Hey Datto! I’m a guardian from 4 years in the future. Unfortunately the “one shot meta” is still here, but at least we no longer have double primaries.
Hello dear player, I'm a guardian from 1 year into the future from your timeline. Atm the crucible is filled with bs special weapons and freezing habilities.
Trials and IB are defined exclusively by 3 weapons - Thorn / TLW / Felwinter shotguns. Depending on the map sniper is just as competitive as them, but a majority of the time due to Bungie's map balancing this isn't the case. I would understand if they at least acknowledged they were monitoring the PvP metagame in a weekly update or something, but we've gotten nothing in 4+ months. Lots of people will claim "balancing takes time" but 4 months is unacceptable considering it took them less than 2 to nerf autos and buff pulse / scout rifles. Thorn and TLW do every gun archetype's job better at every range while felwinter clones can quite literally instakill people across most corridor rooms in most maps. When the requirement to stay fully competitive is limited to 3 weapons a majority of the time, something is quite obviously wrong with it. Bungie pls.
The hilarious thing about seeing this in my feed in 2020 is how many times I’ve seen people in the past few years say “Can we just go back to House of Wolves?” Lol people have super short memories in the Destiny community.
Don't think people want Last Word and Thorn 2 tapping. Everything felt much better in House of Wolves. Lack of bloom, accuracy and everything felt great. The legendary weapons for the most part were all balanced well against each other. Primaries dominated because of how consistent and good they felt. Aside from Last Word 2 tapping, Thorn 2 tapping, Final round snipers, Shot package shotguns; House of Wolves was one of the best times in Destiny's pvp history. But even with all of that stuff, the meta was pretty diverse and there were a lot of options available.
I’ve personally never heard someone say that. The only thing I’ve heard are people saying that they either want to go back to the Taken King or the beta and early launch days of D1.
I'm glad the community is talking about this. I love Destiny PvP, but I get crucified for bringing it up on my channel or on the Planet Destiny stream. Either introduce a non-exotic game type version of control/clash/all game modes or max all primary weapons at a 3+ head shot value. The messenger and red death 2 burst headshot variants are also an issue that will need to be looked at imo. Good on you for bringing up an issue.
I don't think Pulse Rifles are as much of a problem because they require a lot of skill to get those 2 burst kills and their Rates of Fire are slower. The problem with Hand Cannons right now is that they're too easy to use IMO (plus Thorn and tLW are OP, but that was addressed in the video). My simple solution: Hand Cannons in general could use a Target Aquisition and Recoil nerf to make them harder to use, not a damage nerf. Last Word needs a significant range nerf and needs a bug fix. Thorn would benefit from a Rate of Fire nerf (I'd put it at 18 or 19 rather than 35) to reduce the kill time, but remain a 2 headshot kill (it would be pretty terrible otherwise), and needs a noticeable range nerf to bring it in line with other Hand Cannons. Hawkmoon also needs a range nerf, but due to the RNG factor for the non-guaranteed 2 headshot kill (and the occasional 1 headshot kill) and the slower Rate of Fire I don't think it needs a damage nerf since it's much more ballanced than the other two.
I agree with everything in terms of nerfing what is IMO ruining PvP. Thorn, Last Word & the range on shotguns all need sorting out, I would agree blink shotgunning is an issue too which won't be effected by a range nerf or even a shot package removal. I mean the initial blink brings them close enough to 90% of the time allow them to one hit you but like you say if they dont one hit you, the melee that follows will kill you! Only thing I can see working with blink is if they apply a time delay after the initial blink for you to shoot your weapon giving the person on the defence from this blink time to react! Hopefully Bungie are watching & listening so they sort the mess what PvP is out! Great video Datto!
I have no problem with TLW cause you have to get close for it to be good. Thorn on the other hand can be shot across the map and kill you in 2 or 3 shots
Oki_Dingo Guys I found the scrub. Did you really just say you have to be close with TLW for it to be good? Dude, I've been using TLW for 2 days (I'm more of a pulse/auto rifle guy) and I could probably make you a montage of long distance kills I've pulled off against pulse rifles and snipers. The thing has THREE stability upgrades and bonus damage. I'm sorry, but if you HAVE to be close to be effective with TLW, your gun skill is buns.
***** "Whence" already means "from where", so you just said "from from where". Do not try to use fancy-sounding words without actually knowing how to properly use them.
I really don't understand why they can nerf the shit out of auto rifles so much that everyone who used them was forced to find something else but they can't do the same to hand cannons and shotguns which are far worse than auto rifles ever were
tarheelfan407 hand cannons in general are not OP, the legendary ones like red hand or fulcrum are very balanced just the exotic ones that need a nerf imo
tarheelfan407 I think they originally nerfed them as they were too easy to use. They need to buff them again, but so they don't vastly outclass a weapon type.
Av3rage_Gamer A headshot from thorn does more than hawkmoon with a lucky bullet. Hawkmoon is alright it can be countered alot easier the counter than thorn or last word.
Well spoken. I would love to see all range perks removed from shotguns, force people to get closer for them to be lethal. Final round should simply be removed from the pool of perks on ALL snipers, you shouldn't be rewarded with a "powered up" shot for dumping two bullets into the ground. Thorn needs a range adjustment, and the mark of the devourer's effect needs changing ( maybe make it similar to Hawkmoon where only 2 or 3 shots in the weapon could proc the tick damage, and also drop it to 5dmg per tick ) Plenty of other small gripes, but if these were addressed, PVP would be a better place for everyone.
Something I don't see people talk about is crucible drops. Could some you tuber talk about that or complain. Why should a person be able to get an exotic just from playing a crucible match. I always see the bottom player getting a Gjallarhorn. I'm not saying it shouldn't be that the bottom player shouldn't get just as many rewards as the bottom player as long as the player is trying. It is like a nightfall you get rewards for participation. But if exotics are the best of the best weapons then why should you be able to get them from an 8-12 minute game of crucible.
Maybe the only way to resolve all these issues is to give different weapon categories a buff every month. Which is essentially what they've been doing with these patches. This way by the time people start throwing their controllers after losing to a specific weapon that weapon's advantage will no longer exist.
***** I know it sounds ridiculous but thats what everyone's asking for. There will always be a Meta. There will always be complaints. So to keep people happy they just have to juggle the meta around frequently. After Thorn gets nerfed, Pulse Rifles will be overused and nerfed in turn.
Billy Nahar What's up Buddy! How are you doing? Datto is spot on. A ton of people feel this way. All I want from Bungie in acknowledgement. Not. One. Word. From them.
CoolGuy I'm good thanks dude! I agree with both of you on this issue, having used the exotic hand cannons this week in Iron Banner, I cannot believe how stupid the range is on all of them. I have been out gunning Mida Multi Tools, which is just stupid. Enjoyed the new scout rifle video, keep em coming!
Maybe for the thorn burn, I think right now it has 5 ticks of 7, but what if they made it so, if your recovery is at a certain point, you can regen health a bit in between, making an extra shot nessecary to kill. That way then it becomes a thing of player choice whether to build the load out with a counter to thorn in mind or not
What about just the crucible in general? How do we not have basic private lobbies to just practice or play with friends and what about prematch lobbies to see what map is gonna be played and who is playing etc. It's 2015. pls make a video on this as well.
***** Agreed I want to kill time over summer and crucible was the most balanced until the instant rise of last word and thorn, so now I stick to other online games.
***** I'm more pissed about the poor starting spawns in Crucible. On maps like Shores of Time or Rusted Lands, one team has the clear advantage when starting each match.
chris palmer I think banjo said that Necro is basically a write-off. It was a breakdown of communication between the mechanics team and design team, who basically made a completely incompatible gun with the current numbers
Porkchop Dog i don't know about everyone else but i feel that in PvP unless you do really good, exotics shouldn't drop period for you. i'm not talking be jesus and never die five games in a row, but you should show that u have talent. now if u go negative, i would say blues is all u should get, positive can drop legendaries, and then exceptional should be able to drop exotics.
I remember somewhat agreeing with this video back in the day... What a fool I was. Sorry Datto, still love you and will always stay subscribed, but I'd take this Meta over the current over-nerfed mess in heartbeat. I hated Blink-Shotgun, but now Blink has a god-awful delay on usage that makes it nearly useless. I hated Thorn and the bugs with TLW, even though TLW was my favorite gun: now TLW is novelty garbage and the Thorn is STILL getting nerfs a year later. Shotguns pissed me off, but they had power and handled well. Most of the shotguns in the game are wet noodles now, and handle like you're trying to juggle pudding. I just wish we hadn't been so frustrated as to vociferously demand nerfs that we didn't fully understand. I was part of the problem, and I regret everything.
ChrisFallen95Productions people complaining about the meta is the reason shit gets nerfed in the first place and tbh the current meta is the most balanced it has ever been however auto rifles need a buff and that's honestly about it
Jack McCarthy This meta is not the most balanced, actually. Let's compare: 1.1.1 Meta: Scout Rifles had viability as well as synergistic perks. Both High and Low RoF Scouts have lost their original Synergy. For example, take the NL Shadow for example: it could roll Full Auto in 1.1.1. That was a great perk for the gun. Since Year 2, it can't have Full Auto. You rarely see it on High RoF Scouts. And The Scholar had Outlaw and Reactive Reload, which could let it temporarily 2-tap low armor enemies. Hard to find that these days. Pulse Rifles had power and viability across the board. Auto Rifles were lacking, but they are one of only 2 casualties in the Meta. Hand Cannons had stellar performance across the board. Shotguns had a little too much range, and I did like how 2.0 throttled that back a bit, but it created inconsistency with the "pellet RNG" problem. Fusions were the second casualty of the Meta, and had no real place. Snipers were incredibly effective and this created a nice balance for Special Weapons. Sidearms were niche and needed the buffs they've been getting for a while now, but there were only 2 in the game anyways. Rockets were amazing for PVP and PvE, but Machineguns still could do serious work in 6v6 modes for clearing tons of enemies. As for the Exotics: TLW had it's ADS bug, which was broken. However, if that bug had been fixed, the gun would have been perfectly balanced within that Meta. Thorn was dealing way too much damage for it's Archetype (it falls under Lightweight, the least damaging Archetype) and that needed to be throttled back. Instead, they've hit the gun across the board. Red Death had serious power, but it wasn't the best Pulse Rifle in the world. It was strong, sure, but it would consistently lose to weapons like The Messenger or Coiled Hiss 1919. This Meta would have been fine with a few SMALL tweaks, not the sweeping changes that came with 2.0. I liked the range changes that made weapons only perform at their best within their effective range, that would have been fine. Shotguns needed to be toned down in range, but the pellet spread didn't need to be so bad without Shot Package. Also, the tiniest hit in damage would have been ok. Fusions and AR's needed a hard buff, and we needed more competitive Sidearms. TLW needed it's bug fix, and with the range changes, wouldn't be so dominant in the Meta. Thorn needed a blanket damage and range nerf, and that would have fixed the problem. Not ALL of it's stats. Oh, and REFORGING needed to stay in the game. Reforging didn't create that Meta: that was Bungie's fault. They handed out the Party Crasher+1 and Matador 64 like they were candy. I had 10 of these guns and I barely played Crucible except for IB and Trials. Reforging allowed us to dodge bad perks and specialize our guns. It was broken because we had to rely on RNG to get perfect rolls and it cost so much. All it did was exacerbate that Meta, and that's just bad timing. Do you know how much time you'd save in the game if you could just Reforge your Imago Loop, Grasp of Malok, Hawksaw, Arminius-D, or 1K Stare? I got lucky on a lot of these guns, but others weren't. They spend hours farming Nightfalls and Heroics just for perfect guns. This creates boredom and burns them out as players. Reforging solved the RNG problem for weapons. I wish we had gotten it for armor as well, but it was just yanked out of the game instead. Simply put, if we had those few changes, left reforging, and stopped complaining about every issue that plagued PVP, it wouldn't be so absolutely skill-less and boring now. If you don't agree, go watch MTashed's video on how much he hates this Meta. That's a guy that specializes in PVP and hates it more now. And I'm not saying that as someone that loved the 1.1.1 Meta. I AGREED with this video back in the day. I hated Blink-Shotgun. I hated Thorn and TLW. But I still went flawless without those crutches using my Reforged weapons, like my Low-Grade Humility and Red Hand IX. The Meta was more balanced back then. Yeah, it had really annoying issues. But just patching those would have left the PVP in a competitive and balanced state. Ever since 2.0 came out...it's gone downhill.
ChrisFallen95Productions that was the kind of intelligent response i never expect from people and I honestly find myself agreeing with you. Well done good sir!
Dattoo, what are your thoughts on an exoticless gametype (weapons only, maybe armor)? You were talking about it in your review of ttk weapons, and it sounds pretty cool. Maybe consider an @Bungie video?
Pretty much spot on except the proximity detonation on rockets bit. Taking that out of legendary launchers will just make the HMG the go to heavy weapon type. The exotic handcannons need much more recoil to increase the time between shots and blink needs a 2 second time limit before you can use a weapon, after blinking. This would make it so that blink retains the ability to get out of sticky situations quickly but tone down the opportunities for the use of Offensive blinking (blink shotgunning)
DestinyPVPQaa51mB Blink 2 second limit? Good idea but not perfect.Exotic hand cannons needing Much more recoil? I think that really only applies to thorn. Last word could have smart drift replaced with smooth ballistics to lower the potential stability. Hawkmoon takes some skill to use and without it it is a dead weight sitting in your exotic slot where thorn could be. On the blink issue, I think after blink you should become disoriented like a brief flashbang . Still capible of getting a blink shotgun kill, But requiring some good foresight on your part. Or a delay until you touch the ground to use your weapon. Not counting supers as without blink , Nova bomb would be too hard to aim , Bladedance would be much harder to work. Really the exotic perks here are the only problems. Hawkmoon shouldn't be able to have all 3 procs on the same bullet removing the 1 shot problem. Thorn's Dot needs to be lowered to 4 or 5 to make it impossible to 2 shot to the head or 3 shot to the body. It shouldn't be able to outgun heavies. Last word need a range and bonus damage while ADSing fix.
DestinyPVPQaa51mB LMAO "2 second time limit before you can use a weapon" - you're joking right, right? That's the worst suggestion that I have ever heard. Do you want to kill even more people with your thorn? Blink is an awesome counter against the Thorn users, it's pretty much impossible to run & jump 100 meters towards a player & survive long enough to get up close & personal with a shotty, you need the blink to counter thorn users & to get away from their range of site.
Kaloswolfgaming Of course not, didn't say that you did... it helps though if you're going straight up the guts towards a number of guardians using them. It's just how I play, I blink the shit out of it & until I am within range. I use the Mida for longer distances though & can out shoot a thorn.
As bad as these times were for Destiny, I legitimately miss Destiny 1 back in its beta and early launch days. It’s weird looking back on how the Crucible alone changed over time to what it is now.
Notice how the weapons you're talking about nerfing are exotics. (Thorn, TLW, Hawkawesome) With your logics, exotic weapons should essentially become normal weapon types. If they were any tier of weapons besides exotics, sure nerf them. But these weapons are made to be slightly better, slightly more powerful.. these get nerfed and youll just move on to the next thing that needs to be nerfed. Its a never ending cycle
Scratch Luck has nothing to do with it.. Any weapon can easily counter the thorn, sure its annoying but anyone can do it if they actually try to. Its not like god mode activates the second you use thorn and you never die.
***** no, you're flat out wrong. No other primary weapon can consistently get 2 headshot kills. It's the better gun than all the other weapons. Just because it's an exotic doesn't mean that it should be in a tier of its own. A good player with thorn/shotgun is leagues above a good player with a legendary scout/legendary fusion rifle
Scratch TLW can, sometimes 3 shots if you're at a distance, I've used a thorn and been outgunned many times when I had the drop on them, and the reverse of that as well. Too bad that these weapons are in a tier of their own.. Exotic weapons... not as easy to obtain as your normal weapons, slightly more powerful. I deem that reasonable. If every single person could get this weapon, im sure no one would be complaining about it.. Its only because people don't have it that they want it nerfed. Thats how the destiny community is, a game based on rng when something isnt just handed to you, people will complain about something until action is taken. Not just me but several players I have seen can out gun a Thorn, scout rifle, hand cannon, auto rifle, ive seen it all. Sure everyone gets unlucky and just gets railed on occasion by that one guy that is straight god status with the thorn, but im sure if everyone had this gun the tables would be turned
***** yes i know thorn doesn't autowin every engagement. but my point is that select exotic weapons, though exotic status, shouldn't clearly outperform legendary weapons and leave players with less loadout diversity. players shouldn't be immediately punished for using their favorite legendary auto rifle simply because auto rifles aren't as good as exotic hand cannons; that's bullshit
I don't understand why they don't disable the supers and abilities in the crucible. Just have it bare bones, weapons vs players single jump, then you're playing at ability vs ability rather then who has the best supers and the ability to panic use them.
TenaciousC71 That would remove all tactic from the game and only leave marksman skill. I personnally prefer to use my brain more then simply my hand. Now having a rotating mode like that could be fun or one where there are no exotic like he mention in the vid.
TenaciousC71 You do realize the thing that makes Destiny unique is it's super and abilities. If you take those away you may as well just go play another FPS.
Because that is call of duty with shitty level and gun design? No don't you think. I wouldn't mind that as a possible addition but I would rather go and play csgo
Im from the future dont listen to datto go back to year 1 meta before its too late. We can change the future before.....we have double primaries and everything is just nerfed
Double primary meta was the best for sweaty skillful gameplay when you couldnt crutch special weapons and abilities took forever to recharge. On pc it was amazing but console felt wayyyyyyy too slow
That 'insta-kill' meta is better than the skilless shit that occurs nowadays, that was fun, people sitting at the back of the map because primaries fire nerf bullets isn't.
I agree with TLW and the Thorn. However I do not agree with nerfing the Hawkmoon. The entire point of the hawkmoon is for it to have strengths at an extended range. It already took a hit with a hand cannon tweak once. I think it's fine where it is.
Zeil ^ totally fucking agree with u there and here's my solution 2 fix thorn, remove the burn perk and replace with a different better perk that way thorn will be a 3 hit head-shot
Zeil only thing that hawkmoon needs fixed is its ability to roll more than one of its damage buffs in one shot. it can roll all 3 of its luck in the chamber buffs on one bullet and one shot on the body.
I hope Bungie nerfs the exotic Hand Cannons. But I hope they don't over nerf them, like Auto Rifles. I don't want an endless cycle of over buffing or over nerfing weapons.
They don't need to Nerf hand cannons... Just the thorn and TLW as due the perks they have rediculous kill times, while other hand cannons are strong they are definitely not broken
Niall Jones thorn I agree with, tlw not so much, hip fire headshots can be 2HK but at the same time, hip fire headshots are a SOB to hit, thorn however 2HK while ads headshots, easy to get
***** Yeah, all 3 exotic hand cannons need a nerf. Hawkmoon is still kinda bad, but definitely not anywhere near as bad as TLW or Thorn. Hawkmoon's only issues are it's range and the fact that one bullet can receive more than one damage bonus from it's perks. Other than that it's pretty balanced imo.
THIS IS THE TRUEST FUCKING CRUCIBLE VIDEO I HAVE EVER WATCHED. Hands down, couldn't of said everything you said in this video any better myself. I love you.
It will take a solid PVP FPS game to come out on current gen before Bungie fixes their mess of a game. Once people start leaving they will try to win them back. It's hard to believe this is the same company that created Halo.
***** Activision's the publisher, and the publisher has more power than the developer. If bungie never signed the contract with activision, destiny would've been better
Let's forget that 1 thing has nothing to do with the other. Tell me something, are high impact autos still shit because of balance? How many high impact pulses exist in year 2? Hancannons were nerfed because bungie wanted people to use something else, the class itself was never OP.
honestly i like this game but there are way too many game games out or coming out for me to sit and rage. im really done with destiny till they really do an overhall in pvp. its got to the point that literally everyone is shooting a last word or thorn at once.
Allen Bell why would i replay that when i can play the 100s of other games that are out and better to play (ex. witcher or batman). yeah i can wait till then.
Excellent commentary dude! Well said, very much on point. I use the last word every time I go into the crucible because I feel like I have no other choice, I used to use auto rifles but we all know how that went. I hope Bungie watches this video.
Lol back then there needed to be nerfs. In TTK, pulses were only good because everything else was bad. If MIDA was in year 2 then, and legendary hand cannons were never touched and autos were returned back to original stability and a small damage buff, most things would be viable. Now, if bungie nerfs one more thing for being used because everything else got nerfed, the crucible will be demolished. Bring back year 1 classes, and my suggested primary balence. return shotguns to TTK form. return snipers. fusion rifles to year 1 standard. finally, make every machine gun able to carry 35 bullets from a heavy box. you're not supposed to go on a 10 streak using heavy only. comment suggestions.
Eros Reyes i think ROI crucible was worse, just for the simple fact that we had already had about 200 days of the same meta, and then the clever dragon was introduced to the game, and... well, we didnt get any change to it untill 4 or 5 months after roi was released
DattoDoesDestiny thank you. Just....thank you. I was worried I was (and everyone else complaining) were being little panzies about the state of the crucible. But hearing it from you is awesome. So again! Thank you.
Thank you Datto for doing this video! You're bang on for a lot of stuff that I felt needed changing that was left untouched by Bungie for the longest time.
Evil Lynx Hygiea Noblesse/Devil you Know, Her Benevolence, Wolves' Bane. Wreck fools in PvP just fine. People really do just need to suck less and use other weapons.
Evil Lynx Lol We all know if you're good enough you can wreck with anything heck I sometime use monte carlo but its still an handicape. I win simply beacause i'm much better. but on equal ground these gun will reck your ass.
Nice video Datto! Thanks for bringing all this up. I really like the pvp side of this game, but dealing with the problems for this long is beating me down.
813LoneWolf they have proven that they can make changes exlusive for each mode (shotguns getting their damage in PvE buffed etc) so there is no reason why they should harm the state of play in PvE for the sake of PvP. At least I hope they dont. I really just want ARs back in PvE. PvP has a lot more to be done
You know I wish Bungie would just straight up fix Crucible and PvP in general. Remove all Final Round Snipers, Balance Exotic Hand cannons and certain other powerful guns for PvP only. Remove Blink from the game. Have certain exotics become subclass specific. Reduce Lag. Balance map spawns to prevent spawn trapping tactics and spawn killing. Allow Iron Banner Loss Tokens to be turned in after 5 loses for half the xp gain, solo players shouldn't need to suffer the wraith of teams and miss out on actually ranking up. These are a few changes that would really benefit the game, all might not agree or like them but it would fix the meta and that is the issue here. At the moment 90% of players are carbon copies of each other in PvP and Teams of 6 have the advantage to be able to lock down a map, lag is just horrid and overall balance is non existent. ( Sorry about Grammar )
Trilolicious Its tough love, you do it for the better of the game and those that bitch are selfish. Bungie needs to lay down the law and straight out take a hard look into what players are doing in game and go about fixing the current state the game is in.
How does this sound for a blink nerf: -disoriented for 0.5 more seconds -bullet spread increases 7x of the hipfire spread (can't ADS for 2.1 seconds) and slowly returns to normal in 4.2 seconds -range is decreased to 1/9 of the original value and slowly returns to mormal after 4.2 seconds With that, blink will hinder shotguns more than help them
I have no problem with blink (mainly because I use it... Not a shotgun blinker) but if they were to Nerf the shotguns and still leave blink the same we would have no problems because without an op shotgun like felwinters or matador it is useless... Try shotgun blinking with a no shotpackage one and you will be ruined constantly... Blink Imo is fine the way it is
Very comprehensive review. I think you covered every point well and are a strong voice for a lot of us guardians whose voice may not be heard as much as yours. I mean, good hell, they stole your raid idea. They listen to you.
Rocko There's nothing primary in Thorn 2-shotting people at 50 feet making snipers pointless. There's nothing primary about the TLW having a faster TTK than Heavy's
I was laughing my butt off when I heard on this video that MIDA can't be used in PVP... now if you go into pvp without a MIDA you're gonna have a rough time
I understand that this video was based on weapons and time to kill but you forgot to mention sunsinger warlocks. Sunsinger is undoubtedly the bass class in the game. - They have the best grenades; firebolts with Touch of Flame, Viking Funeral is an absolute joke in pvp. Their super is also extremely powerful. The ability to self revive with either two grenades, two melees or the ability to disorient opponents is too effective. They have a one hit capability with melees which can hit from ridiculous range, an overshield with said melee and a damage reduction, and they also have full mobility which renders bladedancer the worst super in the game. -They also have the best exotics. I don't even have to explain this, just look for yourself. Overall, they are completely ridiculous and cannot be outmatched. And don't even get me started on PVE, bungie pls nerf
Completly agree with the sunsinger. However, I main a titan, and I always feel at a disadvantage. I've seen so many throwing knife kills across map that shouldnt be possible in an fps game. Yes titans do have shoulder charge. Any good player will one shot you with Felwinters or mow you down will last word when you rush. The defender class super is trash. Nova Bomb your dead. Golden Gun dead. Arc Blade dead. Do I have to mention that suppression grenades dont work 50% of the time? I love my titan and do well with it (1.22 kd) but little things like this make me want to change classes that are op...*cough* Blink Hunters and Warlocks *cough*. Im not complaining, just saying the titan is a little underpowered.
TIL Datto and the community thought they were going to fix the crucible, but instead turned this game into garbage. You complained about no damage dropoff now we all hate it. This community will never be happy with the crucible. Bungie should have never listened and left the meta alone from day one. Every match now is who has the most special ammo... *sigh* #buffprimaries
could another possible way to help balance thorn be that maybe introduce some other legendary weapons that have a DOT type of their own? in conjunction with the range and slight damage nerf I think this could help balance the crucible. I also like the idea of a NO EXOTIC PVP mode would be cool,voluntary of course.
> be DATTO > gets carried in trials > sucks at pve > sucks at pvp > makes a vid complaining > complains about ttk > complains about reforge > complains about all pre dlcs rolls > uses delusional data > complains about "blink" > complains about G&H > "enjoys" for "fun" at beta ( kek ) > willing to bet he complained about Vex and Suros If Bungie listens to this casual in the next 5 months > Be DATTO > gets carried in TTK > complains about Midas and Scouts Rifles > Mida Time to kill 2 fast > makes up random Mida metas > complains about new re rolls in armor and weps > makes a cry vid > sir wallen loses all respect > cycle continues tooooooo If bungie listens to this casual after this > Be DATTO > gets carried in Destiny 2 > complains about Red Death and Pulse Rifles > Red Death time to kill 2 fast > makes up random Red Death metas > complains about something bungie added > makes a cry vid > triplewreck still destroying ppl with NLB against thorns/SRs/Blinks etc > cycle continues If bungie listens to this casual again > Be DATTO > gets carried in TTQ expansion for Destiny 2 > complains about next exotic and its legendary cousin > makes up random Exotic metas > complains about something something bungie did/not > NLB gets nerf cuz is soo OP > cycle continues 10 year Destiny project is finally here > Be Datto > Still gets carried > complains about blues and green weapons cryptarch gives out too Op > makes up random blue/green metas > complains about Destiny only being 10 years > something gets nerfed > moves onto next game Honestly, I get it, you whine and can't compete against Thorns/TLW/Blinks. K, we get it u suck. I have gone flawless every weekend, with Midas, SatterinenRapiers, Prudence Sniper, No blinks, even Timurs Lash, shit I even had one guy first ToO weekend in my team rick roll Thorners with a Venation with Luck in chamber and Final round. Riddle me that Batman. Stop destroying this game with nerfs. Just bring bAck Vex and Suros to its former glory and thats the only way to have variation. I have gone against Everyshot him and his thorn blink shotgun and destoryed him with Universal Remote. Fuck sakes, nerfs ruin games. Just keep old stats of autos and vex. Also u bitch about pre dlc rolls on wepz? Field scout? FS is Op? Plz. Games have gone to waste and became unplayable and unjoyable due to weekly nerfs, even if it wasnt competitive pvp but pve...just look over at Mass Effect 3 and the crying of children like you about having more kills with a weapon even tho its PVE. Get over it, no one complained about how shitty AR was in Halo 1/2/3 and how it need it a buff.
r3mxd I would like to say something, just because Datto complains about Thorn being too op it doesn't mean that he sucks. This Is something I notice, I've used the Thorn and it's too op, you can't 2 shot headshot with hawkmoon (normal bullets) whereas with the Thorn you can. Same thing applies to sniper shotguns, I've used them and they are too op, speacially if in the hands of those who literally don't use a primary. And Finnaly, in Destiny I think that weapons should be balanced, therefore all weapons should be as good, making the decision of what weapon you want to use in the crucible be only about players' choise and not because you have to use a Thorn otherwise you will be in a disadvantage.
Destiny Inc. While you present a decent argument, the issue is to actually pick up the Thorn is a feat within itself. Not to mention the fact that its not a Thorn, TLW meta only anyway. Everyone knows that if someone shoots with thorn, close the distance. They can't shoot well at close range, no matter the 2 shot kill. If you get up in someones face and jumping around. At close range, the thorn can't keep up. So you can either use shotguns, or you could use machine guns. The Last Word This is admittedly my favorite weapon because its just so cowboy. I just like it. This actually has led me to learn something about it. It has no range, you can kill the last word at far medium range on. It can't, in fact won't go father. Use that. If you know an enemy is trying to hide in a corner, throw a grenade to get em moving and shoot em from a distance while they panic because they can't kill you as easily as they used to. Fel-Winters lie I don't have this weapon because I'm not good enough to pick one up, albeit, I've seen enough to know. This is a harder one to counter, shearly because of its abnormal range. Though, there is a counter that can be easily employed if you watch for the opening. If they blink at you. It means they're predicting your position. As soon as they make the first jump, most players won't stop mid blink to track you. Jump right through them as they blink. I've had this happen to me. Its incredibly disorienting to have happen. You immediately turn around and find that they're already twice as far and shooting you. Try again? I don't think so. The reason you were killed with other weapons and not the three the the video says are the only viable ones, is because damage, was set to be that way. Its a bad fix to matchmaking. Make everything equal so everyone can play together. Well, it kinda works with the lower class weapons but with exotics. Not so much. So people who don't have these 3 are left to their own devices and arise better skilled then the rest because the worked against the meta. Everyone practiced against the 3 and when something new comes along. They fall flat. This is actually why I prefer using the Last word in conjuncture with a less used weapon. It makes it more fun, and if I have a target that needs it. My last word will give me a boost, provided its in range, isn't too close where I can't aim at it or that my target isn't behind cover. Think about weaknesses and see how they can be exploited before you ask for nerfs. But that is just my two sense
Dalton Morzos About Thorn not being good at close range, Yes it's true it can't keep up at close range. But that is why people suit their play style to whatever weapon they're using. If im using a Thorn I could maybe try to stay in at medium range, never engaging close combats. In what concerns The Last Word I don't think it needs a nerf, I only think it needs a bug fix. Quite often if you are aiming down sights with The Last Word you can get a headshot damage increase as if you were hip firing. Finnaly, yes you can sometimes try to counter a blink shotgunner. But the main problem isn't blink. The problem is that with such an enourmous range you can get killed unexpectedly and unfairly, forcing you to use a shotgun to be able to counter them.. And you don't have a fellwinters? Guess what, by playing normal crucible you can just get a Party Crasher + 1 or a Matador 64 which can even be better then the fellwinters, which just made this an even bigger issue.
r3mxd Actually I'd really like things to get nerfed in Crucible. I'm tired of dying in half a second. I had hoped a Bungie game wouldn't be exactly like COD with its TTK.
You nailed everything. Great job. Hope Bungie will take what was said with humility and respect. I'm sure since they used your videos in the special 7/7 Bungie day video that they have seen and listened
Secksie_ Mandoodle I was joking. It's sad though that exotics are the only valid go-to weapons in the game right now. Red Death is a great weapon for sure.
Joe Pitchford Just because someone is actually good and the game and can consistently get kills doesn't mean they're "try hards" lol and what is everyone just not supposed to actually try to do good at the game?so basically you are saying everyone should just not try in Crucible bcuz omg tryhards dood zo bad
Until Iron Banner and Trials are always around 24/7, you can't expect the most competitive players not to be in REGULAR CRUCIBLE, quit crying that you've been killed by someone better than you.
Jack McCarthy That's because you are "that dude" that uses it and can't comprehend that it's the only thing 70% of people in the game can use; an actual statistic from the last month of crucible
Spencer Whitcomb actually its the opposite. I don't use the meta to counter the meta purely because that makes the problem worse. In fact the weapon I have been playing with the most lately is a sidearm to make sure the shotgunners get melted once in close range. Im not saying that this meta is perfect but its been worse and I would take this meta over the uni remote meta and thorn meta any day. Also don't just assume you know how I play the game based off one comment I made.
Great video, always nice to hear coherent guardians speak their mind. Playing thru the Crucible since day one, it does suck seeing how certain weapons always end up being the most used. Having distinct perks is what got me interested in collecting as many weapons as possible... but then Bungie/Destiny went the way of copy/paste with most of the recent weapons, even offered less with the newest gear. Seems like Bungie is well aware of the weapons and issues, I get the feeling their waiting till the Taken King addition so that way they can add to the lofty list of things that were updated/fixed. In the mean time, yay for the Red Death finally giving me a fighting chance against all the Thorns being used @_@
And the lord said amen.
Eat my space magic.
All hail the fruit!!!
Bless you child
Mr. Fruit Gaming Channel And now, we nerf Hawkawesome!
Amen.... Does this make me the lord?
Hey Datto! I’m a guardian from 4 years in the future. Unfortunately the “one shot meta” is still here, but at least we no longer have double primaries.
Yeah, oneshot meta kinda sucks but atleast there's lots of weapon variety.
Hello dear player, I'm a guardian from 1 year into the future from your timeline. Atm the crucible is filled with bs special weapons and freezing habilities.
@@Daeriusus hey there, player a year in the future here!
T E L E S T O.
Trials and IB are defined exclusively by 3 weapons - Thorn / TLW / Felwinter shotguns. Depending on the map sniper is just as competitive as them, but a majority of the time due to Bungie's map balancing this isn't the case.
I would understand if they at least acknowledged they were monitoring the PvP metagame in a weekly update or something, but we've gotten nothing in 4+ months. Lots of people will claim "balancing takes time" but 4 months is unacceptable considering it took them less than 2 to nerf autos and buff pulse / scout rifles. Thorn and TLW do every gun archetype's job better at every range while felwinter clones can quite literally instakill people across most corridor rooms in most maps. When the requirement to stay fully competitive is limited to 3 weapons a majority of the time, something is quite obviously wrong with it.
Bungie pls.
Hi blue
There's an exception the the sniper thing: final spear
Depending on your console, hawkmoon is also a problem
Westloooooooooooo
dagoxo7arius the range is really the only problem on Hawkmoon.
Westlo HEY I KNOW YOU, YOUR WITH THAT FRUITY GUY.
The hilarious thing about seeing this in my feed in 2020 is how many times I’ve seen people in the past few years say “Can we just go back to House of Wolves?”
Lol people have super short memories in the Destiny community.
Don't think people want Last Word and Thorn 2 tapping. Everything felt much better in House of Wolves. Lack of bloom, accuracy and everything felt great. The legendary weapons for the most part were all balanced well against each other. Primaries dominated because of how consistent and good they felt.
Aside from Last Word 2 tapping, Thorn 2 tapping, Final round snipers, Shot package shotguns; House of Wolves was one of the best times in Destiny's pvp history. But even with all of that stuff, the meta was pretty diverse and there were a lot of options available.
Absolutely nobody says let’s go back to house of wolves
I’ve personally never heard someone say that. The only thing I’ve heard are people saying that they either want to go back to the Taken King or the beta and early launch days of D1.
I'm glad the community is talking about this. I love Destiny PvP, but I get crucified for bringing it up on my channel or on the Planet Destiny stream. Either introduce a non-exotic game type version of control/clash/all game modes or max all primary weapons at a 3+ head shot value. The messenger and red death 2 burst headshot variants are also an issue that will need to be looked at imo.
Good on you for bringing up an issue.
Yep
Wally, why have you removed the "Lore Seeker" part from your username :-(
^ I still do lore.
Join the Wally movement dismantle your thorns and last words. I did.
I don't think Pulse Rifles are as much of a problem because they require a lot of skill to get those 2 burst kills and their Rates of Fire are slower. The problem with Hand Cannons right now is that they're too easy to use IMO (plus Thorn and tLW are OP, but that was addressed in the video). My simple solution: Hand Cannons in general could use a Target Aquisition and Recoil nerf to make them harder to use, not a damage nerf. Last Word needs a significant range nerf and needs a bug fix. Thorn would benefit from a Rate of Fire nerf (I'd put it at 18 or 19 rather than 35) to reduce the kill time, but remain a 2 headshot kill (it would be pretty terrible otherwise), and needs a noticeable range nerf to bring it in line with other Hand Cannons. Hawkmoon also needs a range nerf, but due to the RNG factor for the non-guaranteed 2 headshot kill (and the occasional 1 headshot kill) and the slower Rate of Fire I don't think it needs a damage nerf since it's much more ballanced than the other two.
Lmao wewere complaining about having no damage drop off now we are talking about ghost bullets
Arik Ball I prefer this meta way better
nerf shotguns
Red Devil NO buff primaries
or both
So this is why teamshots brought down pvp in d2 to 800k lmao, good job bro.
Watching in 2019. Sad to say we are here again with Lunas/Nf and a dust rock with Wardcliff Coil.
Damn right
Yup
1996BlueMan and the endless amount of fucking heavy and supers
Luna/NF were fine on PC. Handcannons on console needed a buff.
And now it's Mountaintop and Recluse :/
Feels about right.
Looking back at this video a year later I would prefer this than now
Jack Fair Exactly
yep. the current meta can bite my ass
Bloodmoon Rogue I miss the fast paced play like it was :/
Jack Fair use your f****** primary!
GIgaming what are you talking about?
I agree with everything in terms of nerfing what is IMO ruining PvP. Thorn, Last Word & the range on shotguns all need sorting out, I would agree blink shotgunning is an issue too which won't be effected by a range nerf or even a shot package removal. I mean the initial blink brings them close enough to 90% of the time allow them to one hit you but like you say if they dont one hit you, the melee that follows will kill you! Only thing I can see working with blink is if they apply a time delay after the initial blink for you to shoot your weapon giving the person on the defence from this blink time to react! Hopefully Bungie are watching & listening so they sort the mess what PvP is out! Great video Datto!
I have no problem with TLW cause you have to get close for it to be good. Thorn on the other hand can be shot across the map and kill you in 2 or 3 shots
Oki_Dingo You do not have to be close at all to kill with last word in the slightest. I know from personal experience using it in Iron Banner.
Oki_Dingo Guys I found the scrub. Did you really just say you have to be close with TLW for it to be good? Dude, I've been using TLW for 2 days (I'm more of a pulse/auto rifle guy) and I could probably make you a montage of long distance kills I've pulled off against pulse rifles and snipers. The thing has THREE stability upgrades and bonus damage. I'm sorry, but if you HAVE to be close to be effective with TLW, your gun skill is buns.
Oki_Dingo You do NOT need to get close with the last word.
it's not fair the Titans do not has blink it just makes us even worse the crucible
...and i haven´t even reached my final form >:D
Lol supersaiyan thorn
Impostor!
Thorn Hand Cannon Huh what are you, plastic?
Thorn nope yall are both shit.
***** "Whence" already means "from where", so you just said "from from where". Do not try to use fancy-sounding words without actually knowing how to properly use them.
I really don't understand why they can nerf the shit out of auto rifles so much that everyone who used them was forced to find something else but they can't do the same to hand cannons and shotguns which are far worse than auto rifles ever were
tarheelfan407 hand cannons in general are not OP, the legendary ones like red hand or fulcrum are very balanced just the exotic ones that need a nerf imo
SAMMEO1 Just thorn and last word need that bug fixed.
helsinreaper Hawkmoon too, if you nerf Thorn and TLW, everyone will just use Hawkmoon.
tarheelfan407 I think they originally nerfed them as they were too easy to use. They need to buff them again, but so they don't vastly outclass a weapon type.
Av3rage_Gamer A headshot from thorn does more than hawkmoon with a lucky bullet. Hawkmoon is alright it can be countered alot easier the counter than thorn or last word.
I watch this video for memories
Crazy Capybraya and now I have ptsd
Same but in d2
thanks for speaking out on this as always.
Glad atleast someone speaks out, all the other destinytubers seem content do engram opening and xur prediction videos...
Charlie Bartlett "cough" DPJ "cough"
Charlie Bartlett That's because they like to spread their ass wide open for Bungie
XD
It's not crucible its game of thorns
K den lmfao i see what u did there xD
K den Very true indeed.
K den Felwinter is Coming...
Giantdad Lives the legend never dies huh? xD
chris palmer But don't tell anyone you leveled that up.
Well spoken.
I would love to see all range perks removed from shotguns, force people to get closer for them to be lethal.
Final round should simply be removed from the pool of perks on ALL snipers, you shouldn't be rewarded with a "powered up" shot for dumping two bullets into the ground.
Thorn needs a range adjustment, and the mark of the devourer's effect needs changing ( maybe make it similar to Hawkmoon where only 2 or 3 shots in the weapon could proc the tick damage, and also drop it to 5dmg per tick )
Plenty of other small gripes, but if these were addressed, PVP would be a better place for everyone.
Hasn't that already happened for the shotgun and sniper?
Thanks, TH-cam, for recommending this to me 10 days until the Final Shape, this is helping me figure out the PvP meta better.
Wait, you're telling me you don't enjoy getting sniped by Thorn and Shotguns? It's so skillful and fun! /s
Hey tripleWRECK, I watch your stream every now and then
iAM - tripleWRECK get it
iAM - tripleWRECK In case of no gun-skill...... BREAK GLASS
Ayo tripleneck whats up buddy
iAM - tripleWRECK says the one who exclusively uses tlw
5:32 G-horn in Crucible???
***** I also got one from Crucible, not that long ago actually.
I got my 12th gghorn from crucible
GrayKatana yeah me too xD
Something I don't see people talk about is crucible drops. Could some you tuber talk about that or complain. Why should a person be able to get an exotic just from playing a crucible match. I always see the bottom player getting a Gjallarhorn. I'm not saying it shouldn't be that the bottom player shouldn't get just as many rewards as the bottom player as long as the player is trying. It is like a nightfall you get rewards for participation. But if exotics are the best of the best weapons then why should you be able to get them from an 8-12 minute game of crucible.
There is no pride or story by getting an exotic from crucible
Maybe the only way to resolve all these issues is to give different weapon categories a buff every month. Which is essentially what they've been doing with these patches. This way by the time people start throwing their controllers after losing to a specific weapon that weapon's advantage will no longer exist.
Almighty's Daygon | Gaming & Entertainment thats a lot of work lol
Patches cost Bungie a shit ton of Money. I don't think we'll be seeing this anytime soon.
***** I know it sounds ridiculous but thats what everyone's asking for. There will always be a Meta. There will always be complaints. So to keep people happy they just have to juggle the meta around frequently. After Thorn gets nerfed, Pulse Rifles will be overused and nerfed in turn.
Jaccobtw They have a shitload of money.
Jaccobtw With the prices they're selling TTK at, they should be fine.
hey datto i come from the future 6 years from now. things have litterally not changed
I’d say things have changed so much they’ve gone full circle
I remember when I used to be good, now I'm just trash waiting to be repaired.
SUROS Regime Don't worry soon child.
*Sheds tear*
Soon.
I don't know if I should trust you, you look like you use Thorn.
Wrong sir! I use red death!
The gun that replaced you!
Lmao!!
I still use you :')
Anyone else notice the enemy found a Gjhallahorn in that crucible match?
Yep 5:33
I cri evritim ;_;
dylan mclaughlin Damn i have never seen anyone get that in crucible
***** lol,i was secon last at match losing team, i got gjally. That was fantastic.
DestinyHawk Damn congratz man! Do you have a high grimoire score, and did you just play control? :)
Whoever dislikes this video has zero integrity.
Hey what's up Coolguy!
Billy Nahar What's up Buddy! How are you doing? Datto is spot on. A ton of people feel this way. All I want from Bungie in acknowledgement. Not. One. Word. From them.
CoolGuy I'm good thanks dude! I agree with both of you on this issue, having used the exotic hand cannons this week in Iron Banner, I cannot believe how stupid the range is on all of them. I have been out gunning Mida Multi Tools, which is just stupid. Enjoyed the new scout rifle video, keep em coming!
Maybe for the thorn burn, I think right now it has 5 ticks of 7, but what if they made it so, if your recovery is at a certain point, you can regen health a bit in between, making an extra shot nessecary to kill. That way then it becomes a thing of player choice whether to build the load out with a counter to thorn in mind or not
Whoever dislikes this video sucks at the crucible and is afraid of their crutches being taken away.
What about just the crucible in general? How do we not have basic private lobbies to just practice or play with friends and what about prematch lobbies to see what map is gonna be played and who is playing etc. It's 2015. pls make a video on this as well.
Nice video btw.
Too much like CoD let the map be random
***** I want private lobbies,just let the map be random
We need to complain more for them to give us private lobbies.
Naruto Uzumaki lol
If Bungie waits until the taken king to do these fixes, then they will lose a lot of crucible players. Including myself.
Same
***** Agreed I want to kill time over summer and crucible was the most balanced until the instant rise of last word and thorn, so now I stick to other online games.
***** I'm more pissed about the poor starting spawns in Crucible. On maps like Shores of Time or Rusted Lands, one team has the clear advantage when starting each match.
***** Actually I don't think destiny crucible is fun anymore.
There are just really too much cocky people with thorns.
***** They've already lost me. Planetside 2 has never felt better on the PS4 since the hotfix.
1 like = 1 prayer for Suros
R.I.P suros
Jarred G Suros? Now that's a name I haven't heard in a very long time
Ever since i got the game, Suros was my goal. Now its an antique dematerialize inside digital vault.
Fred Kennedy suros? what about necrochasm? lmfao xD
chris palmer I think banjo said that Necro is basically a write-off. It was a breakdown of communication between the mechanics team and design team, who basically made a completely incompatible gun with the current numbers
5:35 GJALLARHORN!
Porkchop Dog * 5:30
Porkchop Dog *5:33
Ikr!
Ha it seems though who play the most and deserve it never have it :P
Porkchop Dog i don't know about everyone else but i feel that in PvP unless you do really good, exotics shouldn't drop period for you. i'm not talking be jesus and never die five games in a row, but you should show that u have talent. now if u go negative, i would say blues is all u should get, positive can drop legendaries, and then exceptional should be able to drop exotics.
I remember somewhat agreeing with this video back in the day...
What a fool I was.
Sorry Datto, still love you and will always stay subscribed, but I'd take this Meta over the current over-nerfed mess in heartbeat.
I hated Blink-Shotgun, but now Blink has a god-awful delay on usage that makes it nearly useless. I hated Thorn and the bugs with TLW, even though TLW was my favorite gun: now TLW is novelty garbage and the Thorn is STILL getting nerfs a year later. Shotguns pissed me off, but they had power and handled well. Most of the shotguns in the game are wet noodles now, and handle like you're trying to juggle pudding.
I just wish we hadn't been so frustrated as to vociferously demand nerfs that we didn't fully understand. I was part of the problem, and I regret everything.
I would rather be penetrated by 80 shotgun penises at once than have THIS garbage back.
ChrisFallen95Productions people complaining about the meta is the reason shit gets nerfed in the first place and tbh the current meta is the most balanced it has ever been however auto rifles need a buff and that's honestly about it
Jack McCarthy
This meta is not the most balanced, actually. Let's compare:
1.1.1 Meta:
Scout Rifles had viability as well as synergistic perks. Both High and Low RoF Scouts have lost their original Synergy. For example, take the NL Shadow for example: it could roll Full Auto in 1.1.1. That was a great perk for the gun. Since Year 2, it can't have Full Auto. You rarely see it on High RoF Scouts. And The Scholar had Outlaw and Reactive Reload, which could let it temporarily 2-tap low armor enemies. Hard to find that these days.
Pulse Rifles had power and viability across the board.
Auto Rifles were lacking, but they are one of only 2 casualties in the Meta.
Hand Cannons had stellar performance across the board.
Shotguns had a little too much range, and I did like how 2.0 throttled that back a bit, but it created inconsistency with the "pellet RNG" problem.
Fusions were the second casualty of the Meta, and had no real place.
Snipers were incredibly effective and this created a nice balance for Special Weapons.
Sidearms were niche and needed the buffs they've been getting for a while now, but there were only 2 in the game anyways.
Rockets were amazing for PVP and PvE, but Machineguns still could do serious work in 6v6 modes for clearing tons of enemies.
As for the Exotics:
TLW had it's ADS bug, which was broken. However, if that bug had been fixed, the gun would have been perfectly balanced within that Meta.
Thorn was dealing way too much damage for it's Archetype (it falls under Lightweight, the least damaging Archetype) and that needed to be throttled back. Instead, they've hit the gun across the board.
Red Death had serious power, but it wasn't the best Pulse Rifle in the world. It was strong, sure, but it would consistently lose to weapons like The Messenger or Coiled Hiss 1919.
This Meta would have been fine with a few SMALL tweaks, not the sweeping changes that came with 2.0.
I liked the range changes that made weapons only perform at their best within their effective range, that would have been fine.
Shotguns needed to be toned down in range, but the pellet spread didn't need to be so bad without Shot Package. Also, the tiniest hit in damage would have been ok.
Fusions and AR's needed a hard buff, and we needed more competitive Sidearms.
TLW needed it's bug fix, and with the range changes, wouldn't be so dominant in the Meta.
Thorn needed a blanket damage and range nerf, and that would have fixed the problem. Not ALL of it's stats.
Oh, and REFORGING needed to stay in the game.
Reforging didn't create that Meta: that was Bungie's fault. They handed out the Party Crasher+1 and Matador 64 like they were candy. I had 10 of these guns and I barely played Crucible except for IB and Trials.
Reforging allowed us to dodge bad perks and specialize our guns. It was broken because we had to rely on RNG to get perfect rolls and it cost so much. All it did was exacerbate that Meta, and that's just bad timing.
Do you know how much time you'd save in the game if you could just Reforge your Imago Loop, Grasp of Malok, Hawksaw, Arminius-D, or 1K Stare?
I got lucky on a lot of these guns, but others weren't. They spend hours farming Nightfalls and Heroics just for perfect guns. This creates boredom and burns them out as players.
Reforging solved the RNG problem for weapons. I wish we had gotten it for armor as well, but it was just yanked out of the game instead.
Simply put, if we had those few changes, left reforging, and stopped complaining about every issue that plagued PVP, it wouldn't be so absolutely skill-less and boring now. If you don't agree, go watch MTashed's video on how much he hates this Meta. That's a guy that specializes in PVP and hates it more now.
And I'm not saying that as someone that loved the 1.1.1 Meta. I AGREED with this video back in the day. I hated Blink-Shotgun. I hated Thorn and TLW. But I still went flawless without those crutches using my Reforged weapons, like my Low-Grade Humility and Red Hand IX.
The Meta was more balanced back then. Yeah, it had really annoying issues. But just patching those would have left the PVP in a competitive and balanced state. Ever since 2.0 came out...it's gone downhill.
ChrisFallen95Productions that was the kind of intelligent response i never expect from people and I honestly find myself agreeing with you. Well done good sir!
Jack McCarthy
Thank you good sir.
Dattoo, what are your thoughts on an exoticless gametype (weapons only, maybe armor)? You were talking about it in your review of ttk weapons, and it sounds pretty cool. Maybe consider an @Bungie video?
Damn, just finished video and saw you addressed this
Michael Kilduff felwinter's lie-style shotguns aren't exotic, which worries me for the gametype.
That guy got a gjallarhorn in crucible. WTF lucky.
That's how I got mine. It was my first exotic and I was dissapointed because it was a Rocket Launcher XD
I bought mine, heh
uselessvidproduction lol yeah me 2, i got mine about a mont or two before Dark Below and i didnt used it untill after The dark Below
Got mine from a vanguard dragon strike :)
yester day, my lvl 29 friend got one from crucible. and he did the worst lol
Pretty much spot on except the proximity detonation on rockets bit. Taking that out of legendary launchers will just make the HMG the go to heavy weapon type. The exotic handcannons need much more recoil to increase the time between shots and blink needs a 2 second time limit before you can use a weapon, after blinking.
This would make it so that blink retains the ability to get out of sticky situations quickly but tone down the opportunities for the use of Offensive blinking (blink shotgunning)
DestinyPVPQaa51mB Blink 2 second limit? Good idea but not perfect.Exotic hand cannons needing Much more recoil? I think that really only applies to thorn. Last word could have smart drift replaced with smooth ballistics to lower the potential stability. Hawkmoon takes some skill to use and without it it is a dead weight sitting in your exotic slot where thorn could be.
On the blink issue, I think after blink you should become disoriented like a brief flashbang . Still capible of getting a blink shotgun kill, But requiring some good foresight on your part. Or a delay until you touch the ground to use your weapon. Not counting supers as without blink , Nova bomb would be too hard to aim , Bladedance would be much harder to work.
Really the exotic perks here are the only problems. Hawkmoon shouldn't be able to have all 3 procs on the same bullet removing the 1 shot problem.
Thorn's Dot needs to be lowered to 4 or 5 to make it impossible to 2 shot to the head or 3 shot to the body. It shouldn't be able to outgun heavies.
Last word need a range and bonus damage while ADSing fix.
Tim Tom Thorns DoT needs to be lowered to 4, that's what it used to do and that burn was releatively balanced compared to now
DestinyPVPQaa51mB LMAO "2 second time limit before you can use a weapon" - you're joking right, right? That's the worst suggestion that I have ever heard. Do you want to kill even more people with your thorn? Blink is an awesome counter against the Thorn users, it's pretty much impossible to run & jump 100 meters towards a player & survive long enough to get up close & personal with a shotty, you need the blink to counter thorn users & to get away from their range of site.
Jakes Daicos
you don't NEED blink to counter thorn.
Kaloswolfgaming Of course not, didn't say that you did... it helps though if you're going straight up the guts towards a number of guardians using them. It's just how I play, I blink the shit out of it & until I am within range. I use the Mida for longer distances though & can out shoot a thorn.
As bad as these times were for Destiny, I legitimately miss Destiny 1 back in its beta and early launch days. It’s weird looking back on how the Crucible alone changed over time to what it is now.
Notice how the weapons you're talking about nerfing are exotics. (Thorn, TLW, Hawkawesome) With your logics, exotic weapons should essentially become normal weapon types. If they were any tier of weapons besides exotics, sure nerf them. But these weapons are made to be slightly better, slightly more powerful.. these get nerfed and youll just move on to the next thing that needs to be nerfed. Its a never ending cycle
***** Success shouldn't be based on lucky weapon rewards
Scratch
Luck has nothing to do with it.. Any weapon can easily counter the thorn, sure its annoying but anyone can do it if they actually try to. Its not like god mode activates the second you use thorn and you never die.
***** no, you're flat out wrong. No other primary weapon can consistently get 2 headshot kills. It's the better gun than all the other weapons. Just because it's an exotic doesn't mean that it should be in a tier of its own. A good player with thorn/shotgun is leagues above a good player with a legendary scout/legendary fusion rifle
Scratch TLW can, sometimes 3 shots if you're at a distance, I've used a thorn and been outgunned many times when I had the drop on them, and the reverse of that as well. Too bad that these weapons are in a tier of their own.. Exotic weapons... not as easy to obtain as your normal weapons, slightly more powerful. I deem that reasonable. If every single person could get this weapon, im sure no one would be complaining about it.. Its only because people don't have it that they want it nerfed. Thats how the destiny community is, a game based on rng when something isnt just handed to you, people will complain about something until action is taken. Not just me but several players I have seen can out gun a Thorn, scout rifle, hand cannon, auto rifle, ive seen it all. Sure everyone gets unlucky and just gets railed on occasion by that one guy that is straight god status with the thorn, but im sure if everyone had this gun the tables would be turned
***** yes i know thorn doesn't autowin every engagement. but my point is that select exotic weapons, though exotic status, shouldn't clearly outperform legendary weapons and leave players with less loadout diversity. players shouldn't be immediately punished for using their favorite legendary auto rifle simply because auto rifles aren't as good as exotic hand cannons; that's bullshit
I agreed with everything you said! Someone send this video to deej!
How about u throw ur double bipod knife with the video attached to it to bungie!
I just unlocked the bipod for my bipod
fun fact a bipod throwing knife was going to be an exotic but it was way too op so they removed it from the game
IT'S OP - Azzy.
Dip dip, potato chip. Dip dip, potato chip. Dip dip, potato chip.
Thank you, excellent video Datto, point well stated
this video triggers me from the future. I'd be desperate to have this state back
so im only one that missed this crucible?
Cause by nostalgia? If that's the case, I understand. But it's inconceivable to return back to this broken past.
I miss it this new meta is full of snipers and its fucking annoying.
No that just simply isn't true.
It was a lot faster and more fun :( I don't really like this new meta
Mr Menzia I guess it's just a matter of preference.
Who else misses this meta? Pvp sucks now.
me
Ltpwnface
Agreed
Ltpwnface me
I do. At least in this meta people used primaries. (Even if they were massively OP.)
Ltpwnface I'd rather have destiny DIE than return to that meta, and I LOVE the game.
Did any one notice at 5:34 someone go the Gjallarhorn?
You put this so much better than I ever could have. Props my friend
I don't understand why they don't disable the supers and abilities in the crucible. Just have it bare bones, weapons vs players single jump, then you're playing at ability vs ability rather then who has the best supers and the ability to panic use them.
TenaciousC71 fist of panic inbound lmao xD
Because this isn't a military shooter. Destiny is a game built around special abilities.
TenaciousC71 That would remove all tactic from the game and only leave marksman skill.
I personnally prefer to use my brain more then simply my hand. Now having a rotating mode like that could be fun or one where there are no exotic like he mention in the vid.
TenaciousC71 You do realize the thing that makes Destiny unique is it's super and abilities. If you take those away you may as well just go play another FPS.
Because that is call of duty with shitty level and gun design? No don't you think. I wouldn't mind that as a possible addition but I would rather go and play csgo
what about the problem of Trials of Osiris where people change to Ghorn when it's the heavy round. that really pisses me off.
Thats not a problem
It cause you probs dont have a gghorn
That's just changing your loadout
the merchandise I have 4 fully upgraded Ghorn
Martian Manhunter no, that's being cheap.
Has anyone notice that? lol 5:33
😂😂 g horn
thAt was me lol I got a g horn
Yes meowmers.... That was TOTALLY you
***** That was Nebula from the team I'm in. He showed us earlier today and now Datto used this video where they got hammered by him xD
meowmers Sure, it was totally you that got it. Yup.
Anyone catch how someone get gjallahorn on the end of that first game
I just want to use my suros again
TRUUUUUU
People like datto contributed to the death of suros, you were probably right behind him
I hope you're talking about making the gun usable, not about restoring it to its BS level. We don't need to go back to those days.
Jared Jeffers I want it to be competitive again
Reggie Pipkin already have Red Death. I prefer TLW over it
Im from the future dont listen to datto go back to year 1 meta before its too late. We can change the future before.....we have double primaries and everything is just nerfed
😂😂 Right!
Double primary meta was the best for sweaty skillful gameplay when you couldnt crutch special weapons and abilities took forever to recharge. On pc it was amazing but console felt wayyyyyyy too slow
That 'insta-kill' meta is better than the skilless shit that occurs nowadays, that was fun, people sitting at the back of the map because primaries fire nerf bullets isn't.
Ikr
This is more skilless tho
+AmexDZ it mattered who could two tap faster now its who can get a lucky headshot with a sniper first
+AmexDZ yeet
5 years later felwinters is still running a muck in crucible
I agree with TLW and the Thorn. However I do not agree with nerfing the Hawkmoon. The entire point of the hawkmoon is for it to have strengths at an extended range. It already took a hit with a hand cannon tweak once. I think it's fine where it is.
Zeil ^ totally fucking agree with u there and here's my solution 2 fix thorn, remove the burn perk and replace with a different better perk that way thorn will be a 3 hit head-shot
chris palmer they cant remove the burn thats literally the whole point of thorn.
Zeil only thing that hawkmoon needs fixed is its ability to roll more than one of its damage buffs in one shot. it can roll all 3 of its luck in the chamber buffs on one bullet and one shot on the body.
Zeil i absolutely agree, the hawkmoon represents what a handcannon should be like in pvp.
Dustin Sterling they should do that even if 2 shots roll on one bullet it's still a two shot kill
Im so with you on the enemy having a bad connection. They don't deserve a
Teleportation lag kill at all.
S3RENITY does destiny even have 'dedicated servers'?
chris palmer nope. Why do you think lag switching and ddoss is happening in trials?
Kaloswolfgaming jw thats all kinda figured they didnt if they did this shit wouldnt happen lol
chris palmer
lol but still when it's a fair trials game he connections seems better and more stable than in control or iron banana
but if they did have them then i wouldnt be wasting full arc blade on 1 person 2 kill em lmao xD
I hope Bungie nerfs the exotic Hand Cannons. But I hope they don't over nerf them, like Auto Rifles. I don't want an endless cycle of over buffing or over nerfing weapons.
They don't need to Nerf hand cannons... Just the thorn and TLW as due the perks they have rediculous kill times, while other hand cannons are strong they are definitely not broken
Niall Jones thorn I agree with, tlw not so much, hip fire headshots can be 2HK but at the same time, hip fire headshots are a SOB to hit, thorn however 2HK while ads headshots, easy to get
Niall Jones Correct. The only hand cannons that need to be looked at are the Exotic hand cannons. All others are pretty well balanced.
funk the world you do realize that if they nerf thorn and tlw, hawkmoon will get a nerd too right
***** Yeah, all 3 exotic hand cannons need a nerf. Hawkmoon is still kinda bad, but definitely not anywhere near as bad as TLW or Thorn. Hawkmoon's only issues are it's range and the fact that one bullet can receive more than one damage bonus from it's perks. Other than that it's pretty balanced imo.
THIS IS THE TRUEST FUCKING CRUCIBLE VIDEO I HAVE EVER WATCHED. Hands down, couldn't of said everything you said in this video any better myself. I love you.
It will take a solid PVP FPS game to come out on current gen before Bungie fixes their mess of a game. Once people start leaving they will try to win them back. It's hard to believe this is the same company that created Halo.
Don't forget Activision's the publisher. With that in mind, it's not hard to believe.
Also, the guy who was in charge of MP for halo left bungie
One person doesn't make a video game
Bungie are a complete joke, there is no way these are the guys that made the beloved Halo.
***** Activision's the publisher, and the publisher has more power than the developer. If bungie never signed the contract with activision, destiny would've been better
dagoxo7arius Agreed. Bungie sold their soul and we all suffer when trying to play their game. Oh and that Luke Smith interview was a fiasco.....
I loved this meta at the time it was happening and looking back now nearly in May 2017 I want this meta even more now
#buffprimaries
#nerfspecials
Objectively Opinionated #nerfshotguns
Objectively Opinionated
# NERFSHOTGUNS
Red Devil
For weapons, do you think Bungie should go to a regular patch (as in weekly or monthly), similar to what Creative Assembly did for Rome 2 Total War?
I'm from the future, WE NEED TO GO BACK
I can't believe I actually miss this meta. Look at what it was like when you could actually hit things with hand cannons.
Must have been awesome! Too bad I didn't get into destiny until taken king :(
Let's forget that 1 thing has nothing to do with the other. Tell me something, are high impact autos still shit because of balance?
How many high impact pulses exist in year 2?
Hancannons were nerfed because bungie wanted people to use something else, the class itself was never OP.
honestly i like this game but there are way too many game games out or coming out for me to sit and rage. im really done with destiny till they really do an overhall in pvp. its got to the point that literally everyone is shooting a last word or thorn at once.
Then play PvE
Allen Bell why would i replay that when i can play the 100s of other games that are out and better to play (ex. witcher or batman). yeah i can wait till then.
TheMinechronicles and destiny is for grown adults? if youre going to troll try harder friend
Linkin P90X feel the burn
TheMinechronicles It apears we have a wild 5 year old minecrafter on loose.
Excellent commentary dude! Well said, very much on point. I use the last word every time I go into the crucible because I feel like I have no other choice, I used to use auto rifles but we all know how that went. I hope Bungie watches this video.
Watched this for nostalgia, HBU?
Evan Coffey Miss this meta. Never play pvp for fun anymore, I just play to get my Shaxx bounties complete.
You only appreciate something after it's gone.
Puddle so true
How crucible>>>>ttk crucible
Lol back then there needed to be nerfs. In TTK, pulses were only good because everything else was bad. If MIDA was in year 2 then, and legendary hand cannons were never touched and autos were returned back to original stability and a small damage buff, most things would be viable. Now, if bungie nerfs one more thing for being used because everything else got nerfed, the crucible will be demolished. Bring back year 1 classes, and my suggested primary balence. return shotguns to TTK form. return snipers. fusion rifles to year 1 standard. finally, make every machine gun able to carry 35 bullets from a heavy box. you're not supposed to go on a 10 streak using heavy only. comment suggestions.
+Matt Stevens mida is in year 2 and i wish it wasnt
TTK Crucible < RoI Crucible < HoW Crucible < TDB Crucible < Vanilla Crucible
Eros Reyes i think ROI crucible was worse, just for the simple fact that we had already had about 200 days of the same meta, and then the clever dragon was introduced to the game, and... well, we didnt get any change to it untill 4 or 5 months after roi was released
Really? I LOVED TTK CRUCIBLE
DattoDoesDestiny thank you. Just....thank you. I was worried I was (and everyone else complaining) were being little panzies about the state of the crucible. But hearing it from you is awesome. So again! Thank you.
I'm here from the future to tell you these were the golden days of destiny.
Am I the only one who enjoyed year one more than ttk
no you are not. pretty much every y1 player likes Y1 the best. Y1 was the most fun Destiny has ever been.
WhatTheFeebas agreed
Oh how wrong we were...
GiantNic no, that meta fucking sucked. At least we can use different weapons now
Really wrong 😂
Thank you Datto for doing this video! You're bang on for a lot of stuff that I felt needed changing that was left untouched by Bungie for the longest time.
I wish i can go back to these times.. regardless of its flaws. it was golden
Hell no bro. Crucible was so annoying to play with only a small group of guns dominating
The only meta that had a skill gap and people complained because they couldn’t win a gunfight. RIP Fun
I use The Devil You Know, LDR and Thunderlord and wreck with it. People need to try other weapons.
Evil Lynx Hygiea Noblesse/Devil you Know, Her Benevolence, Wolves' Bane. Wreck fools in PvP just fine.
People really do just need to suck less and use other weapons.
well aren't you a special snowflake
Sweaty Spaghetti
I assume that you're one of those sucky people who need to suck less at crucible?
Evil Lynx Lol We all know if you're good enough you can wreck with anything heck I sometime use monte carlo but its still an handicape. I win simply beacause i'm much better. but on equal ground these gun will reck your ass.
Ok go have fun with your autorifles
Nice video Datto! Thanks for bringing all this up. I really like the pvp side of this game, but dealing with the problems for this long is beating me down.
All nerfs must stay in PvP though because there isn't really any OP weapon in PvE unless Gjallahorn is considered one.
813LoneWolf damn right g-horns WPR are 2 op ive seen ppl get 1 shoted at full hp by it >.>
813LoneWolf they have proven that they can make changes exlusive for each mode (shotguns getting their damage in PvE buffed etc) so there is no reason why they should harm the state of play in PvE for the sake of PvP. At least I hope they dont. I really just want ARs back in PvE. PvP has a lot more to be done
Fatebringer, black hammer, Gjallarhorn are all OP. Not complaining tho cuz I love them all dearly
josh robinson my bread and butter :)
josh robinson black hammer is situational
who would have thought how bad it'd be after the age of triumph patch with the icebreaker/sidearm meta
You know I wish Bungie would just straight up fix Crucible and PvP in general. Remove all Final Round Snipers, Balance Exotic Hand cannons and certain other powerful guns for PvP only. Remove Blink from the game. Have certain exotics become subclass specific. Reduce Lag. Balance map spawns to prevent spawn trapping tactics and spawn killing. Allow Iron Banner Loss Tokens to be turned in after 5 loses for half the xp gain, solo players shouldn't need to suffer the wraith of teams and miss out on actually ranking up.
These are a few changes that would really benefit the game, all might not agree or like them but it would fix the meta and that is the issue here. At the moment 90% of players are carbon copies of each other in PvP and Teams of 6 have the advantage to be able to lock down a map, lag is just horrid and overall balance is non existent.
( Sorry about Grammar )
The sad thing is everyone will bitch about it
***** Blink is fine.
Trilolicious Its tough love, you do it for the better of the game and those that bitch are selfish. Bungie needs to lay down the law and straight out take a hard look into what players are doing in game and go about fixing the current state the game is in.
How does this sound for a blink nerf:
-disoriented for 0.5 more seconds
-bullet spread increases 7x of the hipfire spread (can't ADS for 2.1 seconds) and slowly returns to normal in 4.2 seconds
-range is decreased to 1/9 of the original value and slowly returns to mormal after 4.2 seconds
With that, blink will hinder shotguns more than help them
I have no problem with blink (mainly because I use it... Not a shotgun blinker) but if they were to Nerf the shotguns and still leave blink the same we would have no problems because without an op shotgun like felwinters or matador it is useless... Try shotgun blinking with a no shotpackage one and you will be ruined constantly... Blink Imo is fine the way it is
Very comprehensive review. I think you covered every point well and are a strong voice for a lot of us guardians whose voice may not be heard as much as yours. I mean, good hell, they stole your raid idea. They listen to you.
Wasn't playing then, but this looks more fun than current Crucible tbh
It was. Despite the imbalance, it was definitely more fun.
So this is the reason D2 has a team shot meta😂🤣
i miss year 1 crucible when there was actually primary gun fights and not snipers everywhere.
You mean fights between exotic hancannons and everyone else being destroyed.
+Lizard Society Still primary gunfights...
Rocko
There's nothing primary in Thorn 2-shotting people at 50 feet making snipers pointless.
There's nothing primary about the TLW having a faster TTK than Heavy's
+Lizard Society TLW is trash i don't know why people say it's good
Rocko
Because hip-fire. There's a steep learning curve but the dps from close range is unparalleled and accuracy from the air is great.
I would still go back to this meta any day.
to all the people saying that this meta is better than the current one ,just dont
I was laughing my butt off when I heard on this video that MIDA can't be used in PVP... now if you go into pvp without a MIDA you're gonna have a rough time
So you prefer passive af players sitting in the back of maps with snipers and using primaries that fire nerf bullets?
This meta is better than D2 meta.....
I understand that this video was based on weapons and time to kill but you forgot to mention sunsinger warlocks. Sunsinger is undoubtedly the bass class in the game.
- They have the best grenades; firebolts with Touch of Flame, Viking Funeral is an absolute joke in pvp.
Their super is also extremely powerful. The ability to self revive with either two grenades, two melees or the ability to disorient opponents is too effective. They have a one hit capability with melees which can hit from ridiculous range, an overshield with said melee and a damage reduction, and they also have full mobility which renders bladedancer the worst super in the game.
-They also have the best exotics. I don't even have to explain this, just look for yourself.
Overall, they are completely ridiculous and cannot be outmatched. And don't even get me started on PVE, bungie pls nerf
It's so easy to kill a self rez warlock lol it takes like a shotgun blast and a Melee to kill em. I use pocket infinity and it wrecks em
MrNacho3o3 or just watch their body with the old LDR or efrideets :P
Completly agree with the sunsinger. However, I main a titan, and I always feel at a disadvantage. I've seen so many throwing knife kills across map that shouldnt be possible in an fps game. Yes titans do have shoulder charge. Any good player will one shot you with Felwinters or mow you down will last word when you rush. The defender class super is trash. Nova Bomb your dead. Golden Gun dead. Arc Blade dead. Do I have to mention that suppression grenades dont work 50% of the time? I love my titan and do well with it (1.22 kd) but little things like this make me want to change classes that are op...*cough* Blink Hunters and Warlocks *cough*. Im not complaining, just saying the titan is a little underpowered.
Toki Wartooth Completely agree with this sentiment! Look at how overpowered the ram is.
Forgot to metion that none of the top 20-25 players are titans ;(
TIL Datto and the community thought they were going to fix the crucible, but instead turned this game into garbage. You complained about no damage dropoff now we all hate it. This community will never be happy with the crucible. Bungie should have never listened and left the meta alone from day one. Every match now is who has the most special ammo... *sigh* #buffprimaries
could another possible way to help balance thorn be that maybe introduce some other legendary weapons that have a DOT type of their own? in conjunction with the range and slight damage nerf I think this could help balance the crucible. I also like the idea of a NO EXOTIC PVP mode would be cool,voluntary of course.
I agree completely with everything said in this video.
Ayyyy lmao! How's it been? The move go over okay?
Everything's great! Just interviewing for some jobs right now and gathering clips.
Sliq111 Good luck!
Oh my God replace the word thorn with clever dragon and last word with palindrome
thor sampson omfg yess
Guess what the meta is: time capsule edition
Hey Datto its 2020 and I know we'd all rather D1 crucible than D2 eyes up Guardians
> be DATTO
> gets carried in trials
> sucks at pve
> sucks at pvp
> makes a vid complaining
> complains about ttk
> complains about reforge
> complains about all pre dlcs rolls
> uses delusional data
> complains about "blink"
> complains about G&H
> "enjoys" for "fun" at beta ( kek )
> willing to bet he complained about Vex and Suros
If Bungie listens to this casual in the next 5 months
> Be DATTO
> gets carried in TTK
> complains about Midas and Scouts Rifles
> Mida Time to kill 2 fast
> makes up random Mida metas
> complains about new re rolls in armor and weps
> makes a cry vid
> sir wallen loses all respect
> cycle continues tooooooo
If bungie listens to this casual after this
> Be DATTO
> gets carried in Destiny 2
> complains about Red Death and Pulse Rifles
> Red Death time to kill 2 fast
> makes up random Red Death metas
> complains about something bungie added
> makes a cry vid
> triplewreck still destroying ppl with NLB against thorns/SRs/Blinks etc
> cycle continues
If bungie listens to this casual again
> Be DATTO
> gets carried in TTQ expansion for Destiny 2
> complains about next exotic and its legendary cousin
> makes up random Exotic metas
> complains about something something bungie did/not
> NLB gets nerf cuz is soo OP
> cycle continues
10 year Destiny project is finally here
> Be Datto
> Still gets carried
> complains about blues and green weapons cryptarch gives out too Op
> makes up random blue/green metas
> complains about Destiny only being 10 years
> something gets nerfed
> moves onto next game
Honestly, I get it, you whine and can't compete against Thorns/TLW/Blinks. K, we get it u suck. I have gone flawless every weekend, with Midas, SatterinenRapiers, Prudence Sniper, No blinks, even Timurs Lash, shit I even had one guy first ToO weekend in my team rick roll Thorners with a Venation with Luck in chamber and Final round. Riddle me that Batman.
Stop destroying this game with nerfs. Just bring bAck Vex and Suros to its former glory and thats the only way to have variation. I have gone against Everyshot him and his thorn blink shotgun and destoryed him with Universal Remote.
Fuck sakes, nerfs ruin games. Just keep old stats of autos and vex.
Also u bitch about pre dlc rolls on wepz? Field scout? FS is Op? Plz.
Games have gone to waste and became unplayable and unjoyable due to weekly nerfs, even if it wasnt competitive pvp but pve...just look over at Mass Effect 3 and the crying of children like you about having more kills with a weapon even tho its PVE. Get over it, no one complained about how shitty AR was in Halo 1/2/3 and how it need it a buff.
r3mxd Probably the coolest story I've ever read.
r3mxd I would like to say something, just because Datto complains about Thorn being too op it doesn't mean that he sucks. This Is something I notice, I've used the Thorn and it's too op, you can't 2 shot headshot with hawkmoon (normal bullets) whereas with the Thorn you can. Same thing applies to sniper shotguns, I've used them and they are too op, speacially if in the hands of those who literally don't use a primary. And Finnaly, in Destiny I think that weapons should be balanced, therefore all weapons should be as good, making the decision of what weapon you want to use in the crucible be only about players' choise and not because you have to use a Thorn otherwise you will be in a disadvantage.
Destiny Inc. While you present a decent argument, the issue is to actually pick up the Thorn is a feat within itself.
Not to mention the fact that its not a Thorn, TLW meta only anyway.
Everyone knows that if someone shoots with thorn, close the distance. They can't shoot well at close range, no matter the 2 shot kill. If you get up in someones face and jumping around. At close range, the thorn can't keep up. So you can either use shotguns, or you could use machine guns.
The Last Word
This is admittedly my favorite weapon because its just so cowboy. I just like it.
This actually has led me to learn something about it.
It has no range, you can kill the last word at far medium range on. It can't, in fact won't go father. Use that. If you know an enemy is trying to hide in a corner, throw a grenade to get em moving and shoot em from a distance while they panic because they can't kill you as easily as they used to.
Fel-Winters lie
I don't have this weapon because I'm not good enough to pick one up, albeit, I've seen enough to know.
This is a harder one to counter, shearly because of its abnormal range. Though, there is a counter that can be easily employed if you watch for the opening. If they blink at you. It means they're predicting your position. As soon as they make the first jump, most players won't stop mid blink to track you. Jump right through them as they blink. I've had this happen to me. Its incredibly disorienting to have happen. You immediately turn around and find that they're already twice as far and shooting you. Try again? I don't think so.
The reason you were killed with other weapons and not the three the the video says are the only viable ones, is because damage, was set to be that way. Its a bad fix to matchmaking. Make everything equal so everyone can play together. Well, it kinda works with the lower class weapons but with exotics. Not so much. So people who don't have these 3 are left to their own devices and arise better skilled then the rest because the worked against the meta. Everyone practiced against the 3 and when something new comes along. They fall flat. This is actually why I prefer using the Last word in conjuncture with a less used weapon. It makes it more fun, and if I have a target that needs it. My last word will give me a boost, provided its in range, isn't too close where I can't aim at it or that my target isn't behind cover. Think about weaknesses and see how they can be exploited before you ask for nerfs.
But that is just my two sense
Dalton Morzos About Thorn not being good at close range, Yes it's true it can't keep up at close range. But that is why people suit their play style to whatever weapon they're using. If im using a Thorn I could maybe try to stay in at medium range, never engaging close combats.
In what concerns The Last Word I don't think it needs a nerf, I only think it needs a bug fix. Quite often if you are aiming down sights with The Last Word you can get a headshot damage increase as if you were hip firing.
Finnaly, yes you can sometimes try to counter a blink shotgunner. But the main problem isn't blink. The problem is that with such an enourmous range you can get killed unexpectedly and unfairly, forcing you to use a shotgun to be able to counter them.. And you don't have a fellwinters? Guess what, by playing normal crucible you can just get a Party Crasher + 1 or a Matador 64 which can even be better then the fellwinters, which just made this an even bigger issue.
r3mxd Actually I'd really like things to get nerfed in Crucible. I'm tired of dying in half a second. I had hoped a Bungie game wouldn't be exactly like COD with its TTK.
I’d take this any day over d2, honestly this was the most fun I’ve ever had in a video game.
LOL, if only we knew what Destiny 2 crucible was going to be like.
You nailed everything. Great job. Hope Bungie will take what was said with humility and respect. I'm sure since they used your videos in the special 7/7 Bungie day video that they have seen and listened
Who is here from daygon's video?
me
Datto is scrub #confirmed
Veinq Well thorn usually has to be countered by thorn/TLW then we're going on to Red death which is not OP ._.
Secksie_ Mandoodle I was joking. It's sad though that exotics are the only valid go-to weapons in the game right now. Red Death is a great weapon for sure.
Lemme guess: you don't want your crutches nerfed
Carter Lewis Exactly. I'm too much of a scrublord without Thorn.
Veinq then crucible isn't for you. Its supposed to be 2 teams 'challenging' each other but no challenge with thorn
The thing that I hate is how people go sweaty try hard in REGULAR CRUCIBLE! Like wtf, after a while it just ruins the game
Joe Pitchford ikr. I just wanna use Universal remote and MIDA
Joe Pitchford Just because someone is actually good and the game and can consistently get kills doesn't mean they're "try hards" lol and what is everyone just not supposed to actually try to do good at the game?so basically you are saying everyone should just not try in Crucible bcuz omg tryhards dood zo bad
Until Iron Banner and Trials are always around 24/7, you can't expect the most competitive players not to be in REGULAR CRUCIBLE, quit crying that you've been killed by someone better than you.
TheInfinitePwm
the thing is that they're using all the sweaty try hard weapons in regular crucible where a lot of people just want to have fun
And now we have D2...@datto would you rather have this meta or d2s current meta?
Who's here after d2 lanched
Me. I would love to have this meta back.
And now look at the meta :(
4 times the variety of this year 1 garbage.
Eros Reyes I barely even see people's problems with the current meta
matador...matador... and more matador. #nerfshotguns
Jack McCarthy That's because you are "that dude" that uses it and can't comprehend that it's the only thing 70% of people in the game can use; an actual statistic from the last month of crucible
Spencer Whitcomb actually its the opposite. I don't use the meta to counter the meta purely because that makes the problem worse. In fact the weapon I have been playing with the most lately is a sidearm to make sure the shotgunners get melted once in close range. Im not saying that this meta is perfect but its been worse and I would take this meta over the uni remote meta and thorn meta any day. Also don't just assume you know how I play the game based off one comment I made.
Damn this game was fun back then................
Great video, always nice to hear coherent guardians speak their mind.
Playing thru the Crucible since day one, it does suck seeing how certain weapons always end up being the most used. Having distinct perks is what got me interested in collecting as many weapons as possible... but then Bungie/Destiny went the way of copy/paste with most of the recent weapons, even offered less with the newest gear.
Seems like Bungie is well aware of the weapons and issues, I get the feeling their waiting till the Taken King addition so that way they can add to the lofty list of things that were updated/fixed. In the mean time, yay for the Red Death finally giving me a fighting chance against all the Thorns being used @_@