The TRUTH about EV Charging: Why do so many people get it WRONG? | MGUY Australia
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10 minutes? When do people in power stop lying? NEVER
Logic says:
If lying is to be reduced, individuals must wield as little power as possible.
When they shut their mouths.
They are not lying lol. They just think that 360kw and maybe even above charging is like plugging in a wall socket lol. They are just stupid.
Have a 150KWH battery (per BEV) and an industrial-grade grid connection (those connections that steel furnaces and particle accelerators get) and you can get a reasonable amount of BEVs charge 500km in 10 minutes.
Also, put up a sticker: "Insert coin".
@@Karthig1987 Electricity doing work produces heat, all electronic designs have to dissipate the heat somehow, either by heatsinks, fans or water cooling. A battery has resistance and electricity flowing into it produces heat the enemy of lithium ion.
It would be better if we let electrical engineers design our energy systems.
Climate activists, politicians and companies grifting off the transition are simply the wrong people to ask, unless you want an energy system that doesn't work.
Why do you think the government is allowing us to think that they are being swayed by green activists? They are being used as scapegoats. When the mobs come, they'll be coming for Greta not the government.
My mate that recently passed away was an EE that designed a BIG chunk of the grid in this country over the last 40 Years. What he was asked to do the last few years that was all political based was absurd. They would have him designing transmission lines and sub stations that as he said, would serve the main purpose of a Photo op in the paper and very little else but cost 10's of millions to do.
They aren't allowed to do what is best, they are told to do what looks and sounds good.
in Switzerland we have the perfect example of grifting the "liberal green party" (here liberal means capitalism without gov.intervention) a supposedly green party but when you check who is in it they all make solar panels, sell "green" counseling for enterprises and such, a party of greedy extreme capitalists who only want to be elected to abuse their position for their own companies...marvelous
The Australian electrical grid was NOT designed, not even a chunk of it, by your mate, God rest his soul! Our grid system is the result of a multitude of very clever people, over a number of generations, with REAL degrees and decades of experience in all aspects of power generation, distribution and network stability. Denigrating their efforts is an insult to their intelligence and testament to the stupidity of this echo chambers author and his subscribers.
@@Disgracefoold So you knew him and what he did, all the projects he worked on and the awards he got?
Right!
Easy to see you are an EV fanboi and not doubt believe in all the climate crap as well.
Haw many shots of the poxine are you up to now?
The grid is not designed to do what we are trying to do with it.
"we"?
You probably mean "they".
Fast charging also increases heat with fast DEGRADES the battery AND causes more potential fires. I OOOOOVE the battery swap idea. Cant wait to take my BRAND NEW battery and EXCHANGE it for a battery from someone else that is 5 years old. GENIU
I already see the fluctuations in frequency and voltage in our electron microscopes.
@@fladave99 Indeed, the known "losses" are converted into heat.
If these become concentrated in this short period of time and cannot be dissipated enough, I also fear the worst.
Actually, the grid is not a design but a concept. This concept is derived from the fact that except for lightbulbs practically every electric consumer has a highly fluctuating power demand but the chance of two such devices showing the exact same power demand over time is already like one in a billion. By tying all these devices to a single power source we stack all these usage graphs on top of each other which results in a total power demand that is practically continuous throughout a large portion of the day and this allows us to run generators in the most energy efficient way. The green deal undermines the purpose of the grid by adding extreme variations on both input and output and not necessarily moving in the same direction.
Imagine a world where we had politicians that were actually qualified and with morals, to conduct their elected duties, instead of the corrupt, lying fraudsters that are in power?
Fantasy land. I can't even begin to imagine it . . .
Who in power has morals? No one.
To be fair, the politician doesn't need the qualification, he just needs to take advice from someone who does.
Where is this world? I will steer my spaceship's heading toward that place.
Saxon. That is how it works already......
A battery providing 400 miles of range to fully charge in 10 minutes would require facilities delivering approximately 1300 amps of current at 800 volts. For 6 such super chargers operating at the same time a 6MVA transformer would be required. Correction.... The same as for 270 homes😂
Simple, install a small nuclear generator 😂
@ramb5193 800V * 10A gives you 8KW charging power. To charge your 80KWH battery, you need 10 hours (without losses).
One hour is then 100A. 10 minutes, 1/6th of an hour, is then 600A. And 5min (comparable to petrol/biofuel/synfuel/FEVs) requires 1200A.
Keep in mind that a 0 to 100 charge cannot be accomplished at full speed. Therefore a battery sized to be charged in 5min for 400 "miles" must typically be significantly larger.
Also, please always specify whether you're using nmi or smi.
@@svr5423You’re talking normal batteries, not magic Chinese batteries.
@@jpcaretta8847 nuclear is bad. Install 1000 Wind turbines for the 6 chargers. If the wind doesn't blow, then have 1000 gigantic fans that you can switch on to blow wind towards the wind mills. All you need is another coal fired power plant to make sure you can power the Big Fans when needed. See! We can make green energy work.
thanks didn't want to make the calculations lol but as I often cite on this channel I work in a pretty heavy industry in "my" room one of many I have 1'000'000watts never stopping 7/7 365 elsewhere they have oven using 180'000watts to heat at something like 2000°C lol well we have our own grid station and half the town actually gets it's electricity from us, the only way we can fight those ridiculous numbers for me is the keep the zeroes in it, every time I read 30kWh (nissan leaf battery) I reply 30'000Wh they love to make numbers look smaller than they are
What makes me despair about this country is that we lag behind the rest of the world by 10 years, instead of learning the lessons of others, our politicians blithely leap into anything and everything that was proven to be a bad idea...
That is so true and disturbing.
What makes me despair is that our politicians KNOW this EV crap will never work and they are doing it - and whatever else that little Shitler Klaus Schwabb and the WEF / WHO / UN says with such enthusiasm. They know these things and all the net zero crap will destroy this country completely and leave nothing but broke and broken people with no social or actual infrastructure and no way of rebuilding any. This rubbish is too stupid to be stupid - even for politicians.
Part of the plan
Looks to me all countries are doing it.
stupid people vote for stupid leaders.
When did we start trusting anything that china tells us? Like never!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
From 250 to 600 overnight. What is not to believe?
If you are one of the people who has found some certain channels on the topic, then you are quite aware of the issues with basically any tech from that country.
Basically most breakthroughs from there are stolen or are lies
My thoughts exactly!
It is possible in China but China has piles of cheap coal powered electricity.
@@matthewmosier8439 Yep, "China fakes everything".
You can't charge a phone in ten minutes.
You can, but only once and under liquid nitrogen, probably...
Why would you want to when you're asleep for 8 hours?
You can. Xiaomi can charge at 200 watts. Judging by what they're able to achieve in the phone space I'm honestly stoked about what they might be able to do in the ev space.
@@Luka_3Dstoked is probably more apt than you intended 😂
Good luck with scaleability.
I remember back in 1982 my late father was among 40+ other people snowbound in a coach on Stormy Down, Wales for 3 days. He said if the driver hadn't been able to start the engine every now and then to heat the interior they would all have frozen to death - he wasn't joking. Imagine the same happening to a coachload of people in an EV coach.
If our entire political establishment and civil servants were stranded in a convoy of them, I suspect we’d turn a blind eye!
Actually the Diesel engine caused so much global warming on its own that they nearly got sunburn.
Diesel fuel turns to jelly when it is too cold and will destroy an engine.
Right in line with the population decrease plan
We driver EV work trucks here at work. The charge is barely enough for a day's work in winter. Usually, the battery is low just after lunch time and the machine automatically turns heat off to maintain battery. So often in winter we have no heat in the truck after lunch.
And these calculations don't take into account losses.
Indeed, or the battery degradation from continual fast charging...
@@MGUYTVIs there a calculation for battery charge/discharge losses as well as inverter and motor losses during accel & regen around? It seems that there is lots of hand wavey "look how much better" to EV and hybrid pitches. Real numbers would be useful.
@@ChiefBridgeFuser All that data is there but you have to dig for it, possibly on a part by part basis. Tesla doesn't make the motors and parts/ inverters and so forth.
Right. Back when I toyed with the idea of replacing my F150 (petrol(gas)) with a new electric one - I had on the plus side a heated garage due to heat from converting electric to chemical energy. Which you'd also have big time if planning on a booster battery at the charging stations.
The inmates are running the asylum. 🤪
New third grade lesson: Sheila charges her EV in 12 hours. Bruce charges his in 10 minutes. Who is exploiting Sheila with his toxic masculinity to charge his car faster?
Batteries like trickle charging. They certainly don't like their electrons forced to move around quickly. That's why fast charging and discharging ruins the battery. So take the hours to charge and don't put your foot down. Drive it like an old woman.
Just make the battery big enough, then the current per cell will be considerable low.
let's say 150 to 200kwh for a BEV with a design range of 500km.
Toyota did the same consideration in their HSD batteries. They have much more physical capacity than the system actually uses, to allow both for longevity and reduced stress.
Also, batteries are consumables. Just exchange them every 2 to 5 years.
My fast charging phone is evidence of that, battery knackered in less than a year. 😂
@@svr5423 Going to need a HGV license to drive it!
At 40-60 thousand dollars for a replacement? You are not going to get many takers at that price. That is why the EV second hand market is stalling. No one wants that probable liability.
The Kia Drivers' Handbook warns against fast charging.
Most of the Stupid Bloody things would Burn before Fully Charged !! 😂🤣
Yeah! I keep waiting for mine to burst into flames in the garage where it lives, might manage to catch it on the door camera...5 years and over 100,000 km now and no sign of it so far.....🤣🤣
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 You have a garage in Mom's basement? How does that work?
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 All i can say to you old Son you got the better tecnology before the shit ones started , Good for You Bro 👍
And usual chyna BS
@@woofwoof9647so now some are good and some are bad. Got it.
I usually despise cable thieves but not chargers ones. Get rid of this EV dictatorship
I mean you're the one paying for them in the end so I'd just focus on eliminating crime first lol
Bring back horses!
But you're just fine with the fossil fuel dictatorship I guess...which on the reality/imaginary scale is a lot closer to reality than your imagined EV autocracy.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Yeah. With both you're relying on someone lol
Fuck EVS. NOBODY WANTS THEM!!
Come on chap, schools haven’t taught basic physics for decades. Dragging up my dim memories of my BTEC HNC in Electrical and Electronic Engineering from the 1980s, wouldn’t you need a cable as thick as an oak tree to pass that current without horrific heat loss due to conductor resistance?
Not forgeting diversity and volts drop
ahh, yeh
The waste from heat generated by cable resistance when sent at DC low voltage high amperage would even make St Greta blush...
Imagine how much the copper theives would love that!
@@brianlopez8855 That little doom-troll is not interested in the climate change BS anymore. She moved on... She's a big fan of hamas terrorism now. They must pay better.
I'll stick to refuelling my ICE car in under 5 minutes, thanks. 450 miles range is good enough for me.
😆😅🤣😂 Hillarious description of our current education system. (Sadly there's a lot of truth in it) Good one!!!!!!
Just today Victoria and NSW advised that there will black outs this winter due to supply issues. Imagine when everyone has an EV and charges when they get home from work for the day.
Because SA cannot geberate enough 'polluted 'green' energy to keep the eastern seaboard cool. SA is now officially the blackout state
The fully charged show was blathering about a new battery storage facility in Western Australia. Hyping it big time as the solution to all ills. Doesn't sound anymore credible than the SA one that failed to prevent blackouts a few years ago though.
I was thinking of this myself. Exactly why I am building my own off grid system for my surburan home.
Been the only one with the lights on several times already and im not finished yet but can't wait till I am.
@@user-it7lf7kk8m These big batteries are always a load of overhyped BS. When you braik them down, they can keep half a small city like Adelaide powered for 30 Min or something useless.
The other glossed over point is they are BATTERIES. They do not GENERATE power like the thermal stations they are blowing up and generate it 24/7 No matter the weather.
big issue in europe back in 2022.
My backup plan was always to sit in my petrol car. It provides heating in winter as well as enough electricity to power my smartphone and laptop, so I can continue working.
Also comes with food and drink.
Oh gosh nail on the head with education!!
The grid is stuffed with the 'intermittent' tissue paper infrastructure of wind and solar and the intent to close down the thermal power stations..
That's right and sooner or later it will all fall apart. Can't run a modern economy on sunshine and breezes.
@@Withnail1969 a growing number of developed economies seem to manage quite well on renewables (Norway, Denmark, NZ)
And legacy energy from mostly natural gas, coal and nuclear still has to remain idling when the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine, so it actually ends up using more energy than legacy fuel alone.
@@Stepbystep74
You need to look closely at all 3 countries you mentioned and see the charging infrastructure they employ.
Vast amounts of land covered in water due to dams.
Wet countries, no problem.
Have you any idea how many dams would need to be built and thousands of acres of land, water covered, would be needed to furnish the needs of the electric dream?
Scotland, for example, is a perfect example of how NOT to do it as the once stunning countryside from the lowlands of the south to the Highlands of the North are totally ruined by horrific windfarms!!!
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLLI grew up in Decatur, Illinois. Some miles north of town is an atomic power plant, which was grossly overpriced due to lawsuits from environmentalists and regulatory ratcheting. Only one of the two planned reactors was ever installed.
Now the whole area has wind farms on every moraine, it seems. The power company wanted to shut down the nuke plant, but the state has agreed to subsidize it enough to keep it open, because it’s essential WHEN THE WIND DOES NOT BLOW. If they’d installed that second reactor, the wind farms would be SUPERFLUOUS.
Not just stupid politicians, people in finance have the same level of stupidity !
Just imagine 20 big trucks charging in 10 minutes all at the same time. 🤣🤣🤣
💥
@@k.chriscaldwell4141 Yeah, you'd need an atom bomb to illuminate all the solar panels at night. 🤣🤣🤣
To get the required electricity to the recharge point is going to require pylons and a transformer substation next to the rechargers. Or tearing up all the roads nearby to install HV cables, all of which is going to require a truly insane amount of copper. And can you imagine how much EM interference all this is going to cause?
The equivalent of a small town, the power just isnt there. We can't hook up that kind of power in the middle of, say, Nebraska.
@@Withnail1969 Just imagine the power surges. 🤣
You're right about education. Give a shop assistant cash and they look panicked.
Try giving someone £20.27p for something costing £18.27p and asking for £2 back, never fails to alarm.
Acquantaince of mine and I were attending an event. You could pay in three installments or in one.
She proudly announced that she'll pay in three because "she doesn't have much money".
The discount for paying in one was much bigger than the highest APR on the most dubious credit card I've ever seen from loan shark inc.
I didn't explain it to her, because people always get upset when you explain why they're broke and dumb.
@@svr5423 that's a funny story but sadly true. I know a university professor who is equally illiterate.
FAST Charge Time Will be IMPOSSIBLE as the GRID CANNOT Support.
Fill a Tank of gas in 5 mins is the MOST Efficient
FORGET EVs
For 80% of the day the car isn't being used so what's the rush? Plug in and forget about it
Yeah nothing beats filling up at a gas station. I can deal with 12 minutes for an extra 450 km of range though.
And it's definitely possible for the grid to handle that as it is already handling people charging at those kinds of speeds.
The dolts who keep this fiasco alive are consumers that are too lazy to investigate the pros and cons of EV ownership.
Never minding the fact that it does not solve the problems it is sold on. They are still coal fired batteries that are toxic to make and dispose of.
Ev ownership is under 15%. Which makes your statement false. People don't care because the government told them not to care. Ez
To charge a battery in 10 minutes will destroy the battery, it will boil the electrolyte and possibly cause thermal runaway.
lith batteries do not have electrolyte like a flooded battery but none the less, they certainly generate heat when charging or discharging which is why EV's have cooling systems.
Simons calculations for power and charging time are out because he is not calculating thermal and inefficency losses.
The times and power needed will be a lot more than a straigh power Vs. time calculation making the situation even worse.
Heat heat and more heat
@@glumpy10 All batteries have an electrolyte, whether liquid or solid. An electrolyte is where all the energy is stored. The electrolyte in a lithium-ion battery is in the name, lithium salts. A double AA alkaline battery 'dry cell' has an electrolyte of an alkaline version of potassium hydroxide. The big problem with LI-Ion batteries and that squishy electrolyte is the faster you charge the faster the lithium salts want to expand and contract, and if it is too fast, irreparable separation, voids and chemistry changes appear that over time start weakening the battery capacity.
@@glumpy10 Actually they do. They aren't a flooded battery though.
Thermal runaway good name for a metal band
As a former teacher, thank you so much for what you said in the intro! Too true! 👍🏼
And thank you for your brilliant channel! 😍
My mate was looking for a 'green job' in UK, the ones hyped up by governments..... he found out where they actually exist they are all 'net zero hours contracts'....
They need very few employees for wind farms etc and contractors would be specialised repair crews and what not.
STEM subjects?.What!!! How dare you.
no that would be gender studies majors with a degree in "I'm offended" 😁
*How Dare You*
STEM subjects are discriminatory to idiots.
dat b racisssst.
Now now Simon, don't let the facts get in the way. Sadly your assessment of the current education system is also correct.
EV’s 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh Simon…Don’t go quoting physics to these people. Here in the UK I am waiting for someone to address the elephant in the room…power generation and distribution to facilitate a widespread adoption of EVs.
That's not a problem, that's a goal.
Hence why the media doesn't address it.
Create an issue, publicize the issue by claiming it was caused by "our system", then introduce legislation robbing freedoms from taxpaying citizens to "solve the issue".
Then let the billonaires and the current protected class do whatever they want despite the legislation
@@matthewmosier8439 Exactly- there's no mandate for widespread adoption of EVs, just a high % of sales. This already happened in Norway, 85% + new car sales were EV... during the worst auto sales in 60 years! i.e. they didn't sell many EVs, they just crushed the ICE market to almost zero- so the remaining EV sales (mostly corp and govt fleets) hit those targets percentage wise.
National grid got invited to a debate on tv. The back of the fag packet cost to upgrade the grid was 3 trillion pounds. Plus of course 127 Drax sized power stations. Net zero = what you will have in your pay packet after they have taxed us to pay for it.
4:43 The other FUNDAMENTAL FLAW is that the FASTER YOU CHARGE the HIGHER THE CHANCES OF A MAJOR EXPLOSION
unless you use LTO cells.
@@bartoszskowronski - then the range tanks... horses and courses (I maintain tanks of diesel).
Hi Simon! Been watching your videos to educate myself on evs and net zero. I first became enfatuated by evs when the first nissan leaf got launched and a local startup offered them from their app by the minute. Loved the experience and how quickly accelerating the car was. To my surprise, the company behind the service went out of business in a space of just 1 year. Then my very own friend started an electric moped rental company. He’s a clever, energetic and charismatic man so I was expecting great things to come. Unfortunately, in just 18 months his business went under leaving him and his young family in crippling debt. Those failed businesses made me question the validity of electric transportation. How can green mobility startups fail in the world of net zero? Because of physics and reality, is the answer. I do hope your channel reaches mass audiences and proceeds to educate the public about the net zero scam we’re all paying for with our hard earned cash.
Notice the marketing games they play too. When they quote range they use the full 100% battery charge. Yet when they quote charge times they use 20% to 80%.
It is actually worse, the there are charge losses as well. So you need to roughly spend 20% more energy to charge a battery as what you get back. It is also reasonable to suspect that this number is not constant and that reducing charging time will also reduce charging yield. So your Tesla model 3 may require around 450 MW of power to charge in 10 minutes. Wow, that is a lot of wet towels.
Anyone know what size of a cable you would need to charge a car without it overheating? And how much of a tempting target that cable would be for someone who wants to sell the copper?
Increasing the voltage would solve both problems :)
@@svr5423you need more insulation, protection...
Increasing the voltage and cooling the cable with water will solve the problem.
And wouldn't the batteries over heat while being charged at a higher rate.
Allegedly you just put a wet towel over it. Problem solved, I hear!
@@tokyosundeiru2006 A wet towel a few millimeters from extremely high power? What could possibly go wrong?
Not if they are 100 percent efficient. But unlikely they are anywhere close. 90 percent efficient battery would expel 10 percent of energy in heat. At that much energy input, 10 percent would be a bunch of heat. I might try to calculate that when I get time.
They are actively cooled by the ac unit passing chilled collant through them
@@Luka_3D they will still overheat the individual cells. The liquid only can cool the surface of the individual cells, too much waste heat will accumulate inside the cells faster than it can move to the cooler surface.
Huge banks of capacitors will be required, more cost, more space and more to fix.....Whilst a friend waits for his home EV charger being fitted he bought a charger cable off a larger internet company which melted at the plug socket...i dont think he realises how lucky he was... but i did ask him if he bought his EV or had it on HP, to which he replied bought.....i just said better watch out for the depreciation...and changed the conversation.
imagine the explosion when you'd accicentally shortcircuit such a capacitor, e.g. by having an accident.
you have to be very careful to ensure you arent overloading devices like that. Like with smart plugs, people put a 2 kilowatt electric heater on those without knowing the plug may not be rated for more than 1 kw. I imagine that was user error in his case.
@@Withnail1969 I know I was trying to explain that a std 13amp socket shouldn't go over 3kw and that was why his oven is hard wired in. He is not the most technical!
I just loved "A third grader WOULD HAVE been able to do 40 years ago...."
When you push more power into a battery faster you get more heat so you actually need even more power. You'd also need some pretty radical cooling systems to stop the whole thing turning into an inferno.
Apparently you can use a wet rag to fix that problem! 🤣🤣🤣 ⚡ AHHHHH!
Yeah, there are times I set my phone on an ice pack to reduce the temperature while charging.
And it'll melt the ice pretty quick.
Heat loss means you get less and less efficiency of charging. Bit like fuel evaporating in the nozzle while feeling up.
The changing problem can easily be solved.
Just install an extremelypowerful diesel generator in your backyard.
in KSP, I would simply add moar RTGs to make my rover go fast.
Dual 12 cylinder quad turbo diesel generators would probably be required.
Funnily enough you'd get more bang for your buck that way even with the heavy batteries.
I really hope diesel range extendors become an option for EVs again.
@@svr5423 I just always used a reactor from the interstellar extended mod lol
Radiators were a bitch though.
@@Luka_3D I don't think hybrids are good unless you are driving in city traffic the majority of the time. The extra weight at sustained highway speeds, the majority of the time, is most likely a disadvantage.
Regarding the capacity of National Grids to provide enough juice for the EV charging stations the BBC highlighted today that the huge numbers of new Data Centres being installed for AI and other applications will, themselves, need much more electricity in the very near future and this subject is being underestimated much more than providing EV charging.
Power generators take years to be designed and built and if sales of EV’s were to rise hugely, needing more chargers, this alone would cause power shortages but the monstrous amounts of energy the new Data centres use makes EV charging seem like a drop in the ocean.
It seems, however, that EV sales are at their peak now as their drawbacks are becoming known so that extra grid power needed for them is just about sufficient but power cuts are still likely in the future because of the ever more power hungry Data Centres being built.
350Kw flow rates would set fire to your battery packs. They would get so hot they would cook
You would need expensive rare earth based charging cables to stop them melting. Needless to say those mostly don't exist.
@@Withnail1969 Well you could pump up the voltage to reduce the heating, but that introduces a whole raft of other "fun" problems.
IONITY already deploys chargers that are capable to deliver 350 kW of power. But only a few cars can accept that rate of power. Such as those built on the EGMP platform by Hyundai and also Porsche. Cables can be water cooled and cars have cooling systems to protect the battery. My car, an Ioniq 5, can charge from 20% to 80% in 18 minutes using one of these high powered chargers. That would take the cars range up to 225 miles. And I can often take longer than 18 minutes on a comfort break at a service station.
They have 1.4 Mw chargers, it's all about size and conditioning. 200Kwh packs would have no issue charging at 350kw from 10~80% with proper conditioning.
trucks are gonna need 2 1.4Mw chargers to be remotely viable.
@@matthewmenteer5673 the grid cant possibly support them. you dont seem able to grasp that. the capacity is not there.
Beautifully explained Simon. Thank you.
I can pump 30 litres of fuel into my mazda 6 turbo in less than 2 minutes. No range anxiety yet but I'm aware the government is going to do everything in its power to change and control this.
If the fuel hose and nozzle were twice the diameter you could refuel in less than 30 seconds. Not practical but fun to think about.
And you like to speed up climate change.
No one is going to force you into owning an ev. Internal Combustion Engines probably aren't going anywhere if we can figure out bio fuels.
I think EVs are great for 90% of driving. It would be nice to have the option of a small diesel generator that you could put in the trunk for those really long journeys though.
I think this setup would also make bio fuels viable as even though they're expensive, you'd be driving on electricity most of the time anyway.
@@Luka_3D Drive trains with range extender are history for a long time. You drive 100% electric.
@@gerbre1For most people yeah but if you're going offroading it would be nice to have the option to pack a few jerrycans of fuel.
A Chinese battery which can charge in 10 minutes!! Buy one now and charge it at home in your garage today!!.
LTO are safest of lithium type batteries.
Here in South Africa our grid can barely provide basic power to our houses nevermind these stupid cars. Yet they push to have these ridiculous things in the country like its a good thing when it plainly ISNT!!!!
South Africa is installing 120 off-grid charging stations with 480kW charger till September 2025. Electricity comes from nearby solar farms and battery storage systems. The are also planing for trucks.
In many countries like The Netherlands reports are made that new industries and homes with heat pumps are denied access to the grid since it is no capable to handle the power requirements. Moreover the plans to “fix” the issues are just to fix the issues and not about future demands for EVs let alone fast charging……
Analogy… I have 1 small electric fire and I live in a cold house with 7 rooms, [3 bedrooms, lunge, dinning room, bathroom and kitchen.
It takes the fire 1 hr to warm a room,
If I want to sit in another room I have to unplug the fire and move into the other room so that I stay warm as I move about the house.
To heat the house with 1 electric fire and use all of the rooms ‘when they are warm’ it takes 7hrs.
If I want to be free to use any room at anytime instantly and still be warm I need to install a separate electric fire in each room and have them all running at the same time.
So by installing 7 electric fires I can reduce the heating time for the entire house from 7hrs to 1 hr.
[but my electric bill will go up by 7 times because I am now using 7 times the electric power.]
2nd analogy…. All of the houses in my street have gas central heating, the government bans the use of Gas so all of the house must install electric fires in all of their rooms to heat their houses.
This increases the demand on the electric main in the street outside
so now the electric company needs to dig the main low voltage cable up and replace it with a bigger one.
The substation at the end of the road is now not big enough to cope so that needs to be ripped out and upgraded as well.
And the high voltage cables going back to the Primary substation feeding the area needs to be dug up, replaced and upgraded as well]
[It turns out that the entire area is also going all electric]
So now the primary substation feeding the entire neighbourhood needs to be ripped out replaced and upgraded.
[and the 33,000v cables feeding from the primary back to the EHV grid substation need to be dug up, ripped out replaced and upgraded as well]
[it then turns out that entire city is going all electric]
So all of the giant Grid substations that feed the entire city need to be ripped out replaced and upgraded.
[it then turns out that all of the cities and the villages and town between are going all electric]
So now the EHV 132,000v 275,000v and 400,000v power lines going back to the National Power grid need to be reinforced and upgraded.
It then turns out that we don’t have enough power stations, so the national grid need to build more and bigger power stations to feed into the national grid.
…..
No consider that 6 super fast EV charging points use more power than a large village or small town, and calculate the electric that is required again on top.
😳 "why do you have a dozen fishing poles on your bicycle?!?"
... net zero ...
It took me a second to get the joke.
?
You should be on the stage, theres one leaving in an hour.😉
THE ENERGY THAT COMES OUT A BATERRY
HASTO BE PUT NTO A BATTERY
Don't forget losses. Nothing is 100% effecient
A fossil car has 80% heat losses.
@@gerbre1 - and a thermal powerplant has over 50% losses too....
Carnot efficiency hits hard.
Primary energy, on demand whenever convenient has costs.
@@kadmow Yes, a thermal power plant has losses, but renewables are considered to be 100% efficient when computing primary energy.
You are absolutely correct about the levels of innumeracy and illiteracy in Australian society. Most people can’t convert watts to kilowatts, and so on, so are led around like sheep.
How right you are about our education.
the world learned this lesson 120 years ago .. when we started building EVs. Using overengineered batteries for fuel storage was swept aside by the "revolutionary" metal petrol tank. This is why EVs were dumped a century ago. Moving electrons from the source of generation to a sevice station and then to a car is FAR worse for the environment
Remember when they almost banned paper bags to save the environment, now we have micro plastics everywhere because of plastic bags..
No. Ignoring the energy needed to get that fuel to the gas station, it makes more sense for you to burn that fuel in a generator that charges an ev
@@Luka_3D that's what pipelines are for.
@@Bryan-Hensley Yes, but pipelines still require electricity to power the pumps. Refineries need energy to process that fuel and pump jacks also need energy to pump oil out of the ground.
Those are just necessary evils though. The biggest inefficiency is just the engine idling, wasting those last 20~40% of the energy that it could convert into motion.
@@Luka_3D if you are going to factor in all that, you need to study up on how much mining it takes for the copper, cobalt and lithium. Not to mention the environment damage of all that mining, then the human rights thing. How deep do you want to dig?
"fraction of the cost"
just 3 years ago I paid 24p/kWh because "EVs where expensive and you save money on charging!
Just less than 3 years later it's more than 80p/kWh in some places over £1/kWh because transporting electricity from Ukraine is very difficulty during war or whatever nonsense people believed.
Now in diesel car, thank god, I realized that that "extremely cheap to run electric car" actually cost more than 3x to run than diesel car...
I have less than quarter of fuel in tank and that is 180 miles which is MORE miles than fully charged EV I had...
Here is some other MATHS .. To charge at that rate it would REQUIRE about 700 current conventional home solar panels to produce that sort of electricity....
Please make this lunacy end!
700 panels charging overnight, full moon might help?
No sure what maths you are doing, seems a bit off?
@@jacques-michaeloosthuizen1235 Show us why with your calculations to prove why he is off and by how much?
@@Ifitwerks you would never be able to fit that many panels on a house, duh
You could just store multiple days of solar charging into a battery and then charge an ev with that battery though.
I can still fill my 50-ish litre petrol tank from running on empty to full in less than 10 minutes. And I never have to mollycoddle the effing thing to do it.
Taking a lot of liquid from one big reservoir (the tank underground) and pumping it into a smaller reservoir (the fuel tank in one's car) is always going to be faster and more reliable than charging an EV. I am not sure it would ever be safe to be able to charge a battery big enough to run a car in less roughly 10 minutes given the massive amount of energy that would be involved. That's to say nothing of the practicality of the endeavour.
This isn't even a point that the EV advocates should try to argue so much. All tech has pros and cons, it is the mark of a zealot who never concedes that the thing they prefer isn't universally superior.
Unfortunately, you will never find a more rabid, unthinking group of zealots than the Globull Climate Catastrophe Cultists.
You don't know why fossil cars should be replaced do you?
True, nothing will probably beat filling up at a gas station but I can live with 12 minutes. And battery charging has come a long way from when you'd have to charge your phone for hours so I wouldn't outright say they can't make it safe.
@@gerbre1 What's a fossil car? You mean cars that use fossil fuels, surely? Well, I don't think they'll ever be replaced, especially at the uptake rate EVs have now and the shortage of raw materials to make the batteries for them. Google "lithium shortfall for EV battery manufacturing" or a similar search to see for yourself. There is also the small matter of what to do with the batteries at the end of their life. nobody seems to want them. It might have something to do with the small fact they aren't worth anything.
A Tesla Megapack is the size of a shipping container and stores 3.9 megawatt hours. That’s smaller than the fuel storage tanks.
I can attest to that. Worked in the public school system for 35 years. The kids are all princes and princesses.
Power engineer here ...everything you said is true ... charging at 10 minutes will take same power provided to a 180 houae suburb ...and requirecexpensive transformers tapping high voltage lines ....safely will be expensive.40 nrw power plants will be required
Not quite true. The article by Jonathon Leake didn’t explain the benefits of the Shenxing and Shenxing plus batteries correctly. The cost benefits are from reduced reliance on fast charging as driving 280 - 500 km a day can be performed by home and destination Level 1 or 2 charging and less on level 3 and 4 public fast chargers. 1:40
I’m glad you’re pointing this issue out. People probably do think charging quicker is cheaper. That’s a message that needs to be completely understood by everyone. There is no free lunch here. Thanks for your efforts on this.
Good morning from Canada
Hahaha, the frustration is palpable for you Simon! It seems to be a case of "stupid is, as stupid does!" Thanks for setting this rubbish straight, appreciate it mate.
Duhhh! My brain hurts. I should become an EV journalist!
Sorry, you'd fail. Your brain will only hurt if you use it, so that rules you out.
MGUY is on fire today!
The problem is the low energy available, from an ordinary electricity supply. Electricity is not very energy condenced, which is why you can power a phone with electricity but you need fossil fuels to make it.
When fast charging a battery the charging efficiency drops and the cooling requirements go up massively.
Just drape a wet rag on your charging cable.....That's the latest brainstorm from the EVangelists.
(yes hint - every Joule needing cooling is a Joule of wasted energy - plus the cooling cost..)
Once again you've hit the nail square on the head! Charging rates are directly connected to available power supply! It's never going to work! Already we have problems with power supply to the home, add to that the insane amount needed for Charging EVs! Brown outs are going to be way more common!
Now I just need to install a 350 kW home charger and about 800 solar panels on my roof to power it 🤣
Why would you need a 350 kw charger at home?
@@Luka_3D No chance of anything public above 22 kW being placed in my area and current chargers are busy most of the evenings. So to get this 10 minute charge I would have to power it myself. Not that I am going to, because I have neither the gigantic roof nor the offstreet parking to do so.
But my comment was mostly to make a point. 350 kW charging everywhere is not going to happen anytime soon.
@@SolAce-nw2hf Even a 22kw charger seems a bit overkill tbh
A lot of people can deal with 1kw from a 120 socket and most can be served with the upgrade to a nema 240 socket.
At most if you've got like a silverado ev with over 200 kwh of battery capacity, you'd install a 3 phase industrial socket that can supply just shy of 50 kw. But again only if you really can't let it slow charge overnight.
I hear you about charger availability though. Here in europe it's not that bad because there's multiple companies working on building stuff out but in America i can tell the supercharger network being the only reliable provider is being strained pretty hard.
@@Luka_3D If I could charge at home, an 11 kW charger would be fine for charging one car overnight. But in our neighbourhood there is just one public charger that can charge two EVs at 11 kW each or one EV at 22 kW. This means that for those who work during the day have to wait in line. With a 66 kWh charge per EV for example this means waiting 3 or 6 hours to charge 3 to 6 hours as soon as you are the lucky one next in line. This is not great even if I can wait at home. Going further away to a free 22 kW charger would have me waiting there for 3 hours until the 66 kWh is added, so that is simply unacceptable. Something like a 350 kW charger could cut this down to a gas station like experience, but in the Netherlands most regions currently have huge problems. Businesses and new homes sometimes have to wait years before they can be connected to the grid or upgraded to a usable 18 kW connection for a heat pump. EV superchargers guzzling up to 350 kW will make this problem even worse imo.
Didnt I read last month China had developed an invisibility cloak ?
Politicians will be first in the queue.
The Russians have such a thing but it's only a thermal invisibility cloak to protect the troops from night snipers using thermal imaging.
@@robertmcgivern6585 Bankers*
The irony here is that Chinese EVs are unreliable junk that begin to fall apart in the showroom.
Is that the one made out of tofu??
Bugger the basic laws of physics ...we can generate electricity with unicorn farts and wishful thinking!
One of Murphys' Laws - don't play leapfrog with a unicorn ...
And a free heating as well: with 60-100 kW delivered in 10 minutes, everything is going to have a nice resistance that will increase and heat up the immediate environment quite nicely. That will create more points of failures. Whatever happens will happen fast.
Excellent info.
I have a friend working to install charging stations. Insists that 10 cars can each be charged in 17 minutes, 1 car per charging port, although they have a single hook up to the existing grid.
You're hitting on my main complaint with renewable energy sources (solar, wind). Nobody ever does the math. "With just 5% of the land in the US, we can generate 25% of the power." That's a quote from a wind turbine company. So taking up enough space that is the size of Pennsylvania, will power 25% of the US with unreliable power? That's a winning plan for certain. (still need that sarcasm font)
I ran some numbers through Chat GPT and did some math with DOE's numbers just for over the road comercial transportation we'd need atleast the size of Maine in solar.
Problem with all of this is the shear size of the numbers. billion barrels per day, GWe are so large and easy to obscure people don't stop and think what it actually means
@@matthewmenteer5673 And you don't have a roof on your house do you?
@@gerbre1 I do. I'm just at a high enough latitude that solar would never pay back. Plus I rent. Most of USA doesn't have enough solar radiance to make financial sense of rooftop solar. Most older homes also should not be retrofitted with solar. Even with advancements with mppt micro inverters the maintenance costs seems to be rapidly out pacing any energy saving. One can only hope that utilities raise rates so solar owners can feel good about investments into something that raises ground temperatures and ends up almost exclusively in landfills.
I think the best thing you can do sir is leave your house, and move off grid. Just enough solar to charge your phone is all you'd need to get the word out.
@@matthewmenteer5673 I'm living in Northern Germany which is at higher latitude than the US without Alaska. My 4.8 kWp solar installation with 12 panels is not directed to the south but to the east with 16 degrees roof angle. I get around 4000 kWh each year. With south orientation and location in Southern Germany I would produce 5000 kWh. I need 1600 kWh in the house with heat pump excluded which is new. And I can even charge my car from April to October to a big part from the roof. I use 40-50% of the generated power myself. I don't have battery storage except for the EV. With battery storage I could reach 70%. If I could I would have more modules but my roof is small. Believe me, there is enough solar radiance in the US without Alaska. In the US electricity prices are low so you can't save that much money. And the prices for a solar installation are high. Those are the two problems. My PV installation pays off after 10-12 years. Right now the prices for solar panels are really cheap.
@@gerbre1 Good on you but your rate of metered electricity is far higher than the typical USA electricity.
I do have a house where pay back for solar panels is about 4 years its near the equator and because of high utility rates and cheap labor it makes sense fiscally...
In the midwest, in the middle of the USA it takes over 20 years for payback with typical subsidies. We also get storms that drop golf ball sized hail atleast 2x a decade which if it doesn't hurt the solar panels can easily ruin the shingles on a roof shared with solar. Roofs also typically last only 20 years.
The least risky way to do solar in the usa is to lease them... but its at a higher cost for electricity. The only way you can come out ahead is if utilities raise rates.
Typical rates are around .08~.12usd/kwh unless you're on the coasts.
Solar makes sense in many places. Rooftop solar in a majority of the USA makes very little sense unless you're trying to be self sufficient during a grid down event.
If pay back was 10~12 years, solar panels would be prolific across the whole USA, but its not. Interest rates are also high, and a near plurality of people rent.
For homes, investing in more insulation or reducing air leakage is a much better use of money for energy savings.
we are off-lineing most of our legacy power plants and replacing them only with solar and wind. so pretty soon, we might be in a spot when pay back on solar is great.
360Kw on a 230v supply means a current of about 1,535 amps. Twice that in the US where the voltage is only 110-120v. Good luck with getting that down your domestic supply feed.
Why would you ever want a domestic 350kw charger lol
Nevermind up to 30% charging power lost to cable and battery resistance, plus heat losses. BTW dont know about you blokes but I'm still waiting for a long lasting cell phone battery that doesn't have built-in annoyance.
The first minute of your video was beautifully stated.
The faster the charging, the higher the power, the faster the battery degradation, the higher the risk of getting electrocuted, the higher the risk of fire. You wouldn't want to be anywhere near the ev or even charging cable while it is charging.
To add 600 miles of range in 10 minutes would require around 1 megawatt of output from the charger! Good luck keeping the cables and connections cool, maybe draping a wet towel over the handle will help?
Nobody needs 600 miles in 10 minutes. 300 miles in 20 minutes is enough. It's more important to find a free and working charger.
@@gerbre1 I agree that having reliable access to a charger that can add 300 miles in 20 minutes is good enough, but the claim is this battery can provide 600 miles of range and charge in 10 minutes.
@@steveallen1340 Yes 10 minutes can be nice sometimes. I prefer 20 minutes and even that can be stressful sometimes, because I‘m not ready when the car already is. At superchargers you have to pay extra when blocking them. With 10 minutes there is nearly nothing you can do except for waiting in the car.
I was testing some welding equipment that runs at around 600 Amps theoretical maximum current. At such high current every tiny bit of resistance such as between plug and socket becomes a heater. The heat generation is insane and melts plastic handles and has to be manned at all times in case of smoke! Its not something that untrained public should be using. I had a fire extinguisher at the ready.
You can reduce the amperage by increasing the voltage though
A good explanation. Thank you. Glenn
Engineer here: i know exactly what you are saying so well there, the energy concepts and formulas are one of the first things we learn, so that we better understand how this World functions, when ENERGY is concerned; it is actually not difficult to grasp at all,but still, there are folks spending money on gadgets to run their cars on water; on water,imagine that!!! water is BURNED HYDROGEN, no energy left there, Z E R O !!! but we ALL know that, we ALL know that water is NOT FOOD, you cannot EAT water and live, it has ZERO calories, you cannot live on water, a car can't either.
You are doing a big favor to lots of people, by producing truly natural videos like this, people will tend to understand the natural energy concepts better and be able to ignore the many bogus claims;
As far as Cordless EVs are concerned, i keep saying this, the best batteries today, have only 200 to 300 Watt-hours of energy per Kg, not much, while diesel or gasoline have around 10000 wh/kg, 30 times more; so, we'll never see mainstream planes, ships, trains, or trucks (the empty weight,the tare,of an 18 wheeler would be so huge due to the tons of batteries it needs to carry to run itself, that not much room would be left for the payload, thus, no money to be made there).
- allowing for inefficiency of ICE systems, 2.5-3kw per kg for battery cells is all we need (specific energy density)- yep "just" an order of magnitude better...
Thankyou for your easy to understand explanation. In America they use 110volts which means the amperage wattage is doubled... Put your hand on the electric kettle lead and it'll be warm, use it again & it'll begin to get hot
Truths in all aspects 👌
You are correct in everything you saying
Well put over 👍
So basically they invented what amounts to an Olympic sized swimming pool but expect it to be filled instantly with a garden hose.
You can increase the size of the hose though
As a Tesla owner who driving almost exclusively on highways, I can say that there is no deal braking in 10 minutes charging. What I would like to see:
1) Battery with flat charging curve, Tesla Model Y charges like 0-50% in about 10 minutes, then 20 minutes for 50-80% of charge, and then twice as whole charging before till 99%. I would be more than happy if I can charge to 80% in 13-15 minutes (i.e. so it sustain 200+kw charging for longer).
2) Infrastructure is somewhat a problem, when there are fast (200kw) chargers each 50-100km - there is no issue, you just charge when you go to WC or eating. Ensuring there are fast chargers everywhere with the infrastructure (to snack, go to WC and buy som drink) will make much more difference than 500kw charging which will be probably only in 5 places. When doing a break you barely can go to WC and order something under 10 minutes, even worse if traveling with the family. Frankly, even couple of 100kw chargers on each fuel station will be a life saver, much more than 1000kw charger that charges in 5 minutes in a few places in California and Beijing
Along my street in West London, every house has a drive with mostly 1 or 2 cars on. The power cable along the street is 3 phase 400 amps, and each phase serves 10 houses. so everyone together can continuously draw 40 amps. With the move to heat pumps and electric cars there doesn't appear to be enough capacity, A domestic heat pump consumes 2 to 4 Kw (8 to 16 Amps) leaving 32 to 24 amps for cooking, other domestic use and car charging. As i understand it, smart meters speak to car chargers to ensure that the total load is limited, So if your car doesn't get a full charge hard luck.
Aren’t we putting 100% tariffs on Chinese EV products? We’ll never see these anyway.
I have enough education to know that your calculations are correct. Also enough to be really grateful that I am old enough to be dead by 2035.
That is the problem. Us, older eng generation who knows are retiring, fading away. What is left, bunch of idiots specialised in woke science, bitcoin finance...
OK not my kids, eng and md but so few ofcthem.
Thank you for your bravery to call things out for what they are.
Keep up the great work, thanks.
Copper loss I2R. Double the amps = 4 times the charging losses. Quadrable the amps = 16 times the charging losses.
Nice top!!
Please keep telling the truth, nice to hear your knowledge and sense. The amazing battery will never arrive its simple physics. Most people don't even understand Ohms law ,God help us.
Now we all can just stop slamming EVs.Wrong, KEEP IT UP MGUY!
Do you think making a battery last more than 3 years is high in a priority list, most get disposed of by then, no longer the first owner’s problem, they have quick acceleration apparently, why not use it to the maximum, after all, getting another one soon enough.
Mine is 5 years old and still running like new 😂