From an early age I wanted to teach and graduated from high school with the idea of being a Social Studies teacher. When I got to college I encountered Philosophy and was pretty much instantly converted. While I enjoyed History and the social sciences, Philosophy I found was at the root of all of those disciplines and so my dream became to just teach Philosophy for the rest of my life. I graduated college with a Philosophy degree and moved on to a master's program (paid for, thankfully) and continued my studies. Now, being utterly engrossed in Philosophy, unwrapped in its valorized vision of its role in culture, I was in no way thinking of the practicalities of all of this. I never researched the job market. I just assumed that once I got my PhD I'd move on to a tenure track position, ascend the ivory tower and spend the next 40 years inducing an existential crisis in freshman as they learned they were going to die someday. The cracks began forming when I went to a Philosophy department lecture and reunion at my undergrad. I got to see fellow classmates from the past who had gone on to get their PhDs. They were all universal in saying that the path they took was not worth it. The job market was awful, tenure tracks were disappearing, and associate professorships paid less than minimum wage in many places. All of this was in the late 90's and early 2000s. I finally started doing research and connecting with others online and was horrified at what I was seeing. I think part of what shaped my perspective is that the Philosophy classes in undergrad were very popular, filled to the brim with very charismatic professors that made Philosophy vibrant (it was a Continental style school) and profound. Still, only a handful of students each year were graduating with Philosophy degrees. Being one of the few Philosophy majors, I felt like I was this super rare individual who was following the golden path of wisdom, a defender of culture and reason. Lost to me was that there were likewise a handful of other students graduating every year at hundreds (thousands?) of colleges and universities around the country and world. While still rare in the population as a whole, there was a massive oversupply of idealistic young philosophers being created every year. The nail in the coffin for me was when I read that in my town a Philosophy professor position had opened up and over 600 people applied for it. I had to concede that continuing on this path was not realistic. While I see myself as a bright and passionate person, I felt like one of my biggest qualities of teaching Philosophy was simply that I was WILLING to do that, unlike the vast majority of people in the world. I always saw myself as well suited as being a wise, mentoring, somewhat absentminded professor. Now it was clear that I needed to be a phenomenal intellectual with a powerhouse personality, and it certainly didn't help that I was a middle class white man. The pressure was on for faculty to have greater diversity, and if huge numbers of people were showing up for positions, I had to be so good that I could convince the board to ignore the diversity issue. So I stepped away, and went back to the idea of teaching high school Social Studies. It did take me a few years to grieve where I thought I was going, but eventually I got my teaching license. I try to inject Philosophy into my classes, but it is very limited in scope, and of course you're not really allowed to induce existential crises into high school students! Regret is not the right word I have for the path I took. I'm teaching, which is what I always wanted to do. I do wish that I was given more advice and mentorship in the choices I was making as an undergrad. I know that I of course should have done my own research on the practicalities, but I do push back a little in that the culture of my undergrad program was one of valorization of the discipline, and I was temperamentally drawn to that emotional framework. It just would have been nice for someone to provide a reality check for me.
I’ve always kicked myself for not studying what I love and got a business degree (in order to get a job) which is the biggest regret of my life. If you could do it all over again (I’m assuming studying philosophy is what you loved most), what degree would you get at college?
@33:28 Thank you for your honesty, Dr. Peña-Guzmán. Dr. Greg Sadler recently put together a very, in my opinion, dishonest video regarding academic philosophy. It's reassuring to hear your honesty. Sincerely.
@@lonelycubicle Sorry for missing your question before. It's a good question. The ambitious thing would be to double major, say history or education plus philosophy so that I could hedge my bets in terms of career paths and be able to more quickly get into a teaching role. That was always the intended goal, to teach. If I could curate my education in light of my life, I'd swap out some of the philosophy classes with some computer programming classes. Not too much, just enough for me to be able to write enough code for my own projects, not for any professional reasons. Also a class in statistics. There have been so many moments in life where I wanted to analyze data, but I didn't have the skills to do it as I would like.
"What do you do with unstructured time?" - my first question to people who want to go to grad school. There's always something more pressing/interesting/exciting to do than work on your thesis or dissertation. I would add that you have to be writing ALL THE TIME if you want a position (or retain a position) in academia. I'm in psychology and we have 30-50 applicants for any job opening - philosophy has 200+ for any position, so it is competitive! As Mae West said, "You gotta have a gimmick." Good luck!
This is a good question to ask people, though we don't share the perspective that "you have to be writing ALL THE TIME" if that's meant to designate much or even all of one's unstructured time. We think free time is essential, and both of us have been successful at writing and publishing in academia while being protective of free time for hobbies, travel, and time off.
I'm so glad you guys decided to address this one! I currently serve as my department's placement director, and conversations on the ethics of encouraging undergraduates to pursue graduate school have been a norm. Whenever undergraduates approach me to ask about grad school I try to be as transparent as the two of you were in this video. I don't tell them not to do it, but I encourage them to learn as much as they can about the stakes and the job market so they can make a decision with their eyes open. I do hope that graduate programs will continue to exist in the long run. The production of humanistic knowledge, I think, is more essential than ever given the various denialisms that currently militate against our fields; and graduate programs still are the best thing we have for training the historians and philosophers and cultural critics who will educate future generations. The big task, in my view, is how to make graduate programs functional, ethical, and professionally instrumental, so that they provide proper training, do not exploit students for their labor, and effectively help them channel their new training into viable careers. I am sympathetic towards Leonard Cassuto and Robert Weisbuch's view that what we need is an expansion in our notion of what intellectual work is -- that there are careers beyond teaching and academic research that genuinely employ the kinds of knowledge that PhD students have, and that such careers can be fulfilling as long as we change the culture that treats the tenure-track job as the only mark of success. In addition, I think we need to redesign graduate programs so that students get tailored training for these additional careers without extending time to degree. That's very hard to do, as the money is always lacking and the resistance to change is strong. That said, we do have a number of graduate students who came into our program without aiming at the tenure track, and who took advantage of opportunities to learn how to do podcasting, engage in digital humanities projects, serve as members of learned societies or academic presses, and so on; and I've been trying to validate those choices and careers not as second best but as genuine examples of intellectual success.
I earned an M.A. in English years ago, and I received a full-ride scholarship (for teaching Freshman English classes while I was in grad school). While earning my M.A. allowed me to read, study, and write at a higher level than I did as an undergraduate, overall it was not a good decision. I should not have spent two to three years bogged down in that academic work, and then three years or more working for poverty wages while I was teaching in an adjunct capacity.
Being forced to write and read faster than I feel comfortable with is what it boils down to for me. If I like a book of philosophy it will take me a whole summer to read it, and certainly my opinion of it is going to change so why record my opinion about it?
true, i rarely read philosophy anymore, for the obvious reason that most classic texts are nearly inscrutable without professional help ... i mean most are debated yet after 100s of years ... and anyways, these days why spend 20 hours scratching your head when an expert on social media can clarify the basics in 20 minutes! obviously there is a place for reading, but so much is being synthesized with current events and new discoveries in real time that it's not often not pragmatic to read unless one is professional lycommitted/impelled to do so, imo
@@clumsydad7158 you don't need professional help to understand philosophy. You just need to read contemporary books of philosophy and later you go back to them. Listening to 20 minutes of videos about ancient thinkers is not a guarantee of true thoughts.
Thirty Two Years ago I gained a fascination for Philosophy. That resulted in me going to University to study Philosophy. I gained a Bachelor’s degree and went on to do Post Graduate study. I ended up withdrawing because of family commitments and because I had lost the fascination and joy of Philosophy. I liked reading and I liked going to classes but I didn’t like writing. I found writing boring and lonely. I also knew I didn’t want to become a Philosophy Lecturer at University. That being said, I still read Philosophy and found an area of Philosophy ( Philosophy of Religion ) that greatly interests me. If you don’t like writing and you don’t want to be a Lecturer at University, then don’t go to Graduate School.
I found it interesting that the format was similar to my experience getting a PhD in economics in the late 1970s. I imagine it is similar to other disciplines as well.
This was really insightful! I’m currently in the process of transferring into a philosophy undergrad after realising I have more passion for philosophy than any other field (especially business which is my current area of study). It’s very much been on my mind whether or not I’ll end up doing a postgrad. In some ways, I’d be keen to do it simply from the standpoint of expanding my expertise, but then, I do also wonder if independent learning isn’t just as (if not more) effective if knowledge is the goal. It’s very unfortunate that the financial aspect even has to come into play
As a 1975 Princeton philosophy undergraduate I was waived off pursuing graduate school. The exact same warnings of low pay, no jobs were given even then. Instead, I went to law school. My perspective is that professors do a disservice with such 'protective' advice to undergraduates. Any undergraduate interested in a philosophy PhD program should be encouraged and supported in their further pursuit of philosophy. That said, thank you both for a great discussion on the subject.
@@chenphilosophy Philosophy is a fascinating subject, and those lucky and talented enough to pursue it at an academic level should not be discouraged because of economics.
Really informative video! would be interested in something similar, but about advice on how to get into philosophy phd programs themselves. there is not very much information online, and the information that is there usually takes a strong bend towards analytic programs (most notably Alex Guerrero’s article on the daily nous).
If you want to be actively prevented from thinking philosophically or having a career then a graduate program in philosophy is a great option. But definitely don’t do it if you’re not interested in being a slave for a university.
great topic, and so much cross-specialization education and non-traditional work occurring in new forums, inside and outside of academia ... and so much available online that gets to the point and synthesizes, that one has to have that clear burning desire and detailed plan of investigative poignancy to pursue specialization in a trad U
Hi. Other than Emory, could you recommend any other universities in the US or Europe that has a similar doctoral program in Philosophy which integrated (MA + PhD) and stipend? I'm looking to concentrate on Philosophy of Science, Mind, or Epistemology. I'm kind of hesitant to go for Emory because on your videos, you said they focus on continental Philosophy. I hope you could help me. I live in the Philippines by the way.
Kind of a weird question, but assuming that we aren't going into an advanced degree, would it still be possible to engage in philosophical writing e.g. through publishing in academic journals or even full books? Personally, I made the mistake of going to a very challenging school for undergrad, so I don't think I have the grades for direct-entry PhD or the money for a masters... I would like to do this later in life... but is it possible to engage with philosophy in the meantime? If not through writing, is there any other 'publicly useful'/monetizable way to do this?
I hope you don't mind if I address this one, Bryce. I am in English rather than Philosophy, but the two worlds are quite similar in this regard. In answer to your question, it is certainly possible to publish both books and articles in academic journals or through academic presses without formal credentials, as long as you can produce work that meets the standards expected by peer review. The people reading your article for a journal don't know who you are: they just know what you've written, and if your article meets the standards of the profession, you will be getting the same feedback (and the same approval or rejection) you would had you been a graduate student or a professor. It's a little different with books, since presses may factor in your credentials before they decide to publish your book, but that's not unheard of either. Independent scholars are pretty much a thing, and they present at conferences and publish regularly. But here's the thing: it's really hard to write at that level without the formal training that graduate school gives you. Developing expertise in an academic discipline is hard and demands a conducive setting as well as a certain kind of pressure that graduate school is designed to offer. One learns a lot by simply sitting in a classroom with one's peers and receiving their feedback on your work, as well as offering feedback on their work. The autonomous pursuit of expertise is not impossible, but it's harder, especially if you are doing it as a side thing. You can, of course, write for popular venues, and there are people who do that well; but it's harder to enter the academic world without academic training. On the bright side, you don't need to be too worried about your grades in undergrad. Admission to a PhD program is not as strictly based on scores as admission to college. I myself don't care that much about the scores of applicants to our program; what I want to see is a good writing sample and a statement of purpose that evinces preparedness and awareness of what graduate school is. If you have strong documents, a relatively low GPA will not prevent you from getting into programs.
You are allowed to publish philosophy books outside of academia. They just might not get the recognition that you may want. Also, if your into it just for the learning experience, you could try auditing some college courses where you don't pay, don't have to do assignments, etc, you can just sit it on class. Of course, there's always clubs as well.
@@joshuaim3263 I agree. The only thing I'll add is that there are many philosophy resources on the internet for free. If you're dedicated enough, you can learn a lot through your own initiative.
I think students should know that it is becoming more common that community colleges require PhDs for their professors. Also there are some really great funded MA programs out there!!!
Would you consider it be possible to do philosophy in an academic setting with a graduate degree in something more adjacent to philosophy, say social anthropology or economics?
You could always incorporate philosophy into your other work, but I don't know if you'll be able to get hired by a philosophy dept with that background. I know there are philosophers who also have a PhD in economics, so I suspect they'd have more options (e.g. Erik Angner).
If someone who had a bachelors degree in philosophy were independently wealthy and had an excellent worth ethic, would they be better off spending the next 5-8 years independently studying philosophy from academic journals or texts (or whatever happens to align with their field of interest) or going to grad school? Grad school gives guidance but it also gives a lot of extra coursework and teaching duties.
Our take would be to go to grad school, given that learning in community with peers and from experts is important. Of course, it depends on the particular graduate program!
As someone from a country in Southeast Asia, can I also take that same route in Emory? I mean I have no means to fund my studies but I want to pursue a PhD in Philosophy.
@38:27 Thank you for your honesty, Dr. Peña-Guzmán! It’s shameful to see these privileged professors so full of themselves! Thank you for telling it like it is!
Humanities in general is probably the most difficult road in all of academia. In a way it keeps those fields purer where only the passionate can reach the end. You have to really be obsessively in love with your target PHD field. I wonder if any studies have compared the failure rate in academia to professional sports.
"Humanities in general is probably the most difficult road in all of academia. " Except the modern subjects. Then it's all BS and ideology, talked about in a fashionable way
Dr. Ellie Anderson and Dr. David Peña-Guzmán, thank you for sharing your wisdom. I have been binging on the content of your TH-cam channel. I offer a constructive criticism if I may. for your vlog sessions you need multiple camera setup. Especially, for two talking heads, you need at least three cameras. Two closeup angles and one wide shot. You could of course add more camera angles for creative visuals and adding immersive story telling.
How likely is it for someone who did not get their bachelors in philosophy to get accepted into a philosophy masters program? I completed a political science major and a philosophy minor but the latter has become my absolute focus.
If you did well in your philosophy coursework, it's not unlikely. Many M.A. programs exist to generate revenue for philosophy departments, so they're willing to accept more applicants. If you have strong letters of recommendation, a good writing sample, and a clear statement of purpose, you're very likely to be accepted. I would highly encourage looking up M.A. programs that provide funding, because it's not a good financial decision to go into debt for an M.A. that offers little return for the investment.
I finished my Masters in Philsophy in 9 months and was on track to ginish my PhD within 2.5 years at a good U.S. university. I dont agree it takes 5 years min.
Is it worth going to grad school even at 40? I had to drop from university because of family, and now that I have more time, I went back to finish my undergrad, I am in my last year of receiving my degree, but I am wondering now if it is worth going to grad school even after 40 years of age? If anyone has gone to do a master's or a PhD, how was it?
It's hard to give advice on such a personal level because I don't know all the details of your life, but I don't see why you couldn't. I did a MA first and then a PhD. MA was one full year, and the PhD took 6 years. One thing that might be different is the age gap. You probably won't want to hang out with all these 20-something-year-olds, so you may feel a little isolated from the rest of the group.
What does "worth it" encompass for you? If you don't mind being dirt poor for 5 years and having no job at the end, then go for it. I just finished my PhD at 36 years of age, and found it quite daunting being in the job market competing with people who had a traditional work history. There's a lot of misconceptions from employers about postgrad, ranging from the impression that you just stayed back in school a few years, to the idea you're a intimidating genius. If you have wealth from another source - savings, investments, a rich spouse - then a masters or a phd could be a fun and rewarding hobby, but in my opinion I think it can't offer you anything particularly practical in terms of a life path.
@@theentirepopulationofaustr6046 Thank you so much for your honest and thorough message. I truly appreciate it! The market is indeed bad at the moment, which is one of the reasons I am still thinking about it. I have heard a similar story to yours, which makes it daunting to even think of pursuing a further degree. If it was maybe in a different field like computer science or engineering, I wouldn't give it any thought, but for the humanities, you have to consider the difficulty of finding a job. The costs are too high to just do it as a hobby. Anyhow, thank you again for your honest comment! I wish you all the best! There is something out there for everyone so don't give up! :)
Once upon a time in a small town nestled near the coast, there lived a young girl named Lily. Lily was a curious and compassionate child with an immense love for all creatures, big and small. She had a special bond with nature and spent most of her days exploring the nearby forests and meadows. One sunny afternoon, as Lily wandered near a muddy ditch on the outskirts of town, she heard a faint squawk. Curiosity piqued, she followed the sound until she stumbled upon a nearly lifeless cockatoo, its vibrant white feathers caked with mud. The poor bird seemed exhausted and on the brink of giving up. Without hesitation, Lily rushed to the bird's side. Gently cradling the cockatoo in her hands, she whispered comforting words, reassuring it that help had arrived. Lily carefully carried the fragile creature back to her home, a cozy cottage surrounded by blooming flowers and chirping birds. Lily's parents, seeing the sorry state of the cockatoo, worried that it might not survive. However, Lily refused to give up on the feathery stranger. She cleaned the bird's delicate feathers, bathed it with warm water, and fed it nourishing fruits. Day by day, the cockatoo regained its strength and began to trust Lily, forming a deep bond between them. As the cockatoo grew healthier, it surprised Lily with its intelligence. It mimicked Lily's words and sounds, quickly learning new melodies and amusing her with its playful antics. One day, while Lily was reading a book on philosophy, the cockatoo began to mimic her, repeating profound phrases about the nature of reality, beauty, and love. Lily was astonished. She realized that her feathered friend had become an unexpected teacher of wisdom. Excited by this revelation, Lily decided to capture these moments and share them with the world. She started filming the cockatoo and created a TH-cam channel dedicated to its teachings on platonic philosophy. The videos became an instant sensation, captivating viewers worldwide. People were mesmerized by the cockatoo's profound thoughts, conveyed through its charming mimicking and Lily's explanations. The bird, now known as Plato, had inadvertently become an ambassador for intellectual discourse and deep contemplation. Plato's TH-cam channel attracted a diverse audience, ranging from philosophy enthusiasts to those seeking solace and inspiration. Plato's teachings resonated with people, reminding them of the power of knowledge and the beauty of introspection. Gradually, Plato's popularity grew, and he became an online sensation, surpassing millions of subscribers. Lily and Plato embarked on a journey of enlightenment, sharing profound discussions, exploring classical works, and encouraging viewers to ponder life's greatest mysteries. They organized virtual seminars, engaging in dialogues about morality, ethics, and the nature of the human soul. However, amidst the fame and admiration, Lily and Plato never forgot their humble beginnings. They continued to live a simple life in their cottage, surrounded by the tranquility of nature. Lily, now older, pursued her studies in philosophy, inspired by her extraordinary companion. She dedicated herself to nurturing the minds of future generations, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking and contemplation. Plato's teachings extended far beyond TH-cam, inspiring people to seek knowledge and embrace the pursuit of truth. The cockatoo, once near death in a muddy ditch, had become a symbol of resilience, intellectual curiosity, and the power of compassion. And so, Lily and Plato continued to spread their message of enlightenment, reminding the world that wisdom could emerge from the most unexpected places, even from a nearly dead cockatoo rescued by a young girl with an unwavering love for all creatures.
The disappearance of comps in philosophy PhD programs has really weakened the discipline and cheapened the degree. I imagine that you are both better off for having gone through them.
Today. Absolutely not. Find a trade to make enough money that AI is not going to end. Since you are a Philosopher, by reading this, you always will be one. I am 60 and was a B.A. in Philosophy. Survived through restaurants. Always read and changed. Have always followed what philosophy professors are writing about in the 10 elite universities. A nice job, if you are guaranteed it, but you are not. My study of Philosophy has led me to conclude that there are only 2 Essential Questions a philosopher should study with their passion. 1. Does a "God" exist? Yes or No? Act out your responsible actions, realizing our primate nature often gets us in trouble with co-workers. 2. If a Creator exists, is it 1 life with a judgement as the Monotheistic Religions proclaim, or, is it many lifetimes of Karma working its way out to a final Enlightenment? P.S. I will give you a true tip. If I met a Philosopher of Language who spoke about the "Truth Claims of the Causal Logic", on a Cruise Ship, I would go out of my way to seduce his wife, out of principle. 😊
I don’t see graduate school as particularly useful because of the rapid spread of mobile devices outfitted with connectionist hardware architecture. Anglo-American philosophy is focused on language issues affected by logical explorations. That work seems unusable in using new communications tools. This takes out a lot of U.S. schools. Continental thinking lifts off of the writing practice that holds back Anglo-American philosophical work. And by doing that can’t address how the tools expression develop. Instead focusing in upon inner consciousness as if speculation is enough. The question of realism versus anti-realism a very Marxist concept eludes Continental philosophy. Tools of expression imply a common ground with writing, but also with carrying about to know the whole of saying reality. Hence wholeness ought to capture philosophical attention but seems left to religiosity as if walls of thinking were there in philosophy.
As undergraduate, I advice: do not do this to yourself. Keep studying philosophy if you are interested, but it doesn't fit modern academical formula - and the efforts it does to conform this publication-driven world can make you feel - if you respect yourself - the lowest trickster.
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From an early age I wanted to teach and graduated from high school with the idea of being a Social Studies teacher. When I got to college I encountered Philosophy and was pretty much instantly converted. While I enjoyed History and the social sciences, Philosophy I found was at the root of all of those disciplines and so my dream became to just teach Philosophy for the rest of my life. I graduated college with a Philosophy degree and moved on to a master's program (paid for, thankfully) and continued my studies.
Now, being utterly engrossed in Philosophy, unwrapped in its valorized vision of its role in culture, I was in no way thinking of the practicalities of all of this. I never researched the job market. I just assumed that once I got my PhD I'd move on to a tenure track position, ascend the ivory tower and spend the next 40 years inducing an existential crisis in freshman as they learned they were going to die someday.
The cracks began forming when I went to a Philosophy department lecture and reunion at my undergrad. I got to see fellow classmates from the past who had gone on to get their PhDs. They were all universal in saying that the path they took was not worth it. The job market was awful, tenure tracks were disappearing, and associate professorships paid less than minimum wage in many places. All of this was in the late 90's and early 2000s.
I finally started doing research and connecting with others online and was horrified at what I was seeing. I think part of what shaped my perspective is that the Philosophy classes in undergrad were very popular, filled to the brim with very charismatic professors that made Philosophy vibrant (it was a Continental style school) and profound.
Still, only a handful of students each year were graduating with Philosophy degrees. Being one of the few Philosophy majors, I felt like I was this super rare individual who was following the golden path of wisdom, a defender of culture and reason. Lost to me was that there were likewise a handful of other students graduating every year at hundreds (thousands?) of colleges and universities around the country and world. While still rare in the population as a whole, there was a massive oversupply of idealistic young philosophers being created every year.
The nail in the coffin for me was when I read that in my town a Philosophy professor position had opened up and over 600 people applied for it. I had to concede that continuing on this path was not realistic. While I see myself as a bright and passionate person, I felt like one of my biggest qualities of teaching Philosophy was simply that I was WILLING to do that, unlike the vast majority of people in the world. I always saw myself as well suited as being a wise, mentoring, somewhat absentminded professor. Now it was clear that I needed to be a phenomenal intellectual with a powerhouse personality, and it certainly didn't help that I was a middle class white man. The pressure was on for faculty to have greater diversity, and if huge numbers of people were showing up for positions, I had to be so good that I could convince the board to ignore the diversity issue.
So I stepped away, and went back to the idea of teaching high school Social Studies. It did take me a few years to grieve where I thought I was going, but eventually I got my teaching license. I try to inject Philosophy into my classes, but it is very limited in scope, and of course you're not really allowed to induce existential crises into high school students!
Regret is not the right word I have for the path I took. I'm teaching, which is what I always wanted to do. I do wish that I was given more advice and mentorship in the choices I was making as an undergrad. I know that I of course should have done my own research on the practicalities, but I do push back a little in that the culture of my undergrad program was one of valorization of the discipline, and I was temperamentally drawn to that emotional framework. It just would have been nice for someone to provide a reality check for me.
I’ve always kicked myself for not studying what I love and got a business degree (in order to get a job) which is the biggest regret of my life.
If you could do it all over again (I’m assuming studying philosophy is what you loved most), what degree would you get at college?
@33:28 Thank you for your honesty, Dr. Peña-Guzmán. Dr. Greg Sadler recently put together a very, in my opinion, dishonest video regarding academic philosophy. It's reassuring to hear your honesty. Sincerely.
Thanks for the essay. Shan it's all BS. But I did enjoy the read. I don't often read fiction 😏
@@JuntusOrothon Why on earth would I make all of that up?
@@lonelycubicle Sorry for missing your question before. It's a good question. The ambitious thing would be to double major, say history or education plus philosophy so that I could hedge my bets in terms of career paths and be able to more quickly get into a teaching role. That was always the intended goal, to teach. If I could curate my education in light of my life, I'd swap out some of the philosophy classes with some computer programming classes. Not too much, just enough for me to be able to write enough code for my own projects, not for any professional reasons. Also a class in statistics. There have been so many moments in life where I wanted to analyze data, but I didn't have the skills to do it as I would like.
"What do you do with unstructured time?" - my first question to people who want to go to grad school. There's always something more pressing/interesting/exciting to do than work on your thesis or dissertation. I would add that you have to be writing ALL THE TIME if you want a position (or retain a position) in academia. I'm in psychology and we have 30-50 applicants for any job opening - philosophy has 200+ for any position, so it is competitive! As Mae West said, "You gotta have a gimmick." Good luck!
Socrates would not get a position in Academia. He was not fond of writing.
@@TheMirabillis That's a valuable insight. He'd also have difficulty learning to drive a car and program in Python.
This is a good question to ask people, though we don't share the perspective that "you have to be writing ALL THE TIME" if that's meant to designate much or even all of one's unstructured time. We think free time is essential, and both of us have been successful at writing and publishing in academia while being protective of free time for hobbies, travel, and time off.
It’s wonderful to see this new format and both of you together ❤
I'm so glad you guys decided to address this one! I currently serve as my department's placement director, and conversations on the ethics of encouraging undergraduates to pursue graduate school have been a norm. Whenever undergraduates approach me to ask about grad school I try to be as transparent as the two of you were in this video. I don't tell them not to do it, but I encourage them to learn as much as they can about the stakes and the job market so they can make a decision with their eyes open.
I do hope that graduate programs will continue to exist in the long run. The production of humanistic knowledge, I think, is more essential than ever given the various denialisms that currently militate against our fields; and graduate programs still are the best thing we have for training the historians and philosophers and cultural critics who will educate future generations. The big task, in my view, is how to make graduate programs functional, ethical, and professionally instrumental, so that they provide proper training, do not exploit students for their labor, and effectively help them channel their new training into viable careers.
I am sympathetic towards Leonard Cassuto and Robert Weisbuch's view that what we need is an expansion in our notion of what intellectual work is -- that there are careers beyond teaching and academic research that genuinely employ the kinds of knowledge that PhD students have, and that such careers can be fulfilling as long as we change the culture that treats the tenure-track job as the only mark of success. In addition, I think we need to redesign graduate programs so that students get tailored training for these additional careers without extending time to degree. That's very hard to do, as the money is always lacking and the resistance to change is strong. That said, we do have a number of graduate students who came into our program without aiming at the tenure track, and who took advantage of opportunities to learn how to do podcasting, engage in digital humanities projects, serve as members of learned societies or academic presses, and so on; and I've been trying to validate those choices and careers not as second best but as genuine examples of intellectual success.
open wide papi.....
Marcel Proust is just chilling on the spine of that book trying to decide if he should go to grad school
I earned an M.A. in English years ago, and I received a full-ride scholarship (for teaching Freshman English classes while I was in grad school). While earning my M.A. allowed me to read, study, and write at a higher level than I did as an undergraduate, overall it was not a good decision. I should not have spent two to three years bogged down in that academic work, and then three years or more working for poverty wages while I was teaching in an adjunct capacity.
in my final yr of my philosophy major...you guys have BEEN SO MUCH HELPFUL. THANK YOU.
Awesome! Good luck!
I got some great advice from my thesis advisor when I was getting an MA in philosophy: "Don't do it unless you absolutely have to."
Hahaha what a great advice.😁
This is pretty much what I say.
Being forced to write and read faster than I feel comfortable with is what it boils down to for me. If I like a book of philosophy it will take me a whole summer to read it, and certainly my opinion of it is going to change so why record my opinion about it?
true, i rarely read philosophy anymore, for the obvious reason that most classic texts are nearly inscrutable without professional help ... i mean most are debated yet after 100s of years ... and anyways, these days why spend 20 hours scratching your head when an expert on social media can clarify the basics in 20 minutes! obviously there is a place for reading, but so much is being synthesized with current events and new discoveries in real time that it's not often not pragmatic to read unless one is professional lycommitted/impelled to do so, imo
@@clumsydad7158 you don't need professional help to understand philosophy. You just need to read contemporary books of philosophy and later you go back to them. Listening to 20 minutes of videos about ancient thinkers is not a guarantee of true thoughts.
@@frederickwalzer5555 of course, there are no guarantees. haha, and well, i'm not a genius, so i takes all da helps i can get! peace bro
@@clumsydad7158 Agreed.
Thirty Two Years ago I gained a fascination for Philosophy. That resulted in me going to University to study Philosophy. I gained a Bachelor’s degree and went on to do Post Graduate study. I ended up withdrawing because of family commitments and because I had lost the fascination and joy of Philosophy. I liked reading and I liked going to classes but I didn’t like writing. I found writing boring and lonely. I also knew I didn’t want to become a Philosophy Lecturer at University.
That being said, I still read Philosophy and found an area of Philosophy ( Philosophy of Religion ) that greatly interests me. If you don’t like writing and you don’t want to be a Lecturer at University, then don’t go to Graduate School.
But writing philosophy is probably more important than reading in the end. Writing will make the philosopher.
27:33 27:33
I found it interesting that the format was similar to my experience getting a PhD in economics in the late 1970s. I imagine it is similar to other disciplines as well.
This was really insightful! I’m currently in the process of transferring into a philosophy undergrad after realising I have more passion for philosophy than any other field (especially business which is my current area of study). It’s very much been on my mind whether or not I’ll end up doing a postgrad. In some ways, I’d be keen to do it simply from the standpoint of expanding my expertise, but then, I do also wonder if independent learning isn’t just as (if not more) effective if knowledge is the goal. It’s very unfortunate that the financial aspect even has to come into play
As a 1975 Princeton philosophy undergraduate I was waived off pursuing graduate school. The exact same warnings of low pay, no jobs were given even then. Instead, I went to law school. My perspective is that professors do a disservice with such 'protective' advice to undergraduates. Any undergraduate interested in a philosophy PhD program should be encouraged and supported in their further pursuit of philosophy. That said, thank you both for a great discussion on the subject.
Why do you think it's a disservice, if you don't mind me asking?
@@chenphilosophy Philosophy is a fascinating subject, and those lucky and talented enough to pursue it at an academic level should not be discouraged because of economics.
But the problem is that nowadays its basically impossible to survive with the field of study.
Really informative video! would be interested in something similar, but about advice on how to get into philosophy phd programs themselves. there is not very much information online, and the information that is there usually takes a strong bend towards analytic programs (most notably Alex Guerrero’s article on the daily nous).
Thanks for doing this! I’ve been wanting you guys to do such a video for a bit now.
If you have rich parents you should.
😂😂😂 A pretty expensive luxury. Not just the money, but also the time and effort investment. It could be really worthwhile if one's passionate
No, even then.
ergh
I agree. I met some friends in college, their rich parents paid rent, insurance, car, etc they only had part-time to pay their phone bills. That's it.
Haha. You'd definitely have more options if you had rich parents!
If you want to be actively prevented from thinking philosophically or having a career then a graduate program in philosophy is a great option. But definitely don’t do it if you’re not interested in being a slave for a university.
Instead of looking for a Masters to do, I just need to look for fully-funded PhD programs! Thank you!!
The question today is: Should I go to college at all? Short answer: No. If you love anything for its own sake, you can do much better on your own.
great topic, and so much cross-specialization education and non-traditional work occurring in new forums, inside and outside of academia ... and so much available online that gets to the point and synthesizes, that one has to have that clear burning desire and detailed plan of investigative poignancy to pursue specialization in a trad U
Agreed. There are so many resources on the internet for free. You can really learn a lot if you have the drive.
Hi. Other than Emory, could you recommend any other universities in the US or Europe that has a similar doctoral program in Philosophy which integrated (MA + PhD) and stipend?
I'm looking to concentrate on Philosophy of Science, Mind, or Epistemology. I'm kind of hesitant to go for Emory because on your videos, you said they focus on continental Philosophy. I hope you could help me.
I live in the Philippines by the way.
Kind of a weird question, but assuming that we aren't going into an advanced degree, would it still be possible to engage in philosophical writing e.g. through publishing in academic journals or even full books? Personally, I made the mistake of going to a very challenging school for undergrad, so I don't think I have the grades for direct-entry PhD or the money for a masters... I would like to do this later in life... but is it possible to engage with philosophy in the meantime? If not through writing, is there any other 'publicly useful'/monetizable way to do this?
I hope you don't mind if I address this one, Bryce. I am in English rather than Philosophy, but the two worlds are quite similar in this regard. In answer to your question, it is certainly possible to publish both books and articles in academic journals or through academic presses without formal credentials, as long as you can produce work that meets the standards expected by peer review. The people reading your article for a journal don't know who you are: they just know what you've written, and if your article meets the standards of the profession, you will be getting the same feedback (and the same approval or rejection) you would had you been a graduate student or a professor. It's a little different with books, since presses may factor in your credentials before they decide to publish your book, but that's not unheard of either. Independent scholars are pretty much a thing, and they present at conferences and publish regularly.
But here's the thing: it's really hard to write at that level without the formal training that graduate school gives you. Developing expertise in an academic discipline is hard and demands a conducive setting as well as a certain kind of pressure that graduate school is designed to offer. One learns a lot by simply sitting in a classroom with one's peers and receiving their feedback on your work, as well as offering feedback on their work. The autonomous pursuit of expertise is not impossible, but it's harder, especially if you are doing it as a side thing. You can, of course, write for popular venues, and there are people who do that well; but it's harder to enter the academic world without academic training.
On the bright side, you don't need to be too worried about your grades in undergrad. Admission to a PhD program is not as strictly based on scores as admission to college. I myself don't care that much about the scores of applicants to our program; what I want to see is a good writing sample and a statement of purpose that evinces preparedness and awareness of what graduate school is. If you have strong documents, a relatively low GPA will not prevent you from getting into programs.
You are allowed to publish philosophy books outside of academia. They just might not get the recognition that you may want. Also, if your into it just for the learning experience, you could try auditing some college courses where you don't pay, don't have to do assignments, etc, you can just sit it on class. Of course, there's always clubs as well.
@@rogermaioli Completely agree.
@@joshuaim3263 I agree. The only thing I'll add is that there are many philosophy resources on the internet for free. If you're dedicated enough, you can learn a lot through your own initiative.
I think students should know that it is becoming more common that community colleges require PhDs for their professors. Also there are some really great funded MA programs out there!!!
Very well done. Thank you for this interesting conversation.
Would you consider it be possible to do philosophy in an academic setting with a graduate degree in something more adjacent to philosophy, say social anthropology or economics?
You could always incorporate philosophy into your other work, but I don't know if you'll be able to get hired by a philosophy dept with that background. I know there are philosophers who also have a PhD in economics, so I suspect they'd have more options (e.g. Erik Angner).
If someone who had a bachelors degree in philosophy were independently wealthy and had an excellent worth ethic, would they be better off spending the next 5-8 years independently studying philosophy from academic journals or texts (or whatever happens to align with their field of interest) or going to grad school? Grad school gives guidance but it also gives a lot of extra coursework and teaching duties.
Our take would be to go to grad school, given that learning in community with peers and from experts is important. Of course, it depends on the particular graduate program!
As someone from a country in Southeast Asia, can I also take that same route in Emory? I mean I have no means to fund my studies but I want to pursue a PhD in Philosophy.
That was clear and helpful. Thank you!
@38:27 Thank you for your honesty, Dr. Peña-Guzmán! It’s shameful to see these privileged professors so full of themselves! Thank you for telling it like it is!
Humanities in general is probably the most difficult road in all of academia.
In a way it keeps those fields purer where only the passionate can reach the end.
You have to really be obsessively in love with your target PHD field.
I wonder if any studies have compared the failure rate in academia to professional sports.
Great point. I completely agree. It'd be very hard to finish if you're not passionate about what you're doing.
"Humanities in general is probably the most difficult road in all of academia. " Except the modern subjects. Then it's all BS and ideology, talked about in a fashionable way
Dr. Ellie Anderson and Dr. David Peña-Guzmán, thank you for sharing your wisdom. I have been binging on the content of your TH-cam channel. I offer a constructive criticism if I may. for your vlog sessions you need multiple camera setup. Especially, for two talking heads, you need at least three cameras. Two closeup angles and one wide shot. You could of course add more camera angles for creative visuals and adding immersive story telling.
Loved you nail paint 💅 david!
Learn plumbing, welding or electrical work and study philosophy on your “off hours.” Just one man’s opinion…
How likely is it for someone who did not get their bachelors in philosophy to get accepted into a philosophy masters program? I completed a political science major and a philosophy minor but the latter has become my absolute focus.
If you did well in your philosophy coursework, it's not unlikely. Many M.A. programs exist to generate revenue for philosophy departments, so they're willing to accept more applicants. If you have strong letters of recommendation, a good writing sample, and a clear statement of purpose, you're very likely to be accepted. I would highly encourage looking up M.A. programs that provide funding, because it's not a good financial decision to go into debt for an M.A. that offers little return for the investment.
I majored in politics for undergrad and got my MA in political philosophy, so I think it's very possible.
I finished my Masters in Philsophy in 9 months and was on track to ginish my PhD within 2.5 years at a good U.S. university. I dont agree it takes 5 years min.
what graduate school did yall go to?
Is it worth going to grad school even at 40? I had to drop from university because of family, and now that I have more time, I went back to finish my undergrad, I am in my last year of receiving my degree, but I am wondering now if it is worth going to grad school even after 40 years of age? If anyone has gone to do a master's or a PhD, how was it?
It's hard to give advice on such a personal level because I don't know all the details of your life, but I don't see why you couldn't. I did a MA first and then a PhD. MA was one full year, and the PhD took 6 years. One thing that might be different is the age gap. You probably won't want to hang out with all these 20-something-year-olds, so you may feel a little isolated from the rest of the group.
What does "worth it" encompass for you?
If you don't mind being dirt poor for 5 years and having no job at the end, then go for it. I just finished my PhD at 36 years of age, and found it quite daunting being in the job market competing with people who had a traditional work history. There's a lot of misconceptions from employers about postgrad, ranging from the impression that you just stayed back in school a few years, to the idea you're a intimidating genius. If you have wealth from another source - savings, investments, a rich spouse - then a masters or a phd could be a fun and rewarding hobby, but in my opinion I think it can't offer you anything particularly practical in terms of a life path.
@@theentirepopulationofaustr6046 Thank you so much for your honest and thorough message. I truly appreciate it! The market is indeed bad at the moment, which is one of the reasons I am still thinking about it. I have heard a similar story to yours, which makes it daunting to even think of pursuing a further degree. If it was maybe in a different field like computer science or engineering, I wouldn't give it any thought, but for the humanities, you have to consider the difficulty of finding a job. The costs are too high to just do it as a hobby. Anyhow, thank you again for your honest comment! I wish you all the best! There is something out there for everyone so don't give up! :)
lots of PHDs because you can just make things up and receive the adulation and confirmation from your peers that do the same
I love you two ❤
А синий цвет ногтей у профессора из-за изучения философии вообще, или из-за изучения её именно в аспирантуре?
For someone who asks ‘should I go to graduate school ?’, the answer is ´no’.
Once upon a time in a small town nestled near the coast, there lived a young girl named Lily. Lily was a curious and compassionate child with an immense love for all creatures, big and small. She had a special bond with nature and spent most of her days exploring the nearby forests and meadows.
One sunny afternoon, as Lily wandered near a muddy ditch on the outskirts of town, she heard a faint squawk. Curiosity piqued, she followed the sound until she stumbled upon a nearly lifeless cockatoo, its vibrant white feathers caked with mud. The poor bird seemed exhausted and on the brink of giving up.
Without hesitation, Lily rushed to the bird's side. Gently cradling the cockatoo in her hands, she whispered comforting words, reassuring it that help had arrived. Lily carefully carried the fragile creature back to her home, a cozy cottage surrounded by blooming flowers and chirping birds.
Lily's parents, seeing the sorry state of the cockatoo, worried that it might not survive. However, Lily refused to give up on the feathery stranger. She cleaned the bird's delicate feathers, bathed it with warm water, and fed it nourishing fruits. Day by day, the cockatoo regained its strength and began to trust Lily, forming a deep bond between them.
As the cockatoo grew healthier, it surprised Lily with its intelligence. It mimicked Lily's words and sounds, quickly learning new melodies and amusing her with its playful antics. One day, while Lily was reading a book on philosophy, the cockatoo began to mimic her, repeating profound phrases about the nature of reality, beauty, and love.
Lily was astonished. She realized that her feathered friend had become an unexpected teacher of wisdom. Excited by this revelation, Lily decided to capture these moments and share them with the world. She started filming the cockatoo and created a TH-cam channel dedicated to its teachings on platonic philosophy.
The videos became an instant sensation, captivating viewers worldwide. People were mesmerized by the cockatoo's profound thoughts, conveyed through its charming mimicking and Lily's explanations. The bird, now known as Plato, had inadvertently become an ambassador for intellectual discourse and deep contemplation.
Plato's TH-cam channel attracted a diverse audience, ranging from philosophy enthusiasts to those seeking solace and inspiration. Plato's teachings resonated with people, reminding them of the power of knowledge and the beauty of introspection. Gradually, Plato's popularity grew, and he became an online sensation, surpassing millions of subscribers.
Lily and Plato embarked on a journey of enlightenment, sharing profound discussions, exploring classical works, and encouraging viewers to ponder life's greatest mysteries. They organized virtual seminars, engaging in dialogues about morality, ethics, and the nature of the human soul.
However, amidst the fame and admiration, Lily and Plato never forgot their humble beginnings. They continued to live a simple life in their cottage, surrounded by the tranquility of nature. Lily, now older, pursued her studies in philosophy, inspired by her extraordinary companion. She dedicated herself to nurturing the minds of future generations, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking and contemplation.
Plato's teachings extended far beyond TH-cam, inspiring people to seek knowledge and embrace the pursuit of truth. The cockatoo, once near death in a muddy ditch, had become a symbol of resilience, intellectual curiosity, and the power of compassion.
And so, Lily and Plato continued to spread their message of enlightenment, reminding the world that wisdom could emerge from the most unexpected places, even from a nearly dead cockatoo rescued by a young girl with an unwavering love for all creatures.
Is this real? Like what is the TH-cam channel?
with no motivation to work in an economy with the sole purpose of profit i dont even have a choice
They could have saved a lot of time by simply saying, “ Sorry… there were only two jobs left for philosophy PhD s… and we took them. Go home.”
To what graduate school did you both go?
They went to Emory. (Atlanta).
@@thegrimmreader3649i need some advice.
The disappearance of comps in philosophy PhD programs has really weakened the discipline and cheapened the degree. I imagine that you are both better off for having gone through them.
Today. Absolutely not. Find a trade to make enough money that AI is not going to end. Since you are a Philosopher, by reading this, you always will be one. I am 60 and was a B.A. in Philosophy. Survived through restaurants. Always read and changed. Have always followed what philosophy professors are writing about in the 10 elite universities. A nice job, if you are guaranteed it, but you are not. My study of Philosophy has led me to conclude that there are only 2 Essential Questions a philosopher should study with their passion. 1. Does a "God" exist? Yes or No? Act out your responsible actions, realizing our primate nature often gets us in trouble with co-workers. 2. If a Creator exists, is it 1 life with a judgement as the Monotheistic Religions proclaim, or, is it many lifetimes of Karma working its way out to a final Enlightenment? P.S. I will give you a true tip. If I met a Philosopher of Language who spoke about the "Truth Claims of the Causal Logic", on a Cruise Ship, I would go out of my way to seduce his wife, out of principle. 😊
Well MINE was 320 pages long
So, I'm better 😌
17,00 isn’t poverty ? Hmm
Every body has a little philosophy in them.
Agreed. I'd say people are born philosophers.
Should I go to grad school in philosophy? The short answer is no. The long answer is no.
Me watching the whole thing knowing I have no interest in philosophy grad school 😮
Heidegger working in a hardware store: “You are a tool”.
I don’t see graduate school as particularly useful because of the rapid spread of mobile devices outfitted with connectionist hardware architecture. Anglo-American philosophy is focused on language issues affected by logical explorations. That work seems unusable in using new communications tools. This takes out a lot of U.S. schools. Continental thinking lifts off of the writing practice that holds back Anglo-American philosophical work. And by doing that can’t address how the tools expression develop. Instead focusing in upon inner consciousness as if speculation is enough. The question of realism versus anti-realism a very Marxist concept eludes Continental philosophy. Tools of expression imply a common ground with writing, but also with carrying about to know the whole of saying reality. Hence wholeness ought to capture philosophical attention but seems left to religiosity as if walls of thinking were there in philosophy.
Go, but don't enrol.
why the blue nail varnish
Um no.
😮tg
As undergraduate, I advice: do not do this to yourself. Keep studying philosophy if you are interested, but it doesn't fit modern academical formula - and the efforts it does to conform this publication-driven world can make you feel - if you respect yourself - the lowest trickster.
The pressure to publish is real and is terrible.