Gabriel was given multiple chances to redeem himself, especially when he kept putting his son in danger, but continued to commit several crimes including mass destruction, brainwashing, attempted genocide in New York and Shanghai, terrorism, slavery and technically animal abuse (with the kwamis), etc. The only truly good things he did were allowing Adrien to go to school and giving him a present during the first Christmas without his mother, but that doesn't excuse his previous actions because he's still one of the worst parents on Miraculous.
I still think that Marinette never fed the Kwamis the entire time she had them and the one time she was going to Tikki pigged all the treats herself. You know the same Tikki who called Plagg Selfish for eating the cheese in Sandboy and for running away in Oblivio Who then has recently been seen stealing food 3 or more times now. (Didn't she even eat out of dustbin once too)
@@hazeclarkeThe only silver lining that I can see is that Gabriel's ending isn't going to stick, and Chloe's story isn't over and is most likely returning in season 6.
As a victim of emotional abuse, what they did with Gabriel was terrible!!!! Adrien definitely deserves closure after being abused for such a long time, but instead he was like "I'll never be as good as him" like what!? I'll always be upset about what happened to me, but at the same time it allowed me to grow from that experience and become stronger. Adrien won't be able to do that and it's also teaching a lesson that you should always forgive your abusers even if they don't deserve it. It's such a terrible lesson to teach to kids.
100% agreed. Gabe’s redemption wasn’t earned in the slightest. Whether as Gabriel or HawkMoth, he was horrible to everyone around him. And spot on about the message that it sends to its young audience. I can’t even fathom what they were thinking by going with this ending.
Gabriel did a lot of bad things like Akumatized a lot of people, he abused his son, ruins Adrien's relationship with Marinette, He thought of being Emily back a lot. But he had a chance to do it in the first episode of season 5 but he didn't do that. He decided he was going to stop Ladybug and Cat noir instead. He also didn't think of saving Natalie from closely dying either. And when Gabriel changed suddenly some people in the show think that he's a hero even though he was a supervillain. I still think he's a villain and a bad father. He doesn't deserve to be redeemed.
They say they couldn't make Gabriel be punished so it wouldn't affect the children, but if that was the case they should have made him have something to justify it
That’s a ridiculous reason 😭. By making him have no consequence to his actions, isn’t it just going to teach children that you can get away with doing bad things? In addition, what is the point of making such an evil character and not giving him a satisfying downfall? I’m sure we’ve all been waiting for that and for what? Kinda makes me feel like I wasted my time.
@@90lancaster yea thats true. i dont hate her but i rly wish she was written better. i kind of want her to get the consequences of hiding everything from adrien so she knows she cant just keep smth huge like that away from him. maybe a potential setback in the lovesquare off it would be interesting. ik i sound evil but i actually kind of want to see her pass the guardianship to someone else... just for drama
@@summerheart9834 Well there is the problem of the Love Square to deal with so I kinda expect Ladybug will tell Cat Noir in a way that makes Marinette look bad resulting in Adrinette ''Taking a break' & Ladynoir ramping back up again. we might even get some Ladrien out of it too. & Marichat would then be the toxic ship with Marinette being annoyed with Cat Noir as she will think he told Adrien about Gabriel babes being a baby akumatiser. I can't quite figure out how they can break them up and make it look like Adrien's fault but I think they will some how manage it.... as they do.
@@90lancaster i would rather they have a reveal before the truth gets out- i dont want adrien to still see ladybug/marinette because i think the truth should fully come out. plus there's extra drama that way. also ive never liked marichat so there's that lol-
I think they used the tired redemption equals death idea is an empty. where as Avatar the last Airbender’s Prince Zuko was the greatest redemption arc in television since it was gradual and became the blueprint of how to make a rewarding redemption arc.
Perhaps I'm forgetting the ending, but if they made Gabriel a hero, who did they say hawkmoth was? Like they just accepted that he was defeated, but just disappeared? Surely people would be wondering who was terrorising them for the past year?
If anything, we should blame ladybug for allowing him to get redemption. She could’ve chose to expose him but didn’t. Gabriel has no control, he’s dead 😢 anyway I don’t understand this show anymore. Thomas has ruined this show so much. He’s turned ladybug into a liar.
I read the 13 Reasons Why book before watching the TV show. The message in the book is portrayed differently than the TV show. The author write 13 Reasons while he was processing his niece's attempt. In the book the focus is very much on Clay hearing Hannah's tapes and processing the information. The book even leaves the reader with the sense Clay isn't quite sure what he does now, as he passes the tapes along to the next person on the list. The TV show doesn't leave any ambiguity Clay gathers friends around himself as he faces his own depression. The show is also about how everyone needs to take action to prevent suicide. I hate to admit I think Gabriel only got a "redemption" for the drama it will create next season without regard to what other implications it has. I think we've already seen how Adrien is conflicted because when Marinette offers him the rings and says his father wants him to wear them, Adrien looks like he doesn't want to wear them.
i agree. i think it's all heading for a big dramatic plot that will see ladybug and cat noir fall out or mari and adrien or whatever combination, but i'm not sure it's worth it
@@hazeclarkeI hope next season, that Marinette keeping this secret is eating her alive inside. I wouldn't be able to live with myself, keeping that kind of secret Hopefully they display that keeping these kinds of secrets is bad, emotionally and mentally. Just because an adult asks you to keep a secret, doesn't mean you always should
Face it: Gabriel got away with it. And it isn't over yet. Marinette's going out with a boy who doesn't know that his daddy was THE villain of the show. Several weeks ago, I speculated that a guilt-ridden Marinette as Ladybug would tell Cat Noir what really happened. I was serious. Imagine the fallout... 😈
I agree with you. I was so frustrated when Gabriel gets redemption while Chloe didn’t get one. Maybe that the last 6 episodes in season five could have been more or less controversial because of reasons. I feel like when writers wrote the redemption arcs and they redeem the wrong person. No wonder the fans (mainly Chloe fans) are still upset about this while Chloe haters are still celebrating in Revolution. Unfortunately, her redemption hasn’t started yet. Why are Chloe haters are celebrating, just like they did in both Revolution and Representation, while Chloe fans are upset about it? It’s like Super Bowl 51 all over again.
Once again. Thomas think and abusive father who's also a villain and a terrorist is redeemable when he only showed redeeming traits in few instantces. While a teenage girl who's parent's parenting lead her to act the way she does and actually showed more redeeming traits. And can still change. Is not redeemable. This is not how to write redeemable characters.
This decision was absolutely disgusting- but not as disgusting as Gabriel babe's disgusting banana pancakes that he forced Adrien to eat. Ugh! They didn't look good either. Marinette for once was in the right when she roasted him.
Adrien now likes bland pancakes as he's a bland person who is unable to make any of his own choices. Where as before he used to like Passionfruit as he was passionate. Kagami was right about him though all along every bad thing she ever said about him was more than true.
@@elizabethslama3326remember he's a sentimonster so he can't challenge his father and he probably felt good about the nice gesture, it was more of a joke
Wouldn't it be hilarious if the writers never tackle the Agreste arc's big lie in the upcoming seasons, and Cat Noir never finds out the truth like we expect him to? I'll be honest, this feels within the realm of possiblities for our favourite writing team to do.
I think the reason gabriel went insane is because of him using all the miraculous hell master fu even said in kwamibuster that you should not use all the miraculous or else youll lose your mind
If Marinette is engineering a situation where she becomes creative director of Gabriel's brand then she would have a reason STOP Adrien or Cat Noir from sabotaging the brand and legacy of Gabriel in her own selfish interest.
@@hazeclarke The problem with Marinette is that her imagined actions can often be scarily similar to the imagined actions of Lila or even Chloe, as at one point each of the girls have competed to effectively "own" Adrien's soul. That is why I respect Kagami (awkward nerd that she is) as at least she asked some of the difficult questions about her and Adrien's relationship rather than automatically go "This is fine, its all fine". The problem is that Marinette did not understand Adrien at all so she'd been in love with a false image the only way they undid that is very poorly after risk with things like video calls.making at best their relationship more like one where two people have just met. I didn't see Marinette making any "Cute video calls to Luka" though or Adrien with Kagami. Rather than make Adrinette look genuine to me it makes it look really forced. That is why I think if the poke at their relationship it will crumbed as they still don;'t know each other well at all. They give the impression that Ladybug just uses Cat Noir for personal validation and isn't even his friend, she at times in the shows run seems to forget he exists at all when he's not standing in front of her. I think it is no coincidence that the episodes we did get where their relationship at least hinted at being more healthy were the ones that had less involvement by Thomas. What is the point of a love square if they ignore half of it entirely and made 1/4 of it entirely platonic. some of the time and then the other rest of the time have Ladybug acting all "The grass is greener" and pinning over Cat Noir (while she has a boyfriend) that being on top of the other many times she's made to look flighty and disloyal to her feeling towards Adrien. If it was some random soap opera then I'd just say fine they are just being teenagers.. but this is a show that speaks about love in the titles and implies that LB&CN are "supposed" to be some epic love story.. By going all second act love interest in a romcom with the show it breaks the show it make Marinette look terrible in a way the show just doesn't with Adrien as he has a decent reason to look else where as CN was constantly rejected. The real joke is that Marinette still has not been rejected and so Adrien has never really had to make a choice he's just consumed what was put in front of him be that Kagami or Marinette or failed Ladybug. Maybe they should have done a love triangle with Cat Noir & Vesperiea and Marinette & Zoe instead ! At least you;'d have something different going on thant painfully awkward Adriinette.
After watching the video: If there's anything about this finale, it completely showed how wild and all over this season was. There was so many things, and particularly making him seem unredeemable, just to redeem him. I think this might be my least favorite season so far, feeling like a season 1, when it is labeled as a season 5...
I would say that I had some respect for Gabriel from Season 1 to some time in season 3 but after that I just hated the jerk. I do however have much respect for movie Gabriel and Re-verse Gabriel because they earned my respect. The biggest irony for me with Gabriel is that he said he TRIED to be a good dad but WHEN did he ever TRY because there wasn't really much of a difference between how he treated Adrien when he was a model and after Adrien quit being a model besides the fact that he put Adrien on a longer leash with more leeway than last time but still just as bad so no Dad of the year for Gabriel anytime soon unless it's for the category of world's worst dad. Also, Gabriel made lousy pancakes which it's a miracle didn't send Adrien to the ER for food poisoning. I've seen my share of villains being redeemed as heroes in their deaths but at least they earned their redemption. Gabriel being remembered as a "hero" is just an insult as he did nothing to earn it and it leaves a bad message that a bad guy who has done the worst things deserves to be remembered as a good person consequence free. The only reason I can think of for Gabriel getting this kind of ending is that his soul is probably about to put through his own personal of hell and torment and he's not really reunited in the afterlife with Emilie. Wouldn't it be a crazy kind of Karma if Gabriel's soul was cursed as punishment to NEVER be reunited with Emilie whether it's in the afterlife or even as a reincarnation and he can only watch as Emilie lives a happy life with someone who isn't him. This could be the universe's personal extra punishment for his actions against the Kwamis. At this point, one of my expectations with season 6 is that Gabriel's statue get mangled snd destroyed beyond repair that even the miracle cure doesn't want to fix it.
YEAHH thank you so much for speaking on this!!! Ive been thinking about this for so long and i hated how the fandoms been ignoring this shit as well As someone who legit was abused as a kid i find this choice to be absolutely disgusting and the fact people choose to ignore it (at least from what ive seen) is worrying af (imo at least) Anyhow worst choice the show ever made, speaking as a fan whos been following this since earky season 2
I mean I absolutely agree if they were going to redeem Gabriel they should’ve tried to do something at the end of season 4 or the beginning of season 5 I really don’t care they should’ve just make it make more sense cause right now this just came out of no where. Like you said haze Gabriel was a horrible person all season he completely lost it he practically left natile in her bed to pretty much die in conformation he hated marinette and her relationship with adrien which in my opinion I have no idea why though I mean what did marinette do to make you hate her so much Gabriel that just proves how insane he is he just doesn’t want his son with anyone else and only kagami for some reason which like I said before why do you even care about adrien being with kagami yeah like his redemption that just came out of no where I guess he doesn’t want his son to be happy. Lastly he forced his son to go to London just so he can keep adrien away from marinette for a year I mean how cruel can you be when you literally make your son scared of you right before you force him to get on a plane to London.seriously after everything that Gabriel did in season 5 you still have the audacity to redeem him I mean I’m sorry but we’re the writers asleep when they were writing the end of recreation look I don’t hate the season 5 finale but what I do hate about it is the fact that Gabriel got redeemed especially after everything he did in season 5 not counting seasons 1 through 4 cause he did terrible things but at least he was a decent father season 5 and a little of season 4 absolutely not anyways I swear if adrien doesn’t find out and cataclysm the statue I’m going to be mad cause that statue needs to go and adrien needs to know everything and I think the best way is if he finds out as cat noir cause ladybug will tell her partner I mean he other than Alya is the most trustworthy person. Anyways that’s my opinion sorry for it being this long I had a lot to say anyways have a great day❤.
There is a suggestion that the Alliance rings are imbued with some sort of magical aspect so that statue might be possessed or something ! Heck Maybe Tomoe will turn it into an android or something, or maybe like the LB & Cat Noir statue they totally forgot ever existed it will simply disappear and it isn't in the park in the footage Zag showed.
with every character the show redeems it just makes them not redeeming chole even worse in hindsight because they are all worse people than she ever was when they gave up on her redemption
To be honest in the episode Revolution is where we see Gabriel at his worst especially when he raised his voice at Adrien and forced him to get ready to get on the plane he even use the I am your father line like he said in episode 22 and to top it off in episode 1of season 5 evolution at the end Gabriel was given a chance to bring Emile back but was too focused on getting the miraculous. Oh I’ve made a new account too. Anyway just wanted to say how I felt about Gabriel agreste that’s all.
@@hazeclarke I had a really weird thought the other week what if the Supreme isn't human but is actually a robot (even evil Markov or Evil Uncanny Valley or some sort of AI gestalt like the one Markov Mentioned) This would explain why they'd hand out Miraculous to Humans if they can't use them, it could also be the Robots that Killed Mayura. They might therefore let Lila keep her miraculous after making a deal with her, the Butterfly Miraculous might be useful to them though as it would allow them to use Miraculous Power as Mayor Queen did with her robots. I also am very suspicious that Tomoe isn't human either. The real one being killed by using the damaged Peafowl Miraculous.
hey haze 😊, i need to Know if this is true, i've seen a supposed sinopsis for one night mission (LA special) on a spanish channel called nathaniel FD which reads as follows: [When the chaos caused by the Monarch's Final attack disrupts the elite ranks of United Heroez, Ladybug and Cat Noir must face known villains around the world. While Lady Dragon and Eagle come to the aid of the fight against the army of Techno-comrades, Marinette is looking for the Magicians' Metal to repair the recovered Miraculous. Will our heroes be able to bring order to disturped world and bring the new era?] it was supposedly released alongside the reverse sinopsis, but i haven't seen anybody on the english community cover this, the channel in question has always been factual, but i'm not sure
I would note that every special and quite possibly the Christmas one as well seem to take place out of order with the show in some sense or other. thought it is kinda impossible for the New York Special to even be in continuity anyway.
There is something fishy about that Amelie and Nathelie scene at the end of Season 5. In fact there is something fishy about everything at the end after the wish. I hope it isn't Adrien dreaming it all while still in his London prison cell. We have had so many fake outs on the show already why not another one !
@@hazeclarke They did say there is some twist or trick involved in the ending but didn't say what. I suppose it is to much to hope for that Caline Bustier is a robot. So I am not ruling out something weird like Nathalie being a hologram. Or Amelie pretending to be Emelie or Emelie pretending to be Amelie or something even more bizarre. But I mainly say that as I just don't trust Tomoe's motives an inch.
"I know it seems like I hate the show, but I don't. I am a writer, I have degrees in creative writing, it's how I'm wired, I see stories and think whether they were done as well as they could've been." There's nothing wrong with that, Besties! Here's this viewer's take on things: Gabie-baby had a false redemption, insofar as he knew to the last that he'd done wrong, by his own admission to Marinette - "don't let Adrien remember me as a bad guy (indeed, don't tell him that I was THE bad guy) but divert his attention to whatever crumbs of goodness I may have displayed towards him." There's one such in "Gorizilla," when Gabriel sits with Adrien and puts on the film starring Emilie, which Adrien had always wanted to see. At the end of the season, everyone in the cast apart from Marinette thinks of him as a good guy, but we watchers know otherwise. You cited a Mozart opera, Hazie! It's completely beside the point of this video, but if anyone were looking for a good route into opera, there cannot be many better examples than "The Magic Flute." Actually, it may be relevant to the show after all, insofar as at least one character (The Queen of the Night) is initially reported as being good but turns out to be evil, or at least untrustworthy. Almost like Gabriel and Lila combined, you could say!
So, first off. Critiquing something doesn't kean you don't love it. If a family member slid into bad habits, you wouldn't stay silent. Secondly I think something vital (and something that makes me not share your optimism about S6) The reason we know Gabriel was to be considered redeemed is: Marinette respected his wishes. She prioritized Gabriel's desires over Adrien's agency. BUT S6! I hear people say... And for most shows I would agree. However- Miraculous has a protagonist centered morality. That is, Marinette can be wrong during an episode but by the end she is always correct. It's not an uncommon writing style for a kids show, but it does come with some baggage. Hindsight is basically non-existent. Revisiting things doesn't work. We can see it in ML in several places. Marinette's jealousy costing Fu his memory is never addressed. Her going gangbusters on Lila and playing into her hands, nope that's Adrien apologizing next time Lila pops up for being naive. There are plenty of other examples. So Marinette carrying out Gabe's wishes by the end of the finalé means she and therefor the show, approves of them. It is *possible* S6 will have a paradigm shift from the previous 5 seasons and break this style ... but counting on it is betting against a pattern.
@@hazeclarke I should clarify. S6 may be good in other ways, I just meant in terms of providing a good msg abt Gabe/abuse. I expect they'll just try to bury it all and move on.
We have news that Cerise's last name is Bianca And the end of Ladybug is taking place after season 5 and the end of phase one It will be the last special to use the Maya engine before jumping to Unreal Engine 5
I think S1 and S2 had at least still had Gabriel at points he could still be redeemable. Since compared to later seasons, i don't Gabriel was as abusive(like manipulating Adrien) in the first two seasons he's only guilty of being an absent and cold/distant parent. Why i prefer Gabriel in the movie, since i feel the movie at least stays with the early seasons, so i feel the Redemption in the movie was at least earned compared to the show. Gabriel lost my sympathy after S3, that's seriously when the physical and mental abusive started I personally feel.
his death has got nothing to do with. you can redeem someone, dead or alive. what makes his redemption is having adrien believe he's a good dad and building a statue of him
Tbh I don’t think he was really redeemed. He just ended up “winning” at the end. And to be fair his bad acts didn’t go unpunished, he did die. But that’s my opinion anyways feel free to tell me otherwise
You can still be punished and be redeemed. He wasn’t redeemed because he won. Mari letting Adrien believe his dad was good and the statue are what make him redeemed
I felt some type of way at the finale like it just felt really gross. I was thinking "they cannot be serious" like theres no way they just threw everything Gabriel did away. And then celebrate him??? I just could not fathom they actually went that route.
I agree season 5 left a lot of holes and needs a lot of coverage I have so many questions and disappointed I never got certain moments that I hope season 6 can fix some for us like adrien finding out his dad is shadow daddy I’m still angry I never saw the ladrien moment especially him being over his ladybug crush or get to see how tender ladybug she would be trying to remember that at that moment he’s not her boyfriend mabe u could make a fan fiction haze help us out and the fact that Adriens reunion with plagg and possibly plagg and tikki having a brief moment to check on each other I’m interested to know if gabe was similar to gabe in shadybug claw noir before Emily’s death ☠️
Gabriel: Does Terrorism, abuses his son, puts paris (and the world) in danger everyday, akumatized people against their will, akumatized his son against his will, controls his son's love life, and restarting the world and told Marinette to tell his son he's a fantastic father. Gabriel: I DiD It BeCaUsE My WiFe Is DeAd! Rocket: ***Everybody's got dead people! It's no excuse to get everybody else dead along the way!***
Alrighty. Let me stop you right there. Gabriel wasn’t redeemed. Honestly, it genuinely confuses me how people can look at what happened in season five and the finale and seriously say he was redeemed. He never acknowledge what he did was wrong, and if anything, he doubled down in his belief that he was in the right. Marinette basically just gave him a single chance to finally do right by Adrien and give up on his quest, but he didn’t. He basically just committed suicide so he could avoid the responsibility of his own actions, and he attacked her, took the miraculi from her and made his wish. He then also proceeded to basically emotionally blackmail her to not tell anyone. Speaking of Marinette’s decision decision I also have some thoughts about that. I actually don’t think it’s as bad as people are making it out to be and I think there’s a few more mitigating factors that I think more people should be keeping in mind. 1. The butterfly miraculous is current status is incredibly precarious and at this point, they don’t know what happened to it, or if it’s potentially in the hands of someone worse. We the audience know that it’s the hands of everyone’s favorite spawn of Satan but they don’t. 2. Adrien being a senti Marinette now knows that Adrien is a sentimonster, and as a result, she now has to be extra mindful to make sure he cannot be akumatized. If the wrong item gets infected, it can very well result in him getting killed and she absolutely cannot risk that. 3. Adrien’s safety if people knew Gabriel was monarch. This point in particular boggles my mind that more people aren’t thinking more about. Guys, really think about this. How do you think the city would treat the child of the person who had terrorized the city for God knows how long? Best case scenario Adrian would be a social pariah , because of what his dad did, worst case scenario, he would actually have basically a huge target on his back. As for the subject of Chat Noir not being there, I think more people are forgetting that in previous episodes like Chat Blanc and Ephemeral made it pretty clear that Chat being there would have been a BAD idea. Every single time Gabriel found out about his son being Chat Noir he IMMEDIATELY took advantage of it. He instantly used that info to Akumatize him and won the fight with that knowledge.
while i can see where you’re coming from in that he didn’t acknowledge what he’s done, the show doesn’t handle redemptions normally. people often don’t apologise in this show and are redeemed (eg felix). and even if he wasn’t redeemed, i don’t think it’s crazy for people to interpret it that way when the man gets a statue in the park and is remembered as a martyr he can manipulate marinette and have everyone believe he was a hero. both can be true at the same time lol i’m not saying everyone should know Gabriel was monarch - but i do think his son should know and i think you are forgetting that adrien is not the same as in cat blanc or ephemeral. his relationship with his dad is colder and distant now. and thomas making that statement is just him confirming adrien hasn’t developed since season 3
Hey, Bestie! We need a fanfic crossover between Nightmare Scenerio and Miraculous! Would that be considered a fanfic, though? Or like a half fanfic? 😂😂😂😂😂 Still waiting for the next chapter of Nobody Else, though! Any idea when we can expect the next chapter? 😂😂😂😂😂
I feel you can write an abusive parent/character and give them reasonable motives for how they got that way, without redeeming or excusing what they did. If you want to redeem them, than have that character show regret and a need/want to make things up to the person they were abusing. Gabriel never remorse or regret in the recent seasons for manipulatinh Adrien or taking advantage of others. At least movie Gabriel shows that, which is why i liked movie Gabe's Redemption was actually good. There's still work to be done, but i feel it could be a focus in later installments especially with Adrien as a main focus, instead of Marinette.
I watched something where this plotline was similar but done far better Similar thing an abusive manipulative parent type character "sacrifices" themselves while the two main characters who were the main characters were abused. No this didn't mean this character wasn't redeemed in any way or looked at as a hero. Yes the two main characters cry of course they do they hate the abusive character but also mixed feelings. I would never cry in sadness for the abusive character but when I think about it I cry in anger towards this character because of the way they treat everyone particularly the two main characters but still a fantastic written character.
I'm not sure I want to even get into the ridiculous Pancake scene as if you take the scene in either meaning and context both of them look 50% right and 50% wrong that isn't likely what they intended at all regardless if you take it as a conversation about Fashion & Pancakes or about what method each one wants to use to Control Adrien's every action. This is especially bad on the back of Ladybug's behaviour towards Cat Noir in Season 4 where she is violent & domineering towards him. Gabriel is deadly to Cat Noir but Ladybug made Cat Noir Flinch away from her in anticipation of future violence she was seemingly going to enact upon him. Gabriel smashed Cat Noir into the sky after finding out who he was, and Ladybug attacked Cat Noir physically repeatedly too. So the show wants us to side with the physical abuser over the emotional abuser.
I’ve said this in another video here, but I’ll repeat myself: Gabriel’s Redemption in the Movie was better compared to the Show in my opinion cause there was a lot more emotions and it felt more personal.
Yes you right Gabriel is manipulative. But He’s didn’t force feed the son anything he could have like say I don’t like pancakes and i don’t wanna eat it.
Hi, may i ask for a video idea....what about finding all the plot holes in the show? Becs there are so many it's funny at this point......like i just found an interesting one recently....remember way back in season 1 with the egipt god episode.....yea well that dude supposedly had the power to bring his lover back to life(ofc that never happened) but isn't it a plot hole that Gabriel gaved someone the power to resurrect people....i mean his whole reason was to bring back his dead wife...soooo
In the finale, I didn't like the fact that he was considered a hero and was not responsible for the wrongs of other Parisians.After all, what does this series teach that you can be bad because they they build a monument anyway?
I think that Gabriel also wished that Marinette wouldn't tell Adrien the truth based on his last words. Which I think means that there a sacrifice that someone else SHOULD do. I would like to see Marinette's view as she tries multiply times telling her boyfriend what really happened (even as Ladybug), but can't and don't know why.
see...I'm torn about Gabe...the main issue is they just portraed him as bad...they were so worried that peope would symapthize with gabe at all that everysingle time gabe had nuance or real emotion they then made him act even more even to try to invalidate aspect...people tend to ignore it but honestly I feel like gabe was ALSO character assasinated pretty badly where they way they portayed it makes no freaking sense. That said I actually thing there is a easy fix that have in the showthat could make things at least better...just have the show point out that gabe LITERALLY turned insane? the point of the show is that when people feel hurt and wronged they can act out in ways to try to solve their problem themselves or get their hurt acknowledged...and that when your in the heat of negative emotions you can act out in ways that won't actually soleve your problem or are offputting....but that is someone acknowledged or finds the core of your issue you can get real help. so thematically a redeemable gabriel actually WORKS. as the person they thought was a simple evil person was in fact someone hurt and despertae trying to solve their problem by themselves through a wrong method where he needed someone from the outside to help him. like arguable his plan was to act like a villian and create a akuma victim to gain attention and force the ladybug and cat miraculous to be activated since he couldnt find it through other means despite how rich he was. he was inspired to do this due to history which showed ladybug and chat noir being activated to face problms through time. he gets the akuma victim's consent to give them powers. the won't remember the bad stuff they did which could minimize the trauma in theory and he made a point of showing there was a mastermind so people have less reason to blame his victim...his plan was to draw out the ring and earings to steal which then he could reverse all the damage with the ladybug power. and then combine it to make a wish...as it seemed the plan was for the mom to wake up since she was 'missing'. probably with the excuse she snuck away for a experimental treatment she didn't know would suceed...especially since they made a point of keeping her alive/she was in a coma due to the faulty peacock miraculous and they had no guardians anymore to turn to for help and a book they can't properly translate. what he was doing still isn't a okay thing to do...but honestly if its to save a loved one a plan to make a decoy villian to lure out something that has the power to reverse any of teh damage once its done and if you lose you know the damage will be reverse anyway as well doesn't take bending that many scrupals. We've seen mari make decions that seems sketch at first but work out in the end like taking down the eiffel tower ect ect because the plan would reverse damage. he's still not good but there is a big difference between choosing to do a crime that can't be reversed and doing one where you know the damage can be reversed for a fact. and since gabe can semi communicate with his akuma victims he has the illusion he is in control and that no one is in real danger. He creates akumas by amplifying his OWN negative emotions to tap into someone else's negative emotions which is canonically not healthy. we saw from fu that using the peacock even when your feelinsg are only slightly out of wack and those feelings werent even meant to go into the creation...it still caused the sentibeing to go insane and swallow all the guardians up and chase him across the continent for decades. mari using her power for even slightly selfish reasons caused her power to immediately start powering down that time she made a record to seperate chloe and adrien dancing. we also know that miraculouses can affect you physically as nathalie and emilie were physically affected by it health wise. we saw mari get affected by tikki when tikki went of her eating rampage when she transformed with tikki like that. they made a point of not knowing teh side affects of if he akumatized himself which he did anyway during collector. and that he is using his miraculous in a way it wasn't made to be used in this manner which means there WILL be side affects. just make a point of making is clear gabe genuinely DOES care(like how the bettermoth was like in the special) which would actually validate the times in the show he clearly DID show care like in collector when he genuinely apologized to adrien and made it clear the issue was with how gabe over reacted even when gabe didn't have to own up to it and how gabe was understanding and didn't shout at marinette when she returned the book. acknowledging it was brave of her to come forward and even answering her questions...and agreed not to tell adrien when she asked him not to tell adrien she took it. and that the time he has actively been a dick was just due to him trying to cause negative emotion to get another chance to save his wife...not that he genuinely actually felt that way...like to nino or trying to break up adrien and mari i chat blanc. like it doesnt change its trashy but motive is important.
then by bringing up that he is literally becoming worse due to how he is using the miraculous. think about it. Gabe becomes more agressive, more fixated, makes weirdly dumb mistakes at times and struggles to think outside of the box JUST like how akuma victims get weirdly more agressive and simple minde where they think they are incontrol and acting normal but they struggle to make plans themselfs and can't really be reasoned with and tend to have volitile emotions,....and tend to do things that don't actualy make sense for their motive at times or something they'd never do if they were thinking clearly. gabe isn't a akuma but he keeps amplifying his negative emotions playing this villian role.....where he thinks he is in control but becaue of what he is doing he is actually twisting his own emotions. that would make him being weirdly agressive and doing things that make no sense for his normal motive make more sense...his willingness to hit his son after finding out he is chat or use when its clear at other times he has some genuine care for adrien and worries about how adrien wold react if he found out about the truth. how his emotions seem more childish at times as the show went on. the times he went way cartoonishly evil like the nukes in newyork or the thanos snap in hongkong.... it would play into his huberious(which is that he THINKS he is incontrol of the situation and everything will go to plan)...not realizing that his actions have twisted him to the point his emotions have gotten more unstable....that would explain why he didnt think about the timetravel power to save the mom AND because he used the power to fixate on the cat and ladybug miraculous...it would explain why gabe snaps into villian mode even though we'd normally think his father side should take over...if its literally a side affect from using magic to force other victims to fixate on those miraculouses. and it would increase the tradgedy because he did try to give up but nathalie who genuinely wants the mom back as well encouraged him...with could stand for a metafor for what happens if a loved one enables bad behaviours of another loved one. this idea makes even MORE sense because when gabe is ACTUALLY around adrien properly and given time to listen to adrien properly there IS a pattern of gabe softening sometimes and being a bit more reasonable...but thats only on slightly longer exposure when it has time to sink in as gabe's isolation is driving him away from a ancher to his sanity which is adrien. people tend to overlook this pattern since they make gabe act so goddamn AWFUL. like it works both in how its easy to go down and slippery slope of doing bad things becuase we justify it to ourselves and gabe is usually hiden from seeing the damage he does and due to the fix it in the ladybug miracle has a easier time notrealizing people are really getting hurt. and the more gabe failes the more desperate he is becuase he thinks he is failing a loved one which just amplifies his grief and esperation more which makes him fixated more thinking he just has to try harder...but if they bring up it being a actual side affect from using the miraculous for the wrong reasons(at least the wrong way) affecting his emotions and mind...not to mention it creates a contrasting parallel to marinette. Gabe was not chosen while marinette was. marinette i using hers properly in moderation while gabe is using his improperly. mari has traits picked by a guardian(or a guradian in training at least). marintee gets proper training while gabe was going in without a proper translation. marinette had enough mental fortitude she was able to find a way to wear all the miraculous and not go insane...but the way gabe found a work around....i'm just saying they literally said there are bad affects from using even just two even just as three at times where insanity is a literal threat.
why doesn't the show just bring that out as something literally affecting gabe. if gabe was just pretending to be a villian/getting into character with the tradgedy being he literally ends up making himself more actually like a villian...much like how many akuma victims can lose sight of exactly what had hurt them or why they acted the way they did at times under the influence of their power...taking it out on unrelated people. that way they could keep the gabe has a redeemable aspect while ALSO explaining why he was getting worse and worse as a person and villian. not to mention gabe actually has STRONG parallels to marinette that never really gets adressed. both are into fashion/creative types. both come from middle classish families. mari from a bakery while gabe came from a restruant that has special fries. mari like adrien who is rich while gabe loved emilie who is heavily implied to be old money. both mari and gabe tend to make elaborate plans and complicate things to get to their goals. both can be a bit negative and paranoid at times. both can get cocky and have trouble listing to others when they think they are right/things ar egoing well/think they have a good plan. both get tunnel vision when they have a goal and both struggles at times putting themselves in other people's shoes accurately...often due to their bias of having info the other person doesn't have and will justify actions in self interest at times not realizing they are putting the other persons feelings down(like mari with max with teh gaming thing or julieka at teh birthday party for a example for mari). both gabe and marinette care for adiren but are bad at communicating that care/just assume adrien understands enough of it. both gabe and mari can be extra harsh on themselves at times. both mari and gabe had a bad habit of trying to control how things go a bit too much when they get stressed but are also emotionally vulnerable and genuinely needs support even as the more they stress and tunnel vision the more they push people who's help they had accepted before away. heck even the idea that gabe feels he was pushed into this by neccesity to save the mom while mari was given this role but had to step up in it. and both gabe and mari tend to underestimate the affect they have on people at times. like objectively I don't like how they handled the ending...with most people understandable disliking the most adrien not really being involved...but arguable it works is you focus on the parallels between mari and gabriel. how both were feeling more isolated as things went on even when things felt like it was going their way mostly and how gabe stopped getting or getting advice from nathalie while mari edspite having all that support struggled and started pushing away chat noir. not to mention a point is that mari tends to be stubborn and judge quickly with things. a strength is her sense of justice and standing up for her view and not letttin the otehr get away with excuse which she learned from alya and how she dealt with chloe in the early seasons when mari saw clhoe as simply evil/bad and how she saw hawkmoth as just bad where she was firm on the no one using the powers(for a good reason but definitly has the vibe of me wondering if she could easily say the same if it was her loved one at risk). mari tends to struggle to look beneath teh surface at times which means its a bit harder to trick her when your bad. but if she actually tries to realize that gabe is struggling and actually needs help and compassion and that its not simply him being evil.....this could be used as something she learned due to chat noir/adrien who wasn't as he seemed at first to her in the gum incident and who tends to be a bit more mature and patient and understands alot of bad people tend to act the way they due to to not knowing how to handle their emotions and that simple punishment might not always get the best results...if the show was going for her showing compassion due to realizing there is depth to people it would actually work pretty well if it connects a bit to how gabe and mari got along at the end of collector. what I still don't get though is even for that part to work how they handle chloe makes no sense. mari learned to face justice can work through chloe...but mari was also clearly learning that their is nuance to people even those who seem all powerful/like they have everything and seem just mean...might actually be going through alot and genuinely have a shoddy foundation on how to do better. the whole asepct of chloe was mari was realizibg people have more nuance using chloe...but if they make chloe completely irredeemable it makes NO sense. what I don't get even more is even if mari and friends don't know WE the audience knows that chloe was literally targetted. she was told her parents were targetted due to her DIRECTLY by the bad guys. they isolated her on a rooftop by literally cutting the wire to her signal so she couldn't communicate/call ladybug alot with a adult badguy who is mysterious. they played on how ladybug said chloe couldnt be the bee anymore so chloe wouldn't be targetted and that it would protect pollen by targetting chloe anyway so chloe would feel like she has no way to protect herself since ladybug took it away AND that LB failed to protect pollen as they had pollen and the other miraculouses after taking her parents hostages. and then digging into her insecurities DELIBERATLY. chloe only agreed to side with him after he released her parents and if she DIDN'T she not only had no way to know how he'd react but he had pollen and so at least by agreeing she go pollen and ther other miraculouses out of her hand. she messed up since the side heros were revealed which couldnt be taken back.
so CHloe thought she burnt her last bridge and she couldnt run away from what she did cuz her mom moved to paris and chloe isn;t good at properly articulating her feelings(especially after a master manipulator used LB as a scapegoat for her to blame which made chloe sound like it was her entitlment about being a hero when she HAD clearly accepted she wasn't going to be the bee in a previous episode and did it to free her hostaged parents who hawkmoth implied he might keep targetting chloe earlier). she clearly didn;t know how to cope as she was grumpy still in the newyork special....but there was a parallel that chloe was acting weirdly even worse that she did in earlier seasons/being meaner as a coping mechanism because its what she was familiar with. being good isnt something taht comes naturally to her and she tried so hard and failed and t hurt but chloe chose to cope by being mean/stop trying. and then suddenly a sister who had been with the mom all this time(something chloe had wanted for years) shows up who understands this nice thing and who everyone seems to like and then instead of having someone listen to her vent or feel like her felings were valid...adrien threatened to cut of the friendship he promised would last becuase she wasn't being nice so she cut it herself(like on one hand it was good adirne stood up to her and didn't enable chloe there but I also understood chloe clearly just wanted to have her feelings validated and adrien didn't properly make her feel listened to)...but chloe hnestly was relying on going through the motions of being a bully again since its what she was used to...which actually paralleled how BOTH mari and adrien relied on old habits to try to act like tings were fine and to cope...both mari and adrien relied on their old crushs to try to pretend they were normal...trying to use it as something unchanging and stable when everything else was changing which didnt actually help adress their problems...the contrast in the show acknowledges teh cover up when it comes to adrien and mari where it gets kindof adressed by someone else noticing it or the show makes the audience notice it at least even if no one else notices....but not with chloe. the tradgic spiral that chloe needs help but didnt get it cuz no one had the context to communicat ewith her properly and chloe is bad at communicating doesnt get adressed even as something the audience knows when teh show tries to blatantly say chloe is iredeemable.... but chloe being irrdeemable makes no sense when mari has to learn people can be redeemed for her to sympathize or show any compassion toward gabe to make ANY freaking sense. even is is they could help at least solve a chunk of gabe's issues by adressing gabe's behaviour was getting worse due to the miraculous affects or using too many or something or amplifying his own negative emotions that many times...and adressing the parallel to mari would make at least adrien not being there a bit better as him being a type of dark mirror to her...even more after seeing how good bettermoth was as a person...just point that was sort of gabe's original vibe to some degree along with his struggle to communicate his feelings since he was used to the disipline role while the mom handled more of the emotion stuff. like the issue for me isn;t that gabe being redeemed couldn't work...my issue is if they ommit him literally going insane due to how he was using the miraculous entirely he just seems like a strait up abusive person with no real feelings and that them redeeming him makes no sense from how they set it up. heck it would have even made a stronger parallel to collector becuase mari asked gabe to keep the secert she took the book from adrien which adrien was nderstanding and saw it was brave to come forward with something after things escalte when she could have stalled with how mari was understanding about gabe to some degree and agreed to keep it a secert like he had. honestly I think a better quick end would be where mari is able to stop the wish but she offered him help from the gurdians who have experience and might have a way to save the mom and nathalie without the wish...pointing to the point of how gab;e tunnelvision and not asking for help assuming he wouldnt get it de to his actions blinded him to another option...and parallel how ladybug and chat stopp akumas who think they are doing a acton that would get them what they want in the end...but when ladybug and chat find their core issue they tend to find a alternate way to fix their issue with people actually knowing what the issue was. though I actually heard a theroy that chloe was sent to rock bottom so now she could potential grow after losing everything...which is still a dick move on the shows part bit COULD work where maybe mari might realize there was something redeemable in chloe again later but that mari had been blind to it due to hawkmoth/gabe and not really realizing the lila context. lowkey i kindof hope zoey turns out to be evil and actively tried to take chloe's place.
Ah yeah I get hat you mean. Like as soon as we found out why he was doing it, I did have a lot of sympathy for him. I always thought he had a good motivation but what they did with him this last season was just odd And as you point out, as villains go, he isn’t that bad in terms of his Hawk Moth sheningnas. Akuma victims don’t seem to remember much and it all gets reapired, so while it’s still wrong, he isn’t all that bad And as you also point out, there were multiple better ways to portray Gabriel. I don’t understand why they make a lot of the decisions they do. I really wish they had explored his character more. I love complex villains, especially one as you point out who is so similar to the lead character While I don’t think that the ending doens’t work, like the pace and wriitng and structure of it is all fine, I’m more concerned with the wider implications of it and the child audience watching and what they will think, writing for children is tricky because they’re an easily influential audience thank you for taking the time to write all of this out!
yeah its especially worrying because this show in particular is hard to read and what they show doesn't match what they say is happening or what lesson they say we should get from it. kids who take things completely at face value are liable to just take what they say as the truth and those who can read a little deeper will be confused because the 'lesson' doesn't quite match up with whats actually shown. I honestly thought it was weird that the show was trying to act like a man trying to save his wife as completely unreasonable. its not even a 'oh he's trying to bring back the dead which is unnatural and unfair because why should only he bring back a loved one'. she was literally alive in a coma where the reason she was sick was due to the miraculous in the first place. @@hazeclarke
I liked season 5 because it felt like the target audience was slightly older with the themes and stuff. Part of me really enjoyed it and part of me makes me so infuriated
I'm surprised that no one has Gabriel Agreste (or Tamoe) on a Top 10 Hated Animated/Cartoon Characters List yet... To me, Gabriel crossed the Moral Event Horizon when he did what he did to the Kwamis in Season 5 & Adrien in the finale. As someone who suffers from anxiety, what Gabriel did to Adrien in the finale was HECKING DISGUSTING & he totally did not deserve a redemption! How Gabriel treats Nooroo in Sandboy is awful, & Cat Blanc & Ephemeral made us upset with what he did to his son, but S5 crossed the line for me 😡🤮.
Gabriel literally tried to start ww3 at one point, just to get what he wanted. He was completely unhinged and irredeemable. And I can't imagine how this will shake Adrien to his core if he learns the truth. That would hurt anyone's ability to trust.
As much as I COMPLETELY agree with you on this, I don't think they are going to address it. I just don't think that MLB is going to paint Gabriel as a villain again or just not redeem him. I wish they would but I don't think they would do it as delicately as it needs to be, given the way season 5 ended. Does that make any sense?
I never understod, why they say Gabriel was redeemed? He wasn't. He was PRESENTED as a good person, yes, but so does some abusers. They never implayed it's good what he did with Adrien. Yes, I agree it should have been adressed, but I feel they did not, because they had no time... And yeah,it sucks that's going to be only in S6... Also, the difference is, Nathalie just mentioned the tapes, Marinette showed them
He was redeemed. They don’t need to say it for it to be true. Building a big statue of him and remembering him as a hero is a redemption. And if they didn’t have time to do it, then they shouldn’t have. While I’m sure it will be addressed next season, as I said in the video, I don’t think it’s worth the pain and harm it’s causing - as exhibited by the people in my comments who have been abused who had to watch that finale
@@hazeclarke well... I fully respect this oppinion, and see where you and these peaple coming from. And by no mean I want to de-valuate their (or your) pain in an expedience. I just suggest, he is more of a false hero, than redeemed. He didn't get the statue because what he did, but because Ladybug told them. Same with Adrien, she lied, because she wanted to save him from pain. So I feel he wasn't redeemed but rather lied about, in order to save his family from shame (specificly Adrien). I mean, he is dead, so can't be punished, but his family could be looked down because of him... I agree, she might should have told Adrien specificly, creating a short of middle ground. But yeah, they didn't had time for that, and I agree with yout frustration, than it should have been handled with more care. I hope I wasn't hartful with my comment, wich wasn't intendec to be so, but I'm sorry if I was
I'm sorry but people being mad about this is beyyyyond dumb LOL Miraculous has always been a show that has favored the concepts of redemption, love, friendship, and letting go. We this literally every damn episode, so of course Gabriel was always going to have some kind of cathartic ending where he finally accepts his reality. And I emphasis cathartic ending and not redemption because it's NOT A REDEMPTION. Even if it was, keep crying about it. Gabriel's "sacrifice" was nothing short of an allegory for suicide, and the people of Paris worshipping him with a statue afterwards is clearly making a commentary about our real world idols and how so many of them were probably shitty people who managed to get away with being shitty people and we need to look deeper into their past actions before we decide to build status of these people and worship them. HOW people saw that and got "yeah the show is excusing him and paint him as a hero now" from it I have no idea but it's such a smooth brain take, sorry not sorry. Nuance and critical thinking is a lost art
It’s certainly ironic of you to say that nuance and critical thinking is a lost art, when you yourself exhibit just that in your comment. While I agree what Gabriel does in re-creation is suicide, and that the show often looks at redemption and letting go, that doesn’t mean my view, and the view of plenty of others of the finale, is incorrect To me, Gabriel gets away with what he has done, and not only that, but he gets a statue to commemorate him, which to me, was a redemption, and as someone who has been abused, was disgusting to see - and this view from other people in the comments who have sadly also been abused has been echoed It’s entirely possible for Gabriel to have a cathartic ending - but to me, and many others, it does send the message that your abuser is a hero. I think there are multiple ways they could have changed him as a person and owned up to the abuse to have his ending be cathartic. But there isn’t. Instead, he asks for Adrien to remember him as a good dad. To me, that isn’t cathartic. It’s asking Adrien to love his abuser, and to me, that is disgusting As I said at the start of my reply, you say that nuance and critical thinking is a lost art - yet you are unable to exhibit either of those yourself. While your view of the finale is certainly different to mine, it does not make my view or your view incorrect. And then you took that one step further and were rude. If someone disagrees with your opinion in the future, I would encourage you to exhibit those qualities of nuance and critical thinking and try to understand why someone thinks the way they do. Perhaps someone dislikes the way Gabriel was portrayed after the wish in Re-Creation was because something similar happened to them with their abuser - and if it’s such a sensitive topic, perhaps you should also try to be kinder
Gabriel was given multiple chances to redeem himself, especially when he kept putting his son in danger, but continued to commit several crimes including mass destruction, brainwashing, attempted genocide in New York and Shanghai, terrorism, slavery and technically animal abuse (with the kwamis), etc. The only truly good things he did were allowing Adrien to go to school and giving him a present during the first Christmas without his mother, but that doesn't excuse his previous actions because he's still one of the worst parents on Miraculous.
exactly~
I still think that Marinette never fed the Kwamis the entire time she had them and the one time she was going to Tikki pigged all the treats herself.
You know the same Tikki who called Plagg Selfish for eating the cheese in Sandboy and for running away in Oblivio Who then has recently been seen stealing food 3 or more times now. (Didn't she even eat out of dustbin once too)
You forgot cooking Adrien pancakes 😁
We can redeem Gabriel, but we can’t redeem Chloe-💀
🙃🙃🙃🙃
It's stupid on their part. Gabriel was like so much worse 😭
@@hazeclarkeThe only silver lining that I can see is that Gabriel's ending isn't going to stick, and Chloe's story isn't over and is most likely returning in season 6.
They are hypocrites.
Except neither were going to be redeemed…. And neither were redeemed….
As a victim of emotional abuse, what they did with Gabriel was terrible!!!! Adrien definitely deserves closure after being abused for such a long time, but instead he was like "I'll never be as good as him" like what!?
I'll always be upset about what happened to me, but at the same time it allowed me to grow from that experience and become stronger. Adrien won't be able to do that and it's also teaching a lesson that you should always forgive your abusers even if they don't deserve it. It's such a terrible lesson to teach to kids.
im so sorry you had to go through that
omg right?! he doesn't get any closure and he's supposed to forgive his dad. screw that
That just continues the cycle of abuse even if the abuse changes its' appearance.
100% agreed. Gabe’s redemption wasn’t earned in the slightest. Whether as Gabriel or HawkMoth, he was horrible to everyone around him.
And spot on about the message that it sends to its young audience. I can’t even fathom what they were thinking by going with this ending.
Thank youuuu 💖
Gabriel did a lot of bad things like Akumatized a lot of people, he abused his son, ruins Adrien's relationship with Marinette, He thought of being Emily back a lot. But he had a chance to do it in the first episode of season 5 but he didn't do that. He decided he was going to stop Ladybug and Cat noir instead. He also didn't think of saving Natalie from closely dying either. And when Gabriel changed suddenly some people in the show think that he's a hero even though he was a supervillain. I still think he's a villain and a bad father. He doesn't deserve to be redeemed.
THISSSS
Thomas never fails to disgust us
💅🏻💅🏻💅🏻💅🏻
🤣
I literally cried after watching everyone think he was a hero 😭
If Gabriel Babes can get redeemed, then by Astruc’s standards, so can Lila/Cerise, Chloe, anyone else committing crimes
Exactly!
@@hazeclarke Lila/Cerise/Iris just needs a mother's love.. ideally several of them.
At least the movie is better, Gabriel realize what he have done. He end up going to jail instead of getting reward.
Gabriel made Adrien wear Orange Hightops in public ; this is why he is a true villain.
😂😂😂😂😂
They say they couldn't make Gabriel be punished so it wouldn't affect the children, but if that was the case they should have made him have something to justify it
That’s a ridiculous reason 😭. By making him have no consequence to his actions, isn’t it just going to teach children that you can get away with doing bad things? In addition, what is the point of making such an evil character and not giving him a satisfying downfall? I’m sure we’ve all been waiting for that and for what? Kinda makes me feel like I wasted my time.
tbf lila already promotes that message@@CupCakeBug
@@gabesuniverse5566she got exposed tho
@@summerheart9834 Only for her to "beat the system" by switching identities just so she can do it all over again.
@@Jellygirl313 yea that's true
I still can’t believe everyone was lied to about Gabriel and Mari went along with it! I hope it’s one day revealed to everyone and not ignored
Marinette Lied to her Boyfriend's face, kept it a secret from Cat Noir (so far at least) & gained and huge advantage from loosing (again)
@@90lancaster yea thats true. i dont hate her but i rly wish she was written better. i kind of want her to get the consequences of hiding everything from adrien so she knows she cant just keep smth huge like that away from him. maybe a potential setback in the lovesquare off it would be interesting.
ik i sound evil but i actually kind of want to see her pass the guardianship to someone else... just for drama
@@summerheart9834 Well there is the problem of the Love Square to deal with so I kinda expect Ladybug will tell Cat Noir in a way that makes Marinette look bad resulting in Adrinette ''Taking a break' & Ladynoir ramping back up again. we might even get some Ladrien out of it too. & Marichat would then be the toxic ship with Marinette being annoyed with Cat Noir as she will think he told Adrien about Gabriel babes being a baby akumatiser.
I can't quite figure out how they can break them up and make it look like Adrien's fault but I think they will some how manage it.... as they do.
@@90lancaster i would rather they have a reveal before the truth gets out- i dont want adrien to still see ladybug/marinette because i think the truth should fully come out. plus there's extra drama that way.
also ive never liked marichat so there's that lol-
@@summerheart9834 i rlly think Ladybugs gonna tell Cat Noir and it may lead to a reveal of sorts
This show dropped the ball in terms of character motives and agency. Felix NOT telling the main hero who their enemy is makes no sense in hindsight.
oh god don't get me started on representation
I think they used the tired redemption equals death idea is an empty. where as Avatar the last Airbender’s Prince Zuko was the greatest redemption arc in television since it was gradual and became the blueprint of how to make a rewarding redemption arc.
you know you messed up when trolls 3 introduces better villains in less than 2 hours
Perhaps I'm forgetting the ending, but if they made Gabriel a hero, who did they say hawkmoth was? Like they just accepted that he was defeated, but just disappeared? Surely people would be wondering who was terrorising them for the past year?
honestly it seems that way!
@@hazeclarke Maybe they think Hawkmoth isn't Human !
If anything, we should blame ladybug for allowing him to get redemption. She could’ve chose to expose him but didn’t. Gabriel has no control, he’s dead 😢 anyway I don’t understand this show anymore. Thomas has ruined this show so much. He’s turned ladybug into a liar.
I read the 13 Reasons Why book before watching the TV show. The message in the book is portrayed differently than the TV show. The author write 13 Reasons while he was processing his niece's attempt. In the book the focus is very much on Clay hearing Hannah's tapes and processing the information. The book even leaves the reader with the sense Clay isn't quite sure what he does now, as he passes the tapes along to the next person on the list. The TV show doesn't leave any ambiguity Clay gathers friends around himself as he faces his own depression. The show is also about how everyone needs to take action to prevent suicide. I hate to admit I think Gabriel only got a "redemption" for the drama it will create next season without regard to what other implications it has. I think we've already seen how Adrien is conflicted because when Marinette offers him the rings and says his father wants him to wear them, Adrien looks like he doesn't want to wear them.
i agree. i think it's all heading for a big dramatic plot that will see ladybug and cat noir fall out or mari and adrien or whatever combination, but i'm not sure it's worth it
@@hazeclarkeI hope next season, that Marinette keeping this secret is eating her alive inside.
I wouldn't be able to live with myself, keeping that kind of secret
Hopefully they display that keeping these kinds of secrets is bad, emotionally and mentally. Just because an adult asks you to keep a secret, doesn't mean you always should
Face it: Gabriel got away with it. And it isn't over yet. Marinette's going out with a boy who doesn't know that his daddy was THE villain of the show. Several weeks ago, I speculated that a guilt-ridden Marinette as Ladybug would tell Cat Noir what really happened. I was serious. Imagine the fallout... 😈
I agree with you. I was so frustrated when Gabriel gets redemption while Chloe didn’t get one. Maybe that the last 6 episodes in season five could have been more or less controversial because of reasons. I feel like when writers wrote the redemption arcs and they redeem the wrong person. No wonder the fans (mainly Chloe fans) are still upset about this while Chloe haters are still celebrating in Revolution. Unfortunately, her redemption hasn’t started yet. Why are Chloe haters are celebrating, just like they did in both Revolution and Representation, while Chloe fans are upset about it? It’s like Super Bowl 51 all over again.
Oh god idk why they make these decisions
Once again. Thomas think and abusive father who's also a villain and a terrorist is redeemable when he only showed redeeming traits in few instantces.
While a teenage girl who's parent's parenting lead her to act the way she does and actually showed more redeeming traits. And can still change. Is not redeemable.
This is not how to write redeemable characters.
The movie did it better anyway!
@@Jellygirl313 Thomas said once "The Movie gives you what you want ; I give you what you need".
Oh how we loled.
@@90lancasterThomas is clearly delusional if he thinks that😂
oh god when i read that tweet... i had a volatile reaction
@@hazeclarke Thomas is legitametly running the show inti the ground just by being in Twitter.
This decision was absolutely disgusting- but not as disgusting as Gabriel babe's disgusting banana pancakes that he forced Adrien to eat. Ugh! They didn't look good either. Marinette for once was in the right when she roasted him.
What you mean gab force his son to eat pancakes I mean he could have like say to his father can I please have some thing else to eat
Adrien now likes bland pancakes as he's a bland person who is unable to make any of his own choices.
Where as before he used to like Passionfruit as he was passionate.
Kagami was right about him though all along every bad thing she ever said about him was more than true.
@@elizabethslama3326remember he's a sentimonster so he can't challenge his father and he probably felt good about the nice gesture, it was more of a joke
BEFORE EVEN WATCHING THE DAMN VIDEO: 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 AGREED
🥳🥳🥳🥳
Wouldn't it be hilarious if the writers never tackle the Agreste arc's big lie in the upcoming seasons, and Cat Noir never finds out the truth like we expect him to?
I'll be honest, this feels within the realm of possiblities for our favourite writing team to do.
I WILL DIE MAD
@@hazeclarke Your comfort show is Miraculous, of course you'll die mad
I think the reason gabriel went insane is because of him using all the miraculous hell master fu even said in kwamibuster that you should not use all the miraculous or else youll lose your mind
If Marinette is engineering a situation where she becomes creative director of Gabriel's brand then she would have a reason STOP Adrien or Cat Noir from sabotaging the brand and legacy of Gabriel in her own selfish interest.
omg i hope not
@@hazeclarke The problem with Marinette is that her imagined actions can often be scarily similar to the imagined actions of Lila or even Chloe, as at one point each of the girls have competed to effectively "own" Adrien's soul. That is why I respect Kagami (awkward nerd that she is) as at least she asked some of the difficult questions about her and Adrien's relationship rather than automatically go "This is fine, its all fine".
The problem is that Marinette did not understand Adrien at all so she'd been in love with a false image the only way they undid that is very poorly after risk with things like video calls.making at best their relationship more like one where two people have just met.
I didn't see Marinette making any "Cute video calls to Luka" though or Adrien with Kagami. Rather than make Adrinette look genuine to me it makes it look really forced.
That is why I think if the poke at their relationship it will crumbed as they still don;'t know each other well at all.
They give the impression that Ladybug just uses Cat Noir for personal validation and isn't even his friend, she at times in the shows run seems to forget he exists at all when he's not standing in front of her.
I think it is no coincidence that the episodes we did get where their relationship at least hinted at being more healthy were the ones that had less involvement by Thomas.
What is the point of a love square if they ignore half of it entirely and made 1/4 of it entirely platonic. some of the time and then the other rest of the time have Ladybug acting all "The grass is greener" and pinning over Cat Noir (while she has a boyfriend) that being on top of the other many times she's made to look flighty and disloyal to her feeling towards Adrien.
If it was some random soap opera then I'd just say fine they are just being teenagers.. but this is a show that speaks about love in the titles and implies that LB&CN are "supposed" to be some epic love story..
By going all second act love interest in a romcom with the show it breaks the show it make Marinette look terrible in a way the show just doesn't with Adrien as he has a decent reason to look else where as CN was constantly rejected.
The real joke is that Marinette still has not been rejected and so Adrien has never really had to make a choice he's just consumed what was put in front of him be that Kagami or Marinette or failed Ladybug.
Maybe they should have done a love triangle with Cat Noir & Vesperiea and Marinette & Zoe instead !
At least you;'d have something different going on thant painfully awkward Adriinette.
I agree with you, it was disgusting to redeem him!
After watching the video: If there's anything about this finale, it completely showed how wild and all over this season was. There was so many things, and particularly making him seem unredeemable, just to redeem him. I think this might be my least favorite season so far, feeling like a season 1, when it is labeled as a season 5...
Honestly yeah this whole season was a mess
I would say that I had some respect for Gabriel from Season 1 to some time in season 3 but after that I just hated the jerk.
I do however have much respect for movie Gabriel and Re-verse Gabriel because they earned my respect.
The biggest irony for me with Gabriel is that he said he TRIED to be a good dad but WHEN did he ever TRY because there wasn't really much of a difference between how he treated Adrien when he was a model and after Adrien quit being a model besides the fact that he put Adrien on a longer leash with more leeway than last time but still just as bad so no Dad of the year for Gabriel anytime soon unless it's for the category of world's worst dad.
Also, Gabriel made lousy pancakes which it's a miracle didn't send Adrien to the ER for food poisoning.
I've seen my share of villains being redeemed as heroes in their deaths but at least they earned their redemption.
Gabriel being remembered as a "hero" is just an insult as he did nothing to earn it and it leaves a bad message that a bad guy who has done the worst things deserves to be remembered as a good person consequence free.
The only reason I can think of for Gabriel getting this kind of ending is that his soul is probably about to put through his own personal of hell and torment and he's not really reunited in the afterlife with Emilie.
Wouldn't it be a crazy kind of Karma if Gabriel's soul was cursed as punishment to NEVER be reunited with Emilie whether it's in the afterlife or even as a reincarnation and he can only watch as Emilie lives a happy life with someone who isn't him.
This could be the universe's personal extra punishment for his actions against the Kwamis.
At this point, one of my expectations with season 6 is that Gabriel's statue get mangled snd destroyed beyond repair that even the miracle cure doesn't want to fix it.
Gabriel's explanation for why he wants to be a terrorist in the videogame makes him look really deranged.
Movie Gabriel was so good!
Omg when did he try?! What was this man on that he thought he tried?!
He absolutely 100% did not deserve the redemption
YEAHH thank you so much for speaking on this!!!
Ive been thinking about this for so long and i hated how the fandoms been ignoring this shit as well
As someone who legit was abused as a kid i find this choice to be absolutely disgusting and the fact people choose to ignore it (at least from what ive seen) is worrying af (imo at least)
Anyhow worst choice the show ever made, speaking as a fan whos been following this since earky season 2
oh gosh im so sorry you had to go through this, however from what i've seen, i know im not the only one who feels like this
I mean I absolutely agree if they were going to redeem Gabriel they should’ve tried to do something at the end of season 4 or the beginning of season 5 I really don’t care they should’ve just make it make more sense cause right now this just came out of no where. Like you said haze Gabriel was a horrible person all season he completely lost it he practically left natile in her bed to pretty much die in conformation he hated marinette and her relationship with adrien which in my opinion I have no idea why though I mean what did marinette do to make you hate her so much Gabriel that just proves how insane he is he just doesn’t want his son with anyone else and only kagami for some reason which like I said before why do you even care about adrien being with kagami yeah like his redemption that just came out of no where I guess he doesn’t want his son to be happy. Lastly he forced his son to go to London just so he can keep adrien away from marinette for a year I mean how cruel can you be when you literally make your son scared of you right before you force him to get on a plane to London.seriously after everything that Gabriel did in season 5 you still have the audacity to redeem him I mean I’m sorry but we’re the writers asleep when they were writing the end of recreation look I don’t hate the season 5 finale but what I do hate about it is the fact that Gabriel got redeemed especially after everything he did in season 5 not counting seasons 1 through 4 cause he did terrible things but at least he was a decent father season 5 and a little of season 4 absolutely not anyways I swear if adrien doesn’t find out and cataclysm the statue I’m going to be mad cause that statue needs to go and adrien needs to know everything and I think the best way is if he finds out as cat noir cause ladybug will tell her partner I mean he other than Alya is the most trustworthy person. Anyways that’s my opinion sorry for it being this long I had a lot to say anyways have a great day❤.
There is a suggestion that the Alliance rings are imbued with some sort of magical aspect so that statue might be possessed or something !
Heck Maybe Tomoe will turn it into an android or something, or maybe like the LB & Cat Noir statue they totally forgot ever existed it will simply disappear and it isn't in the park in the footage Zag showed.
with every character the show redeems it just makes them not redeeming chole even worse in hindsight because they are all worse people than she ever was when they gave up on her redemption
God yeah
Well this is certainly something because it is yet another thing we agree on
To be honest in the episode Revolution is where we see Gabriel at his worst especially when he raised his voice at Adrien and forced him to get ready to get on the plane he even use the I am your father line like he said in episode 22 and to top it off in episode 1of season 5 evolution at the end Gabriel was given a chance to bring Emile back but was too focused on getting the miraculous.
Oh I’ve made a new account too. Anyway just wanted to say how I felt about Gabriel agreste that’s all.
If Adrien is just a feather Gabriel isn't related to him at all.
I feel like you don’t need to watch this to know how wrong they were to do that (I am going to watch ofc but you get the idea)
lol absolutely not. I know I’m not the only one with this opinion!
@@hazeclarke I had a really weird thought the other week what if the Supreme isn't human but is actually a robot (even evil Markov or Evil Uncanny Valley or some sort of AI gestalt like the one Markov Mentioned)
This would explain why they'd hand out Miraculous to Humans if they can't use them, it could also be the Robots that Killed Mayura. They might therefore let Lila keep her miraculous after making a deal with her, the Butterfly Miraculous might be useful to them though as it would allow them to use Miraculous Power as Mayor Queen did with her robots. I also am very suspicious that Tomoe isn't human either. The real one being killed by using the damaged Peafowl Miraculous.
i know he was redeemed, but it was done so badly that you can't even notice or call a redemption
lmaoooo the children i know who watched it noticed
@@hazeclarke Thomas thinks Ladybug won by convincing him to die (even though he destroyed the entire Universe in the process).
hey haze 😊, i need to Know if this is true, i've seen a supposed sinopsis for one night mission (LA special) on a spanish channel called nathaniel FD which reads as follows:
[When the chaos caused by the Monarch's Final attack disrupts the elite ranks of United Heroez, Ladybug and Cat Noir must face known villains around the world. While Lady Dragon and Eagle come to the aid of the fight against the army of Techno-comrades, Marinette is looking for the Magicians' Metal to repair the recovered Miraculous. Will our heroes be able to bring order to disturped world and bring the new era?]
it was supposedly released alongside the reverse sinopsis, but i haven't seen anybody on the english community cover this, the channel in question has always been factual, but i'm not sure
All leaks are fake so don’t believe anything you see!
I would note that every special and quite possibly the Christmas one as well seem to take place out of order with the show in some sense or other. thought it is kinda impossible for the New York Special to even be in continuity anyway.
There is something fishy about that Amelie and Nathelie scene at the end of Season 5.
In fact there is something fishy about everything at the end after the wish.
I hope it isn't Adrien dreaming it all while still in his London prison cell.
We have had so many fake outs on the show already why not another one !
I think it’s real! But because it’s perfect it’s unnerving
@@hazeclarke They did say there is some twist or trick involved in the ending but didn't say what. I suppose it is to much to hope for that Caline Bustier is a robot.
So I am not ruling out something weird like Nathalie being a hologram. Or Amelie pretending to be Emelie or Emelie pretending to be Amelie or something even more bizarre. But I mainly say that as I just don't trust Tomoe's motives an inch.
"I know it seems like I hate the show, but I don't. I am a writer, I have degrees in creative writing, it's how I'm wired, I see stories and think whether they were done as well as they could've been." There's nothing wrong with that, Besties!
Here's this viewer's take on things: Gabie-baby had a false redemption, insofar as he knew to the last that he'd done wrong, by his own admission to Marinette - "don't let Adrien remember me as a bad guy (indeed, don't tell him that I was THE bad guy) but divert his attention to whatever crumbs of goodness I may have displayed towards him." There's one such in "Gorizilla," when Gabriel sits with Adrien and puts on the film starring Emilie, which Adrien had always wanted to see. At the end of the season, everyone in the cast apart from Marinette thinks of him as a good guy, but we watchers know otherwise.
You cited a Mozart opera, Hazie! It's completely beside the point of this video, but if anyone were looking for a good route into opera, there cannot be many better examples than "The Magic Flute." Actually, it may be relevant to the show after all, insofar as at least one character (The Queen of the Night) is initially reported as being good but turns out to be evil, or at least untrustworthy. Almost like Gabriel and Lila combined, you could say!
exactly! even gabriel knew he didn't deserve a redemption!
the magic flute does sound interesting!
I don’t know what this video is about, but reading the title, I agree wholeheartedly!!
lol thank you
So, first off. Critiquing something doesn't kean you don't love it. If a family member slid into bad habits, you wouldn't stay silent.
Secondly I think something vital (and something that makes me not share your optimism about S6)
The reason we know Gabriel was to be considered redeemed is: Marinette respected his wishes. She prioritized Gabriel's desires over Adrien's agency. BUT S6! I hear people say... And for most shows I would agree. However-
Miraculous has a protagonist centered morality. That is, Marinette can be wrong during an episode but by the end she is always correct. It's not an uncommon writing style for a kids show, but it does come with some baggage. Hindsight is basically non-existent. Revisiting things doesn't work. We can see it in ML in several places. Marinette's jealousy costing Fu his memory is never addressed. Her going gangbusters on Lila and playing into her hands, nope that's Adrien apologizing next time Lila pops up for being naive. There are plenty of other examples.
So Marinette carrying out Gabe's wishes by the end of the finalé means she and therefor the show, approves of them. It is *possible* S6 will have a paradigm shift from the previous 5 seasons and break this style ... but counting on it is betting against a pattern.
thank you, bestie
@@hazeclarke I should clarify. S6 may be good in other ways, I just meant in terms of providing a good msg abt Gabe/abuse. I expect they'll just try to bury it all and move on.
Wow Haze another video!
Honestly, thank you for sharing this. You perfectly encapsulated my gripes with the finale. Thank you.
You’re very welcome 🥰
We have news that Cerise's last name is Bianca And the end of Ladybug is taking place after season 5 and the end of phase one It will be the last special to use the Maya engine before jumping to Unreal Engine 5
I think S1 and S2 had at least still had Gabriel at points he could still be redeemable. Since compared to later seasons, i don't Gabriel was as abusive(like manipulating Adrien) in the first two seasons he's only guilty of being an absent and cold/distant parent.
Why i prefer Gabriel in the movie, since i feel the movie at least stays with the early seasons, so i feel the Redemption in the movie was at least earned compared to the show.
Gabriel lost my sympathy after S3, that's seriously when the physical and mental abusive started I personally feel.
yessss will movie gabriel was neglectful, you also saw the toll it took on him as well
I genuinely, GENUINELY fear someone in Adrien's watching this show and being gaslit into thinking their own situation is okay.
omg exactly 👏🏻👏🏻 the amount of people in the comments telling me you can’t watch it as gabriel being redeemed 🙃
How is him ending up dead redemption?
his death has got nothing to do with. you can redeem someone, dead or alive. what makes his redemption is having adrien believe he's a good dad and building a statue of him
Tbh I don’t think he was really redeemed. He just ended up “winning” at the end. And to be fair his bad acts didn’t go unpunished, he did die. But that’s my opinion anyways feel free to tell me otherwise
You can still be punished and be redeemed. He wasn’t redeemed because he won. Mari letting Adrien believe his dad was good and the statue are what make him redeemed
Sometimes death is a relief and an escape in this case, he wanted to die to be with Emilie, so it wouldn't even be a punishment because he wanted this
I think what lila saw was the opening of the door the from opposite universe
Behind lila if you observe there were some sparks it should have been something electrical maybe
I agree with you bestie
I felt some type of way at the finale like it just felt really gross. I was thinking "they cannot be serious" like theres no way they just threw everything Gabriel did away. And then celebrate him??? I just could not fathom they actually went that route.
Me neither 🙃🙃🙃
I agree season 5 left a lot of holes and needs a lot of coverage I have so many questions and disappointed I never got certain moments that I hope season 6 can fix some for us like adrien finding out his dad is shadow daddy I’m still angry I never saw the ladrien moment especially him being over his ladybug crush or get to see how tender ladybug she would be trying to remember that at that moment he’s not her boyfriend mabe u could make a fan fiction haze help us out and the fact that Adriens reunion with plagg and possibly plagg and tikki having a brief moment to check on each other I’m interested to know if gabe was similar to gabe in shadybug claw noir before Emily’s death ☠️
ah yeah this certainly wasn't the only problem i had with the season!
THIS VIDEO>>>>>>
he was a psychopath a monster who only cared about himself
Gabriel: Does Terrorism, abuses his son, puts paris (and the world) in danger everyday, akumatized people against their will, akumatized his son against his will, controls his son's love life, and restarting the world and told Marinette to tell his son he's a fantastic father.
Gabriel: I DiD It BeCaUsE My WiFe Is DeAd!
Rocket: ***Everybody's got dead people! It's no excuse to get everybody else dead along the way!***
😂😂😂😂😂
Alrighty. Let me stop you right there. Gabriel wasn’t redeemed. Honestly, it genuinely confuses me how people can look at what happened in season five and the finale and seriously say he was redeemed.
He never acknowledge what he did was wrong, and if anything, he doubled down in his belief that he was in the right.
Marinette basically just gave him a single chance to finally do right by Adrien and give up on his quest, but he didn’t. He basically just committed suicide so he could avoid the responsibility of his own actions, and he attacked her, took the miraculi from her and made his wish.
He then also proceeded to basically emotionally blackmail her to not tell anyone.
Speaking of Marinette’s decision decision I also have some thoughts about that.
I actually don’t think it’s as bad as people are making it out to be and I think there’s a few more mitigating factors that I think more people should be keeping in mind.
1. The butterfly miraculous is current status is incredibly precarious and at this point, they don’t know what happened to it, or if it’s potentially in the hands of someone worse. We the audience know that it’s the hands of everyone’s favorite spawn of Satan but they don’t.
2. Adrien being a senti
Marinette now knows that Adrien is a sentimonster, and as a result, she now has to be extra mindful to make sure he cannot be akumatized. If the wrong item gets infected, it can very well result in him getting killed and she absolutely cannot risk that.
3. Adrien’s safety if people knew Gabriel was monarch.
This point in particular boggles my mind that more people aren’t thinking more about. Guys, really think about this. How do you think the city would treat the child of the person who had terrorized the city for God knows how long? Best case scenario Adrian would be a social pariah , because of what his dad did, worst case scenario, he would actually have basically a huge target on his back.
As for the subject of Chat Noir not being there, I think more people are forgetting that in previous episodes like Chat Blanc and Ephemeral made it pretty clear that Chat being there would have been a BAD idea.
Every single time Gabriel found out about his son being Chat Noir he IMMEDIATELY took advantage of it. He instantly used that info to Akumatize him and won the fight with that knowledge.
while i can see where you’re coming from in that he didn’t acknowledge what he’s done, the show doesn’t handle redemptions normally. people often don’t apologise in this show and are redeemed (eg felix). and even if he wasn’t redeemed, i don’t think it’s crazy for people to interpret it that way when the man gets a statue in the park and is remembered as a martyr
he can manipulate marinette and have everyone believe he was a hero. both can be true at the same time
lol i’m not saying everyone should know Gabriel was monarch - but i do think his son should know
and i think you are forgetting that adrien is not the same as in cat blanc or ephemeral. his relationship with his dad is colder and distant now. and thomas making that statement is just him confirming adrien hasn’t developed since season 3
Hey, Bestie! We need a fanfic crossover between Nightmare Scenerio and Miraculous! Would that be considered a fanfic, though? Or like a half fanfic? 😂😂😂😂😂 Still waiting for the next chapter of Nobody Else, though! Any idea when we can expect the next chapter? 😂😂😂😂😂
ooo that would be cool! and it should be soon, i promise!
I'm so ready for this next chapter, Bestie!
I finished Nightmare scenario and i 'm currently writing on a continaution, which is so much cool ! 😊
Also a fanfic crossover would be awesome! 🤩
I feel you can write an abusive parent/character and give them reasonable motives for how they got that way, without redeeming or excusing what they did.
If you want to redeem them, than have that character show regret and a need/want to make things up to the person they were abusing.
Gabriel never remorse or regret in the recent seasons for manipulatinh Adrien or taking advantage of others.
At least movie Gabriel shows that, which is why i liked movie Gabe's Redemption was actually good.
There's still work to be done, but i feel it could be a focus in later installments especially with Adrien as a main focus, instead of Marinette.
yesss exactly. like it's totally to possible to redeem gabriel and do it well, but uh... the way the show did it wasn't it
Season 5 as a whole was just disappointing a little bit it had potential to be better than avengers endgame tbh
MovieGabriel/Alt. World Gabriel> Show Gabriel
Still think Lila will somehow take advantage of this.
Movie Gabriel is 👌🏻👌🏻
Period‼️‼️‼️
I watched something where this plotline was similar but done far better
Similar thing an abusive manipulative parent type character "sacrifices" themselves while the two main characters who were the main characters were abused.
No this didn't mean this character wasn't redeemed in any way or looked at as a hero.
Yes the two main characters cry of course they do they hate the abusive character but also mixed feelings.
I would never cry in sadness for the abusive character but when I think about it I cry in anger towards this character because of the way they treat everyone particularly the two main characters but still a fantastic written character.
having adrien have mixed feelings about this would have been a good way to go!
Shadow weaver ?
@@kenesis454 yep
I was actually hoping Gabriel would be redeemable, but the way the show did it is just f*cked up!
I'm not sure I want to even get into the ridiculous Pancake scene as if you take the scene in either meaning and context both of them look 50% right and 50% wrong that isn't likely what they intended at all regardless if you take it as a conversation about Fashion & Pancakes or about what method each one wants to use to Control Adrien's every action.
This is especially bad on the back of Ladybug's behaviour towards Cat Noir in Season 4 where she is violent & domineering towards him. Gabriel is deadly to Cat Noir but Ladybug made Cat Noir Flinch away from her in anticipation of future violence she was seemingly going to enact upon him. Gabriel smashed Cat Noir into the sky after finding out who he was, and Ladybug attacked Cat Noir physically repeatedly too. So the show wants us to side with the physical abuser over the emotional abuser.
i hope she starts to treat him better. he deserves so much more
I’ve said this in another video here, but I’ll repeat myself: Gabriel’s Redemption in the Movie was better compared to the Show in my opinion cause there was a lot more emotions and it felt more personal.
Yeasss
Yes you right Gabriel is manipulative. But He’s didn’t force feed the son anything he could have like say I don’t like pancakes and i don’t wanna eat it.
Hi, may i ask for a video idea....what about finding all the plot holes in the show? Becs there are so many it's funny at this point......like i just found an interesting one recently....remember way back in season 1 with the egipt god episode.....yea well that dude supposedly had the power to bring his lover back to life(ofc that never happened) but isn't it a plot hole that Gabriel gaved someone the power to resurrect people....i mean his whole reason was to bring back his dead wife...soooo
lol I’m already working on it! Sadly videos like that take a little longer to put together
In the finale, I didn't like the fact that he was considered a hero and was not responsible for the wrongs of other Parisians.After all, what does this series teach that you can be bad because they they build a monument anyway?
Uh it’s so frustrating!
Only thing I consider a positive of his redemption is maybe they’ll give Chloe a redemption at some point
🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
I think that Gabriel also wished that Marinette wouldn't tell Adrien the truth based on his last words. Which I think means that there a sacrifice that someone else SHOULD do. I would like to see Marinette's view as she tries multiply times telling her boyfriend what really happened (even as Ladybug), but can't and don't know why.
Chloe fans : Fu Tomas Ass truck
😂😂😂
see...I'm torn about Gabe...the main issue is they just portraed him as bad...they were so worried that peope would symapthize with gabe at all that everysingle time gabe had nuance or real emotion they then made him act even more even to try to invalidate aspect...people tend to ignore it but honestly I feel like gabe was ALSO character assasinated pretty badly where they way they portayed it makes no freaking sense.
That said I actually thing there is a easy fix that have in the showthat could make things at least better...just have the show point out that gabe LITERALLY turned insane?
the point of the show is that when people feel hurt and wronged they can act out in ways to try to solve their problem themselves or get their hurt acknowledged...and that when your in the heat of negative emotions you can act out in ways that won't actually soleve your problem or are offputting....but that is someone acknowledged or finds the core of your issue you can get real help.
so thematically a redeemable gabriel actually WORKS. as the person they thought was a simple evil person was in fact someone hurt and despertae trying to solve their problem by themselves through a wrong method where he needed someone from the outside to help him.
like arguable his plan was to act like a villian and create a akuma victim to gain attention and force the ladybug and cat miraculous to be activated since he couldnt find it through other means despite how rich he was. he was inspired to do this due to history which showed ladybug and chat noir being activated to face problms through time. he gets the akuma victim's consent to give them powers. the won't remember the bad stuff they did which could minimize the trauma in theory and he made a point of showing there was a mastermind so people have less reason to blame his victim...his plan was to draw out the ring and earings to steal which then he could reverse all the damage with the ladybug power. and then combine it to make a wish...as it seemed the plan was for the mom to wake up since she was 'missing'. probably with the excuse she snuck away for a experimental treatment she didn't know would suceed...especially since they made a point of keeping her alive/she was in a coma due to the faulty peacock miraculous and they had no guardians anymore to turn to for help and a book they can't properly translate. what he was doing still isn't a okay thing to do...but honestly if its to save a loved one a plan to make a decoy villian to lure out something that has the power to reverse any of teh damage once its done and if you lose you know the damage will be reverse anyway as well doesn't take bending that many scrupals. We've seen mari make decions that seems sketch at first but work out in the end like taking down the eiffel tower ect ect because the plan would reverse damage. he's still not good but there is a big difference between choosing to do a crime that can't be reversed and doing one where you know the damage can be reversed for a fact. and since gabe can semi communicate with his akuma victims he has the illusion he is in control and that no one is in real danger.
He creates akumas by amplifying his OWN negative emotions to tap into someone else's negative emotions which is canonically not healthy. we saw from fu that using the peacock even when your feelinsg are only slightly out of wack and those feelings werent even meant to go into the creation...it still caused the sentibeing to go insane and swallow all the guardians up and chase him across the continent for decades. mari using her power for even slightly selfish reasons caused her power to immediately start powering down that time she made a record to seperate chloe and adrien dancing. we also know that miraculouses can affect you physically as nathalie and emilie were physically affected by it health wise. we saw mari get affected by tikki when tikki went of her eating rampage when she transformed with tikki like that. they made a point of not knowing teh side affects of if he akumatized himself which he did anyway during collector. and that he is using his miraculous in a way it wasn't made to be used in this manner which means there WILL be side affects.
just make a point of making is clear gabe genuinely DOES care(like how the bettermoth was like in the special) which would actually validate the times in the show he clearly DID show care like in collector when he genuinely apologized to adrien and made it clear the issue was with how gabe over reacted even when gabe didn't have to own up to it and how gabe was understanding and didn't shout at marinette when she returned the book. acknowledging it was brave of her to come forward and even answering her questions...and agreed not to tell adrien when she asked him not to tell adrien she took it.
and that the time he has actively been a dick was just due to him trying to cause negative emotion to get another chance to save his wife...not that he genuinely actually felt that way...like to nino or trying to break up adrien and mari i chat blanc. like it doesnt change its trashy but motive is important.
then by bringing up that he is literally becoming worse due to how he is using the miraculous. think about it. Gabe becomes more agressive, more fixated, makes weirdly dumb mistakes at times and struggles to think outside of the box JUST like how akuma victims get weirdly more agressive and simple minde where they think they are incontrol and acting normal but they struggle to make plans themselfs and can't really be reasoned with and tend to have volitile emotions,....and tend to do things that don't actualy make sense for their motive at times or something they'd never do if they were thinking clearly. gabe isn't a akuma but he keeps amplifying his negative emotions playing this villian role.....where he thinks he is in control but becaue of what he is doing he is actually twisting his own emotions.
that would make him being weirdly agressive and doing things that make no sense for his normal motive make more sense...his willingness to hit his son after finding out he is chat or use when its clear at other times he has some genuine care for adrien and worries about how adrien wold react if he found out about the truth. how his emotions seem more childish at times as the show went on. the times he went way cartoonishly evil like the nukes in newyork or the thanos snap in hongkong....
it would play into his huberious(which is that he THINKS he is incontrol of the situation and everything will go to plan)...not realizing that his actions have twisted him to the point his emotions have gotten more unstable....that would explain why he didnt think about the timetravel power to save the mom AND because he used the power to fixate on the cat and ladybug miraculous...it would explain why gabe snaps into villian mode even though we'd normally think his father side should take over...if its literally a side affect from using magic to force other victims to fixate on those miraculouses. and it would increase the tradgedy because he did try to give up but nathalie who genuinely wants the mom back as well encouraged him...with could stand for a metafor for what happens if a loved one enables bad behaviours of another loved one.
this idea makes even MORE sense because when gabe is ACTUALLY around adrien properly and given time to listen to adrien properly there IS a pattern of gabe softening sometimes and being a bit more reasonable...but thats only on slightly longer exposure when it has time to sink in as gabe's isolation is driving him away from a ancher to his sanity which is adrien. people tend to overlook this pattern since they make gabe act so goddamn AWFUL.
like it works both in how its easy to go down and slippery slope of doing bad things becuase we justify it to ourselves and gabe is usually hiden from seeing the damage he does and due to the fix it in the ladybug miracle has a easier time notrealizing people are really getting hurt. and the more gabe failes the more desperate he is becuase he thinks he is failing a loved one which just amplifies his grief and esperation more which makes him fixated more thinking he just has to try harder...but if they bring up it being a actual side affect from using the miraculous for the wrong reasons(at least the wrong way) affecting his emotions and mind...not to mention it creates a contrasting parallel to marinette.
Gabe was not chosen while marinette was. marinette i using hers properly in moderation while gabe is using his improperly. mari has traits picked by a guardian(or a guradian in training at least). marintee gets proper training while gabe was going in without a proper translation. marinette had enough mental fortitude she was able to find a way to wear all the miraculous and not go insane...but the way gabe found a work around....i'm just saying they literally said there are bad affects from using even just two even just as three at times where insanity is a literal threat.
why doesn't the show just bring that out as something literally affecting gabe. if gabe was just pretending to be a villian/getting into character with the tradgedy being he literally ends up making himself more actually like a villian...much like how many akuma victims can lose sight of exactly what had hurt them or why they acted the way they did at times under the influence of their power...taking it out on unrelated people.
that way they could keep the gabe has a redeemable aspect while ALSO explaining why he was getting worse and worse as a person and villian.
not to mention gabe actually has STRONG parallels to marinette that never really gets adressed. both are into fashion/creative types. both come from middle classish families. mari from a bakery while gabe came from a restruant that has special fries. mari like adrien who is rich while gabe loved emilie who is heavily implied to be old money. both mari and gabe tend to make elaborate plans and complicate things to get to their goals. both can be a bit negative and paranoid at times. both can get cocky and have trouble listing to others when they think they are right/things ar egoing well/think they have a good plan. both get tunnel vision when they have a goal and both struggles at times putting themselves in other people's shoes accurately...often due to their bias of having info the other person doesn't have and will justify actions in self interest at times not realizing they are putting the other persons feelings down(like mari with max with teh gaming thing or julieka at teh birthday party for a example for mari). both gabe and marinette care for adiren but are bad at communicating that care/just assume adrien understands enough of it. both gabe and mari can be extra harsh on themselves at times. both mari and gabe had a bad habit of trying to control how things go a bit too much when they get stressed but are also emotionally vulnerable and genuinely needs support even as the more they stress and tunnel vision the more they push people who's help they had accepted before away. heck even the idea that gabe feels he was pushed into this by neccesity to save the mom while mari was given this role but had to step up in it. and both gabe and mari tend to underestimate the affect they have on people at times.
like objectively I don't like how they handled the ending...with most people understandable disliking the most adrien not really being involved...but arguable it works is you focus on the parallels between mari and gabriel. how both were feeling more isolated as things went on even when things felt like it was going their way mostly and how gabe stopped getting or getting advice from nathalie while mari edspite having all that support struggled and started pushing away chat noir.
not to mention a point is that mari tends to be stubborn and judge quickly with things. a strength is her sense of justice and standing up for her view and not letttin the otehr get away with excuse which she learned from alya and how she dealt with chloe in the early seasons when mari saw clhoe as simply evil/bad and how she saw hawkmoth as just bad where she was firm on the no one using the powers(for a good reason but definitly has the vibe of me wondering if she could easily say the same if it was her loved one at risk). mari tends to struggle to look beneath teh surface at times which means its a bit harder to trick her when your bad.
but if she actually tries to realize that gabe is struggling and actually needs help and compassion and that its not simply him being evil.....this could be used as something she learned due to chat noir/adrien who wasn't as he seemed at first to her in the gum incident and who tends to be a bit more mature and patient and understands alot of bad people tend to act the way they due to to not knowing how to handle their emotions and that simple punishment might not always get the best results...if the show was going for her showing compassion due to realizing there is depth to people it would actually work pretty well if it connects a bit to how gabe and mari got along at the end of collector.
what I still don't get though is even for that part to work how they handle chloe makes no sense. mari learned to face justice can work through chloe...but mari was also clearly learning that their is nuance to people even those who seem all powerful/like they have everything and seem just mean...might actually be going through alot and genuinely have a shoddy foundation on how to do better. the whole asepct of chloe was mari was realizibg people have more nuance using chloe...but if they make chloe completely irredeemable it makes NO sense.
what I don't get even more is even if mari and friends don't know WE the audience knows that chloe was literally targetted. she was told her parents were targetted due to her DIRECTLY by the bad guys. they isolated her on a rooftop by literally cutting the wire to her signal so she couldn't communicate/call ladybug alot with a adult badguy who is mysterious. they played on how ladybug said chloe couldnt be the bee anymore so chloe wouldn't be targetted and that it would protect pollen by targetting chloe anyway so chloe would feel like she has no way to protect herself since ladybug took it away AND that LB failed to protect pollen as they had pollen and the other miraculouses after taking her parents hostages. and then digging into her insecurities DELIBERATLY. chloe only agreed to side with him after he released her parents and if she DIDN'T she not only had no way to know how he'd react but he had pollen and so at least by agreeing she go pollen and ther other miraculouses out of her hand. she messed up since the side heros were revealed which couldnt be taken back.
so CHloe thought she burnt her last bridge and she couldnt run away from what she did cuz her mom moved to paris and chloe isn;t good at properly articulating her feelings(especially after a master manipulator used LB as a scapegoat for her to blame which made chloe sound like it was her entitlment about being a hero when she HAD clearly accepted she wasn't going to be the bee in a previous episode and did it to free her hostaged parents who hawkmoth implied he might keep targetting chloe earlier). she clearly didn;t know how to cope as she was grumpy still in the newyork special....but there was a parallel that chloe was acting weirdly even worse that she did in earlier seasons/being meaner as a coping mechanism because its what she was familiar with. being good isnt something taht comes naturally to her and she tried so hard and failed and t hurt but chloe chose to cope by being mean/stop trying. and then suddenly a sister who had been with the mom all this time(something chloe had wanted for years) shows up who understands this nice thing and who everyone seems to like and then instead of having someone listen to her vent or feel like her felings were valid...adrien threatened to cut of the friendship he promised would last becuase she wasn't being nice so she cut it herself(like on one hand it was good adirne stood up to her and didn't enable chloe there but I also understood chloe clearly just wanted to have her feelings validated and adrien didn't properly make her feel listened to)...but chloe hnestly was relying on going through the motions of being a bully again since its what she was used to...which actually paralleled how BOTH mari and adrien relied on old habits to try to act like tings were fine and to cope...both mari and adrien relied on their old crushs to try to pretend they were normal...trying to use it as something unchanging and stable when everything else was changing which didnt actually help adress their problems...the contrast in the show acknowledges teh cover up when it comes to adrien and mari where it gets kindof adressed by someone else noticing it or the show makes the audience notice it at least even if no one else notices....but not with chloe.
the tradgic spiral that chloe needs help but didnt get it cuz no one had the context to communicat ewith her properly and chloe is bad at communicating doesnt get adressed even as something the audience knows when teh show tries to blatantly say chloe is iredeemable....
but chloe being irrdeemable makes no sense when mari has to learn people can be redeemed for her to sympathize or show any compassion toward gabe to make ANY freaking sense.
even is is they could help at least solve a chunk of gabe's issues by adressing gabe's behaviour was getting worse due to the miraculous affects or using too many or something or amplifying his own negative emotions that many times...and adressing the parallel to mari would make at least adrien not being there a bit better as him being a type of dark mirror to her...even more after seeing how good bettermoth was as a person...just point that was sort of gabe's original vibe to some degree along with his struggle to communicate his feelings since he was used to the disipline role while the mom handled more of the emotion stuff.
like the issue for me isn;t that gabe being redeemed couldn't work...my issue is if they ommit him literally going insane due to how he was using the miraculous entirely he just seems like a strait up abusive person with no real feelings and that them redeeming him makes no sense from how they set it up.
heck it would have even made a stronger parallel to collector becuase mari asked gabe to keep the secert she took the book from adrien which adrien was nderstanding and saw it was brave to come forward with something after things escalte when she could have stalled with how mari was understanding about gabe to some degree and agreed to keep it a secert like he had.
honestly I think a better quick end would be where mari is able to stop the wish but she offered him help from the gurdians who have experience and might have a way to save the mom and nathalie without the wish...pointing to the point of how gab;e tunnelvision and not asking for help assuming he wouldnt get it de to his actions blinded him to another option...and parallel how ladybug and chat stopp akumas who think they are doing a acton that would get them what they want in the end...but when ladybug and chat find their core issue they tend to find a alternate way to fix their issue with people actually knowing what the issue was.
though I actually heard a theroy that chloe was sent to rock bottom so now she could potential grow after losing everything...which is still a dick move on the shows part bit COULD work where maybe mari might realize there was something redeemable in chloe again later but that mari had been blind to it due to hawkmoth/gabe and not really realizing the lila context.
lowkey i kindof hope zoey turns out to be evil and actively tried to take chloe's place.
Ah yeah I get hat you mean. Like as soon as we found out why he was doing it, I did have a lot of sympathy for him. I always thought he had a good motivation but what they did with him this last season was just odd
And as you point out, as villains go, he isn’t that bad in terms of his Hawk Moth sheningnas. Akuma victims don’t seem to remember much and it all gets reapired, so while it’s still wrong, he isn’t all that bad
And as you also point out, there were multiple better ways to portray Gabriel. I don’t understand why they make a lot of the decisions they do. I really wish they had explored his character more. I love complex villains, especially one as you point out who is so similar to the lead character
While I don’t think that the ending doens’t work, like the pace and wriitng and structure of it is all fine, I’m more concerned with the wider implications of it and the child audience watching and what they will think, writing for children is tricky because they’re an easily influential audience
thank you for taking the time to write all of this out!
yeah its especially worrying because this show in particular is hard to read and what they show doesn't match what they say is happening or what lesson they say we should get from it. kids who take things completely at face value are liable to just take what they say as the truth and those who can read a little deeper will be confused because the 'lesson' doesn't quite match up with whats actually shown.
I honestly thought it was weird that the show was trying to act like a man trying to save his wife as completely unreasonable. its not even a 'oh he's trying to bring back the dead which is unnatural and unfair because why should only he bring back a loved one'. she was literally alive in a coma where the reason she was sick was due to the miraculous in the first place.
@@hazeclarke
I liked season 5 because it felt like the target audience was slightly older with the themes and stuff. Part of me really enjoyed it and part of me makes me so infuriated
lol totally get you!
my favorite part about Gabriel is his beautiful cataclysm mark
😂😂😂😂
I'm surprised that no one has Gabriel Agreste (or Tamoe) on a Top 10 Hated Animated/Cartoon Characters List yet...
To me, Gabriel crossed the Moral Event Horizon when he did what he did to the Kwamis in Season 5 & Adrien in the finale.
As someone who suffers from anxiety, what Gabriel did to Adrien in the finale was HECKING DISGUSTING & he totally did not deserve a redemption!
How Gabriel treats Nooroo in Sandboy is awful, & Cat Blanc & Ephemeral made us upset with what he did to his son, but S5 crossed the line for me 😡🤮.
Gabriel literally tried to start ww3 at one point, just to get what he wanted. He was completely unhinged and irredeemable. And I can't imagine how this will shake Adrien to his core if he learns the truth. That would hurt anyone's ability to trust.
omg exactly
Fr like why are we supposed to have sympathy for someone who almost murdered a whole entire city 💀💀💀 for earrings and a ring
Exactly!
Gabriel had the nerve to call Marinette a coward while he's a grown man who not only is hitting a woman but a 14-year-old girl.
🙃🙃🙃🙃
As much as I COMPLETELY agree with you on this, I don't think they are going to address it. I just don't think that MLB is going to paint Gabriel as a villain again or just not redeem him. I wish they would but I don't think they would do it as delicately as it needs to be, given the way season 5 ended. Does that make any sense?
yeah sadly. i just... i don't get it. why would they do this for nothing? but again, the show does that all the time
I never understod, why they say Gabriel was redeemed?
He wasn't. He was PRESENTED as a good person, yes, but so does some abusers. They never implayed it's good what he did with Adrien.
Yes, I agree it should have been adressed, but I feel they did not, because they had no time... And yeah,it sucks that's going to be only in S6...
Also, the difference is, Nathalie just mentioned the tapes, Marinette showed them
He was redeemed. They don’t need to say it for it to be true. Building a big statue of him and remembering him as a hero is a redemption. And if they didn’t have time to do it, then they shouldn’t have. While I’m sure it will be addressed next season, as I said in the video, I don’t think it’s worth the pain and harm it’s causing - as exhibited by the people in my comments who have been abused who had to watch that finale
@@hazeclarke well... I fully respect this oppinion, and see where you and these peaple coming from. And by no mean I want to de-valuate their (or your) pain in an expedience. I just suggest, he is more of a false hero, than redeemed. He didn't get the statue because what he did, but because Ladybug told them. Same with Adrien, she lied, because she wanted to save him from pain. So I feel he wasn't redeemed but rather lied about, in order to save his family from shame (specificly Adrien). I mean, he is dead, so can't be punished, but his family could be looked down because of him...
I agree, she might should have told Adrien specificly, creating a short of middle ground. But yeah, they didn't had time for that, and I agree with yout frustration, than it should have been handled with more care.
I hope I wasn't hartful with my comment, wich wasn't intendec to be so, but I'm sorry if I was
I'm sorry but people being mad about this is beyyyyond dumb LOL Miraculous has always been a show that has favored the concepts of redemption, love, friendship, and letting go. We this literally every damn episode, so of course Gabriel was always going to have some kind of cathartic ending where he finally accepts his reality.
And I emphasis cathartic ending and not redemption because it's NOT A REDEMPTION. Even if it was, keep crying about it.
Gabriel's "sacrifice" was nothing short of an allegory for suicide, and the people of Paris worshipping him with a statue afterwards is clearly making a commentary about our real world idols and how so many of them were probably shitty people who managed to get away with being shitty people and we need to look deeper into their past actions before we decide to build status of these people and worship them.
HOW people saw that and got "yeah the show is excusing him and paint him as a hero now" from it I have no idea but it's such a smooth brain take, sorry not sorry.
Nuance and critical thinking is a lost art
It’s certainly ironic of you to say that nuance and critical thinking is a lost art, when you yourself exhibit just that in your comment. While I agree what Gabriel does in re-creation is suicide, and that the show often looks at redemption and letting go, that doesn’t mean my view, and the view of plenty of others of the finale, is incorrect
To me, Gabriel gets away with what he has done, and not only that, but he gets a statue to commemorate him, which to me, was a redemption, and as someone who has been abused, was disgusting to see - and this view from other people in the comments who have sadly also been abused has been echoed
It’s entirely possible for Gabriel to have a cathartic ending - but to me, and many others, it does send the message that your abuser is a hero. I think there are multiple ways they could have changed him as a person and owned up to the abuse to have his ending be cathartic. But there isn’t. Instead, he asks for Adrien to remember him as a good dad. To me, that isn’t cathartic. It’s asking Adrien to love his abuser, and to me, that is disgusting
As I said at the start of my reply, you say that nuance and critical thinking is a lost art - yet you are unable to exhibit either of those yourself. While your view of the finale is certainly different to mine, it does not make my view or your view incorrect. And then you took that one step further and were rude. If someone disagrees with your opinion in the future, I would encourage you to exhibit those qualities of nuance and critical thinking and try to understand why someone thinks the way they do. Perhaps someone dislikes the way Gabriel was portrayed after the wish in Re-Creation was because something similar happened to them with their abuser - and if it’s such a sensitive topic, perhaps you should also try to be kinder