Clever. Instead of directly linking RIA in the description box, you link your own website and through that people can find the RIA link, thus hopefully bypassing the TH-cam regulations and bringing more traffic to your site, which is, by the way, academically invaluable.
DroehnIng I never said this was about making money mate. I just said it's a good way to avoid TH-cam policy screwing you over. And Forgotten Weapons is still monetised. It's InRange that isn't. I don't run AdBlocker for FW and I have been getting a few ads for some of the recent videos.
“Dirty Harry” would’ve been a real short movie if he been carrying one of these. “I know what you’re thinking. Has he fired 1 shot or only...uh...shit.”
Thanks for covering this interesting pistol. I couldn't find one I wanted back when I was looking for this type of pistol so I bought a Competitor CP-1. Huge mistake. The self-cocking "feature" made the gun nearly useless. It required a huge amount of force to open the firearm, relative to the amount of space available to grab that rear rotating section. The aftermath of every shot was like trying to open a stuck lid on a can of pickles. In addition, because all that effort was going into cocking the gun using a mechanism with next to no mechanical advantage (leverage), extraction efficacy was sacrificed. The Competitor came with a (weakly) spring-loaded extractor that, as often as not, failed to move the cartridge at all. The only way to get a Competitor to adequately extract was to snap it open hard and quick so that the spring-loaded extractor could hit the fired case suddenly. Unfortunately, the action was so hard to operate it tended to open slowly, causing the extractor to be slowly released, causing the extraction to fail. Nevertheless, I used it in silhouette competition. To overcome the problem cited above, I actually designed and built a wrench to fit the rear of the action. I used that to open it. Opening it by hand for a 40 round match would have left me with hands trembling so badly I'd be unable to shoot before I was half done. Other problems with the Competitor? Primer strikes were light and shooting surplus ammo in it was an exercise in "click, wait 30 seconds, open action, try again, repeat" over and over and over again. I don't know why they even chambered for 7.62x39 since the design could not consistently fire any of the ammo on the market at the time. About the only thing the Competitor had going for it was that you could get it in any chambering you wanted. If you wanted a 10" .257 Wby, it was right there in the catalog. .458 Lott? No problem. The list of chamberings was, iirc, 4 multi-column pages long and included dozens of wildcats I'd never before heard of. As for me, I consider the Competitor pistol to be a useful throwline sinker. The SSP-91 and the Lone Eagle, with their separate cocking levers, may look inelegant but they are a far better design than the Competitor. When CDNN sold off the last of the Lone Eagles for very low prices...well...I'm still kicking myself. They even had some of the rather rare accessories such as scope bases and iron sights. The only real problem with these pistols, no matter which iteration, is that they were extremely rear-weight-biased. All the heavy stuff was behind your shooting hand and extended a long way back. In a hard-kicking caliber, you had to remember to never line up the bore with your forearm. If you do, the gun will twist the muzzle so far skyward in recoil that the back of the action will solidly impact your forearm. This is definitely a two-handed design. Let the back of that gun recoil between two forearms and you may hyper-extend and injure your wrists but at least you won't get a goose egg that looks like someone hit you with a framing hammer on your forearm, just behind your thumb joint. Is there any need to ask me how I know this? Side note - The last time I saw an SSP-91 sold at auction it was at a small, semi-rural auction house in southeast Texas about 5 years ago. The pistol was chambered in .30-06 and was in decent shape. I wanted it and could have probably had it for $200-$300, given the way the bidding was going on the huge number of guns being sold that day. For some reason, though, the auctioneer decided to completely stop the flow of the auction and launch into a long speech about how incredibly powerful and special this pistol was. I saw people all over the room look up from their catalogs and start bidding solely based on his patter. It sold for, iirc, ~$1100, an idiotically high price. With that in mind, I ask that you please include this item in your after-action video where you report for how much the guns sell. In my opinion, this thing should go for pocket change. Given that it's been lumped into a lot with another much more interesting pistol, I'm guessing the auctioneers feel the same. But I'm still curious; weird things happen at auctions.
So you aren't allowed to hunt with rifles but rifle caliber pistol is fine... This rule must have been a highlight in a life of some nameless bureaucrat .
It's mostly for flat high population density places, like the east coast and some parts of the midwest, by limiting to shotgun slugs and straight wall handgun rounds you don't get misses traveling miles like a rifle will. However, the laws aren't specific enough to name cartridge types, just kinds of guns
Where i am it is (as far as I know) great restrictions on what kind of weapons you can hunt with, all with animal cruelty as justification. You can't hunt with bows or crossbows, pistols or underpowered guns (so, you can't hunt big game with a cartridge made for small game or fowl). Having suppressors and optics are encouraged due to higher likelyhood of getting a clean kill and safer shooting. Banning hunting with rifles, but not handguns just sounds so ass-backwards to my ears. The chances of getting wounding hits must be astronomical in comparison to using a proper rifle. And noone (bar sickos) wants to just wound the animal, rather than kill it.
Taeerom We have caliber restrictions/minimums and all that too. The places that don't allow rifles are specifically because they are flat and have a decent population around, a rifle round will travel miles in the case of a miss, whereas a .44 magnum or shotgun slug, which are more than adequate for killing deer, will not travel nearly as far nor remain lethal for as long. Most of the US you can use anything you want that is deemed acceptable for whatever species you're going after, this is just places where rifles are more of a risk. The fact that this particular pistol can be used in those places is just vague laws not taking into account things like it (a pistol in a rifle round) existing. Also since when are bows/crossbows not lethal enough? Here we usually just have a minimum draw weight to insure it's powerful enough, a proper weight bow will kill anything in North America, including moose and grizzlies.
a 75-lb bow (recurve or compound) is plenty good enough for boar, I know that much. And where I lived in Georgia had lots of little subdivisions of houses interspersed with the woods, so I can see the restrictions on rifles making some sense.
Yup. That's exactly how most places that bar rifles are. And yeah, any heavier draw (I think like 90lb and up, but don't quote me on that I'm not an archery guy) bow can take any north american game. Bows are really powerful, they worked great for a long ass time before guns came around
I have one in 35 Remington. I ended up with it as the original owner never picked it back up after I did a trigger job on it. The Magnum Research example I have is crude and poorly finished. It does shoot quite well but as you can imagine, the recoil and muzzle blast is intense. It's a very clumsy thing to carry. It's rear heavy and that doesn't help the recoil at all. It will indeed hit you right in the eye with an ejected empty. I drag it out of the safe whenever anyone starts bragging about recoil not bothering them.
slowpokebr549 ummmm..... I said pistol recoil doesn’t bother me. High pressure round like super fast rifle makes me cry. Ack, this thing is a single shot because you probably won’t be shooting it a second time in a hurry. (.22-250 would be pretty excellent though.)
slowpokebr549 how does the breech stay closed and or how does one prevent an out of battery fire? this looks like it could get loose and not lock up quite right
As for out of battery fire.....the firing pin isn't lined up until it rotates completely closed. Also, the striker has to be manually cocked every time. The action itself is massive and very positive in it's opening and closing. It does inspire confidence when you are messing with it. There are, after all, artillery pieces using this system. It's very simple and reliable, albeit clumsy at this scale.
Just without the, you know, discretion. I was wondering if there were threaded barrel versions, but it would be getting pretty huge by then, wouldn't it? This reminds me that I wanted a Thompson Contender as a kid, I can't remember why! I guess it's a a good thing I never got one!
This is actually so badass. Would buy one in an instant. So much sturdier than any of those other rifle caliber single shots that are tiny and impractical as hell. This looks like I could fire it for days.
Ian for future reference this gun cannot safely be dry fired with the breech in the closed position as the firing pin will be damaged and need to be replaced after just a few times. It can be dry fired safely in the open position.
@@Aliyah_666 I was just about to say, how big a silencer are we talking? With standard loads you'd need a silencer the length of a bus!😂 Not gonna lie, it would be pretty epic though.
Ean, my name is Al Martin and I designed and developed the very first ejector for rimless cartridges for this pistol. I did it at the request of one of the original investors who's name was George Hochsteder (not sure of the spelling) I was paid with two rifles.
Have you tried to contact him elsewhere? I think he would find you interesting to talk to. I think he has gotten more into the community side of things in the last year.
I read that as "big groin" for some reason, and my immature ass laughed for a solid minute. Excuse me while I go have a smoke and figure out wtf is wrong with me.😂
@@thatguyoverthere9634 I guess since the gasses escape much earlier they don't have to continue pushing the projectile so it's not pushing against you as much.
I had an uncle, before he passed away, that had one of these in 30-06 and shot it quite often! He had no problems with the recoil and put many rounds through it......... but he also happened to be 6 foot 6 and 400 pounds in weight ! 😊 His hands were so big that this gun looked like he was holding a Derringer ! I fired it ONCE ! 😫
I had the opportunity to fire one of these, in .243, around 1992 or so. As a former naval artillerist, I remember being impressed by the “cannon breech”. I also remember it being a bit of a handful to shoot.
Ian, I have personally owned 3 of these all made by Ordinance Tech. They may be ugly but MAN don't they shoot! Mine were in 357 maximum, 444 Marlin and 44 mag. I mounted Aimpoints on mine. We had a whole crowd of us here in Maine using these. Some in competition and also hunting.( I have a deer and a bear to my credit with the 44 mag version.) I also loaded down indoor range cast bullets for competition and small game hunting. We often drilled through the grip and installed a trigger stop screw to cut down on overtravel, and filled the hollow grip with bondo so a swivel could be added to the bottom of the grip. Add a barrel band and a sling and you can carry this easily. All in all a sweet shooting but clunky looking pistol! Great review!
Rob Brown Very true, they were extremely accurate, 1/2 MOA was nothing for these things. My grandpa had one in 30-06 and 308, the 30-06 recoil was pretty much unbearable for more than 2 shots and the muzzle blast would rattle everything in a 500 ft radius BUT it would hit 1/4 MOA all day, the .308 was more gentle but didn't shoot as well, probably 1 MOA.
Rob Brown Thanks for your various comments above and below regarding these fascinating weapons and their wide range (pardon the pun) of calibers. These kinds of personal reminiscences truly bring the weapons to life as one can gain a much better appreciation for the everyday nuances of their usage. Thank you again for sharing this with your viewers. Best wishes!
union steel you read my mind . In the 80's I was in my twenties. Back then you could see every kind of contraptions and you knew that they were crap. Nowadays they are the same crap, but older .
I have one of these .444Marlin. Mine has a muzzle brake and it is a fire breather,lol. I bought it from an owner that hated it for $150 a few years ago. I take it out every now and then when I want an adrenaline rush.
My state changed our stupid deer hunting laws. I had to build a 300 blackout AR pistol because it was illegal to use that caliber in a rifle. Now I can use a rifle in 300 blackout.
Ian, please note that the Lone Eagle had a more shapely / svelte schnabel-style forend, as opposed to the blocky front of the SSP-91, so slight change to the stock when Magnum Research / IMI took over.
Ian, there is no one, no one, who can compare the level of firearms geekery, knowledge as you. Your channel is outstanding. Your dedication to the cause is incomparable. I humbly salute your intellectual fortitude and commitment. ♠️
I had a Contender with a barrel chambered in .45-70. I have to shoot lefty due to an eye problem. First shot was pretty accurate, second nearly as good. Third shot on I might as well have been throwing rocks. It wasn't exactly like having somebody return your high five with a baseball bat, but close enough to it that follow up shots were really limited.
I have a Encore in 7mm-08 and it doesn't hurt to shoot at all. It's too heavy to shoot offhanded with any kind of accuracy though, you pretty much have to set it on a rest. Or do like I did and put a pistol 'brace' on it :)
I had one of the Pre Magnum Research versions in 357 Herrett, and loved the gun but hated the caliber due to it being handload only. I would love another in either 223 or 308.
Back when I was a gunsmith one of these was traded to my shop for another gun. It was a Lone Eagle in 7mm but I don't remember the exact caliber. I was tempted to buy it as a hunting gun but my state requires straight walled cartridges, so I let it go.
Very interesting. You really only need one bullet if you can shoot. I like the idea of changing the caliber for large and small game or whatever. Does it have a kick?
Jesus Christ 30-06 in a handgun? Is the deer worth double wrist replacement surgery? Also I cracked up when he couldn't think of the Desert Eagle. Haha If it's any consolation, I'd never have recovered. We'd need to cut so I could figure out the line. Then I'd probably fuch it up again.
I fired one of these in .308. The kick was not nearly as bad as one would expect. It was more like a straight rearward shove, rather than a sharp kick. The grip is thick and comfortable, as well.
Have one in 30-06 and it isn't that bad on the wrist. You can shoot a box without any pain, but if you wanted a little less kick they also sold the 30-06 version with a built in muzzle brake. Never fired one of those but would imagine the gas pushed back your way would be substantial, in mine the fireball out the end of the barrel was about 3 feet in diameter and you felt the concussion in your chest when you shot it.
Id actually really like a rifle with this loading system.maybe in 300 win mag or 6.5 creedmoore, on a aluminum chassis... Im sure this would make an incredible 50 bmg platform.
Still waiting for part two, the disassembly. I want to see why that thing sticks together after repeated firing! In the right caliber and a longer barrel it would be great for deer here in Iowa where we can't hunt deer with rifles.
I haven't hunted here in the 6 years I've lived in Iowa, but I always thought we had that restriction due to it being nothing but corn and little towns. with very little in the way of anything to stop a missed shot. You can hunt with Muzzle loading rifles after all.
DFX2KX Stupid restriction, anyone that's not hunting deer are free to shoot their high powered rifles year round in the same corn fields and small towns. Plenty of responsible hunters here in Iowa and many are hunting down in timber covered valleys far away from what people think of when they think of the Iowa countryside.
My name is Al Martin. I live in Woonsocket Rhode Island and I made the first auto extractor/ejector for this gun to fire rimless cartridges. The project was brought to me by a man named George Hocshteder......not sure about the spelling..... I was paid with two rifles for the work. The big difference with this gun is recoil.
Hey Ian, I really enjoyed your video on the Ribeyrolles 1918 and found it very interesting. I've recently been looking at ww2 weapons (following the announcement of battlefield V) and come across the Polish resistance submachine gun, the Blyskawisca (lightning) sub machine gun and as I'm of polish decent (my great grandad was polish and fought for the royal air force as a bomber pilot and became a veteran) is find it most interesting to see you explain how the firearm that the Poles used to stave off the Nazi invaders whilst being occupied. It'd be immeasurably appreciated
One of the stupidest goddamn laws of one of the 50 states, no you cant use the most logical option to shoot that game that is best taken down with a rifle
The only other time I've ever seen anything about these was in an old video that started out with a guy in sunglasses blowing away fruit in slow motion with a Desert Eagle...
I love it when FW does one of those unusual guns you saw being mentioned here and there, but where you never got the finer details because like so many, they remain obscure at best.
I know I'm not ian but a slamfire shotgun made from 2 pipes and I used my buddy makeshift stock hurt like hell and nearly killed me in terms of ergonomics
I know some short barrel rifle ballistics have been really well studied, but in something like 30-06 what would the stats look like here? I assume it's gonna lose a bunch of velocity but would it be enough to matter for hunters?
I remember seeing this pistol in a Gun Digest article from the mid-80's The gun in the article was chambered for .30-30. This pistol is responsible for sparking my interest in rifle calibered handguns. However I chose to go with the T/C Contender platform. The T/C offered a proven design, and could be easily reconfigured to a different caliber by merely changing a barrel. I eventually ended up with barrels chambered for .45-70, .35 Remington, .223, 10mm Auto and .45 Colt/.410. All of my barrels are 14" with the exception of the 10mm Auto which is 10". I still possess and use it to this day.
Thanks for explaining what the Competitor pistols are. There is one in .223 on Guntrader UK with iron sights and a wood laminate grip, just long enough to be legal here.
Flatter higher population density areas like the east coast and some of the mid west do that mostly since a handgun round like .44 mag or a shotgun slug are plenty for deer but won't go miles like a rifle round. Some states also will allow rifles in straight wall cartridges like .44 mag, .45 colt, and .45-70 for the same reason. Basically just to lower the chance of a missed shot hitting something it shouldn't
@@aurorawhorealis Still seems very poorly thought out. Why not just restrict calibers or set a strict limit on muzzle velocity and muzzle energy? I mean restricting stocks will just make hunters less accurate and thus be conducive to poor hits and needless suffering for the animals in question.
@@xilon56 There aren't hunting seasons you are required to use a handgun over a rifle, I'm pretty sure states that let you hunt with a handgun you usually have to use it during general rifle season, or to complicate things further some states that don't allow typical rifles for fear of a miss going too far in a populated area you may use a shotgun firing slugs or short range rifle cartridge like .44 magnum or the new .350 Legend, or, a handgun can be an option in certain states too, while not in others. Handgun hunting is generally a voluntary challenge requiring you to get much closer to the animal, not take risky long range shots with it, similar to hunting with archery equipment. Each state does actually have their own requirements for caliber and energy for a given game species as well, there's a lot of overlap in what cartridges are okay for a given species state to state but equipment requirements can vary a lot. Sorry this got long, this is a complicated topic, each state has wildly different hunting laws and that significantly impacts what equipment you can use. If you're still curious you should look up your own hunting regulations and take a gander and the equipment rules, it may make a little more sense.
I bought one in 7mm-08 too. Once I got it to the range I found out the firing pin was broken . I found one company that sold the firing pins last year but now I can't even find their website any more. When mine shoots it is comfortable to fire but has a fireball the size of a basketball
I wonder how wel lthis thing shoots. .308 is nothing to scoff at and rifles mostly handle it well because of the added weight and the buttstock. It is single shot and not a repeater so you don´t have to worry too much about you losing the target but it still looks like it should have a pretty hard kick to it if you just hold it in your hand unassisted.
John O ́neil The .308 was a walk in the park compared to the other calibers. Also, taught me theres actually big difference between .308 and 30-06. My grandpa owned 2 of these. 1 in .308 and 1 in 30-06. The .308 was very gentle compared to the 30-06. The extra powder behind an '06 is VERY noticeable in these things. The 06' would hop 3 feet off the table, throw a godly sized fireball and rattle everything in a 500 ft radius, all compared the the gentle pop of the .308.
>Worked for Cobray
Oh boy.
>Made the Terminator
*Oh boy.*
Did I fire one shot...or none? I seemed to have lost count in all of this confusion...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
...do ya feel lucky, *punk?*
@@Aaron-zu3xn its a joke
I gosta know....
"We should design something more unpleasant to fire than the 500 S&W revolver"
"I have just the thing"
Now for the .50 version
My xp-100 in 7mm BR is actually quite mild in recoil.
With a long barrel, the 500s&w isn't bad. A snub nosed .454 is much, much worse.
HaCkEr BoT nothing like a handgun chambered in a HMG cartridge
We need one of these with a barrel and chamber made for .50 bmg. We shall call it "The Handbreaker"
Clever. Instead of directly linking RIA in the description box, you link your own website and through that people can find the RIA link, thus hopefully bypassing the TH-cam regulations and bringing more traffic to your site, which is, by the way, academically invaluable.
I was going to comment on how that's annoying, actually.
DroehnIng I never said this was about making money mate. I just said it's a good way to avoid TH-cam policy screwing you over.
And Forgotten Weapons is still monetised. It's InRange that isn't.
I don't run AdBlocker for FW and I have been getting a few ads for some of the recent videos.
Nøderak Apologies, would you like some tequila cured salmon carpaccio with vodka foam?
doesnt stop YT's bot from demonetizing them.
That looks like a hi point. As always, great video.
“Dirty Harry” would’ve been a real short movie if he been carrying one of these.
“I know what you’re thinking. Has he fired 1 shot or only...uh...shit.”
Thanks for covering this interesting pistol. I couldn't find one I wanted back when I was looking for this type of pistol so I bought a Competitor CP-1. Huge mistake.
The self-cocking "feature" made the gun nearly useless. It required a huge amount of force to open the firearm, relative to the amount of space available to grab that rear rotating section. The aftermath of every shot was like trying to open a stuck lid on a can of pickles. In addition, because all that effort was going into cocking the gun using a mechanism with next to no mechanical advantage (leverage), extraction efficacy was sacrificed. The Competitor came with a (weakly) spring-loaded extractor that, as often as not, failed to move the cartridge at all. The only way to get a Competitor to adequately extract was to snap it open hard and quick so that the spring-loaded extractor could hit the fired case suddenly. Unfortunately, the action was so hard to operate it tended to open slowly, causing the extractor to be slowly released, causing the extraction to fail.
Nevertheless, I used it in silhouette competition. To overcome the problem cited above, I actually designed and built a wrench to fit the rear of the action. I used that to open it. Opening it by hand for a 40 round match would have left me with hands trembling so badly I'd be unable to shoot before I was half done.
Other problems with the Competitor? Primer strikes were light and shooting surplus ammo in it was an exercise in "click, wait 30 seconds, open action, try again, repeat" over and over and over again. I don't know why they even chambered for 7.62x39 since the design could not consistently fire any of the ammo on the market at the time.
About the only thing the Competitor had going for it was that you could get it in any chambering you wanted. If you wanted a 10" .257 Wby, it was right there in the catalog. .458 Lott? No problem. The list of chamberings was, iirc, 4 multi-column pages long and included dozens of wildcats I'd never before heard of.
As for me, I consider the Competitor pistol to be a useful throwline sinker.
The SSP-91 and the Lone Eagle, with their separate cocking levers, may look inelegant but they are a far better design than the Competitor. When CDNN sold off the last of the Lone Eagles for very low prices...well...I'm still kicking myself. They even had some of the rather rare accessories such as scope bases and iron sights.
The only real problem with these pistols, no matter which iteration, is that they were extremely rear-weight-biased. All the heavy stuff was behind your shooting hand and extended a long way back. In a hard-kicking caliber, you had to remember to never line up the bore with your forearm. If you do, the gun will twist the muzzle so far skyward in recoil that the back of the action will solidly impact your forearm. This is definitely a two-handed design. Let the back of that gun recoil between two forearms and you may hyper-extend and injure your wrists but at least you won't get a goose egg that looks like someone hit you with a framing hammer on your forearm, just behind your thumb joint. Is there any need to ask me how I know this?
Side note - The last time I saw an SSP-91 sold at auction it was at a small, semi-rural auction house in southeast Texas about 5 years ago. The pistol was chambered in .30-06 and was in decent shape. I wanted it and could have probably had it for $200-$300, given the way the bidding was going on the huge number of guns being sold that day. For some reason, though, the auctioneer decided to completely stop the flow of the auction and launch into a long speech about how incredibly powerful and special this pistol was. I saw people all over the room look up from their catalogs and start bidding solely based on his patter. It sold for, iirc, ~$1100, an idiotically high price.
With that in mind, I ask that you please include this item in your after-action video where you report for how much the guns sell. In my opinion, this thing should go for pocket change. Given that it's been lumped into a lot with another much more interesting pistol, I'm guessing the auctioneers feel the same. But I'm still curious; weird things happen at auctions.
benenglishtx p
I like how Ian barely managed to suppress a giggle when he mentioned the Cobray Terminator.
There's much to giggle about there. Remember that video very well lol
So you aren't allowed to hunt with rifles but rifle caliber pistol is fine...
This rule must have been a highlight in a life of some nameless bureaucrat .
It's mostly for flat high population density places, like the east coast and some parts of the midwest, by limiting to shotgun slugs and straight wall handgun rounds you don't get misses traveling miles like a rifle will. However, the laws aren't specific enough to name cartridge types, just kinds of guns
Where i am it is (as far as I know) great restrictions on what kind of weapons you can hunt with, all with animal cruelty as justification. You can't hunt with bows or crossbows, pistols or underpowered guns (so, you can't hunt big game with a cartridge made for small game or fowl). Having suppressors and optics are encouraged due to higher likelyhood of getting a clean kill and safer shooting.
Banning hunting with rifles, but not handguns just sounds so ass-backwards to my ears. The chances of getting wounding hits must be astronomical in comparison to using a proper rifle. And noone (bar sickos) wants to just wound the animal, rather than kill it.
Taeerom We have caliber restrictions/minimums and all that too. The places that don't allow rifles are specifically because they are flat and have a decent population around, a rifle round will travel miles in the case of a miss, whereas a .44 magnum or shotgun slug, which are more than adequate for killing deer, will not travel nearly as far nor remain lethal for as long. Most of the US you can use anything you want that is deemed acceptable for whatever species you're going after, this is just places where rifles are more of a risk. The fact that this particular pistol can be used in those places is just vague laws not taking into account things like it (a pistol in a rifle round) existing. Also since when are bows/crossbows not lethal enough? Here we usually just have a minimum draw weight to insure it's powerful enough, a proper weight bow will kill anything in North America, including moose and grizzlies.
a 75-lb bow (recurve or compound) is plenty good enough for boar, I know that much. And where I lived in Georgia had lots of little subdivisions of houses interspersed with the woods, so I can see the restrictions on rifles making some sense.
Yup. That's exactly how most places that bar rifles are. And yeah, any heavier draw (I think like 90lb and up, but don't quote me on that I'm not an archery guy) bow can take any north american game. Bows are really powerful, they worked great for a long ass time before guns came around
I have one in 35 Remington. I ended up with it as the original owner never picked it back up after I did a trigger job on it. The Magnum Research example I have is crude and poorly finished. It does shoot quite well but as you can imagine, the recoil and muzzle blast is intense. It's a very clumsy thing to carry. It's rear heavy and that doesn't help the recoil at all. It will indeed hit you right in the eye with an ejected empty. I drag it out of the safe whenever anyone starts bragging about recoil not bothering them.
slowpokebr549 ummmm..... I said pistol recoil doesn’t bother me. High pressure round like super fast rifle makes me cry. Ack, this thing is a single shot because you probably won’t be shooting it a second time in a hurry. (.22-250 would be pretty excellent though.)
May have been an older gentleman who passed away suddenly not long after he sent it to you for work.
slowpokebr549 how does the breech stay closed and or how does one prevent an out of battery fire? this looks like it could get loose and not lock up quite right
slowpokebr549 thanx for the info. Maybe I just want a single shot pistol that looks like that in a pistol caliber? Yeah, that's it.
As for out of battery fire.....the firing pin isn't lined up until it rotates completely closed. Also, the striker has to be manually cocked every time. The action itself is massive and very positive in it's opening and closing. It does inspire confidence when you are messing with it. There are, after all, artillery pieces using this system. It's very simple and reliable, albeit clumsy at this scale.
I actually thought this is a modernized welrod with more style.
Shotgun Gabe it does kinda favor it doesnt it? I kinda had the same thought.
A supressed version if this does make it a modernized welrod but there is already a modernized Variant.
th-cam.com/video/o7tP9s4mm5I/w-d-xo.html
Just without the, you know, discretion. I was wondering if there were threaded barrel versions, but it would be getting pretty huge by then, wouldn't it? This reminds me that I wanted a Thompson Contender as a kid, I can't remember why! I guess it's a a good thing I never got one!
@Sideshow 44 i thought that was carcano
@@thesturm8686 it was
This is actually so badass. Would buy one in an instant. So much sturdier than any of those other rifle caliber single shots that are tiny and impractical as hell. This looks like I could fire it for days.
Thompson Center Encore Pistol is what you are looking for.
Ian for future reference this gun cannot safely be dry fired with the breech in the closed position as the firing pin will be damaged and need to be replaced after just a few times. It can be dry fired safely in the open position.
Slap a suppressor on it and enjoy your 30-06 Welrod :D
All joking aside I bet you could make sub-sonic 30-06 ammo....would be pretty sick
@@Aliyah_666 I was just about to say, how big a silencer are we talking? With standard loads you'd need a silencer the length of a bus!😂 Not gonna lie, it would be pretty epic though.
Ean, my name is Al Martin and I designed and developed the very first ejector for rimless cartridges for this pistol. I did it at the request of one of the original investors who's name was George Hochsteder (not sure of the spelling) I was paid with two rifles.
rifles are the best currency
*Ian
@I AM What were the rifles?
Have you tried to contact him elsewhere? I think he would find you interesting to talk to. I think he has gotten more into the community side of things in the last year.
Liar
B I G I R O N
finn .mov gotta have a strong hip
@Reno Simpson big iron hiiip
Yeah, this is definitely the biggest iron
I read that as "big groin" for some reason, and my immature ass laughed for a solid minute. Excuse me while I go have a smoke and figure out wtf is wrong with me.😂
A literal hand-cannon.
KyleNo4Mk2 BANG! I imagine it has seven times the recoil of a more average pistol m
Bitches love cannons.
FACTS
uhhh huh... 7mm Win Mag is not... small beers
*uhh remington... my my bad was looking at a piccie comparing .284 winchester with the 7mm
A 30-06 pistol? I think id rather try and hold on to the tail of a honeybadger
I had a lone eagle in 308. Recoil wasn't bad(less than a super Redhawk 44 mag
There seems to be a point in barrel length where rifle calibers loose recoil as they get shorter. Just from my experience.
@@thatguyoverthere9634 I guess since the gasses escape much earlier they don't have to continue pushing the projectile so it's not pushing against you as much.
Randy French holding a honey badgers tail 😂😂 brilliant.
Randy French it’s not that bad...500 SW is much worse
I had an uncle, before he passed away, that had one of these in 30-06 and shot it quite often!
He had no problems with the recoil and put many rounds through it......... but he also happened to be 6 foot 6 and 400 pounds in weight ! 😊
His hands were so big that this gun looked like he was holding a Derringer ! I fired it ONCE ! 😫
Condolences to him & your hand!
Idk why i find this thing so awesome, & I wish to made a modern 1! :DDDD
I had the opportunity to fire one of these, in .243, around 1992 or so. As a former naval artillerist, I remember being impressed by the “cannon breech”. I also remember it being a bit of a handful to shoot.
I love how you can't even talk about the terminator without cracking up.
If ever there was a pistol worthy of the moniker "Hand Cannon". Surely this is it.
I can envision the marketing materials...
“Loads faster than a musket!”
“Sniper SSP-91: one shot, one kill.”😉
"Most rifles only hurt your shoulder - the Lone Eagle wrecks your WHOLE ARM"
Needs a side folding pistol brace... :D
And a clip-on bipod.
I like the way you think.
Needs a arm brace and longer barrel about 20 inchs.
Justin Riley that makes zero sense. At that length one could utilize a regular stock.
M. S. L. That was a joke obviously over your head.
Why does it look like a pipe on an mp5 trigger pack?
Ian, I have personally owned 3 of these all made by Ordinance Tech. They may be ugly but MAN don't they shoot! Mine were in 357 maximum, 444 Marlin and 44 mag. I mounted Aimpoints on mine. We had a whole crowd of us here in Maine using these. Some in competition and also hunting.( I have a deer and a bear to my credit with the 44 mag version.) I also loaded down indoor range cast bullets for competition and small game hunting. We often drilled through the grip and installed a trigger stop screw to cut down on overtravel, and filled the hollow grip with bondo so a swivel could be added to the bottom of the grip. Add a barrel band and a sling and you can carry this easily. All in all a sweet shooting but clunky looking pistol! Great review!
I should also add that we used a woodrasp and sandpaper to reshape the grip to more comfortably fit your hand.
Rob Brown Very true, they were extremely accurate, 1/2 MOA was nothing for these things. My grandpa had one in 30-06 and 308, the 30-06 recoil was pretty much unbearable for more than 2 shots and the muzzle blast would rattle everything in a 500 ft radius BUT it would hit 1/4 MOA all day, the .308 was more gentle but didn't shoot as well, probably 1 MOA.
Rob Brown Thanks for your various comments above and below regarding these fascinating weapons and their wide range (pardon the pun) of calibers. These kinds of personal reminiscences truly bring the weapons to life as one can gain a much better appreciation for the everyday nuances of their usage. Thank you again for sharing this with your viewers. Best wishes!
why would you kill a bear? Did you eat it? In virginia (my home state) there are only 18,000 of them. I'll stick to shooting deer
@@eljamo93 Really....... 🙄
The fireball from those styles of guns must have been massive
One more for the "Soon to be featured in a Star Wars production" list.
Add the scope and a fancy muzzle break and yes it would be perfect
So, technically it's a bullpup?
I suppose so.
That...made my head hurt. Haha
In the same way that a pop-tart can _technically_ be argued to fit within the definition of a sandwich, yes.
@@GaldirEonai what are you talking about, a Pop-Tart is a calzone
@@zrspangle And a calzone falls under sandwiches.
I love how you kinda mutter Desert Eagle under your breath, Ian.
That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a Mk. I Desert Eagle on the channel.
I saw a Competitor variant for sale locally in 6.5x55. Quite a beast, and probably a fire breather with the relatively short barrel.
I knew I should have bought a few of these back then. I would like to see you fire that piece.
A boss of mine years ago had on in .375 H&H, .338 Winchester Magnum, among others.
Once you said he designed the cobray terminator , i figured this gun would be crap too.
union steel you read my mind . In the 80's I was in my twenties. Back then you could see every kind of contraptions and you knew that they were crap. Nowadays they are the same crap, but older .
union steel well if hitting targets at 212 yard/200 M. With iron sights that weigh 75 pounds is crappy
Try that with tactical Tupperware striker fired
Walt Lars True...ones mans garbage is someone else's treasure.
union steel you could play 18 holes of golf with just one club
@union steel There is nothing wrong with this pistol.
one of the coolest single shot pistols ever designed
You know you are old when a pistol I used to own is on Forgotten Weapons 🤔
The Greybush Council has come to the consensus that we do not speak of such things.
This is one of the most overpowered guns I’ve ever seen
@Derrick Flyr its called not dislocating my wrist on a hunting trip
Always wanted one in 22 short!
I have one of these .444Marlin. Mine has a muzzle brake and it is a fire breather,lol. I bought it from an owner that hated it for $150 a few years ago. I take it out every now and then when I want an adrenaline rush.
I have one of these in 30-06 and it kicks brutally. It is nice to hunt with but scary to shoot.
My state changed our stupid deer hunting laws. I had to build a 300 blackout AR pistol because it was illegal to use that caliber in a rifle. Now I can use a rifle in 300 blackout.
Ian, please note that the Lone Eagle had a more shapely / svelte schnabel-style forend, as opposed to the blocky front of the SSP-91, so slight change to the stock when Magnum Research / IMI took over.
Ian, there is no one, no one, who can compare the level of firearms geekery, knowledge as you. Your channel is outstanding. Your dedication to the cause is incomparable. I humbly salute your intellectual fortitude and commitment. ♠️
This really needed a single eagle screech right at the beginning during the opening.
Maybe in .223. I suspect some of the larger calibers would prove quite unwieldy.
I had a Contender with a barrel chambered in .45-70. I have to shoot lefty due to an eye problem. First shot was pretty accurate, second nearly as good. Third shot on I might as well have been throwing rocks. It wasn't exactly like having somebody return your high five with a baseball bat, but close enough to it that follow up shots were really limited.
I feel like maybe having that chamber so far behind the grip might help with recoil management
I have a Encore in 7mm-08 and it doesn't hurt to shoot at all. It's too heavy to shoot offhanded with any kind of accuracy though, you pretty much have to set it on a rest. Or do like I did and put a pistol 'brace' on it :)
Had one in .308. These things are REALLY good shooters.
I had one of the Pre Magnum Research versions in 357 Herrett, and loved the gun but hated the caliber due to it being handload only. I would love another in either 223 or 308.
I have a Lone Eagle in 7mm-08. Accurate and fun to shoot.
Back when I was a gunsmith one of these was traded to my shop for another gun. It was a Lone Eagle in 7mm but I don't remember the exact caliber. I was tempted to buy it as a hunting gun but my state requires straight walled cartridges, so I let it go.
Impressive looking little beast :)
16" barrel and a folding stock would make this an interesting carbine, too.
Very interesting. You really only need one bullet if you can shoot. I like the idea of changing the caliber for large and small game or whatever. Does it have a kick?
Holy crap its a Caster Gun from Outlaw Star
I feel like that was more of a sawed of shotgun firing slugs as it’s range of SHELLS is so diverse
Can’t hunt with a rifle but a handgun is ok...wtf??
Mortiis558 i found that a bit strange as well
Mortiis558 i imagine it's to do with the weapons affective range
Im in ohio we can only use straight walled cartridges in rifles and handgun just has to have min 6in barrel and 357 or larger
Parts of Minnesota are shotgun only zones, but in the shotgun zones you can hunt with a handgun.
mrfish1991 is that because they're worried about rifle rounds travelling too far?
Jesus Christ 30-06 in a handgun? Is the deer worth double wrist replacement surgery? Also I cracked up when he couldn't think of the Desert Eagle. Haha If it's any consolation, I'd never have recovered. We'd need to cut so I could figure out the line. Then I'd probably fuch it up again.
I fired one of these in .308. The kick was not nearly as bad as one would expect. It was more like a straight rearward shove, rather than a sharp kick. The grip is thick and comfortable, as well.
Have one in 30-06 and it isn't that bad on the wrist. You can shoot a box without any pain, but if you wanted a little less kick they also sold the 30-06 version with a built in muzzle brake. Never fired one of those but would imagine the gas pushed back your way would be substantial, in mine the fireball out the end of the barrel was about 3 feet in diameter and you felt the concussion in your chest when you shot it.
Looks and works quite similar to welrod
Id actually really like a rifle with this loading system.maybe in 300 win mag or 6.5 creedmoore, on a aluminum chassis...
Im sure this would make an incredible 50 bmg platform.
Breech loading seems legit for a hand cannon...
Still waiting for part two, the disassembly. I want to see why that thing sticks together after repeated firing! In the right caliber and a longer barrel it would be great for deer here in Iowa where we can't hunt deer with rifles.
I haven't hunted here in the 6 years I've lived in Iowa, but I always thought we had that restriction due to it being nothing but corn and little towns. with very little in the way of anything to stop a missed shot. You can hunt with Muzzle loading rifles after all.
DFX2KX Stupid restriction, anyone that's not hunting deer are free to shoot their high powered rifles year round in the same corn fields and small towns. Plenty of responsible hunters here in Iowa and many are hunting down in timber covered valleys far away from what people think of when they think of the Iowa countryside.
I have one in 7mm BR. The breech rotates on an acme type thread. Each thread is approx. 1/8" thick.
What about a revolver in 45-70govt, i want one of those... Wait i have one of those
When you said, "massive rifle cartridge," I could only imagine one of these in .50 bmg
I'm pretty sure I have seen a bolt action .50 BMG pistol.
That concept screams wrist replacement surgery
... Can you really say the Cobray Terminator was "designed", though? I mean... it's a pipe.
Don't sell it short! It's a pipe with some screws in it!
That cocking lever looks like a snagging incident waiting to happen. (Assuming it doesn't get bent.)
My name is Al Martin. I live in Woonsocket Rhode Island and I made the first auto extractor/ejector for this gun to fire rimless cartridges. The project was brought to me by a man named George Hocshteder......not sure about the spelling..... I was paid with two rifles for the work. The big difference with this gun is recoil.
Hey Ian, I really enjoyed your video on the Ribeyrolles 1918 and found it very interesting. I've recently been looking at ww2 weapons (following the announcement of battlefield V) and come across the Polish resistance submachine gun, the Blyskawisca (lightning) sub machine gun and as I'm of polish decent (my great grandad was polish and fought for the royal air force as a bomber pilot and became a veteran) is find it most interesting to see you explain how the firearm that the Poles used to stave off the Nazi invaders whilst being occupied.
It'd be immeasurably appreciated
"designed the Cobray Terminator"
... oh.
Mine came with original 1991 marketing material, it says $299 (in 1991 dollars) for this gun.
Have a scoped one in .223.. pretty easy to manage. Fun but throws a bit of a flame..
This thing must have made an absolute career out of wrecking people's wrists.
It reminds me of my Hy Score .22 cal air pistol in it's design.
Ian do the fedorav degtorev(the water cooled lmg version)
Fun fact: the weapon is nearly a foot long
John Doe yup the designer was very short. 😊
One of the stupidest goddamn laws of one of the 50 states, no you cant use the most logical option to shoot that game that is best taken down with a rifle
The only other time I've ever seen anything about these was in an old video that started out with a guy in sunglasses blowing away fruit in slow motion with a Desert Eagle...
I finally found it: th-cam.com/video/MnjyU9aGKzc/w-d-xo.html
I love it when FW does one of those unusual guns you saw being mentioned here and there, but where you never got the finer details because like so many, they remain obscure at best.
if the action is behind the handle, does that technically make this a bullpup handgun?
I have a question. What is the worst weapon you've ever fired? Like in terms of recoil, ergonomics etc.
Copper-Brass i think Both him and Karl said it is the liberator pistol. The video is quite funny.
The good part about the liberator was that if you were lucky, you only had to fire it once. I would not look forward to .45 ACP with that "grip".
Copper-Brass
Liberator or cobray terminator.
I know I'm not ian but a slamfire shotgun made from 2 pipes and I used my buddy makeshift stock hurt like hell and nearly killed me in terms of ergonomics
That's the gun that took down ManBearPig
Since ammunition is no longer available on the commercial market, is this legally an antique firearm?
I know some short barrel rifle ballistics have been really well studied, but in something like 30-06 what would the stats look like here? I assume it's gonna lose a bunch of velocity but would it be enough to matter for hunters?
Have other firearm companies used the same concept of a single shot rifle/handgun to be used for hunting& competitions?
Bullpup pistol ?
Vaasref not really
I remember seeing this pistol in a Gun Digest article from the mid-80's The gun in the article was chambered for .30-30. This pistol is responsible for sparking my interest in rifle calibered handguns. However I chose to go with the T/C Contender platform. The T/C offered a proven design, and could be easily reconfigured to a different caliber by merely changing a barrel. I eventually ended up with barrels chambered for .45-70, .35 Remington, .223, 10mm Auto and .45 Colt/.410. All of my barrels are 14" with the exception of the 10mm Auto which is 10". I still possess and use it to this day.
Its basically useless to me, but I want one anyway
A single shot in 300blk suppressed would be sweet. Or maybe 7.62x39 with the new walker defense brake.
The rotary breech is pretty clever, it allows for a lot more barrel length on a "pistol" than you might have with a bolt action.
Stack Light Rifle.
www.worldofspectrum.org/hardware/feat8.html
with the barrel going all the way back like that...that’s actually a cannon.
A mini rifel. It must have a kick.
Oh holy shit, THIS is the gun my dad once had! His had a scope, a muzzle brake, and was in .357 maximum. It was absolutely insane.
Home defense gun for when the criminals are nice enough to line up in a row.
Cool! Thanks Ian :)
This gun gave me a bit of a flutter. I want one.
Thanks for explaining what the Competitor pistols are. There is one in .223 on Guntrader UK with iron sights and a wood laminate grip, just long enough to be legal here.
Why would hunting with a rifle be illegal? That's a weird law.
Flatter higher population density areas like the east coast and some of the mid west do that mostly since a handgun round like .44 mag or a shotgun slug are plenty for deer but won't go miles like a rifle round. Some states also will allow rifles in straight wall cartridges like .44 mag, .45 colt, and .45-70 for the same reason. Basically just to lower the chance of a missed shot hitting something it shouldn't
Ohio does that I've heard
@@aurorawhorealis Still seems very poorly thought out. Why not just restrict calibers or set a strict limit on muzzle velocity and muzzle energy? I mean restricting stocks will just make hunters less accurate and thus be conducive to poor hits and needless suffering for the animals in question.
@@xilon56 There aren't hunting seasons you are required to use a handgun over a rifle, I'm pretty sure states that let you hunt with a handgun you usually have to use it during general rifle season, or to complicate things further some states that don't allow typical rifles for fear of a miss going too far in a populated area you may use a shotgun firing slugs or short range rifle cartridge like .44 magnum or the new .350 Legend, or, a handgun can be an option in certain states too, while not in others. Handgun hunting is generally a voluntary challenge requiring you to get much closer to the animal, not take risky long range shots with it, similar to hunting with archery equipment. Each state does actually have their own requirements for caliber and energy for a given game species as well, there's a lot of overlap in what cartridges are okay for a given species state to state but equipment requirements can vary a lot.
Sorry this got long, this is a complicated topic, each state has wildly different hunting laws and that significantly impacts what equipment you can use. If you're still curious you should look up your own hunting regulations and take a gander and the equipment rules, it may make a little more sense.
I had one in 7mm-08...it broke 2 firing pins...it was a bear to hang onto...I sold it..
I bought one in 7mm-08 too. Once I got it to the range I found out the firing pin was broken . I found one company that sold the firing pins last year but now I can't even find their website any more.
When mine shoots it is comfortable to fire but has a fireball the size of a basketball
Cannon breach.
Now I want to see a railroad handgun.
I own the 444 marlen version. It's a wonderful moose gun
I wonder how wel lthis thing shoots. .308 is nothing to scoff at and rifles mostly handle it well because of the added weight and the buttstock. It is single shot and not a repeater so you don´t have to worry too much about you losing the target but it still looks like it should have a pretty hard kick to it if you just hold it in your hand unassisted.
It is miserable in .308 without a muzzle brake.
It has no issues in 308 with the muzzle brake though. If you really don't want to hurt, there is Hornady light loads that work great in this.
John O ́neil The .308 was a walk in the park compared to the other calibers. Also, taught me theres actually big difference between .308 and 30-06. My grandpa owned 2 of these. 1 in .308 and 1 in 30-06. The .308 was very gentle compared to the 30-06. The extra powder behind an '06 is VERY noticeable in these things. The 06' would hop 3 feet off the table, throw a godly sized fireball and rattle everything in a 500 ft radius, all compared the the gentle pop of the .308.
So is there a way to uncock without dry firing?
He also owned a bolt action pistol in .401 magnum it had a 12" barrel and a huge recoil