I am not an expert on the breed but I am going to interject a bit. I think almost any dog that is tested is going to have some genetic traits consistent with other breeds. Even if that dog is purebred for generations. So I still think these are American Bulldogs. From what I understand that when Johnson and Scott rounded these dogs up, there were likely to be some dogs that looked similar, but had genetic variation. Thus I think all American Bulldogs are some part bulldog, Amstaff, and pit bull. So, in my opinion, what you have here are truly American Bulldogs. Maybe some testing that could be done would show some of the bulldogs have a higher percent of American Bulldog, but this genetic profile would still seem consistent with what someone would expect.
I wouldn’t consider what you’re saying as an interjection considering everything you said I stated in this video. There are truly purebred dogs out there by definition but just because a dog is registered as a certain breed doesn’t mean that it’s DNA will say it’s 100% just that breed even if there was no paper hanging. Most of society will not understand that though, I’m glad you do though 👍🏻.
@@prideofthesouthlandkennels I also saw your short video on braccocyphalic noses and the implications that they were impractical for performance and wanted to opine here as well. In evolution sometimes people find that a certain trait evolved for a different reason than the scientific community thought it did. For example, when I was younger I learned that zebras had stripes to confuse lions. Later (just recently) they found it was to confuse biting flies and create a palate that was not easy for a fly to land on. I do think that the original American Bulldog was braccocyphalic to some extent, because pictures seem to prove this. But also, 5 of the largest biting strength breeds have short muzzles and even one naturally occurring breed (the Presa Canario) has a short nose. This implies there is a lot more to the short muzzle then we think. But I do agree that American Bulldogs should not be 120 lbs. I think they are best suited at 90-100. But that short nose sure is cute.
The muzzles are becoming to exaggerated. Short-medium muzzle I’d say yes for the Original Bulldog because of paintings I’ve seen but for a 120lb dog to have a 2 inch muzzle or less is definitely not good if you ask me. Presa Canario’s muzzles are definitely not as short as some of these Johnson dogs of today. They have decent muzzles on them.
I’ve worked dogs on gripping and catching and short muzzle dog’s definitely can’t hold as good compared to his longer muzzles counterpart. That’s just from my personal experience. Others may have a different experience
@@prideofthesouthlandkennels There is certainly a correlation between bite force and size. Since a lot of the big dogs have shorter muzzles that might contribute to 5 of the top ten bite force dots being short muzzled. But the thing I found interesting when I looked into it was that an American Bulldog had almost twice the bite force of a pit bull.
There was a written article in the ADBA Gazette magazine in the 70's put out by Ralph Greenwood. I believe it was an interview with Mr. Johnson. If I remember correctly, He said in the article. That these dogs he had were in his family before the war between the states. That these dogs were shipped over from England. Now if your stats are shown from genetic testing of various blends of these dogs. We had dogs like these in rural S.C. One we had was a family pet called Jasper. Was a blend of Am Staff x Pit Bull Terrier x Boxer Bull. These type dogs we called logger headed bulldogs or just a ole farm bulldog for working stock. Weighed from eighty to ninety pounds. My father had various breeds of sporting dogs. I later bred up a family of Pit Bull Terriers that are still intact to this day.
Interesting story I always appreciate other people sharing their stories and experiences with the old rural bulldogs in the south. As I understand John D Johnson was around those type dogs from the age of 3-4. He said his dad bred them I believe and then they went extinct pretty much after World War II. This is when they started rounding up random dogs and putting fake pedigrees on them. He called them dogs White English back then and claimed they were the same type from England. Later on he admitted to adding AKC English Bulldog and others have admitted to adding American Staffordshire Terrier and American Pit Bull Terrier. Even some Olde English Bulldogs were added later on. What most people don’t understand is that those Kennel Club papers don’t guarantee 100% DNA of a certain breed and the majority of “purebred” dogs will show different breeds as well. People that understand how Biology works can grasp that and understand it. Me on the other hand I find it interesting and don’t consider my dogs to be inferior because of it. Through other companies these dogs would test out at 100% American Bulldog so we don’t even know if the science is right. I utilize these tests for health and traits. The traits are something I can physically see and tell if the tests are accurate or not. I will have to do some more reading and see if I can find anything those bulldogs you speak of. Would be interesting to find some more people from that area and hear their stories as well. Thanks you for sharing my friend. I have some old gazettes I may go through just to see if I can find that interview.
The only reason a American Pit Bull Terrier & American Staffordshire Terrier showed up separately that I could imagine, is the American Pit Bull Terrier has both English & Irish Terriers in them. Read thats the reason AKC won't register the red noses, because it's Irish not from Staffordshire.
My champion German shepherd came back 1/4 Shiloh shepherd. He does not have Shiloh in him. He is just derived from New England GSD lines that were used in the Shiloh.
The Navy doesn't cross the dogs but where the dogs come from (the Malinois/ KNPV kennel) they do cross them to the European Boxer European Great Dane, and Retriever. It states this in their manual.
Of course Boxer most modern Bulls have Boxer blood , Dick the Bruiser does look like the oldtime Boxers , on my page you can see a show from the era and see the Boxers and what they looked like compared to today , you have some wonderful looking dogs , Thanks again for the time and uploads
Great Info! I have puppies right now that look like Scotts. My Dam she’s a hybrid American Bulldogs and My Sire a Registered Classic (Johnson). The puppies are fit longer snout and the parents are Bully type.
Thx for this video! I just mentioned a few days ago in another video of yours, i wish you would do this type of video lol. This DNA stuff is simply fascinating to me. My wife and i did the ancestor dna and it's a fascinating subject. If you get any more info on this, please do a follow up or update. Thx
Bulldog means the AKC deformed bulldog. The blue de gascogne breeds are all supposed be behind the bluetick. There are two that are almost identical to the real bluetick and the American Gascon hound.
From what I gather it is rare. So you have something that a lot of folks are chasing after. Of the 4 dogs that tested 100% out of the original 10,000 2 were standard and 2 were bully. I believe I was told Alan Scott had 1, Lemuel Miller at Joshua Kennels had 1 and the 2 Bully types were owned by Matt Boyd.
Is the % pitbull the main difference between the scott and Johnson? it Seems to me that the Johnson(bully type) are way less intense than the scott type. Ive had a Johnson and he was so chill. Nothing that resembled the am staff I had previous
I’ve seen 100% DNA American Bulldogs of both types and the standards are just always more intense. It’s just how they’ve been bred for multiple generations. What you’re asking does make sense and I think it applies to some situations but it’s just not the only answer of the standards being more intense in my opinion. Great question though 👍🏻
It's long sorry(I'm only thinking out loud, not saying I'm correct)this is off, but on subject. I've thought for awhile that America's pitbull(garden variety) has the German bullenbeisser in it. The reason I started to believe this, is color, plus America's migration history. As far as I've seen the English/Irish bulldog types were "base" white in color for the most part. Germany had 2 versions, a big & medium size Bulldog,. I've tryed to watch every pitbull dna test I could find and the majority of tests came back with some boxer dna(the predecessor of bullenbeisser). I believe the German variety had a darker coat, dark colored pitbulls are the vast majority & I don't believe that came from nowhere.
I would say you are right about some lines but also some paintings I’ve seen of the Original English Bulldog they had a lot of color in them as well some almost all brindle. All of these dogs trace back to each other at some point though. Great topic, I will have to look at other DNA tests to as I’m curious. I hope more and more people release their information. I want to see the results from a true game bred dog that’s on a good breeding program not someone’s pet though.
Me either but a lot will because they just don’t understand but that’s ok too. We all can’t be blessed with critical thinking skills 👍🏻💯. Thanks for watching and commenting my friend.
I am not an expert on the breed but I am going to interject a bit. I think almost any dog that is tested is going to have some genetic traits consistent with other breeds. Even if that dog is purebred for generations. So I still think these are American Bulldogs. From what I understand that when Johnson and Scott rounded these dogs up, there were likely to be some dogs that looked similar, but had genetic variation. Thus I think all American Bulldogs are some part bulldog, Amstaff, and pit bull. So, in my opinion, what you have here are truly American Bulldogs. Maybe some testing that could be done would show some of the bulldogs have a higher percent of American Bulldog, but this genetic profile would still seem consistent with what someone would expect.
I wouldn’t consider what you’re saying as an interjection considering everything you said I stated in this video. There are truly purebred dogs out there by definition but just because a dog is registered as a certain breed doesn’t mean that it’s DNA will say it’s 100% just that breed even if there was no paper hanging. Most of society will not understand that though, I’m glad you do though 👍🏻.
@@prideofthesouthlandkennels I also saw your short video on braccocyphalic noses and the implications that they were impractical for performance and wanted to opine here as well. In evolution sometimes people find that a certain trait evolved for a different reason than the scientific community thought it did. For example, when I was younger I learned that zebras had stripes to confuse lions. Later (just recently) they found it was to confuse biting flies and create a palate that was not easy for a fly to land on. I do think that the original American Bulldog was braccocyphalic to some extent, because pictures seem to prove this. But also, 5 of the largest biting strength breeds have short muzzles and even one naturally occurring breed (the Presa Canario) has a short nose. This implies there is a lot more to the short muzzle then we think. But I do agree that American Bulldogs should not be 120 lbs. I think they are best suited at 90-100. But that short nose sure is cute.
The muzzles are becoming to exaggerated. Short-medium muzzle I’d say yes for the Original Bulldog because of paintings I’ve seen but for a 120lb dog to have a 2 inch muzzle or less is definitely not good if you ask me. Presa Canario’s muzzles are definitely not as short as some of these Johnson dogs of today. They have decent muzzles on them.
I’ve worked dogs on gripping and catching and short muzzle dog’s definitely can’t hold as good compared to his longer muzzles counterpart. That’s just from my personal experience. Others may have a different experience
@@prideofthesouthlandkennels There is certainly a correlation between bite force and size. Since a lot of the big dogs have shorter muzzles that might contribute to 5 of the top ten bite force dots being short muzzled. But the thing I found interesting when I looked into it was that an American Bulldog had almost twice the bite force of a pit bull.
There was a written article in the ADBA Gazette magazine in the 70's put out by Ralph Greenwood. I believe it was an interview with Mr. Johnson. If I remember correctly, He said in the article. That these dogs he had were in his family before the war between the states. That these dogs were shipped over from England. Now if your stats are shown from genetic testing of various blends of these dogs. We had dogs like these in rural S.C. One we had was a family pet called Jasper. Was a blend of Am Staff x Pit Bull Terrier x Boxer Bull. These type dogs we called logger headed bulldogs or just a ole farm bulldog for working stock. Weighed from eighty to ninety pounds. My father had various breeds of sporting dogs. I later bred up a family of Pit Bull Terriers that are still intact to this day.
Interesting story I always appreciate other people sharing their stories and experiences with the old rural bulldogs in the south.
As I understand John D Johnson was around those type dogs from the age of 3-4. He said his dad bred them I believe and then they went extinct pretty much after World War II. This is when they started rounding up random dogs and putting fake pedigrees on them. He called them dogs White English back then and claimed they were the same type from England. Later on he admitted to adding AKC English Bulldog and others have admitted to adding American Staffordshire Terrier and American Pit Bull Terrier. Even some Olde English Bulldogs were added later on.
What most people don’t understand is that those Kennel Club papers don’t guarantee 100% DNA of a certain breed and the majority of “purebred” dogs will show different breeds as well. People that understand how Biology works can grasp that and understand it.
Me on the other hand I find it interesting and don’t consider my dogs to be inferior because of it. Through other companies these dogs would test out at 100% American Bulldog so we don’t even know if the science is right. I utilize these tests for health and traits. The traits are something I can physically see and tell if the tests are accurate or not.
I will have to do some more reading and see if I can find anything those bulldogs you speak of. Would be interesting to find some more people from that area and hear their stories as well. Thanks you for sharing my friend. I have some old gazettes I may go through just to see if I can find that interview.
The only reason a American Pit Bull Terrier & American Staffordshire Terrier showed up separately that I could imagine, is the American Pit Bull Terrier has both English & Irish Terriers in them. Read thats the reason AKC won't register the red noses, because it's Irish not from Staffordshire.
Good videos, keep it up. We need more!👌🏻
My champion German shepherd came back 1/4 Shiloh shepherd. He does not have Shiloh in him. He is just derived from New England GSD lines that were used in the Shiloh.
Just got my first American bulldog from Don at konfederate kennels. Love em.
I’m sure you have you a good one then. Don is a good guy and knows a lot about putting together some good dogs.
The Belgian Mainos used to by the SEALS were of a cross as well.
The Navy doesn't cross the dogs but where the dogs come from (the Malinois/ KNPV kennel) they do cross them to the European Boxer European Great Dane, and Retriever. It states this in their manual.
Nice topic, thanks for the information I will look into that. Very interesting to me.
@@prideofthesouthlandkennels
In the KNPV manual. Dutch Royal Police Manual it clearly states this.
Of course Boxer most modern Bulls have Boxer blood , Dick the Bruiser does look like the oldtime Boxers , on my page you can see a show from the era and see the Boxers and what they looked like compared to today , you have some wonderful looking dogs , Thanks again for the time and uploads
Great Info! I have puppies right now that look like Scotts. My Dam she’s a hybrid American Bulldogs and My Sire a Registered Classic (Johnson). The puppies are fit longer snout and the parents are Bully type.
Ya I been waiting for this video!!! 😉
Do you have any pups available?
Nothing currently available, sorry. If all goes well we have a breeding planned Spring of 2024.
AKC calls the English Bulldog just Bulldog
So when they say Bulldog it means AKC English Bulldog
Thx for this video! I just mentioned a few days ago in another video of yours, i wish you would do this type of video lol. This DNA stuff is simply fascinating to me. My wife and i did the ancestor dna and it's a fascinating subject. If you get any more info on this, please do a follow up or update. Thx
The 'hound' is likely POINTER. Same w Dogo Argentino.
I could see that.
Curious If you x breed the bottom 4 in a program skip that hound ? they prolly come out looking as a AB imo and for fun google English Bulldog x Boxer
Bulldog means the AKC deformed bulldog. The blue de gascogne breeds are all supposed be behind the bluetick. There are two that are almost identical to the real bluetick and the American Gascon hound.
Nice, thanks for the information my friend.
I used to have an English Bulldog. Recently I've seen where AKC removed the English off of it.
Good video thank you I have one dog dnad 100 AB on wisdom panel she is bully type
Nice 👍🏻
From what I gather it is rare. So you have something that a lot of folks are chasing after. Of the 4 dogs that tested 100% out of the original 10,000 2 were standard and 2 were bully. I believe I was told Alan Scott had 1, Lemuel Miller at Joshua Kennels had 1 and the 2 Bully types were owned by Matt Boyd.
Is the % pitbull the main difference between the scott and Johnson? it Seems to me that the Johnson(bully type) are way less intense than the scott type. Ive had a Johnson and he was so chill. Nothing that resembled the am staff I had previous
I’ve seen 100% DNA American Bulldogs of both types and the standards are just always more intense. It’s just how they’ve been bred for multiple generations. What you’re asking does make sense and I think it applies to some situations but it’s just not the only answer of the standards being more intense in my opinion. Great question though 👍🏻
It's long sorry(I'm only thinking out loud, not saying I'm correct)this is off, but on subject. I've thought for awhile that America's pitbull(garden variety) has the German bullenbeisser in it. The reason I started to believe this, is color, plus America's migration history. As far as I've seen the English/Irish bulldog types were "base" white in color for the most part. Germany had 2 versions, a big & medium size Bulldog,. I've tryed to watch every pitbull dna test I could find and the majority of tests came back with some boxer dna(the predecessor of bullenbeisser). I believe the German variety had a darker coat, dark colored pitbulls are the vast majority & I don't believe that came from nowhere.
I would say you are right about some lines but also some paintings I’ve seen of the Original English Bulldog they had a lot of color in them as well some almost all brindle. All of these dogs trace back to each other at some point though. Great topic, I will have to look at other DNA tests to as I’m curious. I hope more and more people release their information. I want to see the results from a true game bred dog that’s on a good breeding program not someone’s pet though.
@@prideofthesouthlandkennels 👍🏼
I see nothing wrong here. Makes total sense if you go from the 1978 timeline.
Me either but a lot will because they just don’t understand but that’s ok too. We all can’t be blessed with critical thinking skills 👍🏻💯. Thanks for watching and commenting my friend.
@@prideofthesouthlandkennels I don’t understand the issue if the dog does what you need it to. The dog world shouldn’t be binary.
Good Stuff brother 👍
Thank you 👍🏻