Great event! As a podcaster myself, I think that would be a wonderful idea for people who are scared by the monumental size of your book(s), David -- with notable exceptions like for instance Zink, of course.
To be honest, I quickly went through a number of pages, glanced it over. All the stuff he writes about are well known to any PROPER historian, even amateur historian. Also, how to place or characterize the events in history. I find it not surprising. It is also true that last generations of dutch people, less still the rest of the world, but also the indonesians themselves have little or bad education of what happened in those 350 years of dutch (and english!) presence in indonesia. So for a LOT of people, this book seems like an eyeopener. Good for them. My critique (so far) is that D v R missed a LOT of more intricate details /aspects of very important events in the past (java war, Raffles) only summing it up in ONE or TWO sentences to make a "statement", which may be valid, but it simply is too little. MORE could be said about any of these cases. Personally , i hate it when he writes about current situations he finds himself in (bombing in jakarta) and making a poor attempt to intermingle it with what he is set out to produce about the past history of Indonesia's revolution. Dozens of pages wasted.
47:00 "off course colonialism can do good" NO, not in dutch colonialism, in English yes, this guy didn't know our history, they kill our KING, that is not colonialism, in "christian" colonialism the native state would turned into buffer state or christian state, or put in exile, but killing and ending a state means a "replacement" and complete apartheid whether the method is nice or not.
Speaking of visual art, Mas Goen may have forgotten that Sudjojono did not produce many paintings during the revolution. He's busy organizing young artists. On the other hand, about 25 of his paintings were destroyed due to the 2nd Military Aggression. Likewise, his sculptures were targeted by the Dutch army. Dozens of other works by the Young Indonesian Artists (founded in 194) were also lost due to aggression. It is a significant loss for the history of Indonesian modern art. Unfortunately, this case is less raised in historiography.
The big case of million peoples kill to depend indonesian independence between 1945 until 1949 is in south sulawesi , the actor is Major General Raymond Westerling ... he was killed abouts 40.000 people in one Field Area
ps.. and while Vermeulen was a vicious killer in Celebes, he was quite the HERO resistance fighter/organiser in Netherlands under the Nazi occupation. And this is why I like history; the same person being a hero in one time, fallen from grace the other. You'll find those characters in Indonesian history/politics too...
Indonesian have a very 'Selective memory' when it comes to deaths. Our murdered Chinese have only been counted for 1500 but fact is they're almost 2 million. Dutch people please don't let the Indonesian propaganda get to you. They're lying.
There were never MILLIONS of people killed by Dutch military....get your facts straight. Only time millions of innocent civilians were slaughtered was during the 1965 communist purge by Indonesian Nationalists. And those Indonesian murdering genocide recidivists like Sutomo are all glorified by Indonazis like yourself. You should be deeply ashamed.
55:45 Bersiap alone counts already 20.000 to 35.000 dutch (and chinese and indo) civilians at the hands of the rebels/gangs. David ..makes , again, a biased mistake....
plus of the 100.000 to 200.000 indo killed..."estimate!!!" a LOT were counted in the killings inbetween indo fractions (1948 communists) and revenge killings on chinese indonesians.. The fact that Westerling killings are still 40.000 atributed in indonesia programs on TV and books, instead of the more actual 1400 (factor 30 !!!) is proof that counting bodies were NOT taken serious in those days by the rebels.
Of course Indonesia is a Genocide country. My Chinese family suffers a lot. We want Indonesia to be held accountable. But noone dares to talk about it in fear of repercussions on our remaining family in Indonesia. The Indonesian government has retrieved less than 1500 bodies but an estimate is around 2 million. Indonesia is a lying - cover up - genocide state that indoctrinates victims. The so-called Revolusi was the start of an ongoing Nationalist dictatorship ruled by terror and corruption.
According to Wikipedia David van Reybrouck writes Historical FICTION...so let's get it straight that's exactly what this is..FICTION.. cf.; immoral, fascist Indonazi propaganda and pure FICTION..
@@oddballsok psyops, you forgot about java, bali, rawagede, you think java islander enjoying welfare? no, and chinese are not suffer from communist killings but poor ppl, Islamist, farmers, soekarno followers, mostly java and bali, because chinese society are in high income, they don't fall to communist accusations, they have money to leave to Malaysia(singapore) and the US/AU/NZ.
He mention J.Pondaag .....he never gave answer on the vital Question Pondaag asked, ''Where does The Netherlands claim the right to see a area 18.000 km far away as their property''! Van Reybrouck is this typical Eurocentric Historical researcher he talks about German occupation about Japanese occupation but talks about the Dutch presence in Indonesia, so he condone colonialism.
Do you know the law of citizenship in Dutch East Indies and Indonesia was based by the birth place and not by etnicity or nationality??what is that mean?it means who ever they are who born in that country have the right to claim as citizen and claim it tobe their motherland as long as they want to!!!
Let's be honest,what did the Indonesian people get from the point of Revolusi until now?,we can see now 200 Chinese people with Ferarri,Bugatis,Lambo their yacht,private jets among 20 millions unemployed people.there is no health care,no social care,trash is all over the places,corupt and dirty government system...US and UK have all the oil,Grassberg was completely gone and no one knows how many millions metric tons of gold that they have made from it.?what's the different?backward of Social Culture and education system,bad country management,...that is all.All the Independence fighters were die in vain...
Not just an English translation. A translation into Bahasa Indonesia would be great too.
Great event! As a podcaster myself, I think that would be a wonderful idea for people who are scared by the monumental size of your book(s), David -- with notable exceptions like for instance Zink, of course.
is there in english version in this Book??? could you please to give me an info if there is in english version. Terima kasih Vielen dank
We’re sorry to have to inform you that no translation is available jet. But that surely will come!
@@FramerFramed A very important book! I'd love to see it translated
To be honest, I quickly went through a number of pages, glanced it over. All the stuff he writes about are well known to any PROPER historian, even amateur historian.
Also, how to place or characterize the events in history. I find it not surprising.
It is also true that last generations of dutch people, less still the rest of the world, but also the indonesians themselves have little or bad education of what happened in those 350 years of dutch (and english!) presence in indonesia.
So for a LOT of people, this book seems like an eyeopener. Good for them.
My critique (so far) is that D v R missed a LOT of more intricate details /aspects of very important events in the past (java war, Raffles) only summing it up in ONE or TWO sentences to make a "statement", which may be valid, but it simply is too little. MORE could be said about any of these cases.
Personally , i hate it when he writes about current situations he finds himself in (bombing in jakarta) and making a poor attempt to intermingle it with what he is set out to produce about the past history of Indonesia's revolution. Dozens of pages wasted.
47:00 "off course colonialism can do good" NO, not in dutch colonialism, in English yes, this guy didn't know our history, they kill our KING, that is not colonialism, in "christian" colonialism the native state would turned into buffer state or christian state, or put in exile, but killing and ending a state means a "replacement" and complete apartheid whether the method is nice or not.
Speaking of visual art, Mas Goen may have forgotten that Sudjojono did not produce many paintings during the revolution. He's busy organizing young artists. On the other hand, about 25 of his paintings were destroyed due to the 2nd Military Aggression. Likewise, his sculptures were targeted by the Dutch army. Dozens of other works by the Young Indonesian Artists (founded in 194) were also lost due to aggression. It is a significant loss for the history of Indonesian modern art. Unfortunately, this case is less raised in historiography.
Makasih, luar biasa
The big case of million peoples kill to depend indonesian independence between 1945 until 1949 is in south sulawesi , the actor is Major General Raymond Westerling ... he was killed abouts 40.000 people in one Field Area
Actually it is Captain Vermeulen AFTER Westerling who was the blunt killer of the DST group in that area.
also..not more than 1400 killed and most by this Vermeulen.
You fell , again, for Indo revolusi propaganda..
ps.. and while Vermeulen was a vicious killer in Celebes, he was quite the HERO resistance fighter/organiser in Netherlands under the Nazi occupation.
And this is why I like history; the same person being a hero in one time, fallen from grace the other.
You'll find those characters in Indonesian history/politics too...
Indonesian have a very 'Selective memory' when it comes to deaths.
Our murdered Chinese have only been counted for 1500 but fact is they're almost 2 million.
Dutch people please don't let the Indonesian propaganda get to you.
They're lying.
There were never MILLIONS of people killed by Dutch military....get your facts straight.
Only time millions of innocent civilians were slaughtered was during the 1965 communist purge by Indonesian Nationalists. And those Indonesian murdering genocide recidivists like Sutomo are all glorified by Indonazis like yourself. You should be deeply ashamed.
55:45
Bersiap alone counts already 20.000 to 35.000 dutch (and chinese and indo) civilians at the hands of the rebels/gangs.
David ..makes , again, a biased mistake....
plus of the 100.000 to 200.000 indo killed..."estimate!!!" a LOT were counted in the killings inbetween indo fractions (1948 communists) and revenge killings on chinese indonesians..
The fact that Westerling killings are still 40.000 atributed in indonesia programs on TV and books, instead of the more actual 1400 (factor 30 !!!) is proof that counting bodies were NOT taken serious in those days by the rebels.
Of course Indonesia is a Genocide country. My Chinese family suffers a lot.
We want Indonesia to be held accountable. But noone dares to talk about it in fear of repercussions on our remaining family in Indonesia.
The Indonesian government has retrieved less than 1500 bodies but an estimate is around 2 million.
Indonesia is a lying - cover up - genocide state that indoctrinates victims.
The so-called Revolusi was the start of an ongoing Nationalist dictatorship ruled by terror and corruption.
According to Wikipedia David van Reybrouck writes Historical FICTION...so let's get it straight that's exactly what this is..FICTION..
cf.; immoral, fascist Indonazi propaganda and pure FICTION..
I noticed a lot of genuine criticism is being made invisible on this video.
Censorship are they for real!?!
@@oddballsok psyops, you forgot about java, bali, rawagede, you think java islander enjoying welfare? no, and chinese are not suffer from communist killings but poor ppl, Islamist, farmers, soekarno followers, mostly java and bali, because chinese society are in high income, they don't fall to communist accusations, they have money to leave to Malaysia(singapore) and the US/AU/NZ.
He mention J.Pondaag .....he never gave answer on the vital Question Pondaag asked, ''Where does The Netherlands claim the right to see a area 18.000 km far away as their property''!
Van Reybrouck is this typical Eurocentric Historical researcher he talks about German occupation about Japanese occupation but talks about the Dutch presence in Indonesia, so he condone colonialism.
Do you know the law of citizenship in Dutch East Indies and Indonesia was based by the birth place and not by etnicity or nationality??what is that mean?it means who ever they are who born in that country have the right to claim as citizen and claim it tobe their motherland as long as they want to!!!
@@wahyu2419 that still doesn’t answer the vital
question Pondaag asked.
Yes,it's absolutely answer the question.
@@wahyu2419 No it doesn't at all give me break, but if you wanna stay the Priboemi of your white master please do so
Let's be honest,what did the Indonesian people get from the point of Revolusi until now?,we can see now 200 Chinese people with Ferarri,Bugatis,Lambo their yacht,private jets among 20 millions unemployed people.there is no health care,no social care,trash is all over the places,corupt and dirty government system...US and UK have all the oil,Grassberg was completely gone and no one knows how many millions metric tons of gold that they have made from it.?what's the different?backward of Social Culture and education system,bad country management,...that is all.All the Independence fighters were die in vain...