For anyone who wants to replace the original spring with a similar size or experiment on how differences change the centering feel, the measurements are: 17mm Length 18mm Outer Diameter 1.4mm Wire Diameter
Update: I traded this for a VKB Gladiator and have NOT looked back on this Turtle Beach since. The spring is not worth replacing since it's not nearly as moddable as the Thrustmaster Warthog or even the X56 gimbal + large spring system. I'm also extremely disappointed they released the Flight Deck which does fix all of the problems this stick has, but at a price you can get a full VKB Gladiator + STECS or a Gunfighter base with the MCG for only $20 ($420) more. In terms of self enjoyment and practical usability, this stick will NOT last for a long time because of the many poor design choices they made on it that Noob does touch up on in this video. I owned this flightstick since August 2023 with 200 hours played: 90% of my gameplay is flight sims with 10% fighter jets, and the performance of the gimbal as described in this video with the force deflection through the center made flying airliners much less fun than it should be. The complete lack of adjustability of curves on this where I can only modify it in its software with generic presets that are Precision, Linear, and Fast felt too restrictive to their settings in finding a feel that was somewhat realistic. Although the Gladiator does have a center detent with its plastic cam and the EVO with clutch dampeners with lighter springs does help mitigate it, it is a massive night and day difference in quality from Turtle Beach's gimbal. The trim wheel axis on this is completely useless in MSFS when it refuses to center or work as an encoder since it saves the value after every flight. The buttons B16, B17, and the mouse cursor trackpad surrounding the trim wheel are very poorly laid out and are feel very cheap when they press from the lightest touch. A Logitech Extreme 3D Pro or a Thrustmaster T80 racing wheel for half or quarter of the price of this stick uses much better tactile buttons on their units than this. Twist axis on this is also subpar compared to VKB's twist adapter since it's angle range is only half of it, which makes it harder to do precise movements even with a decent hall sensor. Software for VKB does take a while to learn since it's not intuitive, but VKB has posted their tutorials on TH-cam and show it is very powerful like Joystick Gremlin, and certainly much more than nothing which this flight stick has. With VKB's software you can setup a trackpad, pov hat, and cockpit movement axis all in ONE ministick with the SCG through "Shift" and "Subshift" modes as well as having a center push button to double the use of the same ministick as a Analog Hat Switch instead. Lesson learned, skip the Flight Stick entirely and get a VKB Gladiator NXT EVO with the Premium Space Combat grip and you guaranteed will not regret it.
I was seriously considering this stick, but having Cerebral Palsy and hearing about stick tension problems is EXACTLY WHAT I personally needed to know... deep thanks for your honesty!
@@elwinbrake2695 I think you might like VKB's products, especially the older Gladiator MK.II base. It has a very smooth center transition. Unfortunately it is sold out from the official store.
Tbh even without motor control problems, its really irritating to have sticks like that. I almost feel like a shill saying that, considering the other comments, but a VKB Glad was a massive upgrade. Its the cheapest way to get an actually great joystick. Virpil is dope with their full metal construction, but theyre like 2.5 times as expensive.
High respect for your technical and methodical approach. The companies who make these products are wise enough to ask for your review. I do hope they're wise enough to listen to it as well.
Agreed... a mk II version, ironing out all the niggles that their customers find with it, could be one of the all-time greats... it sounds like a go-to stick already.
@@Kinzokugia Get yourself a VKB Gladiator NXT Premium. Only a bit more expensive, but its got 90% of the joystick feel a stick can offer, and like >20 buttons. Like, I didnt even know that sticks can feel so much better than the cheap ball/cup construction, until I got that thing. If you wanna go budget, the VO Stick seems to handle a lot worse than a T-16000M, to be honest. A T16 is actually pretty good for a 'cheap' joystick, take it with a TWCS and you got a real HOTAS setup.
They released the Flight Deck full HOTAS earlier this year which does come packed with even more features like a full digital touch screen instead of a gear rotary wheel, and better buttons + triggers. But the gimbal and spring system is the same as this for more than triple the MSRP. The grip is also easily hot-swappable IF they ever release any other grips. Since its still new, a lot of people have been having many issues with the software especially the full digital screen. Overall not worth the features with this brand unless that's exactly what you watched to have that much better joysticks with metal cam gimbals don't provide.
I absolutely love this stick. Bought it for my on the go Steam deck set up and it is fabulous. Has a nice quality feel to it I have no regrets. I don't think the tension is that bad. I have a full Honeycomb yoke, TPM, pedals and Propwash simulation panels so I'm used to a full set up but this makes flying on the go awesome with the 2 throttles and trim wheel with the STEAM deck. Was on sale too!
First time I have seen your video. So much respect for you and the way you present the information. This is why when I watch tech videos I tend to stick to only a very small group of people. You are added to that list! Great info! You and JerryRigEverything have a very similar delivery and it is like music to my ears. Thanks my dude!
Agreed, I was about to pull the trigger on this, but this being the only review of several I watched that talked about aiming & shooting, saved me some cash big time. I immediately subbed after watching.
The centering characterics are 99% based on the gimbal construction. It comes with all the problems of a cup and ball design. A softer spring could solve the centering force problem but will introduce other headaches. TB could have used a better gimbal construction (scissor for example) but that would probably increase the height of the base which wouldn't look as sleek anymore. Nice review btw Noob! Thanks!
Thing is, you can still do a lot better than VO. While Im always gonna be annoyed about the T-16000s Z-axis sensor "breaking" for no reason, that joystick is way better with centering and precision than most other cheap sticks I tried. The VO Stick seems to be much worse compared to that, and thats at 3 times the T16s price point! Scissor construction is probably much more complex and expensive. But then again, a VKB Prem is like 200-220 bucks, and its got almost everything you could wish for on a stick.
@@termitreter6545 ofc it's more expensive, yep. But absolutely worth the investment. It I'd go cup and ball I'd go really cheap like 3D Pro or maybe t16000 or save up and get a scissor based stick
I didn't understand a lot of those words at the end there, but I'm glad I stuck around for it. The stick is awesome, I would definitely consider it, but it sounds like long term it might have me building bad habits. Thanks for the review o7
Not bad habits, think of it this way: In a flight sim that requires you to aim, you want small movement to be easy (with less force), big movements to be hard. With this stick, you put a lot of force to move the small movements away from center, then suddenly the force required to move the stick drops off and you pushs it all the way instead of the precise movement you want.
I appreciate the honesty and value your integrity. I find your videos to be informative and entertaining and support your decisions made in your style of presentation. (As evidenced by the 12+ minutes spent watching this review.) Thank you for this review, I am happy with my dual TM16000Ms but am always on the lookout for the "next best thing". I hope they take your constructive criticism and provide us with that soon.
The Precision Mode Sniper mode thing actually makes a TON of sense on a dual stick setup if you think about it. On the left stick one of the axes will inevitably be your strafe l/r f/b, which means that when parking that precision will effectively put you in "parking mode" which is honestly kind of sick
And there it is (starts @7:52), the number one reason we all hold Noobifier in such high regard: Brutal Honesty. Thank you, Sir. Once again you bring us the facts and no bull. Bless you!
Tnx for the review! It was such an amazing innovating product and i almost bought it right away... lucky i waited for your honest take on its performance Tnx a lot for keeping straight and honest with the reviews, lets hope they fix the joystick part later (an important part if you ask me)
This is probably one of the more interesting developments in flight sticks I have seen in a while. I love the bluetooth connectivity to a phone and the LCD, great features! Im not giving up my Warthog any time soon, but this is a nice entry level option for sure.
Idk if anyone here actually flies or you're just all simmers but this stick being harder toward the center and lighter at the ends.. is actually how flight sticks feel in almost every plane.. ever. so that's actually an advantage as well. It's only a disadvantage because you're used to sim flight sticks being wrong lol.
That's the truth, and I think that was the goal they were aiming for. Training flight simulators have stiff controls that mimic the aircraft being simulated, including the feedback and warnings. The twisting of the stick for rudder actuation is a good cross feed (possibly realistic) for those that don't have rudder pedals, but it can be locked for those that do have rudder pedals that won't be using that feature. I'll be receiving mine tomorrow, so I have the weekend and two days off to figure this puppy out. This is gonna be fun!
I really hope they do a v2 of the stick, I love their aesthetic and that thumb track pad is a huge innovation I really hope becomes ubiquitous, and like their Yoke the plethora of programmable buttons is a plus.
@@Malakie Tbf if you got the space you might want to consider HOTAS. Something like a TWCS throttle has an analog sitck at its back, which can be comfortably used for stuff like strafing. For space stuff theres also dual stick solutoin, though they can get expensive.
Further proof that @TheNOOBIFIER1337 has the utmost respect for his audience by keeping it real and honest. Great review! This product has potential - maybe they'll reach out to you for some product testing on the 2nd gen? As always - WEEEEOOOOOOO!
For anyone who is interested, I also found that the tension on the stick is not only high, but also not very linear. Its not fun to use in ED or SC. However, it is really easy to replace that center spring with a softer one. I used a spring from one of my RC cars, I had laying around spare. Any 20mm diameter spring will do, which gives you the softness you like. Problem now is that it feels really nice and soft and allows for smooth flights, the stick travel is just way too short for me.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Just 8 screws on the base cover and 4 screws holding the center metal plate, which is actually the spring assembly. But be mindful of the center plate orientation when you put it back together, it goes a specific way (small guide holes on the corners).
Seeing ive only played the Ace Combat series & a couple space combat titles on consoles, when you say the stick travel is too short, you talking about moving your plane instantly from barely moving the stick?
Hopefully TB will take this to heart and release an updated version much like Logitech did with the G502 mouse and switches. Excellent review man, there's a reason I've subscribed to you for years now
love this stick , the stiff feel of the stick gives me a better feel of almost hydraulic based flight and in my case better control as I tend to heavy hand every flight stick . only real issue I had with the stick is in SC set up being not all of the sticks toggle hats show up as options to use or set up.
I always felt like the t1600 is too sloppy and soft for me, I wonder if this resistance would feel better because like you I def heavy hand my sticks and this has better options on stick for buttons givin they all actually show up.
I really appreciate the review. I really hope a V2 Turtle Beach is suitable for space flight games. It's such a cool concept, a great looking stick, and it *doesn't* look like your standard flight stick. I bought the T16k v1 back in 2013 when you could finally fly your ships in SC, then upgraded to the Space Sim Duo around Luminalia 2949. I've been happy with them but if I could afford it, I'd definitely be upgrading to some VKB Gladiators. I had halfway been thinking that the Turtle Beach might be a potential upgrade but I don't think they're there yet.
The reason I checked this video is because the stick reminded me of my vintage Gravis joystick. Similar rectangular base, sleek stick. While that stick is from an analog time and therefore was limited in the amount of buttons and whatnot, at least it had spring tension adjustment built into it. Thank you for this honest review, sad I'll have to pass up on this one, spring tension is so very important to get right.
I agree there are a lot of cool new features on this stick that I simply haven't seen before on a piece of gear that wasn't designed for construction or some other bespoke purpose. If they can bring on a seasoned flight stick designer I think it would be game changing. Kudos to Turtle Beach, hopefully they keep their heads up on this one and stay in the game.
Here's to hoping they'll release a new version correcting the issues you mentioned. I know a lot of people that would jump on these for something like star citizen. They could really fill the entry /mid level market with some cool new features if the stick itself were better.
great review. The strong tendency to center might actually benefit this stick as an off-hand stick for dual stick setups. Activating strafe from one side to the other would benefit greatly with a smaller deadzone and the extra aim features by mouse control would work on the off-stick while you fly with the main one.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I actually meant that if you are dexterous enough to individually be able to control mouse look with the stick on the left while aiming on a right stick, the mouse options on this stick would be good. That said stick and mouse setup would benefit as well for the same reason. The lack of accuracy won't matter for your off-hand if it's really not needed.
I’ve had one since they came out and I really like it, but it’s not durable. The very first day the left throttle handle came off and split in half. Then a couple of weeks later my stepson was using it and the handrest broke in half. A month later the top left hat switch literally snapped off at the plastic stem it was sitting on.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 yep. And the hand rest actually snapped in half and had a sharp edge to it that scratched my stepson’s arm. He was in a PvP dogfight in Star Citizen and was probably putting some pressure on it, but still this shouldn’t happen. I’m going to reach out to Turtle Beach about it. I had to superglue the left throttle piece back together.
I've said for a while now that a track pad or a track point would be very useful on a flight stick. Glad to see someone got the implementation down well on a real product. The inverted tension curve is a straight up shame though.
SO I actually have one of these expressly for Star Citizen, where I mostly focus on Combat. But it is used as a second stick used as the throttle, and strafe, and using the twist for roll, where my Primary stick for Pitch and Yaw is the S part of my Warthog HOTAS. Which lines up fairly directly with your assessment. I use the flightstick for everything EXCEPT aiming!
I love mine. I have been using it on my Steam Deck, to play Ace Combat 7 and Project Wingman. I just hope it gets a throttle add-on. As for it's strong tension, I actually had to start working out and after a few weeks of weight lifting it was easier on me
Thank you for your review. If they fix that centering issue, i'll probably buy one. But as it is, as you mention it, yeah i just can't deal with that. I get fatigued very easily. So if you, someone that uses joysticks often are getting fatigued by it, as was obvious, then i just wouldn't be able to handle it.
This is a brilliant review and I'm very glad I randomly clicked into it. I have a car racing sim rig that I also want to start using for flight and/or space sim/arcade/simcade games, and I'm still getting up to speed on what tech is hot or not. I think I'll have to go for the VKB Gladiator NXT stuff - it seems the cheapest of the "actually decent" bunch. (My car racing wheelbase is a Fanatec DD1 so I'm not shy of spending more on quality kit, but I just don't know yet how much I'll play the flight and space sims, compared to just using my old wired Xbox 360 controller. And I don't yet own a VR solution either... and I want to upgrade my GPU to an AMD 7900 XTX this year too....!)
Wow. This thing is pretty cool. I'm not exactly sure what you would use this for on an Xbox. But I bet it's pretty fantastic for whatever they got going on console.
Serious idea here: A review series called “Can I air to air refuel in DCS with this joystick?” The fine and precise movements like that are the pinnacle of flight stick performance. You build the stick features around a good performing flight stick. They definitely missed their mark here but get points for being innovative. Obviously I’m biased because I love my VIRPIL products but a lot of the companies need to step up their cam and sensors to the highest priority.
I'm happy to see midrange products. But I gotta include this. As someone with acidic sweat (I turn cheap rings green in minutes) and a habit of playing for hours at a time daily ... the coating is a killer for me. Not going to even try it. EVERY phone/stick/controller I use with that kind of coating is gummy way too quickly and I've literally stripped the legends off of keyboards with it. My VKB sticks don't have the coating but where it *did* have rubber pads attached I manage to have the adhesive on those peel off after a couple of months. This type of coating just has no place on things that have constant skin contact.
I had the same problem with the T16000M FCS while playing Rise Of Flight a few years ago. The stick was so hard to move away from the center position that my hand was getting tired moving it and difficult to make precise targeting on a moving target. I got a bit used of it after a while but it took some effort all the time. Eventually I had to stop using it because the Z axes had a malfunction and the rudder of my airplane was moving by itself making it impossible to fly properly.
That's a shame. I had pretty high hopes for Turtle Beach having used some of their products in the past. I'd be intrested to see a V2 of this stick with some of the issues addressed. Specifically the cam issue! If/when they send you a potential V2 Noobifier I'd love to hear about it as I'm in the market for new sticks. That touchpad really does look extremely useful!
@@aquamich129 well then they shall do a V2 but instead of calling it V2, they call it "reV3rsed" and leave everybody wondering about a potential V2 and "is this V3? how??" altogether^^
I bought this as a left stick after this review. While waiting for My right stick I have been using it as a solo right. I had to add a little bit of cushion on the hand rest to be comfortable, but I have been enjoying it so far.
In terms of control, I'd like to know how it compares to other's at that price point, such as the T.16k. Also, as I don't understand the use case for it, why include a sound card?
from a PC users perspective, most (not all) of the features are mostly gimmicks. If you are using a PC, you probably aren't going to use the sound card, the X box features, and honestly all the tuning features are set and forget, so having them on the stick itsself IMO is a waste of cost. They would've been better off investing that money in a better gimbal. The mouse is neat, and I think it is probably the best of the features added. The screen it an utter waste of space and is really only useful for consoles. They could've added more hats instead. The Bluetooth connectivity is neat, and could certainly be useful.
I'd kinda like that video explaining the issues with the inverted V for sensitivity. It feels like there are a lot of applications where finer control would actually be quite nice (docking in space comes immediately to mind, in games like KSP for example). That said, I think the real miss here is that they don't have a way to change it. Even just having "inverted", "neutral" and "normal" would be a good thing. Because, while I feel I can see uses for that sensitivity map, I know that's not going to be every situation. Being able to flip back and forth would be awful nice as a result.
7:51 - Make sure you tell everyone that's $170 in CANADIAN dollars. It's normally $130(US), but periodically goes on sale for $110(US). It's actually on sale for that right now (27 March 2023), btw. BTW, the one issue with the stick being "stiff" when moving off center seems to be one which resolves itself with a few days' use, as the stick gets broken in. Mine are fine and one of the product reviewers on Amazon mentioned watching another TH-cam evaluation where the person doing the video confirmed he was told about the break in period by Turtle Beach and confirmed it with his own stick, within the first couple weeks of use.
Since my last comment, I've "spoken" (online messages) with several other owners/users of this stick. Every one of them says their sticks got a lot smoother with use, as they got broken in. You may not have used yours enough, during that time. Personally, I LOVE my two. Yes, they're not perfect. I would love a two-stage trigger AND a thumb button (which I use as "push to talk"), but if those are my biggest gripes, I'm good with that.
@@odonovan What a crock of shit. All other joysticks tested, Start Good and Continue to be good. This is still a heavily flawed product, despite you becoming accustomed to its faults. I do appreciate you taking the time to post your comments though.
Interesting product and I can see it maybe being of interest with the casual gaming crowd who want something a bit "cooler" than the standard offerings, but it's hard to see why you would choose this over a VKB gladiator for the same money if it's the precision and performance you are looking for.
I think any joystick review should start with stating what sensors are used for joystick axis! Specifically what type of sensor used. Potentiometer or Hall sensor. "Great sensor" or "precise sensor" is not enough. If I hear potentiometer, I can just forget it at that and stop there.. Manufacturers also should clearly state it!
These features on my VKB would make it the perfect stick. Hopefully they can iterate but I've found manufacturers zeroing in on console don't often get sticks right. Thanks for the awesome facts about the stick. You continue to do great work, Noob.
November 2023. Some questions: Will the spring get smoother after a time of use? Is the spring too stiff? Is the rudders movement "too short"? Can we have some minireviews from you that have had it for a while? =)
Good review! It sounds/looks like most of those concerns could be addressed with a firmware update... and I think that the strong joystick reentering profile might be something I'd actually like, especially for a left-hand stick, where drift may not be desirable. Perhaps they can release a cam or something as a mod kit? One feature I think I'd like to see is the ability to use that ring as a bind as well as using the LCD for a locked-in feature, such as current waypoint or tied into the comms system to identify speakers... I used to use my g15 for that way back when, playing eve online. It's useful to have without taking up screen real estate, especially in a larger org. The ring, if bindable, could be used in SC as your comms select... although I think that the scroll wheel might be best for that, with the button used as the push-to-talk. One thing they might also want to consider might be removable sticks, with an offer of current shapes and sizes, which may be more comfortable for longer play... ambidextrous sticks tend not to be so comfortable as the specialists, I find. Perhaps, too, the ability to remove one or both throttles (plug and bolt-on?) for when you're using two of them and run out of uses for 4 throttles... perhaps then, addon modules with extra buttons to replace one, or both, of the throttles? Lastly, can you remove the button silicone to customise the text, or are they fixed? How about colour change with status? If not, might be two more things to consider. My memory has problems remembering what I binded all my buttons to... any labelling is a big help. Excellent review again Noobifier, keep it up. Sorry for all the questions, but I'm actually tempted to get one after this, to go alongside my warthog stick... instead of getting the throttle.
I use Dual for SC. I don't have the benefit of having tested multiple joysticks. They worked just fine for bounty hunting and mining and general flight controls. Vital the issue has been how star citizen reads the inputs through Microsoft. I would expect to be able to program the hat switches on the thumb better. The throttles are excellent for mining
The stick movement sounds a lot like the x52/x55/x56 saitek/logitech one, which I really don't like, you need a lot of force to get out of the center spot, and once you're out of if the force drops sharply, it makes fine control awful.
at the moment I'm very interested into getting HOTAS for myself. Looking around for different joysticks and throttles and all possible combinations. There's lack of (NONE) videos about HOTAS for SC. I'm not bothered in old videos that are few years old as they outdated. After watching your video I wont be buying this Flying stick due to its tension at centre "feature". Looking for something quite opposed to that. Thank You for this video. Edit: Would be awesome if you could do up to date on the market best HOTAS and HOTATS for Star Citizen.
I'm not sure I'm understanding as there are a ton of videos regarding hotas for SC. Given that doing pvp flight combat is going to be a necessity sometimes most people prefer to go dual sticks for SC. But there's still a bunch of videos regarding hotas for SC, a bunch within the last year and at least some over the past few months...
@@Vinwelder from like year ago or before. Tech going forward (but also user experience and honest reviews after year or so of use) but there's none videos regards reliability or latest tech
@@bartim0re487 That's because, honestly, there hasn't been any movement in the last 5 years or so. Gimbal tech peaked a long time ago, and most of the high end gimbals are actually better and more accurate than what you'll find in real life GA aircraft. VPC 50cm2/50cm3 (these are the same except the cm3 has a tunable damper clutch), VKB Gunfighter, those are your best gimbals. Step down to VKB Gladiator for your midrange, and down to TM T16000 for your low end. Grab w/e pedals you can afford if you need them. That's it, every "what joysticks for SC HOSAS should I get?" thread can be answered this way and it hasn't changed much/at all since SC's inception. If you're dead set on HOTAS not HOSAS (dedicated throttle vs a 2nd stick as an omnithrottle for true 6dof), you're looking at the Warthog or modded Cougar throttles. Just go double stick (HOSAS). It's better, and easier. Noobifier has a video on the Gladiator where he specifically discusses build material longevity. The higher end gimbals are all metal and will last longer than your wrist. I edited this like 5 times, think I'm done now...
One thing I always noticed about the glossy plastic finish like they have up top is it always looks dirty and nasty after limited use, even tho its just finger prints. Awesome thorough review!
I picked up one of these to pair with my gf's T.16000M without high expectations, but I just assumed/hoped the VelocityOne would be the better option for the right side. As soon as you started describing the issue it clicked for me exactly why it feels weird to use, and I think the explanation about aim assist on console might have some merit to it, bad choice if intentional. Like a lot of others have commented I'm going to swap it to the left hand where the stiffness might be beneficial for strafing using a HOSAS setup. The spring idea is promising for either being a fix for the excessive stiffness for pitch and roll, or possibly to have different stiffness for strafing back and forward than strafing left to right. Either way a cheap spring might be a great v1.1 compared to a full v2 retune.
I don't have a lot of experience with a variety of joysticks, but your description of the stick profile makes it sound very strange. I can't imagine how it would feel to use a stick like that. It seems like it would be totally counterintuitive, even when you think of a controller stick or something. I'm still trying to figure out if I should just get another T16000M or look into a more expensive option to move into a dual joystick setup. I was kind of hoping this would be an option, but i can't imagine getting used to that.
Thanks you saved my ass i already had 2 of them in my basket but i order 2 Gladiator NXT Evo now ... i dont wont train my arm muscles while plaing a flight simulator...
I can see how for some the tension issue may be a thing. In general though, I now have two of these and find them excellent value for money. They are not high end, but they sit nicely in the middle between cheap and low/mid tier..
This looks like a good option as a left stick for me, I’m not sure if the issue with the cam profile will as big a problem with it as a movement stick. In fact I’m wondering if the inverse cam profile may be nice because it make it easy to keep it at full actuation for extended periods of time. Is anyone else able to weigh in on this?
Computer peripheral companies don't realize how far you can go with simplicity and quality materials. Part of it is the marketing wonks that know, sadly, that "gamers" want lights and feature bloat. Seems like they haven't got the memo that there's a distinction between "gamer" and "simmer", the latter of whom should be their target with this product.
Not sure if I totally agree with this, after just coming from FS XPO alot of booths used this, and I myself thought it was comfortable to use. But to keep in mind it's a fraction of the cost of other high end flight sticks. Where this price point is at I think it's very ideal and we'll worth it
I bought this stick on preorder and had it day one. I was planning on buying two to replace my twin t-16000m set up. within 10 minutes of moving the stick , before even plugging it in, Iknew it was going back. The tension around center made it impossible to do anything accurately like aim. Plus I didn't like the small amount of throw. The t-16000m also has a slightly heavy center but was easily fixed with the zip tie mod. T-16000m right stick + zip tie mod is still untouchable it even beats the vkb in terms of smoothness around center (no hump) and has twice the throw diameter. Now , I'm going to watch your review and see if you thought the same. Edit: Another thing I didn't like was the ergonomics. The t16 whupps it there as well. plus the rectangular shape of the base combined with the tension made it impossible to move without bolting it down.
Spot On Review!! I 've encountered the same problems since I am mostly into spacesims!! Not something you can't get used to, but it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, if you consider the build quality of this joystick, especially in this price range! Although I do not consider it a total loss, since one of the reasons that I bought it, is Xbox compatibility!! Paired with an Xbox series S and a Gamepass subscription, it's a very cost effective way to enter into Flight Simulator!! I do not think, I will retire my Logitech 3D anytime soon!! (Although I am very tempted by the Gladiator NXT EVO ‘SPACE COMBAT EDITION’ series of joysticks )
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I did some testing and it seems that you have to set the profile to "Precision" (Stick Performance --> Profiles --> Precision) when playing space sims!!! What do you think?
I wonder if the tightness of the stick would make it a good upgrade from the t16000m as a left stick (or which ever side you use to control strafe) in SC for Racing. I find I run into trouble with the t16000m imparting tiny amounts of left and right strafe when attempting to hold steady in a straight strafe/fully throttling forward. or if my arm would just get tired after a long race... Great review
I have to say the stick seemed impressive. Maybe I didnt fully understand your critical feedback at the end, but I didnt see it as a deal breaker. I prefer a stiffer stick that fights me to center. For me, looking for a SC dual stick rig, it seemed feature rich, button rich and not sure why it would not be accurate. For me, what worries is the fact you call it entry level at $129 (current price) and I need two. What are your thoughts of this being paired with an X-55 HOTAS? Using the X-55 stick for right hand and the turtle beach for left.
holy moly. I didnt know this one existed. Has a few features that i have always wanted. A firmware update to make it a little nicer and i might just pick one up. I think the stiff centre actually makes it great for the off-hand using it for manu thrusters.
thank you for this great review as i am looking to swap my hotas thruster out for a second stick for star citizen. while my current hotas is the cheapest on the market (PXN brand) i have come to love it and through trial and error have the flight stick setup in manner that is consistent and suitable for my level of flying, however its lack of buttons for keybinds has me constantly hunting down keyboard buttons while trying to do ai combat in SC. this turtle beach is in my price range and was thinking of using it to replace my thruster. while you stated that it could be much better as a main stick, what are you thoughts as a potential second stick for a entry level SC pilot? and do you have any reccomendations perhaps if this TB is just not worth it?
wait, so with the inverted response curve, you're saying that you have the most resistance near center and much less resistance as you near the end of the throw? that seems unlikely. i have a gladiator NXT and there's a significant center detente on all axes and resistance is constant to the end of throw in any direction. that would look like a little "v" with a horizontal line on either side. would that be more accurate? or is it really getting less tension towards the end of the throw?
Noobifier, thank you for this exhaustive review. I was considering this stick to use in a space game but i may have to rethink it. One thing sir, why do you always say "Comment your comments in the comments" and not just "Comment below"? I have really always wondered about that, is it like your trademark slogan? Again thank you for this review, and bless you from one veteran (US Navy) to another!
For anyone who wants to replace the original spring with a similar size or experiment on how differences change the centering feel, the measurements are:
17mm Length
18mm Outer Diameter
1.4mm Wire Diameter
shorten the spring by 40% helps a lot
@@rboettger wouldnt shortening the spring make it pull even harder?
Update: I traded this for a VKB Gladiator and have NOT looked back on this Turtle Beach since.
The spring is not worth replacing since it's not nearly as moddable as the Thrustmaster Warthog or even the X56 gimbal + large spring system. I'm also extremely disappointed they released the Flight Deck which does fix all of the problems this stick has, but at a price you can get a full VKB Gladiator + STECS or a Gunfighter base with the MCG for only $20 ($420) more.
In terms of self enjoyment and practical usability, this stick will NOT last for a long time because of the many poor design choices they made on it that Noob does touch up on in this video.
I owned this flightstick since August 2023 with 200 hours played: 90% of my gameplay is flight sims with 10% fighter jets, and the performance of the gimbal as described in this video with the force deflection through the center made flying airliners much less fun than it should be. The complete lack of adjustability of curves on this where I can only modify it in its software with generic presets that are Precision, Linear, and Fast felt too restrictive to their settings in finding a feel that was somewhat realistic. Although the Gladiator does have a center detent with its plastic cam and the EVO with clutch dampeners with lighter springs does help mitigate it, it is a massive night and day difference in quality from Turtle Beach's gimbal.
The trim wheel axis on this is completely useless in MSFS when it refuses to center or work as an encoder since it saves the value after every flight. The buttons B16, B17, and the mouse cursor trackpad surrounding the trim wheel are very poorly laid out and are feel very cheap when they press from the lightest touch. A Logitech Extreme 3D Pro or a Thrustmaster T80 racing wheel for half or quarter of the price of this stick uses much better tactile buttons on their units than this.
Twist axis on this is also subpar compared to VKB's twist adapter since it's angle range is only half of it, which makes it harder to do precise movements even with a decent hall sensor.
Software for VKB does take a while to learn since it's not intuitive, but VKB has posted their tutorials on TH-cam and show it is very powerful like Joystick Gremlin, and certainly much more than nothing which this flight stick has. With VKB's software you can setup a trackpad, pov hat, and cockpit movement axis all in ONE ministick with the SCG through "Shift" and "Subshift" modes as well as having a center push button to double the use of the same ministick as a Analog Hat Switch instead.
Lesson learned, skip the Flight Stick entirely and get a VKB Gladiator NXT EVO with the Premium Space Combat grip and you guaranteed will not regret it.
I was seriously considering this stick, but having Cerebral Palsy and hearing about stick tension problems is EXACTLY WHAT I personally needed to know... deep thanks for your honesty!
Glad I could help!
@@NOOBIFIER1337 you usually do sir!
@@elwinbrake2695 I think you might like VKB's products, especially the older Gladiator MK.II base. It has a very smooth center transition. Unfortunately it is sold out from the official store.
Just get a VKB Gladiator NXT.
Tbh even without motor control problems, its really irritating to have sticks like that. I almost feel like a shill saying that, considering the other comments, but a VKB Glad was a massive upgrade. Its the cheapest way to get an actually great joystick. Virpil is dope with their full metal construction, but theyre like 2.5 times as expensive.
I value your integrity. Keep it up. Very thorough analysis and well explained.
Agreed
High respect for your technical and methodical approach. The companies who make these products are wise enough to ask for your review. I do hope they're wise enough to listen to it as well.
Hopefully TB will take this as constructive criticism and make the necessary adjustments. This thing has a lot of potential
Agreed... a mk II version, ironing out all the niggles that their customers find with it, could be one of the all-time greats... it sounds like a go-to stick already.
A lot of the criticisms are going my head, I still kinda really want this one.
@@Kinzokugia, from what others have said, the stick gets a lot smoother with use, within the first couple weeks, as it gets broken in.
@@Kinzokugia Get yourself a VKB Gladiator NXT Premium. Only a bit more expensive, but its got 90% of the joystick feel a stick can offer, and like >20 buttons. Like, I didnt even know that sticks can feel so much better than the cheap ball/cup construction, until I got that thing.
If you wanna go budget, the VO Stick seems to handle a lot worse than a T-16000M, to be honest. A T16 is actually pretty good for a 'cheap' joystick, take it with a TWCS and you got a real HOTAS setup.
They released the Flight Deck full HOTAS earlier this year which does come packed with even more features like a full digital touch screen instead of a gear rotary wheel, and better buttons + triggers. But the gimbal and spring system is the same as this for more than triple the MSRP. The grip is also easily hot-swappable IF they ever release any other grips.
Since its still new, a lot of people have been having many issues with the software especially the full digital screen.
Overall not worth the features with this brand unless that's exactly what you watched to have that much better joysticks with metal cam gimbals don't provide.
I have one, and I absolutely love it. I have been simming for almost 40 years. Tried them all.
40 years? What a rookie you need to pump those numbers up if you want bragging rights.
I absolutely love this stick. Bought it for my on the go Steam deck set up and it is fabulous. Has a nice quality feel to it I have no regrets. I don't think the tension is that bad. I have a full Honeycomb yoke, TPM, pedals and Propwash simulation panels so I'm used to a full set up but this makes flying on the go awesome with the 2 throttles and trim wheel with the STEAM deck. Was on sale too!
First time I have seen your video. So much respect for you and the way you present the information. This is why when I watch tech videos I tend to stick to only a very small group of people. You are added to that list! Great info! You and JerryRigEverything have a very similar delivery and it is like music to my ears. Thanks my dude!
Agreed, I was about to pull the trigger on this, but this being the only review of several I watched that talked about aiming & shooting, saved me some cash big time. I immediately subbed after watching.
The centering characterics are 99% based on the gimbal construction. It comes with all the problems of a cup and ball design. A softer spring could solve the centering force problem but will introduce other headaches. TB could have used a better gimbal construction (scissor for example) but that would probably increase the height of the base which wouldn't look as sleek anymore.
Nice review btw Noob! Thanks!
Thing is, you can still do a lot better than VO. While Im always gonna be annoyed about the T-16000s Z-axis sensor "breaking" for no reason, that joystick is way better with centering and precision than most other cheap sticks I tried. The VO Stick seems to be much worse compared to that, and thats at 3 times the T16s price point!
Scissor construction is probably much more complex and expensive. But then again, a VKB Prem is like 200-220 bucks, and its got almost everything you could wish for on a stick.
@@termitreter6545 ofc it's more expensive, yep. But absolutely worth the investment. It I'd go cup and ball I'd go really cheap like 3D Pro or maybe t16000 or save up and get a scissor based stick
I didn't understand a lot of those words at the end there, but I'm glad I stuck around for it. The stick is awesome, I would definitely consider it, but it sounds like long term it might have me building bad habits.
Thanks for the review o7
I appreciate you taking the time to watch. O7
Not bad habits, think of it this way:
In a flight sim that requires you to aim, you want small movement to be easy (with less force), big movements to be hard.
With this stick, you put a lot of force to move the small movements away from center, then suddenly the force required to move the stick drops off and you pushs it all the way instead of the precise movement you want.
I appreciate the honesty and value your integrity. I find your videos to be informative and entertaining and support your decisions made in your style of presentation. (As evidenced by the 12+ minutes spent watching this review.) Thank you for this review, I am happy with my dual TM16000Ms but am always on the lookout for the "next best thing". I hope they take your constructive criticism and provide us with that soon.
I appreciate that!
The Precision Mode Sniper mode thing actually makes a TON of sense on a dual stick setup if you think about it. On the left stick one of the axes will inevitably be your strafe l/r f/b, which means that when parking that precision will effectively put you in "parking mode" which is honestly kind of sick
As always, no BS ! We value your integrity, that's why we trust you and your opinions.
Thanks for the great work you !
And there it is (starts @7:52), the number one reason we all hold Noobifier in such high regard: Brutal Honesty.
Thank you, Sir. Once again you bring us the facts and no bull. Bless you!
Tnx for the review! It was such an amazing innovating product and i almost bought it right away... lucky i waited for your honest take on its performance
Tnx a lot for keeping straight and honest with the reviews, lets hope they fix the joystick part later (an important part if you ask me)
This is probably one of the more interesting developments in flight sticks I have seen in a while. I love the bluetooth connectivity to a phone and the LCD, great features! Im not giving up my Warthog any time soon, but this is a nice entry level option for sure.
I was gutted to find it was this good with such an odd construction.
Idk if anyone here actually flies or you're just all simmers but this stick being harder toward the center and lighter at the ends.. is actually how flight sticks feel in almost every plane.. ever. so that's actually an advantage as well. It's only a disadvantage because you're used to sim flight sticks being wrong lol.
That's the truth, and I think that was the goal they were aiming for. Training flight simulators have stiff controls that mimic the aircraft being simulated, including the feedback and warnings. The twisting of the stick for rudder actuation is a good cross feed (possibly realistic) for those that don't have rudder pedals, but it can be locked for those that do have rudder pedals that won't be using that feature. I'll be receiving mine tomorrow, so I have the weekend and two days off to figure this puppy out. This is gonna be fun!
One guy on here had cerebral palsy so the stiff stick isn’t good for him, its not all about sim sticks being wrong
I really hope they do a v2 of the stick, I love their aesthetic and that thumb track pad is a huge innovation I really hope becomes ubiquitous, and like their Yoke the plethora of programmable buttons is a plus.
Yea same, that thumb track pad is exactly what I need for things like strafe etc in space games.
@@Malakie Tbf if you got the space you might want to consider HOTAS.
Something like a TWCS throttle has an analog sitck at its back, which can be comfortably used for stuff like strafing.
For space stuff theres also dual stick solutoin, though they can get expensive.
@@termitreter6545 I already use HOTAS. Looking for something better.
Thanks for the excellent review!!
Hopefully TB will revise their product
I hope so too!
Further proof that @TheNOOBIFIER1337 has the utmost respect for his audience by keeping it real and honest. Great review! This product has potential - maybe they'll reach out to you for some product testing on the 2nd gen? As always - WEEEEOOOOOOO!
For anyone who is interested, I also found that the tension on the stick is not only high, but also not very linear. Its not fun to use in ED or SC. However, it is really easy to replace that center spring with a softer one. I used a spring from one of my RC cars, I had laying around spare. Any 20mm diameter spring will do, which gives you the softness you like. Problem now is that it feels really nice and soft and allows for smooth flights, the stick travel is just way too short for me.
I will investigate
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Just 8 screws on the base cover and 4 screws holding the center metal plate, which is actually the spring assembly. But be mindful of the center plate orientation when you put it back together, it goes a specific way (small guide holes on the corners).
And just like that, my hope is restored : )@@renesakata1737
I might have to give this a try... The stiffness always bothered me with this stick. Now to find a spring that would work
Seeing ive only played the Ace Combat series & a couple space combat titles on consoles, when you say the stick travel is too short, you talking about moving your plane instantly from barely moving the stick?
Hopefully TB will take this to heart and release an updated version much like Logitech did with the G502 mouse and switches.
Excellent review man, there's a reason I've subscribed to you for years now
Really appreciate the way you approach product reviews. Bravo
I have been using this product for over a month now and as far as the comments on some of it's challenges I would have to say I agree with them.
I really appreciate the extra features. Makes it stand out from the other already entrenched brands.
love this stick , the stiff feel of the stick gives me a better feel of almost hydraulic based flight and in my case better control as I tend to heavy hand every flight stick . only real issue I had with the stick is in SC set up being not all of the sticks toggle hats show up as options to use or set up.
Oh god tell me more! I really want to love this thing but the aiming & reticule performance shown in this upload killed it for me.
I always felt like the t1600 is too sloppy and soft for me, I wonder if this resistance would feel better because like you I def heavy hand my sticks and this has better options on stick for buttons givin they all actually show up.
Your honesty is greatly appreciated.
I really appreciate the review. I really hope a V2 Turtle Beach is suitable for space flight games. It's such a cool concept, a great looking stick, and it *doesn't* look like your standard flight stick. I bought the T16k v1 back in 2013 when you could finally fly your ships in SC, then upgraded to the Space Sim Duo around Luminalia 2949. I've been happy with them but if I could afford it, I'd definitely be upgrading to some VKB Gladiators. I had halfway been thinking that the Turtle Beach might be a potential upgrade but I don't think they're there yet.
The reason I checked this video is because the stick reminded me of my vintage Gravis joystick. Similar rectangular base, sleek stick. While that stick is from an analog time and therefore was limited in the amount of buttons and whatnot, at least it had spring tension adjustment built into it.
Thank you for this honest review, sad I'll have to pass up on this one, spring tension is so very important to get right.
I agree there are a lot of cool new features on this stick that I simply haven't seen before on a piece of gear that wasn't designed for construction or some other bespoke purpose. If they can bring on a seasoned flight stick designer I think it would be game changing. Kudos to Turtle Beach, hopefully they keep their heads up on this one and stay in the game.
Here's to hoping they'll release a new version correcting the issues you mentioned. I know a lot of people that would jump on these for something like star citizen. They could really fill the entry /mid level market with some cool new features if the stick itself were better.
great review.
The strong tendency to center might actually benefit this stick as an off-hand stick for dual stick setups. Activating strafe from one side to the other would benefit greatly with a smaller deadzone and the extra aim features by mouse control would work on the off-stick while you fly with the main one.
Interesting. I will test a mouse stick config
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I actually meant that if you are dexterous enough to individually be able to control mouse look with the stick on the left while aiming on a right stick, the mouse options on this stick would be good.
That said stick and mouse setup would benefit as well for the same reason. The lack of accuracy won't matter for your off-hand if it's really not needed.
I’ve had one since they came out and I really like it, but it’s not durable. The very first day the left throttle handle came off and split in half. Then a couple of weeks later my stepson was using it and the handrest broke in half. A month later the top left hat switch literally snapped off at the plastic stem it was sitting on.
WTF
Did Turtle Beach do anything to help out with the issues you've had?
@@NOOBIFIER1337 yep. And the hand rest actually snapped in half and had a sharp edge to it that scratched my stepson’s arm. He was in a PvP dogfight in Star Citizen and was probably putting some pressure on it, but still this shouldn’t happen. I’m going to reach out to Turtle Beach about it. I had to superglue the left throttle piece back together.
@@spaced-cadet there is nothing that can be done. There are no adjustments possible. No tuning possible
@@spaced-cadet I’m reaching out to them now. We shall see what they say and I’ll update here. I may make my own video about the issues I’ve had.
Cool knew the answer to my question by 0:11
Simply not enough buttons while keeping your hands always-on-stick
I've said for a while now that a track pad or a track point would be very useful on a flight stick. Glad to see someone got the implementation down well on a real product. The inverted tension curve is a straight up shame though.
I fully agree with your assessment. I put it on the shelf after several frustrating hours and went back to my old trusted 3D Pro.
SO I actually have one of these expressly for Star Citizen, where I mostly focus on Combat.
But it is used as a second stick used as the throttle, and strafe, and using the twist for roll, where my Primary stick for Pitch and Yaw is the S part of my Warthog HOTAS.
Which lines up fairly directly with your assessment. I use the flightstick for everything EXCEPT aiming!
Good review. I learned a lot and I'm excited how the industry innovates while focusing on quality stick first.
I love mine. I have been using it on my Steam Deck, to play Ace Combat 7 and Project Wingman. I just hope it gets a throttle add-on.
As for it's strong tension, I actually had to start working out and after a few weeks of weight lifting it was easier on me
Thank you for your review. If they fix that centering issue, i'll probably buy one. But as it is, as you mention it, yeah i just can't deal with that. I get fatigued very easily. So if you, someone that uses joysticks often are getting fatigued by it, as was obvious, then i just wouldn't be able to handle it.
A truly exemplary review. I wish all products received such an in depth review.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the feedback and support
This is a brilliant review and I'm very glad I randomly clicked into it. I have a car racing sim rig that I also want to start using for flight and/or space sim/arcade/simcade games, and I'm still getting up to speed on what tech is hot or not. I think I'll have to go for the VKB Gladiator NXT stuff - it seems the cheapest of the "actually decent" bunch. (My car racing wheelbase is a Fanatec DD1 so I'm not shy of spending more on quality kit, but I just don't know yet how much I'll play the flight and space sims, compared to just using my old wired Xbox 360 controller. And I don't yet own a VR solution either... and I want to upgrade my GPU to an AMD 7900 XTX this year too....!)
great review. honest and as respectful as possible
Very innovative product. Thanks for your review and other thoughts, Noobifier!
Wow. This thing is pretty cool. I'm not exactly sure what you would use this for on an Xbox. But I bet it's pretty fantastic for whatever they got going on console.
Serious idea here: A review series called “Can I air to air refuel in DCS with this joystick?” The fine and precise movements like that are the pinnacle of flight stick performance. You build the stick features around a good performing flight stick. They definitely missed their mark here but get points for being innovative.
Obviously I’m biased because I love my VIRPIL products but a lot of the companies need to step up their cam and sensors to the highest priority.
I'm happy to see midrange products. But I gotta include this. As someone with acidic sweat (I turn cheap rings green in minutes) and a habit of playing for hours at a time daily ... the coating is a killer for me. Not going to even try it. EVERY phone/stick/controller I use with that kind of coating is gummy way too quickly and I've literally stripped the legends off of keyboards with it. My VKB sticks don't have the coating but where it *did* have rubber pads attached I manage to have the adhesive on those peel off after a couple of months. This type of coating just has no place on things that have constant skin contact.
I had the same problem with the T16000M FCS while playing Rise Of Flight a few years ago.
The stick was so hard to move away from the center position that my hand was getting tired moving it and difficult to make precise targeting on a moving target.
I got a bit used of it after a while but it took some effort all the time.
Eventually I had to stop using it because the Z axes had a malfunction and the rudder of my airplane was moving by itself making it impossible to fly properly.
That's a shame. I had pretty high hopes for Turtle Beach having used some of their products in the past. I'd be intrested to see a V2 of this stick with some of the issues addressed. Specifically the cam issue! If/when they send you a potential V2 Noobifier I'd love to hear about it as I'm in the market for new sticks. That touchpad really does look extremely useful!
At 129€, V2 would be an insult to all buyers of first gen! reminds me of the poor work from winwing who comes with product revision on a yealry basis
@DownloadPizza there is a difference between a bad feeling button or some material that feels cheap and the basic fundamental behavior of the product
@@aquamich129 well then they shall do a V2 but instead of calling it V2, they call it "reV3rsed" and leave everybody wondering about a potential V2 and "is this V3? how??" altogether^^
I bought this as a left stick after this review. While waiting for My right stick I have been using it as a solo right. I had to add a little bit of cushion on the hand rest to be comfortable, but I have been enjoying it so far.
looks like as cool little joystick. I hope they continue to improve it.
They should hire you as QA consultant before releasing the thing. Sounds like it could be a good product...in a couple generations.
It could be the best entry if it was retuned
In terms of control, I'd like to know how it compares to other's at that price point, such as the T.16k. Also, as I don't understand the use case for it, why include a sound card?
I appreciate the honest review.
from a PC users perspective, most (not all) of the features are mostly gimmicks. If you are using a PC, you probably aren't going to use the sound card, the X box features, and honestly all the tuning features are set and forget, so having them on the stick itsself IMO is a waste of cost. They would've been better off investing that money in a better gimbal.
The mouse is neat, and I think it is probably the best of the features added. The screen it an utter waste of space and is really only useful for consoles. They could've added more hats instead.
The Bluetooth connectivity is neat, and could certainly be useful.
There is no world where I'd pick this stick over a VKB Gladiator.
I'd kinda like that video explaining the issues with the inverted V for sensitivity. It feels like there are a lot of applications where finer control would actually be quite nice (docking in space comes immediately to mind, in games like KSP for example).
That said, I think the real miss here is that they don't have a way to change it. Even just having "inverted", "neutral" and "normal" would be a good thing. Because, while I feel I can see uses for that sensitivity map, I know that's not going to be every situation. Being able to flip back and forth would be awful nice as a result.
I would have never expected Turtle Beach to make a joystick. Great video.
7:51 - Make sure you tell everyone that's $170 in CANADIAN dollars. It's normally $130(US), but periodically goes on sale for $110(US). It's actually on sale for that right now (27 March 2023), btw.
BTW, the one issue with the stick being "stiff" when moving off center seems to be one which resolves itself with a few days' use, as the stick gets broken in. Mine are fine and one of the product reviewers on Amazon mentioned watching another TH-cam evaluation where the person doing the video confirmed he was told about the break in period by Turtle Beach and confirmed it with his own stick, within the first couple weeks of use.
It does not resolve itself. I used the stick for a month
Since my last comment, I've "spoken" (online messages) with several other owners/users of this stick. Every one of them says their sticks got a lot smoother with use, as they got broken in. You may not have used yours enough, during that time. Personally, I LOVE my two. Yes, they're not perfect. I would love a two-stage trigger AND a thumb button (which I use as "push to talk"), but if those are my biggest gripes, I'm good with that.
@@odonovan What a crock of shit. All other joysticks tested, Start Good and Continue to be good. This is still a heavily flawed product, despite you becoming accustomed to its faults. I do appreciate you taking the time to post your comments though.
I've learned to always wait for the second gen of any new product.
Interesting product and I can see it maybe being of interest with the casual gaming crowd who want something a bit "cooler" than the standard offerings, but it's hard to see why you would choose this over a VKB gladiator for the same money if it's the precision and performance you are looking for.
I think any joystick review should start with stating what sensors are used for joystick axis! Specifically what type of sensor used. Potentiometer or Hall sensor. "Great sensor" or "precise sensor" is not enough. If I hear potentiometer, I can just forget it at that and stop there..
Manufacturers also should clearly state it!
They are all Hall effect now. So, what’s the point
These features on my VKB would make it the perfect stick. Hopefully they can iterate but I've found manufacturers zeroing in on console don't often get sticks right. Thanks for the awesome facts about the stick. You continue to do great work, Noob.
I would expect no less from a retired Warrant Officer. Good review.
November 2023. Some questions: Will the spring get smoother after a time of use? Is the spring too stiff? Is the rudders movement "too short"? Can we have some minireviews from you that have had it for a while? =)
Good review!
It sounds/looks like most of those concerns could be addressed with a firmware update... and I think that the strong joystick reentering profile might be something I'd actually like, especially for a left-hand stick, where drift may not be desirable.
Perhaps they can release a cam or something as a mod kit?
One feature I think I'd like to see is the ability to use that ring as a bind as well as using the LCD for a locked-in feature, such as current waypoint or tied into the comms system to identify speakers... I used to use my g15 for that way back when, playing eve online. It's useful to have without taking up screen real estate, especially in a larger org. The ring, if bindable, could be used in SC as your comms select... although I think that the scroll wheel might be best for that, with the button used as the push-to-talk.
One thing they might also want to consider might be removable sticks, with an offer of current shapes and sizes, which may be more comfortable for longer play... ambidextrous sticks tend not to be so comfortable as the specialists, I find. Perhaps, too, the ability to remove one or both throttles (plug and bolt-on?) for when you're using two of them and run out of uses for 4 throttles... perhaps then, addon modules with extra buttons to replace one, or both, of the throttles?
Lastly, can you remove the button silicone to customise the text, or are they fixed? How about colour change with status? If not, might be two more things to consider. My memory has problems remembering what I binded all my buttons to... any labelling is a big help.
Excellent review again Noobifier, keep it up.
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm actually tempted to get one after this, to go alongside my warthog stick... instead of getting the throttle.
I use Dual for SC. I don't have the benefit of having tested multiple joysticks. They worked just fine for bounty hunting and mining and general flight controls. Vital the issue has been how star citizen reads the inputs through Microsoft. I would expect to be able to program the hat switches on the thumb better. The throttles are excellent for mining
The stick movement sounds a lot like the x52/x55/x56 saitek/logitech one, which I really don't like, you need a lot of force to get out of the center spot, and once you're out of if the force drops sharply, it makes fine control awful.
Oof! Man those innovations are indeed attractive, but that aiming performance is something the manufacturer should definitely fix.
Mr Noob, I just bought myself one of these because of this review.
Great review, thanks you sir! 🍻😎🌴
at the moment I'm very interested into getting HOTAS for myself.
Looking around for different joysticks and throttles and all possible combinations.
There's lack of (NONE) videos about HOTAS for SC. I'm not bothered in old videos that are few years old as they outdated.
After watching your video I wont be buying this Flying stick due to its tension at centre "feature". Looking for something quite opposed to that.
Thank You for this video.
Edit:
Would be awesome if you could do up to date on the market best HOTAS and HOTATS for Star Citizen.
I'm not sure I'm understanding as there are a ton of videos regarding hotas for SC. Given that doing pvp flight combat is going to be a necessity sometimes most people prefer to go dual sticks for SC. But there's still a bunch of videos regarding hotas for SC, a bunch within the last year and at least some over the past few months...
@@Vinwelder from like year ago or before. Tech going forward (but also user experience and honest reviews after year or so of use) but there's none videos regards reliability or latest tech
@@bartim0re487 That's because, honestly, there hasn't been any movement in the last 5 years or so. Gimbal tech peaked a long time ago, and most of the high end gimbals are actually better and more accurate than what you'll find in real life GA aircraft. VPC 50cm2/50cm3 (these are the same except the cm3 has a tunable damper clutch), VKB Gunfighter, those are your best gimbals. Step down to VKB Gladiator for your midrange, and down to TM T16000 for your low end. Grab w/e pedals you can afford if you need them. That's it, every "what joysticks for SC HOSAS should I get?" thread can be answered this way and it hasn't changed much/at all since SC's inception. If you're dead set on HOTAS not HOSAS (dedicated throttle vs a 2nd stick as an omnithrottle for true 6dof), you're looking at the Warthog or modded Cougar throttles. Just go double stick (HOSAS). It's better, and easier.
Noobifier has a video on the Gladiator where he specifically discusses build material longevity. The higher end gimbals are all metal and will last longer than your wrist. I edited this like 5 times, think I'm done now...
One thing I always noticed about the glossy plastic finish like they have up top is it always looks dirty and nasty after limited use, even tho its just finger prints. Awesome thorough review!
I picked up one of these to pair with my gf's T.16000M without high expectations, but I just assumed/hoped the VelocityOne would be the better option for the right side. As soon as you started describing the issue it clicked for me exactly why it feels weird to use, and I think the explanation about aim assist on console might have some merit to it, bad choice if intentional.
Like a lot of others have commented I'm going to swap it to the left hand where the stiffness might be beneficial for strafing using a HOSAS setup. The spring idea is promising for either being a fix for the excessive stiffness for pitch and roll, or possibly to have different stiffness for strafing back and forward than strafing left to right. Either way a cheap spring might be a great v1.1 compared to a full v2 retune.
I don't have a lot of experience with a variety of joysticks, but your description of the stick profile makes it sound very strange. I can't imagine how it would feel to use a stick like that. It seems like it would be totally counterintuitive, even when you think of a controller stick or something.
I'm still trying to figure out if I should just get another T16000M or look into a more expensive option to move into a dual joystick setup. I was kind of hoping this would be an option, but i can't imagine getting used to that.
It confused me to review this because as I said in the video, you would expect the focus to be on “Good Feeling” and then fancy stuff
I am in the market for a entry level joy stick. When might we expect a review list video of several options?
Thanks you saved my ass i already had 2 of them in my basket but i order 2 Gladiator NXT Evo now ... i dont wont train my arm muscles while plaing a flight simulator...
I can see how for some the tension issue may be a thing. In general though, I now have two of these and find them excellent value for money. They are not high end, but they sit nicely in the middle between cheap and low/mid tier..
This looks like a good option as a left stick for me, I’m not sure if the issue with the cam profile will as big a problem with it as a movement stick. In fact I’m wondering if the inverse cam profile may be nice because it make it easy to keep it at full actuation for extended periods of time. Is anyone else able to weigh in on this?
@8:47 is why I subbed. Only if all creators kept THIS as a creed or motto. Frfr
Looks like the engineers thought making a flight stick was too easy for their lofty minds and just lumped a bunch of features onto it.
Computer peripheral companies don't realize how far you can go with simplicity and quality materials. Part of it is the marketing wonks that know, sadly, that "gamers" want lights and feature bloat. Seems like they haven't got the memo that there's a distinction between "gamer" and "simmer", the latter of whom should be their target with this product.
@@x3wildcard True words man.
Thank you for the insights! How do you think it would fare as an off-hand stick , just using it like a throttle?
Not sure if I totally agree with this, after just coming from FS XPO alot of booths used this, and I myself thought it was comfortable to use. But to keep in mind it's a fraction of the cost of other high end flight sticks. Where this price point is at I think it's very ideal and we'll worth it
As a lefty, I appreciate the designers of this thing
I bought this stick on preorder and had it day one.
I was planning on buying two to replace my twin t-16000m set up.
within 10 minutes of moving the stick , before even plugging it in, Iknew it was going back.
The tension around center made it impossible to do anything accurately like aim.
Plus I didn't like the small amount of throw.
The t-16000m also has a slightly heavy center but was easily fixed with the zip tie mod.
T-16000m right stick + zip tie mod is still untouchable
it even beats the vkb in terms of smoothness around center (no hump) and has twice the throw diameter.
Now , I'm going to watch your review and see if you thought the same.
Edit: Another thing I didn't like was the ergonomics. The t16 whupps it there as well.
plus the rectangular shape of the base combined with the tension made it impossible to move without bolting it down.
I thought the same.
Spot On Review!! I 've encountered the same problems since I am mostly into spacesims!!
Not something you can't get used to, but it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, if you consider the build quality of this joystick, especially in this price range!
Although I do not consider it a total loss, since one of the reasons that I bought it, is Xbox compatibility!! Paired with an Xbox series S and a Gamepass subscription, it's a very cost effective way to enter into Flight Simulator!!
I do not think, I will retire my Logitech 3D anytime soon!! (Although I am very tempted by the Gladiator NXT EVO ‘SPACE COMBAT EDITION’ series of joysticks )
NXT is a solid choice
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I did some testing and it seems that you have to set the profile to "Precision" (Stick Performance --> Profiles --> Precision) when playing space sims!!! What do you think?
@@nickk.kalogeras6983 nope. The spring is still nuts
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Definitely!! 😄 But I also have a HOTAS Cougar and I am quite used to it!!!! 😄😄😄
If anything in a dual stick setup, it sounds like it would make a good left stick, with a more precise stick in the right hand.
It has great features, so I would agree that a left stick would be fine
Oh maybe you could use one of the touch pads on top of the stick for super precise aiming
Could I use just one stick for Star Citizen? Or is two sort of a necessity?
Excellent content, and incredibly informative! Thank you!
I wonder if the tightness of the stick would make it a good upgrade from the t16000m as a left stick (or which ever side you use to control strafe) in SC for Racing. I find I run into trouble with the t16000m imparting tiny amounts of left and right strafe when attempting to hold steady in a straight strafe/fully throttling forward. or if my arm would just get tired after a long race...
Great review
It looks nice at least.
They totally missed an opportunity for a rudder control with that ring... That might be able to be added through software updates
I have to say the stick seemed impressive. Maybe I didnt fully understand your critical feedback at the end, but I didnt see it as a deal breaker. I prefer a stiffer stick that fights me to center. For me, looking for a SC dual stick rig, it seemed feature rich, button rich and not sure why it would not be accurate. For me, what worries is the fact you call it entry level at $129 (current price) and I need two. What are your thoughts of this being paired with an X-55 HOTAS? Using the X-55 stick for right hand and the turtle beach for left.
holy moly. I didnt know this one existed. Has a few features that i have always wanted.
A firmware update to make it a little nicer and i might just pick one up.
I think the stiff centre actually makes it great for the off-hand using it for manu thrusters.
It is a great value and a great stick if you are ok with its tuning.
I like ur point about making it good then add extras. Thrustmasters m16000 looks like its from 90s but its good. Prolly better design philosophy
I think for the price it has tremendous value. I think people are expecting a bit much for 100 bucks.
Also I’m a purely MSFS so it’s perfect for me.
thank you for this great review as i am looking to swap my hotas thruster out for a second stick for star citizen. while my current hotas is the cheapest on the market (PXN brand) i have come to love it and through trial and error have the flight stick setup in manner that is consistent and suitable for my level of flying, however its lack of buttons for keybinds has me constantly hunting down keyboard buttons while trying to do ai combat in SC. this turtle beach is in my price range and was thinking of using it to replace my thruster.
while you stated that it could be much better as a main stick, what are you thoughts as a potential second stick for a entry level SC pilot? and do you have any reccomendations perhaps if this TB is just not worth it?
wait, so with the inverted response curve, you're saying that you have the most resistance near center and much less resistance as you near the end of the throw? that seems unlikely. i have a gladiator NXT and there's a significant center detente on all axes and resistance is constant to the end of throw in any direction. that would look like a little "v" with a horizontal line on either side. would that be more accurate? or is it really getting less tension towards the end of the throw?
Noobifier, thank you for this exhaustive review. I was considering this stick to use in a space game but i may have to rethink it. One thing sir, why do you always say "Comment your comments in the comments" and not just "Comment below"? I have really always wondered about that, is it like your trademark slogan? Again thank you for this review, and bless you from one veteran (US Navy) to another!
When will you review the new WingWing joystick?
I absolutely loved mine for the whole two days it worked
Lol, wut… it just broke?