Crim though 😂 Varina is super strong. She gives you access to WUB and self-mill, tons of card selection, a relevant mana sink, and incidental life gain. She also gets underestimated at the table just like on this podcast.
She's a commander of mine and only reason I run snow lands in her is because of instant speed reanimating narfi because they never see it coming. Rattarrabik was a great new addition so I can have multiple copies of him
i honestly think varina is the single best general-purpose zombies commander. she's not a combo piece like wilhelt or grimgrin, but she solves one of zombie decks' biggest issues: they're SO SLOW. being able to pitch cards that you don't want or which you can easily reanimate while drawing cards at the same time is extremely useful, plus she gives you access to stuff like Aven Wind Guide and God-Eternal Oketra. not to mention generic goodstuff white cards like Smothering Tithe and removal like Swords, Generous Gift, etc.
@@cable_company I'd also say she's the best because she can exile opposing value zombies with a 1 mana instants swords vs 2+ plus mana exile that not only cost more mana but usually cost more money as well if you want stuff li,e deadly rollick because your deck doesn't have access to white. Varina can also have a ton of boardwipes so that you can keep opposing zombie armies in check
Varina is easily my favorite zombie commander, not because she allows you to play white (although that is definitely a plus) but because she takes zombies in a more aggressive direction compared to the usual combo affair. In the right shell of low mana value, fast zombies she can: quickly draw cards, fill the graveyard where zombies like to be, and dig for the pieces you need to finish the game. Absolutely love her.
I think Sidisi, Brood Tyrant does it better, though she's sadly not a zombie (print some sultai zombie commanders WOTC!). Also, why would you want to put white in a zombie deck? Seems like a flavor fail from the get-go.
@RyanEglitis because white has good reanimation. Sidisi is just self mill while Varina is card selection, with tons of creatures that happily go to the grave and utility cards that can stay in your hand.
@@PsychicSenechal Sidisi is self mill with automatic zombie creation, whereas with Varina you have to pay. Also, while white can heal/ressurect things while staying on flavor, it's a big flavor fail to have white reanimating *zombies* (even if there's a _single_ plane where wizards forced it as a theme).
@@RyanEglitis hard disagree the self mill aspect of sidisi doesnt compare. Ive easily and often looted 7+ in one attack with varina and u get to cherry pick the protection cards and mass reanimation spells in ur hand while tossing ur zombies for rise of the dark realms
Personally I think Varina is one of the strongest Zombie commanders. Having access to white means running cards like akromas will which makes ending the game much faster in a zombie deck. I think Richard is sleeping on Varina's ability, there are many cards that care about discarding cards (Archfiend of ifnir, bone miser for example) it also fuels strong delve cards like treasure cruise and dig through time and like Tomer said setting up for a mass reanimation spell like living death can be game ending. There are also cards like library of leng which lets you keep important cards. I do agree with Richard in that Varina does force you to play less zombies because of its access to white but some of the powerful white cards just make it worth it imo. Because you're also playing an "off meta" commander people don't really put pressure on you in the early turns like they would if you were playing another strong zombie commander. I also like Varina because it gives a bit of a different play style to existing zombie decks.
I never quite get what other casual players talk about when they talk about "strongest". like of all these commanders Varina is the only one cEDH viable but I know they are not talking about cEDH. as a value engine, Whilhem and Scarab God can be on par with Varina but Varina can have them in her deck.
Aside from being a precon commander imo Wilhelt's popularity can definitely be owed to how powerful he is, even outside of all the combos. More often than not I've found that having a decayed token versus a normal token is rarely a difference, and it even lends itself as a strength to cards like Death Tyrant which still see the decaying zombies as attacking once you need to sacrifice them to their own ability, making fresh normal zombies.
Wihelt does everything a zombie player needs, more zombies, drawing and even have great combos, it is by a lot the best zombie commander, off course this because we don't have many good options to be honest, but it is far from the meh they make it looks like.
I took my Wilhelt deck in a lite-aristocrats direction to really take advantage of all the dying zombinos. I have cards like Meathook Massacre, Bastion of Remembrance, etc
Wilhelt is incredibly strong - I tried a few games with most zombie commanders, and he was the only one who built himself so well it actually turned me off it a bit. Making tokens including from tokens dying and giving you a second draw a turn is just all the value you need.
I have used Varina since Wilhelm came out, and she is Amazing. No one expects all the graveyard shenanigans she can do. Is my favorite Zombie and she is SO GOOD
Two things I've always thought would be a good change for these tier lists: 1 at the end, you show everyone's lists, maybe do an average, ask each other ok you evaluate x card being as good as x card? And show the final list that the group kinda agrees on 2 have a poll somewhere that people can rank them and make an audience tier list, maybe even before the show so you can compare to your own rankings
1:12:55 Overcharged Amalgam. Card is S tier, it counters Bojuka Bog, Nihil Spellbomb, almost anything trying to exile your graveyard. Also a free counter if you have Rooftop Storm out.
Exactly. I wasn't quite onboard with their whole "yeahhh but gravecrawler". As it might never be exiled in one of various of ways. Or that gravecrawler isn't just one in the 99. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I absolutely love Relentless Dead.
Y'all missed Gempalm Polluter and Shepherd of Rot, great finishers that can really close it out when you're otherwise stonewalled. The former especially can get people absolutely out of nowhere. Richard, you should play Varina some time. You get the orzhov drain zombies, the tap zombie and the white token pay offs in addition to all the other stuff. Anointed procession and Cathars crusade do so much for zombies. The looting also sets up your reanimation better than you think. The 2 mana ability is basically irrelevant. If you are activating it you're likely so far behind it doesn't matter
Grimgrin was the first legendary card I pulled on a pack when I returned to play Magic, the first commander I built and the first combo win I ever made.
The best thing about Thraximundar/Lord of Tresserhorn having access to red? You can slot in Neheb the Eternal and Aggravated Assault/Seize the Day/Breath of Fury and go to town with extra combats, where Thraximundar/Lord of Tresserhorn and your waves of 2/2 Zombies pummel your enemies (very much on theme). To ensure your zombies connect, add in Zombie Master (swampwalk) and Urborg so that your army is unblockable. To ensure you get more zombies, attach Wand of Orcus to your commander.
Diregraf captain is not just a lord, but a combo piece as a sacrifice payoff. You had mentioned bloodartist earlier with grimgrin, this is that on a zombie that is also a lord.
I've tried Wilhelt, Varina, and Grimgrin as Zombie tribal Commanders and in my opinion Wilhelt is great for combo decks, Varina is FUN as heck, and Grimgrin is the most flavorful Zombie commander.
Being a necromancer must be hard...so many good zombies....I am constantly changing cards in my Varina deck because there are so many cool zombies. Rider is great because you can tutor it with corpse harvester
Good timing, I was just updating my zombie list - I can check your work 🙂 *Update* Sidisi: It also is a tutor you can repeatedly reanimate fairly easily. Lord of the Undead: Like my 7th best lord - you never have extra mana to use, and there's plenty of other effects to mass reanimate instead. And Havengul Lich/Scarab God/Coffin Queen can fill that roll with better abilities/stats anyway. I even put it below Cemetery Reaper, because at least that offers some weak graveyard hate. Death Baron: This is one of the better zombie lords because of the deathtouch. Makes it really hard to hit you back, plus lets you get in easily. Zombie Master: Just behind Death Baron on power Bladestitched Skaab: One of the better lords just based on MV Fell Stinger: This is great for the same reason as Sidisi - reanimation letting you draw again. Plus it even sets up for re-reanimation. Graveborn Muse: Seth is right here - you just lose too much and can''t cast everything. It's also at 4 mana and you have to wait a turn - I don't even run it anymore. Mass Reanimation: I always run Living Death, Zombie Apoc, & Balthor the Defiled. I'd run Patriarch's Bidding too, but it's a little off flavor for me. Noxious Ghoul: This is the truth - it's also one of the big payoffs for mass reanimation. It's zombie Plague Wind, but for 5 mana. Murderous Rider: Kinda sucks, but it's one of the few zombie-themed removal spells. I rarely find myself casting the zombie half though. Much more often it comes back via mass-reanimation. I can imagine a case where you could use it to keep from decking yourself, but that's firmly magic christmasland. Champion of the Perished: Mostlly just makes it on rate as the 3rd one drop to fill the curve. Souless One does it better (though for 3 more mana). Nightscape Familiar: Seth has it - this is trash. Carrion Feeder: Not a huge fan, as it doesn't do much besides sac things, and there are better outlets. It takes your go-wide position and turns it half (or less) as tall. Grave Titan: I loved it in my zombie deck for years, but I had to cut it to make room for more actual tribe members. It would still be in on raw power though. Gray Merchant: I'm not sold on it, as it doesn't do anything for all your zombie tokens. At 5 mana, I think there are more impactful things you could be doing. Most board states where I'd want to cast it, I'd already be winning easily. Relentles Dead: Too expensive to use - zombie decks don't leave mana up. Endless Ranks: Tomer has it - it's SO slow, and it makes the entire table team up to kill you for no reason. Army of the Damned: Great way to spend 8 mana and go down a card. It would be ok if they didn't come in tapped, but not getting to block _and_ ensuring you get wrathed is never worth it. Surprised Rot Hulk, Necroduality, Rooftop Storm, Hordewing Skaab, & Balthor weren't rated.
My first zombie commander deck wasn't quite Tresserhorn boomer but it was Korlash. A regenerating tribe member in the command zone who grows in size as you make land drops was a lot of fun. I played things nobody plays anymore like the Eastern and Western Paladins to have extra ways to deal with stuff like Baneslayer and Avenger of Zendikar. Grimgrin was my next and last zombie commander. Nothing else has been as fun to me since in the tribe.
I have def fallen into the trap too many times to count. My table plays a ton of exile effects so its hard to ever get use to it unless I'm doing well.
That "5 mana tutor" with the right setup becomes a zero drop under rooftop storm, and there are plenty of ways to cycle it between the graveyard, your hand, and the battlefield multiple times to tutor for as many cards as you need.
Nevinyrral has been given the short shrift. Makes zombies die (which is their job) and maximises rage around the table. Plus stack your triggers to have loads more zombies Bonus points for Gift of Immortality on him
I agree with Seth's take. Wilhelt is cheap to cast, keeps you in zombies with the decays, it draws you cards and decay is even a feature if you can use and abuse death effects. It's especially potent because you can turn normal zombie tokens into decayed tokens. You abuse zombie etbs and death effects all in one go.
My 1st commander deck like 10 years ago was zombie tribal. It was mono black and I ran Korlash Heir to Blackblade and it ruled. The deck did its fun zombie thing but then you just had this big badass in the command zone ready to rock. Got to play all kinds of cool zombies from way before I started from like onslaught block with with the cool gross art. Such a fun deck.
One of my first EDH decks was Thraximundar, I loved that deck. I have recently rebuilt it to a Tormod and Kraum partner deck, it actually functions super well
Zombies is one of the few archetypes where deck feel is the most important thing in building for me personally. I'd never run pingers as a win con. If you're watching a zombie movie, you're afraid of the endless horde pushing through your defenses, and devouring you. You're not afraid of them killing each other en masse, somehow causing you to die behind your walls. Zombie tokens and lords are the way I love to put these decks together. Endless Ranks just feeding me more tokens for free each turn. Good stuff.
Relentless Dead is best played mid/late game with a carrion feeder/instant speed sac and enough mana to use your graveyard as a response. I.E. Overcharged Amalgam, Undead Augur, Vengeful Dead.
First of all, I play grimgrin not to be a hipster but because he is actually a dominant force of nature. Second of all Varina has got to be the strongest zombie commander. I had to take my Varina apart because my group just couldnt keep up. Wilhelt, scarab god, not mentioned but sidisi brood tyrant, both gisas, they just couldnt hang.
What you guys should do is have someone make you all identical basic zombie decks (with nothing rated s or a) and then you can personalise you deck with 15 cards each. see who's s cards are the best!
I recommend y'all trying to do a podcast where you collectively build a zombie deck. That way you can put some of these grades in perspective. cause when you are trying to slot them into a deck they don't seem as good as they do in passive conversation(such as this podcast)
The Grimgrin disrespect 12 minutes in hurt 🥲 But I think people underestimate the power of having a sac outlet in the command zone, but my play group plays very medium power level, so I could just be out of touch 😅
I wish the double feature frame went onto more cards that weren't just grayed out, it's a really nice frame. My favorite Zombies: Undead Warchief, Balthor the Defiled, Undead Alchemist, Headless Rider. Shoutout to Deathbringer Thoctar as well.
Endless ranks of the dead is only for jank zombie decks for flavor. I would only add it to a deck where I don't want to win, but just feel cool. But flavor and art wise, it's easily one of my favorites. If only it was either a 2 mana card, or it was on a zombie body.
I gotta agree Endless Ranks of the Dead is definitely a D card, 4 mana to potentially do nothing, average scenario you get 2 then 3 tokens over the next two turns, might as well play diabolic tutor and find a good card
I love Tormod, the Desecrator and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces for my zombie deck. I really enjoy triggering tormod multiple times and Sakashima lets me potentially do that twice as much and enables other stuff as well! I also used to have a GB version with Tormod, since green lets me play lands from the graveyard and there's some sweet cards you can add.
I know you guys were over time but it seems like there are a lot of cards missing as a whole that could of been mentionned, or categories that could of been voted on Like recurring creatures could of been one (with razorlash and master of death and the likes), non zombies good in zombies (like jadar, geralf, etc, or wand of orcus, dreadhorde invasion, liliana's mastery, nexroduality, most liliana planeswalkers, etc), no mention of archghohl of thraben? Midnight reaper? Havengul lich? Headless rider?
Tombstone Stairwell getting no love...Vengeful Dead and Noxious Ghoul hitting that S++ tier Phyrexian Altar: *Laughs in Gravecrawler* Buried Alive: *Laughs in flying Gravecrawler* (RE:Wonder)
Wilhelt has such a massive advantage over the other Zombie tribal Commanders because, unlike them, he is a Zombie. Scarab God and Gisa and Geralf can’t take advantage of your Lords and other tribal support.
For those asking, why would you not want to play a bunch of spells that create a bunch of 2/2 black zombies? What’s more fun than leading a massive legion of the undead? Depending on the token, they can be used as sack outlets, meat shields, or with enough buffs, they can become considerable threats with flying, menace, deathtouch and hexproof. Now we just need some red zombies! That way, they can potentially all have haste and or more “explosive” death triggers.
For underated zombie commanders, one of my personal favorites was Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. You can spit out tokens pretty consistently with him. And the ability to grow it by sacing zombies can let you commander damage someone out of the game. Always been one of my favorite cards in the format.
But.. but... my grimgrin! Honestly having a sac outlet and removal (when you attack you destroy a creature) in the command zone is awesome! Sidisi as a commander is not a zombie tribal commander, its a combo / ad nauseum commander And yeah tomer sold me on removing endless ranks. Oh and no one plays sign in blood and read the bones anymore, just like we don't play think twice and stuff like that anymore Seth, saying graveborn muse is too much draw and loss of life but playing phyrexian arena and black market connection is hilarious, he would not say no to having 2 or 3 phyrexian arena, lets not kid ourselves
@58:59 If you play with Ghoulcaller Gisa as your commander and you have a Noxious Ghoul in play you can board wipe pretty easy. Just tap and sack a buffed Champion of the Perished and all of a sudden every non-zombie creature gets -8/-8 or higher. It's my favorite and most successful board wipe strategy.
In light of Duskmourne being released, Grimgrin works quite well with most of the black cards. Either you sack them, they die, you get to manifest dread, or they die, and you just pay to bring them back with a finality counter.
Zombie commander player here, for anyone interested in playing high powered zombies read further: I have 2 rules for my zombies deck, no planeswalkers and no non-zombies. Thats it. Wilhelt is a combo piece and a phyrexian arena on a commander, so he's a huge target for people to get rid of. He's slower, and though he generates extra bodies often enough you're not swinging, so he's a "ill sit here and make zombies, and dig for my wincon" commander. I ran him as a turbo adnauseum deck searching for gravecrawler + phyrexian altar/rooftop storm + Acererak. He often had a lot of trouble dealing with interaction and in the end i figured he wasn't the optimal zombie commander. So who is? Well... Varina is the best for now. She's a 4/4 so she's difficult for people to get rid of, she gains you life which often than not you'll lose life for good cards like city of brass, vampiric tutor/imperial seal, etc. but her HUGE advantage is that she sculpts your hand and graveyard. Having 5 cards in hand, 2 of them zombies, allows me throw those zombies in the grave where they belong and allow me to dig for counterspells/combo pieces/answers to problems. The one downside she has that i've noticed is often by turn 6/7 i'm down to 1 or 2 cards in hand from the heavy interaction i have to do to keep up with CEDH decks. As for the video referring to "no good white zombies" my 2 MVP's for white are wayward servant and corpse knight. Both being zombie combo pieces. Ive won turn 3 by pulling out gravecrawler +wayward servant + phyrexian altar. Lastly with varina because of her sculpting it allows for me to play a higher mana curve of zombies, since they're going in the grave for my 1 -2 drop interaction spells. So ill run mikaeus the unhallowed, rothulk, sidisi undead vizier, wilhelt, god-eternal oketra, havengul lich, and my hand will just pop those babies into the grave for easy reanimation. For anyone interested heres my deck list: www.moxfield.com/decks/rjUZSMdF6k6xG-Rv5d3MEw
gravecrawler+phyrexian altar+ open the graves/headless rider/tormod/diregraf collosus = infinite zombies and mana, with sidisi in the command zone you can cast them to exploit themselves as many times as you want and cast anything you want from your deck. Also sidisi's power in a reanimator themed deck is underrated AF, they exploit themselves, go to the graveyard, and become a cheaper tutor any time you bring them back with necromancy, animate dead, or reanimate. Because zombies are so strong in combos, even in mono black, having a tutor in the command zone to find any missing piece you want becomes suuuuper strong. Mikaeus + plague belcher/skinrender + altar of dementia, headless rider + nim deathmantle +ashnods altar, and because you're in MB your devotion for gary bombs will be off the chart. Highly reccomend people put some respect on the S-tier ranking.
My zombie deck is kraum and tormod you get grixis colors, you get a combo tool with tormod and a card draw tool with kraum and I think the red zombies aren't as bad as some think.
Im just gonna say it, Richard is the funniest of goldfish crew. I like any pod cast he’s part of. Can’t wait for his kid to grow up so he can get back in commander clash.
I think Varina is being slept on, you work with it a bit and all of a sudden you draw 15 cards on a attack and only discard 5, if that isnt at least GOOD idk what to tell ya.
Varina is a great Zombie token commander, white lets you use "anointed procession" and her looting effect lets you dig for scarab god as your second commander who can then resurrect a lot of the cards you discarded to find him
Like Tomer, my first built deck was a Trax and it has a huge soft spot for me. I recently changed the deck over to a Varina deck and it performs a lot better, but I still love my zombie assassin.
Varina is easily the strongest zombie commander. For exactly the reasons Tomer states. She enables everything zombies want to do while being scalable for power up to at least 8 and a variety of play styles. Been running her since release and she's easily the most fun deck I've built. Plus she gives you access to the most efficient removal in the format as well as the best zombie aristocrats, and Sevinne's Reclamation.
Tomer got a good point with Zombie and Spirit being a weird creature combo, but without knowing the lore I could imagine it being the resurrected spirit of a defeated zombie lord, which has more remnants of a human personality or maybe still has some sort of corrupted soul that could be resurrected. Another explanation would be a necromantic sort of soul exploit that partially resurrects a spirit, but in a way that it's basically only a zombie of its former personality/soul.
Awwww! No love for "Balthor The Defiled" as a repeatable recursion (as your mono black commander) with "Vengeful Dead" and "Noxious Ghoul" and sweet, sweet iconic cards such as the world bending "Tombstone Stairwell". With your zombies in and out of you GY "Crypt of Agadeem" for in and "Cabal Coffers" When out, Undead shenanigans aplenty. Oh "Gempalm polluter" also Throws another (quit beefy) zombie in the GY whilst one shotting an opponent for the funs. I enjoyed this upload, Zombies are my jam.
As someone who's been playing zombies since 2011, I definitely think y'all just ignored how sneakily powerful Gisa and Geralf are actually are. They stock up the grave every time you play them which is hugely relevant, and make all your cards far more resilient with their ability. Cards like Fell Stinger, Fleshbag Marauder, and Sidisi all get so much better when you can play them every turn. On top of that, they have the nice upside of not reading so powerful so they often get overlooked. When people do initial threat assessment at the table they often skip over the duo, and people rarely waste their spot removal on them, letting you continue to accrue value. And after field wipes they give you a way to rebuild your field easily even if your mass reanimation spell gets countered. Their only real weakness is not being a zombie themselves, but having played every zombie commander i think they're not all that far behind Wilhelt and in certain strategies they are a better commander than him
In regards to Tomer's questioning of graveborn muse being both a zombie and a spirit, Look at the art. It looks like there are two figures. One is a zombie and the other the spirit. Being a muse she's giving the zombie inspiration. The card should be renamed to Graveborn and Muse.
I'm currently considering this card for Wilhelt deck. The only thing making me hesitate is the amount of Exile board wipes nowadays and it doesn't work with wilhelt's zombies for me to wipe myself for value.
This is my 2 colour dimir Field of the dead+Cabal manabase: 15 swamps (split of snow and normal) 1 snow island 1 basic island Underground sea, watery grave, ice tunnel, tango dual and fetid pools. 5 duals with both types Cabal coffers, cabal stronghold urborg field of the dead 9 fetches (7 duals and vista and fabled passage) tolaria west (to tutor cabal/urborg/field/mana crypt) 36 total +expedition map So basically every card is a swamp except field, tolaria west and those 2 islands and the cabal lands Feel free to comment on any improvements, notice that there are no command tower/morphic pool
Varina is a lot better than you guys think. Can play Ratadrabik, Zombie Oketra, Mondrak/Anointed Procession, Smotherhing Tithe, all the great white removal richard hates, lol. Then there's the interaction with draw doublers like A. Archive and Teferi's Ageless, the shear ability to dig for combos, unburial rights is great to discard and then flash back to reanimate something else you discarded... there's just so much gas in this deck. If all else fails you can use her second ability to generate a ton of tokens, and this is a great deck for Cathar's Crusade. I thought her design was pretty random until I actually built the deck though, so I understand.
My Zombie deck has gone from Korlash (B) -> Varina (WUB) -> Tormod + Ravos (WB). I love the alt art Korlash, but the deck couldn't make up its mind whether it was zombies, voltron, or swamps-matter. I rebuilt to Varina, to focus on tribal lords and recursion, but there were too many choices with two extra colors and turns out I didn't enjoy looting (would rather cast the zombies than feel like I'm just digging for combo/synergy). But I'd played WB Zombie Solemnity the one time I built a Standard deck, really liked Wayward Servant (plus Binding Mummy, and a fun-of Unconventional Tactics), and in part was trying to relive that. Plus God-Eternal Oketra is a house. So I pulled it out of mothballs and trimmed the U. Tormod was a decent source of tokens, even with no stylistic changes. Ravos was the best way I could find to get W, since he is an anthem, fits the raise dead theme, and in doing so enables Tormod pretty well. I think Varina made a better commander, but just didn't click with me as well, having to fight against urges towards good stuff and control + mass reanimator. Plus it freed me up to try some other Esper deck, since I try not to duplicate CIs.
Necroduality Undead Alchemist Etrrnal skylord lich lord of unx Cleaver Skaab secrets of the dead Havengul Runebinder Poppet stitcher Havengul lich laboratoy Druge Military intelligence and Reconnaissance Mission.
I love zombies! Willhelt was one of my first commanders so this is going to be entertaining. Slight tangent, does anyone know if we're still going to get the Deck Doctor episode? I was really looking forward to that one when it got teased but it's been a hot second.
Currently building intro decks for my kids and friends, Dimir zombies up next. I'm going with Wilhelt as commander and as few combos as possible. Make zombies, pump zombies, make them flying or menace, death touch and some graveyard recursion. It seems like a solid start for a new player with tribal decks as long as you don't go tutors and combos. But I got to say, 2023 did not give many new interesting zombies. 😭 And for being two sets of horror themed settings in Innistrad it sure didn't give that many zombie relevant cards. Hoping for 2024 to get some zombie love.
"Are there even any green zombie cards?" *Polukranos Unchained; Storrev, Devkarin Lich; Underrealm Lich; Ghoulcaller's Harvest; and Grizzly Ghoul have left the chat*
I've always liked Varina. Maybe because my first ever deck was Aminatou and she was in that Precon. Anyway, I think that looting is excellent especially in a graveyard deck. White also gives you access to two token doublers now. Also, Teferi's Ageless Insight and Alhammarret's Archive are nuts in any commander that is doing something card neutral like Varina or Aminatou.
For reference, I only found two zombies that were mono green, unless you go into golgari, in which there were several. God eternal Rhonas, and Ghoultree are the only mono green zombies I found.
sorry, but why no Corpse Harvester, It is one of, if not the best zombie tutor. Or withered Wretch, the best zombie graveyard hate even outside tribal decks
I got back into the game and started playing commander when grimgrin came out. I got into commander and dimir because of grimgrin. Ive had a zombie edh deck ever since, played with every zombie commander, and played evwry type of zombie deck. I am an expert on this subject. Best commander is easily willhelt. Its zombie with training wheels, its so easy. My fav is gisa and geralf for flavor. Best card is gravecrawler. Cryptbreaker is best for a different reason. It's insane card draw. Endless ranks of the dead is a trap card. The 1/ 12 games youll get 2+ zombies, and if its ever a problem its destroyed and youre sad. Best lord in entirely up to your playstyle as well as meta. It was diregraf captain. Death baron might be the most important overall honestly. Zombie master is maybe best on a heavy black meta. Lord of the accursed is likely the best to give evasion to your army if youre wide and tall which is easy to do.
We need a a zombie showdown for everyone to back up their takes
But then we won't get to see Noxious Ghoul pop off...
Everyone play coat of arms
@@frankiesantos1050 you know tomer is going to play the meta again like infect week and jam angel of glory’s rise lol
@@frankiesantos1050 Speaking of Coat of Arms, we need a zombie-themed version where a zombie is wearing a coat made of zombie arms.
YES
The immediate flip on Nightscape Familiar was hilarious, 10/10 evaluation
Crim though 😂
Varina is super strong. She gives you access to WUB and self-mill, tons of card selection, a relevant mana sink, and incidental life gain. She also gets underestimated at the table just like on this podcast.
She's a commander of mine and only reason I run snow lands in her is because of instant speed reanimating narfi because they never see it coming. Rattarrabik was a great new addition so I can have multiple copies of him
i honestly think varina is the single best general-purpose zombies commander. she's not a combo piece like wilhelt or grimgrin, but she solves one of zombie decks' biggest issues: they're SO SLOW. being able to pitch cards that you don't want or which you can easily reanimate while drawing cards at the same time is extremely useful, plus she gives you access to stuff like Aven Wind Guide and God-Eternal Oketra. not to mention generic goodstuff white cards like Smothering Tithe and removal like Swords, Generous Gift, etc.
@@cable_company I'd also say she's the best because she can exile opposing value zombies with a 1 mana instants swords vs 2+ plus mana exile that not only cost more mana but usually cost more money as well if you want stuff li,e deadly rollick because your deck doesn't have access to white. Varina can also have a ton of boardwipes so that you can keep opposing zombie armies in check
He access to white is great to add artifact destruction which is important for all the artifact sacrifice outlets
To me, Varina is like, "What if Raffine fueled a combo kill?"
Varina is easily my favorite zombie commander, not because she allows you to play white (although that is definitely a plus) but because she takes zombies in a more aggressive direction compared to the usual combo affair. In the right shell of low mana value, fast zombies she can: quickly draw cards, fill the graveyard where zombies like to be, and dig for the pieces you need to finish the game.
Absolutely love her.
I think Sidisi, Brood Tyrant does it better, though she's sadly not a zombie (print some sultai zombie commanders WOTC!). Also, why would you want to put white in a zombie deck? Seems like a flavor fail from the get-go.
@RyanEglitis because white has good reanimation. Sidisi is just self mill while Varina is card selection, with tons of creatures that happily go to the grave and utility cards that can stay in your hand.
@@PsychicSenechal Sidisi is self mill with automatic zombie creation, whereas with Varina you have to pay. Also, while white can heal/ressurect things while staying on flavor, it's a big flavor fail to have white reanimating *zombies* (even if there's a _single_ plane where wizards forced it as a theme).
@@RyanEglitis hard disagree the self mill aspect of sidisi doesnt compare. Ive easily and often looted 7+ in one attack with varina and u get to cherry pick the protection cards and mass reanimation spells in ur hand while tossing ur zombies for rise of the dark realms
@@pepesantiago3806 Agadeem's Awakening and Zombie Apocalypse are fun too. Esp with ETB Zombz.
Yooo could we start seeing specific tribe tierlists like this in the future? Would love to see Elves or Vampires down the line!
“Free sac outlet that untaps itself with every sac is bad”, really shows how anti-combo they generally were at this point.
Richard is the greatest Heel/Foil/Edgelord in MTG content creation, change my mind.
Personally I think Varina is one of the strongest Zombie commanders. Having access to white means running cards like akromas will which makes ending the game much faster in a zombie deck. I think Richard is sleeping on Varina's ability, there are many cards that care about discarding cards (Archfiend of ifnir, bone miser for example) it also fuels strong delve cards like treasure cruise and dig through time and like Tomer said setting up for a mass reanimation spell like living death can be game ending. There are also cards like library of leng which lets you keep important cards. I do agree with Richard in that Varina does force you to play less zombies because of its access to white but some of the powerful white cards just make it worth it imo. Because you're also playing an "off meta" commander people don't really put pressure on you in the early turns like they would if you were playing another strong zombie commander. I also like Varina because it gives a bit of a different play style to existing zombie decks.
I never quite get what other casual players talk about when they talk about "strongest". like of all these commanders Varina is the only one cEDH viable but I know they are not talking about cEDH. as a value engine, Whilhem and Scarab God can be on par with Varina but Varina can have them in her deck.
RICHARD'S STILL HERE AND WE LOVE IT!
It's very, very pleasing to hear the codfather open every podcast these days.
Keep up the great work everyone!
Aside from being a precon commander imo Wilhelt's popularity can definitely be owed to how powerful he is, even outside of all the combos. More often than not I've found that having a decayed token versus a normal token is rarely a difference, and it even lends itself as a strength to cards like Death Tyrant which still see the decaying zombies as attacking once you need to sacrifice them to their own ability, making fresh normal zombies.
Wihelt does everything a zombie player needs, more zombies, drawing and even have great combos, it is by a lot the best zombie commander, off course this because we don't have many good options to be honest, but it is far from the meh they make it looks like.
I took my Wilhelt deck in a lite-aristocrats direction to really take advantage of all the dying zombinos. I have cards like Meathook Massacre, Bastion of Remembrance, etc
Wilhelt is incredibly strong - I tried a few games with most zombie commanders, and he was the only one who built himself so well it actually turned me off it a bit. Making tokens including from tokens dying and giving you a second draw a turn is just all the value you need.
I have used Varina since Wilhelm came out, and she is Amazing. No one expects all the graveyard shenanigans she can do. Is my favorite Zombie and she is SO GOOD
"And Noxious Ghoul ... if you don't like it, read it again" I love Tomer lmao
Two things I've always thought would be a good change for these tier lists:
1 at the end, you show everyone's lists, maybe do an average, ask each other ok you evaluate x card being as good as x card? And show the final list that the group kinda agrees on
2 have a poll somewhere that people can rank them and make an audience tier list, maybe even before the show so you can compare to your own rankings
Endless Ranks of the Dead is TRAAAAAAAASH. I'm with Tomer.
Yup, tried so hard to make it work and it is always so underwhelming
I don't care if it's good. if I'm playing Zombies, I'm playing a card called "Endless Ranks of the Dead"
@@TheSpunYarn this is the way
@@bluline. This is the way.
@Nick Birkett there's just better cards that Zombie better. The deck is getting tighter and tighter as years go on.
1:12:55 Overcharged Amalgam. Card is S tier, it counters Bojuka Bog, Nihil Spellbomb, almost anything trying to exile your graveyard. Also a free counter if you have Rooftop Storm out.
I didn’t know lands could be counted. Does negate counter bojuka bog too then?
@@Ultimalight na, it has to say “counter target triggered ability” to counter enter the battlefield effects.
Relentless dead is legit. It evades graveyard hate, excluding replacement effects, and is a decent backup to Gravecrawler.
I 100 percent agree! Just leave up one black mana, and he's a slightly less efficient grave crawler.
Exactly. I wasn't quite onboard with their whole "yeahhh but gravecrawler". As it might never be exiled in one of various of ways. Or that gravecrawler isn't just one in the 99. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I absolutely love Relentless Dead.
“There’s not a lot of ways to gain life in Zombies”
Sure, but the ways you can, like Gary and mass-Lifelink, are excellent!
Y'all missed Gempalm Polluter and Shepherd of Rot, great finishers that can really close it out when you're otherwise stonewalled. The former especially can get people absolutely out of nowhere.
Richard, you should play Varina some time. You get the orzhov drain zombies, the tap zombie and the white token pay offs in addition to all the other stuff. Anointed procession and Cathars crusade do so much for zombies.
The looting also sets up your reanimation better than you think. The 2 mana ability is basically irrelevant. If you are activating it you're likely so far behind it doesn't matter
Grimgrin was the first legendary card I pulled on a pack when I returned to play Magic, the first commander I built and the first combo win I ever made.
The best thing about Thraximundar/Lord of Tresserhorn having access to red? You can slot in Neheb the Eternal and Aggravated Assault/Seize the Day/Breath of Fury and go to town with extra combats, where Thraximundar/Lord of Tresserhorn and your waves of 2/2 Zombies pummel your enemies (very much on theme). To ensure your zombies connect, add in Zombie Master (swampwalk) and Urborg so that your army is unblockable. To ensure you get more zombies, attach Wand of Orcus to your commander.
Diregraf captain is not just a lord, but a combo piece as a sacrifice payoff. You had mentioned bloodartist earlier with grimgrin, this is that on a zombie that is also a lord.
yeah they completely ignored the main reason people play Diregraf Captain. Easily the best lord on this list.
I've tried Wilhelt, Varina, and Grimgrin as Zombie tribal Commanders and in my opinion Wilhelt is great for combo decks, Varina is FUN as heck, and Grimgrin is the most flavorful Zombie commander.
Grimgrin was my first commander deck, and still my favourite deck to come back to. I don’t know what Richard is talking about, Grimgrin is great!
Thank you Crim for defending Death Baron's honor.
Being a necromancer must be hard...so many good zombies....I am constantly changing cards in my Varina deck because there are so many cool zombies. Rider is great because you can tutor it with corpse harvester
Good timing, I was just updating my zombie list - I can check your work 🙂
*Update*
Sidisi: It also is a tutor you can repeatedly reanimate fairly easily.
Lord of the Undead: Like my 7th best lord - you never have extra mana to use, and there's plenty of other effects to mass reanimate instead. And Havengul Lich/Scarab God/Coffin Queen can fill that roll with better abilities/stats anyway. I even put it below Cemetery Reaper, because at least that offers some weak graveyard hate.
Death Baron: This is one of the better zombie lords because of the deathtouch. Makes it really hard to hit you back, plus lets you get in easily.
Zombie Master: Just behind Death Baron on power
Bladestitched Skaab: One of the better lords just based on MV
Fell Stinger: This is great for the same reason as Sidisi - reanimation letting you draw again. Plus it even sets up for re-reanimation.
Graveborn Muse: Seth is right here - you just lose too much and can''t cast everything. It's also at 4 mana and you have to wait a turn - I don't even run it anymore.
Mass Reanimation: I always run Living Death, Zombie Apoc, & Balthor the Defiled. I'd run Patriarch's Bidding too, but it's a little off flavor for me.
Noxious Ghoul: This is the truth - it's also one of the big payoffs for mass reanimation. It's zombie Plague Wind, but for 5 mana.
Murderous Rider: Kinda sucks, but it's one of the few zombie-themed removal spells. I rarely find myself casting the zombie half though. Much more often it comes back via mass-reanimation. I can imagine a case where you could use it to keep from decking yourself, but that's firmly magic christmasland.
Champion of the Perished: Mostlly just makes it on rate as the 3rd one drop to fill the curve. Souless One does it better (though for 3 more mana).
Nightscape Familiar: Seth has it - this is trash.
Carrion Feeder: Not a huge fan, as it doesn't do much besides sac things, and there are better outlets. It takes your go-wide position and turns it half (or less) as tall.
Grave Titan: I loved it in my zombie deck for years, but I had to cut it to make room for more actual tribe members. It would still be in on raw power though.
Gray Merchant: I'm not sold on it, as it doesn't do anything for all your zombie tokens. At 5 mana, I think there are more impactful things you could be doing. Most board states where I'd want to cast it, I'd already be winning easily.
Relentles Dead: Too expensive to use - zombie decks don't leave mana up.
Endless Ranks: Tomer has it - it's SO slow, and it makes the entire table team up to kill you for no reason.
Army of the Damned: Great way to spend 8 mana and go down a card. It would be ok if they didn't come in tapped, but not getting to block _and_ ensuring you get wrathed is never worth it.
Surprised Rot Hulk, Necroduality, Rooftop Storm, Hordewing Skaab, & Balthor weren't rated.
You should check shambling ghast and the amount of combos it can do
My first zombie commander deck wasn't quite Tresserhorn boomer but it was Korlash. A regenerating tribe member in the command zone who grows in size as you make land drops was a lot of fun. I played things nobody plays anymore like the Eastern and Western Paladins to have extra ways to deal with stuff like Baneslayer and Avenger of Zendikar. Grimgrin was my next and last zombie commander. Nothing else has been as fun to me since in the tribe.
My zombie deck was Gisa and Geralf. I love my trash siblings.
Can confirm, 2011 commander grimgrin did run that combo and was very scary
Tomer spittint facts on Endless Ranks of the Undead haha I wanted this card to work so bad and it NEVER does anything 😂
I have def fallen into the trap too many times to count. My table plays a ton of exile effects so its hard to ever get use to it unless I'm doing well.
That "5 mana tutor" with the right setup becomes a zero drop under rooftop storm, and there are plenty of ways to cycle it between the graveyard, your hand, and the battlefield multiple times to tutor for as many cards as you need.
When Richard asked Crim to go back to normal zoom, he should’ve zoomed-in further
Richard should have waited like 3 seconds then went MODOK himself.
Nevinyrral has been given the short shrift. Makes zombies die (which is their job) and maximises rage around the table. Plus stack your triggers to have loads more zombies
Bonus points for Gift of Immortality on him
That's who I use. Play zombies then use Nevinyrral as a wipe and army in a can when needed
I agree with Seth's take. Wilhelt is cheap to cast, keeps you in zombies with the decays, it draws you cards and decay is even a feature if you can use and abuse death effects.
It's especially potent because you can turn normal zombie tokens into decayed tokens. You abuse zombie etbs and death effects all in one go.
My 1st commander deck like 10 years ago was zombie tribal. It was mono black and I ran Korlash Heir to Blackblade and it ruled. The deck did its fun zombie thing but then you just had this big badass in the command zone ready to rock. Got to play all kinds of cool zombies from way before I started from like onslaught block with with the cool gross art. Such a fun deck.
Can't agree more with Tomer on Endless Ranks. If you're ever tempted to run it, go with Dreadhorde Invasion instead.
More tribal tier list. Also another idea for the podcast would be for all 4 of you to create a commander deck.
Y'all should have a full podcast of big head mode for the memes
Grimgrin is not bad. He's absolutely nuts lol. A free sac outlet and repeatable removal in the command zone.
One of my first EDH decks was Thraximundar, I loved that deck. I have recently rebuilt it to a Tormod and Kraum partner deck, it actually functions super well
Zombies is one of the few archetypes where deck feel is the most important thing in building for me personally. I'd never run pingers as a win con. If you're watching a zombie movie, you're afraid of the endless horde pushing through your defenses, and devouring you. You're not afraid of them killing each other en masse, somehow causing you to die behind your walls.
Zombie tokens and lords are the way I love to put these decks together. Endless Ranks just feeding me more tokens for free each turn. Good stuff.
This episode is awesome! The pure comedy with Graveborn Muse and “too much CARD DRAW” 🤣😂😂
Relentless Dead is best played mid/late game with a carrion feeder/instant speed sac and enough mana to use your graveyard as a response. I.E. Overcharged Amalgam, Undead Augur, Vengeful Dead.
The double feature Endless Ranks is pretty much emblematic of everything wrong with the art direction in Double Feature.
First of all, I play grimgrin not to be a hipster but because he is actually a dominant force of nature. Second of all Varina has got to be the strongest zombie commander. I had to take my Varina apart because my group just couldnt keep up. Wilhelt, scarab god, not mentioned but sidisi brood tyrant, both gisas, they just couldnt hang.
What you guys should do is have someone make you all identical basic zombie decks (with nothing rated s or a) and then you can personalise you deck with 15 cards each. see who's s cards are the best!
I recommend y'all trying to do a podcast where you collectively build a zombie deck. That way you can put some of these grades in perspective. cause when you are trying to slot them into a deck they don't seem as good as they do in passive conversation(such as this podcast)
The Grimgrin disrespect 12 minutes in hurt 🥲
But I think people underestimate the power of having a sac outlet in the command zone, but my play group plays very medium power level, so I could just be out of touch 😅
My zombie deck is Grim Grin, just a big old pile of zombies and tokens. i love it! Grim Grin still puts in work at my table.
I wish the double feature frame went onto more cards that weren't just grayed out, it's a really nice frame.
My favorite Zombies: Undead Warchief, Balthor the Defiled, Undead Alchemist, Headless Rider. Shoutout to Deathbringer Thoctar as well.
Endless ranks of the dead is only for jank zombie decks for flavor. I would only add it to a deck where I don't want to win, but just feel cool. But flavor and art wise, it's easily one of my favorites. If only it was either a 2 mana card, or it was on a zombie body.
I gotta agree Endless Ranks of the Dead is definitely a D card, 4 mana to potentially do nothing, average scenario you get 2 then 3 tokens over the next two turns, might as well play diabolic tutor and find a good card
I love Tormod, the Desecrator and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces for my zombie deck. I really enjoy triggering tormod multiple times and Sakashima lets me potentially do that twice as much and enables other stuff as well! I also used to have a GB version with Tormod, since green lets me play lands from the graveyard and there's some sweet cards you can add.
I know you guys were over time but it seems like there are a lot of cards missing as a whole that could of been mentionned, or categories that could of been voted on
Like recurring creatures could of been one (with razorlash and master of death and the likes), non zombies good in zombies (like jadar, geralf, etc, or wand of orcus, dreadhorde invasion, liliana's mastery, nexroduality, most liliana planeswalkers, etc), no mention of archghohl of thraben? Midnight reaper? Havengul lich? Headless rider?
Tombstone Stairwell getting no love...Vengeful Dead and Noxious Ghoul hitting that S++ tier
Phyrexian Altar: *Laughs in Gravecrawler*
Buried Alive: *Laughs in flying Gravecrawler* (RE:Wonder)
Big crim can't hurt you, he's just a video.
Big Crim:
Wilhelt has such a massive advantage over the other Zombie tribal Commanders because, unlike them, he is a Zombie. Scarab God and Gisa and Geralf can’t take advantage of your Lords and other tribal support.
Varina way stronger :)
Back when I had a zombie EDH deck Zombie Master won me more games than any other lord.
For those asking, why would you not want to play a bunch of spells that create a bunch of 2/2 black zombies? What’s more fun than leading a massive legion of the undead?
Depending on the token, they can be used as sack outlets, meat shields, or with enough buffs, they can become considerable threats with flying, menace, deathtouch and hexproof.
Now we just need some red zombies! That way, they can potentially all have haste and or more “explosive” death triggers.
For underated zombie commanders, one of my personal favorites was Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. You can spit out tokens pretty consistently with him. And the ability to grow it by sacing zombies can let you commander damage someone out of the game. Always been one of my favorite cards in the format.
But.. but... my grimgrin! Honestly having a sac outlet and removal (when you attack you destroy a creature) in the command zone is awesome! Sidisi as a commander is not a zombie tribal commander, its a combo / ad nauseum commander
And yeah tomer sold me on removing endless ranks. Oh and no one plays sign in blood and read the bones anymore, just like we don't play think twice and stuff like that anymore
Seth, saying graveborn muse is too much draw and loss of life but playing phyrexian arena and black market connection is hilarious, he would not say no to having 2 or 3 phyrexian arena, lets not kid ourselves
I have a Tormod/Kraum list I really like. When I play tribal, I PLAY TRIBAL. 😂
I’ve played Tormod/Sakashima and it’s ridiculously good.
If I had to choose, I like the original colored version of endless ranks of the dead. The stained glass is on point.
@58:59 If you play with Ghoulcaller Gisa as your commander and you have a Noxious Ghoul in play you can board wipe pretty easy. Just tap and sack a buffed Champion of the Perished and all of a sudden every non-zombie creature gets -8/-8 or higher. It's my favorite and most successful board wipe strategy.
Lord of the undead was a special card for me too, I was convinced it was broken OP as a one of in my home built 85 card zombie tribal deck.
In light of Duskmourne being released, Grimgrin works quite well with most of the black cards. Either you sack them, they die, you get to manifest dread, or they die, and you just pay to bring them back with a finality counter.
I'm amazed no love for the Kraum/Tormod partner pair.
Also tomer is so wrong about relentless dead
Zombie commander player here, for anyone interested in playing high powered zombies read further:
I have 2 rules for my zombies deck, no planeswalkers and no non-zombies. Thats it.
Wilhelt is a combo piece and a phyrexian arena on a commander, so he's a huge target for people to get rid of. He's slower, and though he generates extra bodies often enough you're not swinging, so he's a "ill sit here and make zombies, and dig for my wincon" commander. I ran him as a turbo adnauseum deck searching for gravecrawler + phyrexian altar/rooftop storm + Acererak. He often had a lot of trouble dealing with interaction and in the end i figured he wasn't the optimal zombie commander.
So who is? Well...
Varina is the best for now. She's a 4/4 so she's difficult for people to get rid of, she gains you life which often than not you'll lose life for good cards like city of brass, vampiric tutor/imperial seal, etc. but her HUGE advantage is that she sculpts your hand and graveyard. Having 5 cards in hand, 2 of them zombies, allows me throw those zombies in the grave where they belong and allow me to dig for counterspells/combo pieces/answers to problems. The one downside she has that i've noticed is often by turn 6/7 i'm down to 1 or 2 cards in hand from the heavy interaction i have to do to keep up with CEDH decks.
As for the video referring to "no good white zombies" my 2 MVP's for white are wayward servant and corpse knight. Both being zombie combo pieces. Ive won turn 3 by pulling out gravecrawler +wayward servant + phyrexian altar.
Lastly with varina because of her sculpting it allows for me to play a higher mana curve of zombies, since they're going in the grave for my 1 -2 drop interaction spells. So ill run mikaeus the unhallowed, rothulk, sidisi undead vizier, wilhelt, god-eternal oketra, havengul lich, and my hand will just pop those babies into the grave for easy reanimation.
For anyone interested heres my deck list: www.moxfield.com/decks/rjUZSMdF6k6xG-Rv5d3MEw
A good pair in Grixis is Kraum, Ludevic's Opus and Tormod, the Desecrator .
My zombie deck is Varina. It is the 2nd deck I've ever made. Zombies are my favorite tribe
Overcharged amalgam with rooftop storm is a free counter everything 😜
I agree with Crim. my friend used zombie master and altar of dementia. fell in love with zombies ever since.
gravecrawler+phyrexian altar+ open the graves/headless rider/tormod/diregraf collosus = infinite zombies and mana, with sidisi in the command zone you can cast them to exploit themselves as many times as you want and cast anything you want from your deck. Also sidisi's power in a reanimator themed deck is underrated AF, they exploit themselves, go to the graveyard, and become a cheaper tutor any time you bring them back with necromancy, animate dead, or reanimate. Because zombies are so strong in combos, even in mono black, having a tutor in the command zone to find any missing piece you want becomes suuuuper strong. Mikaeus + plague belcher/skinrender + altar of dementia, headless rider + nim deathmantle +ashnods altar, and because you're in MB your devotion for gary bombs will be off the chart. Highly reccomend people put some respect on the S-tier ranking.
My zombie deck is kraum and tormod you get grixis colors, you get a combo tool with tormod and a card draw tool with kraum and I think the red zombies aren't as bad as some think.
Im just gonna say it, Richard is the funniest of goldfish crew. I like any pod cast he’s part of. Can’t wait for his kid to grow up so he can get back in commander clash.
I think Varina is being slept on, you work with it a bit and all of a sudden you draw 15 cards on a attack and only discard 5, if that isnt at least GOOD idk what to tell ya.
Varina is a great Zombie token commander, white lets you use "anointed procession" and her looting effect lets you dig for scarab god as your second commander who can then resurrect a lot of the cards you discarded to find him
Scarab god**
Like Tomer, my first built deck was a Trax and it has a huge soft spot for me. I recently changed the deck over to a Varina deck and it performs a lot better, but I still love my zombie assassin.
Varina is easily the strongest zombie commander. For exactly the reasons Tomer states. She enables everything zombies want to do while being scalable for power up to at least 8 and a variety of play styles. Been running her since release and she's easily the most fun deck I've built. Plus she gives you access to the most efficient removal in the format as well as the best zombie aristocrats, and Sevinne's Reclamation.
Tomer got a good point with Zombie and Spirit being a weird creature combo, but without knowing the lore I could imagine it being the resurrected spirit of a defeated zombie lord, which has more remnants of a human personality or maybe still has some sort of corrupted soul that could be resurrected. Another explanation would be a necromantic sort of soul exploit that partially resurrects a spirit, but in a way that it's basically only a zombie of its former personality/soul.
Awwww! No love for "Balthor The Defiled" as a repeatable recursion (as your mono black commander) with "Vengeful Dead" and "Noxious Ghoul" and sweet, sweet iconic cards such as the world bending "Tombstone Stairwell". With your zombies in and out of you GY "Crypt of Agadeem" for in and "Cabal Coffers" When out, Undead shenanigans aplenty. Oh "Gempalm polluter" also Throws another (quit beefy) zombie in the GY whilst one shotting an opponent for the funs. I enjoyed this upload, Zombies are my jam.
"Call to the Grave" is also a backbreaker if you can slam it down fast enough.
As someone who's been playing zombies since 2011, I definitely think y'all just ignored how sneakily powerful Gisa and Geralf are actually are. They stock up the grave every time you play them which is hugely relevant, and make all your cards far more resilient with their ability. Cards like Fell Stinger, Fleshbag Marauder, and Sidisi all get so much better when you can play them every turn. On top of that, they have the nice upside of not reading so powerful so they often get overlooked. When people do initial threat assessment at the table they often skip over the duo, and people rarely waste their spot removal on them, letting you continue to accrue value. And after field wipes they give you a way to rebuild your field easily even if your mass reanimation spell gets countered. Their only real weakness is not being a zombie themselves, but having played every zombie commander i think they're not all that far behind Wilhelt and in certain strategies they are a better commander than him
In regards to Tomer's questioning of graveborn muse being both a zombie and a spirit, Look at the art. It looks like there are two figures. One is a zombie and the other the spirit. Being a muse she's giving the zombie inspiration. The card should be renamed to Graveborn and Muse.
I did not see or I missed, they didn't talk about the cycling zombie that deals damage when cycled to the amount of zombies on board.
How is Rise of the Dread Marn not in this podcast at all? Someone boardwipes, you pay one mana and you poop a boatload or zombies all over the table.
I'm currently considering this card for Wilhelt deck. The only thing making me hesitate is the amount of Exile board wipes nowadays and it doesn't work with wilhelt's zombies for me to wipe myself for value.
I'm sorry Crim, defending Double Feature in *any way* is simply wrong, lol
This is my 2 colour dimir Field of the dead+Cabal manabase:
15 swamps (split of snow and normal)
1 snow island
1 basic island
Underground sea, watery grave, ice tunnel, tango dual and fetid pools. 5 duals with both types
Cabal coffers, cabal stronghold
urborg
field of the dead
9 fetches (7 duals and vista and fabled passage)
tolaria west (to tutor cabal/urborg/field/mana crypt)
36 total +expedition map
So basically every card is a swamp except field, tolaria west and those 2 islands and the cabal lands
Feel free to comment on any improvements, notice that there are no command tower/morphic pool
This is the first time Tomer and I share similar opinions on cards. As someone that play zombie decks, his opinions were fairly spot on.
Varina is a lot better than you guys think. Can play Ratadrabik, Zombie Oketra, Mondrak/Anointed Procession, Smotherhing Tithe, all the great white removal richard hates, lol.
Then there's the interaction with draw doublers like A. Archive and Teferi's Ageless, the shear ability to dig for combos, unburial rights is great to discard and then flash back to reanimate something else you discarded... there's just so much gas in this deck. If all else fails you can use her second ability to generate a ton of tokens, and this is a great deck for Cathar's Crusade.
I thought her design was pretty random until I actually built the deck though, so I understand.
My Zombie deck has gone from Korlash (B) -> Varina (WUB) -> Tormod + Ravos (WB).
I love the alt art Korlash, but the deck couldn't make up its mind whether it was zombies, voltron, or swamps-matter. I rebuilt to Varina, to focus on tribal lords and recursion, but there were too many choices with two extra colors and turns out I didn't enjoy looting (would rather cast the zombies than feel like I'm just digging for combo/synergy).
But I'd played WB Zombie Solemnity the one time I built a Standard deck, really liked Wayward Servant (plus Binding Mummy, and a fun-of Unconventional Tactics), and in part was trying to relive that. Plus God-Eternal Oketra is a house. So I pulled it out of mothballs and trimmed the U. Tormod was a decent source of tokens, even with no stylistic changes. Ravos was the best way I could find to get W, since he is an anthem, fits the raise dead theme, and in doing so enables Tormod pretty well.
I think Varina made a better commander, but just didn't click with me as well, having to fight against urges towards good stuff and control + mass reanimator. Plus it freed me up to try some other Esper deck, since I try not to duplicate CIs.
Necroduality Undead Alchemist Etrrnal skylord lich lord of unx Cleaver Skaab secrets of the dead Havengul Runebinder Poppet stitcher Havengul lich laboratoy Druge Military intelligence and Reconnaissance Mission.
I love zombies! Willhelt was one of my first commanders so this is going to be entertaining.
Slight tangent, does anyone know if we're still going to get the Deck Doctor episode? I was really looking forward to that one when it got teased but it's been a hot second.
Currently building intro decks for my kids and friends, Dimir zombies up next. I'm going with Wilhelt as commander and as few combos as possible. Make zombies, pump zombies, make them flying or menace, death touch and some graveyard recursion. It seems like a solid start for a new player with tribal decks as long as you don't go tutors and combos.
But I got to say, 2023 did not give many new interesting zombies. 😭 And for being two sets of horror themed settings in Innistrad it sure didn't give that many zombie relevant cards. Hoping for 2024 to get some zombie love.
"Are there even any green zombie cards?" *Polukranos Unchained; Storrev, Devkarin Lich; Underrealm Lich; Ghoulcaller's Harvest; and Grizzly Ghoul have left the chat*
I've always liked Varina. Maybe because my first ever deck was Aminatou and she was in that Precon. Anyway, I think that looting is excellent especially in a graveyard deck. White also gives you access to two token doublers now. Also, Teferi's Ageless Insight and Alhammarret's Archive are nuts in any commander that is doing something card neutral like Varina or Aminatou.
I can’t believe you didn’t mention Necroduality! That card is so fun
Not to mention that it's like the best card in the deck.
i just abolutely adore this podcast group, i really cant watch other MTG podcasts since i started watch the goldfish group :)))))
For reference, I only found two zombies that were mono green, unless you go into golgari, in which there were several. God eternal Rhonas, and Ghoultree are the only mono green zombies I found.
Tomer, Im with you on Endless Ranks of the Dead alllll the way
And Seth, Shivan Dragon is easily the most iconic dragon in the game. I havent seen many of those on spelltable
sorry, but why no Corpse Harvester, It is one of, if not the best zombie tutor. Or withered Wretch, the best zombie graveyard hate even outside tribal decks
I got back into the game and started playing commander when grimgrin came out. I got into commander and dimir because of grimgrin. Ive had a zombie edh deck ever since, played with every zombie commander, and played evwry type of zombie deck. I am an expert on this subject.
Best commander is easily willhelt. Its zombie with training wheels, its so easy. My fav is gisa and geralf for flavor.
Best card is gravecrawler. Cryptbreaker is best for a different reason. It's insane card draw.
Endless ranks of the dead is a trap card. The 1/ 12 games youll get 2+ zombies, and if its ever a problem its destroyed and youre sad.
Best lord in entirely up to your playstyle as well as meta. It was diregraf captain. Death baron might be the most important overall honestly. Zombie master is maybe best on a heavy black meta. Lord of the accursed is likely the best to give evasion to your army if youre wide and tall which is easy to do.