Fixing My "Ranking Martial Arts Tier List"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2021
- What's the Best Martial Arts Style? I Answered that Question in my last video, but I was wrong... (All Martial Arts Styles have a purpose. If you enjoy them, do them. This is based off of my opinion.)
In this episode of Tier List with Sensei, I rank (opinion) Jiu Jitsu, Lethwei, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Karate, Judo, Aikido, Capoeira, Kung Fu, Jeet Kune Do, and more!! I replace some of the opinions that I had in from my first video "RANKING Martial Arts Styles!" which you can find here
• RANKING Martial Arts S...
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Karate, Taekwondo, Muay Thai, Kung Fu, MMA, UFC, Sensei Seth, Kata, Kumite, Sparring, Fight, Boxing, Kick, Side Kick, Yoko Geri, Roundhouse Kick, Spinning Wheel Kick, Tricking, Bottlecap Challenge - กีฬา
Here’s the original, since I fixed it 100% now… lol th-cam.com/video/lwEMYHIglbs/w-d-xo.html
Sendei Seth have you tried Aikido? Maybe you should try and do a video about Aikido just like you did with Capoeira. If you do a video about doing Aikido try it with Lenny Sly The Rogue Warriors, aikido flow or Roy Dean. Roy Dean dose MMA and took Aikido 3 great Aikidoist. You can find them on TH-cam. Like one TH-cam video Roy Deans Message to Joe Rogan.
whats your opinion on Kudo (mix of kyokushin karate, judo and jiu jitsu (traditional or bjj depending on the school)? it's getting more and more popular in europe and south-america, looks very complete but kinda sport oriented in my opinion. not that thats good or bad. they also use a helmet head guard protection which is a standout of this discipline. means you can go ape monkey on someone or get destroyed and not look like a cauliflower on your 9am-5pm job the next day :)
Kudo is great. Aikido by itself is almost useless.
Sensei, how about a rank system of different styles of Kung Fu like Wing Chun, Sanda, Black Mantis, Tiger, Northern Shaolin, TaiChi, BaguaZhang, etc.
@@rocelderamos3013,
Sanda and Shuai Jiao are the only two CMA that's practical for combat.
As someone who did muay thai and now does bjj, I approve this message.
Cool, how many fights have you been in?
@Leon Russell do you not train for self defense or the "streetz"
@Leon Russell , Fo'DA STREETZ!!!
I love you
@@joshuawilliams1477 😂😂😂
As a Krav based guy I think "C" is completely fair. It can be a total toss up. Some schools are an A. Some are F.
Much the same with Systema. It's really about the instructor.
I feel like this is definitely the same with kajukembo
I have to agree with you 100% I was lucky to be in the school that toilet well was really into sparring and being in good shape and wearing your ass out so that when you get into a fight you can still do the things you're supposed to do even if you're freaked out
Systema is a complete rubbish.
Krav Maga can be almost anything is the problem. It depends a lot on the instructors background. If nothing else at least a good instructor will help your fitness and aggression which if you are fighting another not very well trained person is a lot.
My less educated guess would be if a random person picks a fight with someone who's a good wrestler or BJJ (and they aren't in a cramped place like a bar) they auto-lose the fight. You're gonna get manhandled in 2 seconds. Takedown defense is not innate, and once on the ground, you lose. I'd rank both at least A. If you are in a cramped space, boxing or muai thai is probably going to win. The only S tier one is fire bending though 🔥
I was playing with my brother the other day and just went to fake a takedown and took him down on accident. 😂
Firebending. 😁😁😂😂🤣🤣😭😭
my uneducated guess is that it's innate if you were a naughty kid and had a twin, and you wrestled before you learned to walk proberly lol
@@belalabusultan5911 that was my twin actually 😆 and we have always wrestled but honestly you learn nothing compared to actual wrestling or bjj. It's really not innate in anyone it has to be learned. You can have good balance, athleticism, etc, that help but that's about it.
Ive been doing bjj for 4 years.
@@psyience3213
to be honest ... I am not sure how serious/sarcastic I was in my comment lol
The only S-tier: Gun-Fu
iunno i think ameridote easily gives gun fu a run for it's money, but only up close... master kens techniques are the weapons of the gods
@@FUBARGunpla Always restomp the groin.
There's another S-tier: running away.
@@_Dingu I disagree solely because: If you don't think you can beat someone in a fight, what makes you think you can outrun them?
@@Featherinmycap I'd say because there's a higher percentage of the population that are competent at running than at a martial art.
Kung Fu is a bit of a weird case, since you run into either complete badasses, couch potatoes who think they can shoot invisible Kamehameha waves at people, or something in between those extremes, and it's not very consistent with what you're going to get, you just kinda walk in hoping you've stumbled across the winning lottery numbers
Ub
So c tier
So true, I've met absolute demons and pure fake silly nonsense in the same room at some of the gyms I went to !
I went to 3 differents schools of the same Kungfu style and got those exact 3 categories
The first one was couch potatoes
The second wasn't consistent
The third one has teachers with high level in other martial arts that mixed their knowledge with this style of kungfu and focused on sparring and self defense
I stuck with the 3rd
@@yopomdpin6285 Damn, even when Kung Fu is good it’s just when you mix it with smith else…
Of course you were wrong, Seth!
Ya left out Mexed Martial Arts!
MMA can be good or bad
@@feoded4823 you...you didn't get the joke...
ok then
It's number wan
MMA is S tier
Oddly enough, the best articulation of how to evaluate a martial art that I have ever heard came from a non-martial arts youtuber named Thoughty2 from a video discussing fake martial arts. And it's beautifully simple:
"Does it consistently perform against a completely uncooperative, fully-resisting, aggressive opponent?".
But the thing is, that only measures the CURRENT state of the art.
@@peterwang5660 that doesn’t mean anything
Then capoeria should be S tier
@@keymuandreabdallah7131 against a hyper aggressive opponent? Yeah no.
@@AlexDestroyerOfEarth a hyper aggressive opponent? As if capoeria isn't aggressive itself. Capoeria works because of its ability to go against an opponent from any direction. There are different types of capoeria some for tourists & shows & there's the lethal one. All I know is that I went up against some karate, taekwando & BJJ people & they couldn't handle it.
Capoeira: "Its a game"
Capoeira Angola: You are a game to us.
Africans make jokes about brazil capoeira
ROFL in 10-30 minute games/rodas because the guy with the Gunga (berimbau) is too impressed with the game to stop the two of you 😭😭😭
Judo is B but Jiu jitsu is A.
Shintaro gotta throw your ass around some more.
It’s facts tho
I took it with a pinch of salt, when he put it next to Boxing I thought he's learning at least. I wonder if he realises the advantages of cross training in hyper focused arts as he puts it? Cause to be honest I fear people that cross train Boxing/wrestling Boxing/judo than say a BJJ/JJ blackbelt.
@@TheOriginalJAX i just wonder if he knows that Judo has the same ground work as BJJ without the leg submissions 🤔
@@JRF1004 AShi-garami/sangaku come to mind and that's judo. (I would argue it's the same sort of ground work as BJJ but not identical) Admittedly i don't even know if your allowed to use those submissions in "modern Olympic judo" anymore. got rear chokes and strangles too Hadaka-Jime and Ushiro-Jime are my personal favourites lol.
@@JRF1004 Judo has leg submissions.
Judo has literally all the technique that BJJ has. The difference is focus and training methods
In my opinion i think judo should be A tier because the black belts are also competent on the ground and submissions. A judo black belt is equivalent to a BJJ blue belt on the ground while also being a master of takedowns.
It takes a while to learn though. Certainly the steepest learning curve. Judo is freaking hard.
I'd agree with this after rolling with a fair amount of judo black belts. The average black belt is a blue belt on the ground but I've seen high level competitors hang with brown belts. The average judo fighter after a couple years has a way higher chance of taking somebody down than the average bjj guy (duh) and can destroy most average people on the ground.
Juijitsu is literally pointless if you can't get the other guy to the ground. Early mma is full of examples of bjj fighters who got dropped by a wrestler who kept them on their feet.
Judo is AT LEAST A tier.
Depends on the Judo school- some black belts are closer to purple in BJJ while others are closer to white. As a BJJ guy, I’d put Judo in the same tier as BJJ.
@@Tamales21 Well as a judoka myself BJJ has been the 2nd most dominant martial art in MMA after wrestling and it is the most advanced ground fighting and submission system and 6 out of the 11 current UFC champions are BJJ black belts, 2 are brown belts and 1 is a purple belt so to say its pointless is wrong, it is absolutely essential for MMA.
In terms of real fighting/street defense Judo is definetly A tier and is the best martial art followed by BJJ and then Muay thai.
And early MMA is actually a bigger example of wrestler getting submitted by BJJ guys :
-Royce gracie submitted 50lbs+ heavier Ken Shamrock and Dan severn.
-Nogueira submitted Mark Coleman and Dan Henderson.
-Fabricio Werdum submitted Cain Valesquez.
-Demian Maia submitted Ben Askren and Chael Sonnen.
-Frank Mir submitted Brock Lesnar.
-Rickson Gracie submitted Masaktsu Funaki, Nobuhiko Takada ×2 and Koichiro Kimura.
-Anderson Silva submitted Chael Sonnen and Dan Henderson.
-BJ Penn submitted Matt Hughes and Takanori Gomi.
-Charles Oliveira submitted Kevin Lee.
-Rafael Dos Anjos submitted Kevin Lee.
-Deivison Figueiredo submitted Alex Perez.
-Ronaldo Souza submitted Tom Boetsch.
-Nate Diaz submitted Takanori Gomi and Jim Miller...
As someone who does taekwondo on a high level i can agree with ur opinion on the martial art in the U.S.
But taekwondo in other countries is way better bcs of the lack of mcdojos and how they use it in different ways like in the army or pro taekwondo thats full contact.
I once saw 7 years old Black belt here in br... At tkd
I was lucky enough to have an awesome tkd instructor from Korea when i was a kid here in the US
I practice taekwondo and agree with you. Here in Norway it is all serious buisness
My TKD gym is amazing! Sometimes when we have low attendance the instructor will say screw it let’s do a BJJ lesson or boxing or even bo staff once!
They also tend to do other martial arts in conjunction with taekwondo…I think the main ones I saw in Korea was taekwondo with boxing, judo, and hapkido…
Could you do a tier list of all the different types of kickboxing; like Muay Thai, sanda, Dutch kickboxing, etc.I Really enjoy all your tier list videos.
Lethwei, Muay Thai, Dutch kickboxe, on this order. US kickboxe is S tier as it stands looking more like tkd by the day.
@@cutdepiefails6596 u do know S tier is his highest tier, right?
@@JaKommenterar ameridote.... sure my lad, ameridote is the best martial art ever. Un-killable.
@@cutdepiefails6596 No, read again, watch the video again and stop embarrassing yourself. Sensei Seth used the S tier label to mean the highest level, above A, like a superlevel. You seem to think S tier is the name for the lowest tier Sense used.
@@cutdepiefails6596 Or if I misunderstood you and you weren’t giving me a sarcastic response then I apologise
I think Judo should be ranked A. Here's why.
Good judo Schools teach very good Ne waza (ground) and Tachi Waza (standing). It's a more complete grappling art than BJJ. BJJ fighters in my experience are like a fish out of water standing and always almost immidiately pull guard.
Wrestling isn't also as complete as Judo. Judo throws also are also more energy efficient (older people can learn them) and most of their throws keeps you standing and also more versatile.
A Judo black belt with a balanced training system will tap a BJJ purple belt out. A Judoka who has mastered kosen Judo will give even a BJJ black belt problems. It's mostly a toss up at that point.
Judo also does well with striking. Here me out. There's something called 1, 2, 3.
1 represents a safe zone for you and your opponent. 2 represents a danger zone for both of you. 3 represents a safe zone for just you.
1 is you standing in a safe zone where your opponent can't strike you, you can't also attack in that zone. 2 is when you're both in range and 3 is when you are literally on the body of your opponent as though you want to grapple.
Your opponent can't really strike you in this position so your job is to move from 1 to 3 as quickly as possible. Judokas are very good at this.
In this position, you can throw the striker and submit or pin him on ground.
The only form of striking that can be a threat to a judoka in 3 is Muay Thai cos they can trip you if you're not careful and they are also dangerous in the clinch.
How is Wrestling not as complete as judo?
@@joshuakang4507 I’m really ignorant on wrestling, but if I could take a guess I think it’s because most wrestling styles don’t have much submissions or at all? (Feel free to correct me).
Another guess is because in Judo, BJJ and Sambo they have loose clothing so you could use no-gi techniques and gi techniques.
For the interested I believe the OP is talking about Kosen Judo.
@@Bunndog That's pretty much it. Wrestling is excellent at dominating from the top and maintaining control but they don't have submissions to finish people off.
For some perspective, I did years of judo before 1 year of high-school wrestling. Here was my experience-
My takedowns and take down defense were superb. In my matches, I literally can’t remember getting one take down scored on me. I would absolutely slam these wrestlers with hip throws (accidentally concussed a guy on my team with one and he was in a weight class above me) and I would just hear the air go out of em.
However, I got absolutely trashed once we were on the ground and lost EVERY MATCH. Part of this was, yes, the rule set didn’t let me sit in the guard without losing, but I also was just gassed on the ground. If judo is hyper focused, wrestling is hyper hyper focused and even with my knowledge of chokes and shit, I would be scared of tangling with a wrestler on the ground. Maybe Bjj is the same way.
But I don’t think you can beat a judoka for take downs. The balance and weight manipulation is unreal.
@@Ratstick58 I did a few years of Judo myself but I got my ass handed to me by, of all styles, a tai chi guy. Granted we were doing no-gi, and generally going by tai chi rules (no ground work) but it was scary.
Taekwondo kicks are levels over Karate or Kung fu kicks. When starting mma I went in with a tkw background that I did for 6 years when I was a kid. I could just dimantle guys mixing it with tkw kicks
Tkd for legs bjj for ground and boxing for hands. The best combo of 3 mma styles you can learn in my opinion.
@@MrYannieck fax
Hit or miss.WTF TKD maybe, ITF hello no. ITF came from shotokan karate.
El taekwondo tiene la patada más fuerte
I believe the TKD rank is based basically on the high numbers of bad dojos you can find and also on the competitive side of it, which is not very good in my opinion since the start of wireless point system.
I hate how kung fu is at d tier, but I understand too. For every Qilala, choy lee fut kick boxer each and Leitai fighter, there are thousands of non-sparring dillusional fighters who think they are too deadly to spar, people who put too much emphasis of taolu and some real dated, questionable stuff.
(This doesn't apply to people deliberately learn for taolu, health or sport, those people are cool)
I agree, I love Kung fu but finding a good practitioner is so rare nowadays.
Yeah and I think there are a lot of excellent kung fu practitioners who have no interest in fighting.
I appreciate that you spoke about both ITF and WT Taekwondo kind of differently! It’s a shame ITF isn’t as prevalent where you are as I probably see more ITF schools around than WT where I am… would love to see you try out some ITF sparring and drills/techniques! Definitely 2 different worlds.
Really feel judo and wrestling are A tier. Specifically because whenever a judoka or wreslter are in a street fight or mma it’s very hard to bet against them. A good high school wrestler can likely beat a grown man that doesn’t know how to fight despite the strength and age disadvantage
30% guideline, and oh boy is it a joy to watch
Ya, Judo is Good IMO but best utilized with Kung fu or even muythai
You make a good point but a good striker can get a ko before the wrestler gets close(askren vs mascidal). Even more if they train muay thai where they train in takedown defense and strikes from the clinch. Now I know not every striker is as good as Masvidal, but not every wrestler is as good as Askren either.
Tbh, to get to a level where you can effectively use judo in a fight, it will take a longer training time than wrestling. Learning the mechanics and getting footwork accuracy takes longer, IMO, and accuracy of footwork is more important in judo in my experience. Eventually, judo is really effective, as much as wrestling, but has a steeper learning curve.
@@brucehammadalee3835 yes thats a good example but thats not the norm. Think conor and khabib, i feel the grappler normally dominates the fight. Or in adesanya’s case the elite striker with elite takedown defense
Great update. Definitely enjoyed this one more than the previous one.
I never trained JKD, but I read Lee's Dao of JKD and it really helped me solidify some concepts of striking that had never been explained to me. It was like it taught me to give names to a lot of things I had already learned in my martial arts journey.
That’s nice to hear, most people just shit on it now because anything Chinese and martial doesn’t really have the best rep.
Yeah it was great how it explained about the nuances of timing, of breaking your beat to trick the oponent and of drawing and feinting. In that book, through his academic skill, he was able to break down verbally a lot of the stuff that makes stand up so much more than just punching and kicking. It's a read that I always suggest to other martial artists. Reminds me of Mr. Danaher talking about grappling nowadays. Both of them have the philosophy background too.
Your assessment of Krav Maga is pretty accurate. If you’re a Kravist I would highly recommend that you cross train in a martial art that spars regularly.
They do get you physically fight ready
But a system unfortunately watered-down. I sure their guys real fighters from this system they box use mauy thai ..but you really have to find the right school and instructor. But very dangerous gun defense techniques and the bladed weapon training is awful. But the real dudes are bad ass.
Quick correction on tge history of Capoeira!
Is not that it became a dance. It is that the training was made to look like a dance so they could train self defence in a concealed way. By "they", I mean slaves or newly released slaves in urban centers.
Capoeira is historically the martial arr of the oppressed.
The problem is that Seth doesn’t take time to actually learn anything about history of a art . For that he is never going to have a good opinion on the Capoeira itself .
I literally have a video and took a lesson from a capoeirista where I asked him these questions
@@SenseiSeth you have no ideal of what capoeira is. We have hand strikes, knees, take downs, grappling, elbows and head butts. The guy you trained with is nice but you need to search out Capoeiristas that know the combat aspect of Capoeira.
Actually it wasn't really disguised as a dance because its so obvious that we're actually practicing martial arts. However, the toque of the berimbau and instruments would alert capoeiristas if overseers or police were coming, giving them a chance to run away before being caught. Sometimes they would play samba de roda music, where enslaved people would literally start samba dancing instead of doing capoeira. Another toque would incorporate clicks that sounded like hoofbeats, letting capoeiristas know that overseers on horses were coming, and to leave
Agreed on JKD, since many (most) schools only teach how Bruce fought, when it's not supposed to be that way at all. JKD is a concept and not a martial art. Use what's best for you. Bruce specifically learned what was best for him (wing chun, boxing, fencing, grappling, eskrima), it doesn't mean everyone else has to copy him.
Also, do more eskrima videos and maybe put it in the tier list ( there are better and worse styles of that too, so choose carefully)
Yes, I really want to learn more about eskrima. I keep wondering whether I should look for eskrima or boxing gyms.
@@jonatanlj747 I would do boxing first to get some basic understanding of fighting, and after some time start eskrima as an extension of that. From my experience, eskrima is much better when you've already trained boxing before and it's much easier to understand.
@@nikolab.4065 Okay, I'll take it from you. Thanks so much man.
Eskrima is straight S tier
Honestly, I feel like you give BJJ too much credit. I practice near daily, and I think it's a lot closer to the hyper focus martial arts like wrestling, boxing, and judo.
Not really though because distance manages strikes.
@@psyience3213 but the vast majority of bjj schools do not train any stand up at all. And if they do, they rarely train how to deal with someone hitting you on your way in. That makes it even less practical than wrestling in a lot of cases.
Also "no slams" (+no stomps obviously) rule may make quite a few practitioners way to overconfident about how safe the ground level really is.
There is a difference between Gracie and Sport-BJJ, isn`t it?
@@NameNr123 most schools that don't practice for sport aren't pressure testing. The sport elevates the practice.
Really pleased that you're distinguishing ITF and WTF taekwondo! Agree that the majority of people only see WTF which dilutes out the bits of ITF that make taekwondo a martial art rather than a sport.
It would be great to see you learn more about ITF style TKD. I think you would see that ITF style is much more practical and deserves to be separated when mentioned like this. ITF was created for self defense and military use and is HEAVILY based on karate while World Taekwondo was created as an Olympic sport. 🙏 🥋
I agree! I train in ITF TKD, and I laugh at some of the World Taekwondo stuff. It is definitely more of a sport from what I know. ITF TKD has combat, has sparring, takedowns, sweeps, blocks, punches, etc, and even has similarities to judo and karate. The two styles of TKD are quite different. I would almost compare them to the differences between karate and the bujinkan (might be spelled wrong- go watch McDojo Life!). There are distinct styles of karate, some of which are stupid, and some of which are great. TKD similar.
Clearly the art that has groin kicks, throat strikes, and eye gouging should be a top tier. The only art better is Ameridote because of the hurticane and groin restomp.
Bas Rutten comes to mind
Traditional Ju-Jitsu then. I learned a variety of eye and throat strikes for my black belt.
Scope metaphor is genius - Sensei Seth nails it again :)
I agree whole heartedly agree with your assessment of Kung fu. I teach a specific style, and I agree that using it to hone how to fight is the right way. The scope metaphor is perfect
If only there were a way for us to blend many of the most effective techniques from all of these wonderful martial arts… a mixed martial art if you will. 😂
th-cam.com/video/3CGMWlXosp4/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=EnterTheDojoShow
Mma? Like ufc?
yeah, Bruce Lee already did it, but ppl think its bs
I don't, though
Good update as a critic of the last great to see
Thank you for acknowledging the difference between ITF and WT.
"Olympic Karate but for Kata at this point"
You wound me, sir... That being said you're not 100% wrong.
One more video and Judo will finally be at the right place. The A tier
Hahaha true
What would be super handy is if someone had created a competition where you were allowed to use different styles.
No doubt for the first few tournaments you would see style vs style matches pitting one martial art against another, and analysts could create lists like this based on competitive results.
And then perhaps over time athletes and coaches would experiment with different combinations of styles, and we might even discover that certain combinations of styles allow practitioners to beat some of the dominant styles of the first tournaments.
I love the scope analogy. Great video!
Loved the video, only thing I'd change is I'd bump TKD up one
This is a great tier list! That was pretty spot on, based on my own experience !
I've never heard of GOOD Krav Maga, but I'll trust you that there are good places with great knowledge, instead of "knife-aikido". Also, Sanda is awesome, but I can see why you ranked Kung Fu lower based on the average dojos.
I wanna do Sanda, combined with Shaolin Kung Fu & Tai Chi
Just glad to hear you saying Capoeira correctly now and for moving it up. List seems pretty legit.
Props to the improved sound quality compared to the older one
Maybe do a breakdown of different “Kung fu” styles next time!!!
6:50 could you do a video explaining the differences between Japanese and Brazilian jiu jitsu? I did Japanese for a few years and literally just started bjj last week
What differences have you noticed?
@@SenseiSeth one is in south America and one is in Asia?
I mean.. yea that’s true haha
saying Japanese jiu jitsu is like saying American Hollywood lol
what ryu did you practice? jujutsu styles favors throws, takedowns and stand-up submissions. since most styles were suited for the battlefield, the samurai would always try to end up on top and finish with a final blow using a tanto
I like that you get specific on what the ranking is for. For this particular outcome, this style is this. Subjective or not, given that context, great arguments are presented.
It all goes back to your brutal honesty rating for what the martial art is providing to you vs what you expect it to.
Want to be good at fighting, try these. Want to learn flow and self mastery, these could be for you. Want to get fit, here's a variety.
Is one better than the other comparing all of them? Depends on your expectations and needs from your art matching why you're doing it.
Good stuff my man, good stuff.
keep doing what you do ... great channel and a lot of insight and fun for a white belt like my self .... big thx
Tier lists are pure subjective so getting mad over it is like getting mad at a person that prefers vanilla ice cream over pur deliciousness chocolate ice cream.
You shouldn't care about that kind of ppl
Haha true that
I am very vanilla because offended ice cream is the best
Stracciatella ice cream >> vanilla & chocolate ice cream
A true Martial Artist will lick on a tasteless block of ice before breaking it with his fist or elbow!
Preference on the taste of different ice creams is subjective. You can know what martial arts are better for fighting because it’s objective.
Nice list! 👍
What about FMA? Where would you place it? B? C? It can be pretty effective and fairly practical to learn. The same drills and techniques have applications accross both empty hands and weapons training.
And the kicks are lower which is probably a bit more realistic in a fight.
using stick: S tier
honestly it doesn’t take nearly as much to learn how to be dangerous with a stick
I train muay thai coming from a wrestling background. I can see what you mean with the whole, adding to what you know. The clinch work became just a matter of adding knees and elbows where as the moving the fighter and adding trips I've already done. Good vid man 🙏🏽
I love how you described it as a gun with accessories. I've heard Mike say similar so many times. X is helpful, IF you already know how to grapple or land a strike or whatever the case may be. That's a really good way to think about any martial art you study or EDC you have.
It's always sad to see low opinions of taekwondo. I'm a third degree, and an instructor. I know that the belt system is badly inflated, so maybe I have the experience of a brown belt or a first degree in other styles (8 years approximately). But as a student of a small style with very little in common with ITF and Olympic sport TKD I have learned to accept that not all TKD is good TKD. It's the contrary in fact. I suppose that our school treats striking more like kick boxing.
To my fellow TKD kickers, please keep your damn hands up.
Have you/ can you make a video/ series about " what style is best for you/ bodytype/ goals ect"
Idk if that would be a video you would want to make
Thats a super cool idea
You could do a tier list of the kifferent kung fu styles and find different sources to pull from that include sparring, conditioning, variety of techniques (ie. Ground fighting, striking etc.) and self-defense application videos.
An interesting 3rd follow up to this would be - which two of these martial arts mixed together becomes S tier? E.g. does the combo of BJJ + Muay Thai adequately cover each others weaknesses to be an S tier combo?
Would be very useful as I think many peoples eyes are now open about the downsides of each martial art and are interested in learning a couple instead of just one. More and more advice points people to do a striking or grappling art for at least a few months before focusing on the opposite.
I got lucky with the place where I did TKD for a couple years. They taught boxing, parrying, open palm strikes, falling, basic grappling (couple wristlocks). And there was quite a bit of sparring. Emphasis was 50% arms 50% legs. Totally agree with you about TKD though, almost everything i've seen since has been rubbish.
Come on Seth, you know deep inside that Judo belongs in the 'A' tier :) Great videos, very much enjoy your work.
JKD is severely overrated cause of Bruce Lee, he’s a legend and an icon but people believing he can beat mike Tyson and other massive fighters is insane. So many of his feats were exaggerated.
I don't even think JKD has ever compete in MMA, at least Judo and Karate has proven their style to be effective in MMA.
It's ridiculous, and it's always people that haven't competed themselves. It's the best indication that someone does not know how to fight: "oh Bruce Lee would have defeated this or that heavyweight" No he wouldn't have. It's sad but it's true, even a GOAT contender like Demetrious Johnson would lose against an average mid level UFC light heavyweight, and would lose badly.
Jkd was not Bruce Lee but a idea based on a system of growth and adding to its ever evolving idea to add on different systems that work together jkd probably first to add bjj kali western boxing useful parts of silat. Wingchun and tactical firearm use in some school. Don't think it's stopped at Bruce Lee it was a brilliant idea by a man who was way ahead of his time a system that's not a system but a mind set .
What about *Jarate* ?
It's a Australian martial art developed by Saxon Hale for snipers who may find themselves in close combat and unable to use their gun as they carry big unwieldy rifles.
It doesn't rely on athletic flashy moves as it's based on the theory that a Jarate exponent will have been in a sniping position for hours and hours on end, so they won't have done a warm up just before the fight.
It's very ruthless, has extreme shock value for the target, and anyone who's faced a Jarate exponent _remembers the experience_ - if they survive.
Would love to see a "kickboxing" tier list. American, Japanese, lethwei, muay thai, savate, etc
"making it to your list was immature but I haven't grown." I laughed at loud at this. Great video.
I believe TKD is also a hyper focused martial art, ITF or WTF. And from my experience in my WTF gym we do practice boxing and punch defense (to the face) in sparring. I don’t know if other gyms will do that but may be important for tier list V3 which 100% will maybe probably happen
Tier list videos always entertaining
I like more this list!
good work
Here in the UK Karate is deffo D tier
Too many bullshit schools, especially in the West Midlands where I live
On the basis that sensei Seth has ranked , wud it not depend on which karate school you walk in to
It's pretty much the same situation in India
As you mentioned, your list will vary depending what it is you are training for. If it's for Self-Defense, or a Competitive Sport, or just to get in Shape, your list will obviously differ. Concerning TKD, ITF fighting is definitely more complete than WT simply because ITF has hands, WT doesn't, they are practically armless. No pun intended. 😅
I loved this video because it gives a really good criteria for why he chose things
While the placements this time are pretty sound, I think it should be recognized that each rank has a certain "margin of error" based upon school, coach, time invested, personal characteristics, etc.
It's funny; when I trained at a JKD school (Roy Harris), we basically just did MMA training with Muay Thai, BJJ, Boxing, Fillipino Kali, and lots of sparring with people from inside and from outside the gym, because that's what seemed to work best for most people. We'd always have guest teachers too from other disciplines. My teacher though broke away from the other JKD schools (like Dan Inosanto or Progressive Fighting Systems) because they just wanted everyone to teach the same outdated "JKD Concepts" with Wing Chun techniques that never work, despite Bruce Lee always preaching to evolve and shed what is useless. SO even though my heart wants JKD to be higher on the list, most schools you walk into unfortunately are teaching McDojo style JKD that won't be very effective in a street fight.
Damn that's a gem
If JKD has out dated concepts than Karate and everything else does to. They’ve been around for a long time.
If we’re ranking styles then why are you mentioning fake JKD or Mcdojo which i assume its a watered down JKD and not the real deal. I can very much say the same thing with Kick Boxing focused on losing weight classes
I feel so bad for the kids doing aikido watching these videos
I do judo and I think most people don’t realise judo does a ton of groundwork and submissions along with throws. I agree with all the rankings.
nah most judo players aren't good at ground bcs schools arent teaching ground that much instead they teach standing position
@@peshokelemeto2256 most schools teach a decent amount of newaza. Even sport schools do it, as it’s a component for the game as well.
Schools I’ve gone to have been 70/30 throws to ground work, or even 60/40.
They might not be as refined as BJJ or wrestling, but it’s certainly there, and very usable in most situations.
I've been reading this manwha called Viral Hit, and ever since I've been kinda obsessed with martial arts. I definitely wanna learn one in the future. One being striking based and the other being grappling based. Best of both worlds.
Love your vids man
Appreciate you!
I was literally about to rewatch you’re old list, talk about coincidence
I looked up Ameridote (because I forgot) and agree with it's rating.
And I enjoy your content. It's great. Thank you 🙏
My father has always said it's not the martial art but the man practicing it and his dedication
That being said, he is a strong believer in everyone having at least 1 year experience of boxing, he was a traditional Go Ju Ryu practitioner but didn't develop his striking until boxing because he always lost to boxers in sparring
It took me 7 years to get my blackbelt in ITF taekwondo in my old school. we were able to get our first yellow belt at the age of 9 and our black belt at 16 + I was always way better than other taekwondo students at turnaments thats why i got into kickboxing (i think it really depends on the school ur visiting for example the schools in for example germany are better than the ones in america bc of all the mc dojos
True, there are lot's of mc dojos, but I was lucky. Where I live we got a direct student of the creator of TKD as a teacher.
Did my first "bah jay jay" as master ken calls it today. I was bent like a fucking pretzel
lol. on my first day of bjj, i was strangled twice then shoulder locked once. really intense
@@snatchX626 bro when I started class I thought someone would come and show me tye basics.
The coach just told me to do what everyone else was doing.
When everyone was doing their drills, shoulder rolls, front, back and sideways, I was flopping around like a fish. So they showed me how it was done, but said unless I don't do it I won't get better.
Great video Sensei! 👊
Soooo spot on in my opinion. Not much match the intensity of sparring or drilling Wich is what will make sure you react fast enough in a real situation.
I do tkd wtf and i think that if taught right is more effective then karate. Where i go we learn grappling, takedowns, strikes, self defense, and competitive tkd. But love the vid
How can wrestling be a B tier when it’s so effective in mma
because we're talkin bout average person after attending average US wrestling school not about ufc
@@pamuk4339 maybe it's just my state but tbh for the most part I've only seen great wrestlers in high school
As someone who has trained gong fu for over a decade your assessment is correct. Most people I've trained with are dismal fighters and actually not there for that. The main problem students have with gong fu, assuming you have a half decent lineage to begin with (which TOTALLY isn't guaranteed), is that it's incredibly comprehensive. So you run the risk of being overwhelmed and not really being good at anything in a practical sense.
I've spent a lot of time fighting boxers, kickboxers, karate guys and muay thai. To force me to zero in on the practicalities of inflicting damage and avoiding damage. And to be honest I have to admit that I've barely scratched a quarter of what my style (Lau Gar) has the potential to teach me. Too many students get told that a particular movement can be used as a lock or a throw, but then never go on to train it to the point that it's useable.
This is depressing… I want to learn Kung Fu, I want to prove that it works, because my ancestors did not just fucking dance and call it fighting, we dance now because guns exist and every damn government for hundreds of years wants to suppress martial arts.
But Kung fu is either a joke for people or… like, from your experience it seems kung fu is a waste of time, and if it does work, then what it can teach you can be more reliably taught by the established martial arts and combat sports.
@@peterwang5660 I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression Peter Wang. I assure you if you have a good style it definitely works. So steps:
1. Find a legit good style, teacher and group. I train in the UK so I can't recommend for the US, but look for competition success and straightforward understanding of how combat works. i.e. you can only ever block on the inside or outside of a punch. There may be a lot of different hand shapes, but why? If the instructor can't explain you to why with down to earth reasoning based on body mechanics then avoid it.
2. Learn slowly with lots of sparring and competition. If you want to learn a lot, you have to train a lot. The fancier stuff comes later when you actually understand why it's there.
3. A lot of early stuff in gong fu is about body conditioning, so genuine toughness takes time and should be present in the mature students in the class and the instructor.
4. Fight different styles, basically fight anyone you can (you know in class... lol) and if there seems to be a limit to your style, or something it doesn't have look through the forms again. Gong Fu forms are like music theory, it's not just one step going from form -> application. Same as the circle of fifths doesn't always get you Kind of Blue. You have to spend time taking the style apart and then drilling the stuff in combat. We called it pressure testing.
Okay so not really steps lol, more advice but hope that helps. Gong fu can be really strong, the group I trained with won loads of tournaments and had tons of titles between the top fighters. And most of us had to use it on the streets as well and it worked very effectively every time.
Ranking is just a fun thought exercise... that's all it is. Keep doing the rankings!
But Taekwondo have power kicks that can knockout a person ༎ຶ‿༎ຶ
But lack adequate punching techniques or takedown defense and I see most practitioners break under pressure when fighting aggressive styles.
Yes if they land .
@@chancethewrapper3557 tiene técnica de puños y derribos
Efectivamente
en efecto
I agree with the TKD, I am in ITF but i get where you are coming from.
Same. I've done taekwondo my whole life. I've been in schools that produce great fighters and schools that produce tired kids and they're all fine in their own way, but if you're taking the average, this is super fair.
I'd love to see a more detailed list that looks as effectiveness *assuming a high quality fighting school*. I think that would have juice.
Son lo mismo
I never seen the first list but this list seems pretty accurate!
This is one of the most accurate on youtube. The list is fantastic, I, and this is only my personal list, would change either BJJ to B tier or move Judo and Wrestling up to A tier. I (personally) don't think any of those grappling arts are superior in any way to another. Wrestling has the best positioning, BJJ excels at both submissions, Judo is both of them, but the average judoka is usually good at one or the other, only the best are good at both
After watching MMA and training various martial arts over about 2 decades.. I think basically every martial art on this list has techniques that legitimately work. Some more than others.. but they all have at least something useful.
I liked the video.
One thing I would have changed here (and I say this as a longtime practitioner of hard arts, Krav and Aikido) is bump aikido up to B - for the exact same reasons you bumped up Capoeira. Beyond the excellent non-combat values you get from aikido, it also gives you some excellent enhancements to the fighting abilities you may have already developed elsewhere, and I say this having sparred and applied these values in hard martial arts settings.
Could you do a video ranking different styles of kung fu?
Much better thanks Seth
I think you’re going to run into similar issues with “Japanese” Jiu Jitsu as you do with Kung Fu/Gong Fu. The list, of course, is mainly for the western world and entertainment.
Having said that, there are tons and tons of schools of “Japanese” Jiu Jitsu that don’t even pop up on TH-cam. A lot of these are difficult to come by even in Japan and when you speak Japanese. Not because they are necessarily rare or secret-they aren’t-but because the number of students is pretty small; often by design for the sake of quality control. The issue is that there are so, so many different schools of Jiu Jitsu. Many sword schools have there own grappling curriculum as well.
It doesn’t mean they are all great or useful. Some have degenerated into aesthetic exercises. But I’d say sport BJJ isn’t in much better a spot. The throw competency just isn’t there and some of the leg entanglements used on standing opponents assumes your opponent won’t simply stomp/soccer kick you. (Looking at things of the imanari roll variety; neat looking but so telegraphed that I’ve seen people punched long before it’s applied).
Again, obviously the list is for entertainment purposes but my point here is I think a lot of these labels could probably be broken down even further. Karate into point karate and things like kyokushin, judo split into Olympic and self defense, BJJ split into point and self defense, Jiu Jitsu into its plethora of styles, etc. That might be too much detail for ye olde TH-cam algorithm, though.
This is probably one of the best assessments I've seen. I have been training in Kung Fu (Hung Gar, Mantis) for 35 years... I've never had more than five or six classmates in my class the entire time - the training is vastly different to larger commercial schools and I would defintely argue that what most people call Kung Fu is not close to what I have experienced. So the ranking from a general sense of what is taught/seen by the masses is pretty in line with how these are ranked. Also, If i were ranking the styles based on what I have experienced and seen locally to me - it would be vastly different based on the types of schools around me.
I've had people ask me which martial art is best for their child, and I've always told them that every kid is different and they should take their kid to the school that makes their eyes get big and get excited.
Some kids like forms, some like stand up, some like grappling, some like MMA and so on.
Anyway, time to get off of my soapbox. As Ramsey would say ," Get out there and train!"
Master Ken "Bullshit!"
Karate Nerd "Check it out!"
Icy Mike "That way is stupid!"
Mexican Martial Arts Channel "Mexican Martial Arts is like MMA, but better"
Did I miss anyone? XD
Hahaha you covered a decent bit of bases!
Best tier list I’ve seen yet
You are No. 1 in the world of martial arts and you are considered one of the best fighters and your channel is distinguished in all fieldsYou are very special and talented and bless in the analysis of martial art styles and karate styles .and you are distinguished player
Gotta say, as a new Kung Fu practitioner, I wish it had done better than TAEKWONDO of all things. I guarantee TKD would be higher up if WTF TKD didn't exist. (But I get it-a LOT of Chinese martial arts styles are not practical, which is why I'm hunting to practice the ones that are as practical as possible like Bajiquan, CLF, perhaps even Sanda one day)
shuai jiao is by far the most pratical traditional chinese martial art
WT as it’s actually called is a lot better than ITF. WT has full contact sparring, whereas ITF has no sparring or very little light contact sparring. People get knocked out everyday in high level WT tournaments, in ITF no one learns how to apply the moves due to the lack of sparring.
@@Histgyph first, sounds like heavy bias. Second, I've seen what ITF can do. I'll take that over point sparring WTF (as it was ACTUALLY called until 2017 if you wanna get technical🙄) any and every day of the week. Matter of fact, I used to do both TKD and Muay Thai. Muay Thai will eat TKD for breakfast and spit out the bones on nine out of ten given days. Fact.
@@Histgyph ITF has medium contact fights and there are ko in the fights. I'm not saying that "ITF is better" or something else, but the both federations have mistakes
@@thebestcentaur this was never about Muay Thai, but ITF is actually more of point sparring, in WT you have to hit your opponent hard for a point, in ITF during the very little sparring they do any contact counts no matter how light, and it’s still not full contact. As everyone knows, and as sensei Seth has said before, if your style doesn’t do sparring, your style doesn’t work, WT does real sparring, ITF does not, it’s that simple
Honestly bro' you need to have a look at ITF TKD competition sparring and stop lumping it in with the WT flicky feet style. Wonderboy's MMA is very similar. If only they allowed leg kicks!
Didn’t you hear what I said though? Lol
@@SenseiSeth Yes, I heard you, man, but you gotta start treating these as two separate arts. I'm sure you are well versed in the history and politics of TKD and why the WTF came into existence. Mind you, now that I think about it there are so many karate styles out there too it kinda seems unfair to lump them all into one. Oh I give up!
Some TKD kicks are straight savage. It's understandable why it isn't higher, because most fights end up on the ground. Can you imagine if Thompson did TKD? Like Holy shit people's heads would be flying off! Seth's kicks are really good too. The vid where he learned the 540 hook in like 10 mins was awesome.
I actually thought your first ranking was pretty solid with only a a couple disagreements. But maybe you can make it better... let's see!
Really enjoy your content anyway, so keep up the informative and entertaining videos!
EDIT: I'm curious where Sambo, and different styles of Kickboxing outside of Muay Thai and Lethwei would go -- Dutch-style for example, which took MT and altered it a bit. Also wonder where Eskrima/Arnis/Kali/FPA would land. Same with something like Wing Chun just because I think that last one would be a chuckle.
But again, I think this is a good ranking, for the most part! Glad Judo went up a tier.
Great video. All fair points. How about best combat style by age group (if you think it matters)?
I still think karate deserves at least b tier
Karate has various styles, and Karate itself is basically Southern Kungfu, as it comes from Okinawans that learned from Hakka kungfu styles.
Any system that goes full contact sparring is different from its base system. The ones that suck don't fight. Or, hardcore spar.
Please put Tai Chi in the F tier.
You should do a ranking system for Best martial arts for conditioning
I find this interesting. I know we are talking effectiveness and you catch a lot of slack for rankings however it is because there is a lot of generalizing. Saying an art is one thing or another is based on who you have trained with or what style like with TKD. Personally I teach both competitors and non competitors in Judo and they must be taught differently. I miss leg picks but I can still teach them to non competitors. While there is a focus on Olympic Judo I enjoy the Kosen judo rule set much more. If you get a chance try a Kosen judo school/ match out or ask to learn traditional Judo or kodokan jiu jitsu. That would include all of the art. There are still people out there that practice it in its entirety. I do somewhat agree with the sport Judo ranking tho.