Just installed the Mtech spring and performed the adjustment (shortening the pushrod by about 2 threads) on my 2022 Brz. It now feels natural more like every other clutch. Big thumbs up 👍 to your video!
Thanks for the good videos and descriptions. I tried some different springs, here are what I experienced: 1-OEM _ I always had some difficulty being smooth 2-No spring - Better than with spring, but still didn't feel as great as expected. Efforts were OK with me. 3-Light spring - - Not much different than no spring 4-Medium spring - Shifting is a lot better. Quite a bit better than no spring or OEM spring. 5-Spring with optimized rate and length - I ordered a batch, but don't have them yet. I did calculations that show the non-linear effect. However, this can be greatly improved with an optimized spring rate and length. As you commented, geometry and spring have a strange effect. I believe going to the 5th option will be an improvement. I never did a clutch adjustment, as it was right where it needs to be. I'm sure how the car is driven, clutch wear and adjustment all have an effect. I'm an "Old guy" and drive like it, normal commuting mostly. Has there ever been any information from Subaru/Toyota about what the actual purpose of the spring is? I've not seen it yet. Also, some Mustang guys seem to have the same issue with the same type of design.
Great! I'm glad you found a spring you like. I didn't have the patience to try that many springs, good job! So you have the specs for the medium spring or even better a PN that people can order? I'm sure it would be appreciated. In looking around I did see that mustangs (and I think some other Fords) have the same design. So strange... I was never able to find anything from any manufacturer about why it was designed like that. Bummer, it would be interesting to know for sure what the intent was.
@@thoughtbombdesign MTEC looks like a good choice, but I did not try it. The initial springs were just what was in my garage, and happened to fit. I found Mcmaster-carr, Granger and other websites, but nothing at local stores or ebay. Anyways, here are the specs: Preferred range IMHO: 30-60 Lb/inch Length: 2.0" to 1.75" ~0.75" ID --MTEC 63 Lb/inch from your data, what length is this spring? Looks similar to OEM --OEM 150 Lb/inch from your data 1.65" long --Light spring estimate 20 Lb/inch - --Medium spring estimate 30 Lb/inch 2.0" long --57 Lb/In 1.75 Long 0.97" ID - very close to MTEC I did not install this yet. 9657K379 From Mcmaster carr. $10 for 6 parts + shipping, they were manufactured by Lee --49 lb/in 2.0" I think the medium spring felt better, but left this in the car for now, to reduce possible slave cylinder leak as it has more preload. FYI, spring deflection in the car goes to about 0.60", but the data went to 0.40". Not a big deal, but if you could remeasure up to 0.6 inch I would appreciate it.
@@thoughtbombdesign 95% of springs are steel, and the difference between the different grades of steel, including stainless is significantly less important than the dimensions of the spring itself. The modulus of rigidity for the material is directly proportional to the rate, however the the wire diameter proportional to the 4th power, and the diameter of the coil is inversely proportional to the 3rd power. and your margin of error when measuring those dimensions would be far greater than the difference between any grade of steel. the modulus for cold rolled steel is 75gpa, where the modulus for structural steel is about 79gpa, stainless steel is in between at about 78. on average aluminum alloys are about 27, but rarely used for springs since aluminum fatigue resistance is poor. Titanium is about 41, which is common for valve springs in high performance applications, but not in many other places. Also heat treat isn't a factor of the calculation, but if the heat treat is wrong the spring shape will deform instead of evenly springing back, and not all grades of steel are conducive to heat treating. Don't take my word for it though, plenty of documentation on the web though. cheers. Oh and for fun: parametrically model a spring, in your modeler of choice, use the spring dimensions to drive the equation and output the rate. Naturally when springs compress, the coil diameter changes and the entire coil twists. Drive the coil diameter and number of coil parameters using the spring length and "compress" the spring by changing the length value, and you can essentially prove that the spring rate remains constant despite changing diameter and number of wraps.
My dude, I was rewatching your old clutch spring video and found out you made this one. I'm surprised most of the improvement you feel comes from actually adjusting the clutch than from removing the spring, I guess I will have to try it too. I am just concerned about messing up and having worn clutch or something. Your videos are dope, I hope you keep making more.
yeah, you should only do what you feel comfortable with but it really wasn't that hard. Just take pictures or measurements of what the linkage looks like before you tsrat and then you can always put it back!
I'm the only one thinking that stock feeling is not that bad? My 2 cents: the best would be to have the engage point exactly where the sping has no effect (no pushing or pulling when you need the most sensibility), while it's good to have assistance before and after (in opposite directions), the response in the graph is in effect more linear with the spring.
Did you ever measure the OD/ID, wire diameter, free length? Trying to see if I can source this from my local spring shop. Much appreciated, love your videos
With no spring. The clutch has too much sloppy, but you do clutch adjustment can make the sloppy go away. But it’s not the clutch length I like. No clutch is not a 100% good idea.
![BRZ Clutch Spring Removal [How &Why]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8gvS3n8wI9Y/mqdefault.jpg)
![BRZ Clutch Spring Removal [How &Why]](/img/tr.png)
I love this guy he just no crap says what u need to see and with graphs and maths too more you tubers like this pls
Thanks! 😁
Just installed the Mtech spring and performed the adjustment (shortening the pushrod by about 2 threads) on my 2022 Brz. It now feels natural more like every other clutch. Big thumbs up 👍 to your video!
Awesome, glad to help! Have fun!!!
This channel is underrated
Thanks!!! 👍
Your the best bro, thank you currently installing the mtec spring
Keep on with the quality vids
Awesome, thanks! I am glad to help out 👍💥
Brilliant video, just coming from your previous spring vid. So much effort put into providing accurate information. It's really appreciated man. Props
Thanks man! That means a lot.
Thanks for the good videos and descriptions. I tried some different springs, here are what I experienced:
1-OEM _ I always had some difficulty being smooth
2-No spring - Better than with spring, but still didn't feel as great as expected. Efforts were OK with me.
3-Light spring - - Not much different than no spring
4-Medium spring - Shifting is a lot better. Quite a bit better than no spring or OEM spring.
5-Spring with optimized rate and length - I ordered a batch, but don't have them yet.
I did calculations that show the non-linear effect. However, this can be greatly improved with an optimized spring rate and length. As you commented, geometry and spring have a strange effect. I believe going to the 5th option will be an improvement.
I never did a clutch adjustment, as it was right where it needs to be. I'm sure how the car is driven, clutch wear and adjustment all have an effect. I'm an "Old guy" and drive like it, normal commuting mostly.
Has there ever been any information from Subaru/Toyota about what the actual purpose of the spring is? I've not seen it yet.
Also, some Mustang guys seem to have the same issue with the same type of design.
Great! I'm glad you found a spring you like. I didn't have the patience to try that many springs, good job!
So you have the specs for the medium spring or even better a PN that people can order? I'm sure it would be appreciated.
In looking around I did see that mustangs (and I think some other Fords) have the same design. So strange...
I was never able to find anything from any manufacturer about why it was designed like that. Bummer, it would be interesting to know for sure what the intent was.
@@thoughtbombdesign
MTEC looks like a good choice, but I did not try it. The initial springs were just what was in my garage, and happened to fit. I found Mcmaster-carr, Granger and other websites, but nothing at local stores or ebay.
Anyways, here are the specs:
Preferred range IMHO: 30-60 Lb/inch Length: 2.0" to 1.75" ~0.75" ID
--MTEC 63 Lb/inch from your data, what length is this spring? Looks similar to OEM
--OEM 150 Lb/inch from your data 1.65" long
--Light spring estimate 20 Lb/inch -
--Medium spring estimate 30 Lb/inch 2.0" long
--57 Lb/In 1.75 Long 0.97" ID - very close to MTEC I did not install this yet. 9657K379 From Mcmaster carr. $10 for 6 parts + shipping, they were manufactured by Lee
--49 lb/in 2.0" I think the medium spring felt better, but left this in the car for now, to reduce possible slave cylinder leak as it has more preload.
FYI, spring deflection in the car goes to about 0.60", but the data went to 0.40". Not a big deal, but if you could remeasure up to 0.6 inch I would appreciate it.
@@louisestrong3187 great info, thanks!
@@louisestrong3187 did you ever figure this out?
@@jerryismybff curious as well
So science! 👨🔬👨🏻💻 🚗 I love the bloopers at the end.😋❤️
Thanks! I like the bloopers too but they're hard to watch when it's yourself!! ;)
pro tip, you can measure a springs dimensions and get the rate as well, assuming its a linear rate and has round wire.
Yep, as long as you also know the specific material and heat treat! 👍
@@thoughtbombdesign 95% of springs are steel, and the difference between the different grades of steel, including stainless is significantly less important than the dimensions of the spring itself. The modulus of rigidity for the material is directly proportional to the rate, however the the wire diameter proportional to the 4th power, and the diameter of the coil is inversely proportional to the 3rd power. and your margin of error when measuring those dimensions would be far greater than the difference between any grade of steel. the modulus for cold rolled steel is 75gpa, where the modulus for structural steel is about 79gpa, stainless steel is in between at about 78. on average aluminum alloys are about 27, but rarely used for springs since aluminum fatigue resistance is poor. Titanium is about 41, which is common for valve springs in high performance applications, but not in many other places.
Also heat treat isn't a factor of the calculation, but if the heat treat is wrong the spring shape will deform instead of evenly springing back, and not all grades of steel are conducive to heat treating.
Don't take my word for it though, plenty of documentation on the web though. cheers.
Oh and for fun: parametrically model a spring, in your modeler of choice, use the spring dimensions to drive the equation and output the rate. Naturally when springs compress, the coil diameter changes and the entire coil twists. Drive the coil diameter and number of coil parameters using the spring length and "compress" the spring by changing the length value, and you can essentially prove that the spring rate remains constant despite changing diameter and number of wraps.
My dude, I was rewatching your old clutch spring video and found out you made this one. I'm surprised most of the improvement you feel comes from actually adjusting the clutch than from removing the spring, I guess I will have to try it too. I am just concerned about messing up and having worn clutch or something.
Your videos are dope, I hope you keep making more.
yeah, you should only do what you feel comfortable with but it really wasn't that hard. Just take pictures or measurements of what the linkage looks like before you tsrat and then you can always put it back!
I'm the only one thinking that stock feeling is not that bad? My 2 cents: the best would be to have the engage point exactly where the sping has no effect (no pushing or pulling when you need the most sensibility), while it's good to have assistance before and after (in opposite directions), the response in the graph is in effect more linear with the spring.
Another question, did you end up keeping the MTEC spring installed or you removed it? Which one you prefer?
I ended up going with no spring at all and never looked back ;)
I think the point was the MTEC spring was so low on stiffness, the behaviour of travel vs pedal force was almost identical to just having no spring.
Awesome video, keep up the good work
Thanks! I've hit a bit of a mental block but I'm almost ready to get back at it!
Did you ever measure the OD/ID, wire diameter, free length? Trying to see if I can source this from my local spring shop. Much appreciated, love your videos
Sorry, I missed this comment earlier... ID=0.82", wire Dia is 0.118", free length is 1.68". Good luck!
@@thoughtbombdesign can you please post the lbs/in of the Mtech spring, too? Thanks!
hi there, if you check out 1:44 of the video it shows what you need. 👍😁
good content
Thanks! I'm glad to hear you like it 👍
good stuff!
Thanks! Glad you liked it. :)
oohhh hell yeah I liked it!@@thoughtbombdesign
With no spring. The clutch has too much sloppy, but you do clutch adjustment can make the sloppy go away. But it’s not the clutch length I like. No clutch is not a 100% good idea.