Hence the Old Fogey flavor text: “These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that’s _real_ Magic.”
Love Shahrazad. Back when this card first got banned, I tried my hardest to get as many as I could, in the effort of building a deck that was 40 basic Plains and 40 Shahrazads. The goal was to build what I called a reverse Tower of Hanoi deck, where you won by 1) having the larger library and 2) Wins the 7th or 8th sub game of a sub game because your opponent died on turn one of the sub game because they had no library to draw from. Eventually all the losses of life would keep on adding up, and you would eventually win when 1) your opponent ran out of life in the main game or 2) they gave up once you got to sub game #4 and they saw that the time required for this deck to win would be way too many hours to devote to shuffling cards. Anyhow, I think I only got up to 7 or 8, and I sold most of them to a card store in 2019 to pay for a top of the line gaming laptop that is still very good today (it's what I'm using right now!), and when they did the Foglio art kickstarter for playmats, you better believe this was the one I got.
This is the quality of content that convinces me it was worth it to get a shirt from the LRR store, find out it was too small for me, give it to a friend, then get another of the same shirt for myself in the size up.
Abyssal persecutor brings me back to watching friday nights when i first discovered LRR in 2014, with kathleen trying to kill her own demon and nelson countering all her kill spells. Good times
I think they skipped it because it’s just a good card. It’s not broken in a complicated and interesting way, it’s not at all bad, it’s just quite good. So they skipped it because, just quite good isn’t actually very fun to talk about.
I've said this before but I have never seen a man so broken as Cam was after that round at least until I watched Cam eat bacon during the War of the Spark PPR
As someone who still plays my Juzam Djinn in highlander, I have jammed many games with Abyssal Persecutor. Not saying I've _won_ many games with it, but he's certainly resolved many times. Also I am now dubbing my Medium Black highlander deck "Demons with Downsides"
As a former sliver hater for me I think a lot of it came from in the early days of commander when people were mostly still slamming jank together, slivers were a high synergy deck that was very linear so not only was it usually a lot better than everyone else's deck but sliver lovers tended to be og players with all the original duals and fetches which lead to some animosity as well. Nowadays where removal and board wipes are rampant slivers are pretty bad so I think it's pretty rare to see true sliver haters now.
It says some things about the power level of Mistform Sliver that their entire discussion of Mistform Sliver did not at any point relate to Mistform Sliver.
Shahrazad was, at least in part, for the existence of the Exile zone and how the cycle of Wish spells work within the game. Before these particular rule changes were implemented, people could and would use Burning Wish while within the subgame to go and get the Sharhazad that was resolving in the main game and bring it into the subgame, and rinse and repeat.
When my brother and I started we each bought a box and built decks from that and he built an unbeatable slivers deck. We played game after game with me just trying to beat him and it never worked. I still love slivers
I played abyssal persecutor in a demon commander deck and I had an opponent who was like this sucks no one can die, but I clarified that I could die, and they were like oh nice and then immediately killed me
Cameron exactly nailed my first experience with Slivers, which was also probably the third game of magic I ever played. On a separate note, my favorite thing about Abyssal Persecutor is that it is a nearly exact dark mirror of platinum angel (the only thing breaking the symmetry is that the angel should cost 6 mana).
Oh man, Abyssal Persecutor. I once made a deck to annoy my college friends by pairing this card with Platinum Angel and just dedicate all the rest of my resources to keeping them both alive.
Disclaimer: I almost exclusively play Commander. I'm usually fine playing against Slivers and half the time it's pretty fun, but it's definitely less fun when there's a Spiteful Sliver (the boros reckoner one) and/or a Sliver Hivelord (the indestructible one) in play. I've recognized I need to play more mass removal, so that'll probably make them less annoying next time.
it is really funny to look at md5 and initially think "oh so this is the start of Modern Magic right" and then you go through the block and Legend is still formatted as a creature type
God, I love spellshapers. I have a wubrg commander deck with Garth at the helm as an honorary spellshaper (he taps and copies spells from magics past), and it's awesome having repeatable answers on board, and since they're abilities, they're all at instant speed! Honestly, it plays sort of like a spellslinger/ draw-go, since everything is instant speed, lol.
Yeah the vibes I have for slivers is informed mostly by kitchen table magic when none of us played removal, so our removal was making the slivers player public enemy number 1
My lukewarm take on second sight would be that for 1 blue pip, at instant speed, top 6 would be enough. In formats with fetch lands and cards like dragons rage channel as four ofs you should be able to pretty effectively weave that into at least as much advantage as you get from something like Consider.
So i came into magic with mirrodin and was really confused when i saw other kids having these cards with these ugly frames and it took me getting back into the game in 2019 to realize that those cards werent like 5 years older than mine but more like 5 months older.
Meria, Scholar of Antiquity or Galazeth Prismari (or, most notably, Urza, Lord High Artificer; it's fun to pretend that you meant one of the other two, though)
Old guy here. Iirc the rules for mtg were 40 cards in a deck to play, but 60 If you were playing a tournament legal deck. I went to gencon in 95 and 96, but sadly I'm only 41 not 50.
I used to hate slivers exactly for that exact reason. Friend of mine had one when I really started playing, like a GW slivers deck, and it went like Nelson said. Just Muscle, Muscle, some other nonsense. Nowadays it's not really a big deal, but at the time...had no idea what I was doing so they just seemed so fast.
I think you only play the look at 10 cards in decks using fertches. So it becomes a slow but cheap dig thru time. After you draw the one (or two) cards you have to have a shuffle effect, but you should be able to always have one in your top 10 cards, no?
41:40 I can say my personal hatred for slivers in 2023 comes from The Silver Queen being legal in historic brawl, a format with Arcane Signet, Mox Amber, and Chromatic Lantern.
The worst part was entering a sub game made the next shaharazad more consistent meaning starting a subgame within a subgame made a third subgame more likely
Slivers is the laziest design, the tribe that does everything. Played by guys who show up to FNM wearing Vans and a Jansport backpack while listening to Coldplay.
They aren't "lazy design". Much of Magic design is based on being straight forward instead of being needlessly novel, like Maro talking about Annihilator how inexperienced players didn't want to risk attacking with their big expensive Eldrazi so they forced the issue by giving Ulamog's Crusher "must attack each turn". Just because you like things that are less straight forward doesn't things that aren't are inferior. Get over yourself.
When Magic first began, the rules dictated a 40-card deck, and there was no restriction for the number of copies of each card.
I googled the original rulebook and can confirm
These young'uns don't remember the good old days with no 4-of limit and a 40 card minimum
Came to look for this thanks!
Hence the Old Fogey flavor text: “These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that’s _real_ Magic.”
I would only play lighting bolt
As an animation nerd, "Some animation nerd's favorite movie" is such a good way to put the appeal of the art in original Mishra's Workshop.
The Cobbler and the Thief jumped to mind, though I am a very casual animation nerd
“Add 3 mana or add 3 people to Nelson’s life” is the best line in an episode full of bangers
Wheelers 3-for-0 himself story is how I knew I liked Wheeler.
Love Shahrazad. Back when this card first got banned, I tried my hardest to get as many as I could, in the effort of building a deck that was 40 basic Plains and 40 Shahrazads. The goal was to build what I called a reverse Tower of Hanoi deck, where you won by 1) having the larger library and 2) Wins the 7th or 8th sub game of a sub game because your opponent died on turn one of the sub game because they had no library to draw from. Eventually all the losses of life would keep on adding up, and you would eventually win when 1) your opponent ran out of life in the main game or 2) they gave up once you got to sub game #4 and they saw that the time required for this deck to win would be way too many hours to devote to shuffling cards.
Anyhow, I think I only got up to 7 or 8, and I sold most of them to a card store in 2019 to pay for a top of the line gaming laptop that is still very good today (it's what I'm using right now!), and when they did the Foglio art kickstarter for playmats, you better believe this was the one I got.
This is the quality of content that convinces me it was worth it to get a shirt from the LRR store, find out it was too small for me, give it to a friend, then get another of the same shirt for myself in the size up.
Abyssal persecutor brings me back to watching friday nights when i first discovered LRR in 2014, with kathleen trying to kill her own demon and nelson countering all her kill spells. Good times
there was a recent game on the prof's channel that was hilarious with two of them in play so nobody could win or lose
Those who listen to the podcast will never know how disrespected Canopy Vista was.
I think they skipped it because it’s just a good card. It’s not broken in a complicated and interesting way, it’s not at all bad, it’s just quite good. So they skipped it because, just quite good isn’t actually very fun to talk about.
Everytime Wheeler yells "James" I laugh
*Conspicuous Snoop* is Goblin Futuresight.
Goblinsight?
22:58 Cameron immediately starts to hear Fortunate Son and sees Trogdor flying towards him
I've said this before but I have never seen a man so broken as Cam was after that round at least until I watched Cam eat bacon during the War of the Spark PPR
@@GrandiaKnight
I love that WAR PPR. I have it saved in one of my TH-cam lists.
Tappy: Pocket Bacon?
Excellent, as always. Thank you!
No disrespect to James, but I really like how Wheeler said his name as a call to action.
Oh man, I love this episode concept! I don't watch much TTC content for some reason, but these ones are delightful :D
Battered Golem sounds like a Wilds of Eldraine card. Construct food, a golem covered in cake batter that you sac to gain 3 life.
No that's Batter Golem
Wow that really is perfect
As someone who still plays my Juzam Djinn in highlander, I have jammed many games with Abyssal Persecutor. Not saying I've _won_ many games with it, but he's certainly resolved many times. Also I am now dubbing my Medium Black highlander deck "Demons with Downsides"
As a former sliver hater for me I think a lot of it came from in the early days of commander when people were mostly still slamming jank together, slivers were a high synergy deck that was very linear so not only was it usually a lot better than everyone else's deck but sliver lovers tended to be og players with all the original duals and fetches which lead to some animosity as well. Nowadays where removal and board wipes are rampant slivers are pretty bad so I think it's pretty rare to see true sliver haters now.
Slivers are perpetually too good for casual play and not good enough for competitive play
I love these scryfall Roulettes. I just love looking at random magic cards
It says some things about the power level of Mistform Sliver that their entire discussion of Mistform Sliver did not at any point relate to Mistform Sliver.
I thought they'd at least bring up Mistforms being the proto-Changelings.
Shahrazad was, at least in part, for the existence of the Exile zone and how the cycle of Wish spells work within the game. Before these particular rule changes were implemented, people could and would use Burning Wish while within the subgame to go and get the Sharhazad that was resolving in the main game and bring it into the subgame, and rinse and repeat.
Sick "I Think You Should Leave" reference nelson! I also want 55 craterhoofs
Vampiric tutor let's me look at my whole deck and put one on top. For 1 mana and 2 life.
When my brother and I started we each bought a box and built decks from that and he built an unbeatable slivers deck. We played game after game with me just trying to beat him and it never worked. I still love slivers
I played abyssal persecutor in a demon commander deck and I had an opponent who was like this sucks no one can die, but I clarified that I could die, and they were like oh nice and then immediately killed me
Cameron exactly nailed my first experience with Slivers, which was also probably the third game of magic I ever played.
On a separate note, my favorite thing about Abyssal Persecutor is that it is a nearly exact dark mirror of platinum angel (the only thing breaking the symmetry is that the angel should cost 6 mana).
The other thing breaking symmetry is that one is a colorless artifact.
Kodama's Reach is the most important Arcane card.
Oh man, Abyssal Persecutor. I once made a deck to annoy my college friends by pairing this card with Platinum Angel and just dedicate all the rest of my resources to keeping them both alive.
They do make fiend hunters that can exile your own stuff, they are just usually given a condition so you can’t loop two copies of the same one.
Disclaimer: I almost exclusively play Commander.
I'm usually fine playing against Slivers and half the time it's pretty fun, but it's definitely less fun when there's a Spiteful Sliver (the boros reckoner one) and/or a Sliver Hivelord (the indestructible one) in play. I've recognized I need to play more mass removal, so that'll probably make them less annoying next time.
Stack your Deck for a single blue is basically just the world's least efficient Vampiric Tutor
That seems like the world’s most efficient vamp tutor. You get 60 vamp tutors for 1 mana!
@@NStripleseven that is an interesting way to look at it, hmm
That sliver is amazing tech against some of the new WoE board sweeps
it is really funny to look at md5 and initially think "oh so this is the start of Modern Magic right" and then you go through the block and Legend is still formatted as a creature type
God, I love spellshapers. I have a wubrg commander deck with Garth at the helm as an honorary spellshaper (he taps and copies spells from magics past), and it's awesome having repeatable answers on board, and since they're abilities, they're all at instant speed! Honestly, it plays sort of like a spellslinger/ draw-go, since everything is instant speed, lol.
Yeah the vibes I have for slivers is informed mostly by kitchen table magic when none of us played removal, so our removal was making the slivers player public enemy number 1
Look at these guys, not remembering tournament staple Lava Spike and commander staple Kodama’s Reach are Arcane spells
Doesn’t Through the Breach also see play.
undertaker is really good in pauper, pitching an extra land to get back boarding party or avenging hunter
It’s Tortured Existence copies #4-8
I started in 7th, I remember 40 being the constructed minimum
You can tell these guys are young players when they don't remember the switch to 60 card decks =)
I love these episodes so much
The moment it all kicked in.
I aspire to have the dad calfs of Wheeler and Nelson.
My lukewarm take on second sight would be that for 1 blue pip, at instant speed, top 6 would be enough. In formats with fetch lands and cards like dragons rage channel as four ofs you should be able to pretty effectively weave that into at least as much advantage as you get from something like Consider.
"Yo got someone special waitin' for you?" "A snake, and elf, and a druid." "Wow, pick one, Sarge!" "I did."
Talk about recent color hosers and no mention of Veil of Summer.
So i came into magic with mirrodin and was really confused when i saw other kids having these cards with these ugly frames and it took me getting back into the game in 2019 to realize that those cards werent like 5 years older than mine but more like 5 months older.
Bangers all the way down
Batter golem is insane with the commander that makes every artifact a mana rock
Meria, Scholar of Antiquity or Galazeth Prismari (or, most notably, Urza, Lord High Artificer; it's fun to pretend that you meant one of the other two, though)
@@collinbeal meria, that s the one. Urza was not eaven close to my mind xD
Old guy here. Iirc the rules for mtg were 40 cards in a deck to play, but 60 If you were playing a tournament legal deck. I went to gencon in 95 and 96, but sadly I'm only 41 not 50.
I used to hate slivers exactly for that exact reason. Friend of mine had one when I really started playing, like a GW slivers deck, and it went like Nelson said. Just Muscle, Muscle, some other nonsense. Nowadays it's not really a big deal, but at the time...had no idea what I was doing so they just seemed so fast.
Fallen Empires is an amazing set, because it has some of the worst rares ever printed, but also some commons that needed to be banned. Amazing.
I still wanna run a golgari commander deck with Thelon's Chant+Tourach's Chant+Urborg Tom of Yawgmoth+Yavimaya Cradle of Growth
Aye I just put a Thelon's Chant in my Hapatra deck who would have guessed it would show up here lol
I think you only play the look at 10 cards in decks using fertches. So it becomes a slow but cheap dig thru time. After you draw the one (or two) cards you have to have a shuffle effect, but you should be able to always have one in your top 10 cards, no?
I play skirk drill sergeant in my all old border Mons EDH deck!
I love this show so much
I love that TURN COLD shirt.
Skirk Drill Sergeant + Mogg Infestation on your opponent is something I want to do now in Commander. :')
I know it's shocking to hear, but Oko has been replacing gilded drake in my cedh decks
I run Second Sight in my Lonis, Cryptozoologist list and let me tell you it's terrible. Very funny, but terrible
I should run Second Sight in my Xanathar, Guild Kingpin deck.
Guilded Drake is perfect for Zedruu, if your rich that is
Someone please tell me where i can find Shivam and Wheeler love magic, i searched it on youtube and couldn't find anything
its not on youtube, its a non video podcast. google the title
I remember when people would put wrath of god in their sliver decks just in-case of a mirror match.
is he saying "chips"? lol
What do you mean "no bonus meme" for today? : [
I use second sight in my lonis deck :D
41:40 I can say my personal hatred for slivers in 2023 comes from The Silver Queen being legal in historic brawl, a format with Arcane Signet, Mox Amber, and Chromatic Lantern.
So color fixing? And Sliver Queen is not in Historic. Historic is also missing many other slivers.
The problem with shaharazad was people would win the first game then side in 4 copies of Shaharazad and then take game 2 to a draw and win in time 1-0
The worst part was entering a sub game made the next shaharazad more consistent meaning starting a subgame within a subgame made a third subgame more likely
Thanks for the shout out, guys =)
Holy shit Cameron, I was drinking when you reacted to Shahrazad! LOL
Sheoldred actually has counterplay. Combos are the “this resolves and you lose, oh you don’t have a Counterspell?”, not Sheoldred.
banger
I once saw a Shahrazad subgame in a Shahrazad subgame. Our playgroup banned the card the very next game.
Welp, time to feed the algorithm
get rid of GLHF, use Play well have fun. A superior sentiment
Slivers is the laziest design, the tribe that does everything. Played by guys who show up to FNM wearing Vans and a Jansport backpack while listening to Coldplay.
They aren't "lazy design". Much of Magic design is based on being straight forward instead of being needlessly novel, like Maro talking about Annihilator how inexperienced players didn't want to risk attacking with their big expensive Eldrazi so they forced the issue by giving Ulamog's Crusher "must attack each turn". Just because you like things that are less straight forward doesn't things that aren't are inferior. Get over yourself.
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