Hasn’t it been fun getting into this universe and then watching all your favorite people start talking to each other, I remember the days I prayed for Bishop Barron and Peterson to talk and now they’ve got a whole Gospels seminar
The fact that all you western so-called EO here defend that blasphemer & his pretentious pagan farytales & think that is orthodox is the proof of how bad the state of the Church in the west.
@EOShorts My point is no one has the right to call himself an EO when he cheers for a Gnostic pagan false prophet as Pegeau. Why aren't you outraged with the abomination he promotes?
I just spent the last 6 months taking care of a lady who was Russian orthodox she was raised that way. She had 13 brothers and sisters. She died right before Christmas but she was absolutely amazing and I gleaned so much from her ❤ just wanted to honor her.
Jonathan & the American "orthodox" celebrate according to the new calendar! I can't believe it!! "Some Orthodox"? No, all EO suppose to celebrate according to the Julian calendar. What a buffoon your Jonathan!))
@@adriandrozdek9769 The fact that you "EO" in the west think that the Gnostic Pegeau & his pagan farytales or blasphemous pretentious allegorizing is Orthodoxy is a proof of the low state of the Church in the west...
Kinda crazy how similar me an Pageau's story is. I am a Cajun from Louisiana. I have a strong Catholic family history. I was raised protestant, never baptized as a Catholic. Around 19-20 yrs I found and fell in love with Orthodoxy(never gave Catholicism a fair shake) and now i'm Roman Catholic. But I still love Orthodoxy. I came to the conclusion that Catholicism and Orthodox differences are so little, that it didn't make sense to remain separate from the Church that is rightfully mine. This is my church that was taken from me. I feel this is my people and this is my heritage. But Louisiana didn't abandon Catholicism like Quebec did.. It's still pretty strong here.
I’m different because I’m a Cajun that did decide to convert. There are significant differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. And I don’t think Cajuns abandoned Catholicism, but Catholicism abandoned us. My grandparents were beaten by Catholic nuns for speaking French. The Bishop of Lafayette was known for refusing to do funerals for people who committed suicide, but frequently took bribes and did funerals for suicide victims whose families paid enough. Annulments come by easy. Priests don’t commune mentally disabled people. And on the larger scale the Pachamama debacle proved that the Pope isn’t infallible with regards to faith and morals. So why even be Catholic? Some say that’s my heritage, but Saint Paul tells gentile converts to Christianity that Abraham is their ancestor. So I’m comfortable with Orthodoxy being the true religion of my ancestors because my ancestors are the Church Triumphant
@SirMemesAlot71 I'm not gonna deny the bad things you speak of, but are you really abandoning Cathaolicism because of corrupt hierarchs and sinful people? When you undoubtedly encounter corrupt and sinful Orthodox hierarchs, are you going to abandon them as well? That's not a good reason. I am aware of the bad things Catholicism has been a part of, at least the corruption. But I am determined to be a part of the solution, to fight for the Church, not abandon it. That's what commitment is.
@@SirMemesAlot71 Was Pope Francis kneeling before a statue of Our Lady of the Amazon, which has already been proven NOT to represent Pachamama, an ex cathedra statement? Even if the statue were an idol of Pachamama, he wouldn't have been infallibly defining dogma on faith or morals. Papal infallibility doesn't prevent the Pope from ever sinning or doing anything inadvisable. That part of your comment alone demonstrates that you were severely lacking in your understanding your Catholic faith. You are always welcome back in the Church! If you're going to remain Orthodox, I'd encourage you to at least comprehensively understand the faith you left.
@laurmhayes it's hard to understand Catholicism when it doesn't understand itself. It's been constantly changing for the last 1000 years and is not backwards compatible with itself through time.
I feel like being in the Orthodox church, the mere presence there during a liturgy, the mere reciting of the prayers from the Bible, because it's all biblical, just always brings me to tears. Standing and sacrificing yourself for Christ, embracing the goal of theosis, bettering yourself for your brethren, there's so much depth to that. It feels so much bigger than the self. I love Catholicism too because of Mary's deep and pervading love of her children, and bring that understanding of the rosary to my veneration of the Theotokos. This ultimate respect for God in Orthodoxy is so special. As an Orthodox person who regularly goes to Mass and Liturgy, I wish the church was united because I feel like the Orthodox faith misses out on closeness with Jesus through his mother in an emotional and familial way and Catholicism could gain that emotional humble sacrifice of the self. In the same way that I think that Catholicism could stress more the process of theosis and cleansing of sins through compassion, to see sin as a disease and not a legal act. If people experienced both sides, there is so much understanding and growth that can come with that.
I learned that cemeteries bury the dead facing East, specifically because of the resurrection, when they rise they’ll be facing eastward. I hope that’s true, I learned that when I buried my mother, memory eternal 🕯
@RussianLionboy if your calling people pagan that means you are... Christian? Most people who voted for trump wanted to stop wars. I don't think I would take criticism from a Christian who thirsts for blood and trolls for fury. Change your tactic and I would listen to what you have to say.
🇷🇺☦️Then why are you happy with a western Gnostic pagan like Jonathan? You like it when he promotes the demonic worldly farytales & impose that trash on Scriptures?
As an Orthodox myself (who is a Pageau fan) I've got to correct him on the "Old Calendarist" thing. There is a difference between churches using the Old Calendar and the "Old Calendarist" movement. Old Calendarist are a schismatic group that split away because they made an idol out of tradition. You can maybe think of them as the Orthodox version of Sedevacantists. The names get confusing. I myself prefer the Old Calendar but I'm not an "Old Calendarist" in the sense of being that schismatic group.
@Mike-tz4cm yeah. I thought I remembered him saying years ago he had been in rocor. Either way, a fair portion of the jurisdictions still use the old calender. I can't fathom he didn't know that.
Wow, I just started listening. Anyway, I found your comment very interesting and I have never heard of the old calendarists or anything relevant to the topic. Thank you! Gives me something to read about today. 👍😇
@@ExerciseForLifePls There is a lot to it, but probably the biggest reason came down to Pageau's descriptions of head and body as fractal realities. A functioning body has those two elements: head and body. Obviously Christ is head of every part of his body, but the Catholic Church is the only functioning body that also has a visible head at every epistemic and ontological level. Assuming you're familiar at all with Paguea's work, that's probably as short an answer as I could give.
@@LHWakefield I think you are forgetting that Christ is physically present in the Church, and that Bishops represent Christ, and at the top of that ladder is patriarchs. The pope is just one Bishop, in the early church the Bishop of rome didnt have universal jurisdiction. Each patriarch was that representation of the one head which is Christ.
Orthodox priest here offering a clarification. "Old Calendarist" is a term used to describe schismatic groups that broke off from local Orthodox Churches that adopted the new calendar (essentially this is the Gregorian calendar that retains the Julian calculation of Pascha) in the early 20th century. Not all Orthodox Patriarchates adopted the new calendar, and those who remained on the Julian Calendar do not identify with or call themselves Old Calendarist, as this is a schismatic movement within other Orthodox Patriarchates not associated with them. This is a common misunderstanding for those who haven't looked closely in this issue. Old Calendarists aren't in communion with Orthodox Patriarchates who are still on the Julian Calendar (Russia, Serbia, Jerusalem, and others).
31:34 No no no! The Old Calendarists are not the same as the Orthodox that follow the Julian calendar! The Old Calendarists are a sect of the Greek Orthodox that broke with the church to follow the Julian calendar...
Jordan peterson is THE reason I’m a Christian today. If he needs more time than I do it’s probably because he’s 10x smarter than me. He’s also the person who introduced me to Mr. Pageau who then introduced me to orthodoxy. Then I saw an Orthodox Church and I had to pay a visit. First time in a church not for a funeral or wedding in 20+ years. Now I just need to work out my overnight work schedule so I can get back there every Sunday without staying up all night.
Good conversation. I love the part when they talked about the most significant argument for atheists. Then the discussion led to the role of sufferings in our life. Then, the discussion went to “carrying the cross to follow Christ.” Excellent.
Wonderful interview! Brings back all the wonder I felt reading Jung, Campbell, Eliade. I’d love to see Pageau, Iain McGilchrist and Bishop Barron on the same stage!
Love you guys both! But having lived in Russia, Israel and Jordan, I can say that just "soaking in the culture" 9:37 does not translate to a well catechized "flock." They 100% need catechism or Sunday school and all the rest.
ln 2025 l highly recommend everyone to read keezano’s book Your Life Your Game. It beautifully shows how connecting with God and focusing on your family can lead to spiritual growth, stronger relationships, and success in both your personal and professional life. This book truly changed my life… A must-read. God bless💗
As a convert to Orthodoxy ☦️, the faith has been such a light in my life and brought me closer to Christ. As a former Catholic working in the church, I felt no where near as close as I do now. The liturgy, mysticism, and emphasis on prayer has changed my life.
I like Pageau's artwork. I stumbled upon him a few years ago, i think i was looking up iconography or something. Yhen he started appearing with Jordan Peterson a ton, now he's on Pints. I just started the interview and I like how he didnt know answers to several questions and he responded humbly and confidently. I know he's super smart, but its always refreshing to see these rockstars are regular people like you and me.
Well lets face it, what Christian Church would accept someone who said they are not a sinner. Cardinal Nichols of England, some years ago said that because of the scandals in the Church, some who had left years earlier returned citing that their apostasy was surely a part of the problem. They hadn't forgotten they were a member of the mystical body of Christ. Btw I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thanks to both of you.
Love fairy tales in their original form! So good to hear the interpretations of them as an adult! Going to have to find his books! Hadn’t heard of him before this interview!
Would really like to hear someone talk to pageau about apokatastasis. Especially considering his interest in maximus the confessor, who believed in apokatastasis.
As for the Calandar issue, there is a difference between "Old Calandar*ists*" and those who *use* the Old Calandar The Old Calandar*ists* see the use of the New Calandar as an issue that caused 99% of the Orthodox Church to fall away, as they believe anyone in communion with those who use the New Calandar are outside the Church, even if they themselves use the Old Calandar (for example the Moscow Patriarchate, which if menory serves uses Old Calandar, but is in communion with OCA, which uses New Calandar) You can draw a parallel with sedecavantists and old calandarists as the very bad side of "rigorism" which causes one to tear themselves away from the Church in favor of what they think is best, rather than what the Church is practicing
Emil Cioran is actually Romanian, but he got his citizenship removed by the communist regime. I would still consider that he was formed in the Romanian interbelic world, since he studied at the University of Bucharest and even teached philosophy for a year.
I’ve heard a bit on how suffering may be the atheist’s best argument. I strongly feel it is one of the best refutations against atheism. Jonathan and Matt lay it out so well @ about 1:28:24. Well done!
I'm so glad you two are meeting again. I have the feeling that the first time didn't go very well, the second time was far better, let's see how this one goes. Happy new year!
30:47 Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think OCA clergy are not allowed to commune at Greek churches because of the conflict between Moscow and Constantinople. Granted the issue of the OCA's autocephaly is very complicated (e.g. the Jerusalem patriarchate doesn't allow OCA clergy to serve, but do allow them to commune as clergy - speaking from experience). In any case the issue is complicated...
@@ocdchristian The OCA doesn't answer to Moscow. They concelebrate with the Greeks all the time. Even between Moscow and the EP, I've still seen them commune in each other's alters, just now concelebrate (for the time being)
17:19 - The internet wasn’t readily available until the mid 90s with AOL. I’m similar in age and I distinctly remember a time pre-internet and post-internet. Unless she comes a family of tech researchers that worked at a university or the military. I was 12 when I first used AOL dial-up.
Happy New Year! God bless you and yours! Great interview!....... Can you help me with something? Some time ago you had an interview with a Romanian orthodox priest. I have been trying to remember his name but I can not. Can you please help me? I would love to see the interview again.
Jonathan speaks about an orthodox synod around 2:56:00 Russians actually have their Synod. They really wanna have a pope and everything. They are not against the idea of centralization, on contrary. They just want the pope to sit in Moscow instead of Rome. They want a pope of their own for them and everybody.
My trouble in beliving God is the pain i felt when I felt lied to and the fear i have of becoming the person i was when i believed. I was raised Methodist. I was given religious stories I thought were literal. I asked many questions to the religious experts growing up and no one contradicted the literal interpretations of the stories I read and asked about. I turned the answers I was getting from experts into certainty. My certainty became a dogmatic self-righteousness and I was insufferable. I once told my atheist girlfriend "you don't know what love is" and felt righteous. Looking back now, this is a scary place. I escaped this hell, if you will, by learning the nature of knowledge from the likes of Popper, and Deutsch. When I hear explanations of God, like the ones in this podcast, they don't feel remotely like God to me. It feels more like the outcome of some process you can reason about. God to me, the one I was raised with, is a thing that you cannot know about, and cannot reason about, and that was the feature that differentiated him from what I learned within church, from what I learned outside of church. Perhaps there is room for a different understanding of God in the future, but I don't think that the vast majority of people that believe in God believes in one that makes any sense whatsoever. Maybe I'm just an idiot. Idk. I do take things literally, by default, so it is what it is.
Please consider joining our Locals community --> mattfradd.locals.com/support
Who else is here because they found Jonathan Pageau through Jordan Peterson? Love to both those men!
@@CedarRose7 Peterson to Pints to Pageau and here I am again at Pints
I also!
Two great Gents
Hasn’t it been fun getting into this universe and then watching all your favorite people start talking to each other, I remember the days I prayed for Bishop Barron and Peterson to talk and now they’ve got a whole Gospels seminar
My path was Peterson -> Pageau -> Pints
Jonathan Pageau is the man! God bless you both
@@RootsofOrthodoxy Yes, the pagan Gnostic man, along with his Postmodernist false prophet JP.
The fact that all you western so-called EO here defend that blasphemer & his pretentious pagan farytales & think that is orthodox is the proof of how bad the state of the Church in the west.
This is probably the most relaxed I've seen Jonathan in an interview, so great.
Give him more alcohol and cigars, apparently. He does often have this sort of low-level anxiety that you can feel through the screen.
As an orthodox Christian who loves Pints/Matt Fradd this is a nice new years gift!
Same!
@@EOShortsAnother westerner larping...God help us all...
@@RussianLionboy I don’t understand your comment 🥺
@EOShorts My point is no one has the right to call himself an EO when he cheers for a Gnostic pagan false prophet as Pegeau. Why aren't you outraged with the abomination he promotes?
@EOShorts My point is: if you are EO why aren't you outraged & instead cheer for that Gnostic pagan false prophet?
I just spent the last 6 months taking care of a lady who was Russian orthodox she was raised that way. She had 13 brothers and sisters. She died right before Christmas but she was absolutely amazing and I gleaned so much from her ❤ just wanted to honor her.
🥰😇😘
Glory to God! May her memory be eternal.
Jonathan played the most important role in my decision to get baptized in the Church. I will be forever grateful for this!
Jonathan & the American "orthodox" celebrate according to the new calendar! I can't believe it!! "Some Orthodox"? No, all EO suppose to celebrate according to the Julian calendar. What a buffoon your Jonathan!))
@@adriandrozdek9769 same 🥰
@@adriandrozdek9769 The fact that you "EO" in the west think that the Gnostic Pegeau & his pagan farytales or blasphemous pretentious allegorizing is Orthodoxy is a proof of the low state of the Church in the west...
The Brothers Pageau should be remembered in this time...
💯
In a fairytale like the Grimm brothers.
Bring on mah boy matthieu!
@@joshranowsky8083☦️Yes, the pagan trash that your Gnostic pseudo-orthodox promotes.
Getting Jonathan to talk for 3 hours. This has got to be the record. Love you gentlemen, good conversation. God bless.
As an Orthodox man with two kids and a wife, this conversation was absolutely brilliant. So deep in so many ways.
Thanks gentlemen.
Kinda crazy how similar me an Pageau's story is. I am a Cajun from Louisiana. I have a strong Catholic family history. I was raised protestant, never baptized as a Catholic. Around 19-20 yrs I found and fell in love with Orthodoxy(never gave Catholicism a fair shake) and now i'm Roman Catholic. But I still love Orthodoxy. I came to the conclusion that Catholicism and Orthodox differences are so little, that it didn't make sense to remain separate from the Church that is rightfully mine. This is my church that was taken from me. I feel this is my people and this is my heritage. But Louisiana didn't abandon Catholicism like Quebec did.. It's still pretty strong here.
I’m different because I’m a Cajun that did decide to convert. There are significant differences between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. And I don’t think Cajuns abandoned Catholicism, but Catholicism abandoned us. My grandparents were beaten by Catholic nuns for speaking French. The Bishop of Lafayette was known for refusing to do funerals for people who committed suicide, but frequently took bribes and did funerals for suicide victims whose families paid enough. Annulments come by easy. Priests don’t commune mentally disabled people.
And on the larger scale the Pachamama debacle proved that the Pope isn’t infallible with regards to faith and morals. So why even be Catholic? Some say that’s my heritage, but Saint Paul tells gentile converts to Christianity that Abraham is their ancestor. So I’m comfortable with Orthodoxy being the true religion of my ancestors because my ancestors are the Church Triumphant
@SirMemesAlot71
I'm not gonna deny the bad things you speak of, but are you really abandoning Cathaolicism because of corrupt hierarchs and sinful people? When you undoubtedly encounter corrupt and sinful Orthodox hierarchs, are you going to abandon them as well? That's not a good reason.
I am aware of the bad things Catholicism has been a part of, at least the corruption. But I am determined to be a part of the solution, to fight for the Church, not abandon it. That's what commitment is.
@@SirMemesAlot71 Was Pope Francis kneeling before a statue of Our Lady of the Amazon, which has already been proven NOT to represent Pachamama, an ex cathedra statement? Even if the statue were an idol of Pachamama, he wouldn't have been infallibly defining dogma on faith or morals. Papal infallibility doesn't prevent the Pope from ever sinning or doing anything inadvisable. That part of your comment alone demonstrates that you were severely lacking in your understanding your Catholic faith. You are always welcome back in the Church! If you're going to remain Orthodox, I'd encourage you to at least comprehensively understand the faith you left.
@laurmhayes it's hard to understand Catholicism when it doesn't understand itself. It's been constantly changing for the last 1000 years and is not backwards compatible with itself through time.
Jonathan Pageau, fine way to start the new year 🥂
@@DerekJFiedler Yes, with pagan farytales & pretentious Postmodernist blasphemies, yeah real "orthodox"...
I feel like being in the Orthodox church, the mere presence there during a liturgy, the mere reciting of the prayers from the Bible, because it's all biblical, just always brings me to tears. Standing and sacrificing yourself for Christ, embracing the goal of theosis, bettering yourself for your brethren, there's so much depth to that. It feels so much bigger than the self. I love Catholicism too because of Mary's deep and pervading love of her children, and bring that understanding of the rosary to my veneration of the Theotokos. This ultimate respect for God in Orthodoxy is so special. As an Orthodox person who regularly goes to Mass and Liturgy, I wish the church was united because I feel like the Orthodox faith misses out on closeness with Jesus through his mother in an emotional and familial way and Catholicism could gain that emotional humble sacrifice of the self. In the same way that I think that Catholicism could stress more the process of theosis and cleansing of sins through compassion, to see sin as a disease and not a legal act. If people experienced both sides, there is so much understanding and growth that can come with that.
I learned that cemeteries bury the dead facing East, specifically because of the resurrection, when they rise they’ll be facing eastward. I hope that’s true, I learned that when I buried my mother, memory eternal 🕯
"The children who were raised to get anything they want anytime they want, now they want meaning."
Powerful
Very clear and true statement. To drill down…now [some] want meaning.
This is the best I’ve ever heard Pageau articulate himself and symbolism. Matt seems to be a perfect fit to bring out the best in him.
@@Pally-Main Do you like his pathetic pretentious pagan blasphemous allegories as much as the clown Trump's nonsense?
@RussianLionboy if your calling people pagan that means you are... Christian?
Most people who voted for trump wanted to stop wars.
I don't think I would take criticism from a Christian who thirsts for blood and trolls for fury.
Change your tactic and I would listen to what you have to say.
Συγχαρητήρια
Greetings from Corinth 🇬🇷☦️
Χαίρετε η μάνα μου κορινθία. Καλή χρονιά από το καναδά🇨🇦☦️
🇷🇺☦️Then why are you happy with a western Gnostic pagan like Jonathan? You like it when he promotes the demonic worldly farytales & impose that trash on Scriptures?
@@1bonatsosYou like it when the fake "orthodox" Pegeau imposes the pagan farytales on our faith?
🇷🇺☦️Have you no shame cheering for a Gnostic pagan who spews heresy?
What a podcast-haven’t watched a podcast that was 3 hours in a long time. What a great conversation!
Love seeing Pageau all over. Definitely helped me understand Orthodoxy years ago and now I'm in the church! Bless this man. ☦
Glory to God
The way Jonathan thinks, talks, how he explaines the fairy tales and how it arches into our lifes it’s just excellent. Thank you!
As an Orthodox myself (who is a Pageau fan) I've got to correct him on the "Old Calendarist" thing. There is a difference between churches using the Old Calendar and the "Old Calendarist" movement. Old Calendarist are a schismatic group that split away because they made an idol out of tradition. You can maybe think of them as the Orthodox version of Sedevacantists. The names get confusing. I myself prefer the Old Calendar but I'm not an "Old Calendarist" in the sense of being that schismatic group.
@烏梨師斂 I think Pageau is under rocor. Which would put him in the old calender. I'd imagine he would've known that.
Irony
@@BarbaPaminoHe said in the video he attends an OCA parish
@Mike-tz4cm yeah. I thought I remembered him saying years ago he had been in rocor.
Either way, a fair portion of the jurisdictions still use the old calender. I can't fathom he didn't know that.
Wow, I just started listening. Anyway, I found your comment very interesting and I have never heard of the old calendarists or anything relevant to the topic. Thank you! Gives me something to read about today. 👍😇
Peterson on his phone in liturgy 😂 that was gold
I became Catholic largely due to Jonathan’s influence. Thank you for having him on!
Interesting, why Catholicism than John’s Orthodoxy then?
@@ExerciseForLifePls There is a lot to it, but probably the biggest reason came down to Pageau's descriptions of head and body as fractal realities. A functioning body has those two elements: head and body. Obviously Christ is head of every part of his body, but the Catholic Church is the only functioning body that also has a visible head at every epistemic and ontological level. Assuming you're familiar at all with Paguea's work, that's probably as short an answer as I could give.
@@LHWakefield I think you are forgetting that Christ is physically present in the Church, and that Bishops represent Christ, and at the top of that ladder is patriarchs. The pope is just one Bishop, in the early church the Bishop of rome didnt have universal jurisdiction. Each patriarch was that representation of the one head which is Christ.
@@aident.4165 no, I am very aware of His presence!
@@aident.4165 no, I’m very aware of His real presence!
Orthodox priest here offering a clarification. "Old Calendarist" is a term used to describe schismatic groups that broke off from local Orthodox Churches that adopted the new calendar (essentially this is the Gregorian calendar that retains the Julian calculation of Pascha) in the early 20th century. Not all Orthodox Patriarchates adopted the new calendar, and those who remained on the Julian Calendar do not identify with or call themselves Old Calendarist, as this is a schismatic movement within other Orthodox Patriarchates not associated with them. This is a common misunderstanding for those who haven't looked closely in this issue. Old Calendarists aren't in communion with Orthodox Patriarchates who are still on the Julian Calendar (Russia, Serbia, Jerusalem, and others).
The Chasuble is called the Phelonion in Greek...for anyone curious.
This is definitely one of my favorite PWA episodes ever. My goodness, just absolutely incredible. Thank you!
Jonathan and Matt has to be the best podcast combo ever. My two favorite TH-camrs.
31:34 No no no! The Old Calendarists are not the same as the Orthodox that follow the Julian calendar! The Old Calendarists are a sect of the Greek Orthodox that broke with the church to follow the Julian calendar...
15:43 that such an interesting little remark: "you know as a protestant you have to find a conversion moment"
The guest that I want to see but didn't expect to happen!!! Awesome collab!!!
As an Orthodox convert from Catholicism, I’m very happy you had Jonathan on the show! ☦️
@@randomjake1488 Sorry to break it to you but you are a convert to Gnostic Postmodernist new-age paganism not to Orthodoxy. Repent.
Jordan peterson is THE reason I’m a Christian today. If he needs more time than I do it’s probably because he’s 10x smarter than me. He’s also the person who introduced me to Mr. Pageau who then introduced me to orthodoxy. Then I saw an Orthodox Church and I had to pay a visit. First time in a church not for a funeral or wedding in 20+ years. Now I just need to work out my overnight work schedule so I can get back there every Sunday without staying up all night.
JP also helped me become Orthodox
Thank you Matt, great interview! Greetings from Argentina
Jonathan really flies high when talking about stories.He explains them so concisely and in a readily accessible manner.Go JP.
Wonderful seeing this, from an Orthodox viewer.
Great conversation between two great men! Thank you to both of you!
There is nothing in the world like Orthodoxy
it is not of this world
@@jawokenn8766 😮 whoa
Amen to that
@@jawokenn8766 are you born again?
This is the best Pageau interview I've ever heard, thank you fellas!
Jonathan's explanation on interpretation of miracles stories is the best I've heard yet.
Good conversation. I love the part when they talked about the most significant argument for atheists. Then the discussion led to the role of sufferings in our life. Then, the discussion went to “carrying the cross to follow Christ.” Excellent.
Wonderful interview! Brings back all the wonder I felt reading Jung, Campbell, Eliade. I’d love to see Pageau, Iain McGilchrist and Bishop Barron on the same stage!
Love you guys both! But having lived in Russia, Israel and Jordan, I can say that just "soaking in the culture" 9:37 does not translate to a well catechized "flock." They 100% need catechism or Sunday school and all the rest.
3 hours of Jonathan Pageau and Matt Fradd? Hell yes!!
This was a beautiful and thought provoking conversation. Thank you guys. God bless.
Yesss!!! Can’t wait!
ln 2025 l highly recommend everyone to read keezano’s book Your Life Your Game. It beautifully shows how connecting with God and focusing on your family can lead to spiritual growth, stronger relationships, and success in both your personal and professional life. This book truly changed my life… A must-read. God bless💗
⚠️ Warning Scam Message ⚠️
2025 opening up with a banger!
My God, this was enjoyable. Thanks guys.
An interesting conversation for sure. Agreed, People need to calm down about JBP. God knows the heart of all and wants to gather all his children
As a convert to Orthodoxy ☦️, the faith has been such a light in my life and brought me closer to Christ. As a former Catholic working in the church, I felt no where near as close as I do now. The liturgy, mysticism, and emphasis on prayer has changed my life.
I like Pageau's artwork. I stumbled upon him a few years ago, i think i was looking up iconography or something. Yhen he started appearing with Jordan Peterson a ton, now he's on Pints. I just started the interview and I like how he didnt know answers to several questions and he responded humbly and confidently. I know he's super smart, but its always refreshing to see these rockstars are regular people like you and me.
I think Jonathan is a very profound thinker, but I enjoyed this conversation because it seemed to be more about just Jonathan as a guy.
Well lets face it, what Christian Church would accept someone who said they are not a sinner.
Cardinal Nichols of England, some years ago said that because of the scandals in the Church, some who had left years earlier returned citing that their apostasy was surely a part of the problem.
They hadn't forgotten they were a member of the mystical body of Christ.
Btw I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thanks to both of you.
It’s funny, I just started binging Jonathan Pageau vids the last week, now this. Interesting timing..
Jonathan with no filter - LOVE it
You have no clue how long I’ve been waiting for this to happen
So so so good! Thanks for this conversation
Great to have Jonathan!!
"Rigor is applied to ourselves." Exactly.
Amazing conversation
Polish fairy tales are amazing!! Long live Baba Jaga. 😂truly an awesome interview. Thank you both. ❤️🙏
Just a note. All Orthodox Christians celebrate Pascha on the same date, except in Finland.
Lmao, this was funny. God bless Jonathan Pageau. I've learned a lot from this man.
Love fairy tales in their original form! So good to hear the interpretations of them as an adult! Going to have to find his books!
Hadn’t heard of him before this interview!
Would really like to hear someone talk to pageau about apokatastasis. Especially considering his interest in maximus the confessor, who believed in apokatastasis.
Yes, this needs to be discussed seriously.
As for the Calandar issue, there is a difference between "Old Calandar*ists*" and those who *use* the Old Calandar
The Old Calandar*ists* see the use of the New Calandar as an issue that caused 99% of the Orthodox Church to fall away, as they believe anyone in communion with those who use the New Calandar are outside the Church, even if they themselves use the Old Calandar (for example the Moscow Patriarchate, which if menory serves uses Old Calandar, but is in communion with OCA, which uses New Calandar)
You can draw a parallel with sedecavantists and old calandarists as the very bad side of "rigorism" which causes one to tear themselves away from the Church in favor of what they think is best, rather than what the Church is practicing
Emil Cioran is actually Romanian, but he got his citizenship removed by the communist regime. I would still consider that he was formed in the Romanian interbelic world, since he studied at the University of Bucharest and even teached philosophy for a year.
I’ve heard a bit on how suffering may be the atheist’s best argument. I strongly feel it is one of the best refutations against atheism. Jonathan and Matt lay it out so well @ about 1:28:24. Well done!
I'm so glad you two are meeting again. I have the feeling that the first time didn't go very well, the second time was far better, let's see how this one goes.
Happy new year!
I love Jonathan Pageau! He has the saintly spirit that they were talking about around 27:00.
He's a special guy for sure.
I like these guys a lot. Thanks guys.
I love this part! 2:43:32 Also, shouod be mentioned about thr healing of the bleeding woman. Christ is the perfect man for the young and old woman.
Yes! I didn't realize this until "The Chosen" episode connected the stories in my brain
30:47 Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think OCA clergy are not allowed to commune at Greek churches because of the conflict between Moscow and Constantinople. Granted the issue of the OCA's autocephaly is very complicated (e.g. the Jerusalem patriarchate doesn't allow OCA clergy to serve, but do allow them to commune as clergy - speaking from experience). In any case the issue is complicated...
I love Jonathan but he's out of his depths when talking about non-theological elements of the church, and I think he kinda knows that...
@@ocdchristian The OCA doesn't answer to Moscow. They concelebrate with the Greeks all the time. Even between Moscow and the EP, I've still seen them commune in each other's alters, just now concelebrate (for the time being)
@@Kdriggs15Chooses not to answer to or is not required to answer to?
@@Kdriggs15 yes! That was my point.
@@jeremias-serus the OCA has been autocephalous ("self-headed" i.e. self-governing) since 1970.
God bless Jonathan Pageau ☦️
@pintswithaquinas , Thank you for the wonderful interview. One question: Which Boethius book is referenced around 1h 20 min? Many, many thanks! 🙏
Great video! Thank you
Thanks
I would have never thought Jonathan was 49. Dude looks way younger.
17:19 - The internet wasn’t readily available until the mid 90s with AOL. I’m similar in age and I distinctly remember a time pre-internet and post-internet. Unless she comes a family of tech researchers that worked at a university or the military. I was 12 when I first used AOL dial-up.
"Mind your own business and work on your salvation"
Is there any better advice?
I want a carving of Pageau in the style of the icons that says that
Calling it now, the next DW project he didn't want to spoil is revelations
Happy New Year! God bless you and yours! Great interview!....... Can you help me with something? Some time ago you had an interview with a Romanian orthodox priest. I have been trying to remember his name but I can not. Can you please help me? I would love to see the interview again.
wow, 3 hours, so looking forward to it!
An excellent conversation.
Nice one 👌
I love Jonathan
When is the Paul VanderKlay interview?
Our parish has also exploded since Covid
Female here who has turned from atheism to Catholicism.
I'm convinced that Mat Frad is a pajama boy.
What does that mean? Pajama boy.
Brilliant thinker
lol the L hand handles the scotch and the R hand handles the aqua. What is the symbolism of that JP? Thank you MF and team! Great one!
Matt I’m really hoping you got Jonathan’s version of Snow White, very beautiful book
The anxiety I felt this episode watching Jonathon not ash that cigar...
@@EthanLafferty you're not supposed to ash a cigar, the ash is meant to fall off naturally
Is there a way to order pints with Aquinas cigars online?
Dr Martin Shaw 👍👍👍
Pints with Aquinas ❌❌
Cigars with Matt✅✅
Jonathan speaks about an orthodox synod around 2:56:00
Russians actually have their Synod. They really wanna have a pope and everything. They are not against the idea of centralization, on contrary. They just want the pope to sit in Moscow instead of Rome. They want a pope of their own for them and everybody.
My trouble in beliving God is the pain i felt when I felt lied to and the fear i have of becoming the person i was when i believed.
I was raised Methodist. I was given religious stories I thought were literal. I asked many questions to the religious experts growing up and no one contradicted the literal interpretations of the stories I read and asked about. I turned the answers I was getting from experts into certainty. My certainty became a dogmatic self-righteousness and I was insufferable. I once told my atheist girlfriend "you don't know what love is" and felt righteous. Looking back now, this is a scary place.
I escaped this hell, if you will, by learning the nature of knowledge from the likes of Popper, and Deutsch. When I hear explanations of God, like the ones in this podcast, they don't feel remotely like God to me. It feels more like the outcome of some process you can reason about. God to me, the one I was raised with, is a thing that you cannot know about, and cannot reason about, and that was the feature that differentiated him from what I learned within church, from what I learned outside of church. Perhaps there is room for a different understanding of God in the future, but I don't think that the vast majority of people that believe in God believes in one that makes any sense whatsoever.
Maybe I'm just an idiot. Idk. I do take things literally, by default, so it is what it is.
2:48:40 - LOL, so Jordan Peterson is going to make Apocalypse seminar now.