressionism, or the elements in a cool iron man painting (which is IP adjacent to what it's being made for). Unless they direct printed this, there's really no need for that response. Especially if the piece was done to demonstrate the technique to paint things like it! If anything, the piece is being used as intended. It shows the team liked the style and wants more of it. There's no issue here in the professional design space to me.
Did you miss the part where they used it without his permission? Is that what you do, as a designer? Use other people's art freely? Why does it matter where it was used?
Think the problem is more WotC wouldn't come to an agreement with him so they handed out his art as a style guide to get something like his after cutting ties with him.
@thelunchlady8276 because there is no profit made at the style guide level hence no "use." You're allowed to show works of art as inspiration, you're not allowed to print copies of the inspired work.
@@shiningotter2033 So, you can take and use my work whenever you want, as long as you don't profit from it? Makes sense to me! And, I believe, copies were printed, in the guide, as an example.
This is so sad that WOTC has just been going down hill in the worst way. I'm so happy I've stopped buying boxes. Maybe a couple singles but lately NOT MUCH. It's saving my pocketbook 😉😢
What do you mean doing far better ? Mtg is by FAR the cash cow these days, and dnd has its own problem, with each new release DELETING ressources from previous book release.
Good day, you might check back up on the last controversy of DnD, which was about to ruin the game as is...wasn't even too long ago. Namely, trying to revoke the ability for people to write and sell homebrew scenarios for DnD.
Dnd is doing badly both in terms of profits and constroversy. Although with new-edition dropping, they probably will report decent sales through dnd beyond. But its inherently not revenue-sustainable. People dont need to buy new dnd stuff like they do with mtg. Aside from the new-ed infusion of cash, mtg has been propping up other hasbro subsidiaries for a while. Thats why mtg is partnering IPs and creating wild power creep, to increase revenue at an increasing rate.
Not defending WotC or Hasbro, and it's not like they can't afford to pay artists fairly for their work... My question is: using the Iron Man painting internally for a guide reference, does that necessitate a licensing fee? Giancola didn't make it for WotC, but they're also not printing the painting to cards or marketing materials (afaik). If they're using this as a "we want the art to look like this", is that any different than referencing Gogh or Rembrandt? Again, it's not like WotC can't afford to pay artists, but I find this part of the article odd.
Thanks for sharing this. Honestly baffled at how wotc treats their artists. Id just assumed due to the art's quality and the amount of money they make they must pay them well but I guess if you have any positive expectations of wotc you'll quickly be proven wrong
Its not rage bait if it's real and has an actual tangible effect on the lives of people. Rage bait would be if it was false or misrepresented the facts. Speaking about an issue in real life that actually affects people is called journalism, and it's up to you to decide how to interpret these facts
That's the thing- they don't care. They just act like they do as an overcompensation and because weirdos who actively enable the behavior and policies they like have wormed their way into the company.
Who would have thought that the company that's been trying to erase the wrongs of history with cardboard would also try to erase their own wrong doings. Im talking about their pussy footed banning of slightly offensive cards years back ofc
After they cut ties with Terese Nielsen, my respect for the company and interest in the game declined rapidly. The company has been ran by awful people who make the worst decisions for some time.
Not sure I agree on the style guide thing. That's a internal document that shows what they want from a brand standpoint. They are going to use past examples to show what they need going forward or even examples in the industry of what they want to see. It really is going to depend on the contract, but I'm going to side with WOTC on this one. That's a internal document, not a external one.
I only proxy magic cards i support my local buying deck boxes sleeves and one piece tcg cards i am not supporting wizards they have even started to slow down on the amount of wizards products they sell. Its bad when a store dont even want to support them.
Don’t buy singles either. That incentivizes sellers to purchase the sealed products from wotc. Proxy everything (at least everything from sets/products you don’t want to support) or accept that you’re still contributing to the wotc money flow.
Well, after certain lady left her position I thought "awesome, good things are coming".... But after a couple of months and as I see things getting worst I realized that as long as Hasbro is still Hasbro we will only continue getting Ls over and over, and MTG will simply continue dissapointing us until the game we love is no more...
We all need to stop buying MTG cards for like 6 months, still play at your local store but do not buy sealed products. A general strike, they will only listen if the money stops rolling in.
For all of you guys disappointed in Wizards and Magic there's a new TCG called Sorcery: Contested Realm that really caters to the players rather than corporatism. I think it's got potential to be the new face of TCGs.
Literally TCG content creators every day: Man this company did another bad thing.......... Okay so info about this newest set coming out next year seems to have some cool bangers
There are a bunch of problems being exposed here, but I’m not sure that the Iron Man image is one of the problems. Any official art from Disney/Marvel would be fair to use in an internal document. Even if that’s true that the Iron Man painting isn’t violating anyone’s rights specifically, it doesn’t excuse the mistreatment of artists.
Did you not watch the video? It’s not official work. It wasn’t commissioned or sold so the absolute most they marvel can do is issue a cease and desist for something he’s already ceased.
Who here remembers the good times. I used to buy bundles called 'fat packs'. They would contain a large fully illustrated box, a sleeve that could be opened into a poster, and the style guide for the set. This was in addition to a book and bunch of game items. We truly live in the worse timeline now.
Those were the good old days. I remember buying the fat packs with the novels in each of the Odyssey cycle expansions. Some of my favorite art and stories back then.
I have all the books on my shelf. Read most of them. Might not be the best stories in some cases, but showed the great worlds that WOTC has since disregarded in favor of a deluge of UB.
Why pay someone to write a book and lore?
@@SaltySparrow That's what brings people into the game and keeps them interested. Without the art and lore these might as well be just blank cards that have power, toughness, and cost. I know it's been a long time since then, but there was a time when WotC would use that world building to their advantage and upsell all of us with these beautiful boxes of art and lore (there were also packs in there and some dice and deck boxes). It seem now they don't even want us to get our art and lore from other places which makes me sad for people who didn't get to experience the literal magic in a game called Magic.
I miss the fat packs so badly. I own most of the books that came out. My collection started with ice age block fat pack.
Came here just to confirm my opinions.
As a long time Magic supporter, I’m feeling like an old loyal dog being chained in the backyard in the winter as I look through the window to see WOTC playing with their new puppy near a crackling fireplace.
We’ve been abandoned…
Been playing since 2001, I also feel like this.
Stop buying from them. It’s easy to stop caring about their businesses practices if you start making proxies
Break that chain and stop giving money to that terrible company. It's really not that hard. I played from 2001-2020. I used to work at a shop as a tournament organizer. Magic was the one constant in my life. This game isn't worth it. Like, the cards you own don't just disappear when you stop buying new ones.
I know the feeling. I was playing and collecting MTG since Ice Age set 1995, for some people like me the TCG is not only the mechanics and play-style that matter, we care about the IP, the lore, the flavor, the cohesive universe and art it was built around. For the past years (since Kamigawa Neon in my opinion) this trend is over, the game turned into a cash grab for corporate greed. There is nothing to care about for players and enthusiastic fans like us. That's why some of us are turning into Flesh and Blood and Sorcery, we want to keep this side of the hobby alive.
What the absolute fuck do you mean that there's no royalties for magic artists.
Why do you think rk post & others used to sign for free??? There was wotc support. No support? $3-$5 a basic signature now. So.......agreed f them they should be embarrassed. I'd never work them now. Love non-digital art. I love sorcery now. Magic sucks hard.
any company that has a board of director's and is a publicly traded company does everything for their shareholders. everything else is feigned posterity, nothing more.
there is no "family" or "community". never has been.
It doesn't mean you can't enjoy the game, but honestly people should be able to see beyond corporate speak at this point.
Yes, it's astounding to me how many people by into the "it's a community" story, just because it's their escapism and they found some friends who enjoy the game.
That’s been true for over 30 years, if players had supported the products they felt represented not only the right power but the right mindset things wouldn’t have come to this. Players get what they pay for
Well put.
WOTC do use "family" and "community" but not how you'd want them to. It's another set of tools they use to manipulate and exploit people into spending more money on their products, just like every other massive company.
This
Oh boy what now😮💨
Update: Yah its always the artists that get screwed over first
I met Giancola at a show last year and he was unbelievably kind and humble. Bought some of his Middle Earth prints for a very reasonable price. So sad that such a talent is being pushed aside because WotC/Hasbro is more concerned with selling out to corporate "IPs" now.
You got lucky...
Just stop buying from wizards people. I proxy my cards now. But still support my game store
Sadly, they have a lot of addicts, whales, and people that are trying to make money off the product (not like LGS's but people that buy sealed to sit on it).
Sometimes things need to crash to get them back on course.
Ask your lgs owners what they have the biggest profit margins on. Usually it's the snacks and drinks. I always buy a round for my pod. (usually to make up for playing Purphoros lmao)
I bought my first Magic cards in 1995, and have been playing continuously since 2003. After the firings in December, though, I stopped buying any sealed product (still buy singles from my LGS at times.) WotC can go take a long walk off a short pier.
I’m actually excited to proxy my own custom cards. Totally agree with everything said.
Stopped buying after the UB announcements, and I agree, proxying has been the best financial decision I’ve made in ages, both for myself and against wizards.
Best game, worst company.
UB will kill the "best game" moniker soon enough. It'll be the worst game and worst company once they get fully away from their own IP.
@ No, it won’t.
I’m not even sure you can call it the best game. Power and complexity creep plus endless keyword mechanics instead of improving past mechanics has made it a lot stronger and less fun.
Both are worst. The game is full of broken cards and silly over power creep mechanics.
@ are you new here? It’s been that way since the beginning and will never change.
Thank you for sharing this information with your audience and subscribers Mitch. I wish I did not need to bring this to light, but given my place over the past 25+ years as an educator and mentor to so many artists and as a professional connected to the genre so intimately, I needed to stand up and be a voice for my community. I am seeking to maintain an industry so that current and future artists can have a space to be creative and make a modest living.
I appreciate the chance and your added bandwidth to open up this dialog.
I love collecting art cards from the amazing MTG artists but I want the artist's to be compensated properly for their beautiful work.
Look up for Flesh and Blood, and also Sorcery. Amazing old school style TCGs.
It’s also funny and sad that his work for Karlov manor (the set in which his art was stolen) was for the card “caught red-handed”
The problem with Universes Beyond is that it's someone else's IP. Wizards didn't pay the copyright for the artists to sell their own proofs.
Doesnt change the outcome any.
WotC has already acquired the rights to use their product, why couldn't they use their own artists under original contracts at that point?
One of the reasons I have loved MTG for 30ish years is because of the amazing art. Now not only is the art being ruined with UB, but also because they don't care about the artists... So fucking sad... I own a ton of Giancolo's art, and I will treasure it even more now... Especially my Demonic Tutor!!!
Yet they still churn profits every quarter from the ones who have made this “game” a stock portfolio/NFT scam equivalent.
Well ultimately for all those scams a significant portion were left holding the costs of the minorities profits. Mtg will just be another for the pile
The clock is ticking for them. Five years ago my friends and I moved to a digital platform that has all the cards for free. We've been drafting Foundations for 2 weeks. Zero dollars for WotC.
This is how you kill a game ..
No, it isn't. Companies like Wizards and Games Workshop have been pissing into the faces of their fanbase and employees for years because they know they can and get away with it. The fanbase will bitch and moan but they won't stop buying and playing the game.
@HarryBuddhaPalm if the game quality suffers to a point, people will stop buying it
I buy singles up to 10$ at my LGS (11.50-12$ w/ markup) when they have what I want, singles 11-19$ from the three digital store owners on eBay that proved they want my business, and I buy 3$-3.50$ bootlegs from The Bootleg Mage of cards 20$ and up.
I’m not arguing anymore about Proxies w/ gatekeepers. I’m not defrauding anyone. I’m simply tired of Hasbro greed.
There was a time when buying Sealed wasn’t equivalent to setting 55-65% of the money spent on a box on fire. That time is long past.
If you’re still capable of being surprised by the awful behavior of Wizards of the Hasbro you just haven’t been paying attention.
WotC deserves nothing from you. You needn’t worry about them collapsing, because the majority of MtG players will just keep buying no matter what.
I can't remember how many times I broke even or did better opening a magic box in the 2010s, now though you're incredibly lucky to do that. It didn't really matter, I wasn't selling and rarely traded, it was just curiosity that made me look up the values.
There was a time when they had set boosters that gave you some pretty good value. You had a high net zero or better chance on a pack but those are gone, and you're lucky if you don't get just $5 worth of cards in a collector booster. I received such a collector booster, fortunately it was given to me by the LGS because I did a pretty big pre and single order so the salt was minimized. On top of that $5 worth of cards from the pack, 3 of the cards had what was essentially play damage, dented corners and even dents in the middle of the cards.
I was thinking about initiating a return with WotC but I'm thinking I'll keep them now bundled together with the torn open pack and put them in a shadow box on my desk as a reminder of wotc's continued slip into garbage quality.
You can only burn so much goodwill before becoming Bethesda or EA. Yes they still make money, but the amount is far less after burning their customers so many times
Been beating the drum that WotC is rotten for years now.
"Why are you a hater?" "Who hurt you? Lololol"
No one wanted to listen? Well, now you get what you deserve.
Ask yourself why artists agree to the predatory contracts and you'll start to understand why none of this is going to amount to anything.
Take notes from the likes of Nerdrotic. There is a playbook to bring companies like this to their knees. They will capitulate to the will of the people, but only if they are forced.
THe problem is EVERYONE has to do it. I think the old school players who love the game would, but people who don't care about it won't and will end up keeping WotC in business.
Good luck with that.
Yea this won’t happen
That means literally everyone will have to boycott magic and Wotc which won’t happen, and if that does happen LGS’s will take a massive hit.
People online are angry but so many magic players won’t even know about this
Contrary to what naysayers may claim, you don't need everyone. You just need enough people to make a dent in their bottom line.
The other problem with boycott (if you could even get it to happen) is the fist to suffer are small lgs owners
"Hidden" is kind of a strong word here, anyone who's been paying attention has known wotc have treated their artists like shit for years. This is one of the big reasons I'm done giving money to those scumbags.
Chris cox and hasbro ruined magic. Runaway capitalism destroys everything
Profit over people mentality. Enough is literally never enough for these greedy companies. Just standard late stage capitalism.
Profits for the riches, losses for the folks as usual. Everything gets ruined by capitalism even the little beautiful Things we've left in life.
Blaming capitalism for this but not thanking it for the more than 30 years of continuous product and high average quality is asinine.
@@tc5589-1 in the earlys it might have seemed like the most efficient System but now it has become what it was originaly supposed to be... The most corrupted most social unequal exploitative and above All the most significantly World destroying System you can imagine. So all in all not a Single Thing you can be thankfull for.
@@tc5589-1capitalism didn’t make the game great, the people behind it did but since they’re no longer involved then we can only blame the people who made it bad and those exact people are the product of extreme capitalism.
Late-stage capitalism in a nutshell: Squeeze a company for all you can before it implodes, not caring about who it screws over so long as shareholders come out on top. No one who made the decisions will see any consequences, only those who enjoy the product and those who MADE THE COMPANY ITS MONEY will suffer.
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT trust a publicly traded company to do anything other than try to make its shareholders more money.
Hi comrade, unfortunately capitalism isnt the problem. crappy management is. lots of crappy companies in china that seal your i.p. and resell crappy copies and screw the purchaser.
You acknowledge its a publicly traded company, and yet you call it late stage capitalism. Funny contradiction of terms you got going on there.
Still the message of don't ever trust anything socially/group owned is the correct one. Screw all divided ownership. Its always unnatural and exploitative.
This isn't capitalism, it's just the same banks-own-everything usurer oligarchy that killed feudalism, mercantilism and stalinism/maoism.
Just like capitalism, all those systems were meant to have checks to prevent this from happening but the checks never worked because people refused to call out the banksters suppressing the system to their benefit, instead of the system itself.
This will never change, banksters also own everything in pseudo-communist economies like Laos and social-democratic/mixed economies like Denmark. Only off-grid anarchist communes are free from the banks and only so long as they don't send their government lapdogs take over the land by force.
@@Stroggoii Of that we agree. we havn't had free markets since brenton woods
Corporatism, not capitalism
Get your stuff printed at office depot, pick 12pt paper, its a pretty close fit, feels almost perfect in sleeves, and you can do it all online and just go pick it up.
Mirrodin was my first set. It wasn't until returning to magic that I realized how prolific Donato's art was with my favorite cards. I kept hoping his Kaldra token off modo would be made in paper.
This the final straw for me. The artists are what makes these things more than cardboard game pieces. My wife was shocked to hear the words "maybe I've got enough magic cards", but I don't need to buy products from a company that treats their most important talent this way (on top of everything else they've been doing). I'm still going to play magic, still going to support my lgs, but wizards isn't going to get any more money from me until they have a big management change.
but by supporting your LGS.... you're supporting WotC, unless you are buying other products and out of print products.
@chomper1329 my lgs has a subscription service, which is meant to allow people to reserve private gaming rooms and get discounts on most products. I bought into the subscription for the first time this month.
@@chomper1329 I'm sure Coca-Cola gives my LGS a bigger slice of the pie for sales made than WotC.
Common sense. Disney is a shit company too. Had a friend work in the art department and they were not organized
I’m leaning more and more for proxies and just collecting vintage cards and reserve list for the art. That’s it
This is the way
Proxies are the only way many players will ever see the great artwork on $100 cards
Buy from artists, DIRECTLY. Prints and purchasing through big companies like this will NEVER EVER benefit artists. Go to local shows and buy actual art.
It's the same crap they did with DnD when they tried to ban all the OP player made stuff. Look how well it worked out for them. If we all got together and refused to buy any more packs or boxes for a year, it would probably break them. Buying singles is a better idea anyway.
Buying singles means someone bought packs and cracked them.
Don’t buy single.
Just don’t buy.
Proxy.
you'd have to buy singles from sets that had been printed, and out of print, before the boycott, otherwise you're still second hand giving them money.
@@louiscali8617 True, but I also want to support my LGS and there are millions and millions of cards out there in circulation already. It's not like people won't be buying and selling mtg cards all over the place. But if we curtail buying "new" product from wizards then it might send the message we are not happy with their management. Come up with a better solution.
seems like standard bussiness practices, not sure why you would be surprised or upset. The system is broken and we as the consumers are allowing it to spiral.
There is now an even more special place in my heart for my signed Promo sword of kaldra. That prerelease was a kid’s dream come true.
Now that this is happening, they'll ban a few more 'problematic cards' so people will get distracted by how good and moral wotc is to ban 'problematic' cards that no one was complaining about.
I love Magic the Gathering but fucking hell does it feel like Wizards is trying everything they can to grind that love into the dust! Commander is the only format I play anymore and honestly me and my friends have started playing the new One Piece TCG just cause we are all just tired of all the BS coming from Wizards for the last decade it feels like!
They ARE trying to grind it into dust. And snort it. I said it. Fuckers are feinds.
Been saying for a while now mtg art has become more digital with each set . I miss the old style art so much . Been collecting vintage cards because of the art
Amazing to think such talented artists with huge outreach are paid such ridiculous fees...
This is just another nail in the coffin for Hasbro. The company has been circling the drain for awhile. The last few years of Brian Goldner's tenure as CEO wasn't great and the spiral has continued since Chris Cocks took over in 2022. Support proxy artists and not Hasbro. In June 2022 Alta Fox Capital Management LLC. which owns a 2.5% stake in Hasbro tried to have WoTC become its own company but was defeated by Hasbro.
is it mobile or nailed tho? You said a nail in the coffin but now they're circling the drain. so confused.
@chomper1329 Do you not know metaphors to describe a failing company or are you just stupid?
I think a lot of these artists that used to work on Magic: The Gathering have already moved on to other Paper Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games like Flesh & Blood and Sorcery: Contested Realm where they aren't as disenfranchised and more appreciated for their work.
I warned everyone when TWD Secret Lair came out and people said I was overreacting about diluting Magic's IP.
SMH. That's sad. I've been buying cards with his art since he started painting them
oh wow, wizards becoming poopy, after being taken over by amazon, who could of imagined that would happen, except for everyone who's ever worked in the lower tiers of amazon and everyone who's ever read a story about it
Some things seem...explainable. No reselling of artwork for UB sets may be part of the IP license agreement WotC signed with the IP holders. Fear of these provisions being including in In House IP contracts is borrowing worry from the future, and convicting WotC of Future Crimes.
But not raising rates, and the theft of the stuff for the internal style guide is absolutely beyond the pale in terms of being unacceptable.
I wonder if removing the ability to sell your prints is related to agreements with the intellectual rights holder. If so, this is certainly a hidden downside of universe beyond.
they should make a contract where if a universe beyond joins with them, that company and wizards pay 5k each plus possible commission based on secret lair sold
So. Cool Budget Decks aren't a thing on this channel anymore, huh?
Nah just rage bait and crying
I’ve met lots of wonderful people who work at wizards. Remember when you say “shame on you wizards” you’re painting with a very broad brush. It’s really Hasbro, directing wizards to behave like a shareholder company.
Everyone should consider looking into Sorcery contested realm it is an amazing game
Now I understand why I can't get a print from Alice X. Zhang's Ecstatic Beauty and why no inquiries on the matter have been returned. Disgusting
Stopped buying anything from Wizards/Hasbro last year, and have zero intention of ever giving them money again. They're running everything into the ground and keep finding new level of greed to chase.
Thanks for this, Mitch. Keep fighting the good fight!
Maybe we need to have someone start doing some critical reviews of upcoming art. Though sadly it is more subjective, it would still be good the shine a light at this issue as more Universes Beyond comes out. More so if they have some subpar art on them.
It would have been super funny to take the $1000 commission and belt it out in like 5 minutes at minimum quality. I get artists take pride in their work so they won’t, but it would be funny.
Meanwhile, the original arts for the Wolverine Secret Lair, and Storm concept art are being auctioned.
I give Mr. Giancola credit for bringing this discussion public, but a bare minimum of investigation would have revealed that the art director for WotC has already addressed one of the biggest complaints, which is creation and sale of traditional art for Universes Beyond sets.
Failure to do that means that this is just more ragebait trash, and the Commander's Quarters is filled with it.
the amount of money wizards makes off these cards, this is disgusting.
Had to give up on WotC!
Stopped buying a few years ago due to their blatant Disrespect for Player, Artists and Fans!
People need to STOP BUYING THIS GARBAGE!! Just for a year or 2 and your wallet will make them change!
But as you continue to buy more they know they can keep getting away with it!!
It’s at the point the people who buy are perpetuating the problem now!
Art isn't valued anymore. It is taken for granted.
I have been buying only from the secondary market for some time now and as long as WotC does not change their ways they will not see another penny from me.
Was starting to look forward to playing standard again with foundations coming out.
Played the pre release it was a lot of fun.
But man I wish Wizards would focus on turning the game around instead of sales.
Focus on game, players, and employees and the money will follow.
Designer here - Style Guides are not the final product, they're supposed to illicit a feeling or vibe to whatever they're aiming to execute. To me, Giancola has every right to be cutting ties but is really misunderstanding the idea. You can't trademark a style, whatever it be 16BIT, Dada, expressionism, or the elements in a cool iron man painting (which is IP adjacent to what it's being made for).
Unless they direct printed this, there's really no need for that response. Especially if the piece was done to demonstrate the technique to paint things like it! If anything, the piece is being used as intended. It shows the team liked the style and wants more of it. There's no issue here in the professional design space to me.
Did you miss the part where they used it without his permission? Is that what you do, as a designer? Use other people's art freely? Why does it matter where it was used?
Think the problem is more WotC wouldn't come to an agreement with him so they handed out his art as a style guide to get something like his after cutting ties with him.
@thelunchlady8276 because there is no profit made at the style guide level hence no "use." You're allowed to show works of art as inspiration, you're not allowed to print copies of the inspired work.
@@shiningotter2033 So, you can take and use my work whenever you want, as long as you don't profit from it? Makes sense to me! And, I believe, copies were printed, in the guide, as an example.
This is so sad that WOTC has just been going down hill in the worst way. I'm so happy I've stopped buying boxes. Maybe a couple singles but lately NOT MUCH. It's saving my pocketbook 😉😢
guess I'll have to chat with my playgroup about proxying 99% of my new decks. Wizards REALLY hate fair business and supporting artists...
Weird how the same company's, Wizards of the coast, dnd department is doing far better than the mtg department
Vastly different
What do you mean doing far better ? Mtg is by FAR the cash cow these days, and dnd has its own problem, with each new release DELETING ressources from previous book release.
@akaikiseki9346 has dnd gotten this much backlash?
Mtg has taken L's for recently
Good day, you might check back up on the last controversy of DnD, which was about to ruin the game as is...wasn't even too long ago.
Namely, trying to revoke the ability for people to write and sell homebrew scenarios for DnD.
@neros_soren dnd tends to apologize and reverse their decisions
Unlike mtg wizards
Dnd is doing badly both in terms of profits and constroversy.
Although with new-edition dropping, they probably will report decent sales through dnd beyond. But its inherently not revenue-sustainable. People dont need to buy new dnd stuff like they do with mtg.
Aside from the new-ed infusion of cash, mtg has been propping up other hasbro subsidiaries for a while.
Thats why mtg is partnering IPs and creating wild power creep, to increase revenue at an increasing rate.
He did Soulless Jailer? How fitting given the circumstances
You know what they say, "Hasbro posts another loss, Wizards gets a new UB set" 😂
Not defending WotC or Hasbro, and it's not like they can't afford to pay artists fairly for their work...
My question is: using the Iron Man painting internally for a guide reference, does that necessitate a licensing fee? Giancola didn't make it for WotC, but they're also not printing the painting to cards or marketing materials (afaik).
If they're using this as a "we want the art to look like this", is that any different than referencing Gogh or Rembrandt?
Again, it's not like WotC can't afford to pay artists, but I find this part of the article odd.
" is that any different than referencing Gogh or Rembrandt?"
Gogh and Rembrandt are dead and their art is Public Domain.
Thanks for sharing this. Honestly baffled at how wotc treats their artists. Id just assumed due to the art's quality and the amount of money they make they must pay them well but I guess if you have any positive expectations of wotc you'll quickly be proven wrong
It's such a shame to just be getting into this game in the year where it seems all the problems are being brought into the light. :(
This transition to Rage-bait is as unbecoming as webslingers in Magic :/
Its not rage bait if it's real and has an actual tangible effect on the lives of people. Rage bait would be if it was false or misrepresented the facts. Speaking about an issue in real life that actually affects people is called journalism, and it's up to you to decide how to interpret these facts
Proxy boycott? Proxy boycott.
That's the thing- they don't care. They just act like they do as an overcompensation and because weirdos who actively enable the behavior and policies they like have wormed their way into the company.
Tried to wipe my tears with my MTG cards, but I quitted long time ago, so I have none.
“Quitted”
On a side note, "quitted" isn't a real word. The past tense of "quit" is oddly, just "quit".
And don't forget that Pinkerton episode.
From the perspective of a D&D player in similar circumstances, to my MtG friends on the other side of the LGS:
There are other games, friends.
Or proxy and simply ignore the company. Dnd source books don't have to be where you get your info
Cool when are you going make budget decks again?
Who would have thought that the company that's been trying to erase the wrongs of history with cardboard would also try to erase their own wrong doings. Im talking about their pussy footed banning of slightly offensive cards years back ofc
Here's hoping he can find work with LSS or Bandai his art is incredible and more people deserve a chance to own cards with his touch
After they cut ties with Terese Nielsen, my respect for the company and interest in the game declined rapidly. The company has been ran by awful people who make the worst decisions for some time.
My form of protest is with my wallet and time. I'm now playing Flesh and Blood for the past year. Sorcery seems pretty good as well.
Not sure I agree on the style guide thing. That's a internal document that shows what they want from a brand standpoint. They are going to use past examples to show what they need going forward or even examples in the industry of what they want to see. It really is going to depend on the contract, but I'm going to side with WOTC on this one. That's a internal document, not a external one.
I only proxy magic cards i support my local buying deck boxes sleeves and one piece tcg cards i am not supporting wizards they have even started to slow down on the amount of wizards products they sell. Its bad when a store dont even want to support them.
Thanks for covering this
Wizards, man. Buy singles and proxy the rest. But there has to be good way to help keep LGS's running.
LGS's are just as bad. You might as well just proxy everything.
Don’t buy singles either. That incentivizes sellers to purchase the sealed products from wotc. Proxy everything (at least everything from sets/products you don’t want to support) or accept that you’re still contributing to the wotc money flow.
Hasbro acquiring WotC has been the worst thing for MTG ever..
Well, after certain lady left her position I thought "awesome, good things are coming".... But after a couple of months and as I see things getting worst I realized that as long as Hasbro is still Hasbro we will only continue getting Ls over and over, and MTG will simply continue dissapointing us until the game we love is no more...
Im shocked that some people are shocked.
would rather buy etsy proxies than wizard packs... gonna stick to singles and proxies for now on
We all need to stop buying MTG cards for like 6 months, still play at your local store but do not buy sealed products. A general strike, they will only listen if the money stops rolling in.
I quit after All Will Be One, I saw the writing on the wall. No regrets
I remember being young and liking WotC as a company :)
When the old CEO of Hasbro died just before the pandemic the writing was on the wall. It's gotten worse and worse since.
For all of you guys disappointed in Wizards and Magic there's a new TCG called Sorcery: Contested Realm that really caters to the players rather than corporatism. I think it's got potential to be the new face of TCGs.
Who would have thought 🤯
I've started playing around 2004. Next year I will stop buying product. I even started selling a lot of my cards and buying proxies.
Literally TCG content creators every day: Man this company did another bad thing.......... Okay so info about this newest set coming out next year seems to have some cool bangers
GOD FORBID THEY PRINT ANYTHING BUT MONEY!!!
Cheaterws win tournaments? The arena shuffler's broken? Oh, THAT shameful thing.
Is it legal for us to crowd fund Giancola to make art for proxies? I'm sure we can get him more than $1k per art piece.
There are a bunch of problems being exposed here, but I’m not sure that the Iron Man image is one of the problems. Any official art from Disney/Marvel would be fair to use in an internal document. Even if that’s true that the Iron Man painting isn’t violating anyone’s rights specifically, it doesn’t excuse the mistreatment of artists.
Did you not watch the video? It’s not official work. It wasn’t commissioned or sold so the absolute most they marvel can do is issue a cease and desist for something he’s already ceased.
Not really true though? Magali just sold the Storm painting for Marvel Secret Lair. Physical and all.
At this rate WotC's implosion only seems a matter of time. Maybe it's about time to cash in on my collection?