I wouldn't say it took 10 years for someone to figure this out, because this strategy relies on reworked mechanics. There used be no such things as mission trees, epirus used to not exist, Naples would never get independence, etc. I am impressed with the strategy, but there is no way anyone making strategies even a few years ago, would have been able to come up with this.
So, when the Emperor Heraclius threatened to move the capitol to Carthage during the last Roman-Persian War, to motivate the Constantinopolitan nobles to contribute more to his campaign . . . he really should have gone ahead and done it. Honestly, that might not even be a meme, giving up on recovering the East leaves a stronger but still worn out Persia the only target for the Rashidun Caliphate when it erupts out of Arabia. Ideally the Byzantines can sweep in after they grind each other down for a decade.
When you culture switch to Tunisian, the duration will be fixed to 1494, but with byz CCR of 25% + possible other bonuses later, you can always conquest instead of reconquest them later (or have Otto in the opposite side of a war in the 50 first years to reset to 0 the duration)
"basically no rng" Meanwhile my game: >Naples is released 3 times early in the game when i was still taking Arta. >Ottomans attacking early in the game me despite being allied to Serbia and the Papal state >Tunis being allied to the ottomans It's a cool start and all but from what ive seen tunis is often allied with the ottomans, when i watched the video i was wondering why it never occurred me to attack Tunis and now i remembered why.
I gotta say, most of the things you emphasized to happen *"100% percent of the time", and "Literally always" has failed to happen for me the last several ames. x) I've had shit luck with especially the Maghreb region, with Castille not doing anything against granada for 30 years. Tunis allying the Mamluks. So on and so forth. But I do want to see the potential of this strat, soi I'll keep trying!
I am sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you as it did several times for me. Maybe fighting Fezzan would be an Alternative to break annoying Tunis alliances
@@thestudentYT That's what I had to resort to in the end. But even they had an unreasonable amount of allies. And Muscovy and Crimea abandoned me when Otto attacked. But, I'll give it a few more goes. It does sound fun to hoist the purple skull and crossbones. :)
I think I thought of a correct order for what Italian formables to go with as milian that allows the most options for religion with it working within the mission tree. The first should be Tuscany (the free diplomat is very valuable considering it comes with prestige decay reduction. It also has a few other missions that can help a little, you also normally can get access to Tuscan culture fairly quick which makes it easier to culture shift into). Second should be either Sardinia-piedmont or two sicilies (it depends on a few things. If you are staying Catholic or don't yet own any of Naples directly. Then you go form Sardinia-piedmont and get your admin efficiency but don't forget your free missionary strength mission (the mission says it will fire an event, though keep in mind that the mission reward is determined by the religion your nation is following which can make it optimal to stay Catholic depending on when you complete the mission). In the event you don't own all of Italy (not counting rome) then you have to take the new ideas from Sardinia-piedmont and you can't get much of an optimal situation where you have the ability to chose protestant as an example. As for why two sicilies is viable. You get rewards that include stuff such as reform progress and legitimacy (if your a monarchy it's worth considering) but the main focus is on a permanent tolerance of the true Faith bonus and the conquest of Antioch giving a reward from a mission. The issue with the tolerance of the true Faith bonus is it requires being a tier 4 or higher defender of the Faith while having very high power projection but after that you are free to stop being the defender of the Faith if you don't plan to stay Catholic which is why it's a valuable second formable in Italy, for obvious reasons I don't think I need to mention a third formable as there is only the last one remaining and Italy)
For such plans I'd think diplomatic then admin and then religious ideas would be best (diplomatic for the Warscore cost reduction. Improve relations. And the reputation in addition to the increased relation limit. Admin to capitalize on the ccr of Italian ideas. The promote culture cost reduction. And the stability cost reduction. Religious is in case you stayed a Christian nation and want to convert people faster, Through the tolerance of the true Faith and the cb don't hurt either)
i just double checked on the wiki. it seems i was mistaken about a few things. as savoy/Sardinia-piedmont the religion mission seems to give all the bonuses but switches depending on your religion. which means it is arguably the first formable Millan should take. also the mission for taking over Antioch involves the same for Jerusalem but you also get 50 pap points (i guess spend them before converting to another religion if you plan to do so), and the mission for the diplomat requires around 90 or something prestige and the one before that can be completed as protestant when you get 100 church power (overall, it's a bit easier to fulfill some of those missions requirements than i thought but some of them are still a problem in certain situations)
Tried this strat. Allied with Serbia, Trebizond and the Pope upon attacking allyless Epirus. Muscovy was allied to my rival Moldova so they didnt like me. So far okay though. Naples gets released in January 1445 or so, bad luck cause my Epirus war was still going on. Luckily, Naples didnt get any allies by the time I finished. I declare on Naples, promise land to the pope and the war goes fine. Stupidly enough, two days before I started the war, Moldova became a Polish vassal and Muscovy flipped to friendly. I forgot to ally them. Biggest mistake ever. Also, I could have allied Georgia in addition. "Well, do it after the Naples war" I think - almost done with the war, was just about to make peace when the Ottomans declare war on Athens......Of course the Pope abandons me, Trebizond immediately joins someone elses war and is useless and doesnt even draw Ottoman attention.....That was probably one of the most disastrous wars I have ever fought in EU4 besides my league war with Protestant Sweden where I was outnumbered 4 to 1 but somehow miracolous managed to eventually turn it into a win after I was already at -50 warscore. After a 5 or 6 year war with the Ottomans that left my and their manpower crippled and me having the worst economy ever and desperately fighting defensive battles with my mercs, I manage to sign a white peace. I could have beat them if I wasnt about to go bankrupt. One month after I finished the war, unsieged Naples from Rebels - I go bankrupt. Great. And I am bankrupt and was still losing two ducats a month on basically nothing. I am gonna start again lo, this run is over
I love this strategy, I'm going to have to try it out! Was it any more difficult to remove the debuff estate privileges by holding out on fighting the Ottomans and Venice/Genoa?
I didn't remove the Ship thing at all until 1517 and all the others I removed via events and decisions... Just be aware on having enough allies so that Ottos won't attack you
Lol! That's a nice strat. =D I'm also trying something funny at the moment. I'm going for TTM, but plan to switch into Delhi, then Mughals, then convert to Buddhism, migrate my capital to the New World (otherwise no TTM achievement - or so I've been told), and then abuse the Mughal mission tree as well as take the mandate of heaven and finally convert to confucianism to play culture and religion pokemon as well as delete the world with 90% ccr and free claims and cores everywhere. Sounds like a plan? Feel free to steal the idea! XD Opening move is to no-cb some north indian buddhist minor on the 11.12.1444 Edit: Oh wait, nvm.. You already did something similar with the Oirat/Tibet video.
@@thestudentYTI mean the TTM is just the cherry on top of what is essentially a confucian minghals run. It's just especially viable as Ryukyu because you can see the indians at the start, but they can't see you + you're a tributary of Ming so when you attack and occupy an indian minor next to Delhi, Delhi will attack that minor and you can then vassalize them and essentially drag Ming into a defensive war against Delhi, while you retreat your troops and lower your army maintenance. It's quite the headstart and seemed to be a pretty reliable strat. =D And as we all know: Destroying Delhi is the first step to becoming Delhi (and the Mughals). :P
You can also add another 10 percent war score cost vs other religions once you conquer and convert Mecca and upgrade Kabba to rank 3, add that up with Malta rank 3, Iberian mission, age ability, and diplomatic ideas and you’ll get 80 percent total war score cost reduction against everyone you need. Then simply full annex everyone, release pronoiars, retract right to inheritance, and inherit them without spending admin or diplo manna
Very cool, will have to try it sometime soon. I do worry about Naples releasing while Arta is still under siege and Tunis finding a big ally, and I probably want to keep Greek and Constantinople as capital for role playing purposes, but it’s an incredibly interesting strat. I wonder, were you able to complete the branch leading to the Glasswares of Byzantium mission? That could really help to supplement income for someone who chooses to forgo the raiding doctrine.
Tunis usually allies the Ottomans tho Edit: Ok, I see you already addressed it in comments. Yeah, if Tunis doesn't ally Ottomans before 1460, then it looks very non-rng, yeah.
I wish I had your luck. My best (out of 7 starts) run ended in 1467 when Muscovy and Crimea refused a defensive call to arms due to Castile, overlord to Aragon and Naples, calling Portugal in to a re-conquest war. 🤷🏼♂️
@@thestudentYT Epirus, 7 cities in Naples, most of the initial claims in Magreb, plus a few extra. France never switched friendly and Castile got Aragon pretty early, who'd gotten the remainder of Naples back as PU. Funny side note though, England had Navara as PU. Tried again one last time and after Epirus and Naples wars went perfect, Tunis had Otto as ally. RNGsus hates me. 😋 If I get it to work I'll let you know. I actually really like the strat.
@@thestudentYT Normal and Ironman, so I think lucky nations has to be on right? Either way, I haven't changed that setting. Last run ended as such: Naples event not firing by 1455 (only had around 12 Liberty desire too, so pretty sure Aragon hadn't chosen not to release)... by this time Otto and tunis are allied again and Castile war has ended leaving the Morocco alliance intact. Currently fighting Poland in a succession war for Muscovy in 1452, but still no Naples event. Guess I'll play this out and see if I can keep Muscovy loyal. I do believe your runs went as smoothly as the vid states, but even my recent true one tag/one faith Timi into Mughal run was absolutely hammered with bad RNG (restarted about 3 times just to keep Shah Rukh alive past first two months and spent close to 1000 prestige on sub 8 pip heir rolls throughout the game)... I honestly think I'm EU4 cursed and not a good measure how RNGsus usually treats players. 🤷🏼♂️🤣
When I catch Naples with no allies, Aragon somehow manages to steal one province that you need for the Magna Grecia mission.. Am I the only one that it happened to?
A lot... I always take the maximum of useful ones (so basically every one that doesn't have negative effects) because High loyalty and influence is crazy strong for the modifiers
Hi! I'm trying your strategy, but I have one question. Do you still go for alliance with the pope and then decline on union of churches, so you can call in the pope vs Naples? If NOT how do you 1vs1 Naples, as he has higher force limit and I can't land on his land with 6k troops...
@@thestudentYT Thank you for the answer! Your videos are amazing! Does that mean getting alliance and mil access from Aragon or only mil access? I'm just baffled, because if I land with 10k troop stack Naples comes and kill me. How do you manage to get 20k on Sicily?
@@valtersspare1 I blockaded the straight and landed with 6k at a time... and then crossed with all 20k at once And yes if you improve relatios you get mil access on Aragon
It's a great concept, but I have some questions based on my experience. After the war with Epirus and Naples the Ottomans decleare on me. Muscovy never helps out, my army is still weak, Austria has to do the heavy lifting, but in the midlle of the war Austria leaves the war. I tried France instead of Austria but it worse, because French troops need time to get to the Balkans and when they had enought they leave me with the Ottomans one on one as well. How do you deal with these situations? How do you conquer so fast with the Deteriorating Army Estate Privilege? How do you get rid of it? Develop the provinces or unlock the Repopulation of the Countryside national idea? And what realy kills me... I have two pronoias in North Africa to save some admin points, I got to a point where I can inheriet them. Then Portugal, the Mamluks, Venice and Florence supports the independence of my pronoias and I'm stuck with dead weight. It's the most annoying part of the game. All the hard work for nothing. Thank you for your help.
1. I built about 30k troops after the Naples War and so the Ottomans never attacked me 2. I conquered Naples... that's where the dev comes from to restore the Army 3. I took Influence Ideas and I had a strong Army and I was always ahead in Mil tech... so my subjects were always loyal
This is a really good strategy! Amazing! And I will be starting a play right now. I'm already doing a quite successful byzantium run well into the mid 1500s but this made me want to see what else is possible. I do have a few questions though. did you loose the ability to create pronoias when shifting to tunisian? can one get it back without culture shifting back later for instance by picking espionage ideas?(I guess one should shift anyway at some point to get client states early from reform as I guess overextension will be nightmareish) What about the reliance of republics debuff? did you change capital to tunisa or in italy? but lastly and more curiously why did you get influence ideas in your run?
1. I could have Pronoias the entire Game (Byz Gov. Reforms are not culture based including the Client State Reform if I remember correctly) 2. I moved my capital to Mexico so there are the 8 home Ports to get rid of the Privilege (but also it is not as bad as you might think to just keep it for 60+ years) 3. I took Influence Ideas because I had loyalty issues with my several Pronoias mainly
10 Galleys are enough and you can improve and get mil access from Aragon and then land all troops on Sicily and from there go in with the entire 16k troops you can have (with the Palace Guard Mercs you won't be over Forcelimit)
@@kjb1231234 what i did is before union of the churches event ended, i ally pope by scornful insulting a rival of theirs, dip rep advisor, and religious diplomats privilege which let me barely ally them. then i get rid of union of churches by clicking the event. then u just ask for mil access from pope and keep ur troops there until naples declares independence and fight (if ur allied to pope u wont get exiled when u dec on naples
I had plenty of RNG. Epiris had an ally, Naples got independent in 1445 with an ally (even if not their army is larger). Crimea doesn't want an alliance (neither does Muscovy). The good old "beat Ottomans when they're busy in Asia" is better.
No, your strategy just isn't good. I tried a few more times. Naples never gets independent, Ottomans declare war despite the recommended alliances (and as always Muscovy dishonores), Naples has a larger army by the time my first batch lands, etc... Actually the most unreliable Byz strategy I've tried.
@@drallcom3 And I just tried it again and it worked first try... Btw: Naples get's independent in 95% of all Games, Ottomans won't attack if you have 3 medium Allies and Muscovy (while decreasing Muscovies Opinion of Ottomans of course) and you can very easily improve relations with Aragon even before they release Naples to get mil access and land with 30k troops at once on Sicily if you want so there is no Landing Problems at all... So I am really sorry to say that but honestly you are just wrong here by saying that it is unreliable... but maybe it just requires a little bit more Byzantium-Game-Understanding or Expirience to see the different opportunities and variants in Game but it is really anything but RNG heavy :)
I think it is a wasted idea group... you could see that I was in Mexico by 1500 as Byzantium... so I think everything you need to do can be done with Expansion as well... and then it has 2 colonists and a Merchant and Trade Power and Minimum Autonomy and way better policies
I have found a bit of RNG in this start, I have found that sometimes Castile won’t fight Tunis until after 1460 and by that time Tunis has allied with the ottomans. Before that Tunis had the hug box of Morocco, Granada and fezzan. Troop wise I’m ok but the sheer amount of boats they have is ridiculous.
i have a question about a path Japan can go that is also a crossroad between 2 options. is the ikko-ikki option for Japan worth it for either option?. and if so then is it better to go for the theocratic republic or the theocracy?, both count as a peasant republic (no nobility estate and you get free morale, in addition to production efficiency) and both have restrictions (eastern religion group, and Japanese main culture) but there are more specific benefits for each of them (as a republic you can take parliament from any of the available opportunities in each reform tier you want, as a theocracy you basicly have a few reforms baked into it for free in addition to parliament being a valid option) and there are valid reasons to stay Buddhist (which is forced upon you in exchange for the theocratic republic and the theocracy options) or return to Shinto (because of being both valid for the reform and grants more morale)
Idk a lot about that region of eu4 honestly but Theocracy is probably the best Government type once you can see you heir stats or have a General become your ruler... so midgame it's Theocracy and early Game it's Republic
Interestingly. The ikko ikki theocracy option does allow you to see heir stats (it's one of the reforms baked into it for free). And the ikko ikki theocracy/theocratic republic is arguably the best for a Buddhist nation in the game. If you don't know the other paths Japan can go. There is a specific reform for a Christian Japan (you are required to keep a certain amount of privileges in each estate. Also it's only ok and is best for a tall Japan, but only if it's specifically Catholic). You have a path for absolutism (which is chosen as the opposite of a Christian Japan, also the absolutism path is made for a wc but has nothing to help with religion), Japan can also be a colonial power (no specific reform is required, but you can get more out of it from parliament) or become the emperor of China (it is very different from the hre but there are still reforms, also it requires being extremely careful after the age of discovery do to stuff with a disaster)
I have a question for something I'm considering in a Florence run to form Italy and perhaps rome (it's if I get the land/have enough time to accomplish the achievement). I'm going to go protestant (it's looking like the reformation will be taking it's time, but it will help more than not and potentially turn it into a wc later down the line). But the question is this, is it worth it to become a theocracy or stay a Italian signoria that uses sortition? (Because of it being ironman I can't test it in the playthough, also I plan to take advantage of all 3 Italian formables mission trees before I become Italy so I can get everything I can before Italy is formed)
@@thestudentYT i can imagine why. but. theocracy does get a reform for 30% war score cost on nations of another religion, that's why i was asking (i also know it's not worth becoming a monarchy. it's already a different timeline than real life so there's not much of a reason, not to mention it would be worse for monarch points)
it is nice, but problem is, it doesn't work in mp.. :( As of singleplayer, i enjoy my strugle way of playing.. just tried your portugal strat... i got aztec gov.. but it turned to shit anyway.. none in europe like me.. all blue i will get at 1800..
@@thestudentYT Okay but how do I beat Naples? lol They've got 15-20k troops vs my 12k + allies and none of us can get over there without landing 6k at a time or so which are instantly stackwiped
@@skykid you can improve with Aragon to get Mil Acces and then land all troops on sicily and then cross with your entire Army at once And the Palacr guard doesn't take Force limit so definetly use that one
So, can you start as Venice, take Byzantium as Vassal and then use their missions to do the same so you can use the Venetian colonial mission efficiently? I will try that out. Current idea would be to take the Tunis land for myself after I feed Byzantium the Naples provinces, the cores they get will be useful to expand and I would be able to culture shift and become a raider with this change of the strategy. I can take some Serbian, Bosnian and Herzogovinan lands for myself to keep Byzantium loyal or don't give them Constantinople if it doesn't bar them from completing the missions. I think they don't need Constantinopel to complete the missions - so you just need to make sure they get the impending doom misson passed before you attack them which means Byzans needs two Allies, but you could just give them an Alliance yourself and cancel it once they allied either Albania or Serbia or whomever. You could revoke alliance and insult them them so you don't get a stab hit before attacking since you wait for the galleys to complete to get your claim as Venice. Then you take Expansion ideas and complete Charter the Far Seas missions for 50% colonial range, which probably puts you directly into Cuba from the Barbary Coast. You'll reach Brazil for sure.
Update on update: I played though it and it's quite overpowered - but you can't become corsair (without destating land). You can only abuse Byzantium for claims and get over to the new world quickly. Had pretty bad RNG (Portugal, Spain and Aragon are allied / RMd and France doesn't want to foght them. Also got unlucky with sieges which stalled me, but eventuallyv in 1480, I had taken SUS provinces and an explorer. Easy colonizing after I explored the needed provinces in 1485. On tech 7 with decision and advisor and mission bonus you have almost 500 colonial range.
Still requires a fair bit of rng, Naples reached mil 4 before I did and was released, meaning I couldn’t dec at the right time. You also need to capture at least one cog from Epirus in my experience. Then Morocco’s subjects declared independence with Tunis and company supporting them, meaning that Tunis had 2 more allies and Castile doesn’t fight them. I’ve gotten this to work one time out of a decent number of tries. Fezzan is allied to tlemcen and Tunis so I can’t fight Tunis that way. I’m very tired of restarting.
Yes you have to focus on Military Points from the start of course and then you need to either ally the Pope and land troops there before calling them in against Naples or you have to get mil access from Aragon and land all troops on Sicily before crossing... the Mil Focus also solves the "Problem" with Tunis and it's allies because they will always be one tech behind and also when Tunis is in the Western Maghreb and you have 20k troops then you are the stronger enemy and they will focus on the others first so that you can easily siege them down before they come back... everything else is just different versions of the AI Setups that require just a little creative Problem solving while playing
How do you manage converting all that north african land without early religious ideas tho? Also how do you discover all that land without exploration? Surely doing it with spy networks would take forever?
Byzantiums 3rd National Ideas is 3% Missionary strengh and then there is the Advisor and the State Edict... also if you have a colonist (such as from the first Expansion Idea) then you unlock a Burghers Privilege that gives you a decision for an Explorer and Colonial Range, so no need for Exploration Ideas to explore yourself :)
I have a question regarding idea groups. Is it worth while to hold off on getting tech to complete an idea group early on?, To clarify I did that with diplo tech while working on diplomatic ideas (I'm only 2 tech levels behind in diplo and I'm quickly getting diplo points saved up. But I've completed the diplomatic idea group. I've chosen admin ideas as my second idea group. But now I'm having issues with needing to spend admin on stuff like making cores and dealing with inflation from estate loans, also I'm almost exactly at gov cap and own around half of Italy and the next admin tech will fix gov cap issues but I currently am diplomatically dealing with a coalition and am out of manpower while trying to deal with rebels)
If this helps. I'm trying to prevent the rebels from spawning (Venice decided it would be a cool idea to do non-stop blockades to give me lots of war exhaustion), also I'm starting to sometimes get level 3 advisers as options via events and estate agendas (also I got unlucky because my starting level 3 adviser died before the first institution fired in Italy which prevented me from continuing some of the mission tree of Florence because I don't have the dlc to promote advisors. but other than that I think I'm ahead of schedule in regards to owning as much of Italy as I currently do, I also have been taking advantage of being in the hre to avoid a coalition while my alliance with the emperor lasts which at this point I need to check if I have enough development to be kingdom rank so I can decide when to leave the hre after being basically a parasite to it)
If you need some tech in the next few decades (for example to form Italy) then you should go for the tech first... but if you have enough time to delay the tech a bit then Ideas are better to do first because they give a tech discount and typically the better modifiers and your national ideas
I guess this bit of information will be the deciding factor. Switzerland has claims on some of the last provinces of Milan and has France and Hungary as allies. The pope still owns central Italy and there French province. Provonce is an opm inbetween the pope France and saluzzo. Genoa still exists because they expanded in Crimea and allied Venice but also took some land from Milan. I have around 150 development (thought I'd mention in case I can gain the kingdom rank, in which case I could avoid the tech for a little bit longer). Savoy has been partitioned between France and Switzerland (but they seem to be respecting that I want the area of piedmont). I have saluzzo and dalmatia as subjects (dalmatia do to some good luck with an early alliance I had to fight, saluzzo because I figured at the time that it could be worth diplomatically subjugating them) though I also made Trent into a subject (They might not be part of Italy. But they do have Italian culture, plus they also could have been subjected by the hre emperor soon and I'd rather that I own that mountain even if indirectly), and lastly I've made sure I can subjugate (or perhaps at the very least directly annex) Naples in the next war and guaranteed Naples to prevent any pu from France (who happens to be one of my allies at the moment) and the Iberian wedding hasn't happened yet (though castle is allied to Savoy and Austria is allied to Aragon)
@@thestudentYT i got back on eu4 and double checked, i was able to get kingdom rank (apparently i thought i had less dev than i actually had, decided to leave the hre because the emperor is still obligated to protect my opm subject in the hre even if i leave)
@@thestudentYT I'm unsure about something about the reformation (which could happen any day now in the game). so far as Florence I've managed to avoid the disaster that can make you a theocracy. if i keep the starting family in power via signora candidate then I'm almost certain it will fire. but i had enough reform progress to gain a tier 6 reform, is it still a bad idea to become a theocracy at this point or do i just not chose that candidate this time?
You need to reduce Muscovy's Opinion of the Ottomans once, otherwise they are friendly towards them... and then you need to ally Austria or France (or both)
Well, im convinced, this looks too good to not try! (other benefit that i can see is, you get the Administrative Efficiency monument early). Im just curious, why you picked influence as second idea group? Would be espionage be better, AE reduction you mentioned + siege eff., advisor cost etc.
I wonder how you managed to kill Naples, everytime that good ole Fonso dies they have more soldiers than me and a better navy. So I'm at the 10th restart, hoping to ally the Pope in time, but for a non-RNG strategy it is quite hard to find the conditions to execute it
It is really possible without any RNG ... building Galleys in every Province from the Start means that they are done in 1447 and even if it happens earlier... then you got 5 Galleys and 2 lights and Athens has 3 Galleys and 2 lights as well so even without vassalizing Epirus Naples is never able to beat that Navy if played good enough And then just recruit Mercs up to 20k troops which is only 4k over Force limit with the Palace guard and then land all of that on Sicily while blockading it and cross over to Naples with the full 20k at once... No Papal State no additional Allies and no RNG needed... easy
As I said: ally Crimea and Muscovy and reduce Muscovys Opinion of the Ottomans with favors because often they are friendly towards them... then later after Naples and Tunis wars Austria and France will be friendly after improving relations
@@thestudentYT i tried to get a good run like 3 or 4 times but always got decd on around january 46 right after i annex epirus before i can get alliance w anyone as the ottomans first war, maybe im ultra unlucky idk
@@drewziemba8647 You should ally Serbia right away on November 1444 and then improve with Muscovy over 100 while the Epirus War (they will then flip friendly within a few months) and then at the same time improve with Crimea to ally them... and that should easily bring you safety until you are finished with the Naples war where you should have improved with Austria or Hungary in the meantime (whoever of these two rivaled the Ottos) and then after they flip friendly you are completly safe also because you should have about 20k troops yourself after Naples and Tunis
The trade node only loses 2 ducats out of 24... that's less than 10%... the rest is collected by Castile and Portugal which take one more War to annex... so what is the problem?
The first step is how I ultimately got the Byzantium achievement because I could never get the right RNG for the ottomans war. Great innovation on the culture switch and modifier stacking.
Did you have a war against Portugal for Cueta? Before Spain, I mean. Or was it one war and you peaced them out early? Can you easily have a capital in the New World and a trade capital in the Old World? I didn't know that was possible.
@@thestudentYT awesome, just added another question: Can you easily have a capital in the New World and a trade capital in the Old World? I didn't know that was possible.
Can we see your Naples war? It seems you reject the Catholic help event. How are you getting troops there? Do you just keep a diplomat tied up improving with Aragon?
It wouldn't really work because you would have to no-Cb Tunis without the Missiontree... but honestly I can only recommend that DLC on the next Steam Sale when it will be probably about 6-7 Dollars
As someone whos done a lot of byzantium runs... This opener is far from guaranteed. Ive seen naples go free in 1 month or 10 years, also allies with muscovy is often just worthless bc the ai goes hella far into debt almost always and wont join vs ottomans. Also no Tunis doesnt go to war with castile in first 10 years in 100% of games. Sometimes castile gets civil wars etc that drain it enough to not dec for awhile, and ive also seen tunis ally ottomans as well. This is anecdotal ofc, but so is your experience and ive done byzantium runs probly 50+ times over the years as i love the nation.
1. The Epirus War only takes a few months so after that you can fully focus on Naples when they become free (btw the event also has a MTTH of 3 months so even if the Aragonese Ruler dies in December 1444 (which is probably 1/1000 games) you can rush the Fort of Epirus and be done before Naples is even free 2. That's why I said you should ally Crimea, the Ottomans respect the strenght of a few Medium Sized Nations a lot and if you have Crimea and Serbia (or Wallachia uf the Ottos guarentee them) and then the Pope, Hungary or Aragon then the Ottomans won't attack you as well until you are able to Ally Austria or France... Also the biggest Problem of Muscovy not joining is typically that they are friendly to Ottos which you can easily avoid by just reducing their opinion on them once for 10 favors and then keeo increasing your Trust and they'll be joining all defensive wars. 3. In the current Patch Tunis won't Ally Ottos before 1460 because of Ottos Wars and Tunis Relations (that happens only later once they had more time) ... and then also in the current Patch Morocco gets into a War until 1460 every single time because if Castile feels too weak then they'll still suppport the independence of Moroccan subjects or Portugal does that, also Morocco gets sieged down by Pretenders very often so that you could wait for that as well and also Castile attacks Granada 1-3 years after their truce ended in like 70% of the Games I have seen... so don't tell me that there is no opportunity to attack Tunis with no allies (or only with Granada) 4. I played this exact same opening strategy about 10 times before this video and if you follow this strategy exactly as I told in the video I can guarentee that you'll suceed (if you are a decent player) in 95% of the time (5% of the time Aragon keeps Naples and that's actually GG)
How did you overcome your chronic economic problems while conquering naples and castile? I have conquered tunis and tlemcen but i only had to be bankrupt
I let all the Provinces in Mexico core up in the same month (Colonial Nation will then only form on the next monthtick) and then I first moved my capital to Antioch and then from there to Mexico (because Antioch was my only stated Province on the entire Asian Continent) ... Of course you'll have to save up a lot of Adm Points for that
Maybe I don't get it but that just seems like a usual Granada strat reworked to fit Byz ft their strong mission tree... "Go for north africa first to get more clay, go colonial to get more clay"
Aztec missions can be activated by switching the religion to Nahuatl and having your capital in Mexico (the province). This allows a decision to adopt Aztec traditions without forming Aztec. You can switch back to another religion after, but I wonder how the Byzantine mission tree and Aztec mission tree would overlap.
This strategy isn't interesting at all and certainly not efficient either. I don't play byz to play a tunis substitute that turn into a castille substitute.
This is normal mode and historical lucky nations... and it is 100% legit and I did it multiple times in a row more or less like this (If that was your concern)
![โอ้เธอช่าง... - บี้เดอะสกา ft. ต๋อง เทวัญ (Prod. by ป๋าเพชร) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zbWhiLFmVL0/mqdefault.jpg)
Rome into Carthage basically
these are legit roman territories
This is the Byzantium Laith wants.
Colonial Corsair Byzantium... Why did it take a decade for someone to figure this out?
I wouldn't say it took 10 years for someone to figure this out, because this strategy relies on reworked mechanics. There used be no such things as mission trees, epirus used to not exist, Naples would never get independence, etc. I am impressed with the strategy, but there is no way anyone making strategies even a few years ago, would have been able to come up with this.
only the student could
Instructions unclear: Started as Ottomans and annexed Byzantium.
Are you insane? xD
Don't forget about the pulse event from espionage ideas, where you get like -20 or -25% AE impact
No one expects the Roman Colonisers!
The colonized provinces would become Tunisian though, right?
They are some of the OG colonisers
@@alexlupu5698if u form Rome then all maghrebi culture would be roman tho, but yeah it still decade long
Don't let Laith know that the best Byzantium is Tunis.
if I had a ducat every time the 'can't ever not happen' thing did not happen in my game I would be mansa musa.
Even without colonies its a good way a managing AE for a Rome tag. Nice vid. :)
TheStudent asks us, what region is better: A: middle Asia B: whole world excluding "A"
Come on... that was a lot of sea there
So, when the Emperor Heraclius threatened to move the capitol to Carthage during the last Roman-Persian War, to motivate the Constantinopolitan nobles to contribute more to his campaign . . . he really should have gone ahead and done it. Honestly, that might not even be a meme, giving up on recovering the East leaves a stronger but still worn out Persia the only target for the Rashidun Caliphate when it erupts out of Arabia. Ideally the Byzantines can sweep in after they grind each other down for a decade.
Try getting 154 ducats of income by 1517 with a normal Camping as Byzantium and you'll know that this is not a Meme Game xD
People forget that the cores that Byzantium has on the Ottomans will last well into the Age of Reformation.
So there's no rush to reclaim them.
When you culture switch to Tunisian, the duration will be fixed to 1494, but with byz CCR of 25% + possible other bonuses later, you can always conquest instead of reconquest them later (or have Otto in the opposite side of a war in the 50 first years to reset to 0 the duration)
Don't forget the Whitehouse
Only worthwhile as a republic
@@christianwhite8877 -25% governing cost for your states isn't worthless, with townhall it's -75% in total
@@mallevin5479 i was referring to how it also has reelection cost
Laith must be try this strat if he wants another video to form Roman Empire
This is so cursed, but oh so powerful, I love it. Gunna have to give this one a go 😭
Man this looks so fun to do, also looks like a great start for a WC, stopping the colonizers, Otto, and that juice Aztec gold 🤑 oh boy
The scrolling out after the intro goes hard :D
"basically no rng"
Meanwhile my game:
>Naples is released 3 times early in the game when i was still taking Arta.
>Ottomans attacking early in the game me despite being allied to Serbia and the Papal state
>Tunis being allied to the ottomans
It's a cool start and all but from what ive seen tunis is often allied with the ottomans, when i watched the video i was wondering why it never occurred me to attack Tunis and now i remembered why.
You must be a ver, unlucky Gamer...
@@thestudentYT Nah, this is the usual with me as well. The rng on this is insane
@@thestudentYT The problem is that if I remember correctly you were playing on hard, so the AI behaves very differently.
This looks fun but also incredibly cursed.
Tunis allies Ottomans-- RNG
Tunis never allies the Ottomans before 1460
@@thestudentYT okies! great vid and strat.
I doubt this. I have seen Marocco or Tunis in the first 2-4 years.
@@lucaseckert1690Once granada allied the ottomans before 1448
Is that Tunis?
13:08 Byz to the Iberians: "Look at me! I'm the colonizer now!"
Plus Ultra!
OK? OK! Nice guide, an interesting strat.
This strat also locks the Ottomans out of most of their mission tree as they will never own Constantinople.
Yes but that's not a difference to a "normal" run right?
of course a byz run locks ottos out of their mission tree.
tell me you didnt think this was news
Best eu4 guide I've seen
I gotta say, most of the things you emphasized to happen *"100% percent of the time", and "Literally always" has failed to happen for me the last several ames. x) I've had shit luck with especially the Maghreb region, with Castille not doing anything against granada for 30 years. Tunis allying the Mamluks. So on and so forth. But I do want to see the potential of this strat, soi I'll keep trying!
I am sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you as it did several times for me. Maybe fighting Fezzan would be an Alternative to break annoying Tunis alliances
@@thestudentYT That's what I had to resort to in the end. But even they had an unreasonable amount of allies. And Muscovy and Crimea abandoned me when Otto attacked. But, I'll give it a few more goes. It does sound fun to hoist the purple skull and crossbones. :)
Die deutsche Effizienz lohnt sich mal wieder. Sehr schöner Guide.
I think I thought of a correct order for what Italian formables to go with as milian that allows the most options for religion with it working within the mission tree. The first should be Tuscany (the free diplomat is very valuable considering it comes with prestige decay reduction. It also has a few other missions that can help a little, you also normally can get access to Tuscan culture fairly quick which makes it easier to culture shift into). Second should be either Sardinia-piedmont or two sicilies (it depends on a few things. If you are staying Catholic or don't yet own any of Naples directly. Then you go form Sardinia-piedmont and get your admin efficiency but don't forget your free missionary strength mission (the mission says it will fire an event, though keep in mind that the mission reward is determined by the religion your nation is following which can make it optimal to stay Catholic depending on when you complete the mission). In the event you don't own all of Italy (not counting rome) then you have to take the new ideas from Sardinia-piedmont and you can't get much of an optimal situation where you have the ability to chose protestant as an example. As for why two sicilies is viable. You get rewards that include stuff such as reform progress and legitimacy (if your a monarchy it's worth considering) but the main focus is on a permanent tolerance of the true Faith bonus and the conquest of Antioch giving a reward from a mission. The issue with the tolerance of the true Faith bonus is it requires being a tier 4 or higher defender of the Faith while having very high power projection but after that you are free to stop being the defender of the Faith if you don't plan to stay Catholic which is why it's a valuable second formable in Italy, for obvious reasons I don't think I need to mention a third formable as there is only the last one remaining and Italy)
For such plans I'd think diplomatic then admin and then religious ideas would be best (diplomatic for the Warscore cost reduction. Improve relations. And the reputation in addition to the increased relation limit. Admin to capitalize on the ccr of Italian ideas. The promote culture cost reduction. And the stability cost reduction. Religious is in case you stayed a Christian nation and want to convert people faster, Through the tolerance of the true Faith and the cb don't hurt either)
i just double checked on the wiki. it seems i was mistaken about a few things. as savoy/Sardinia-piedmont the religion mission seems to give all the bonuses but switches depending on your religion. which means it is arguably the first formable Millan should take. also the mission for taking over Antioch involves the same for Jerusalem but you also get 50 pap points (i guess spend them before converting to another religion if you plan to do so), and the mission for the diplomat requires around 90 or something prestige and the one before that can be completed as protestant when you get 100 church power (overall, it's a bit easier to fulfill some of those missions requirements than i thought but some of them are still a problem in certain situations)
That is a very interesting strategy. Just did a byz run might try this and compare the two thx
Interesting idea, definitely gonna try it.
Also IIRC province ws cost of other religion depends on province religion and not nation religion.
I know that the wiki says that but I am pretty sure that that is nonsense xD
Fantastic - best eu4 videos on youtube at this point
Tried this strat. Allied with Serbia, Trebizond and the Pope upon attacking allyless Epirus. Muscovy was allied to my rival Moldova so they didnt like me. So far okay though. Naples gets released in January 1445 or so, bad luck cause my Epirus war was still going on. Luckily, Naples didnt get any allies by the time I finished. I declare on Naples, promise land to the pope and the war goes fine. Stupidly enough, two days before I started the war, Moldova became a Polish vassal and Muscovy flipped to friendly. I forgot to ally them. Biggest mistake ever. Also, I could have allied Georgia in addition. "Well, do it after the Naples war" I think - almost done with the war, was just about to make peace when the Ottomans declare war on Athens......Of course the Pope abandons me, Trebizond immediately joins someone elses war and is useless and doesnt even draw Ottoman attention.....That was probably one of the most disastrous wars I have ever fought in EU4 besides my league war with Protestant Sweden where I was outnumbered 4 to 1 but somehow miracolous managed to eventually turn it into a win after I was already at -50 warscore.
After a 5 or 6 year war with the Ottomans that left my and their manpower crippled and me having the worst economy ever and desperately fighting defensive battles with my mercs, I manage to sign a white peace. I could have beat them if I wasnt about to go bankrupt. One month after I finished the war, unsieged Naples from Rebels - I go bankrupt. Great. And I am bankrupt and was still losing two ducats a month on basically nothing.
I am gonna start again lo, this run is over
I love this strategy, I'm going to have to try it out! Was it any more difficult to remove the debuff estate privileges by holding out on fighting the Ottomans and Venice/Genoa?
I didn't remove the Ship thing at all until 1517 and all the others I removed via events and decisions...
Just be aware on having enough allies so that Ottos won't attack you
Lol! That's a nice strat. =D
I'm also trying something funny at the moment.
I'm going for TTM, but plan to switch into Delhi, then Mughals, then convert to Buddhism, migrate my capital to the New World (otherwise no TTM achievement - or so I've been told), and then abuse the Mughal mission tree as well as take the mandate of heaven and finally convert to confucianism to play culture and religion pokemon as well as delete the world with 90% ccr and free claims and cores everywhere.
Sounds like a plan?
Feel free to steal the idea! XD
Opening move is to no-cb some north indian buddhist minor on the 11.12.1444
Edit: Oh wait, nvm.. You already did something similar with the Oirat/Tibet video.
90% CCR is always nice... but you'll never push me into a TTM run ever XD
@@thestudentYTI mean the TTM is just the cherry on top of what is essentially a confucian minghals run. It's just especially viable as Ryukyu because you can see the indians at the start, but they can't see you + you're a tributary of Ming so when you attack and occupy an indian minor next to Delhi, Delhi will attack that minor and you can then vassalize them and essentially drag Ming into a defensive war against Delhi, while you retreat your troops and lower your army maintenance. It's quite the headstart and seemed to be a pretty reliable strat. =D And as we all know: Destroying Delhi is the first step to becoming Delhi (and the Mughals). :P
I love your strategy-explanation videos. Btw what is playlist are you using?
I use several single songs I found, no Playlist
You can also add another 10 percent war score cost vs other religions once you conquer and convert Mecca and upgrade Kabba to rank 3, add that up with Malta rank 3, Iberian mission, age ability, and diplomatic ideas and you’ll get 80 percent total war score cost reduction against everyone you need. Then simply full annex everyone, release pronoiars, retract right to inheritance, and inherit them without spending admin or diplo manna
Mecca is limited to being Muslim Religion
@@thestudentYT I believe there is a Byzantine mission to turn it into a church, I could be wrong though
@@therealmcromano319 I think it gives other modifiers if I remember correctly
Very cool, will have to try it sometime soon. I do worry about Naples releasing while Arta is still under siege and Tunis finding a big ally, and I probably want to keep Greek and Constantinople as capital for role playing purposes, but it’s an incredibly interesting strat.
I wonder, were you able to complete the branch leading to the Glasswares of Byzantium mission? That could really help to supplement income for someone who chooses to forgo the raiding doctrine.
Yes you can complete all the internal Missions exept like the Pentarchy ones
Tunis usually allies the Ottomans tho
Edit: Ok, I see you already addressed it in comments. Yeah, if Tunis doesn't ally Ottomans before 1460, then it looks very non-rng, yeah.
Nice. Gonna try that.
I wish I had your luck. My best (out of 7 starts) run ended in 1467 when Muscovy and Crimea refused a defensive call to arms due to Castile, overlord to Aragon and Naples, calling Portugal in to a re-conquest war. 🤷🏼♂️
If you own stuff in Iberia already then you should have like 30k troops and tech advantage... what have you done?
I can say that I wasn't lucky though
@@thestudentYT Epirus, 7 cities in Naples, most of the initial claims in Magreb, plus a few extra. France never switched friendly and Castile got Aragon pretty early, who'd gotten the remainder of Naples back as PU. Funny side note though, England had Navara as PU.
Tried again one last time and after Epirus and Naples wars went perfect, Tunis had Otto as ally. RNGsus hates me. 😋
If I get it to work I'll let you know. I actually really like the strat.
@@beaumartin8009 Maybe you play on a harder difficulty or without lucky nations or something?
@@thestudentYT Normal and Ironman, so I think lucky nations has to be on right? Either way, I haven't changed that setting. Last run ended as such: Naples event not firing by 1455 (only had around 12 Liberty desire too, so pretty sure Aragon hadn't chosen not to release)... by this time Otto and tunis are allied again and Castile war has ended leaving the Morocco alliance intact.
Currently fighting Poland in a succession war for Muscovy in 1452, but still no Naples event. Guess I'll play this out and see if I can keep Muscovy loyal.
I do believe your runs went as smoothly as the vid states, but even my recent true one tag/one faith Timi into Mughal run was absolutely hammered with bad RNG (restarted about 3 times just to keep Shah Rukh alive past first two months and spent close to 1000 prestige on sub 8 pip heir rolls throughout the game)... I honestly think I'm EU4 cursed and not a good measure how RNGsus usually treats players. 🤷🏼♂️🤣
@@beaumartin8009 "Cursed" - that doesn't seem to be too much fun ;)
But yeah sometimes I feel the same
This is like the Third Odyssey mod.
When I catch Naples with no allies, Aragon somehow manages to steal one province that you need for the Magna Grecia mission..
Am I the only one that it happened to?
Great video. I would love if it showed more gameplay instead of just the timelapse
Do I state the naples provinces or will I not be able to flip tunisian if I do?
You can half-state them until you are Tunisian and then full State it later
Tried it a few times and have ended up crippled with debt the two times I've got to the tunis fight. What estate privelidges do you take?
A lot... I always take the maximum of useful ones (so basically every one that doesn't have negative effects) because High loyalty and influence is crazy strong for the modifiers
Hi! I'm trying your strategy, but I have one question. Do you still go for alliance with the pope and then decline on union of churches, so you can call in the pope vs Naples? If NOT how do you 1vs1 Naples, as he has higher force limit and I can't land on his land with 6k troops...
I landed on Sicily with 20k troops
@@thestudentYT Thank you for the answer! Your videos are amazing! Does that mean getting alliance and mil access from Aragon or only mil access? I'm just baffled, because if I land with 10k troop stack Naples comes and kill me. How do you manage to get 20k on Sicily?
@@valtersspare1 I blockaded the straight and landed with 6k at a time... and then crossed with all 20k at once
And yes if you improve relatios you get mil access on Aragon
@@thestudentYT Genius! Thx for answering!
I’m curious if it might be more worthwhile to convert to an Iberian culture instead of Tunisian. You can unlock the Holy Orders
Maybe yes
It’s definitely different ! Do you have to carry the Byz early maluses for longer ?
No... only the Shipbuilding one but who cares
It's a great concept, but I have some questions based on my experience.
After the war with Epirus and Naples the Ottomans decleare on me. Muscovy never helps out, my army is still weak, Austria has to do the heavy lifting, but in the midlle of the war Austria leaves the war. I tried France instead of Austria but it worse, because French troops need time to get to the Balkans and when they had enought they leave me with the Ottomans one on one as well. How do you deal with these situations?
How do you conquer so fast with the Deteriorating Army Estate Privilege?
How do you get rid of it? Develop the provinces or unlock the Repopulation of the Countryside national idea?
And what realy kills me... I have two pronoias in North Africa to save some admin points, I got to a point where I can inheriet them. Then Portugal, the Mamluks, Venice and Florence supports the independence of my pronoias and I'm stuck with dead weight. It's the most annoying part of the game. All the hard work for nothing.
Thank you for your help.
1. I built about 30k troops after the Naples War and so the Ottomans never attacked me
2. I conquered Naples... that's where the dev comes from to restore the Army
3. I took Influence Ideas and I had a strong Army and I was always ahead in Mil tech... so my subjects were always loyal
This is a really good strategy! Amazing! And I will be starting a play right now. I'm already doing a quite successful byzantium run well into the mid 1500s but this made me want to see what else is possible. I do have a few questions though. did you loose the ability to create pronoias when shifting to tunisian? can one get it back without culture shifting back later for instance by picking espionage ideas?(I guess one should shift anyway at some point to get client states early from reform as I guess overextension will be nightmareish)
What about the reliance of republics debuff? did you change capital to tunisa or in italy?
but lastly and more curiously why did you get influence ideas in your run?
1. I could have Pronoias the entire Game (Byz Gov. Reforms are not culture based including the Client State Reform if I remember correctly)
2. I moved my capital to Mexico so there are the 8 home Ports to get rid of the Privilege (but also it is not as bad as you might think to just keep it for 60+ years)
3. I took Influence Ideas because I had loyalty issues with my several Pronoias mainly
@@thestudentYT ah thats awesome! Thanks for your answers man. I love your videos. cheers
Byzantium to Carthage strat.
If you save the religious mission reward you can get double impact from the AE reduction icon
I like using that on the discipline and manpower recovery. Rolling up on someone with an extra 10% discipline and 50% manpower recovery is kinda nuts.
@@ragefacememeaholic5366well, -20 dev and construction is also very nice, easier to repair the army and end the union
@@Sowaq dev cost reduction is really good, but I think the tempo provided by the manpower recovery speed is better.
This is super cool, how do you go about invasion of Naples?
I feel like they'd have too many troops and shipbuilding is hell early for byz
10 Galleys are enough and you can improve and get mil access from Aragon and then land all troops on Sicily and from there go in with the entire 16k troops you can have (with the Palace Guard Mercs you won't be over Forcelimit)
@@thestudentYT awesome, about to give it another go thanks!
@@kjb1231234 what i did is before union of the churches event ended, i ally pope by scornful insulting a rival of theirs, dip rep advisor, and religious diplomats privilege which let me barely ally them. then i get rid of union of churches by clicking the event. then u just ask for mil access from pope and keep ur troops there until naples declares independence and fight (if ur allied to pope u wont get exiled when u dec on naples
I also did this by getting access from Ferrara and moving down Italy one country at a time hahaha
So what do you state up and what to make into trade companies?
I had plenty of RNG. Epiris had an ally, Naples got independent in 1445 with an ally (even if not their army is larger). Crimea doesn't want an alliance (neither does Muscovy).
The good old "beat Ottomans when they're busy in Asia" is better.
You must be the unluckiest person alive...
No, your strategy just isn't good. I tried a few more times. Naples never gets independent, Ottomans declare war despite the recommended alliances (and as always Muscovy dishonores), Naples has a larger army by the time my first batch lands, etc...
Actually the most unreliable Byz strategy I've tried.
@@drallcom3 And I just tried it again and it worked first try...
Btw: Naples get's independent in 95% of all Games, Ottomans won't attack if you have 3 medium Allies and Muscovy (while decreasing Muscovies Opinion of Ottomans of course) and you can very easily improve relations with Aragon even before they release Naples to get mil access and land with 30k troops at once on Sicily if you want so there is no Landing Problems at all...
So I am really sorry to say that but honestly you are just wrong here by saying that it is unreliable... but maybe it just requires a little bit more Byzantium-Game-Understanding or Expirience to see the different opportunities and variants in Game but it is really anything but RNG heavy :)
Your video claims "No RNG", while in reality it's a lot of RNG.
This strat looks amazing. I have one question: Is exploration ideas not a good choice in the beginning?
I think it is a wasted idea group... you could see that I was in Mexico by 1500 as Byzantium... so I think everything you need to do can be done with Expansion as well... and then it has 2 colonists and a Merchant and Trade Power and Minimum Autonomy and way better policies
I have found a bit of RNG in this start, I have found that sometimes Castile won’t fight Tunis until after 1460 and by that time Tunis has allied with the ottomans. Before that Tunis had the hug box of Morocco, Granada and fezzan. Troop wise I’m ok but the sheer amount of boats they have is ridiculous.
You typically can also attack Fezzan early on and break Tunis alliances
i have a question about a path Japan can go that is also a crossroad between 2 options. is the ikko-ikki option for Japan worth it for either option?. and if so then is it better to go for the theocratic republic or the theocracy?, both count as a peasant republic (no nobility estate and you get free morale, in addition to production efficiency) and both have restrictions (eastern religion group, and Japanese main culture) but there are more specific benefits for each of them (as a republic you can take parliament from any of the available opportunities in each reform tier you want, as a theocracy you basicly have a few reforms baked into it for free in addition to parliament being a valid option) and there are valid reasons to stay Buddhist (which is forced upon you in exchange for the theocratic republic and the theocracy options) or return to Shinto (because of being both valid for the reform and grants more morale)
Idk a lot about that region of eu4 honestly but Theocracy is probably the best Government type once you can see you heir stats or have a General become your ruler... so midgame it's Theocracy and early Game it's Republic
Interestingly. The ikko ikki theocracy option does allow you to see heir stats (it's one of the reforms baked into it for free). And the ikko ikki theocracy/theocratic republic is arguably the best for a Buddhist nation in the game. If you don't know the other paths Japan can go. There is a specific reform for a Christian Japan (you are required to keep a certain amount of privileges in each estate. Also it's only ok and is best for a tall Japan, but only if it's specifically Catholic). You have a path for absolutism (which is chosen as the opposite of a Christian Japan, also the absolutism path is made for a wc but has nothing to help with religion), Japan can also be a colonial power (no specific reform is required, but you can get more out of it from parliament) or become the emperor of China (it is very different from the hre but there are still reforms, also it requires being extremely careful after the age of discovery do to stuff with a disaster)
I have a question for something I'm considering in a Florence run to form Italy and perhaps rome (it's if I get the land/have enough time to accomplish the achievement). I'm going to go protestant (it's looking like the reformation will be taking it's time, but it will help more than not and potentially turn it into a wc later down the line). But the question is this, is it worth it to become a theocracy or stay a Italian signoria that uses sortition? (Because of it being ironman I can't test it in the playthough, also I plan to take advantage of all 3 Italian formables mission trees before I become Italy so I can get everything I can before Italy is formed)
Imo Signoria with Sortition is way better than Theocracy
@@thestudentYT i can imagine why. but. theocracy does get a reform for 30% war score cost on nations of another religion, that's why i was asking (i also know it's not worth becoming a monarchy. it's already a different timeline than real life so there's not much of a reason, not to mention it would be worse for monarch points)
it is nice, but problem is, it doesn't work in mp.. :( As of singleplayer, i enjoy my strugle way of playing.. just tried your portugal strat... i got aztec gov.. but it turned to shit anyway.. none in europe like me.. all blue i will get at 1800..
Aren't you technically just reforming Carthage? ;) good video thank you
Carthage never got to the new world... I am a better Rome and a better Carthage here ;)
@@thestudentYT Okay but how do I beat Naples? lol They've got 15-20k troops vs my 12k + allies and none of us can get over there without landing 6k at a time or so which are instantly stackwiped
@@skykid you can improve with Aragon to get Mil Acces and then land all troops on sicily and then cross with your entire Army at once
And the Palacr guard doesn't take Force limit so definetly use that one
So, can you start as Venice, take Byzantium as Vassal and then use their missions to do the same so you can use the Venetian colonial mission efficiently?
I will try that out.
Current idea would be to take the Tunis land for myself after I feed Byzantium the Naples provinces, the cores they get will be useful to expand and I would be able to culture shift and become a raider with this change of the strategy. I can take some Serbian, Bosnian and Herzogovinan lands for myself to keep Byzantium loyal or don't give them Constantinople if it doesn't bar them from completing the missions.
I think they don't need Constantinopel to complete the missions - so you just need to make sure they get the impending doom misson passed before you attack them which means Byzans needs two Allies, but you could just give them an Alliance yourself and cancel it once they allied either Albania or Serbia or whomever. You could revoke alliance and insult them them so you don't get a stab hit before attacking since you wait for the galleys to complete to get your claim as Venice. Then you take Expansion ideas and complete Charter the Far Seas missions for 50% colonial range, which probably puts you directly into Cuba from the Barbary Coast. You'll reach Brazil for sure.
Update on update: I played though it and it's quite overpowered - but you can't become corsair (without destating land).
You can only abuse Byzantium for claims and get over to the new world quickly.
Had pretty bad RNG (Portugal, Spain and Aragon are allied / RMd and France doesn't want to foght them. Also got unlucky with sieges which stalled me, but eventuallyv in 1480, I had taken SUS provinces and an explorer.
Easy colonizing after I explored the needed provinces in 1485. On tech 7 with decision and advisor and mission bonus you have almost 500 colonial range.
Salve, amigos.
Still requires a fair bit of rng, Naples reached mil 4 before I did and was released, meaning I couldn’t dec at the right time. You also need to capture at least one cog from Epirus in my experience. Then Morocco’s subjects declared independence with Tunis and company supporting them, meaning that Tunis had 2 more allies and Castile doesn’t fight them. I’ve gotten this to work one time out of a decent number of tries. Fezzan is allied to tlemcen and Tunis so I can’t fight Tunis that way. I’m very tired of restarting.
Yes you have to focus on Military Points from the start of course and then you need to either ally the Pope and land troops there before calling them in against Naples or you have to get mil access from Aragon and land all troops on Sicily before crossing... the Mil Focus also solves the "Problem" with Tunis and it's allies because they will always be one tech behind and also when Tunis is in the Western Maghreb and you have 20k troops then you are the stronger enemy and they will focus on the others first so that you can easily siege them down before they come back... everything else is just different versions of the AI Setups that require just a little creative Problem solving while playing
Rng: France wants your Naples territory
Not in any of my Games
How do you manage converting all that north african land without early religious ideas tho?
Also how do you discover all that land without exploration? Surely doing it with spy networks would take forever?
Byzantiums 3rd National Ideas is 3% Missionary strengh and then there is the Advisor and the State Edict... also if you have a colonist (such as from the first Expansion Idea) then you unlock a Burghers Privilege that gives you a decision for an Explorer and Colonial Range, so no need for Exploration Ideas to explore yourself :)
I have a question regarding idea groups. Is it worth while to hold off on getting tech to complete an idea group early on?, To clarify I did that with diplo tech while working on diplomatic ideas (I'm only 2 tech levels behind in diplo and I'm quickly getting diplo points saved up. But I've completed the diplomatic idea group. I've chosen admin ideas as my second idea group. But now I'm having issues with needing to spend admin on stuff like making cores and dealing with inflation from estate loans, also I'm almost exactly at gov cap and own around half of Italy and the next admin tech will fix gov cap issues but I currently am diplomatically dealing with a coalition and am out of manpower while trying to deal with rebels)
If this helps. I'm trying to prevent the rebels from spawning (Venice decided it would be a cool idea to do non-stop blockades to give me lots of war exhaustion), also I'm starting to sometimes get level 3 advisers as options via events and estate agendas (also I got unlucky because my starting level 3 adviser died before the first institution fired in Italy which prevented me from continuing some of the mission tree of Florence because I don't have the dlc to promote advisors. but other than that I think I'm ahead of schedule in regards to owning as much of Italy as I currently do, I also have been taking advantage of being in the hre to avoid a coalition while my alliance with the emperor lasts which at this point I need to check if I have enough development to be kingdom rank so I can decide when to leave the hre after being basically a parasite to it)
If you need some tech in the next few decades (for example to form Italy) then you should go for the tech first... but if you have enough time to delay the tech a bit then Ideas are better to do first because they give a tech discount and typically the better modifiers and your national ideas
I guess this bit of information will be the deciding factor. Switzerland has claims on some of the last provinces of Milan and has France and Hungary as allies. The pope still owns central Italy and there French province. Provonce is an opm inbetween the pope France and saluzzo. Genoa still exists because they expanded in Crimea and allied Venice but also took some land from Milan. I have around 150 development (thought I'd mention in case I can gain the kingdom rank, in which case I could avoid the tech for a little bit longer). Savoy has been partitioned between France and Switzerland (but they seem to be respecting that I want the area of piedmont). I have saluzzo and dalmatia as subjects (dalmatia do to some good luck with an early alliance I had to fight, saluzzo because I figured at the time that it could be worth diplomatically subjugating them) though I also made Trent into a subject (They might not be part of Italy. But they do have Italian culture, plus they also could have been subjected by the hre emperor soon and I'd rather that I own that mountain even if indirectly), and lastly I've made sure I can subjugate (or perhaps at the very least directly annex) Naples in the next war and guaranteed Naples to prevent any pu from France (who happens to be one of my allies at the moment) and the Iberian wedding hasn't happened yet (though castle is allied to Savoy and Austria is allied to Aragon)
@@thestudentYT i got back on eu4 and double checked, i was able to get kingdom rank (apparently i thought i had less dev than i actually had, decided to leave the hre because the emperor is still obligated to protect my opm subject in the hre even if i leave)
@@thestudentYT I'm unsure about something about the reformation (which could happen any day now in the game). so far as Florence I've managed to avoid the disaster that can make you a theocracy. if i keep the starting family in power via signora candidate then I'm almost certain it will fire. but i had enough reform progress to gain a tier 6 reform, is it still a bad idea to become a theocracy at this point or do i just not chose that candidate this time?
That feeling when the ottomans dow you and Moscow refused the call
You need to reduce Muscovy's Opinion of the Ottomans once, otherwise they are friendly towards them... and then you need to ally Austria or France (or both)
Well, im convinced, this looks too good to not try! (other benefit that i can see is, you get the Administrative Efficiency monument early). Im just curious, why you picked influence as second idea group? Would be espionage be better, AE reduction you mentioned + siege eff., advisor cost etc.
To keep the Pronoias in Line
But that's new Roma or new Carthage 😂
Why fight them if you can also join them? xD
I wonder how you managed to kill Naples, everytime that good ole Fonso dies they have more soldiers than me and a better navy. So I'm at the 10th restart, hoping to ally the Pope in time, but for a non-RNG strategy it is quite hard to find the conditions to execute it
It is really possible without any RNG ... building Galleys in every Province from the Start means that they are done in 1447 and even if it happens earlier... then you got 5 Galleys and 2 lights and Athens has 3 Galleys and 2 lights as well so even without vassalizing Epirus Naples is never able to beat that Navy if played good enough
And then just recruit Mercs up to 20k troops which is only 4k over Force limit with the Palace guard and then land all of that on Sicily while blockading it and cross over to Naples with the full 20k at once...
No Papal State no additional Allies and no RNG needed... easy
Epic
how do you avoid getting declared on by the ottomans in the first few years?
As I said: ally Crimea and Muscovy and reduce Muscovys Opinion of the Ottomans with favors because often they are friendly towards them... then later after Naples and Tunis wars Austria and France will be friendly after improving relations
@@thestudentYT i tried to get a good run like 3 or 4 times but always got decd on around january 46 right after i annex epirus before i can get alliance w anyone as the ottomans first war, maybe im ultra unlucky idk
@@drewziemba8647 You should ally Serbia right away on November 1444 and then improve with Muscovy over 100 while the Epirus War (they will then flip friendly within a few months) and then at the same time improve with Crimea to ally them... and that should easily bring you safety until you are finished with the Naples war where you should have improved with Austria or Hungary in the meantime (whoever of these two rivaled the Ottos) and then after they flip friendly you are completly safe also because you should have about 20k troops yourself after Naples and Tunis
Virtually nothing goes out of the trade node, proceeds to lose 42% of the trade
The trade node only loses 2 ducats out of 24... that's less than 10%... the rest is collected by Castile and Portugal which take one more War to annex... so what is the problem?
Is it possible to switch to Aztec culture as byzantium to get their t1 reform? And sacrifice pronorai rulers to insta inherit?
Yes, and no because you need that Byzantine Tier 1 Reform to be allowed to have Pronoias
@@thestudentYT Unfortunate, it would make perfect material for video from you "how to break eu4 even more" :)
The first step is how I ultimately got the Byzantium achievement because I could never get the right RNG for the ottomans war.
Great innovation on the culture switch and modifier stacking.
Did you have a war against Portugal for Cueta? Before Spain, I mean. Or was it one war and you peaced them out early?
Can you easily have a capital in the New World and a trade capital in the Old World? I didn't know that was possible.
They guarenteed a Maghrebi Minor... but otherwise you can just rush it in the castile war
@@thestudentYT awesome, just added another question: Can you easily have a capital in the New World and a trade capital in the Old World? I didn't know that was possible.
@@benabaxter you can just move your trade port wherever you want after you move your capital
@@chriscox837 Pretty wild stuff. I haven't played a campaign in a while---going to have to do this one. Espionage-Expansion?
Can we see your Naples war?
It seems you reject the Catholic help event. How are you getting troops there?
Do you just keep a diplomat tied up improving with Aragon?
I landed on Sicily (Diplomat only takes like 1 year to get access and also you are an Empire so you have 3 diplomats)
How reliant is this on DLC? I do not have the mission tree nor do I have any of the coastal raiding, but it sounds like the basic set up would work
It wouldn't really work because you would have to no-Cb Tunis without the Missiontree... but honestly I can only recommend that DLC on the next Steam Sale when it will be probably about 6-7 Dollars
Roman pirates I like
Rewatching to work out how I raid again because I culture shifted and still can’t 😅
Edit: ahhh naval doctrine
Took me 2 full raid cycles but I’m finally out of the debt spiral
As someone whos done a lot of byzantium runs... This opener is far from guaranteed. Ive seen naples go free in 1 month or 10 years, also allies with muscovy is often just worthless bc the ai goes hella far into debt almost always and wont join vs ottomans. Also no Tunis doesnt go to war with castile in first 10 years in 100% of games. Sometimes castile gets civil wars etc that drain it enough to not dec for awhile, and ive also seen tunis ally ottomans as well. This is anecdotal ofc, but so is your experience and ive done byzantium runs probly 50+ times over the years as i love the nation.
1. The Epirus War only takes a few months so after that you can fully focus on Naples when they become free (btw the event also has a MTTH of 3 months so even if the Aragonese Ruler dies in December 1444 (which is probably 1/1000 games) you can rush the Fort of Epirus and be done before Naples is even free
2. That's why I said you should ally Crimea, the Ottomans respect the strenght of a few Medium Sized Nations a lot and if you have Crimea and Serbia (or Wallachia uf the Ottos guarentee them) and then the Pope, Hungary or Aragon then the Ottomans won't attack you as well until you are able to Ally Austria or France... Also the biggest Problem of Muscovy not joining is typically that they are friendly to Ottos which you can easily avoid by just reducing their opinion on them once for 10 favors and then keeo increasing your Trust and they'll be joining all defensive wars.
3. In the current Patch Tunis won't Ally Ottos before 1460 because of Ottos Wars and Tunis Relations (that happens only later once they had more time) ... and then also in the current Patch Morocco gets into a War until 1460 every single time because if Castile feels too weak then they'll still suppport the independence of Moroccan subjects or Portugal does that, also Morocco gets sieged down by Pretenders very often so that you could wait for that as well and also Castile attacks Granada 1-3 years after their truce ended in like 70% of the Games I have seen... so don't tell me that there is no opportunity to attack Tunis with no allies (or only with Granada)
4. I played this exact same opening strategy about 10 times before this video and if you follow this strategy exactly as I told in the video I can guarentee that you'll suceed (if you are a decent player) in 95% of the time (5% of the time Aragon keeps Naples and that's actually GG)
Is that aragon colony in the caraibean?
English
If you form the roman empire, won't your capital be moved to Rome, and Mexico will become a colony?
If yes, how can you stop that from happening
Insta move capital back while remaining paused should work.
Yes but you can keep the Game paused and move it back immediatly
Good to know, gotta save some admin before doing it.
what if tunis allies ottomans? they almost always do that
They never do that before 1455... and until then they should be gone :)
How did you overcome your chronic economic problems while conquering naples and castile?
I have conquered tunis and tlemcen but i only had to be bankrupt
Raiding after Tunis culture Switch
Tried this 5 times and I’m getting stuck on Naples beating my ass.
You need to land on Sicily and cross with your entire Army at once
Aragonese Iberia, huh?
I didn't get how you move capital to Mexico? You have a bunch of provinces there - why didn't those form a colonial nation?
I let all the Provinces in Mexico core up in the same month (Colonial Nation will then only form on the next monthtick) and then I first moved my capital to Antioch and then from there to Mexico (because Antioch was my only stated Province on the entire Asian Continent) ...
Of course you'll have to save up a lot of Adm Points for that
Maybe I don't get it but that just seems like a usual Granada strat reworked to fit Byz ft their strong mission tree...
"Go for north africa first to get more clay, go colonial to get more clay"
And the Raiding strat and the Mexican Home Base strat wich are definetly new... also this is way way more stable than no-CB on Granada
was influence ideas necessary?
It was very helpful for liberty desite on the pronoias and for the diplo rep but otherwise, no
Do you have to guarantee Mamluks or does retaining Constantinople prevent the Ottomans from aggroing them.
They never even tried to attack them even when I have beaten them... so I guess without Constantinople they are just to weak
Only works on normal tho
15:00 do you mean 1450s?
Wasn't that about reconquering the Roman Empire? I think 1450s is a little harsh for that XD
@@thestudentYT At this point i wouldn't surprised if you did it
Why not pick up Aztec missions? You're already in Mexico
Why would I do that? And also I cannot form anything else
Aztec missions can be activated by switching the religion to Nahuatl and having your capital in Mexico (the province). This allows a decision to adopt Aztec traditions without forming Aztec. You can switch back to another religion after, but I wonder how the Byzantine mission tree and Aztec mission tree would overlap.
And also it would ruin your country more to flip Nahuatl than the Missions could ever give you... Byzantine Missions are crazy strong already
It seems fun but not efficient, by that time normally you should already have formed Roman Empire in normal difficulty
Sure Byz Roman Empire in 1517... casual
@@thestudentYT i mean pronoia system is really broken. you can vassal feed all of hre in one war then inherit
This strategy isn't interesting at all and certainly not efficient either. I don't play byz to play a tunis substitute that turn into a castille substitute.
Even the way that you describe it in your comment this still sounds very interesting and unique to me :)
Fundatur
hi
Is it very hard and random lucky nations? Amazing I want to see you play it sub from me
This is normal mode and historical lucky nations... and it is 100% legit and I did it multiple times in a row more or less like this (If that was your concern)
ngl gross way to play Eastern Rome