I truly believe that you need some sort of aggressive iron cross strategy to win consistently because you can never tell the box numbers are hot or cold. I really appreciate the fact that you play down the don’t pass win on the 3 to prove the point of the strategy. Most people would make a big deal on that win to make the strategy look good. All strategies work until they don’t because of the sequence of the dice. The key is to find one that has a better chance on any given day. Thanks for the video.
Yeah, I would much rather have won on the Don't pass instead of the Hard 6 as well. I guess that proves that sometimes a hedge can work out, but if the 7 had come there instead, it would have proven the "why" behind building up all of those odds from the wins. The iron cross can only win if you're aggressive with it early, I believe that sincerely. Thanks for watching!
Thank you very much! I enjoy digging into different options with these things. And of course, since I filmed that one, I've already got some more and better options for it. (Nice Win in Jeff's Challenge, BTW)
I was looking for some strategies for my next battle strategy series which will pit Darkside/Lightside-heavy Hybrid strategies against each and this popped up. I love this video-it introduced me to playing the horn! Thanks, John!
Start with $100 in the don’t. If you make past the come out (hedge it), you can include the most oft rolled number in the cross. You’ll have to play $15 on the field most places in Vegas.
I've considered that for sure. More likely as a $25 DP with a big lay, and then removing the lay once the strategy gets you to foundation. Short term hedging is a preference for me.
Now I'm curious. So long as we're getting out of the hand quickly and not wasting those field wins, I'm always looking for more creative ways to play these things.
I love finding ways to transition my play. Or at least knowing where those opportunities are. Welcome aboard! We do a daily live show. Hope to see there
love the strategy, although the max odds on a $50 don't pass would be $300 not $180 on a point 6 (assuming a 3x/4x/5x odds), 6x the bet. 300 / 6:5 payout = 250 + 50 don't pass pay = total 300 for a 7 out.
I love how far you have come. You really have a great grasp on the game. Honestly so few "Craps Players" really have a true understanding of how to win the game.
I have moved away from the horn and into the C&E. Easier on the dealers, so it doesn't slow the game down. Pays the same when you play the horn the way you do, however, you don't lose as much when it hits (you have less losers). Take your 6 bucks and put $2 on the E and $4 on the C.
@@Alex-dk4px E pays 15-1 same as the horn. C pays 7-1 roughly half the horn but you have twice as much on it so the same. When you hit a horn number with the horn bet, you have 1 winner and 3 losers. When you hit a horn number with a C&E you have 1 winner and 1 loser. The loser is an extra unit, however, you still don't lose 3 units. It is much quicker for the dealers to pay out. The game can come to a crawl (or stop) when they have to pay multiple people with horn bets.
Great video John. I personally dont like the base iron cross at all....I do like the press mentality and the parlay/reinvest of the field wins....very strategic and thoughtful...many ways to reinvest the field...definitely play to the feel of the table. You are crushing it man!
The base Iron Cross is a long term loser. You have to have a plan to get out of it quick and onto bigger and better things ... OR ... like I'm doing here, make better use of your wins. Thanks!
And btw. The horn is hot also. U can't turn ur horn bet off. I Kno u Kno this. For people who don't know how to play. Every time I put money n the horn and the field. The roll counts every time.
Very true. I used to wrestle with this a lot, but honestly, if you're not playing the line, the comeout is of no consequence to you, unless you literally want to breathe for a minute and just unplug for a roll or two. But that's a potential wasted roll for you
You can go darkside for sure. Or you can hyper target the field to preaching the place bets. Get out of the field soon as possible! Glad you like it. Good luck
Think of the horn in chunks. 5 horn losses and you're upside down. The field you can catch a little bit of a ride on it and if you do a progression, you can bank up on it. I need to keep tracking it.
@@ProCraps granted, the same on the field 5 losses your out those bets. if you are playing the horn from your bankroll, but if your playing the horn from wins. the box numbers pays horn plus profit. horn pays (15 or 30) to 1. field pays 1:1. the horn has the ability to win back loss not guaranteed due to house edge & the house edge on the field is far greater. don't get me wrong. the field can be a well placed bet. the field has a higher cost because $5 wins 5, $3 horn is 1 on the 2,3,12. the 2&12 win 30-2 is $28. the 3 wins 15-2 is $13 . the 5 losses here is $15 on the field those 5 losses is $25
Glad you enjoyed! I'm not a huge fan of the Iron Cross, but when I play it, this is how I go. I think that full pressing those box numbers 3x and moving the field to the DC is the power move here.
John, I love this strategy when I shoot. I throw a 2V set and hit outside and horn numbers. I have lost on my long rolls playing 44 inside and started winning consistently when i changed to Iron cross. I still play 44 inside on shooters I trust. The field isn't a bad bet if you can find a 3x pay on 12.
That ... as well as using an even more aggressive progression in the field, like a 1-3-2 or something. Catch 3 in a row to win 6 units is a good thing. That'll pay for your 4, 9, 10 in one hit.
Definitely not. I'm not a fan of Martingale's in any case, but especially the field. I've seen 10+ no-fields in a row more times than I care to count. That's just to volatile for the reward. A ladder with a parlay, but capped at 5 levels is about as far as I'd go there.
I really like this strategy John. To me, the best part is 3x on the box versus the field. The second best part, is the adaptation of your ding DC and/or the DP. Lastly, the parlay of the field is a monster move that can make up ground quick. Nicely engineered strategy!
Well I did a live practice last night and got hammered! But I threw 7 PS0 which is more than any strategy should be asked to survive. It fought back from zero twice to show a 50%?loss. Happy with that. Will keep at it Thanks, Chris
So I’ve just run across this video after watching some other craps videos that promote the cross and it’s variants! When I learned to play craps decades ago the very best bets on the table were the pass, come, don’t pass, and don’t come but only if you use full odds. If the dice are with you I have doubled and tripled my initial buy in short order. If the dice are not with you it doesn’t matter what your playing. It seems like you are trying to get your bets covered and play with the house’s money. That fine but your not making money unless your taking it off the table. The table swings and if you stay long enough it will bite you. At least that’s the way it used to be, what changed?
Nothing's really changed, but people like to have some choice in their game. I think that the Iron Cross gives folks a sense of control and every roll is a payout for them, even if diminished. This game has 1,000 ways to approach it, which makes both amazing and highly dangerous. I've talked ad nauseum about playing with "house money" and the dangers of thinking that and not realizing that it's yours.
Love the strat! If you can please include starting bank roll and show progression on a start of each live roll just so we can get the idea just a little more! Thanks!!
would this be at the top of your list of plays? If not what is your preferred method? I think transitioning to the don't pass, after a point has been made, is the best--the longer the roll the more likely you'll see the 7
This is not my go-to. If I'm really pre-disposed to play right side, I might start here and then transition it into the GOAT or the 4-10 Bank Street strategy, but I don't like staying with a continuous field like that.
I like this straegy! Going black acknowledges a 7 will be coming along. I think going to the dont pass over the dont come is a wiser move: if for some reason the shoot drags on you stand to lose the dont's whereas the don't pass keeps getting larger--for the eneviable. I didn't quite understand why your max odds on the don't is 180. What multiples of odds are you assuming? Wouldn't a 5 times odds table allow you to back to 200, or perhaps 225 if you're assuming correct odds for the 6 or the 8?
I always go back and forth on DP odds vs DC. I like flat bet payouts vs odds. And I like not having 1 number crush me. But yeah, the long roll just scoops all the DC bets up
Love this to mix things up. JC, how often do you play this strategy or is this to get a quick bump to get the bankroll going? I could see doing this right after a 7-out. Hmm if not waiting until right after a 7, maybe I would hop the 7s instead of the 3 & Yo.
That's what the Hawaiian Craps Shooters and Craps Hawaii call the "EZ" version of the Iron Cross. It works, but remember that on every single Hop Bet, you're donating that money if you don't get the hit. So it can be a real bleed.
I just happened upon this now. The field gives you coverage of horn numbers and 4,9,10. Why not take that $16 and spread onto those box numbers and horn immediately for $34 or so since payouts are about the same? Are you just trying to avoid more at risk initially? Also what is gained by waiting for the point to be established since the cross is all non 7 numbers? On some of your initial rolls the field would have won big.
For me, the thought process is using the field to feed the box numbers (pretty much never collect) and then using the horn and pressed or two-fer box wins to feed my rack.
@@ProCraps many people use inside out to feed outside box number initial bets. Field is nice but one roll bet that needs replenishment (as does horn). Just probing. Thanks.
I like this a LOT, but what I would do differently is I would not put up the $6 horn bets and instead of pressing immediately, I would collect FIRST and then press every 2nd hit of BOTH whatever box number hit of the 5,6, or 8, and then double-up the field bet on the 2nd win in a row, and then regress back the field bet to $10 if it won for the 3rd time in a row. However, I would just continue collecting and pressing every time an Iron Cross box number hit and ONLY keep pressing THAT number that keeps hitting, and NOT spread to the other 2 remaining Iron Cross numbers, so that when one of those numbers hits that can produce a win of at LEAST $200, then I will just regress back to the original $100 Iron Cross with that 3 to 1 ratio and just repeat that process but this time, just keep on collecting and pressing with ALL gas NO brakes until the seven shows up! This way you already GUARANTEED yourself that $100 profir and can now KICK ASS!!!
You should checkout the Red Cross Strategy and see what you think of that version. I like it a LOT better. It actually went 18-2 on our daily paycheck show. Easily the top performer
My experience with craps is that MOST people SUCK and they are RANDOM shooters and they 7-out VERY quickly, so I would rather just use the Iron-cross for just 2-3 rolls MAX PER person and then when it comes to YOUR turn to shoot, you can invest MORE on yourself and keep up the Iron-cross longer - depending on how confident you are with your rolls - and then take it down or call it OFF when you fell it's appropriate and then just try to make your point of if you 7-out, just make sure that you make MORE money when that happens, compared to how much you have invested on your Pass line bet and odds bet!
Very nice John I like this one a lot but like you said you don’t wanna stay in it too long. You definitely want to get out and use your winnings although it’s very tempting to just stay there because it seems like a money maker.It worked out good for me after I practiced it on my homemade table. I’m still playing but I’m up about $355. I’m playing the don’t pass for $25 and your headless horseman with a couple of extra don’t come bets. When the point was 10 I put $100Only because I’m ahead and the odds were good the seven came and won another $50.All in all I really like this strategy thank you much appreciated! Kindest regards dan
I think there’s still work to be done with it. But I like this as a starting point for sure. It is tempting to stay. But if you watch my practice session you’ll see that when I survive the early 7 … 3 hits and down to a $64 across bet is prett easy
Great strategy. I like the 2 hit parley in the field. You had a couple of math errors I think. No one's an Einstein 😅. You woulda done great if you worked the horn bets coming out
Check out the Crossbow V2 that I just did over @casinogamingtv ... I do a daily paycheck there, and I just ran 5 straight days and about and about 10 sessions with an upgraded version of this. Super aggressive and very very profitable.
Honestly, the $66 permanent press works great on bubble craps, but scaled way back to $1 bets instead of $15 bets. With a $100 or $200 bankroll - $1 on each of the 5, 6, 8, 9 Every win, press them each $1 It'll cost you $3 additional to make the first press, $2 additional the 2nd, and then after that, all of your presses are paid for by profits After your 3rd hit in profit, you'll have doubled your investment. If you ever 7 out, start all your bets over from where you left off.
It's $1 on the 2, $1 on the 12, and $2 each on the 3 and 11. Each of those pays $30 minus the others. So, for example: 2 = $30 win minus the $2 on the 3, $1 on the 12 and the $2 on the 11, so the net is $25 I only do this 3 times or so. Any more and you bleed too much but it's nice when you double up on this with the field.
Ah ... missed it while talking. Not sure if it's clear, but these are filmed live and cut from a live stream, so mistakes are absolutely part of the mix. Thanks for catching it!
25 if you hit you rack $25 if not you move to next bet 25 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 25 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 35 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 45 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 60 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 80 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 110 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 145 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 195 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 260 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 345 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 460 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 615 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet 825 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not you have had a bad day… come back tomorrow and do it again! Would love to see you give it a try The plan is to win $500 and walk way call that a session, do that 2 or 3 times a day and vacation is paid for.
@@Dr_S I'm on it ... I did a series a while back on these betting progressions and worked through the stern 2.0 (and actually lost my whole bankroll while filming!). Open to giving it a shot.
If I can find a table that can last 3 rolls I would be a millionaire. It’s always 2nd roll PSO… now your down $110, now u need a 6 roll to recoup. Another PSO on 2-6 rolls you need 10 roll shooter to break even. U start doing don’t pass iron cross…with $60 don’t pass.
You get them ... a good strategy is strong early (survives and profits in rolls 1, 2, 3 no matter what) and can profit in the long term as well. This one has a ton of 7 volatility, but knowingly so. I purposefully didn't add a Don't Pass component to this to keep it as a high earning potential play, but as you point out, there's a good argument to be made for it.
Nice strat. A few tweaks here and there and it would be golden. It just takes too many hits to be a good phase 1 strategy. Maybe start with a strong 2-3 hit regression strat and transition into this as phase two with just a little less aggression so you can rack a little on each hit. Maybe a half parlay on the field, instead of pressing the 5 with the 9 after a $50 6/8 win use the extra $25 and a nickel from your rack to grab the 4/10 one hit early then start your butterburg/dc transition. Just my thoughts. Keep doing you! Love it!
@@ProCraps I always try to design strategies for the worst case scenario with plenty of upside opportunities for the good times. Nothing pisses me off more than having a plan and it going to crap as soon as I get to the table. It happens though, so we have to use that and think of ways to counteract or even profit from them, and I’m not really talking about hedging.
Hey, Bud. Wats Krak'n. U Kno the field is always on. Right. U Kno there is no off or on n the field. That money n the field is always live. Puck off or on.
Yup. Often in my videos, I'll set my bets out while the puck is off mainly as a time saver. It can be confusing on bets like the field or the horn where they're always on, but that's the reason I do that. Need to get better at calling that out. Thanks!
The house edge will eat you up over time. In the very short term, you'll run into it of course, as it's there in every bet. but it's so much worse when you continue to feed it. That's why I only take 3 cracks at the horn, and after any 3 hits on field or box numbers I'm out of the field and into other moves.
For this one, it takes $106 + an additional $12 to have enough to play this on one shooter. Generally, we recommend you bring enough to last you in the worst case of 10 shooters going with an immediate 7 out. So, that would mean a minimum of $1180 to work this at this level in the casino. I did this at a $10 table, so the bets were $10 in the field and $25/$30/$30 on the 5, 6, and 8 If you can find a $5 table, you can cut that all in half and go with $5 in the field and $15/$18/$18 on the 5, 6, 8 and probably just do a $2 any craps bet. This way it costs $57 to do it per shooter, so $570 or $600 buy-in If you want to go nuts and run this at a higher level, you could work this with $25 in the field and $75/$90/$90 on the 5, 6, 8, and $12 for the horn (times 3), so that would be $291, so you'd need around $3k at that level. If you have $3k to buy in with, there's better strategies to play that can take more advantage of those deep pockets. Hope that helps!
@@ProCraps Yea. Every craps table I’ve played, the field is always on, regardless of the puck. Even if it’s not part of your intended flow, it’s still an effect to have the field active on a come out roll, for the strat.
@@traemcpherson7266 one of the things I often do in practice is to set up all of my bets ahead of time and then just go with the puck. Time saver. But not clear for the viewer
I Think you have been watching some Hawaiian's play craps??? Building your 4,9,10 is were you move to first because it's your best option. You will get paid in two places if or when they hit. Your 3 to 1 ratio is spot on but add into your Crossbow keep the ratio until you / who ever is rolling 7 out. Example 60 to 20, 90 to 30 120 to 40 and so on..........
I've tried it that way, but I'm not looking to double up on field wins. In fact, I'm looking to get out of the field as fast as possible. In reality, the Crossbow should be a 3 or 4 hit max strategy. Build up the 5, 6, 8 maybe grab a field parlay and then transition right out of it. After a hit on a built-up 5, 6, or 8, then I'll spread out, but I really look at this as a short term play. That field bleed is real unless you parlay (and hit) it
Just ran the numbers and this is actually a worse strategy than Iron Cross. The extra expense of the horn bet is actually just concentrating the win potential of the Field bet into the rarer rolls. This causes the 4, 9, and 10 to perform about 2.6x WORSE in exchange for a 13% chance to roll a 2 or 12. But here's the catch: You need to roll 2 or 12 at least 4 times to break even the whole bet. That's 4 times BEFORE THE 7 COMES OUT which is 1:6 times. Basically, you need to roll 5, 6, 8, 2, or 12 at least 3 - 4 times per 6 rolls to break even the whole bet. With these rates, this betting strategy requires about 7 successful rolls to break even the whole bet, but the 7 shows up every 6 rolls. With the original iron cross allowing the fields full potential, it requires about 5 successful rolls to break even the whole bet. A 5/9 strat can break even in 3 - 4 successful rolls and a general 5x better return rate
The whole point of those horns is to hit a home run if you catch one. The real difference here is that I’m being more aggressive with the 5,6,8 and reinventing the field in better ways. The 3:1 ratio gets you out of the hand in 4 rolls, not 8
Like the strategy. But it has flaws. You need to work the field on come out. Any win in field move profit to same box number rolled instead of parlay. Your losing out on money that way.
Let's be honest ... the Iron Cross is itself a fatally flawed strategy no matter what we do to it. I think, as you point out here, that the key to making it suck less is to make the field wins work for you. Whether it's a parlay, grabbing box numbers, or moving to the DC, you have to reinvest those wins smartly or you'll bleed to death.
99% of the time, absolutely. Just chucking $4 bucks out there at random is foolish. When you use it for a very limited number of times as part of a gap filler in a strategy, it’s still a terrible bet. But you just a little bit better about it ;)
It's not great. But this strategy uses it only in the short term to get us to a point where we're playing something else entirely. The goal is not to waste rolls on the way to a new foundation. There's some tweaks there to be made for sure.
I place $10 on the 5 and $12 on the 6 and 8 and then place $7 in the field. I only allow two rolls on each dice shooter. This crap system has made me more money consistently than any other crap system that I played. I only play until I make $75 or $100 and then leave the casino for the day.
There's no "fixing" the Iron Cross. It's a bad strategy. But I get why people love it. I think the point of this video is to hammer in 2 points: 1. Use a 3:1 ratio box to field 2. Use the field wins to press and grow the box That's it. Never collect the field and pray for a good roll
I truly believe that you need some sort of aggressive iron cross strategy to win consistently because you can never tell the box numbers are hot or cold. I really appreciate the fact that you play down the don’t pass win on the 3 to prove the point of the strategy. Most people would make a big deal on that win to make the strategy look good. All strategies work until they don’t because of the sequence of the dice. The key is to find one that has a better chance on any given day. Thanks for the video.
Yeah, I would much rather have won on the Don't pass instead of the Hard 6 as well. I guess that proves that sometimes a hedge can work out, but if the 7 had come there instead, it would have proven the "why" behind building up all of those odds from the wins.
The iron cross can only win if you're aggressive with it early, I believe that sincerely.
Thanks for watching!
This is fascinating, and certainly has my mind spinning. I hadn't used the horn with my iron crosses before. Thank you.
It's an interesting twist on it. Doesn't always work, but those double payments are nice when they come.
I prefer the, “Longbow”. Thanks for your concerned communication for the bread and butter craps roller community! Making all the rolls your friends!
Wow John. Just wow. Very well thought out and superbly explained. Great vid bud. 👌
Thank you very much! I enjoy digging into different options with these things. And of course, since I filmed that one, I've already got some more and better options for it.
(Nice Win in Jeff's Challenge, BTW)
@@ProCraps let's see the other options. Thanks on the 15 roll comment. Was definitely a great run
Very well explained. Thanks for putting that video together John.
Glad it was helpful!
I was looking for some strategies for my next battle strategy series which will pit Darkside/Lightside-heavy Hybrid strategies against each and this popped up. I love this video-it introduced me to playing the horn! Thanks, John!
The horn bets kinda suck, unless you use them tactically like this.
@@ProCraps Funny, I really only play a C&E at the casino on Come out rolls now.
Beautiful. I could have used this last month.
Going to keep on tweaking it. I'm still not a huge Iron Cross fan, but you gotta be aggressive with it if you do play it.
Start with $100 in the don’t. If you make past the come out (hedge it), you can include the most oft rolled number in the cross. You’ll have to play $15 on the field most places in Vegas.
I've considered that for sure. More likely as a $25 DP with a big lay, and then removing the lay once the strategy gets you to foundation. Short term hedging is a preference for me.
Thank you John, this triggered an idea in my head on a way to play the Iron cross
Now I'm curious.
So long as we're getting out of the hand quickly and not wasting those field wins, I'm always looking for more creative ways to play these things.
@@ProCraps I'm going to roll it out, and really not sure how fast we can get out with my thought, but im gonna find out lol
John, Just stumbled across you channel. Great explanation! Very interesting strategy. I can't wait to roll it out here at home.Thanks
Welcome aboard! I go live every morning at 8am pacific. Hop on in, the chat's pretty active. Would love to hear how it did for you.
Moving into the don't come @14:19 Nice! Just subscribed
I love finding ways to transition my play. Or at least knowing where those opportunities are. Welcome aboard! We do a daily live show. Hope to see there
love the strategy, although the max odds on a $50 don't pass would be $300 not $180 on a point 6 (assuming a 3x/4x/5x odds), 6x the bet. 300 / 6:5 payout = 250 + 50 don't pass pay = total 300 for a 7 out.
I love how far you have come. You really have a great grasp on the game. Honestly so few "Craps Players" really have a true understanding of how to win the game.
That's pretty high praise, Jacob! Thank you.
I have moved away from the horn and into the C&E. Easier on the dealers, so it doesn't slow the game down. Pays the same when you play the horn the way you do, however, you don't lose as much when it hits (you have less losers). Take your 6 bucks and put $2 on the E and $4 on the C.
Could you explain the math on this? Newbie here. I thought that the payouts are only 3:1 and 7:1. I’m sure I’m missing something
@@Alex-dk4px E pays 15-1 same as the horn. C pays 7-1 roughly half the horn but you have twice as much on it so the same. When you hit a horn number with the horn bet, you have 1 winner and 3 losers. When you hit a horn number with a C&E you have 1 winner and 1 loser. The loser is an extra unit, however, you still don't lose 3 units. It is much quicker for the dealers to pay out. The game can come to a crawl (or stop) when they have to pay multiple people with horn bets.
Hit & Go per round, before the Dragon comes out..✍🏻
Great video John. I personally dont like the base iron cross at all....I do like the press mentality and the parlay/reinvest of the field wins....very strategic and thoughtful...many ways to reinvest the field...definitely play to the feel of the table. You are crushing it man!
The base Iron Cross is a long term loser. You have to have a plan to get out of it quick and onto bigger and better things ... OR ... like I'm doing here, make better use of your wins. Thanks!
And btw. The horn is hot also. U can't turn ur horn bet off. I Kno u Kno this. For people who don't know how to play. Every time I put money n the horn and the field. The roll counts every time.
If your playing a Cross with out a dont, you may as well be working, because it doesnt matter which roll it is, you lose the same way
Very true. I used to wrestle with this a lot, but honestly, if you're not playing the line, the comeout is of no consequence to you, unless you literally want to breathe for a minute and just unplug for a roll or two. But that's a potential wasted roll for you
Thanks for the crossbow. I do like the transition to the dark side. Recommended by Color Up.
You can go darkside for sure. Or you can hyper target the field to preaching the place bets. Get out of the field soon as possible!
Glad you like it. Good luck
You should try it. With the don’t pass so even big red comes its not a bummer
AZ is a proponent of using the horn over the field because the horn costs less and wins more vs field only 1:1
Think of the horn in chunks. 5 horn losses and you're upside down. The field you can catch a little bit of a ride on it and if you do a progression, you can bank up on it. I need to keep tracking it.
@@ProCraps granted, the same on the field 5 losses your out those bets. if you are playing the horn from your bankroll, but if your playing the horn from wins. the box numbers pays horn plus profit. horn pays (15 or 30) to 1. field pays 1:1. the horn has the ability to win back loss not guaranteed due to house edge & the house edge on the field is far greater. don't get me wrong. the field can be a well placed bet. the field has a higher cost because $5 wins 5, $3 horn is 1 on the 2,3,12. the 2&12 win 30-2 is $28. the 3 wins 15-2 is $13 . the 5 losses here is $15 on the field those 5 losses is $25
Same betting the field after a double hit and hitting again nets 30 not 20. (11:30)
Thanks! Going too fast bites me more often than I care to admit…
Really Enjoyed This Strategy! Big Fan Of The Iron Cross ✝️
Glad you enjoyed! I'm not a huge fan of the Iron Cross, but when I play it, this is how I go. I think that full pressing those box numbers 3x and moving the field to the DC is the power move here.
John, I love this strategy when I shoot. I throw a 2V set and hit outside and horn numbers. I have lost on my long rolls playing 44 inside and started winning consistently when i changed to Iron cross. I still play 44 inside on shooters I trust. The field isn't a bad bet if you can find a 3x pay on 12.
That ... as well as using an even more aggressive progression in the field, like a 1-3-2 or something. Catch 3 in a row to win 6 units is a good thing. That'll pay for your 4, 9, 10 in one hit.
Have you considered implementing the Martindale system with the Field as you play with the cross bow strategy?
Definitely not. I'm not a fan of Martingale's in any case, but especially the field. I've seen 10+ no-fields in a row more times than I care to count. That's just to volatile for the reward.
A ladder with a parlay, but capped at 5 levels is about as far as I'd go there.
started using chip spacers to space out my bankroll . love it , dealers say "hey how did you get those. did you take from blackjack table "
That's awesome. Now that I have my custom ones, I get less questions like that, but yes, these are actually also good conversation starters.
I really like this strategy John. To me, the best part is 3x on the box versus the field. The second best part, is the adaptation of your ding DC and/or the DP. Lastly, the parlay of the field is a monster move that can make up ground quick. Nicely engineered strategy!
Well I did a live practice last night and got hammered! But I threw 7 PS0 which is more than any strategy should be asked to survive. It fought back from zero twice to show a 50%?loss. Happy with that. Will keep at it
Thanks, Chris
@@ProCraps sounds like the DP might help with those PSO’s.
So I’ve just run across this video after watching some other craps videos that promote the cross and it’s variants! When I learned to play craps decades ago the very best bets on the table were the pass, come, don’t pass, and don’t come but only if you use full odds. If the dice are with you I have doubled and tripled my initial buy in short order. If the dice are not with you it doesn’t matter what your playing. It seems like you are trying to get your bets covered and play with the house’s money. That fine but your not making money unless your taking it off the table. The table swings and if you stay long enough it will bite you. At least that’s the way it used to be, what changed?
Nothing's really changed, but people like to have some choice in their game. I think that the Iron Cross gives folks a sense of control and every roll is a payout for them, even if diminished.
This game has 1,000 ways to approach it, which makes both amazing and highly dangerous.
I've talked ad nauseum about playing with "house money" and the dangers of thinking that and not realizing that it's yours.
Love the strat! If you can please include starting bank roll and show progression on a start of each live roll just so we can get the idea just a little more! Thanks!!
For sure. I'll be doing some more live rolls of this in a few night time live episodes coming up so that we can see all of the options at work.
would this be at the top of your list of plays? If not what is your preferred method? I think transitioning to the don't pass, after a point has been made, is the best--the longer the roll the more likely you'll see the 7
This is not my go-to. If I'm really pre-disposed to play right side, I might start here and then transition it into the GOAT or the 4-10 Bank Street strategy, but I don't like staying with a continuous field like that.
going try out crossbow ,looks good and its easy , do you think $2or $3 c/e and parlay to horn it hits
(keeps cost down if does not hit)
We're thinking $2 on the E and $4 on the C.
11 would pay $26 ($30 - the $4 on the C)
2, 3, 12 would pay $28 ($30 - the $2 on the 11)
I like this straegy! Going black acknowledges a 7 will be coming along. I think going to the dont pass over the dont come is a wiser move: if for some reason the shoot drags on you stand to lose the dont's whereas the don't pass keeps getting larger--for the eneviable. I didn't quite understand why your max odds on the don't is 180. What multiples of odds are you assuming? Wouldn't a 5 times odds table allow you to back to 200, or perhaps 225 if you're assuming correct odds for the 6 or the 8?
I always go back and forth on DP odds vs DC. I like flat bet payouts vs odds. And I like not having 1 number crush me. But yeah, the long roll just scoops all the DC bets up
Do field bets follow the puck or are they always on?
They are always on.
Love this to mix things up. JC, how often do you play this strategy or is this to get a quick bump to get the bankroll going? I could see doing this right after a 7-out. Hmm if not waiting until right after a 7, maybe I would hop the 7s instead of the 3 & Yo.
I have done this on bubble craps or if I’m already ahead. But not so much as a go to out the door.
Love the strategy, what if instead of investing 25 on 5 I do $6 on any five? it will be a lower investment of total 81 instead of 101
That's what the Hawaiian Craps Shooters and Craps Hawaii call the "EZ" version of the Iron Cross. It works, but remember that on every single Hop Bet, you're donating that money if you don't get the hit. So it can be a real bleed.
@@ProCraps Thank you! ah yes you are right. I saw that with HCS.
I just happened upon this now. The field gives you coverage of horn numbers and 4,9,10. Why not take that $16 and spread onto those box numbers and horn immediately for $34 or so since payouts are about the same? Are you just trying to avoid more at risk initially? Also what is gained by waiting for the point to be established since the cross is all non 7 numbers? On some of your initial rolls the field would have won big.
For me, the thought process is using the field to feed the box numbers (pretty much never collect) and then using the horn and pressed or two-fer box wins to feed my rack.
@@ProCraps many people use inside out to feed outside box number initial bets. Field is nice but one roll bet that needs replenishment (as does horn). Just probing. Thanks.
I like this a LOT, but what I would do differently is I would not put up the $6 horn bets and instead of pressing immediately, I would collect FIRST and then press every 2nd hit of BOTH whatever box number hit of the 5,6, or 8, and then double-up the field bet on the 2nd win in a row, and then regress back the field bet to $10 if it won for the 3rd time in a row. However, I would just continue collecting and pressing every time an Iron Cross box number hit and ONLY keep pressing THAT number that keeps hitting, and NOT spread to the other 2 remaining Iron Cross numbers, so that when one of those numbers hits that can produce a win of at LEAST $200, then I will just regress back to the original $100 Iron Cross with that 3 to 1 ratio and just repeat that process but this time, just keep on collecting and pressing with ALL gas NO brakes until the seven shows up!
This way you already GUARANTEED yourself that $100 profir and can now KICK ASS!!!
You should checkout the Red Cross Strategy and see what you think of that version. I like it a LOT better. It actually went 18-2 on our daily paycheck show. Easily the top performer
WOW!!!@@CasinoGamingTV
My experience with craps is that MOST people SUCK and they are RANDOM shooters and they 7-out VERY quickly, so I would rather just use the Iron-cross for just 2-3 rolls MAX PER person and then when it comes to YOUR turn to shoot, you can invest MORE on yourself and keep up the Iron-cross longer - depending on how confident you are with your rolls - and then take it down or call it OFF when you fell it's appropriate and then just try to make your point of if you 7-out, just make sure that you make MORE money when that happens, compared to how much you have invested on your Pass line bet and odds bet!
On other shooters, I tend to lean more on the don’t than an iron cross variant. This is a great option when your playing with teammates that you trust
Very nice John I like this one a lot but like you said you don’t wanna stay in it too long. You definitely want to get out and use your winnings although it’s very tempting to just stay there because it seems like a money maker.It worked out good for me after I practiced it on my homemade table. I’m still playing but I’m up about $355. I’m playing the don’t pass for $25 and your headless horseman with a couple of extra don’t come bets. When the point was 10 I put $100Only because I’m ahead and the odds were good the seven came and won another $50.All in all I really like this strategy thank you much appreciated! Kindest regards dan
I think there’s still work to be done with it. But I like this as a starting point for sure.
It is tempting to stay. But if you watch my practice session you’ll see that when I survive the early 7 … 3 hits and down to a $64 across bet is prett easy
Thanks for info
No problem, appreciate your support!
Great strategy. I like the 2 hit parley in the field. You had a couple of math errors I think. No one's an Einstein 😅. You woulda done great if you worked the horn bets coming out
Check out the Crossbow V2 that I just did over @casinogamingtv ... I do a daily paycheck there, and I just ran 5 straight days and about and about 10 sessions with an upgraded version of this. Super aggressive and very very profitable.
What do you have for a beginner low risk. bubble craps
Honestly, the $66 permanent press works great on bubble craps, but scaled way back to $1 bets instead of $15 bets.
With a $100 or $200 bankroll -
$1 on each of the 5, 6, 8, 9
Every win, press them each $1
It'll cost you $3 additional to make the first press, $2 additional the 2nd, and then after that, all of your presses are paid for by profits
After your 3rd hit in profit, you'll have doubled your investment.
If you ever 7 out, start all your bets over from where you left off.
How does the $6 horn bet work? Isn't it $2 each? (New)
It's $1 on the 2, $1 on the 12, and $2 each on the 3 and 11. Each of those pays $30 minus the others.
So, for example:
2 = $30 win minus the $2 on the 3, $1 on the 12 and the $2 on the 11, so the net is $25
I only do this 3 times or so. Any more and you bleed too much but it's nice when you double up on this with the field.
At 9:26 you never take the Field and horn loss from your $42 win.
Ah ... missed it while talking. Not sure if it's clear, but these are filmed live and cut from a live stream, so mistakes are absolutely part of the mix. Thanks for catching it!
@@ProCraps No worries... Would love to see you explore the Stearn 3.0
@@Dr_S What's the 3.0? Different than the standard Stern 1-1-1-1-2-2-4-4-8-8 progression?
25 if you hit you rack $25 if not you move to next bet
25 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
25 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
35 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
45 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
60 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
80 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
110 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
145 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
195 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
260 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
345 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
460 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
615 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not move to next bet
825 if you hit you parlay, if you hit again you star over from the beginning. If not you have had a bad day… come back tomorrow and do it again!
Would love to see you give it a try
The plan is to win $500 and walk way call that a session, do that 2 or 3 times a day and vacation is paid for.
@@Dr_S I'm on it ... I did a series a while back on these betting progressions and worked through the stern 2.0 (and actually lost my whole bankroll while filming!). Open to giving it a shot.
where did you get your chip racks
From Donald Denny at 7outwoodnc on Etsy - www.etsy.com/shop/7OutWoodNC
If I can find a table that can last 3 rolls I would be a millionaire. It’s always 2nd roll PSO… now your down $110, now u need a 6 roll to recoup. Another PSO on 2-6 rolls you need 10 roll shooter to break even. U start doing don’t pass iron cross…with $60 don’t pass.
You get them ... a good strategy is strong early (survives and profits in rolls 1, 2, 3 no matter what) and can profit in the long term as well. This one has a ton of 7 volatility, but knowingly so.
I purposefully didn't add a Don't Pass component to this to keep it as a high earning potential play, but as you point out, there's a good argument to be made for it.
@@Eqnotalent then play a Don't pass for the come out and an even amount come bet on second roll and you will always win on PSO
Nice strat. A few tweaks here and there and it would be golden. It just takes too many hits to be a good phase 1 strategy. Maybe start with a strong 2-3 hit regression strat and transition into this as phase two with just a little less aggression so you can rack a little on each hit. Maybe a half parlay on the field, instead of pressing the 5 with the 9 after a $50 6/8 win use the extra $25 and a nickel from your rack to grab the 4/10 one hit early then start your butterburg/dc transition. Just my thoughts. Keep doing you! Love it!
I did a practice session last night where it was 3 hits and down to 64 across. Worked well enough but I threw so many PS0 to really get a feel for it
One guy suggested C/E instead of the horn. I’m goin to work through the presses some more
@@ProCraps I always try to design strategies for the worst case scenario with plenty of upside opportunities for the good times. Nothing pisses me off more than having a plan and it going to crap as soon as I get to the table. It happens though, so we have to use that and think of ways to counteract or even profit from them, and I’m not really talking about hedging.
Think of more as an if-then statement. Rather than beating against it repeatedly with a hammer, trying to force it in, what other tools can we use?
I tried really hard not to make this one a hybrid. But damn you just get punched in the gut otherwise!
Hey, Bud. Wats Krak'n. U Kno the field is always on. Right. U Kno there is no off or on n the field. That money n the field is always live. Puck off or on.
Yup. Often in my videos, I'll set my bets out while the puck is off mainly as a time saver. It can be confusing on bets like the field or the horn where they're always on, but that's the reason I do that. Need to get better at calling that out. Thanks!
In your demonstration video you had no come out 7s I can remember but many horn hits. 11s and craps numbers. Working bets would of been paid
Doesn’t the house edge kill you from the start? You say just a few rolls. It’s the same bad odds isn’t it???
The house edge will eat you up over time. In the very short term, you'll run into it of course, as it's there in every bet. but it's so much worse when you continue to feed it.
That's why I only take 3 cracks at the horn, and after any 3 hits on field or box numbers I'm out of the field and into other moves.
How much should I bring into the game
For this one, it takes $106 + an additional $12 to have enough to play this on one shooter. Generally, we recommend you bring enough to last you in the worst case of 10 shooters going with an immediate 7 out. So, that would mean a minimum of $1180 to work this at this level in the casino.
I did this at a $10 table, so the bets were $10 in the field and $25/$30/$30 on the 5, 6, and 8
If you can find a $5 table, you can cut that all in half and go with $5 in the field and $15/$18/$18 on the 5, 6, 8 and probably just do a $2 any craps bet.
This way it costs $57 to do it per shooter, so $570 or $600 buy-in
If you want to go nuts and run this at a higher level, you could work this with $25 in the field and $75/$90/$90 on the 5, 6, 8, and $12 for the horn (times 3), so that would be $291, so you'd need around $3k at that level.
If you have $3k to buy in with, there's better strategies to play that can take more advantage of those deep pockets.
Hope that helps!
I think would skip the horn bets completely.
I have gone back and forth on it, but I hit them enough that the double action with them and the field ends up earning over time for me.
You got an 11 field win… that you said that was off??
Was it a come out?
@@ProCraps Yea. Every craps table I’ve played, the field is always on, regardless of the puck.
Even if it’s not part of your intended flow, it’s still an effect to have the field active on a come out roll, for the strat.
@@ProCraps I did enjoy this video. It’s a fun strategy. I do enjoy the idea of taking field wins into odds on the dark side.
@@traemcpherson7266 one of the things I often do in practice is to set up all of my bets ahead of time and then just go with the puck. Time saver. But not clear for the viewer
I Think you have been watching some Hawaiian's play craps??? Building your 4,9,10 is were you move to first because it's your best option. You will get paid in two places if or when they hit. Your 3 to 1 ratio is spot on but add into your Crossbow keep the ratio until you / who ever is rolling 7 out. Example 60 to 20, 90 to 30 120 to 40 and so on..........
I've tried it that way, but I'm not looking to double up on field wins. In fact, I'm looking to get out of the field as fast as possible. In reality, the Crossbow should be a 3 or 4 hit max strategy. Build up the 5, 6, 8 maybe grab a field parlay and then transition right out of it. After a hit on a built-up 5, 6, or 8, then I'll spread out, but I really look at this as a short term play. That field bleed is real unless you parlay (and hit) it
Just ran the numbers and this is actually a worse strategy than Iron Cross. The extra expense of the horn bet is actually just concentrating the win potential of the Field bet into the rarer rolls. This causes the 4, 9, and 10 to perform about 2.6x WORSE in exchange for a 13% chance to roll a 2 or 12. But here's the catch: You need to roll 2 or 12 at least 4 times to break even the whole bet. That's 4 times BEFORE THE 7 COMES OUT which is 1:6 times. Basically, you need to roll 5, 6, 8, 2, or 12 at least 3 - 4 times per 6 rolls to break even the whole bet. With these rates, this betting strategy requires about 7 successful rolls to break even the whole bet, but the 7 shows up every 6 rolls. With the original iron cross allowing the fields full potential, it requires about 5 successful rolls to break even the whole bet. A 5/9 strat can break even in 3 - 4 successful rolls and a general 5x better return rate
The whole point of those horns is to hit a home run if you catch one.
The real difference here is that I’m being more aggressive with the 5,6,8 and reinventing the field in better ways. The 3:1 ratio gets you out of the hand in 4 rolls, not 8
Iron cross is best when a field shooter is up
Nice content John however this strategy works only on hot tables.
Very true. The Iron Cross, even when played aggressively like this, requires 5+ box hits or consecutive fields to get you going.
point 7, then point point 7
For the Horn bet, why not just do $2 on the 11 and $4 on the Any Crap - pays $26 no matter what...
That is an option we tried in one of our practice sessions. It works great and it's a little bit simpler.
Man, hard to follow. I'll just put $100 on the pass or DP and double up real quick
Like the strategy. But it has flaws. You need to work the field on come out. Any win in field move profit to same box number rolled instead of parlay. Your losing out on money that way.
Let's be honest ... the Iron Cross is itself a fatally flawed strategy no matter what we do to it. I think, as you point out here, that the key to making it suck less is to make the field wins work for you.
Whether it's a parlay, grabbing box numbers, or moving to the DC, you have to reinvest those wins smartly or you'll bleed to death.
Horn bet is a sucker bet.
99% of the time, absolutely. Just chucking $4 bucks out there at random is foolish. When you use it for a very limited number of times as part of a gap filler in a strategy, it’s still a terrible bet. But you just a little bit better about it ;)
@@ProCraps lol yeah I usually only chuck money at the stick man as tips.
Adding the field to any strategy is a bad move The field is a cash cow for the casino 5% VIG plus 20 ways to lose 16 ways to win
It's not great.
But this strategy uses it only in the short term to get us to a point where we're playing something else entirely. The goal is not to waste rolls on the way to a new foundation. There's some tweaks there to be made for sure.
I place $10 on the 5 and $12 on the 6 and 8 and then place $7 in the field. I only allow two rolls on each dice shooter. This crap system has made me more money consistently than any other crap system that I played. I only play until I make $75 or $100 and then leave the casino for the day.
Good discipline always wins in the long term! I do prefer a higher ratio from the box, but if that works then keep rocking it
Do you work your come outs?
@@Mc.flyyy11---I only work my come outs when I set my dice before I through them.
the only thing iron cross is good for is 2 hits then go eat a discount breakfast.
Truth. But at high levels it's an amazing 2 hits and go the hell home way to get it done.
Can u stop beating the horse...I mean u repeat and repeate and repeate..the same strategy...but its still worth the wait
There's no "fixing" the Iron Cross. It's a bad strategy. But I get why people love it. I think the point of this video is to hammer in 2 points:
1. Use a 3:1 ratio box to field
2. Use the field wins to press and grow the box
That's it. Never collect the field and pray for a good roll