The Rise and Fall of Captain America…A Modern Comic Casualty
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Marvel’s controversial Secret Empire event is over. Was it worth it?
Via polygon.com
Although Secret Empire touted itself as a timely story about unchecked power and limited responsibility, the majority of the event instead featured a ‘round the world macguffin hunt for the shattered pieces of the Cosmic Cube. The understanding was that whomever assembled the reality-shaping plot device would decide the fate of the Marvel Universe.
At the beginning of Secret Empire’s final issue, the Hydra-aligned Steve Rogers had assembled most of a cosmic cube. Rogers’ was able to rewrite reality into one where Hydra truly won World War II and had influenced the growth of American culture for close to a century. Sam Wilson, who had survived the change in reality unaltered, held the final piece of the Cosmic Cube, and, in a surprise move, he handed it over to Rogers to complete his power.
Since the original Captain America-as-Hydra reveal in May 2016, the message from Marvel Comics has been “Wait and see.” Criticism towards the series’ themes and events was met with pleas to stick it out to the end, because it would all be explained and it would all be worth it.
Many of the criticisms levelled towards the story over the past eighteen months have been about the symbolism of corrupting a Jewish-created American icon with a Nazi-aligned terrorist organisation. It doesn’t matter if you eventually explain that Thor’s hammer was affected by the Cosmic Cube when that image is all too easily exists separated from the rest of the comic book explanation. It’s irresponsible to play sleight of hand with potentially volatile and offensive imagery just because “it all works out in the end.”
Over the course of the past eighteen months or so, Spencer has gone out of his way to clarify that some factions of Hydra are Nazis, but not all of them are, and Hydra-Cap’s faction is not. However, in the final moments of Secret Empire Omega #1, Steve Rogers says to his doppelganger “I know what you are, and I’ve been fighting you my whole life,” a reference to Captain America’s history and origin - which is indelibly tied to World War II and the fight against The Third Reich.
So the Hydra-aligned Captain America was the real Steve Rogers until the end of the comic when he wasn’t, and Hydra weren’t Nazis until the end of the comic where they were. So much of Secret Empire has revolved around splitting hairs over semantics and arguing subtle differences to explain how the story isn’t offensive.
Marvel Reveals First Look at Captain America Anniversary Tribute #1
Via cbr.com
Captain America marks his milestone 80th anniversary in March and to celebrate, Marvel is releasing a giant-sized tribute special, Captain America Tribute #1. Now, we have a first look at the upcoming special issue, including covers from Steve McNiven and Mark Brooks, as well as art from Alex Ross, Carmen Carnero and Jason Keith, John Cassaday and Laura Martin, and Federico Vicentini.
Captain America Tribute #1 will feature redrawn art from several Marvel artists offering a new, modern take on the very first appearance of Captain Americafrom Captain America Comics #1 as well as the character's reintroduction to the Marvel Universe in Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's Avengers #4. Included in the tribute are Captain America's origin story, first battle against Red Skull, and Silver Age debut.
#marvelcomics #captainamerica #comicbooks
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This subject is a little hard for me, because Cap is special to me. Heck I named my dog Cappy. Before all the Hydra-Cap garbage I never missed an issue since 1983.
From Hydra-Cap to the monstrosity of T. Coats run, it's apparent Disney/Marvel/Creators have no love for the embodiment of the American people.
If I have read about apologizing for his whiteness, being male, being American. Etc...it's ridiculous and an abomination to the original creators The King and Simon.
It's a travesty what they've done.
Then you obviously never understood what Captain America really stood for. He's a symbol of the ideal, not the reality. When Cap writers replaced the Hitlers he was punching for the David Dukes, a lot of Y'all really took that personally
@@FritziSchnitzel "The American People" isn't just white men though. Marvel just realigned their strategy to reflect that.
@@FritziSchnitzel The Nazi Cap is straight neo-communist propaganda. This plot is more than enough reason to drop Marvel forever. Cap was always a fighter for freedom. This was also true during the 50s before the leftists rewrote this era.
It would be funny if Marvel creates an alternate timeline where Rogers is the 50s, Commie Smasher Cap. If they want to be edgy, they should write a story where Rogers becomes a 1950s era, right wing SJW. The SJWs are the real modern authoritarians. (They would need to explain why Bucky didn't age.)
Though it would be more awesome if they portray Commie Smasher Cap as a real hero who works with Joseph McCarthy (underrated and right) to save America.
@@MrJoho17 Joseph McCarthy was right. There are way to many commies for Cap to fight now.
Disney is "abhorrent". Clearly, it's just an arm of the Democrat party now. We need to stop buying their trash. Their live action has been garbage for years anyway.
It’s actually sad to see captain America reduced to rumble because he’s a great character and deserves justice.
We need 1950s, Commie Smasher Cap back. He has much work to do.
The sad truth here is that this video was a better tribute to Cap than anything Marvel plan to do
I swore off Captain America when they announced Coates would be writing it. They couldn't have picked a bigger America-hating, race-hustling bigot if they tried, and I'm sure they did.
I agree with you . Coates wrote the charcter out of hate for the character not out of respect for him
The problem with Captain America (and Superman): what IS Truth, Justice, and The American Way anymore? The characters were meant to be icons for "better" things and a "brighter" future, but nowadays the first issue is who/what/why/how is something "better" or "brighter"? The ideals of old are considered anything from archaic to (as some would say) "colonial". It is now far easier and safer to tear down and deconstruct ideals yesteryear because todays ideals are pretty vague and nebulous. "Equality" for example is a great buzzword but a LOT harder to actually embody without looking pandering, hypocritical, or preachy. It's not enough to just BE a hero, one must have intersectionality (or other qualifiers) as if that it ITSELF is a virtue and lacking them makes a hero of old a sort-of villain today. It is exactly as Harvey Dent said: Either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain.
The movies have it a lot easier because they just have to focus on his action/adventure against Nazis and aliens, without having to deal with the messy long term ethics or ideology the way the comics and the comic creators have to.
theres something weirdly symbolic about the fact captain america- the heart and soul of the marvel universe- its very moral compass- cant be written by anyone working there.
Lol. Good point.
"Hail Hydra"was awful, but it wasn't what ruined Cap. He was ruined by a continual series of writers who either don't get Cap or consider him to be a symbol of their enemy. But one good, sustained run by someone like Dan Jurgens would fix him easily
I agree!
I don't know Jurgens' run wasn't perfect. Connie Ferrari is seriously the worst love interest for a hero I have ever seen. She wasn't a defense attorney she was a deluded fanatic. In fact most of Jurgens Marvel stuff was good but flawed.
Jurgens is one of the very few writers and artists who you can tell actually likes Superman.
@@chihiromononoke9381 Oh Hell yes! Almost all of Jurgens stuff at DC is gold but his Marvel work is flawed but still good.
@@seanmccallum6558 You get the impression most writers hate Superman, though Busiek did a pretty good job with him in the later 2000s.
I always loved that Cap held true to his own Moral code like in the Roger Stern run instead of "Adjusting to the times" despite being a "Man out of time" he wholly believes Honor and Fairness always has place in the world that is so great. The Strucker story was pretty good too IMO
Same here. He represented what made America and the human spirit great. The very definition of a Super Soldier.
How Marvel feels about Cap can be summed up by the fact that they took the most patriotic character in their books and had a guy who hates America write it. Gee cant imagine how that would go wrong.
captain america has been shit since ed brubaker left & when did he leave 2010/2011 ? ,it's been awhile
Even Brubaker's issues during and after Civil War aren't good. Bucky Cap is lame and doesn't work, and these issues are boring. Brubaker became a hack.
I have to disagree. I enjoyed Rick Remenders run. Also Hickman did a great job with him in his avengers run. Although feel free to tell me why you don't agree.
@Kepler-452b I'm pretty new to comics so I didn't know it was disliked. I loved the weirdness of it.
RIP for the boys that will NEVER EVER see a good comic again because they "don't fit the times":
Captain America
Iron Man
Thor (edit: forgot about Cates, confused Aaron's permanent hate for Marvel editorial)
Punisher
Hawkeye
Black Panther
my favorite boy Hank Pym
@@Tone_Of_Dials There's much more comics than those characters. Hulk and Daredevil are missing from my list, as are X-Men
@@doctorogre1777 kinda disagree with xmen hickman xmen run xmen for me
@@apolloman1608 Yeah, but it's POSSIBLE to get a good X-Men. They aren't inherently "problematic".
@@doctorogre1777 bro did u read c of swords it was dogshit in my opinion like cant the west write a decent tournament arc
@@apolloman1608 Hickman is my favorite writer. X-men "under Hickman" is crap. But I wouldn't bet against Marvel NEVER AGAIN at any point in the future making a good X-Men book EVER. I would take that bet for Captain America.
Another great conversation Wes, this makes me want to seek out a lot of the old stuff that informed the Brubaker run (I’ll be grabbing that Englehart omnibus of Cap that Joe mentioned is coming out in July)
Great video, guys. Your point about great previous Cap runs is so true. Along with the ones you mentioned, I'd suggest J.M. DeMatteis' run, most of which has gorgeous Mike Zeck art. He wrote maybe my favorite "Steve Rogers." The Dan Jurgens run, prior to the Marvel Knights Cap, is also really good stuff.
Captain America needs to return to fighting communists for a few years.
I agree. We need 1950s, Commie Smasher Cap back. But now there are way to many commies for Rogers to punch. Joseph McCarthy was right.
I haven't read Captain America monthly since Gruenwald's run in the 80s. To me he was always at his best in the Avengers.
Gruenwald is overrated imho.
@@seanmccallum6558 He was definitely hit or miss. Exhibit A is Cap Wolf. Cheesy for sure but people still reference it regularly today.
Gruenwald is my favorite run, the first half of it has such amazing art and I love the interplay between the villains. Also a big fan of the early 80's, especially the issues by Mike Zeck, check 'em out if you like Cap!
I just started that run and I'm at issue 350. It's been really interesting and fun so far with the replacement arc and the stuff with the serpent society. Its been action packed and deeper than I thought it would be.
Gruenwald run is my favorite too.The best Captain America version of all.Gruenwald passing was very sad and show us that Marvel needs of talents like him in caotic times like nowadays.
Gruenwald was metal.
Me too. Gruenwald's run was excellent.
Just like DC with Superman.
What’s funny is most people are wrong about Hydra Cap. And what I mean if you didn’t read Avengers Stand-off you wouldn’t have known that Red Skull manipulated the Cosmic Cube so it was obvious that Cosmic Cube replace the original Captain America with a controlled Hydra Cap all of that gave the story away, Nick Spencer knew a lot people knew about the Cosmic Cube thought he can shock us by saying no real Cap is Hydra. But the truth is Hydra Cap is not real Cap he listed from Marvel another universe and a creation of Cosmic Cube. Was the idea stupid hell yeah but I didn’t freak out because I knew the plan that Nick Spencer replaced the real Cap with Hydra Cap to make him look more interesting and add layers to Cap story. Marvel has treated Cap wrong for some years I don’t know why they don’t seem to know what to with Cap and that’s sad really. They need a good epic. Captain America story like a Hush thing you know.
@@uu119816 No but it needs to be like since Hush was a example of running through the gallery rogues of Batman it’s why people uses it as an example.
The thing is the movie fans aren't comic fans. As far as they're concerned the fix was hit after the 2nd credit scene. That continuity that method is what they're in for. Since buying and reading would be a chore to them maybe you got some looks but the live-action people don't want nor need comics since so much is being made. It's of inferior quality but still it's very casual friendly and easy to have the nerdy trendy feel to it.
Marvel didn't reach out to Coates because they wanted a good writer. They just wanted a high-profile black hire. Otherwise, they'd have let him write something other than Black Panther.
Captain America is one of my favorite characters of all time but he is done because the talent that is writing him is nonexistent.
I haved started collecting Captain America from the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and the early& mid 2000's. Not mention the occasional annuals and specials. However, I skipped the current Captain America series. Which sadly has been hijacked by SJW trolls.
The Sam Wilson Captain America run was very disappointing for me as a reader. In 2014 The Winter Soldier film in addition to The Ultimate run with Sam had generated interest within me to see more Sam Wilson. However he was doomed he barely got going in 2014 because of all the events that were wrapping up and the delay in Secret Wars. So it was only in late 2015 when Sam had his own title that we could finally get to know this character. However he was written as a step down from Steve Rogers, he was barely able to win any of the fights he got into and then secret empire happened. I recall an issue where Hydra Cap set up Sam in a mission so that he would fail. This built up to Sam walking away for awhile and eventually returned towards the end of Secret Empire, given all that happened one of the payoffs should of been Sam getting measurable revenge on Hydra Cap, instead he was an afterthought. The run failed miserably to the point that when Falcon had his own title it was cancelled.
Damn bro it hurts to see another Marvel Comics fan seeing their favorite character in the hands of incompetent writers and editors. I know that feeling all to well. It really hurts and makes you feel angry and frustrated. I’m going through the same with Spider-Man and X-Men
Falcon is metal in the movies.
@@garthwhitely9012 Marvel treated the x-men poorly in my opinion all because of Film rights. My friend had this joke it goes like this.... "what killed Wolverine in the comics?....film rights! What caused him to be revived ...Film Rights!. They buried the x-men for several years it was disgusting
@@buffbeenstuffed absolutely, when Fox had X-Men and Fantastic Four the X-Men books were ass. They changed Wanda and Pietro’s Origins and completely destroyed the continuity of them being Magneto’s children, worse then that they also said that they weren’t even mutants at all anymore. All because of the movie rights. Marvel completely cancelled the Fantastic Four comics all together. All out of spite and petty BS. Not to mention the worst thing that happened was the horrible
Marvel vs Capcom Infinite game. Since the EVO tournament started there has always been a marvel versus Capcom game every year, until Marvel vs Capcom infinite a piss poor roster and abysmal graphics and art style all because of Marvel’s terrible planning and incompetence
@@garthwhitely9012 They did exactly that. The retcon of Wanda and Quicksilver was so transparent. They also held back on releasing any x-men marvel legends figures for a time. Again now they own the rights you can now get marvel legends X men in the likeness of their fox incarnations. You don't make money being petty.
Mark Waid's run after Spencer was horrible. Just his rant against Trump in the form of King Baby. Issue 700 was perhaps the single worst issue for such a landmark number.
Wells there 2 runs from Waid. The one from the 90s, which is way better since Mark was in his prime, and then the one you just mentioned.
@@jojomojofofo The run from the 90's was really good.
@@jimwojton7369 After what Waid has done and all the things he said on twitter, I cannot bring myself to buy or read anything from the man.
@@zemox2534 I completely agree.
My favorite Captain America story is when he teamed up with Union Jack and fought Baron Blood!
Stern and Byrne! Classic!
Same here. That story was so much fun.
Christopher Priest miniseries of Captain America and the Falcon run of 2003 was pretty good. The character of Anti-Cap was very fascinating.
Your right on marketing. I had no idea Coates was on Captain America. On theory he would be a good fit, it could be an intriguing take on the earnest Cap, the old school American ideals in a country that doesn't reflect that anymore and how that earnestness can make him a a hero across culture and race.
I read somewhere in the comments about Marvel "hiring anti-American writers" and I had to laugh. I agree with you guys that there is so much over correction from the writers and seemingly no direction from up top. I feel like cap punching a Nazi right now should be powerful and sad, because that seems to be a reminder that we need.
I think in Spencer's head he was trying to do a commentary on your heros ideals suddenly being out of step or opposite of what you believed they stood for. Having an old skool cap ally fall into depression and turn to fascism and having cap have to process and deal with thats probably would have gone over much better but it would have required more nuance and minimal shock value
Coates is garbage on Cap.
This is why I like the fact that DC is ditching so much emphasis on continuity. I think Marvel should rotate writers and have an art team work on 4 or 6 issue stories until they get a plan. I love most of the Captain America short stories that have been published over the past decade.
I’ve been reading Cap since Heroes Return. Dropped the book when Coates was announced.
I said it once and I’ll say it again, Nick Spencer is not to be trusted. The higher up’s and the editors at Marvel is piss poor at managing the company. Since Disney acquired Marvel it’s been a shit show
The way Marvel has treated Steve Rogers over the last few years is nothing short of shameful and disrespectful. Turning Steve into a bloody Nazi is worse than Peter making a deal with Satan! AT least we got a few good stories afterwards and Peter has more or less been redeemed. But this, turning the symbol of hope and integrity for the world, not just America but the world, hero who was created by two Jewish writers, into a Nazi, is beyond disrespectful. Ever since Empire, The writing for Captain America has gotten worse and worse. He is just shell of what he used to be, of what he used to stand for and that is just heart breaking.
If you read any of T. Coates non-comic stuff this dude should be NO WHERE near comics let alone Captain America. No disrespect to Wes or Joe, but Coates Black Panther was shit!
Never said it was good, said the Wakanda you see in the MCU is adapted directly from his first run.
@@Wes_From_TC 100% agree...
@@Wes_From_TC Wes the best BP run is the '98 Christopher Priest Mark Texeira series.
@@BizarroIrishman Sadly this run never was published here in my country.
Joe kinda sounds like Adam Carolla at times.
Hail Hydra was my final dropping off point. I haven't bought a single Marvel comic since, and never will
Marvel is in the business of generating content for the movies instead of writing their best stories for comics. Again, no writer at the Big two wants to give their best stories away for nothing. When will the industry acknowledge this silent truth. This has been the case since Walking Dead hit hard & streaming took off.
cap was my dude in the 80's, i actually found his comics to be more entertaining than uncanny x-men at the time.
I don’t believe marvel wants to do a good solo captain America book . I would give the series a break , amd have him be exclusively in a Avengers books
To be fair, about Secret Empire's ending, the ending was sucked because of the mounting pressure and backlash to the story, which Marvel really should have prepared for, but for some reason didn't. I think Spencer just got a bit tired/impatient and wanted to quit the story. It's pretty clear that wasn't the original ending plan. Why Marvel thought they wouldn't receive backlash when turning Captain America into a Nazi, even if it was just for an event? I have no clue.
Armadillo is an Icon
Facts
Joe is the best guest ever.
I still say that Secret Empire Mess could have been saved if they just said that Captain America, Thor, Hulk, and Hank Pym were all from the Ultimates universe. The Maker was already here, in the Ultimates comic, so it wouldn't have been a stretch. And since the Ultimate Marvel universe was a bit more... harsh, then the Hulk's original return from the dead then death, Thor's ease in following a Hydra Cap, and Captain America himself falling for a more fascist patriotism would fit. Then we could have found 616 Steve Rogers in a better place than in the "magic cube", maybe given up by Ultimate Iron Man. This way, when Ewing [spoiler... but giving it away anyway] has the Maker bring the Ulinmates (from his universe) to him and kills Captain America, it would have been more satisfying.
I can't even remember the last time I read Captain America, the character has been atrociously written for so long now.
Remember Kevin feign took over all of marvel he approves all.
Now remember pearlmutter was the problem yet Kevin gives us captain marvel and a meaningless black widow and now fat Thor as well as love an thunder.
2010 to present day - skip, Early 2000s - Burbaker/Epting, 1990s - skip, 1980s - Stern/Byrne, 1980s DeMatthes/Zeck, and 1970s Englehart/Sal Buscema.
Mark Waid's 90's run was great too! So was Gruenwald in the 80's.
The Waid-Garney first Cap run ("Operation Rebirth") back in the 90s brought me back to the title on a regular basis since the Zeck days. I think it's very overlooked these days. However Heroes Reborn "interrupted," and unforunately their Heroes Return reboot felt flat to me. Others: I will always wish Steranko would've worked on more than just three issues (but what three issues they were!). And I know I'm in the minority on this, but I really enjoy the craziness of the 70s Kirby run.
Superhero characters aren’t dead just who is writing them decides who is dead.
12:41 no no no doesn't make sense misreading the market and your customers a few times its normal but doing it continuously it's not
I don't think Marvel or DC should have continued publishing titles featuring the same few characters for so long. Yes, I appreciated Captain America being brought back in the Sixties, but he already seemed a bit over-used and rudderless in the mid-70s. Even at the time, while I really liked the character, I thought he should have been mothballed in favor of other characters. When they don't set the older characters aside to focus on new ones, they force too many stories, and that eventually destroys the character. You end up stretching the boundaries so far the character no longer has a meaning.
This breaks my heart as a fan. Cap is a character who is as Patriotic as Superman. Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, and Joe Simon would be ashamed of what modern Marvel has become.
Just listening to this l, it sounds like Adam Corolla is on.
I’m only familiar with Captain America from the 70’s and 80’s. I haven’t seen any of his current run except for Civil War and what they did to him is a travesty.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes civil war. I just didn't like the concept and the characterizations feel off.
@@TheNickcone Tony,Peter,Setve and even the Punisher ,all them uncharacterized in that shitty event.
I feel the same way about Civil War. They basically turned Tony into a fascist.
Drinking game: every time Joe says "yeah, no" take a drink. You will be drunk in 20 minutes. Lol.
20 minute mark on...Yep.Agreed.
Unpopular opinion, I found Pleasant Hill and Secret Empire pretty good. People hated as soon as they read the "Hail Hydra", of course, but in reality it was a pretty cool storyline
Any recommended runs of Cap? I've always been intrigued by the character.
I suggest the Brubaker run or Waid and Ron Garney.
@@Wes_From_TC why not Jack Kirby one too?
@@space.pirate481 haven't read it yet
well me neither but i will ,feelsbad cause a lot of golden,silver,bronze age illustrators didnt got enough credit,same goes with Bill Finger
They bring them down, the aspirational characters like Superman, Captain America, Luke Skywalker, just so they can feel justified in how they are...instead of trying to be better.
After JMS run on Cap, throw it over to Tom King so that he can put the final nail in the coffin.
I think endgame murder this character. Having Cap go back in time , to be with peggy, destroying everything he did in the 3 cap movies, killed his charcter, it broke my heart in so many pieces. Endgame was a insult to the Cap character.
Cap was by childhood favourite super hero in the 70's/80's. Now as an adult I've recently started to collect the back issues up to the early 2000's. I'll probably get the Winter Soldier Brubaker graphic novel but have no interest in Cap comics after that. Love the Movie representation of him, although I feel Cap would never have made the decision he did to stay with Peggy or hand over the shield to Sam, I get the argument for that thinking, but think Steve would chosen Bucky. Unfortunately Cap, like other heroes are just a tool now for woke ideologies.
Same here. I can't see Cap quitting in general. Plus, it's suprising the writers went with Sam because his tenure as Cap in the comics wasn't well received.
@@jonathancraddock1810 I think they went with Sam because it was the more 'progressive' choice in this modern day despite everything within the movies pointing to Bucky. Steve risk the Avengers and his reputation for his best friend, who was far more able to take on the mantel of Cap and would have been a far better redemption arc for him.
Good point Necromosis X. I felt the same way about Bucky. Steve knew Bucky longer also which feels more natural.
It's very hard to read Vol.9....He goes tie toe to toe with the Hulk,Thanos...and needs help from Ladies of Liberty to beat one villain...or needs help to beat Red Skull.
Uhhhh,NOPE!!!
Captain America is so bad that the Mutant Selene was on a major human killing spree and no one knew about it?!
Beautiful Alex Ross covers and TERRIBLE art inside.
Sad, just sad.
I’d take Nick Spencer’s Cap over Coates. His run has to be the worst I can recall. Even Cap in Dimension Z (or whatever the hell it was) was more entertaining than what I’m reading now. I think Ed Brubaker, with his Winter Soldier run, was a modern classic, up there with Snyder’s Court of Owls run in Batman.
Lore of The Rise and Fall of Captain America…A Modern Comic Casualty momentum 100
Read most of the Brubaker trades recently. They don't hold up at all. Average to poor. The Ultimates was waaaaay more interesting...
Red Skull was WASTED in this run.Same a Green Goblin recently in Spider-Man.
I buy the run because of Winter Soldier appearances now.Sad.
I didn't like Englehart's run, it had great art but the social politics are unrelenting and I just wasn't into it.
Its rumored they are bringing hydra cap into the mcu
Whatever it takes to kill the MCU!
That will be a nightmare. Marvel studios is becoming all new all different Marvel.
remender;s run was pretty good. and priest's cap and falcon, that came out the same time as brubaker, was great. didn't the sales of marvel's entire slate drop after the reveal? remember spenser and alonzo kept saying this is the real steve rogers. do you think they were going to leave captain hydra as the only steve? btw where were the daughters of liberty when captain hydra was taking over the country? no original cap is not still a nazi he is DEAD! coats just killed him of in a sort of after thought kind of way. coats 's cap are getting the oversize hardcover treatment. they hardly do that for books these days. coats is a big get for them. hey look at this award winning writer we got! he writes for normie magazines. he has the right politics. when you say they arent promoting this book could you give me of an example of a book they do promote? the big 2 don't promote anything they put house ads up and send synopsis to CBR and newsrama, who just reprint them as is.
Abysmal stories like this are why I take my entertainment dollars elsewhere.
Oh go kiss off! Everybody loves Cap! What a pessimist
Is Joe Corallo a historian because in fo is WAAY off! Joe Simon and Kirby started the romance comics movement and although Martin Goodman flirted with the idea of bringing back Timely's heroes he quickly gave up. It was the success of DC's new versions of their super heroes that sparked the Silver Age; their Justice League of America comic which inspired the production of The Fantastic Four!
BTW The Leader of Secret Empire COULDN'T be Nixon because Nixon didn't commit suicide!
This discussion reminds me not to take super hero comics too seriously...
Hey Pulsar! Not sure what I said that was way off. I did credit Kirby for being a pioneer on romance comics and they did really take off in the 50s. Also your statement on the Justice League inspiring the production of the Fantastic Four isn't entirely accurate as they're based on another Kirby creation, Challengers of the Unknown. Stan has talked before about how the Fantastic Four was a last ditch effort to do what he really wanted to do before giving up on comics, and while they were competing with new titles like Justice League, Avengers was more in that same vain, as X-Men was borrowing heavily from Doom Patrol as Arnold Drake says he became more and more convinced of over the years. Either way I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment! And I love the character reference in your handle here. Love me some Shooter Legion.
@@jcoral1 Actually, Justice League WAS the inspiration for the FF! This is an OLD story told and retold.
The legend is that Martin Goodman was playing golf with a boss at DC who bragged about the sales of JLA! After the game Goodman got in touch with Lee and told him to create a team of super heroes for Marvel!
In his magazine Alter Ego, Roy Thomas questioned the golf story but Marvel had to have noticed the sales also many, including Thomas didn't see it as coincidental that the cover of FF #1 had a similar composition to that of JLA's first appearance in Brave and The Bold!
The bit about doing different types of heroes is true but that was AFTER Lee got the order from Goodman, as per the advice from Lee's wife. Lee himself said repeatedly his new approach started out as a joke!
27:48 that didn't age well
They just want to appeal to the woke culture
Comment for algorithm.
Ms Marvel > Captain Marvel
Ta nehesi Coates was only put on captain America bc he haytes wheiyte culture and people.
He has written books about his disdain for the opposite race. Ive read his own words in print and recordings say this.
The fact is that he wants people to suffer bc they were born a certain way. He has said this in interviews and writings in novels and other books.
They, marvel, take mr negativity and unleash him on The good ole American Soldier with the goal to destroy the character, history, lore, and fan following.
He has accomplished that goal in 2 years. Cap ia being lead by the nose by a team of uppity female characters across america punishing American citizens for wrong think.
I will never buy A T. Coates book ever. Never ever never ever never ever.
My fav character is Thor. If coates is put on thor...i will not buy it until he is off the title.