Thanks Tyler for the review and feedback. You are correct, most GameBall users will use the top of the ball and push downward. What also helps is using both the ring and middle finger on the ball. The GameBall Pro (once we can get it out) will have a larger ball and be a right handed design.
Thanks for replying! I was nervous to show the video because you've been sooo kind and generous through interactions; just made me want to give a glowing review. What I can say to those seeing this comment: I can definitely vouch for the company's character / customer service. Strikes me as in-tune with their users. Excited to see Gameball Pro's design!
@@lefnire Considering this device is already $150. I'm gonna wait for the pro and see what happens. I have the Slimblade pro and I'm not as love with it as you are.
I have been using the Slimblade for a couple of years and initially made a mistake. When the cursor started sticking, I carefully washed and degreased the ball. And after that, the ball/cursor began to stick even more. The trick is that the ball should be greased. If cursor starts sticking, you have to clean the bearings and rub the ball on your nose and forehead. Then it starts spinning like an well oiled wheel.
@@YuryKhristich I'm not a lubricant expert, just speculating. But I do know that dry lubricants are real. Some of them are powder, and I don't believe "falling off" is an issue. It would have to be 1. non toxic. 2. safe for electronics and 3. suitable for plastic. because I think the ball is plastic. The most common dry lube is graphite but I don't think it's electronic safe or necessarily non toxic. I feel like some kind of silicone or Teflon would be the best bet. I'm going to try it. I dont plan on coating the ball, just the 3 static contact points. I'm curious to see if it makes any difference.
I’ve been using a thumball for over 30 years. No RSI. However I don’t use it with the tip of my thumb in an arc position, I use it with the bottom of my thumb in a flat position.
I've seen a lot of this sentiment in the comments, focusing on only using the thumb pad. I plan to give it a shot in coming weeks. Will take some brain-rewiring not to use muscle memory.
After about 3 months I use the tenting feet exactly like the video, one of the feet on the right half has been broken down, it is a nice way to add tenting to the MD770, but I think I will go with the Sofle keyboard next time, glove80 is too hard to get in VietNam and I think the actual price when it get here is expensive also, Sofle board is built locally here by some vendor, thank you for the tenting part on this video, really bring a nice typing experience to me. Hope to see more video from you.
Nice review. I wasn't aware of the static vs dynamic barings in the different products. I just did the finger ball challenge between the Slimblade, Expert, and Huge. IMHO, which one works for you will depend on your particular ergonomic needs (anatomy of your arms and hands and how you sit) and use case. For instance I settled on the Kensington Expert for my home office use where I work in VR from an Eckorness Stressless recliner. It works with the length of my arms and how my table sits. The Experts and Slimblade can be used ambidexterously.I find the Huge design nice and honestly plan on pairing it with the Expert as needed. I see the Huge as being nice for gaming as well as applications benefiting from the many customizable buttons. The materials in the Elecom product arent as nice as Kensington however the design is excellent and is serviceable with the baring swap.FYI you could pay an electronics repair shop to do the baring upgrade if not wanting the DIY trouble. Finally the Slimblade is excellent too. But it is better suited for a more traditional sitting at a desk setup. I love the design too though I find the chording and button press nicer on the Expert. Long story short, I'm keeping all of em. I love them big balls! And you will too😂
Really good insights around different body positions for different mice. I thought about (and still think about) Huge for gaming as well. And holy crap, why didn't I think of paying a computer repair shop for the bearings swap?? Wow. Now that you mentioned that, I think I'll call and see if they can build split keyboards too, DIY is what's held me back from experimenting more. Glad you replied, got me noodling now
For years I've used Kensington mice, all the way back to the first Kensington mouse (back when they were made in NYC). Every mouse save for that first one had the parts wear out and break down. The first one had some serious tracking issues (it was only 400 dpi), two buttons, and the rollers... well, look at how old analog mice use to track, and you can see the problem. Still, rollers are the best. It give you a lot of control. I'm looking at the Ploopy Adapt mouse. In fact, I'm going to buy it today. It has a high polling rate "1000", and up to 12,000 dpi. It also uses rollers instead of a ceramic, steel, or ruby ball to roll the ball on. It gives a lot of control. I'm starting to develop RSI on my right wrist from using my Logitech hero mouse. I need to make a change.
I'm using the HUGE and I like it. I've never faced any issues with it. I've used it for at least 3 years now. I like the wrist rest for the HUGE. I like the Slimblade. I had one. It was a great until the left main button failed. I think the Slimblade pro might be good as long as it is using the same omron switches as the Expert. The Ploopy is basically an open source or enthusiasts remake of the Microsoft Explorer - which many touted as the best trackball. The HUGE pays homage to the Explorer in some form, but has more buttons, functionality and a built in cushion wrist rest.
You haven't experienced stiction on HUGE? That's the biggest gripe I see, leading people to replace the bearings. You've definitely seen your share of trackballs, so I trust your take on the stiction comparison.
@@lefnire One of the things that I do is remove the ball and clean the bearings. I do this once a week. I've got cats and so cleaning is pretty much a full time thing.
I am the guy these people aim their product at. I have been gaming on a trackball exclusively for over 30 years. You don't want the larger heavy ball. You can't roll it quickly enough. You need to use your thumb and pinky for left and right click by just rocking your hand. You DO ABSOLUTELY need to rest your wrist high and below the ball and on appropriate surface like a gel pad etc to protect tendons and keep blood flow. I have used every trackball available except the Gameball. The Kensington Orbit is currently my only recommendation for gaming. It is the hands down gold standard. However, I would like to try the gameball. My biggest issue is it has a very high cost, and if the button placement and wrist placement isn't perfect then it's junk to me. It would be better if it had no wrist rest so I can just stack my own but I will try this thing eventually.
Just as a small note on the information in the video, the polling rate of both the Slimblade and Slimblade Pro is 125hz. The pro used to support 250hz over wireless receiver and 500hz over wired early on (the wired one I can’t confirm. I just saw it somewhere on the internet), but due to instability in tracking, Kensington released a firmware update to just make it 125hz across the board. Which is a bit of a shame that they couldn’t get that fixed. Confirmed it with my Slimblade pro here.
Interesting info! 125hz isn't the end of the world, but man let's hope they bring back 250/500 in a future update. That's a huge selling point for Pro - though I guess I understand why they didn't advertise it now, maybe they were already experiencing some challenges with it on launch.
Kensington's Pro Fit Ergo Vertical Trackball is legitimately the most ergonomic trackball ever; you literally can just rest your hand vertically near it and everything is well within your reach with almost no wrist or hand movement. Also if you aren't using thumb AND index finger on thumb trackballs in a loose "OK" position you're doing it wrong.
I'm on the same trackball journey as you and pretty much on the same path. I have Slimblade and it is my main daily driver both for productivity as well as gaming. I manage with it just fine in pretty much any type games, including FPS. I'm not hardcore by any stretch of imagination but it serves me just fine. I also have the gameball track ball as well and it sits in my closet collecting dust. I don't like it's ergonomics and its smaller ball. I had L-track back in the day, before it was acquired by x-keys, I don't know it's current quality level but it was pretty good. The only downside was it's scroll wheel placement which was abysmal for the trackball. I have Ploopy and I also bought this new Chienese trackball on Amazon that is the same shape, about 30-40. That one from Amazon had the same level of smoothness as with the gameball at a fraction of the price, but I wasn't a fan of it's button arrangement, and most importantly, it's sensor swan's squared, which mean that the X / Y travel wasn't the same. I like Ploopy and a big fan of his Nano, but it not having any buttons is not really usable for me currently without a split keyboard with dedicated mouse buttons on it. So far Slimblade wins on everything, ergonomics, precision, quality of build, ball size and the scrolling.
Yeah our journeys definitely align. Next I wanna try Ploopy Adept, similar to SlimBlade but with the gaming bells and whistles (DPI, dynamic bearings).
I own a Kensington Trackball Expert over the slimblade because I wanted a better scroll. I also got XKeys L-Trac. Both of those are very nice. The XKeys probably is a bit smoother moving and more accurate, the Expert having more buttons, connectivity (Bluetooth or wired) and better configuration software.
L-Trac has dynamic bearings & laser sensor; will definitely be smoother. But yeah, I need them buttons. I had a hard time with Expert's scroll-wheel; I like the concept, but I find the actual scroll-wheel a bit rough (grainy, with a sort of latency before it kicks in). Have you not had any trouble with it?
@@lefnire I use the L-Track more now. I heard in reviews the slimblade’s (maybe only the pro) rotation of the ball sometimes fails to scroll so I avoided it. The Expert’s wheel is decent, not butter smooth but it shouldn’t make you feel uneasy. I prefer its positioning.
The position of the bearings impacts how much the ball will bounce around (spacing etc), other than the weight and type of bearing. If only there was an X-Keys-L-Track-inspired design that has more than 4 built-in buttons, slanted sides like the Slimblade (with slightly wider left/right click buttons), closer scrollwheel, was wireless and had dynamic (moving) roller bearings by default. Oh and that it wouldn't be so high that it requires a wrist rest. Ideally, since the ball is so huge, having the trackball entirely dropped (countersunk) into the desk would be comfortable (like a deep removable tray in a kitchen) or else use a standing desk and raise the keyboard up to compensate. All of this to preserve the size of the ball and the security of the plastic ring..., but that's mostly done by the position of the bearings AFAIK in the L-Trac anyway.
Nice vid mate. The Gameball's weird scrolling method made it terrible for me, but otherwise the ball felt good. Couldn't get used to the shape for similar reasons to what you said, really requires resting on it. Even if you remap it to drag scroll, the ring gets in the way and gives you random inputs , it's a real dealbreaker
@@GreyDeathVaccine The wired Slim Blade can be bought for a quite r4easonable price as they are older. The ball cursor feature alone can transform your life.
Thanks for the video and discussion on your trackball experiences. I found it interesting and informative. If I may, I would like to share my experience with a thumb-based trackball (Logitech Ergo M575). I have been using versions of this mouse for many years now for work and productivity (still use a mouse for gaming). When this mouse gives out, I may upgrade to the more vertical oriented version you showed in your video. You brushed past thumb-based trackballs very quickly dismissing them because of the risk of repetitive motion injury due to movement of the thumb. I am not a heavy trackball user for CAD, photo editing, or the like. I would say I am a moderate user. I also have no knowledge of thumb versus finger anatomy and what movements may be best for hand health. Intuitively, I feel that the thumb is made more for moving in multiple directions in the way a thumb-based trackball works. If a person is using a finger trackball and not hovering, that would cause a lot of lateral finger movement, which fingers are not built to do. The thumb is great at moving laterally and vertically.. I find that my "grip" on the mouse is a semi-hover. Similar to typing on a keyboard, I do not rest my wrists on the desk or the mouse. My mouse hand lightly touches the trackball mouse near the base of the pinky just to give me an anchor point. My finger tips lightly rest on the buttons and upper shell of the mouse. My thumb lightly rests on the trackball. For larger movements, I can engage my forearm, and for finer movements, I can engage just my thumb. These techniques assure I never have too much tension in any of my body parts. I also play guitar, so I am very aware of tension in my body for finger and hand movements. I hope this is helpful to someone. Let me know your thoughts!
Hey Tyler, thanks for the recommendations. I am currently using a Logitech Trackball, and I do often catch myself palming the mouse as you mentioned. Additionally, I noticed you have a tenting mechanism on your Mistel split. Did you built it yourself, or could you share a link to where you purchased it? I have a Mistel and I am looking for bigger tenting
Best trackball video I've seen so far. Something extra is actually being said besides "this is ball, this ball is small. it's good for your wrist". I'm still looking for scrolling experience. Any chance to record the movement & screen? Wondering how the different solutions perform.
Thanks a million! I'll see about recording scrolling at some point. I haven't found any scrolling better or worse across mice, except the Orbit Fusion and Expert. I really don't like their scroll rings, they're grindy and jerky. I like the concept of a scroll ring, I just don't think they executed the hardware well. Past that these mice are quite similar scrolling experiences, but with SlimBlade & GameBall's unusual methodology (which grows on you) being more ergonomic (avoiding thumb-scroll). None of these mice have smooth scroll, they're all in increments (you know what I mean; like ticks vs Mac-style). There's one exception that I haven't had a chance to try: Ploopy Adept. Evidently their firmware lets you map a button to toggle ball scrolling, so you can scroll all axes and smoothly. I'm eager to try that.
@@lefnire > but with SlimBlade & GameBall's unusual methodology GameBall has the touch sensitive ring, and SlimBlade ring is touch sensitive as well? That's one of the confusions I've had. People say that on SlimBlade you "rotate" the ball to scroll, but that doesn't make much sense. What is detecting that? If you rotate the ball, without touching the ring, it probably won't scroll?
@@kbudaj exactly. GameBall is touch, so you "wipe" your finger across the ring. SlimBlade is indeed ball-rotation. I don't know how it works either, there's something at the firmware that detects a static-axis rotation (rather than free rotation) and flips into scroll-mode. Whatever they have going on works really well, since there's no latency between when that thing picks up the static-axis rotation, and when it starts scrolling; it's immediate. I actually love SlimeBlade's scrolling style, but it takes getting used to. What you do is place your middle finger on the top of the ball to stabilize it onto a static axis, and you wipe your ring finger across the ball to rotate it. Click my channel, I have another video on more trackballs - there's a part in there where I describe SlimBlade scrolling. The weird thing is that I personally find the SlimBlade's scrolling more responsive / less latency than GameBall's; which I didn't expect, since GameBall wouldn't need that extra axis check. But I've chalked it up to something I'm not doing correctly with the GameBall; maybe I need to configure it via X-Mouse in a certain way.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. My Slimblade Pro just started squeaking most notably when using the scrolling feature and I wiped it down with 99% alcohol thinking that it was dirty. It became even more sticky and squeaky.
When it squeaks, it's building stiction from gunk on the bearings (dead skin, dust, debris, etc). You should remove the ball and wipe out the gunk off each bearing (just use your finger - or you can use a little brush / cloth). Many say oil is better, rather than worse, for static bearings; so you never need to clean the ball, just remove the gunk, and don't use product. You might be cooked, having used alcohol on it. I'm not sure, so I'll let another chime in. Try the gunk removal and see if it fixes.
@@lefnire I think alchohol was so good at cleaning it stripped the factory lubrication. I kept reading and people have said skin oil from the face works. I tried it and funny enough it worked and its feels like its new from the box again. I'm ordering lanolin oil which others have also suggested as a more hygienic solution and safer for human contact than silicon lubricant for my treadmill. Thanks for replying right away.
I have a question. The mouse that i use for gaming and everything is the Logitech g502 and i really like it. But i'm interested in trackballs. Here is the catch. I don't know if i want thumb trackball or not. And i know i will be beginner in that. So what trackball would you recommend?
Really? Is this from personal experience with the Slim Blade? The presenter said his RSI disappeared. Notice how the ball and the button plates have no left-right orientation? As the presenter said, you can easily use the Slim Blade on either the right or left side. Being able to actuate the buttons many different ways with different fingers allows avoiding 100% repetitive motion. Buttons on the side of a trackball mean having to squeeze your fingers and hand inwards. That is not a natural finger hand movement and causes tightness. One downside is that my cat finds it easy to push the buttons also. The kitty has no RSI. The ball being the scroll wheel is a miraculous experience. Again, many different finger movements can be used. Of course, all finger trackballs give the option of using different finger and hand movements. Ands what does RSI stand for?
You call the elecoms ergonomic, but they really only properly fit very small hands. They are large in footprint, but look at the side profile of those with a real hand for scale. The curves do not match up to a normal-size hand at all. I have the huge, and it absolutely requires hover-hand. Also, I think bearing friction on the huge is overblown. I got the "upgrade" bearings and then never saw a reason to add them. Could be that large balls are more forgiving with bearing friction due to torque and ability to distribute contaminants?
I purchased both of these because I was looking to replace my Kinsington Expert trackball with a trackball with higher DPI for FPS games. I was disappointed in both of them. As far as ball movement, they are both great. They both fail in scrolling. In most FPS the scroll is used to switch weapons and tools. The SlimBlade will not scroll and move at the same time. The GameBall scroll is way up at the top of the trackball and almost out of reach. I ended up sending them both back. :( Still looking for a good gaming trackball, has anyone found something better?
Ploopy Classic would fit your bill except that the scroll wheel's polling rate is 8hz, really bad for rapid scrolling. I'd wait for the next GameBall (Pro or 2.0)
You've made some great points. Would this Kensington SlimBlade be suitable for use when in an armchair?? Trying to use a mouse and glass mat is horrible and gives me shoulder ache.
Personally I think any trackball would help you as long as you have a place on your desk that the mouse is easily reachable while you are at rest. All movement would be unconnected to your shoulder I believe
I'm telling you. I've gotten push-back in my videos about hover. I've tried wrist-rest, no rest-rest, and hover; and hover has definitely resulted in the least pain. It also allows better precision, since moving one part of your hand doesn't impact another part (eg clicking doesn't move the ball).
If you take an external touchpad and tilt it like you have done with your keyboard, isn't that the best of bouth worlds? You have the right angle and you use multiple fingers equally, the pressing and stuff
@@AlexandrosG many love that setup, I get a lot of comments on track pads. I just don't like them as much personally - the raised ball feels more knuckle-ergonomic to me, and I have better precision and macro motion with a ball. But definitely a good solution if it works for you, like it does for many
The real issue is... what external trackpads actually exist other than random stuff from China and Apple's trackpad. In order to get the Apple to work on say Windows, which, fml if you have to use Windows, you have to install random drivers from github. Meaning these aren't real solutions for real people in the real world.
I'm not a gamer, so I'll share my perspective on work and productivity using macOS. I usually use the Apple Trackpad on the left and the Logi MX Ergo Trackball for my dominant right hand, either in the middle with a split keyboard or on the right when I use the Apple keyboard. I recently injured my right shoulder so I attempted to use the Kensington Slim Blade on the left but found I was less productive than with the Apple Trackpad! I think I was so accustomed to being able to zoom and scroll by pinching and swiping. When the shoulder heals, I'll try the SlimBlade on the right and middle and see if I like it better than the MX Ergo for my dominant cursor control.
Just curious, does the gameball have static or dynamic bearings? I’ve heard it’s static from some and dynamic from others and I can’t see on their website where it says if it uses dynamic or static, thanks!
@@dabubbaboobookinsz8204 I've understood it to be dynamic, but when I look at them they seem static. Possibly the little bearings roll within a chassis. If not, then they are simply superb material of bearings that they are much smoother than Kensington / Elecom
I also had a Mistel keyboard too, but I really like the Glove 80, unfortunately they don't sell it in Viet Nam so it's hard to get. Will you get one of them? Would love to see how you feel about that keyboard.
So I didn't really dive deep into reviews before I purchased my first trackball and I went with the Elecom deft pro. I did this because according to a few reddit comments, it was highly recommended, plus it was on sale for me so hey why not. Finding out now that the bearings are awful makes me kinda sad, but I am going to stick with this thing for a while yet before I decide to invest in a better mouse. Since I am using this primarily for gaming, I think I will go with the GameBall. Is the difference in smoothness between the elecom deft pro and the slimblade/gameball and better really that noticeable? I am feeling a lot of "stiction" now that I know what that is, I was hoping it would just decrease the longer I used the mouse. Is this not the case? What are some things I can do to decrease the stiction? Also, thank you very much for pointing out that you have to clean gunk out of the static bearings. I had not done so yet and it was nasty.
In terms of stiction, it goes: [S-tier: GameBall / Ploopy / L-Trac] > [A-tier: Kensington] > [B-tier: Elecom]. Your best bet with the Deft Pro is to replace the bearings. There are TH-cam videos describing how to do it; it's cheap, and medium-difficulty. TMK once that's done, the new stiction goodness is upper A-tier.
@@lefnire thanks for the response. I went ahead and bought the game ball as I really enjoy using trackball and I think a symmetrical one like that will be much better than an ergonomic slanted one like the elecom. I'll keep the elecom around to use at work though, I do like all the extra buttons and proper scroll wheel
I love how we've trained consumers to believe they're making investments when engaging in consumerism. It's not an investment bro, it's consumer electronics.
@@TimJohnson-x1o I get your point I think, but I'm not using "invest" literally here, I simply meant I was going to use the elecom until I decided what I want in a better trackball. I did indeed end up buying the gameball and it is much better.
Not that I know of. I use my SlimBlade around 10-12hrs / day, for 2.5 years now, and there's no sign of bearing wear. And that's for a static-bearings device; the dynamic bearings devices (GameBall, Ploopy, etc) will be even better. Either way, the material they use are like.. gemstones, or synthetic versions of them, and are intended not to degrade. I think something will go wrong with the device (eg the switches or electrical issues) long before bearings break down.
Right, I didn't give it justice, but I mention it at 16:00. Will buy one when I can. EDIT: oh I just realized you were answering the question I pose there. Thanks for answering!
GameBall has a "virtual" scroll wheel around the ball. It's a surface which senses your finger swiping around it (no physical scroll wheel). L-Trac has a physical scroll wheel.
so true with the elecom. i got one. great design and all...not useable. always jumps when moving because of the grip. watched a video on how to replace the bearings, but not sure if a do it. it's gathering dust
At 3:38 you show the real way to use a trackball, hand tilted and fingers slightly bent about 5 degrees and the fingers loosely together. Its strange but when anyone is discussing trackballs this is where their hands end up automatically. Then when they talk about using them and demonstrating them, they get into the most uncomfortable positions imaginable and try to use their index finger. Not the way. To go back to your position at 3:38. Firstly the trackball should be on the top as you say. Secondly do not use the index finger to move the ball. Do not put the hand flat on the trackball, I don't hover over the ball either. Tilt the hand so in a sitting position you are looking at the side of your hand, rest the outside heel of the hand behind the whole module, the Kensington expert has a soft pad for this. This is the swivel point for use, and as the angles and motions are very small the odds of RSI are a no chance. Rest your three fingers lightly on the ball, slightly to the right of the ball (for RH bods)Use the middle finger with the first and third fingers lightly on the ball the fist joint of the middle finger just past the centre of the ball. Now move the screen cursor use the middle finger as the driving finger. right click is done with the little finger or the fourth finger. Left click with the forefinger. Try it out see how comfortable it is.
I've used the slimblade pro since it came out and I really regret it. It's not the actual device that's the problem, it's the software. It's dog turd quality.
Lmao, try that big square mess in a shooter with your 'hover hand' theory, then use the gameball. Once you've done that tell me which one is clearly better, and why its the gameball.
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Thanks Tyler for the review and feedback. You are correct, most GameBall users will use the top of the ball and push downward. What also helps is using both the ring and middle finger on the ball. The GameBall Pro (once we can get it out) will have a larger ball and be a right handed design.
Thanks for replying! I was nervous to show the video because you've been sooo kind and generous through interactions; just made me want to give a glowing review. What I can say to those seeing this comment: I can definitely vouch for the company's character / customer service. Strikes me as in-tune with their users. Excited to see Gameball Pro's design!
@@lefnire Considering this device is already $150. I'm gonna wait for the pro and see what happens. I have the Slimblade pro and I'm not as love with it as you are.
I have been using the Slimblade for a couple of years and initially made a mistake. When the cursor started sticking, I carefully washed and degreased the ball. And after that, the ball/cursor began to stick even more. The trick is that the ball should be greased. If cursor starts sticking, you have to clean the bearings and rub the ball on your nose and forehead. Then it starts spinning like an well oiled wheel.
Why not try some fancy dried/powder lubricant that is both non toxic and safe for electronics.
@@TimJohnson-x1o I have no such lubricant, hmm... at hand. :D Theoretically, a powder would easily fall off the ball. It needs to try, though.
@@YuryKhristich I'm not a lubricant expert, just speculating. But I do know that dry lubricants are real. Some of them are powder, and I don't believe "falling off" is an issue. It would have to be 1. non toxic. 2. safe for electronics and 3. suitable for plastic. because I think the ball is plastic. The most common dry lube is graphite but I don't think it's electronic safe or necessarily non toxic. I feel like some kind of silicone or Teflon would be the best bet. I'm going to try it. I dont plan on coating the ball, just the 3 static contact points. I'm curious to see if it makes any difference.
Kensington actually recommends you use some Vaseline, rub it in your hands and then rub the ball to coat it. That should make it smoother.
I’ve been using a thumball for over 30 years. No RSI. However I don’t use it with the tip of my thumb in an arc position, I use it with the bottom of my thumb in a flat position.
I've seen a lot of this sentiment in the comments, focusing on only using the thumb pad. I plan to give it a shot in coming weeks. Will take some brain-rewiring not to use muscle memory.
would you mind posting a video? I can't wrap my head around this for vertical movement
Thank you for explaining your thoughts and experience, it's very insightful.
great vid! Ive got a on & off rsi so was looking at track balls. your suggestions helped a ton 👍
explained so much detail!! thank you
After about 3 months I use the tenting feet exactly like the video, one of the feet on the right half has been broken down, it is a nice way to add tenting to the MD770, but I think I will go with the Sofle keyboard next time, glove80 is too hard to get in VietNam and I think the actual price when it get here is expensive also, Sofle board is built locally here by some vendor, thank you for the tenting part on this video, really bring a nice typing experience to me. Hope to see more video from you.
Nice review. I wasn't aware of the static vs dynamic barings in the different products. I just did the finger ball challenge between the Slimblade, Expert, and Huge. IMHO, which one works for you will depend on your particular ergonomic needs (anatomy of your arms and hands and how you sit) and use case. For instance I settled on the Kensington Expert for my home office use where I work in VR from an Eckorness Stressless recliner. It works with the length of my arms and how my table sits. The Experts and Slimblade can be used ambidexterously.I find the Huge design nice and honestly plan on pairing it with the Expert as needed. I see the Huge as being nice for gaming as well as applications benefiting from the many customizable buttons. The materials in the Elecom product arent as nice as Kensington however the design is excellent and is serviceable with the baring swap.FYI you could pay an electronics repair shop to do the baring upgrade if not wanting the DIY trouble. Finally the Slimblade is excellent too. But it is better suited for a more traditional sitting at a desk setup. I love the design too though I find the chording and button press nicer on the Expert. Long story short, I'm keeping all of em. I love them big balls! And you will too😂
Really good insights around different body positions for different mice. I thought about (and still think about) Huge for gaming as well. And holy crap, why didn't I think of paying a computer repair shop for the bearings swap?? Wow. Now that you mentioned that, I think I'll call and see if they can build split keyboards too, DIY is what's held me back from experimenting more. Glad you replied, got me noodling now
For years I've used Kensington mice, all the way back to the first Kensington mouse (back when they were made in NYC). Every mouse save for that first one had the parts wear out and break down. The first one had some serious tracking issues (it was only 400 dpi), two buttons, and the rollers... well, look at how old analog mice use to track, and you can see the problem. Still, rollers are the best. It give you a lot of control. I'm looking at the Ploopy Adapt mouse. In fact, I'm going to buy it today. It has a high polling rate "1000", and up to 12,000 dpi. It also uses rollers instead of a ceramic, steel, or ruby ball to roll the ball on. It gives a lot of control. I'm starting to develop RSI on my right wrist from using my Logitech hero mouse. I need to make a change.
I'm using the HUGE and I like it. I've never faced any issues with it. I've used it for at least 3 years now. I like the wrist rest for the HUGE.
I like the Slimblade. I had one. It was a great until the left main button failed. I think the Slimblade pro might be good as long as it is using the same omron switches as the Expert.
The Ploopy is basically an open source or enthusiasts remake of the Microsoft Explorer - which many touted as the best trackball. The HUGE pays homage to the Explorer in some form, but has more buttons, functionality and a built in cushion wrist rest.
You haven't experienced stiction on HUGE? That's the biggest gripe I see, leading people to replace the bearings. You've definitely seen your share of trackballs, so I trust your take on the stiction comparison.
@@lefnire One of the things that I do is remove the ball and clean the bearings. I do this once a week. I've got cats and so cleaning is pretty much a full time thing.
I am the guy these people aim their product at. I have been gaming on a trackball exclusively for over 30 years. You don't want the larger heavy ball. You can't roll it quickly enough. You need to use your thumb and pinky for left and right click by just rocking your hand. You DO ABSOLUTELY need to rest your wrist high and below the ball and on appropriate surface like a gel pad etc to protect tendons and keep blood flow. I have used every trackball available except the Gameball. The Kensington Orbit is currently my only recommendation for gaming. It is the hands down gold standard. However, I would like to try the gameball. My biggest issue is it has a very high cost, and if the button placement and wrist placement isn't perfect then it's junk to me. It would be better if it had no wrist rest so I can just stack my own but I will try this thing eventually.
Just as a small note on the information in the video, the polling rate of both the Slimblade and Slimblade Pro is 125hz. The pro used to support 250hz over wireless receiver and 500hz over wired early on (the wired one I can’t confirm. I just saw it somewhere on the internet), but due to instability in tracking, Kensington released a firmware update to just make it 125hz across the board. Which is a bit of a shame that they couldn’t get that fixed. Confirmed it with my Slimblade pro here.
Interesting info! 125hz isn't the end of the world, but man let's hope they bring back 250/500 in a future update. That's a huge selling point for Pro - though I guess I understand why they didn't advertise it now, maybe they were already experiencing some challenges with it on launch.
That's utterly pathetic on their part.
Kensington's Pro Fit Ergo Vertical Trackball is legitimately the most ergonomic trackball ever; you literally can just rest your hand vertically near it and everything is well within your reach with almost no wrist or hand movement. Also if you aren't using thumb AND index finger on thumb trackballs in a loose "OK" position you're doing it wrong.
I'm on the same trackball journey as you and pretty much on the same path. I have Slimblade and it is my main daily driver both for productivity as well as gaming. I manage with it just fine in pretty much any type games, including FPS. I'm not hardcore by any stretch of imagination but it serves me just fine. I also have the gameball track ball as well and it sits in my closet collecting dust. I don't like it's ergonomics and its smaller ball. I had L-track back in the day, before it was acquired by x-keys, I don't know it's current quality level but it was pretty good. The only downside was it's scroll wheel placement which was abysmal for the trackball.
I have Ploopy and I also bought this new Chienese trackball on Amazon that is the same shape, about 30-40. That one from Amazon had the same level of smoothness as with the gameball at a fraction of the price, but I wasn't a fan of it's button arrangement, and most importantly, it's sensor swan's squared, which mean that the X / Y travel wasn't the same.
I like Ploopy and a big fan of his Nano, but it not having any buttons is not really usable for me currently without a split keyboard with dedicated mouse buttons on it.
So far Slimblade wins on everything, ergonomics, precision, quality of build, ball size and the scrolling.
Yeah our journeys definitely align. Next I wanna try Ploopy Adept, similar to SlimBlade but with the gaming bells and whistles (DPI, dynamic bearings).
I own a Kensington Trackball Expert over the slimblade because I wanted a better scroll. I also got XKeys L-Trac. Both of those are very nice. The XKeys probably is a bit smoother moving and more accurate, the Expert having more buttons, connectivity (Bluetooth or wired) and better configuration software.
L-Trac has dynamic bearings & laser sensor; will definitely be smoother. But yeah, I need them buttons. I had a hard time with Expert's scroll-wheel; I like the concept, but I find the actual scroll-wheel a bit rough (grainy, with a sort of latency before it kicks in). Have you not had any trouble with it?
@@lefnire I use the L-Track more now. I heard in reviews the slimblade’s (maybe only the pro) rotation of the ball sometimes fails to scroll so I avoided it. The Expert’s wheel is decent, not butter smooth but it shouldn’t make you feel uneasy. I prefer its positioning.
The position of the bearings impacts how much the ball will bounce around (spacing etc), other than the weight and type of bearing. If only there was an X-Keys-L-Track-inspired design that has more than 4 built-in buttons, slanted sides like the Slimblade (with slightly wider left/right click buttons), closer scrollwheel, was wireless and had dynamic (moving) roller bearings by default.
Oh and that it wouldn't be so high that it requires a wrist rest. Ideally, since the ball is so huge, having the trackball entirely dropped (countersunk) into the desk would be comfortable (like a deep removable tray in a kitchen) or else use a standing desk and raise the keyboard up to compensate. All of this to preserve the size of the ball and the security of the plastic ring..., but that's mostly done by the position of the bearings AFAIK in the L-Trac anyway.
Nice vid mate. The Gameball's weird scrolling method made it terrible for me, but otherwise the ball felt good. Couldn't get used to the shape for similar reasons to what you said, really requires resting on it. Even if you remap it to drag scroll, the ring gets in the way and gives you random inputs , it's a real dealbreaker
surprised I haven't found someone concentrating on the innovative method of scrolling with the new trackball...
I personally hate it. I always have to unbind it entirely in every game because I touch it sometimes by accident.
@@xIxHaZexIx
talking about the trackball generally or the scrolling function
Perfect video to watch high Lmao I'm invested
Have you ever used a trackball maaaaaaan? No for real!
“Hover hand” is literally the worst
I'd like to hear your arguments. I've never owned a trackball and would like to buy one soon.
right, why would i want to just hold my arm in the air 8+ hours a day lol
You're right. It can cause carpel tunnel syndrome pretty quickly.
@@GreyDeathVaccine The wired Slim Blade can be bought for a quite r4easonable price as they are older.
The ball cursor feature alone can transform your life.
Thanks for the video and discussion on your trackball experiences. I found it interesting and informative. If I may, I would like to share my experience with a thumb-based trackball (Logitech Ergo M575). I have been using versions of this mouse for many years now for work and productivity (still use a mouse for gaming). When this mouse gives out, I may upgrade to the more vertical oriented version you showed in your video.
You brushed past thumb-based trackballs very quickly dismissing them because of the risk of repetitive motion injury due to movement of the thumb. I am not a heavy trackball user for CAD, photo editing, or the like. I would say I am a moderate user. I also have no knowledge of thumb versus finger anatomy and what movements may be best for hand health. Intuitively, I feel that the thumb is made more for moving in multiple directions in the way a thumb-based trackball works.
If a person is using a finger trackball and not hovering, that would cause a lot of lateral finger movement, which fingers are not built to do. The thumb is great at moving laterally and vertically..
I find that my "grip" on the mouse is a semi-hover. Similar to typing on a keyboard, I do not rest my wrists on the desk or the mouse. My mouse hand lightly touches the trackball mouse near the base of the pinky just to give me an anchor point. My finger tips lightly rest on the buttons and upper shell of the mouse. My thumb lightly rests on the trackball. For larger movements, I can engage my forearm, and for finer movements, I can engage just my thumb. These techniques assure I never have too much tension in any of my body parts. I also play guitar, so I am very aware of tension in my body for finger and hand movements.
I hope this is helpful to someone. Let me know your thoughts!
Hey Tyler, thanks for the recommendations. I am currently using a Logitech Trackball, and I do often catch myself palming the mouse as you mentioned. Additionally, I noticed you have a tenting mechanism on your Mistel split. Did you built it yourself, or could you share a link to where you purchased it? I have a Mistel and I am looking for bigger tenting
Team Mistel! Here's my tenting solution www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/10jtaf3/cheap_kick_stands_to_tent_keyboards/
Best trackball video I've seen so far. Something extra is actually being said besides "this is ball, this ball is small. it's good for your wrist".
I'm still looking for scrolling experience. Any chance to record the movement & screen? Wondering how the different solutions perform.
Thanks a million! I'll see about recording scrolling at some point. I haven't found any scrolling better or worse across mice, except the Orbit Fusion and Expert. I really don't like their scroll rings, they're grindy and jerky. I like the concept of a scroll ring, I just don't think they executed the hardware well. Past that these mice are quite similar scrolling experiences, but with SlimBlade & GameBall's unusual methodology (which grows on you) being more ergonomic (avoiding thumb-scroll). None of these mice have smooth scroll, they're all in increments (you know what I mean; like ticks vs Mac-style). There's one exception that I haven't had a chance to try: Ploopy Adept. Evidently their firmware lets you map a button to toggle ball scrolling, so you can scroll all axes and smoothly. I'm eager to try that.
@@lefnire
> but with SlimBlade & GameBall's unusual methodology
GameBall has the touch sensitive ring, and SlimBlade ring is touch sensitive as well? That's one of the confusions I've had. People say that on SlimBlade you "rotate" the ball to scroll, but that doesn't make much sense. What is detecting that? If you rotate the ball, without touching the ring, it probably won't scroll?
Seems that your other video is answering my question. 😃
@@kbudaj exactly. GameBall is touch, so you "wipe" your finger across the ring. SlimBlade is indeed ball-rotation. I don't know how it works either, there's something at the firmware that detects a static-axis rotation (rather than free rotation) and flips into scroll-mode. Whatever they have going on works really well, since there's no latency between when that thing picks up the static-axis rotation, and when it starts scrolling; it's immediate. I actually love SlimeBlade's scrolling style, but it takes getting used to. What you do is place your middle finger on the top of the ball to stabilize it onto a static axis, and you wipe your ring finger across the ball to rotate it. Click my channel, I have another video on more trackballs - there's a part in there where I describe SlimBlade scrolling. The weird thing is that I personally find the SlimBlade's scrolling more responsive / less latency than GameBall's; which I didn't expect, since GameBall wouldn't need that extra axis check. But I've chalked it up to something I'm not doing correctly with the GameBall; maybe I need to configure it via X-Mouse in a certain way.
@@kbudaj ok good you found it
I want a bowling ball sized trackball so I can cosplay as Saron
SlimBlade is the largest. 55,". I want a proper bowling ball
Any suggestions would be appreciated. My Slimblade Pro just started squeaking most notably when using the scrolling feature and I wiped it down with 99% alcohol thinking that it was dirty. It became even more sticky and squeaky.
When it squeaks, it's building stiction from gunk on the bearings (dead skin, dust, debris, etc). You should remove the ball and wipe out the gunk off each bearing (just use your finger - or you can use a little brush / cloth). Many say oil is better, rather than worse, for static bearings; so you never need to clean the ball, just remove the gunk, and don't use product. You might be cooked, having used alcohol on it. I'm not sure, so I'll let another chime in. Try the gunk removal and see if it fixes.
@@lefnire I think alchohol was so good at cleaning it stripped the factory lubrication. I kept reading and people have said skin oil from the face works. I tried it and funny enough it worked and its feels like its new from the box again. I'm ordering lanolin oil which others have also suggested as a more hygienic solution and safer for human contact than silicon lubricant for my treadmill. Thanks for replying right away.
I have a question. The mouse that i use for gaming and everything is the Logitech g502 and i really like it. But i'm interested in trackballs. Here is the catch. I don't know if i want thumb trackball or not. And i know i will be beginner in that. So what trackball would you recommend?
Would love to see some videos on the MTE shape you find with the Nulea M505
Alright that's it, enough people mentioning Nulea, I'm gonna buy one and review!
Yeah budddaayyy@@lefnire
by definition, something that is ambidextrous can't be ergonomic.
@@laughingvampire7555 Ploopy Adept is the way
Really? Is this from personal experience with the Slim Blade?
The presenter said his RSI disappeared.
Notice how the ball and the button plates have no left-right orientation? As the presenter said, you can easily use the Slim Blade on either the right or left side.
Being able to actuate the buttons many different ways with different fingers allows avoiding 100% repetitive motion.
Buttons on the side of a trackball mean having to squeeze your fingers and hand inwards. That is not a natural finger hand movement and causes tightness.
One downside is that my cat finds it easy to push the buttons also. The kitty has no RSI.
The ball being the scroll wheel is a miraculous experience. Again, many different finger movements can be used.
Of course, all finger trackballs give the option of using different finger and hand movements.
Ands what does RSI stand for?
You call the elecoms ergonomic, but they really only properly fit very small hands. They are large in footprint, but look at the side profile of those with a real hand for scale. The curves do not match up to a normal-size hand at all. I have the huge, and it absolutely requires hover-hand. Also, I think bearing friction on the huge is overblown. I got the "upgrade" bearings and then never saw a reason to add them. Could be that large balls are more forgiving with bearing friction due to torque and ability to distribute contaminants?
I purchased both of these because I was looking to replace my Kinsington Expert trackball with a trackball with higher DPI for FPS games. I was disappointed in both of them. As far as ball movement, they are both great. They both fail in scrolling. In most FPS the scroll is used to switch weapons and tools. The SlimBlade will not scroll and move at the same time. The GameBall scroll is way up at the top of the trackball and almost out of reach. I ended up sending them both back. :( Still looking for a good gaming trackball, has anyone found something better?
Ploopy Classic would fit your bill except that the scroll wheel's polling rate is 8hz, really bad for rapid scrolling. I'd wait for the next GameBall (Pro or 2.0)
You've made some great points. Would this Kensington SlimBlade be suitable for use when in an armchair?? Trying to use a mouse and glass mat is horrible and gives me shoulder ache.
Personally I think any trackball would help you as long as you have a place on your desk that the mouse is easily reachable while you are at rest. All movement would be unconnected to your shoulder I believe
I've been living wrong for decades. Somehow, hovering hands never occurred to me.
I'm telling you. I've gotten push-back in my videos about hover. I've tried wrist-rest, no rest-rest, and hover; and hover has definitely resulted in the least pain. It also allows better precision, since moving one part of your hand doesn't impact another part (eg clicking doesn't move the ball).
If you take an external touchpad and tilt it like you have done with your keyboard, isn't that the best of bouth worlds? You have the right angle and you use multiple fingers equally, the pressing and stuff
@@AlexandrosG many love that setup, I get a lot of comments on track pads. I just don't like them as much personally - the raised ball feels more knuckle-ergonomic to me, and I have better precision and macro motion with a ball. But definitely a good solution if it works for you, like it does for many
The real issue is... what external trackpads actually exist other than random stuff from China and Apple's trackpad. In order to get the Apple to work on say Windows, which, fml if you have to use Windows, you have to install random drivers from github. Meaning these aren't real solutions for real people in the real world.
I'm not a gamer, so I'll share my perspective on work and productivity using macOS. I usually use the Apple Trackpad on the left and the Logi MX Ergo Trackball for my dominant right hand, either in the middle with a split keyboard or on the right when I use the Apple keyboard. I recently injured my right shoulder so I attempted to use the Kensington Slim Blade on the left but found I was less productive than with the Apple Trackpad! I think I was so accustomed to being able to zoom and scroll by pinching and swiping. When the shoulder heals, I'll try the SlimBlade on the right and middle and see if I like it better than the MX Ergo for my dominant cursor control.
Just curious, does the gameball have static or dynamic bearings? I’ve heard it’s static from some and dynamic from others and I can’t see on their website where it says if it uses dynamic or static, thanks!
@@dabubbaboobookinsz8204 I've understood it to be dynamic, but when I look at them they seem static. Possibly the little bearings roll within a chassis. If not, then they are simply superb material of bearings that they are much smoother than Kensington / Elecom
If they're not willing to say, then you know for sure it's static. thats the way marketing works.
I also had a Mistel keyboard too, but I really like the Glove 80, unfortunately they don't sell it in Viet Nam so it's hard to get. Will you get one of them? Would love to see how you feel about that keyboard.
I'll definitely get one. Gotta save up though
So I didn't really dive deep into reviews before I purchased my first trackball and I went with the Elecom deft pro. I did this because according to a few reddit comments, it was highly recommended, plus it was on sale for me so hey why not. Finding out now that the bearings are awful makes me kinda sad, but I am going to stick with this thing for a while yet before I decide to invest in a better mouse. Since I am using this primarily for gaming, I think I will go with the GameBall. Is the difference in smoothness between the elecom deft pro and the slimblade/gameball and better really that noticeable? I am feeling a lot of "stiction" now that I know what that is, I was hoping it would just decrease the longer I used the mouse. Is this not the case? What are some things I can do to decrease the stiction? Also, thank you very much for pointing out that you have to clean gunk out of the static bearings. I had not done so yet and it was nasty.
In terms of stiction, it goes: [S-tier: GameBall / Ploopy / L-Trac] > [A-tier: Kensington] > [B-tier: Elecom]. Your best bet with the Deft Pro is to replace the bearings. There are TH-cam videos describing how to do it; it's cheap, and medium-difficulty. TMK once that's done, the new stiction goodness is upper A-tier.
@@lefnire thanks for the response. I went ahead and bought the game ball as I really enjoy using trackball and I think a symmetrical one like that will be much better than an ergonomic slanted one like the elecom. I'll keep the elecom around to use at work though, I do like all the extra buttons and proper scroll wheel
I love how we've trained consumers to believe they're making investments when engaging in consumerism. It's not an investment bro, it's consumer electronics.
@@TimJohnson-x1o I get your point I think, but I'm not using "invest" literally here, I simply meant I was going to use the elecom until I decided what I want in a better trackball. I did indeed end up buying the gameball and it is much better.
is the materal of the bearing eventually wear out? if yes, how fast does it wear out? great video!
Not that I know of. I use my SlimBlade around 10-12hrs / day, for 2.5 years now, and there's no sign of bearing wear. And that's for a static-bearings device; the dynamic bearings devices (GameBall, Ploopy, etc) will be even better. Either way, the material they use are like.. gemstones, or synthetic versions of them, and are intended not to degrade. I think something will go wrong with the device (eg the switches or electrical issues) long before bearings break down.
@@lefnire thank you for your reply!!
All of Ploopy’s trackballs are optical and use the real bearings
Right, I didn't give it justice, but I mention it at 16:00. Will buy one when I can. EDIT: oh I just realized you were answering the question I pose there. Thanks for answering!
Do the gameball and l-trac have scroll wheels?
GameBall has a "virtual" scroll wheel around the ball. It's a surface which senses your finger swiping around it (no physical scroll wheel). L-Trac has a physical scroll wheel.
so true with the elecom. i got one. great design and all...not useable. always jumps when moving because of the grip. watched a video on how to replace the bearings, but not sure if a do it. it's gathering dust
At 3:38 you show the real way to use a trackball, hand tilted and fingers slightly bent about 5 degrees and the fingers loosely together. Its strange but when anyone is discussing trackballs this is where their hands end up automatically. Then when they talk about using them and demonstrating them, they get into the most uncomfortable positions imaginable and try to use their index finger. Not the way.
To go back to your position at 3:38. Firstly the trackball should be on the top as you say. Secondly do not use the index finger to move the ball. Do not put the hand flat on the trackball, I don't hover over the ball either. Tilt the hand so in a sitting position you are looking at the side of your hand, rest the outside heel of the hand behind the whole module, the Kensington expert has a soft pad for this. This is the swivel point for use, and as the angles and motions are very small the odds of RSI are a no chance. Rest your three fingers lightly on the ball, slightly to the right of the ball (for RH bods)Use the middle finger with the first and third fingers lightly on the ball the fist joint of the middle finger just past the centre of the ball. Now move the screen cursor use the middle finger as the driving finger. right click is done with the little finger or the fourth finger. Left click with the forefinger.
Try it out see how comfortable it is.
I've used the slimblade pro since it came out and I really regret it. It's not the actual device that's the problem, it's the software. It's dog turd quality.
@@lordofthe6string ploppy Adept with Via is the best
Lmao, try that big square mess in a shooter with your 'hover hand' theory, then use the gameball. Once you've done that tell me which one is clearly better, and why its the gameball.