Viper MkI: A Simplified Steampunk Sten
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 เม.ย. 2019
- / forgottenweapons
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The Viper Mk I was an experimental submachine gun developed in the UK for use by military policemen in post-WW2 occupation West Germany. It was a simplified Sten gun (full-auto only, without the semiauto option normally included in the Sten trigger mechanism) put into a wooden housing. It was intended to be carried slung over one shouldered fired under the arm with just one hand. To this end, it had neither sights nor trigger guard. The whole concept seems pretty questionable, and while multiple different Viper submachine guns were designed to fill this role, none were ever adopted.
Many thanks to the Royal Armouries for allowing me to film and disassemble this very rare rifle! The NFC collection there - perhaps the best military small arms collection in Western Europe - is available by appointment to researchers:
royalarmouries.org/research/n...
You can browse the various Armouries collections online here:
royalarmouries.org/collection/
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When hearing SIMPLIFIED STEN I think of someone beating the primer of the cartridges with a hammer
I think the next step on simplification would have been that, more or less. Maybe with a cranky.
I though of a pipe gun
@Luke Z idk bro, us Texans like it too
I mm I mm so the Cobray Terminator?
Throwing handfuls of brass
Sten owner: "My Sten is the most rudimentary machine pistol on the planet"
Viper owner: "Hold my beer.... on second thoughts I can keep holding my own beer".
This disserves more than 4 likes here is the 5th if I could give more I would, well done sir
@@takeawaykitty. :) thanks
You mean hold my tea?
Lmao
Owen gun owner: :^)
Advertising for 200 new positions at armaments manufacturer -
"Gunsmith?"
"No, cabinet maker".
"We need something even cheaper than the Sten to issue to military police."
"Great. Here's my idea. First off, instead of stamped or milled metal, let's have everything, even the screw threads for the barrel nut, hand-crafted out of wood."
*dual wielding these things and wearing sunglasses while they burst into flames and heavy metal plays*
G R O O V Y
@@StrawberryShmello looking like the worlds smallest dual-mounted AA emplacement.
Why not bakelite, I wonder
@@OCTO358I assume thats what would've been done if it had somehow been adopted. Its hard to justify the cost of a mold for a prototype
"We need to make a one handed SMG."
"Why sir?"
"Well what happens if we get attacked during Tea Time?"
to free up your other hand for another gun
@@PHOBOS300 In your other hand you unscrew your pommel from your sword so you can finish the enemy rightly.
"Bloody hell! My monocle keeps falling off when I shoot the Sten gun! Tell Q to make me one I can shoot one-handed, so I can keep my monocle in!"
Isn't it obligatory British politeness to give them baddies a two-finger salute while shooting them?
@@cleanerben9636 I approve of this statement. The gun is just there to buy time while you unscrew the pommel.
A simplified Sten? Pretty sure the next step down is a brick that you just chuck at people...
You mean a cramped Mosin?
you fail to grasp the brilliance of this design. you cannot miss your target because you are not aiming at a target in the first place. spray and -pray- win.
So L.M.P. 1889 then -> th-cam.com/video/olLjXYKfUYA/w-d-xo.html
god damnit I wanted to make that joke dude.....:(
My first thought was: Simplified Sten isn’t that like a more complex Rube Goldberg Machine?
"That's a Sten? Oh, next thing you'll tell me is that it has to be disassembled like a nerf gun lmao"
*Viper opens like a nerf gun*
._.
They needed to be able to shoot it one handed, as the other hand would be holding an English-German phrase book!😂🤣😂
Wanker
Nein!
I wonder how do you say “my hovercraft is full of eels” in german 🤔🤔
@@josecbritos mein luftkissenboot ist voller Aale .
You're welcome!😘
@@josecbritos sorry I screwed up the translation first time!
Why one handed? DUAL WIELDING OF COURSE!
Macedonian shooting as they used to say
What they wanted was for the officer to be able to fetch a new magazine while shooting, so the reload time was minimised. It makes no sense though.
I think another reason could've been because the occupation forces would mostly serve as police and the idea is that with a particularly stubborn criminal you could use your free hand to do the arresting but still have your weapon drawn in case you needed it. Still impractical. @@Lobosatirico
Dual wielding is great and all, but can it shoot .32 ACP?
Can't believe he even had to ask. :-D
"What if, now stick with me, we made a gun that makes no sense."
"I'm listening."
im in
The damn thing needs a “This side up” sticker
"One-handed weapons suit me just fine, they leave one hand free for making rude gestures." - Inigo, unofficial follower from Skyrim
That's a mood.
The Viper Sten does seem like the sort of weapon one would use while making rude gestures at the enemy.
Actually this could make sense. Policeman need to be able to communicate with the populous and he doesn't speak German. If he doesn't holds the weapon in both hands at least he can gesture to stop or go left. It's a stretch though.
Why use one Viper when you can use two? It leaves the other hand free for another one-handed weapon.
Best Skyrim follower
Finally I can scratch my taint while laying down automatic fire as God intended
I've been having a rough day but this comment just made my night.
Thank you random stranger on the internet.
Also good taste in albums.
@@kieronwithano
yee haw
The best comment I have ever seen. I hope Gun Jesus sees this.
god bless
They developed this so that British officers can hose down ruffians with one hand while holding their cup of tea in the other, as God intended.
Ah yes. Doing God's work.
This is a proof of concept if all you have is a knife, a block of wood, a tube, and one single spring
For king and country!
A pipe, actually.
@@spyczech What on EARTH is a muffet?
“Let me just casually grab this Sten Mk. II we have lying around for comparison.”
Say what now?
Of course I always have a Sten Mk II with me. I'm not some kind of animal.
It's the Royal Armoruy.
@@peterlewerin4213🙂
Now I'm feeling dumb for not having a Sten Mk. II for technical purposes.
>he doesnt carry a sten in the keester bag 24/7
“At first I was joking about them threading the wood”
Say sike
“And lo and behold”
Please-
A super-simplified mechanism, wrapped up in the most complicated machined wood stock ever made.
This is how I feel about soft shell tacos that are too intricately folded.
It’s honestly the sort of thing a carpenter would make to show off...
svtirefire wood is very easy to machine compared to any metal, it does'nt stick to the cutting tools, require no lubricants or cooling to cut and does not dull the tools. So regadless of it being a bad idea to make gun parts from wood; it's very fast and easy.
@antonw194200 I'll agree that wood machines quicker than metal, but wood most certainly does dull tools!
Technically speaking yes, but practically no. Steel and aluminum will dull endmills and such in a matter of hours, wood will probably take years, i haven't really managed to dull a bit on wood so i would not know… but I'm guessing it would take a while…. My point is that from a manufacturing standpoint the tool life on a mill that only sees wood is almost endless compared to a mill that sees a lot of brass, aluminum and steel.
Obviously, they were doing rude gestures with the other.
As somebody who comes from the UK this is 100% correct 😂
@@Victor-056 mard, not mood for Scots.
Algebrag winning comment !!!
No lollygaggin'
Hahahahahahahahah
"They just threaded the wood."
i want that on a t-shirt
Slice of Bread, new favorite quote
I've never just sat and laughed at a gun before. makes you wonder if "experimental" meant "our manufacturing capacity has been decimated due to all of the bombs from WW2 and Ralph says he can make a bloody lot of these in his garage".
Probably not far from the truth.
It would be a "Herbert" or a "Cyril".
mate, you've just made my day
I was just thinking I could make this...
This is a great comment
As is often the case, more research gets done after filming wraps. We have the surviving documentation on the Viper. This type was invented in 1943 (by Derek Hutton-Williams), so definitely not for police or border guards. The only mention of its intended purpose is actually 'over the beach' Commando-style operations (including the casing being intended to float!), the other hand being free for grenade use, with an additional covert role (in which case you could use the free hand as a support hand). This first pattern gun (they had no official designation) went nowhere. The totally different 'No.3' version appeared in 1945 feeding from Mp40 mags. It's possible that this was proposed as a border guard weapon.
Thank you. That makes sense.
This should probably get upvoted by Ian, so people can stop guessing what it was actually intended for :) I may have gotten the purpose entirely wrong in my own reasonings, but at least I was right about the year of development probably giving the best hints in that regard. Cheers!
@@decnet100 Agreed. It should be pinned
Any sources I can look into? I wanna look into this gun some more :D
So this is like a special forces kinda gun? Like used in certain missions and shit?
A poorly trained, overzealous cop firing a full-auto weapon with no sights from the hip in an urban environment... what could go wrong?
Probally everything
civilians ? nah more like acceptable casualties
Don't forget the possibility of sparking an international incident if some major accident occurred in Berlin.
You guys do understand that MP is an actual job, right? It's a soldier, nothing more, nothing less.
@@JennyGormanRitter, if you think that gun was appropriate for MPs, I think it's you who doesn't understand the actual job. Hint: It's not mowing down crowds of unarmed people.
"It's not entirely clear what they were doing with the other hand."
Firing another viper?
It’s literally just a tube with side holes and a spring encased in wood
I wonder if this was created due to a rule or law that the police couldn't carry rifles or sub-machine guns, but could carry pistols (with pistols defined as guns used one handed)
Id argue that the one handed design was because its for policemen, who would need to use the other hand for different tasks (checking documents, handcuffing people etc)
Military police in this period were carrying Enfields and Stens already, they probably wanted the same degree of firepower but better handiness (basically what the Skorpion would offer)
@@zoiders That makes sense. The other hand is reaching for documents while still being able to cover the person in question. Then again, you could have had a second guy covering the one asking for documents.
@@zoiders I thought of that too and made a fool of myself by suggesting that idea after you in this comment section.
A tip of my hat to you sir but keep those hands visible!
My first reaction was - pistol arm brace v1.0. Or, I guess, Mark 1 in British parlance.
if that is ur definition of a pistol, i guess my dick would count as one
Has the added benefit it can double as a cricket bat.
Now I can't unsee it. Thanks for that.
How about for use at checkpoints?
You then already have a gun at the ready and you can check papers at the same time, decreasing reaction time between "holy shit this guy has a gun" and "get the coroner" as they wouldn't have to step back, grab a firearm, rack, aim and fire.... that's pretty much the only situation I can think of...
Wrestling one guy who threw a molotov and a volksturm tween comes around the corner with a panzerschreck.
That’s actually pretty on point
"yes, they simplified a Sten"
*this is beyond science*
This gun would have been perfect for all bad-guys in films that never used the sights on their firearms.
And here I thought it was only communist countries that didn't care about aiming.
You wouldn’t want our hero getting hit now would you?
so it is perfect for the stormtroopers?
So about every bad guy?
Weapon of choice for the imperial storm trooper school of marksmanship?
This looks like an alpha version 0.0000000001 FN P90.
More like P90 2.0
With modern polymer body and a little more work on the metals it would look pretty nice.
or mp7?
"But we have to talk about the magazine... Later"
89 models earlier
😂first gen
"Simplified Sten"? That cracks me up. Isn't that like trying to simplify a rock?
"Yes Tom, I do realize we already have a cheap sub machine gun"
"Make it cheaper, and it better be finished when we meet for Biscuits and tea"
I just love the incredulous tone in Ian's voice at "they actually managed to simplify the Sten gun(?)"
who would not be? during the war, you could build a Sten gun in your garage with only a few tools and a parts kit
@@styx7027 So tru. That's how the Germans did it with their own versions (MP 3008). Apparently it was so damn simple to build that contracts to build the guns were given to small workshops (not dedicated factories)
"Wouldn't it be hilarious if they threaded the wood?"
Chuckles, unscrews nose cap.
"They actually threaded the wood!"
Falls off chair laughing.
6:00 that's not a simplified Sten...
that's a tube with a sear
The fuck else would a "simplified Sten" be?!
Hey, according to the ATF that's literally an assault rifle!
"They actually threaded the wood."
I now have the perfect name for my new rock band.
Simplified Sten? is that where you just throw a hand full of 9mm at some one.
Taken from the manual:
"While firing at those woebegone ne'er-do-wells, your free hand should be holding your tea, using your cane, or tipping your hat."
Proper handling for proper gentlemen.
The weapon of choice for a redditor
People talk about Bubba and his kitchen table but Nigel in his shed is almost more terrifying
" Are they still walking around doing that silly Hitler mustach with their fingers ?"
-" Yep, doesn't look like that one is getting old anytime soon"
" Goddammed! Allright, ... show me damn Sten schematics again"
The key thing here is the sling system. Clearly a concealable SMG worn under a coat. The other hand opening the coat. I suspect the RMP reference is a cover story.
a smg for flashers, finally a weapons system that caters to people like me
I'd Imagine that the side Magazine would make this kinda incomfortable
RMP duties also include close protection, so it makes sense for one handed operation while the other is keeping a grip on your principle.
This feels like a gun designed by somebody who knows the minutiae and details of how to make a functional gun, but none of the broad strokes of ergonomics or important features. Like some kind of inverse SA-80.
Thank God I had my m4
Exactly! How the hell do you hang that from your right shoulder when the mag sticks out of the left side of the gun?
@@jayzenitram9621 Remember both the Sten and this were being produced by a country that had almost literally no money left. Quick, dirty, works (sort of).
@@tSp289 You mean dirty deeds done dirt cheap
@@jayzenitram9621 I imagine they didn't just walk around with it loaded especially considering the fact that it has a sketchy safety
0:48 Akimbo. They were visionary men.
Such a cool gun. Basically a tube, bolt, barrell, trigger and mag! Awesome
US MP: "You're drunk Private." *pulls out nightstick*
UK MP "I'M DRUNK SIR!" *Fires wildly into the sky.*
@Caffeinated Wizard I know, i just wear the insults proudly.
@Caffeinated Wizard 😊😊😊😊 I had an older friend that flew the Airlift.
@Marginally Sapient Cactus lol the average private is closer to the stereotype than to George Marshall
I'm guessing you use the other hand for a riot shield/flashlight or checking documents
Exactly. I would guess they envisaged groups of demobbed German troops, SS, and militia, wandering the streets without jobs and desperate. The MP goes, "You lot, halt! Show me your ... " and the group produce clubs and knives and rush him. Post war Germany was literally Mad Max territory in some places. I'm not saying this happened a lot, but what the Brits thought might happen.
@@v.w.singer9638 Especially given the recent history of demobilization after WW1, The western allies definitely didn't want to let history repeat itself. The Western Allies were worried about a communist uprising and definitely didn't want to have to rely on those demobilized SS troops to crush it, like they had done with the freikorps vs the Spartacist revolt. Having a large military police presence was part of this post war anti-communist strategy along with the Marshall plan, and the CIA's interventions in the Italian election of 1948 and elsewhere.
@@zoiders Can't say I'll lose much sleep over those. We're talking about the closing of the final act of the most barbarous war in both content and scope - am I supposed to be aghast because the Soviets did what Soviets had spent the entire war doing? If the US didn't want those people killed, they should've have given their details to the Russians - now, if the US WANTED those people out of the way it would be very convenient for us to quietly give their dossiers to the ruskies and then hold it against them later if/when the relationship turned sour - which almost everyone in the know knew was a 'when' instead of an 'if'.
What the US should've done was hand over those Japanese murderers to the Communists - the same ones who had spent the war dropping pathogens on entire Chinese cities - instead of protecting and downplaying the Japanese atrocities. My point is that there are no 'good guys' in realpolitik.
Oh that's it. And I thought it was the perfect gun for shooting / wanking akimbo style. Man has to deal with Testosteron, this gun - the ideal solution
Ian: “This was never adopted”
Me: like the elderly cat at the shelter... yanno the one with one eye, 3 legs, no tail, and a bum pancreas?
Imaginary Ian: Yes, Jared. Exactly like that one.
2:05 "...hose down fleeing criminals in occupational West Germany..."
First thing that came to mind was "...also known as refugees..."
Disgusting.
@@movessmitt6427 But funny
Bruh i literally cried when I heard him say that 🤣
An automatic weapon for firing from a motorcycle so you can keep one hand on the handlebars...? Or perhaps from behind a riot shield, though this gun seems to precede that concept...
shooting a riot whit a machinegun? just spraying bullets lol
Be good for winter troops skiing? No trigger guard so no need to take off your gloves.
Perhaps for while the mp was checking papers
you were right in the first sentence
@@MisterSingh. Either that or from some other moving vehicle like a train?
Simplified STEN? Pardon, did I hear that right?
Its so some military police rozzer can mow down the bad guys while also directing traffic. Multitasking at its worst. The designer behind this then went on to make the SA80.
Wow. The epitome of steel really being short of supply.
Is it possible, that this was designed for Motorcycle Police? A lot of Police Motorcycles had the throttle on the left side of the handle bar, so they could shoot handguns properly. A machine gun would provide even more Firepower.
(I´m imagening very awesome Police chasings with those sten guns.)
@Jim Man still much better than pinking away with a pistol on a moving bike.
I think this is well possible.
Thats exactly what I was thinking too. I cant see another explanation for this. Short bursts are best way for moving targets.
Motorcycle police were my first thought as well. No trigger guard so you can wear road gloves, single arm sling.... screams bike gun.
Precisely what it is. There are pictures and videos showing British soldiers and police training as well as patrolling with these guns on motorbikes. The idea was to shoot your twenty round burst at the first instant of trouble to get the upper hand ... shoot the tyres of a car, get a fleeing prisoner to dive into a ravine, etc. Then pull out your pistol ... on or off your motorcycle ... for more accurate fire and subduing of fleeing personnel.
I can just imagine someone staring at a Sten, and thinking, "Too complex, this needs to be simplified".
It's amazing the thought and care that went into making such an utterly useless firearm.
When you need to make more STENs but ran out of bedposts but you still have plenty of 2×4s
"A simplified STEN gun." Never thought I would hear those words used together.
I find it rather startling you can even simplify the Sten.
Easy, you throw 9mm cartridges at the enemy.......
2 reasons why you need a one handed smg.
A: another SMG or weapon
B: to drink tea
"We modified a Sten to make it weird."
"Why not just use the Sten?"
"Do you see this silly looking wooden thing? C'mon?"
I would use this 100% for room clearances, imagine opening a door and being able to comfortably suppressor any attackers. Or maybe it was used by MP's in prisons?
Just when you thought British small arms design couldn't get more niche, this thing pops out of the archives and decks you in the jaw.
Occupational Germany? MP? I guess you hold documents of people you check in your left hand and you can still use the gun with your right hand. This explains the lack of sights too.
Right, would've been my guess as well.
Its the best guess i think, but you could use a pistol. No Wonder it never got off the ground.
thanks for stating the obvious.
Zu papieren bitte!
Makes sense at first but I guess you really need two hands to properly check papers. Imagine someone handing you their passport, which would be more than a small card (it's a folded booklet-type), and you have to clumsily try to open it with one (weak) hand :)
Bruce Baxter
Die Papiere bitte...
Great video,pardon my French but this is what my grandfather would've called "A bas**rd thing of hell with no name" hello from wales... R.I.P. POPS...⚡🐉⚡
"Now that we can fire these one handed, what do we do with our free hand?"
"Hold another Viper, obviously."
If it's for UK Military police then the other hand would be used for raising the barrier
Barrier? Could you please elaborate?
Gary Neilson or whilst checking documents
For holding a cup of tea.
@@dongblak7048 yes... holding a cup of tea, or, if they were English bobbies, blowing a whistle.
@Nasim Aghdam what?!
"Simplified" and "Sten" in the same sentence... My first thought was "Pry bar".
THREADED THE WOOD. That is what im calling it from now on.
When Ian holds a gun from after WW2 then references it’s use in the 30’s we don’t correct him, we just agree WW2 ended in 1935. Gun Jesus has spoken!
Man walks into the board room: Gentlemen. We need need to make a simpler Sten. All for a man to use in one hand.
*Those in the room look at each other*
Yeah. That is how I view this idea came to light.
That's likely pretty accurate - though perhaps instead of the board room it was a game of telephone as the order was passed down the pipe - each response in the chain being "....really? Oookay..."
As if it wasn't simple enough...
Holy crap its SQUIRE!!! You are a comedy gem sir, and also you got me totally addicted to war thunder for years
How's the Swordfish?
I just love how it looks and works
Damn, that's some fabulous wood working, including the barrel nut fitting
That's some neat wood-working.
A "production" version would surely have an injection-moulded "plastic" stock kit that could easily include a triggerguard.
Then again, there was the Patchett / Sterling looming over the horizon...
This thing is the living embodiment of Shoot first, Ask questions never XD
Thanks Ian. Very cool!
Wow... I thought I knew a bit about many wartime weapons, but this one is completely unknown to me ! Carry on the good work Ian (Proud to be a Patreon subscriber).
Yes Ian, it is quite hard to believe that there is a simplified STEN gun. I’m actually impressed.
“We need something we can shoot one handed!”
“I’ve got it!!! A Sten with some wood on it!”
“Errr, guys, a pistol, maybe?”
“STEN WITH WOOD!”
omg that took my by surprise!
had no idea the Royal armouries had these weapons
ima visit tomorrow
i have seen this in person at the royal armouries, pretty crazy guns there
...Every once in a while you manage to find something that just astounds.
What were they thinking? And why have I never known about this monstrosity?
Description says “WW@“. Love the channel. Thanks Ian!
wwat are you talking about? it clearly says WW2.
LovableCoolGuy Because it’s been corrected since I posted my comment.
Stands for “Wh-WHAT?”
The work that went into the tree carcass stock on that thing is insane... Its like it was built by a woodworker who wanted to show off more than someone trying to make a gun.
And that is awesome to see the scribe marks. It's like they put all that work into it and didn't bother with the last few finishing steps to save time because it was on the inside???
I want one for Christmas.what a wonderful little gun to travel with.
A simplified _STEN?_
What's next, a simplified PPS 43?
Laughs in full auto zip gun
@@ivankrylov6270 this is funnier than it has any right to be, nice one.
A simplified liberator would be interesting
@@thesturm8686 You mean a .45 tube with a little hammer and stickle that you can strike the primer with?
Simplified sten gun, great band name
But their music should be as simple and primitive as it is humanly possible, I guess.
Bartek - Beating on rocks with sticks and Neanderthalic screeching. My kind of music.
"Glorified version of a pellet gun "
That will start playing completely y accident if you drop the drummer
I see the appeal. the stock holds your smokes and lighter, the gun leaves one hand free so you can smoke while glaring at people. brilliant.
I would’ve liked to have been a fly on the wall during the engineers presentation of that unique “whatsit”. What a bizarre firearm. The most interesting part is the craftsmanship & ingenuity that went into the design & fabrication of the wood stock.
THE BEST DESCRIPTION: its cheap done well
Agreed, bull pup type weapon devoid of Sharpe bits to catch whilst in hot pursuit of a black marketeer.... I like it.
This looks like it came straight out of Mad Max or Mortal Engine
And Fallout 4 :)
"What were they doing with the other hand..."
Dual-wielding sten guns, of course.
I never thought that sten gun can be more simplifiable:)
Guard dogs, they would have an attack dog in their other hand.
Charlie 🇬🇧
@@CommiTsunami these things where an option for the border crossing areas...bizarre the things us old military guys know!
Although this is before my time 👍
Probably end up shooting the dog with that thing.
Although the later 1950s police shows were not procedurals by any modern meaning, the ubiquity of 'Bobbies' handcuffing themselves to at least compliant or semi-compliant arrestees, (effectively disabling one arm) must mean there was a kernel of truth, in the 'come along' posture being one of the common prisoner handling methods of the time. It is even still occasionally used today in low risk Prison to Court transport.
Therefore maybe the one-handed requirement was for the scenario of being ambushed when bringing a local in; given the then expected anti-occupation hostility and the greater threat in a nation awash with weapons?
Wstr Back when crims said ‘it’s a fair cop, you got me bang to rights’, or some such guff.
@@richardmontgomery8863 Stone me I've been perishing nicked have I not. * constable cuffs ear * . I've learnt me lesson guv'nor and no mistake.
Simplified Sten: *Exists*
Fallout Pipe guns: Am i a joke to you?
Judge Dredd I know right?
The comment authenticator OWO Oh heaven forbid you get offended by memes.
Santa Claus it’s just over used you know
Memes: *exist*
Offended People: Are we a joke to you?
Me: Yes 😃
*looks at thumbnail* "What in concealable damnation?"
"you, engeneer, take the Sten gun and simplify it!"
Engenner: "Ok, HOW!"
Normally I'm not a spelling or grammar Nazi but you did it twice so here ya go
Engineer
how did you misspell engineer twice
I see what you did there mate 😂
Most people are amazed at,"It's simpler than a sten gun!!!", meanwhile I'm just admiring the beauty and complexity of the woodworking in the stock. Somehow, the people who made this not only managed to make the sten simpler, but also more externally attractive.
A modernized version of this with a laser designator can be useful for a point man carrying a shield, in place of a hanfgun
A very fine piece of wood working, life was so different before molded plastics became a thing.