Hi, check the text comment at 51 seconds in the video where I mention that in real world conditions, 13 panels would normally be possible per string. If you have 14 panels on a string then with 550V max input voltage with PW3 on each MPPT, you are almost certain to have start-up problems on colder mornings from over voltage. e.g. a typical 440W panel has a Voc of just under 40V, so 14 x 40V = 560V and when allowing for increased voltage on cold mornings, it's likely to get to about 600V. Obviously will depend on the exact electrical characteristics of your panels but I'd say you have 1 panel too many per string. Here's a link to a handy calculator... gold-coast-solar-power-solutions.com.au/posts/solar-panel-maximum-voltage-calculator/
Should also have added that your installer may not have done 2 x strings of 14, they may have in fact used the PW3 high input current capability to parallel two strings together, so 14 panels, can with a very simple join at the roof be made into 2 parallel strings of 7. If they have done that then you should be able to see it in the reporting app as current for that MPPT will be something like 24A instead of 12A.
Great expo on the PW3, i didn't know about the 5kw single phase limitation in here in WA. That will put myself out of the market for this product unless there's a change since 10kw makes whole home backup feasible.
Yes, the inverter would need to be wired up as 63A if you were allowed 10kW. We do that cable upgrade to 63A for 5kW 1ph inverters that have backup built-in if the client wants to be able to charge their battery from the grid...e.g. Sungrow SH5.0RS. Cost is distance related because of the hefty AC cable needed, but typically about $700.
@@solar4ever843 is 5kw limitation for the pw3 a software limited, ie same pw3 unit as the 10kw? May be possible to unlock later if the limit is changed.
Great question. I am very interested to see how Tesla have gone to the CEC for approval. If they have applied for a 10kW model only, with software crippling to 5kW then Western Power won't allow it to be installed on their network. However, if Tesla apply for it as factory crippled to 5kW with no possibility to uncripple it by users/installers, only by Tesla if there's a rule change, then Western Power will allow that.
It's not the solar panels that are restricted in WA, it's the inverter capacity. Tesla PW3 has a 5kW and 10kW model (and possibly an 11kW model but I don't think that will be allowed anywhere in Australia). In WA we will only be allowed the 5kW version. However you can connect up to 20kW of panels to that 5kW inverter if you wish although it would be largely pointless to connect much more than 10kW.
Yes it is a lot, but most of that cost is the 13.5kWh battery. There are plenty of other products with smaller, expandable modular batteries that would come in at a lower price than Tesla Powerwall 3. Their 'one size fits all battery' is in my opinion, it's least attractive feature.
I live in Germany ; how likely is it we get a 3phase powerwall 3? I’m asking because you indeed mentioned that there are roadmaps etc but were you able to speak to any tesla energy team to check if it’s true or currently there is no talk about it
My personal opinion is that it is unlikely. I don't think Tesla will make a 3 phase version because it wouldn't be used in their home market. However, I would be delighted to be wrong.
Hi Andrew - in Perth can you go two PW3s and use all 6 MPPTs (max DC battery charge of 10kW) but throttle AC output to 5kW (single phase install) for Western Power requirements?
Unfortunately Western Power don't allow that. If you have single phase you can only install a 5kW solar inverter; you can't install a 10kW or 2 x 5kW and throttle it to 5kW. I made a suggestion in my reply to @justice1902 about how we can go about asking for this rule to be changed. If you upgrade your house to three phase power at a typical cost of $3,000 then you can have 15kW of inverter capacity and up to 30kW of panels with some inverters.
@@solar4ever843 Does that mean in Perth we're not allowed to install two or more PW3s today (single phase), until the DC expansion packs come out to ensure only a single 5kW inverter in the solution?
Correct. The battery expansion packs don't include an inverter so when they come out you can expand storage to 27kWh. However, word of warning...if you hope to charge a 27kWh battery from a 5kW solar install, with no help from the grid, then even with big oversizing (e.g. 10kW+) of panels, you will likely have many Winter days when that isn't remotely possible.
@@solar4ever843 Ok thanks. Yes understood, have done my calendar month modelling throughout the seasons. Planning circa 12-13kW of panels (smaller now as only have 3 MPPTs to play with on difficult roof) so in June will do circa 25kWh of production (average) which won't both fill up 27kWh of batteries and power the home during the day. As such I'll draw cheap TOU plan from the grid during 9am-3pm to ensure batteries are filled to max all year round at 3pm. 27kWh will cover me for full 3pm-9am time window through the year (thereabouts). On the right track? Any point waiting for expansion packs to do the full install (cheaper labour?) or best use this years STCs and add expansion pack next year?
Sounds right to me. My crystal ball isn't working, so can't predict expansion pack time frame, cost etc. Basic rule of thumb though is that anything solar that requires an extra call out is $300 for the call out/first hour. After that it drops down to about $200 per hour + materials.
Thanks for the video, I was really keen on the Powerwall 3. Seems our Labor government and their electricity monopoly don't like renewables in the open market much. Such silly rules.
I suggest we all write to... nigel.wilmot@westernpower.com.au Principal Engineer, Distribution Grid Strategy and Planning, Grid Transformation Politely suggesting that the 5kW phase limit be scrapped and replaced with 10kW as per the rest of the country. We would, of course, be happy to export limit our larger installations to whatever protects the grid from voltage rise. Zero export is fine with me, seeing as we won't be paid a cent anyway under Synergy's DEBs feed in tariff >5kW rule.
Please explain then, how I have 2 x 14 panel and 1 x 6 panel string - your inference is that I can only have 11 per string
Hi, check the text comment at 51 seconds in the video where I mention that in real world conditions, 13 panels would normally be possible per string. If you have 14 panels on a string then with 550V max input voltage with PW3 on each MPPT, you are almost certain to have start-up problems on colder mornings from over voltage.
e.g. a typical 440W panel has a Voc of just under 40V, so 14 x 40V = 560V and when allowing for increased voltage on cold mornings, it's likely to get to about 600V.
Obviously will depend on the exact electrical characteristics of your panels but I'd say you have 1 panel too many per string.
Here's a link to a handy calculator...
gold-coast-solar-power-solutions.com.au/posts/solar-panel-maximum-voltage-calculator/
Should also have added that your installer may not have done 2 x strings of 14, they may have in fact used the PW3 high input current capability to parallel two strings together, so 14 panels, can with a very simple join at the roof be made into 2 parallel strings of 7. If they have done that then you should be able to see it in the reporting app as current for that MPPT will be something like 24A instead of 12A.
Great expo on the PW3, i didn't know about the 5kw single phase limitation in here in WA. That will put myself out of the market for this product unless there's a change since 10kw makes whole home backup feasible.
I made a suggestion in my reply to @justice1902. Worth a try.
@@solar4ever843 too be honest though to carry 10kw id prolly need to rewire can our wires safely carry 40+ amps?
Yes, the inverter would need to be wired up as 63A if you were allowed 10kW.
We do that cable upgrade to 63A for 5kW 1ph inverters that have backup built-in if the client wants to be able to charge their battery from the grid...e.g. Sungrow SH5.0RS. Cost is distance related because of the hefty AC cable needed, but typically about $700.
@@solar4ever843 is 5kw limitation for the pw3 a software limited, ie same pw3 unit as the 10kw? May be possible to unlock later if the limit is changed.
Great question. I am very interested to see how Tesla have gone to the CEC for approval. If they have applied for a 10kW model only, with software crippling to 5kW then Western Power won't allow it to be installed on their network.
However, if Tesla apply for it as factory crippled to 5kW with no possibility to uncripple it by users/installers, only by Tesla if there's a rule change, then Western Power will allow that.
So if your not in WA and you have single phase you can add more then 5kwh of solar panels to the powerwall 3? so like 10kwh of panels?
It's not the solar panels that are restricted in WA, it's the inverter capacity. Tesla PW3 has a 5kW and 10kW model (and possibly an 11kW model but I don't think that will be allowed anywhere in Australia). In WA we will only be allowed the 5kW version. However you can connect up to 20kW of panels to that 5kW inverter if you wish although it would be largely pointless to connect much more than 10kW.
Great info especially for wa people. Unfortunately $20000 up front is a lot. Over how many years would it take to pay off
Yes it is a lot, but most of that cost is the 13.5kWh battery. There are plenty of other products with smaller, expandable modular batteries that would come in at a lower price than Tesla Powerwall 3. Their 'one size fits all battery' is in my opinion, it's least attractive feature.
I live in Germany ; how likely is it we get a 3phase powerwall 3? I’m asking because you indeed mentioned that there are roadmaps etc but were you able to speak to any tesla energy team to check if it’s true or currently there is no talk about it
My personal opinion is that it is unlikely. I don't think Tesla will make a 3 phase version because it wouldn't be used in their home market. However, I would be delighted to be wrong.
Hi Andrew - in Perth can you go two PW3s and use all 6 MPPTs (max DC battery charge of 10kW) but throttle AC output to 5kW (single phase install) for Western Power requirements?
Unfortunately Western Power don't allow that. If you have single phase you can only install a 5kW solar inverter; you can't install a 10kW or 2 x 5kW and throttle it to 5kW.
I made a suggestion in my reply to @justice1902 about how we can go about asking for this rule to be changed. If you upgrade your house to three phase power at a typical cost of $3,000 then you can have 15kW of inverter capacity and up to 30kW of panels with some inverters.
@@solar4ever843 Does that mean in Perth we're not allowed to install two or more PW3s today (single phase), until the DC expansion packs come out to ensure only a single 5kW inverter in the solution?
Correct. The battery expansion packs don't include an inverter so when they come out you can expand storage to 27kWh. However, word of warning...if you hope to charge a 27kWh battery from a 5kW solar install, with no help from the grid, then even with big oversizing (e.g. 10kW+) of panels, you will likely have many Winter days when that isn't remotely possible.
@@solar4ever843 Ok thanks. Yes understood, have done my calendar month modelling throughout the seasons. Planning circa 12-13kW of panels (smaller now as only have 3 MPPTs to play with on difficult roof) so in June will do circa 25kWh of production (average) which won't both fill up 27kWh of batteries and power the home during the day. As such I'll draw cheap TOU plan from the grid during 9am-3pm to ensure batteries are filled to max all year round at 3pm. 27kWh will cover me for full 3pm-9am time window through the year (thereabouts). On the right track? Any point waiting for expansion packs to do the full install (cheaper labour?) or best use this years STCs and add expansion pack next year?
Sounds right to me. My crystal ball isn't working, so can't predict expansion pack time frame, cost etc. Basic rule of thumb though is that anything solar that requires an extra call out is $300 for the call out/first hour. After that it drops down to about $200 per hour + materials.
Thanks for the video, I was really keen on the Powerwall 3. Seems our Labor government and their electricity monopoly don't like renewables in the open market much. Such silly rules.
I suggest we all write to...
nigel.wilmot@westernpower.com.au
Principal Engineer, Distribution Grid Strategy and Planning, Grid Transformation
Politely suggesting that the 5kW phase limit be scrapped and replaced with 10kW as per the rest of the country. We would, of course, be happy to export limit our larger installations to whatever protects the grid from voltage rise.
Zero export is fine with me, seeing as we won't be paid a cent anyway under Synergy's DEBs feed in tariff >5kW rule.
Hi, what about in South Australia?
You will need to check with your solar companies there, but I believe all of Australia except WA allows 10kW per phase.