Who Is Controlling Mormont's Raven?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 เม.ย. 2024
- Many people subscribe to the idea that Lord Commander Mormont's Raven is being warged into by someone. Is it Bloodraven, time travelling Bran or someone else? If it is bloodraven how does he get into the bird from the opposite side of the wall when we see the wall has the ability to cut off warging? Today we try look at the evidence and get to the bottom of this.
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The Raven is a bird, a bird that mocks people, a mocking bird. He also likes to cause confusion and chaos. Mormont's Bird is Little Finger confirmed.
A pig is an animal with dirt on his face,
His shoes are a terrible disgrace.
And corn IS an old Word for grain and grains where used instead or coins before Money was a thing, and also taxes and littlefinger IS master of coins!
But Sansa is a little bird and she will take down LF so she's the raven!
Ser Pounce has been really quiet since this dropped
Someone who REALLY likes corn.
hello how are u sam Brickwell
The whole time the Raven was saying "KoRn"
For some reason, this video only bolsters my suspicion that Varys' monologue in the ADWD prologue was directed at the raven which was in Pycelle's office rather than Ser Kevan. I've always thought Bloodraven was in there, and Varys was taunting him about his inability to stop this Blackfyre Rebellion because of his predicament. Wow. Great video man!!
THIS, Varys monologuing never sat right with me in regards to the FAegon plot, because I was like "Kevin is dying, why would he lie about his identity? Maybe he really is Aegon VI." but ALL the evidence seems to indicate otherwise. But if Varys was performing for the RAVENS that makes it WAY more compelling. Love love love it.
This is a wild theory and I love it, are there any videos of people talking about this idea that you could link me?
"Corn" sounds like "Qhorin", doesn't it?
Been my thought for years
That is interesting
I think ravens in ASOIAF are really cool and this bird, while very ominous, and easily a vessel for magical shenanigans, I also enjoy the idea that all of its ominous stuff is largely just the bird being silly.
Not that I'm opposed to conspiracies using that raven for conspiracies, of course of course.
What if BR's warging isnt blocked by the wall and other wargs are because he's physically plugged into the weirwood network and....... Yeah you said this now. I like the weirwood antennae idea
You might be my favorite ASOIAF channel
ok i see. who is u Least favorite ASOIAF
channel then?
@@pIayingwithmahwii idk, if I don’t like a channel I block the recommendations and move on.
Edited out the rest because this is meant as a praise toward this channel and I don’t want him to be in the awkward position of hosting negativity
@@alcyonae ok i see. well i also like this chanel
I second that!
I assume BR has been in raven form and hanging out at the Nitghtfort for years. The ravens are just one example of his "(thousand) eyes and one." They're literally used as "messengers" throughout the rest of Westeros, as well, so it makes sense they could'/would do the same for BR. They can simply transmit their info "magically", rather than by carrying physical notes, but the concept is the same; Ravens = Information. Perhaps, "regular" critters can pass under the Wall, like Direwolves, or because they are born/raised in/of the North, they're willing and able to cross the Wall more easily than a "foreign, magical, fire being", like a Dragon or a "Colhands" type of "un-natural" being. Ravens can "speak" naturally IRL, so they wouldn't need to be "magical", per se.
Etymologically, "cornus", is from the Latin word cornu, which means "horn." Every time the raven says "corn", substitute "Horn" and they work just as well ("Snow!, King!, Horn!" : Corn King = Horn King = Fisher King, etc...The King is the Land motif). We still use "corn" as "horn" in words like "unicorn"(one-horned), or "Cornucopia" ("Horn-o-Plenty"), etc......In English, "Corn" historically meant any sort of cereal grain, like wheat, not North American maize, like we think of it today, but GRRM may be allowing for "con on the cob" in "Westeros"/New World they same way Tolkien allowed for potatoes and tobacco in LotR, despite them not being native to Europe either. GRRM never limits himself when it comes to food, but I don't think the point of the ravens cawing the word "Corn" so much is because they're literally hungry all the time. Never mind the fact that ravens are carnivores/scavengers/carrion eaters and not a herbivorous species that prefer nuts, seeds, etc....Ravens want blood and Bloodraven wants ravens.
There's no doubt that horns and the Wall are intimately related. Not only are they used to announce arrivals at the Wall itself, but they are also used in binding dragons and likely bringing down the Wall in some way. Having the ravens say "Corn-Horn" most often is also a big clue that they will be vital to the end game.
Cheers & Tschuss!
The raven often says corn three times, and what does three blasts of a horn mean...?
I think because Mormont's Raven is so cognizant that it's likely to be someone who died recently living inside it, they haven't been dead long enough to forget all their human speech. They would also be someone familiar with Bloodraven for obvious reasons. As to who it may be, I honestly don't know, but I do think there's a good chance it's a Blackwood from Raventree Hall.
I distinguish the Three-Eyed Crow as Bran, and Mormont's raven as Bloodraven warging. The problem of the Wall being a barrier to magical beings is removed when you remember they can cross with the permission of a member of the NW. LC Mormont gives his raven permission to cross the Wall when he ranges. If it has permission to cross the Wall physically, the permission extends to crossing the Wall mentally/psychically.
also with bloodraven being a member of the watch he could have permision to cross the wall with warging
@@quimykaifyespecially since he was lord commander, who better than to give permission.
I usually think the list of things that 'time travelling bran' could do is vastly overestimated. Like, explaining complex architecture is a far cry from one
or two words squawked by a bird. You'd need someone to be able to listen and understand weirdwood or greenseer voices, and have enough sway to be listened to by those around them. But that got me thinking about the Tower of Joy and Howland Reed. Reed visited the Isle of faces, so could potentially be able to hear Bran. It could be that the 'I would have died but for Howland Reed' thing has something to do with Bran talking to Reed there, passing on some information that would change the fight. My personal TOJ headcannon is that Arthur Dayne switched sides (for unknown reasons) and was fatally injured due to that, hence the extreme action of taking the sword home with a newborn in tow. This seems a far more likely place Bran to be injected into the story than him being every person named bran who ever existed.
I think the weirwoods (deep roots, caves into winterfell, rivers) are the reason bloodraven can communicate across the wall. It would make sense if that's cotf magic that they have a workaround only they know how to use, and this might be their magic that helped the last hero originally to end the first long night. If there are weirwoods in the castles on the wall, and I'm all in on the castle black theory, then that might be how the nights watch could be communicated with, the current vessel being Mormont's raven. The weirwoods are the secret back door in other words. And I could totally see it being whatever is on the Isle of faces that is pulling the strings, some original greenseer that we've only heard about as legend from the age of heroes!
IRL, these birds repeat the words that are most frequently used around them. And this was Mormont's Raven.
Sam theorized that Jon was being groomed for command. What if command wasn't the thing he was being groomed for?
Another lovely Saturday started with a great lore video
it's kinda weird to me.
On one hand it's much cooler if the raven is warged by bloodraven or bran than just some random child of the forest
On the other hand it makes much more sense if it is indeed an example of a second life. Because when a skinchanger dies the two personalities kinda merge together. It's not a beast anymore but not a human in a beast body either. And the bird does always scream about corn which is kinda silly if it's bloodraven in there demanding corn all the time but makes sense if it is actually part bird and part warg
And also it's kinda weird that with the threat of the Others bloodraven or Bran would waste time on that. Again makes more sense if the bird was sent there with a dead singer inside
The children's voices sound like they are singing
Could it be that it is a child of the forest in the Raven and then Bloodraven comes and goes when he feels like it? I think Bloodraven has more important things to be doing than constantly hanging it in a bird at the wall, but he would want to influence events and also have someone who can fill him in on anything he missed.
Alternatively, the wall was built to stop the others, which were made with the magic of the children of the forest. In the case it would make sense that the wall is a barrier to that magic. In that case it could be a long dead Child of the forest in the raven. Being a bird, the raven could regularly fly over the wall and provide reports and get instructions from Bloodraven. We are told that humans lose themselves the longer they are in an animal, but it seems possible to me that children of the forest would hold on to their identity much better since this is a natural part of their life cycle.
Don't forget that we know that Greenseer/Weirwood magic can observe things on the other side of the wall with no problem. It's only the warging connection that is blocked. Even if he's unable to control the raven, BR would still be able to spy thru it w/o any problems
cool video Michael, and I agree that the other big possibility is that there could be a child of the forest spirit in the Raven doing some of this stuff. That's a really interesting idea. I'm also glad you touched on the very curious notion that all of the Ravens have dead children of the forest spirits in them, which has always seemed weird to me since children of the Forest live much longer than Ravens! It really makes no sense to be honest, and I've wondered if maybe it was something Martin wrote without thinking about it deep enough. your proposing that all of the birds form a sort of soul network that the children of the forest spirits can inhabit in a collective way, and I think you could be onto something here. people have proposed that the wolves have something like that going on as well that might be separate from the weirwood network. I suspect this is the case, because I think humans had access to skin changing magic long before they started becoming greenseers.
kinda off topic but is it just me or every raven having a child of the forest inside sounds impossible?
Leaf says the children of the forest never had a big population even in the beginning . But crows are fkn everywhere.
You could say that when a crow dies the singer inside goes into another bird so with them never completely dying just changing bodies it's kinda possible but it's also stated that the second life of a warg will be his last. You stay in your beast until you both die for the last time so what's up with that?
btw both these things about small population and the second life are said in the same chapter so it's not like George "kinda forgot"
Crows and ravens are different birds. Crows are common; ravens are not.
@@phnompenhandy I know.
@@TheHellyeahmen You must have meant crow instead of raven then
@@Jdb63 no
I used both on purpose because in the books it's not very clear which is which sometimes.
The three eyed crow for example is also called a three eyed raven by Bran
Grrm was once asked if there any other magical animals in westeros, he paused gave a chuckle and then said every animal in westeros is magical.
For the algo, you deserve more coverage, your channel is amazing.
THANK YOU for making mention of time traveling Bran. IDK why, if it's just the limited spaces I occupy in this fandom, but with all the popular theories floating around I never ever see anybody talk much about time traveling Bran. Jon's dream-warging in Clash where he both sees and speaks with Bran in the weirwood WELL before Bran even finds the cave absolutely blew my mind when I first read it, and yet I never see anybody mention it. I still think it's Bloodraven in there, but who knows? Time travel is wonky, it could be that BOTH of them have influenced Mormont's raven at various points.
Preston Jacobs has a video on it, but I haven’t seen it recently and don’t remember what he discusses in detail
THANKYOU! that's what ive been saying! Also thanks for the vid Michael!
If we consider the possibility (I think you've talked about this in another video) that the Lord Commander of the Wall can grant passage thru the wall, it's feasible that Bloodraven has some sort of emeritus privileges in addition to being hooked into the WW net. The issue of warg blocking seems much more surmountable than coming up with a better candidate who's controlling the raven. Only thing I can think of it could be is some CotF we don't know about south of the wall.
lol didn’t expect to see a deep dive on Mormont’s bird. Love it
We know that while skinchangers get a second life in their animals their consciousness does fade after sometime, but if that were the case then the ravens would not have held the consciousness of the previous skinchangers as those original ravens are long dead. IMO those inside the ravens are not just any skinchangers but past greenseers, like the ones whose bodies are half dead in the wierwood cave. Maybe greenseers who were hooked to the trees are still able to hop between animals out of habit even though they have lost most of their consciousness with time. BR calls them Singers, I don't remember that title being used for just normal wargs or skinchangers but rather for greenseers. One more point supporting this is that if your theory of Others being ice shadows of people bound to the wierwood is correct then it's being bound to those wierwood that makes the Others immortal (rather than just fading away like Stannis's fire shadow) and similarly, the greenseer "shadows" inside the ravens are immortal as long as their body is hooked to the wierwoods.
Thanks for answering my question.
Comments help the algorithm and MTAS helps the community with uploads.
Woah, what if the Ravens aren't saying Corn? What if they're saying "Khorne?"
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
Excellent video 👌
An interesting tidbit I learned about obsidian the other day: the Aztecs used to use obsidian daggers to cut out the hearts of their human sacrifices because they believed it caused the sun to continue to rise, which sounds an awful lot like they were trying to prevent the night from lasting forever, lest they fail to carry this out.
Two dark horse options that might run concurrent with the possibilities you've laid out.
1. It's Bloodraven, but he can get around the warging barrier at CB because it used to be his domain. Same as the wights coming in under LC Jeor's invitation, LC BR could just invite himself in. (This could easily be non-mutually exclusive with his connection to WWs in the Wall. They *are* his invitation. His backdoor.)
2. I used to really be into the crackpot notion that it was Lyanna. Basically jumping from "Lyanna was half a horse" to the conclusion that she was a skinchanger. She knows she needs to live a second life to guide Jon down the song of ice and fire, so she hops into a talking bird like the singers of old. Rhaegar's maiden fair links up with the old bear, and helps him rise to the rank of King Crow. Where she then puts her thumb on the scale in matters concerning her son, her brother's kids, and the battle for the dawn.
...Also there's a slight hiccup with it being Brynden Rivers. Mormont's Raven and the Three-Eyed Corvid are both in AGOT, but George didn't add the Great Bastards until after ACOK. But we *did* already have a crow leader with magic old ways blood, and a strong connection to Bran, who disappeared leading a great ranging. Also a pale bird-themed, eye-themed, web-themed spymaster pulling the strings from the shadows. Bloodraven is like putting Benjen and Varys in a blender.
I think it's time traveling bran, but the idea that it could be the equivalent of Blood Ravens own version of Todd Packard makes me smile..
Bloodraven is tied to the Weirwood network and the Weirwood network stretches south of the wall (maybe is the wall). So I think you are correct, that Bloodraven can get his warging beyond the wall as he is connected to a wired network through it, but Jon Snow is using Wi-Fi, which the wall blocks.
Jacking into the weirwood network has to be how Bloodraven can warg through the wall, that said I don’t believe Bloodraven is the Three Eyed Crow
Great theory👍
I always believed that numerous individuals were warging into the crow at different times. I think it was Jojen who told Bran that it was not a good idea to stay too long in an animal because you run the risk of losing yourself and become that animal. That is why I do not think anyone has constant control but it theoretically would be possible for numerous individuals to monitor something without actually warging into it and taking control which blocks others from entering that animal.
Its probably Bloodraven (or at least someone send by him), he was Lord Commander of the NW and magical creatures can cross and probably warg across the wall by invitation of the Lord Commander. He never abdicated or was depoused, so the effect of the spell can work as long as he's still alive wich can also explain his tready with the CotF as the would need him to accept or deny passage (wargin or phisical) to the south.
Do we get any background on Mormont's Raven in the books? Are we sure it's Mormont's raven?
Because we see its loyalty switch from one Lord Commander to the next, and Ravens are both in Bloodravens name and his maternal house sigil. Givimg hom the name Bloodraven would make sense if his warg ability had an affinity to Ravens. So, could it be Bloodraven's Raven? Left behind at the Wall to be his eyes and ears to help him meddle in Night's Watch politics/succession.
Might require the Raven to be extremely old, but in a world of astal protjection, shape changing, dragons, blood magic, talking flames, etc a magically long lived raven doesn't sound implausible.
Bloodraven is a Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. That might be why he can warg through the wall.
I was thinking about what you said earlier about the powers of the Lord Commander allowing the wights across, having the power to let things pass the wall, could be the same with the Jeor's bird becaus it was his and all
raven just wants some corn and no one is feeding him
Good stuff. This rhymes with the theory that the three heads of the dragon are the dragon, its rider, and some ghost or something
Like the idea that Dany put the consciousness of her brother and her husband in her dragons when she did her pyre thing?
Presumably Miri Maz Dur is in one as well, which seems less than optimal. Or her monster child.
If the wall blocks messages because of the weirwood wards, bloodraven shouldn’t be able to send anything at all because he has it around his cave. My guess is that he can either send it from any weirwood since they’re all connected
Eddard was attuned to listening for the gods. Of course he would have heard a whisper of Bran calling out. But bran doesn’t know he’s speaking tree.
If it is always being warged, I wonder why the raven can cross the wall, but Varamyr and his bird burst into flames. Because the raven went under instead of over? Or was is really Melisandre burning Varamyr and there is no warg barrier?
The raven gets told hes allowed in. The wall is based on guest rights ^-^ u must be new ti the channel.
@@forgotten1s aw, now I feel bad for Cold Hands. No invitation to the party. Though he doesn't eat, so maybe he can't partake in Guest Right anyway.
@@forgotten1sit has nothing to do with guest rights
If the weirwood roots go under the wall and form a mycelium network connecting all weirwood trees, I see no issue with Bloodraven warging via projecting from a southern tree, as you say
6:00 i also wonder if you can use tree warging to move into a convenient tree first, then use it as a node
Well, then he went and said the exact same thing
Couldn't Bloodraven as a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch give himself the right to pass the wall with magic like you implied the Lord Commander could in your last video?
Crows recognize faces in real life
Uncle Benjen is warged into Mormonts raven. The reason why he went to the nights watch is to keep an eye on things. Maybe he also got a dream in which he could fly? (Also, no proof or anything, just ramblings)
Mormont’s raven eats corn and knows things.
I think there are two people time travelling.... There is Bloodraven, in the Body of Bran who took him over when he was in Hodor and made that happen.... Then there is "The Lord of Light" and and potentially other voices that do not always align with Bloodraven and the Children/birds... Obviously Bran's flying dream, the Three Eyed Crow is not Bloodraven....
But he was sending Bran dreams...
It seems that everything is prologue... The Game of Thrones may be over the Long Night and the war for the world only just began.
How can long dead singers and lords be in the Ravens when Ravens only live a few decades at most?
What if the fact that the lord commander is with the bird allows the magic to pass through the wall? Like how the weights are brought in on Mormont’s commands
I think that time traveling Bran makes the most sense here. However, I didn't think the raven is ever being warged into. I think what could have happened is maybe a 'reverse Hodor.' (making something smarter through time travel, as opposed to brain damage) Bran went back in time to bestow knowledge to either that raven and/or the soul that resides within it
Good vid. Get a better mic bro rooting 4 u
the bird is obviously Ser Pounce and the Shrouded Lord
Patchface had a brother who could fly.
This is connected to the Pink Letter's author, imo.
Maybe the Raven is one of a kind .. kinda like BloodRaven’s personal Raven ..
Maybe Benjin ended up in Mormonts raven or others and jumped around when possible maybe not as trained as Bran or Jon and or competing with another skin changer still in there😅
I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think Mormont's raven ever crosses the ice of the Wall. For example, when Jon crosses the wall as LC, what the crow does is fly over it and then join him again.
If so, it is a clue that someone controls the crow and does not want to lose the connection.
Dany didn’t do it herself, it’s something to do with the magic system of the world, probably. But yeah. Supposedly dragons are made by sacrificing a life so the three heads of the dragon are the sacrificial ghost, the dragon & its rider. That’s the theory anyway
Sansa is a little bird who is asked to sing by Sandor Clegane.... Hope she can warg birds in the future
So, if the question is, is there a COTF living in the bird or is it a normal bird, and all birds have COTFs living in them, then the answer is yes to both. It is normal for birds to have a COTF living in them so the birst is a normal bird.
Corn corn corn!
Glad you have finally abandoned the whole everyone in Westeros is a Warg plot, and are back to quality theories👍👍
He's just a good boy!
I just had a thought... Ill explain further if necessary but a light bulb just went off.
Bloodraven is trying to warg Jon Snow and others. He is a body snatcher.
The CotF do be body snatching
@@pyramidion5911 I'm thinking he is older than the forest. Like Bloodraven has been dead a long time. The thing under the trees is an empty husk that it needed to communicate with Bran and now that Bran is there it will occupy him.
It would like to spread it's influence further and to do that it needs an Avatar like Jon Snow.
is jon really a targeryan tho?
Jon Stark Sword of the Morning
I'm commenting before I watch..it's Old Nan isn't it? 😉😂