The fact that all you western so-called EO here defend that blasphemer & his pretentious pagan farytales & think that is orthodox is the proof of how bad the state of the Church in the west.
Hasn’t it been fun getting into this universe and then watching all your favorite people start talking to each other, I remember the days I prayed for Bishop Barron and Peterson to talk and now they’ve got a whole Gospels seminar
Jonathan & the American "orthodox" celebrate according to the new calendar! I can't believe it!! "Some Orthodox"? No, all EO suppose to celebrate according to the Julian calendar. What a buffoon your Jonathan!))
@@adriandrozdek9769 The fact that you "EO" in the west think that the Gnostic Pegeau & his pagan farytales or blasphemous pretentious allegorizing is Orthodoxy is a proof of the low state of the Church in the west...
@EOShorts My point is no one has the right to call himself an EO when he cheers for a Gnostic pagan false prophet as Pegeau. Why aren't you outraged with the abomination he promotes?
I just spent the last 6 months taking care of a lady who was Russian orthodox she was raised that way. She had 13 brothers and sisters. She died right before Christmas but she was absolutely amazing and I gleaned so much from her ❤ just wanted to honor her.
@RussianLionboy if your calling people pagan that means you are... Christian? Most people who voted for trump wanted to stop wars. I don't think I would take criticism from a Christian who thirsts for blood and trolls for fury. Change your tactic and I would listen to what you have to say.
I feel like being in the Orthodox church, the mere presence there during a liturgy, the mere reciting of the prayers from the Bible, because it's all biblical, just always brings me to tears. Standing and sacrificing yourself for Christ, embracing the goal of theosis, bettering yourself for your brethren, there's so much depth to that. It feels so much bigger than the self. I love Catholicism too because of Mary's deep and pervading love of her children, and bring that understanding of the rosary to my veneration of the Theotokos. This ultimate respect for God in Orthodoxy is so special. As an Orthodox person who regularly goes to Mass and Liturgy, I wish the church was united because I feel like the Orthodox faith misses out on closeness with Jesus through his mother in an emotional and familial way and Catholicism could gain that emotional humble sacrifice of the self. In the same way that I think that Catholicism could stress more the process of theosis and cleansing of sins through compassion, to see sin as a disease and not a legal act. If people experienced both sides, there is so much understanding and growth that can come with that.
I attend / worship primarily in the Byzantine rite but absolutely love the traditional Latin Mass as well Words cannot adequately express the beauty of those rites and the closeness that one is drawn to God while worshiping in these traditional rites
Kinda crazy how similar me an Pageau's story is. I am a Cajun from Louisiana. I have a strong Catholic family history. I was raised protestant, never baptized as a Catholic. Around 19-20 yrs I found and fell in love with Orthodoxy(never gave Catholicism a fair shake) and now i'm Roman Catholic. But I still love Orthodoxy. I came to the conclusion that Catholicism and Orthodox differences are so little, that it didn't make sense to remain separate from the Church that is rightfully mine. This is my church that was taken from me. I feel this is my people and this is my heritage. But Louisiana didn't abandon Catholicism like Quebec did.. It's still pretty strong here.
I’m different because I’m a Cajun that did decide to convert. There are significant differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. And I don’t think Cajuns abandoned Catholicism, but Catholicism abandoned us. My grandparents were beaten by Catholic nuns for speaking French. The Bishop of Lafayette was known for refusing to do funerals for people who committed suicide, but frequently took bribes and did funerals for suicide victims whose families paid enough. Annulments come by easy. Priests don’t commune mentally disabled people. And on the larger scale the Pachamama debacle proved that the Pope isn’t infallible with regards to faith and morals. So why even be Catholic? Some say that’s my heritage, but Saint Paul tells gentile converts to Christianity that Abraham is their ancestor. So I’m comfortable with Orthodoxy being the true religion of my ancestors because my ancestors are the Church Triumphant
@SirMemesAlot71 I'm not gonna deny the bad things you speak of, but are you really abandoning Cathaolicism because of corrupt hierarchs and sinful people? When you undoubtedly encounter corrupt and sinful Orthodox hierarchs, are you going to abandon them as well? That's not a good reason. I am aware of the bad things Catholicism has been a part of, at least the corruption. But I am determined to be a part of the solution, to fight for the Church, not abandon it. That's what commitment is.
@@SirMemesAlot71 Was Pope Francis kneeling before a statue of Our Lady of the Amazon, which has already been proven NOT to represent Pachamama, an ex cathedra statement? Even if the statue were an idol of Pachamama, he wouldn't have been infallibly defining dogma on faith or morals. Papal infallibility doesn't prevent the Pope from ever sinning or doing anything inadvisable. That part of your comment alone demonstrates that you were severely lacking in your understanding your Catholic faith. You are always welcome back in the Church! If you're going to remain Orthodox, I'd encourage you to at least comprehensively understand the faith you left.
@laurmhayes it's hard to understand Catholicism when it doesn't understand itself. It's been constantly changing for the last 1000 years and is not backwards compatible with itself through time.
@@AugustasKunc What's more coherent - That the scope of the Papacy grew over time as the Church grew (Catholicism), or that the One True Church has been out of its own 'First Among Equals' for 1000 years? (Orthodoxy)
this podcast randomly popped up and auto played..and *i ENJOYED* listening to this guy with a ponytail talking ang breaking down the meaning of _snow white_ many thanks happy new year 2025 everyone
🇷🇺☦️Then why are you happy with a western Gnostic pagan like Jonathan? You like it when he promotes the demonic worldly farytales & impose that trash on Scriptures?
I learned that cemeteries bury the dead facing East, specifically because of the resurrection, when they rise they’ll be facing eastward. I hope that’s true, I learned that when I buried my mother, memory eternal 🕯
I wonder what the current teaching is on those that have been cremated or who's bodies were destroyed? The bodies of many early Christians will be dust by now. Personally I think the state of your body doesn't matter and God will be easily able to ressurect anyone he wants.
As an Orthodox myself (who is a Pageau fan) I've got to correct him on the "Old Calendarist" thing. There is a difference between churches using the Old Calendar and the "Old Calendarist" movement. Old Calendarist are a schismatic group that split away because they made an idol out of tradition. You can maybe think of them as the Orthodox version of Sedevacantists. The names get confusing. I myself prefer the Old Calendar but I'm not an "Old Calendarist" in the sense of being that schismatic group.
@Mike-tz4cm yeah. I thought I remembered him saying years ago he had been in rocor. Either way, a fair portion of the jurisdictions still use the old calender. I can't fathom he didn't know that.
Wow, I just started listening. Anyway, I found your comment very interesting and I have never heard of the old calendarists or anything relevant to the topic. Thank you! Gives me something to read about today. 👍😇
Watching Matt help Jonathan with his cigar and Jonathan help Matt with concepts is just a perfect representation of the current structure (and the hope for reunity!) in our schismed church.
@@ExerciseForLifePls There is a lot to it, but probably the biggest reason came down to Pageau's descriptions of head and body as fractal realities. A functioning body has those two elements: head and body. Obviously Christ is head of every part of his body, but the Catholic Church is the only functioning body that also has a visible head at every epistemic and ontological level. Assuming you're familiar at all with Paguea's work, that's probably as short an answer as I could give.
@@LHWakefield I think you are forgetting that Christ is physically present in the Church, and that Bishops represent Christ, and at the top of that ladder is patriarchs. The pope is just one Bishop, in the early church the Bishop of rome didnt have universal jurisdiction. Each patriarch was that representation of the one head which is Christ.
Thank you for having Jonathan on - I can't help but escape the irony that this talk is sponsored by Hallow, which is financed by Peter Thiel who also provided funding for Neuralink and is good friends with Elon.
Jordan peterson is THE reason I’m a Christian today. If he needs more time than I do it’s probably because he’s 10x smarter than me. He’s also the person who introduced me to Mr. Pageau who then introduced me to orthodoxy. Then I saw an Orthodox Church and I had to pay a visit. First time in a church not for a funeral or wedding in 20+ years. Now I just need to work out my overnight work schedule so I can get back there every Sunday without staying up all night.
17:02 I’m 44, the first time I used a computer was at 19, in college. I got my first smartphone in 2006 and my first iPhone in 2010. My mom typed my papers on a typewriter for me in middle and high school. My kids are being raised without “technology” at all. Farm life, real work, writing and reading. Life is so calm and natural for them!!
As a Methodist who was just awakened by our schism, I am yearning for doctrinal and lived orthodoxy. The mainline Protestant denominations began their drift in the late 19th century when they started competing to comfort an affluent audience.
The irony of him talking about orienting to the divine while ignoring the divine and orienting to his phone. I think Jordan struggles with sitting still and not overanalyzing everything
This must be the most interesting conversation I've witnessed in a long time. Jonathan appeared to feel really comfortable and was giving away profound insights like candy bars. Thank you both for this wonderfull and enriching experience!
HELL YEAH!!! dude, I have never seen Jonathan ever once get worked up and emotional about anything EVER, so when he finally got passionate about the bodily resurrection, that was amazing. like JP, you never know if this guy really believes anything actually happened or not, so that was awesome to see him do. Thank you for this video.
Orthodox priest here offering a clarification. "Old Calendarist" is a term used to describe schismatic groups that broke off from local Orthodox Churches that adopted the new calendar (essentially this is the Gregorian calendar that retains the Julian calculation of Pascha) in the early 20th century. Not all Orthodox Patriarchates adopted the new calendar, and those who remained on the Julian Calendar do not identify with or call themselves Old Calendarist, as this is a schismatic movement within other Orthodox Patriarchates not associated with them. This is a common misunderstanding for those who haven't looked closely in this issue. Old Calendarists aren't in communion with Orthodox Patriarchates who are still on the Julian Calendar (Russia, Serbia, Jerusalem, and others).
Amazing conversation gentlemen! It’s such a pleasure to listen to you two. Matt: anytime you have someone on to discuss fairytales it is AWESOME! Your interview with Nicholas Kotar was phenomenal in this way as well. I’ve always loved fairytales but was raised Protestant fundamentalist so I was never really allowed to read them. The most I was allowed was The Chronicles of Narnia, only because I wrote a paper defending it and pointing out to my mom that it was an obvious Christian allegory lol. Rediscovering them as an adult and hearing a deeper analysis of them has been a beautiful experience ❤
Good conversation. I love the part when they talked about the most significant argument for atheists. Then the discussion led to the role of sufferings in our life. Then, the discussion went to “carrying the cross to follow Christ.” Excellent.
I like Pageau's artwork. I stumbled upon him a few years ago, i think i was looking up iconography or something. Yhen he started appearing with Jordan Peterson a ton, now he's on Pints. I just started the interview and I like how he didnt know answers to several questions and he responded humbly and confidently. I know he's super smart, but its always refreshing to see these rockstars are regular people like you and me.
As a convert to Orthodoxy ☦️, the faith has been such a light in my life and brought me closer to Christ. As a former Catholic working in the church, I felt no where near as close as I do now. The liturgy, mysticism, and emphasis on prayer has changed my life.
Wonderful interview! Brings back all the wonder I felt reading Jung, Campbell, Eliade. I’d love to see Pageau, Iain McGilchrist and Bishop Barron on the same stage!
31:34 No no no! The Old Calendarists are not the same as the Orthodox that follow the Julian calendar! The Old Calendarists are a sect of the Greek Orthodox that broke with the church to follow the Julian calendar...
Thank you for this conversation! I have listened to Jonathon on the Exodus, Gospel, etc. series, but I didn't always understand his explanations. This was so helpful!
Jonathan pageau is simply at another level, he's a genius and he has a way to see, read and process reality that it makes me feel so blessed to be able to hear him and his teachings.
Love fairy tales in their original form! So good to hear the interpretations of them as an adult! Going to have to find his books! Hadn’t heard of him before this interview!
Well lets face it, what Christian Church would accept someone who said they are not a sinner. Cardinal Nichols of England, some years ago said that because of the scandals in the Church, some who had left years earlier returned citing that their apostasy was surely a part of the problem. They hadn't forgotten they were a member of the mystical body of Christ. Btw I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thanks to both of you.
Jonathan Pageau is the only one who still gives me pause in my ongoing process towards becoming a Catholic (from the starting point of being non-religious). It seems like he may be on to something extremely important that I don't want to miss out on
I actually didn’t find him through Peterson. I was YouTubing literally “ why I became Orthodox “ and found a short video of him. In my searching on Orthodoxy he kept coming up and then found out he traveled with Peterson and that was just a cherry on top.
I'm so glad you two are meeting again. I have the feeling that the first time didn't go very well, the second time was far better, let's see how this one goes. Happy new year!
Love you guys both! But having lived in Russia, Israel and Jordan, I can say that just "soaking in the culture" 9:37 does not translate to a well catechized "flock." They 100% need catechism or Sunday school and all the rest.
Harsh and 19th century - I agree with your take on FSSP. I went there several years and also a bit of time in SSPX when I returned to the church in 2017 only to finally come to that conclusion. The 19th century art especially started to feel so cloyingly sentimental it shutdown my sense of wonder. I progressively kept having the CS Lewis book -"Till We Have Faces" come to mind. Until we have faces, until we have faces I kept thinking. Always popping in mind. I'm looking forward to Annie Crawfords lectures on that book that starts this coming Friday.
Extremely difficult to enjoy this conversation when Matt interrupts all the time, especially when Jonathan is just in the middle of saying something interesting. Matt! Stoooooop!
I love Jonathan Pageau. Been listening to him for a very long time. I do think that Jordan Peterson was where I heard about Jonathan first. I’m glad that Matt has him on his channel. We are learning so much from these intellectuals out there who are in love with the Lord. It’s wonderful. But of course, worshiping the Lord is better than knowledge, so we have to remember never to.stop worshipping!
2:12:44-2:20:00 is super vital, I feel, for a lot of skeptics and even doubtful believers who are wrestling with the all encompassing reality of Gods sacramental nature of the faith, and how he operates through the church in the material world. You can’t come to an acceptance of the reality of the Eucharist, if you don’t have eyes to see what’s literally in the story of the gospels. It’s so profound and even I can’t say I truly grasp its nature.
ln 2025 l highly recommend everyone to read keezano’s book Your Life Your Game. It beautifully shows how connecting with God and focusing on your family can lead to spiritual growth, stronger relationships, and success in both your personal and professional life. This book truly changed my life… A must-read. God bless💗
I’ve heard a bit on how suffering may be the atheist’s best argument. I strongly feel it is one of the best refutations against atheism. Jonathan and Matt lay it out so well @ about 1:28:24. Well done!
Please consider joining our Locals community --> mattfradd.locals.com/support
@@pintswithaquinas hey matt would you be interested in interviewing one the most theologically equipped in the orthodox dogma? Fr Nikolaos loudovikos.
Jonathan Pageau is the man! God bless you both
@@RootsofOrthodoxy Yes, the pagan Gnostic man, along with his Postmodernist false prophet JP.
The fact that all you western so-called EO here defend that blasphemer & his pretentious pagan farytales & think that is orthodox is the proof of how bad the state of the Church in the west.
@@RootsofOrthodoxy For real tho, Pageau is the man!
Who else is here because they found Jonathan Pageau through Jordan Peterson? Love to both those men!
@@Heathrlea Peterson to Pints to Pageau and here I am again at Pints
I also!
Two great Gents
Hasn’t it been fun getting into this universe and then watching all your favorite people start talking to each other, I remember the days I prayed for Bishop Barron and Peterson to talk and now they’ve got a whole Gospels seminar
My path was Peterson -> Pageau -> Pints
This is probably the most relaxed I've seen Jonathan in an interview, so great.
Give him more alcohol and cigars, apparently. He does often have this sort of low-level anxiety that you can feel through the screen.
Scotch and cigars do the trick haha
The cigar and low lighting. He also had his hair tied back lol
☦️He is always relaxed when he preaches his pagan farytsles & "symbolic world".
Definitely, this really speaks to Matt Fradd as an interviewer too.
Jonathan played the most important role in my decision to get baptized in the Church. I will be forever grateful for this!
Jonathan & the American "orthodox" celebrate according to the new calendar! I can't believe it!! "Some Orthodox"? No, all EO suppose to celebrate according to the Julian calendar. What a buffoon your Jonathan!))
@@adriandrozdek9769 same 🥰
@@adriandrozdek9769 The fact that you "EO" in the west think that the Gnostic Pegeau & his pagan farytales or blasphemous pretentious allegorizing is Orthodoxy is a proof of the low state of the Church in the west...
Jonathan the so called "EO" played the most important role in eradicating Christianity in the west.
@adriandrozdek9769 same here! Glory to God!
As an orthodox Christian who loves Pints/Matt Fradd this is a nice new years gift!
Same!
@@EOShortsAnother westerner larping...God help us all...
@@RussianLionboy I don’t understand your comment 🥺
@EOShorts My point is no one has the right to call himself an EO when he cheers for a Gnostic pagan false prophet as Pegeau. Why aren't you outraged with the abomination he promotes?
@EOShorts My point is: if you are EO why aren't you outraged & instead cheer for that Gnostic pagan false prophet?
I just spent the last 6 months taking care of a lady who was Russian orthodox she was raised that way. She had 13 brothers and sisters. She died right before Christmas but she was absolutely amazing and I gleaned so much from her ❤ just wanted to honor her.
🥰😇😘
Glory to God! May her memory be eternal.
Getting Jonathan to talk for 3 hours. This has got to be the record. Love you gentlemen, good conversation. God bless.
He had a good one on Theories of Everything a few weeks back. Not as laid back as this one but very good.
The Brothers Pageau should be remembered in this time...
💯
In a fairytale like the Grimm brothers.
Bring on mah boy matthieu!
@@joshranowsky8083☦️Yes, the pagan trash that your Gnostic pseudo-orthodox promotes.
As an Orthodox man with two kids and a wife, this conversation was absolutely brilliant. So deep in so many ways.
Thanks gentlemen.
This is the best I’ve ever heard Pageau articulate himself and symbolism. Matt seems to be a perfect fit to bring out the best in him.
@@Pally-Main Do you like his pathetic pretentious pagan blasphemous allegories as much as the clown Trump's nonsense?
@RussianLionboy if your calling people pagan that means you are... Christian?
Most people who voted for trump wanted to stop wars.
I don't think I would take criticism from a Christian who thirsts for blood and trolls for fury.
Change your tactic and I would listen to what you have to say.
@@RussianLionboywow & happy new year to you too 🥴
@midmomom2490 Marry Christmas tomorrow not a happy new year🙏❤️
@@RussianLionboy bot
Love seeing Pageau all over. Definitely helped me understand Orthodoxy years ago and now I'm in the church! Bless this man. ☦
Glory to God
Jonathan Pageau, fine way to start the new year 🥂
@@DerekJFiedler Yes, with pagan farytales & pretentious Postmodernist blasphemies, yeah real "orthodox"...
I feel like being in the Orthodox church, the mere presence there during a liturgy, the mere reciting of the prayers from the Bible, because it's all biblical, just always brings me to tears. Standing and sacrificing yourself for Christ, embracing the goal of theosis, bettering yourself for your brethren, there's so much depth to that. It feels so much bigger than the self. I love Catholicism too because of Mary's deep and pervading love of her children, and bring that understanding of the rosary to my veneration of the Theotokos. This ultimate respect for God in Orthodoxy is so special. As an Orthodox person who regularly goes to Mass and Liturgy, I wish the church was united because I feel like the Orthodox faith misses out on closeness with Jesus through his mother in an emotional and familial way and Catholicism could gain that emotional humble sacrifice of the self. In the same way that I think that Catholicism could stress more the process of theosis and cleansing of sins through compassion, to see sin as a disease and not a legal act. If people experienced both sides, there is so much understanding and growth that can come with that.
I attend / worship primarily in the Byzantine rite but absolutely love the traditional Latin Mass as well
Words cannot adequately express the beauty of those rites and the closeness that one is drawn to God while worshiping in these traditional rites
thats why Byzantine catholics have the best of both worlds
Kinda crazy how similar me an Pageau's story is. I am a Cajun from Louisiana. I have a strong Catholic family history. I was raised protestant, never baptized as a Catholic. Around 19-20 yrs I found and fell in love with Orthodoxy(never gave Catholicism a fair shake) and now i'm Roman Catholic. But I still love Orthodoxy. I came to the conclusion that Catholicism and Orthodox differences are so little, that it didn't make sense to remain separate from the Church that is rightfully mine. This is my church that was taken from me. I feel this is my people and this is my heritage. But Louisiana didn't abandon Catholicism like Quebec did.. It's still pretty strong here.
I’m different because I’m a Cajun that did decide to convert. There are significant differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. And I don’t think Cajuns abandoned Catholicism, but Catholicism abandoned us. My grandparents were beaten by Catholic nuns for speaking French. The Bishop of Lafayette was known for refusing to do funerals for people who committed suicide, but frequently took bribes and did funerals for suicide victims whose families paid enough. Annulments come by easy. Priests don’t commune mentally disabled people.
And on the larger scale the Pachamama debacle proved that the Pope isn’t infallible with regards to faith and morals. So why even be Catholic? Some say that’s my heritage, but Saint Paul tells gentile converts to Christianity that Abraham is their ancestor. So I’m comfortable with Orthodoxy being the true religion of my ancestors because my ancestors are the Church Triumphant
@SirMemesAlot71
I'm not gonna deny the bad things you speak of, but are you really abandoning Cathaolicism because of corrupt hierarchs and sinful people? When you undoubtedly encounter corrupt and sinful Orthodox hierarchs, are you going to abandon them as well? That's not a good reason.
I am aware of the bad things Catholicism has been a part of, at least the corruption. But I am determined to be a part of the solution, to fight for the Church, not abandon it. That's what commitment is.
@@SirMemesAlot71 Was Pope Francis kneeling before a statue of Our Lady of the Amazon, which has already been proven NOT to represent Pachamama, an ex cathedra statement? Even if the statue were an idol of Pachamama, he wouldn't have been infallibly defining dogma on faith or morals. Papal infallibility doesn't prevent the Pope from ever sinning or doing anything inadvisable. That part of your comment alone demonstrates that you were severely lacking in your understanding your Catholic faith. You are always welcome back in the Church! If you're going to remain Orthodox, I'd encourage you to at least comprehensively understand the faith you left.
@laurmhayes it's hard to understand Catholicism when it doesn't understand itself. It's been constantly changing for the last 1000 years and is not backwards compatible with itself through time.
@@AugustasKunc What's more coherent - That the scope of the Papacy grew over time as the Church grew (Catholicism), or that the One True Church has been out of its own 'First Among Equals' for 1000 years? (Orthodoxy)
The way Jonathan thinks, talks, how he explaines the fairy tales and how it arches into our lifes it’s just excellent. Thank you!
"The children who were raised to get anything they want anytime they want, now they want meaning."
Powerful
Very clear and true statement. To drill down…now [some] want meaning.
That was like the Pageau version of that quote from Fight Club 😂
What a podcast-haven’t watched a podcast that was 3 hours in a long time. What a great conversation!
this podcast randomly popped up and auto played..and *i ENJOYED* listening to this guy with a ponytail talking ang breaking down the meaning of _snow white_
many thanks
happy new year 2025 everyone
Συγχαρητήρια
Greetings from Corinth 🇬🇷☦️
Χαίρετε η μάνα μου κορινθία. Καλή χρονιά από το καναδά🇨🇦☦️
🇷🇺☦️Then why are you happy with a western Gnostic pagan like Jonathan? You like it when he promotes the demonic worldly farytales & impose that trash on Scriptures?
@@1bonatsosYou like it when the fake "orthodox" Pegeau imposes the pagan farytales on our faith?
🇷🇺☦️Have you no shame cheering for a Gnostic pagan who spews heresy?
I learned that cemeteries bury the dead facing East, specifically because of the resurrection, when they rise they’ll be facing eastward. I hope that’s true, I learned that when I buried my mother, memory eternal 🕯
@@EOShorts yes it is true. All the graves aligned east to west and it is mandatory that the deceased are facing east
I wonder what the current teaching is on those that have been cremated or who's bodies were destroyed? The bodies of many early Christians will be dust by now. Personally I think the state of your body doesn't matter and God will be easily able to ressurect anyone he wants.
As an Orthodox myself (who is a Pageau fan) I've got to correct him on the "Old Calendarist" thing. There is a difference between churches using the Old Calendar and the "Old Calendarist" movement. Old Calendarist are a schismatic group that split away because they made an idol out of tradition. You can maybe think of them as the Orthodox version of Sedevacantists. The names get confusing. I myself prefer the Old Calendar but I'm not an "Old Calendarist" in the sense of being that schismatic group.
@烏梨師斂 I think Pageau is under rocor. Which would put him in the old calender. I'd imagine he would've known that.
Irony
@@BarbaPaminoHe said in the video he attends an OCA parish
@Mike-tz4cm yeah. I thought I remembered him saying years ago he had been in rocor.
Either way, a fair portion of the jurisdictions still use the old calender. I can't fathom he didn't know that.
Wow, I just started listening. Anyway, I found your comment very interesting and I have never heard of the old calendarists or anything relevant to the topic. Thank you! Gives me something to read about today. 👍😇
Watching Matt help Jonathan with his cigar and Jonathan help Matt with concepts is just a perfect representation of the current structure (and the hope for reunity!) in our schismed church.
I became Catholic largely due to Jonathan’s influence. Thank you for having him on!
Interesting, why Catholicism than John’s Orthodoxy then?
@@ExerciseForLifePls There is a lot to it, but probably the biggest reason came down to Pageau's descriptions of head and body as fractal realities. A functioning body has those two elements: head and body. Obviously Christ is head of every part of his body, but the Catholic Church is the only functioning body that also has a visible head at every epistemic and ontological level. Assuming you're familiar at all with Paguea's work, that's probably as short an answer as I could give.
@@LHWakefield I think you are forgetting that Christ is physically present in the Church, and that Bishops represent Christ, and at the top of that ladder is patriarchs. The pope is just one Bishop, in the early church the Bishop of rome didnt have universal jurisdiction. Each patriarch was that representation of the one head which is Christ.
@@aident.4165 no, I am very aware of His presence!
@@aident.4165 no, I’m very aware of His real presence!
This is definitely one of my favorite PWA episodes ever. My goodness, just absolutely incredible. Thank you!
This is such a beautiful conversation between two men trying their best to live a life of righteousness. Thanks to you both and may God bless you.
As an Orthodox convert from Catholicism, I’m very happy you had Jonathan on the show! ☦️
@@randomjake1488 Sorry to break it to you but you are a convert to Gnostic Postmodernist new-age paganism not to Orthodoxy. Repent.
Jonathan and Matt has to be the best podcast combo ever. My two favorite TH-camrs.
Thank you for having Jonathan on - I can't help but escape the irony that this talk is sponsored by Hallow, which is financed by Peter Thiel who also provided funding for Neuralink and is good friends with Elon.
Jordan peterson is THE reason I’m a Christian today. If he needs more time than I do it’s probably because he’s 10x smarter than me. He’s also the person who introduced me to Mr. Pageau who then introduced me to orthodoxy. Then I saw an Orthodox Church and I had to pay a visit. First time in a church not for a funeral or wedding in 20+ years. Now I just need to work out my overnight work schedule so I can get back there every Sunday without staying up all night.
JP also helped me become Orthodox
17:02 I’m 44, the first time I used a computer was at 19, in college. I got my first smartphone in 2006 and my first iPhone in 2010. My mom typed my papers on a typewriter for me in middle and high school. My kids are being raised without “technology” at all. Farm life, real work, writing and reading. Life is so calm and natural for them!!
As a Methodist who was just awakened by our schism, I am yearning for doctrinal and lived orthodoxy. The mainline Protestant denominations began their drift in the late 19th century when they started competing to comfort an affluent audience.
Yes man, protestantism today is a "made in America" thing, reject modernism and become Catholic
Peterson on his phone in liturgy 😂 that was gold
The irony of him talking about orienting to the divine while ignoring the divine and orienting to his phone. I think Jordan struggles with sitting still and not overanalyzing everything
The Chasuble is called the Phelonion in Greek...for anyone curious.
Jonathan really flies high when talking about stories.He explains them so concisely and in a readily accessible manner.Go JP.
This must be the most interesting conversation I've witnessed in a long time. Jonathan appeared to feel really comfortable and was giving away profound insights like candy bars. Thank you both for this wonderfull and enriching experience!
The guest that I want to see but didn't expect to happen!!! Awesome collab!!!
HELL YEAH!!! dude, I have never seen Jonathan ever once get worked up and emotional about anything EVER, so when he finally got passionate about the bodily resurrection, that was amazing. like JP, you never know if this guy really believes anything actually happened or not, so that was awesome to see him do. Thank you for this video.
Orthodox priest here offering a clarification. "Old Calendarist" is a term used to describe schismatic groups that broke off from local Orthodox Churches that adopted the new calendar (essentially this is the Gregorian calendar that retains the Julian calculation of Pascha) in the early 20th century. Not all Orthodox Patriarchates adopted the new calendar, and those who remained on the Julian Calendar do not identify with or call themselves Old Calendarist, as this is a schismatic movement within other Orthodox Patriarchates not associated with them. This is a common misunderstanding for those who haven't looked closely in this issue. Old Calendarists aren't in communion with Orthodox Patriarchates who are still on the Julian Calendar (Russia, Serbia, Jerusalem, and others).
Amazing conversation gentlemen! It’s such a pleasure to listen to you two. Matt: anytime you have someone on to discuss fairytales it is AWESOME! Your interview with Nicholas Kotar was phenomenal in this way as well. I’ve always loved fairytales but was raised Protestant fundamentalist so I was never really allowed to read them. The most I was allowed was The Chronicles of Narnia, only because I wrote a paper defending it and pointing out to my mom that it was an obvious Christian allegory lol. Rediscovering them as an adult and hearing a deeper analysis of them has been a beautiful experience ❤
This is the best Pageau interview I've ever heard, thank you fellas!
Great conversation between two great men! Thank you to both of you!
Thank you Matt, great interview! Greetings from Argentina
Great interview! One of my favourites so far!
Wonderful seeing this, from an Orthodox viewer.
This was a beautiful and thought provoking conversation. Thank you guys. God bless.
Good conversation. I love the part when they talked about the most significant argument for atheists. Then the discussion led to the role of sufferings in our life. Then, the discussion went to “carrying the cross to follow Christ.” Excellent.
I like Pageau's artwork. I stumbled upon him a few years ago, i think i was looking up iconography or something. Yhen he started appearing with Jordan Peterson a ton, now he's on Pints. I just started the interview and I like how he didnt know answers to several questions and he responded humbly and confidently. I know he's super smart, but its always refreshing to see these rockstars are regular people like you and me.
As a convert to Orthodoxy ☦️, the faith has been such a light in my life and brought me closer to Christ. As a former Catholic working in the church, I felt no where near as close as I do now. The liturgy, mysticism, and emphasis on prayer has changed my life.
Wonderful interview! Brings back all the wonder I felt reading Jung, Campbell, Eliade. I’d love to see Pageau, Iain McGilchrist and Bishop Barron on the same stage!
31:34 No no no! The Old Calendarists are not the same as the Orthodox that follow the Julian calendar! The Old Calendarists are a sect of the Greek Orthodox that broke with the church to follow the Julian calendar...
Jonathan's explanation on interpretation of miracles stories is the best I've heard yet.
Thank you for this conversation! I have listened to Jonathon on the Exodus, Gospel, etc. series, but I didn't always understand his explanations. This was so helpful!
This has been one of the most interesting episodes I've watched on your channel.
Jonathan pageau is simply at another level, he's a genius and he has a way to see, read and process reality that it makes me feel so blessed to be able to hear him and his teachings.
I think Jonathan is a very profound thinker, but I enjoyed this conversation because it seemed to be more about just Jonathan as a guy.
15:43 that such an interesting little remark: "you know as a protestant you have to find a conversion moment"
This was an amazing conversation. Loved every bit of it.
You two are such nice guys. Such a nice hangout.
I enjoy the time i get to dive into anything Jonathan is saying. Such a relax and educational conversation
Love fairy tales in their original form! So good to hear the interpretations of them as an adult! Going to have to find his books!
Hadn’t heard of him before this interview!
Amazing episode, thanks fellas, God bless.
Love the interview. The last few minutes about Canadian politics. Trudeau just resigned! 🎉💯🔥
Yesss!!! Can’t wait!
Well lets face it, what Christian Church would accept someone who said they are not a sinner.
Cardinal Nichols of England, some years ago said that because of the scandals in the Church, some who had left years earlier returned citing that their apostasy was surely a part of the problem.
They hadn't forgotten they were a member of the mystical body of Christ.
Btw I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thanks to both of you.
There is nothing in the world like Orthodoxy
it is not of this world
@@jawokenn8766 😮 whoa
Amen to that
@@jawokenn8766 are you born again?
My God, this was enjoyable. Thanks guys.
You have no clue how long I’ve been waiting for this to happen
When Pageau recalls the names of Frenchmen, I devolve into a Norm MacDonald joke about the useful porpoise. "You could've been one of the greats..."
Jonathan Pageau is the only one who still gives me pause in my ongoing process towards becoming a Catholic (from the starting point of being non-religious). It seems like he may be on to something extremely important that I don't want to miss out on
You can be eastern Catholic
Really enjoyed listening to Jonathan Pageau. Excellent podcast.
I wish the section breaks each got their own video. these are such awesome discussions.
Loved the many insights I cleaned from this fabulous conversation
"Rigor is applied to ourselves." Exactly.
I actually didn’t find him through Peterson. I was YouTubing literally “ why I became Orthodox “ and found a short video of him. In my searching on Orthodoxy he kept coming up and then found out he traveled with Peterson and that was just a cherry on top.
3 hours of Jonathan Pageau and Matt Fradd? Hell yes!!
Man, I don’t watch all the episodes, but this has possibly been my favorite. Pageau makes these stories so beautiful and fascinating.
It’s funny, I just started binging Jonathan Pageau vids the last week, now this. Interesting timing..
2025 opening up with a banger!
Wonderful interview 👏🏻👏🏻
I'm so glad you two are meeting again. I have the feeling that the first time didn't go very well, the second time was far better, let's see how this one goes.
Happy new year!
So so so good! Thanks for this conversation
Love you guys both! But having lived in Russia, Israel and Jordan, I can say that just "soaking in the culture" 9:37 does not translate to a well catechized "flock." They 100% need catechism or Sunday school and all the rest.
Two of my favourite people having a wise discussion. More of this, please.
Lmao, this was funny. God bless Jonathan Pageau. I've learned a lot from this man.
Harsh and 19th century - I agree with your take on FSSP. I went there several years and also a bit of time in SSPX when I returned to the church in 2017 only to finally come to that conclusion. The 19th century art especially started to feel so cloyingly sentimental it shutdown my sense of wonder. I progressively kept having the CS Lewis book -"Till We Have Faces" come to mind. Until we have faces, until we have faces I kept thinking. Always popping in mind. I'm looking forward to Annie Crawfords lectures on that book that starts this coming Friday.
My favorite Catholic and Orthodox Christians in the same podcast!
Extremely difficult to enjoy this conversation when Matt interrupts all the time, especially when Jonathan is just in the middle of saying something interesting. Matt! Stoooooop!
I love Jonathan Pageau.
Been listening to him for a very long time.
I do think that Jordan Peterson was where I heard about Jonathan first.
I’m glad that Matt has him on his channel.
We are learning so much from these intellectuals out there who are in love with the Lord. It’s wonderful. But of course, worshiping the Lord is better than knowledge, so we have to remember never to.stop worshipping!
Great to have Jonathan!!
Female here who has turned from atheism to Catholicism.
2:12:44-2:20:00 is super vital, I feel, for a lot of skeptics and even doubtful believers who are wrestling with the all encompassing reality of Gods sacramental nature of the faith, and how he operates through the church in the material world. You can’t come to an acceptance of the reality of the Eucharist, if you don’t have eyes to see what’s literally in the story of the gospels. It’s so profound and even I can’t say I truly grasp its nature.
I like these guys a lot. Thanks guys.
ln 2025 l highly recommend everyone to read keezano’s book Your Life Your Game. It beautifully shows how connecting with God and focusing on your family can lead to spiritual growth, stronger relationships, and success in both your personal and professional life. This book truly changed my life… A must-read. God bless💗
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Polish fairy tales are amazing!! Long live Baba Jaga. 😂truly an awesome interview. Thank you both. ❤️🙏
I’ve heard a bit on how suffering may be the atheist’s best argument. I strongly feel it is one of the best refutations against atheism. Jonathan and Matt lay it out so well @ about 1:28:24. Well done!
Amazing conversation
Best episode ever!
Please pray for the Church in Quebec ⚜
An excellent conversation.