BMW's Hydrogen V12 Engine Is A Hilarious Engineering Stunt
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- BMW made a car, the Hydrogen 7, that can run on hydrogen or gasoline, powering a 6.0L V12 engine using stored liquid hydrogen, an incredible engineering feat!
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BMW's Hydrogen 7 is an extraordinary undertaking. Powered by a V12 engine, the car can run on either gasoline or hydrogen, and seamlessly switches between the two. The hydrogen is stored onboard as a liquid, which requires keeping it at -253ºC, or just above absolute zero! BMW developed solutions to overcome the many challenges associated with hydrogen storage, as the video discusses. We'll discuss the key car components, performance figures, range, storage challenges, and drawbacks. We might have a few celebrity appearances as well.
References:
Hydrogen 7 Press Kit - www.press.bmwg...
Hydrogen ICE Properties - doi.org/10.101...
Hydrogen 7 Study - doi.org/10.101...
Hydrogen 7 Press Photos - www.press.bmwg...
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Many have inferred that because I pointed out hydrogen combustion has many challenges, that I’m biased towards EVs, and that I believe combustion engines serves no purpose. Let me remind you that this is not at all what I believe: th-cam.com/video/Hatav_Rdnno/w-d-xo.html
Wow, this comment was posted only 25 seconds ago. I'm never this early to videos or comments.
For some reason car enthusiasts seem to be holding out for hydrogen as some saving grace. As you've pointed out several times, fuel cells are a far more efficient use of hydrogen rather than an engine. I love ICE cars and manuals but clearly the curtains are closing on this era.
Whats your opinion about the european ban on combustion engine?
Jason - speaking here with some experience related to this challenge...
You question about the use of port injection on the basis of it impacting the volumetric efficiency so much.
If you go with direct injection that will increase the volumetric efficiency considerably you then end up just having to reduce the compression ratio even further.
Also direct injection of a high pressure gaseous fuel is very challenging with regard to the control of the fuel. Time proportioned direct injectors (mechanical or electrical) rely on a very dense fuel in order to minimize the mechanical movement to achieve the required response time.
@@michael-j-harrison why do you have to reduce the compression ratio when you use direct injection with hydrogen? The reverse tends to be true with gasoline.
This is what happens when a car company hires a bunch of engineers who really wanted to build rockets
Imagine how much better it would be if they just used high ethanol biofuel.
Or zeppelins.
I suspect in reality this is what happens when a car company wants to get millions of taxpayer dollars from the government to muck around "researching" green technology.
BMW was (is?) making engines for airplanes (but not turbines).
Imagine if these rocket engineers (liquid pumps and combustion) tackled ICE (air pumps and combustion) instead of BEVs (heat and materials). Could have 200mile per gal ICE vehicles.
9:09 "There are three kinds of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't."
Trust me I’m good with numbers. 🖐️
Took me longer to figure out the joke than I’d like to admit.
There are 2 kinds of ppl in dis world- those that have more hairs on the left arm, and the others. Total bullsheize proverb.
I like the version of the joke that goes as follows:
There are 10 type of people in the world...
Those those that understand the binary counting system,...
Those people that don't understand the binary counting system,..
And those people that didn't expect a trinary base punch line.
@@michael-j-harrison
✨chef's kiss✨ Tremendous, I've never heard this one
I'm more impressed with the insulating properties of the hydrogen tank. I bet it'd make a great keg.
This is really what the BMW engineers were researching, but their bosses wouldn't allow them to call it that.
love it
The marketing behind this car is ridiculous, but the fact that it can make storing liquid hydrogen in a car even close to practical is genuinely impressive.
you see you see you can actually run a gas car on hydrogen so gasoline is now obsolete fuel🤣🤣🤣
@@raven4k998 that's an awfully confident hot take
@@larrylentini5688 yes it is hot just like you🤣
@@raven4k998 But running a Piston Engine on H2 is extreme inefficient and weak power output. It's not even practical to operate such a power train, lets alone deal with fuel supply chain problems.
The hydrogen tank normally leaks fuel, which is costs $30/kg and is only sold in California. That's not practical.
I love it. The H7 is a super complicated answer to a question nobody actually asked.
EVs and their battery packs have limitations, but my god the simplicity of an eV over that thing.
What about the simplicity of a gas engine or a diesel over all of them?
@@Ed70Nova427gas/diesel engines are crazy complex, we just take it for granted bc of how well developed they are.
@@davidbrind5274 ICE engines are orders of magnitude more complex, less reliable, and less efficient than electric motors. This is a fact. Look at anything that needs to run continuously for long durations with minimal maintenance and you will find an electric motor running it. E.g. how many air conditioners, refrigerators, pumps, etc. do you see that use an ICE engine in lieu of an electric motor?
ICE are only advantageous where a portable/temporary energy source is needed, and can't easily be electrified, or sufficient infrastructure does not yet exist.
As a reminder, all of the materials that go into an ICE needed to be mined at some point too. Once metals are exhumed they can be, nearly endlessly, recycled into new components.
@@mvansumeren4313 The only positives for ice engines are the energy density from gasoline and that beautiful exhaust sound. Oops forgot heat as byproduct for winter. Electric we all know the main problem numero uno. Even with that though, we can still make them to beat around town and keep some hybrids or gas/diesel for long range heavy duty stuff. I'm not sure why people prefer one over the other. My view is; use everything that's there.
@@davidbrind5274 There's also the question of availability, is there enough raw materials available to completely switch from fossil fuel to battery? China has majority control over lithium and other rare earth minerals have highly questionable process of extraction and we're not even looking at the human rights violations going on in such mining process. Replacement of battery in these Teslas will be breckneck costs. Jason is smug right now but let's come back to this when he has to change his battery after his warranty has run out. Or maybe he's smart and somehow gets away with it, think how many people who have bought BEVs are going to get blindsided with huge battery replacement costs in a coming global recession once thier battery runs out.
Full disclosure: I don't know jack about cars, so take with a huge grain of salt. However, due to my hobbies, I have had to learn a little about how to work with liquified gas fuels, specifically propane. Based on that, my guess is that the 80% fill limitation has to do with two things: safety margin for tank pressure increasing with temperature; and, importantly, maintaining sufficient *liquid* fuel surface area for it to boil into the gaseous state needed to run the engine. Those are the considerations typically described for propane tanks, anyway. :)
Exactly my thinking as well. DOT transport regs for liquified gas. Same thing applies to refrigerant tanks and the like
Back in the early 2000's I had the opportunity to help test those cars for a few weeks. It felt like we were on a real revolutionary path away from fossil fuels (remember, EVs weren't really a thing yet at that time). But it was very clear that a lot of R&D would still have to go into it. The H2 tank essentially took away all trunk capacity and made the vehicle quite butt-heavy to handle, which may also have been one of the reasons for the power limitations.
Nothing about it would get away from fossil fuels. You can't drill a well to get hydrogen. It comes from natural gas or coal (fossil fuels) or electrolysis which uses electricity (at the time, made from fossil fuels). Yes, solar can be used for that but that solar could also be used to replace power made from fossil fuels in other areas. Until we have some source of clean energy for ALL power needs, hydrogen is not the answer. Hydrogen is not an energy source (unless we get fusion figured out), it's a gaseous or liquid battery.
The General Motors EV1 was a "thing" from 1996-1999
And they have drawn the wrong conclusions from the tests, instead of: "Ok, hydrogen doesn't work let 's go ahead with this lithium battery!" they went: "let's sell combustion engines and tamper the with the exhaust measurement."
I worked on a project where we tried to revive an old university project that converted a Subaru STi to hydrogen, unfortunately we didn't get it running on hydrogen in time but we did get it to run on CNG. It sucks that such an interesting project, the Hydrogen 7, was kinda ruined by lies to the press and over exaggeration. I think if BMW just came out with a "here check out what we have been working on" and just gave an honest impression of the car, it wouldn't have been laughed at as much. Despite all the BS, it is a cool project, and I hope they continue to try get into hydrogen.
It wasn't ruined by lies. The cars simply sucked and there was no perspective for any successor that wouldn't. They were never sold, instead BMW leased out 100 cars to german politicians and VIPs as a greenwashing move and recalled them after a while.
@@WhatComesAroundTM burning hydrogen (made from fossil methane) in a V12 engine and writing "clean energy" on the side of the car qualifies as deceptive to me.
@@w0ttheh3ll you can make hydrogen cleanly. The issue is they marketed it as way more than it really was. It was deceptive marketing. Which ruined any accomplishments they made. Greenwashing ruined it. This was my exact point. I'm guessing you deleted your original comment. Which I get. We all sometimes say something without proofreading. I'll delete my response too and pretend it never happened 🙂. Wasn't trying to mock you or anything, just to say, yes, we are on the same page 🙂.
@@WhatComesAroundTM you can't make it clean economically though. 54kWh of electricity to make 1kg of clean hydrogen that powers a Mirai for 100km, or use 3 times less electricity to move an EV 100km (18kWh vs 54kWh).
@@brushlessmotoring yes I am aware of that, I never said it was cheap hahaha
I love that BMW actually goes all out with their concept and technology demo projects, even if they know it's unreasonable (it's usually stated how viable they deem it to be at the end of the document), though marketing sometimes ignores this... Another really, really neat one is the Turbosteamer which captures waste energy from the exhaust and coolant. They have quite a few detailed technical documents released for that concept as well, and managed huge efficiency gains at the cost of dizzying complexity.
9:08 Jason: "So here's 2 things we know are true. "
Jason's hand: holds up three fingers 😂
Classic off-by-one error. Ask any software engineer...
I knew I saw 3 fingers lol
@@stephan553 Bingo! "How many fence posts do you need for a 100-foot fence with posts every ten feet?" The obvious but wrong answer, 10, is an off-by-one error.
That's how numbers were counted in 2005, when this video was first concieved.
Well it is in keeping with BMW's figures in the video. 😂
You should have mentioned this car is a limited production made 17 years ago
As mentioned, based on 760i (from ‘06).
I promise Brangelina are just as relevant today.
@@EngineeringExplained I’d rather put money on Brangelina getting remarried than hydrogen ICE becoming a thing in the next 50 years.
@@306maxievo2 Hydrogen/ ICE already have infrastructure in place. The response to the pandemic ruined EV's chance at affording new infrastructure, so it's wise to keep the current system in place until a new one can be afforded.
If you take a 6 month vacation, you can't always afford to buy a new house a couple months later. Basic economics.
Edit: By infrastructure I mean that existing fuel stations and associated properties could be used and due to the similarity in engine manufacturing between current ICE engines and hydrogen engines, most production facilities could continue to be used, along with their current supply chains.
@@matthewmosier8439 there is more EV "infrastructure" than hydrogen "infrastructure" by several magnitudes and true for all countries on Earth.
So what do you believe to be the infrastructure for hydrogen? You cannot simply use the infrastructure for gasoline for hydrogen.
To be fair, GM told you not to park the Bolt in your garage and it leaked energy too.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Haha, what a mess! And they said not in parking garages either, where at least you could park the BMW!
@TheJoncic You win something, I don't know what, but something, for this. Funny AF.
That was only until you got a new (longer range) battery for free.
@@stevesedio1656 it was just a joke. Bolt owner I take it?
The Hydrogen tank was designed & tested by Magna Steyr in Graz.
I was working in the adjacent office to this programme at the time and remember seeing the tank in the test cells having done a burst test and seeing the H7 cars out the front.
Und du erinnerst dich sicher an deine Verschwiegenheitsklausel im Vertrag
@@deppen123
It's in the public domain and has been since 2007.
@@lewis72 i know but i like to scare people :D
@@deppen123
😆
There were BMW H7s with "HYDROGEN" in big letters down each side of the car parked in the Magna car park for months.
It was hardly a secret at time time !
I had a 1978 Ford F-250 that went 1,060 miles per tank of fuel…the fact that it was a 100 gallon tank off a semi truck shouldn’t be held against it.
Sweet! I want a death vent on my vehicle! 😆
You know there’s a way to put an ignition plug and tune it as a fire stack. 🔥
@@EngineeringExplained i can only imagine the faces on people when you start rolling coal in a 2005 7 series BMW 😆
It'd be a big hit at Burning Man
@@EngineeringExplained A mobile hydrogen tank @ 5000psi speeding down the German autobahn .......hmmm.. Did those squarehead Teutons forget the Hindenburg disaster already??
What happens if you have to cut the c-pillar to extricate?
There is only one real celebrity in this video and that is Jason.
Melting my frozen heart. 😭❤️
Love that you left that 489 is less than 435😂😂
Btw think you should do a episode with all these new oils that say extended performance/high mileage
Using Mobil one synth as a example.
... "Hello? Emergency services, what's the nature of your emergency?" "Major car accident involving a hydrogen BMW... no need to hurry, everyone is dead within a 100 meter radius. Please bring structural engineers to assess integrity of nearby buildings."
with the acceleration that this thing has, I'd like to see a "tractor trailor" collision test. that thing would probably send a tractor trailor 50 feet in the air.
When debuted in 2006, this was fairly forward thinking. Europe was tripling down on diesel at the time, Inconvenient Truth had only come out 6 months before this press kit, and the first gen Tesla Roadster was 2 years out.
Hey Engineering explained. I love these hydrogen-related videos. Keep them comming. I work as an engineer with specialization in hydrogen solutions and wanted to share an insight regarding hydrogen ICE engines. Currently there is some ongoing research happening all over. I happened to have a discussion with one of the researches and he said they have been rebuilding an old gas engine to be optimized for hydrogen operation. They have been able to reach efficiency of 1,1 kg/100km, which is very close to that of a modern FCEV. I asked him if there are some benefits to having a hydrogen ICE vehicle over FCEV, and he stated that basically the biggest upside is that you can use hydrogen that is not as "clean" (thus cheaper) and also that it is important to understand that it can work not only with hydrogen, but with standard gas also. So the hydrogen can basically work as the main fuel, and gas will be the "spare" fuel, or vice versa. Very similarly to how it is done today with gas-CNG ICE cars. This allows for highly optimized system that allows you to mostly drive on hydrogen, but minimizes the anxiety from having limited range. Just felt that you might find this interesting :)
It is interesting how competitive optimized ICEs are to fuel cells in efficiency as a number of developmental programs are providing. In addition, the longevity of an ICE is a known while fuel cells have hydrogen purity issues and significantly lower dynamic power range issues.
@@Mentaculus42 A combustion engine running on hydrogen is not only cleaner but it also makes the engine last longer.
@PokemonWithoutFuture interesting, I always found it odd why there was not more research into gas (CNG) type cars. Because rare earth minerals will not solve our current problem for fule cells or EVs, why not try and create a engine that can work on a mix of hydrogen, methane, and perhaps some other fules. As long as the components for the fule are renewable it probably has now major impact on the environment. The main problem with oil we pump from the earth is that we can not make more of it, at least not the amount we consume every day in this modern world. There is almost no talk at all about the problems of fule cells and EVs that use way to much rare earth metals, that is a dead end if people think that can replace all our current vehicles. The diesel and petrol engine will be around for a long time, there is no easy or quick fix for that. Great comment with interesting information.
@@dennisolof9994 My neighbor has a RNG car and fuel is around $2.20 a gallon when gasoline is $5.00 plus. One of the issues with CNG is that it is bit like looking for electric charging stations to fuel up. The RNG stations are not on every corner. You can fuel up at home for around $1.50 a gallon but the compressor cost more than a charger. The big win is in fleet operations like UPS where their delivery trucks and big trucks run on RNG. The only personal vehicle that I am familiar with is a converted Ford pickup truck that has to be special ordered from the factory. Honda had a great Civic, but it was discontinued due to insufficient sales.
You're far far too trusting to think that Engineering Explained cares that real solutions are actually possible.
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FYI this engine was built between 2005-2007. I like that you show us the problem but never the complete solution and those who are trying to solve it, you look down on them and call it absurd.
This is an important milestone in BMW's effort to make cars that are more expensive and less reliable. A self- emptying fuel tank is a nice touch.
🙃
Really like the added humour to the videos.
I remember in the early 2000s they built a few hydrogen Hummer 2's for Arnold in California. They were talking about how in 10 years we would save the planet with this technology. Yeah that really took off.
Yeah and you and I paid for all of it when we bailed out GM’s nonsense
Good ol hybrid capitalism/socialism hard at work.
Now they say EV will save the planet.
A Prius with a COEXIST sticker will save humanity and the planet and San Francisco and stuff.
@@1985230ce strip mine the batteries using fossil fuels, ship them around the world using fossil fuels, refine using fossil fuels, recharge using fossil fuels, last less than fossil fuel vehicles. Lol all EVs do is move the pollution away from the user into the 3d world..... also accelerate quickly.
I hope hydrogen tech keeps improving, even if it seems ridiculous in the present. Improving our ability to store and harness the most common element in the universe seems like a good idea, even if you never put it in a car.
Thankfully we can harness today one of the four fundamental forces of nature: electromagnetism.
Hydrogen as in H2 gas is super common. Unfortunately it's not so common on earth in a freely abundant form as H2. H2 gas is generally quite rare on earth. Hydrogen is usually stuck on to a pesky oxygen in water or trapped to a carbon chain in hydrocarbons. You have to spend a ton of energy just to get the hydrogen free before you can even think of using it.
@@ericwright8592 I shoot stuff into space for a living, how available it is "on earth" is of little concern. Its good tech to have.
Hydrogen cars are just electric cars for people nostalgic about visiting a gas station every week.
Cracked hydrocarbons didn't need much improving. We still boil the raw material like it was done in 1856.
This brings back memories. When I was at my first university, we got to work on the predecessor of thsi car. Also a 7 series, and also a V12, but it had only 180hp. This was in 2000 or so.
The issue, and epiphany are simple energetic equations, and the realization that everything is "renewable", if not for humans and our tech, but for planets.
Great explanation. Keep in mind that this car is 16 years old, just imagine if they kept on doing intense research for all those years..
Yes, I can easily imagine the amount of wasted effort. I lived through to the first launch of the SLS.
@Retired Bore - “progress on ICE has been extremely slow”
There has been great progress!
- better mileage
- better emissions
- smaller engines
- more power in same area
- less maintenance
- less manual tuning
- greater distance of travel
- better ICE transmissions
- greater fuel opportunities
Engines have come a long way!
@Retired Bore - our efficiency & emissions & reliability are so much better now!
Why do you think H2 ICE requires such a difference, since we see engines today with the ability to handle H2, Gasoline, and Diesel?
I really like the thought of a rotary engine with H2 range extender as a plug in hybrid. The rotary can be swapped out for a fuel cell, once they become economical.
@Retired Bore - “hydrogen… unsaturated oils… sludge”
so, why does this matter, to people who are producing H2 pipelines today, off-shore H2 producing wind turbines today, furnaces capable of burning higher percentages of H2 in natural gas today, engines in vehicles 🚗 & boats 🛥️ & planes ✈️ , etc?
Wow, I didn't know how much of a vocal base hydrogen has built up. You've poked the hornets nest. 😆
Haha, me neither honestly! And as I've stated previously, hydrogen fuel cell makes a lot of sense (especially larger applications)! But a lot of folks upset. 🤷♂
I've been on the internet for well over a decade, but I've rarely seen any topic provoke as much vitriol as hydrogen fuel (on both sides)
This is a done deal. Batteries work so much better, and they're getting better quicker.
Because most people dont understand how impractical hydrogen is.
If only you could have hydrogen but store it as a liquid at room temperature!
oh wait...
Man, your video are just perfect. Thanks for everything you do!
It’s Perfect for a person who knows nothing about engines. There is a lot of mistakes said in this video.
As a Paramedic, I know it takes more than five minutes to safely cut apart a car to rescue someone.
I thought the Chevy Volt’s engineering was convoluted, but at least it made practical sense. The Volt didn’t even bother with a transmission because it was an electric car first, with a gasoline backup. And if the battery completely drained, you could plug it into a standard 120v outlet. Not make a special trip to a Hydrogen pump.
This car is similar…
Can be hydrogen first, gasoline second… no hydrogen filling station around, or it sat around for a year, the gasoline can still be used to keep it going!
@@DavidHalko Then why bother with the hydrogen?
@@ColtonRDean - “why bother with the hydrogen?”
Hydrogen can be made in any nation,
Hydrogen can supplement & replace NG,
Hydrogen can supplement & replace gasoline & diesel,
Hydrogen can take unreliable electricity ⚡️ from Solar 🌞 & wind 💨, store it in compressed gas or liquid or ammonia form, and then release it for energy production during peak usage times to stabilize the grid.
Hydrogen based Ammonia can also be used to create plastics, which wind 💨 and solar ☀️ panels have no way of replacing from drilled oil.
Hydrogen is inherently portable, not requiring the strip mining & child labor & slave labor used to make large batteries 🪫 needed to make electricity portable, where lithium battery recycling is energy & labor intensive & not really widespread.
Hydrogen solves so many renewable energy problems, that solar ☀️ and wind 💨 have not addressed, there will be an abundance of H2 which can also be leveraged for automobile 🚙 & truck 🛻 & train 🚊 & airplane ✈️ usage… today…
Until H2 is widespread, gasoline can still be available for the transition, until gasoline is no longer available.
EVs simplicity is on of their greatest benefits, but due the nature of the fuel is much greener for hydrogen tech, i hope it improves a lot in the following years
Conclusion: we need a 12 liter v12
Turbodiesel
Halo?
I did my master's thesis about the tank in this car at the facility where they built the tank. Pretty fancy space technology
Why? We have been using vacuum insulated bottles for decades. What's new about this one? If you answer, go easy on me. I am NOT an engineer.
I remember getting driven a (very) short distance in this thing at the IAA car show in Germany. Must have been the early 2000s.
They were pushing hard for hydrogen back then…
I guess this vehicle solves the problem of hours long traffic delays because occupants are trapped in a wreck for any extended period. The car just burns/explodes after 5 minutes, another 10 minutes to put out the resultant fire, 15 minutes to push the wreck off the road and cleanup. It's doing a service to society.
Love the Pattinson/Stewart burn.
0:00 Yeah, I don't have to imagine it....
About funky powertrains, you might be interested in the never industrialized PSA’s hybrid air system. It wasn’t such a bad idea for compact city cars, but was defeated by a lack of industrial investment. Acknowledging for the bottleneck in battery related raw material, it could still be a viable alternative! I’m sure that other brands also had their take on compressed air/gas micro-hybridation but I don’t know the other projects.
Oh yeah I forgot about those! I would love to have a video on the history of the idea and it's implementation
The idea is a non-starter-- the range of compressed air power is pitifully short, and unavoidably the efficiency has to be very low-- compressing air uts out a LOT of heat, like a 50% energy loss right there, plus when you use the compreessed air it cools off or you have to waste even more energy heating it up!!!! Double- if not triple-crazy.
Batteries made of more abundant materials is a wayyy better solution
@@georgegonzalez2476 for sure, but as a small hybrid system (like the early Prius ones) it makes economical sense maybe. Though I wonder whether a KERS would be an even better option?
“Yeah but are BEV’s *reallly* ready for primetime? Hydrogen is the future. V12 go brrrr!!!!”
Solid counterpoint! 😂
Since we are talking about alternative fuels, what do you think about LPG conversions? Prins offers systems for DI engines now. Since LPG burns cleaner than gas, would that be beneficial for DI engines to avoid carbon deposits? LPG used to deliver a bit less power and poorer fuel economy, is it still the case with today's systems? From what I understand, LPG has a higher octane rating than pump gas, so maybe newer systems take advantage of that? A video on that would be very interesting! Thanks!
I drive on LPG and so does everyone in my family. No power loss with the LPI system. I belive it's a few horses less when using G3. The only car that has problems with carbon is my bmw e46 but that's not because I'm driving on LPG but because I need new piston rings.
I drive on LPG. My 1.3L '05 Swift gets about 31mpg (about 7.5L/100km) on gasoline and 26-28MPG (8.5 - 9L/100km) on LPG. It really depends on the engine. There are instances where fuel economy is practically 1:1 gas/LPG. The biggest bummer is that, I dont have a spare wheel space because of LPG tank. Performancewise, I don't feel anything different, it's a slow car to begin with. Most popular LPG installation are sequential (gen4) - injector for each cylinder
@@KACPER050599 yes we do use more litres when driving on LPG but the price for a litre of LPG is also much better
@@trw8777 For me it's about 20% worse for half the price. Only downside is that I don't have hydraulic valve lifters, so I have do do adjustments manually and some day, propably rebuild the head if I can't buy any thinner shims. That's the nature of M13A engines on LPG
@@KACPER050599 how much power does it have, 69kw? i have been thinking about LPG for my 05 wagon r+ to save some money. great little car
Burning hydrogen in an air breathing piston engine produces NOx. So no, a hydrogen engine does not only emit water, because there are other gases present in out atmosphere, such as 78% of nitrogen, that will be part of the chemical reaction in the combustion chamber. This is where the NOx come from. The best way to use hydrogen as a fuel is in a hydrogen cell battery. This only emits H2O (water).
However, for airplanes, burning hydrogen could be a good way to go because of its very high energy density. That would at least be better than burning jet fuel (refined diesel).
Hydrogen is a non-starter. The energy it takes to create it is more than you get out of it, vs a battery powered car. So, it's less efficient, more complex, and it's only real advantage is a faster refuelling.
13:45. That would probably be correct that the tank could only be filled to 80%. LPG tanks can only be filled to 80% to leave enough headspace in the tank so stands to reason that liquid hydrogen would be in the same boat.
Seems like it'd be pretty easy to make a car go further if you're adding an entire extra fuel tank to do it. That they biffed that one is impressive.
And somehow, even with a giant secondary fuel tank thats filled with fuel of a higher energy density, they still managed to give it less range than the full gas version.
The secondary fuel tank is a great way to make sure that the car is usable, when a hydrogen filling station is not available… and also to make sure the car is usable after sitting in an airport parking lot for a week with a business trip.
The ~20 year old duel fuel is reasonable, similar to a modern plug in hybrid.
@@DavidHalko The range on H2 is 125 miles. There would have to be a H2 fueling station every 100 miles or so.
@@jbrou123 - “range on H2 is 125 miles”
2023 Toyota Mirai XLE has a 402-mile range
Technology improves every year!
Given that it is so well insulated refrigerating it might not use too much energy, i cannot imagine that using a fuel cell to power refrigeration would be more energy efficient than just venting the hydrogen though.
This engine would work amazingly on Titan with a surface temperature of -290 degrees!
It wouldn't work at all. Methane plus H2 is lacking an oxidizer. I suppose you could put O2 in the tank but you would get very little power out of it. The fuel system isn't going to provide enough O2 to burn very much methane.
Talking about fuel with super high pressure storage. We have been using CNG and LPG in cars, we also use them a lot in Thailand. CNG = super high pressure, so high that it needs a lot of safety to be able to use it almost safely. CNG makes a lot less power with the same ignition timing, and it wears the valve seats a lot faster than gasoline due to its slower burning rate. The system for both CNG and LPG require the heat exchanger too, we call them regulator/vaporizer. LPG makes almost the same power as gasoline with a good tune, regular drivers won't be able to tell the difference if setup & tuned correctly for the fuel alone (same timing).
Good thing about CNG is that it can be used in both gasoline and diesel engines. But the thing is it's super slow to refill the tank, and the pump requires super high pressure to be able to fill the tanks. If they are low on LNG(dense liquid) at the pump, they can't fill you the CNG(compressed). While LPG is a lot faster to refill and makes more power with the same setup. I also use LPG(bi-fuel) in my 2 cars, one with 2AZ-FE engine and one with J35Z2 engine. Saves a lot of money, at least half at worst, up to gasoline price at the moment. And I can tune the thing myself with a piggyback CNG/LPG ECU of my choice. I made 278ps with E20 RON95, and 260ps'ish with LPG with same timing and richer Air:LPG equipvalent mixture ratio compared to Air:E20 equivalent mixture ratio.
We have a lot of LPG pumps here, while CNG pumps are decreasing in numbers.
While hydrogen has been mentioned occasionally by some manufacturers and also looks interesting, I don't really know a thing about it. Thank you for spending time to explain it all to us.
Hydrogen is not a "source" of energy. It is a carrier of energy.
The source of energy usually coal or natural gas (fossil fuel) is used to make it.
Part of my guess was there going with liquid over gaseous was that the tank manufacturing for a 5 bar tank was considerably cheaper over a 700 bar tank, and probably quite a bit less explosive in a massive collision. Although I don't know what I'd like less, being subjected to a 700 bar uncontrolled blast of a tank failure, or splashed with LHYD prior to it detonating.
A 700 bar (10,000 psi) vessel would be too heavy. We use vessels capable of just 600psi or 41 bar. The walls are 1" thick.
Ruptured liquid tank would be far more than gas. It holds a lot more energy and would build pressure very fast once the vacuum is lost
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The range part... You had me in stitches 😂😂😂
Today I learned more than I cared to learn, thanks and bravo
This is the best blend of scientific communication and deadpan humor on the internet!
I wonder if you can use liquid hydrogen to cool air for the turbo instead of using intercoolers. I could see its been beneficial for the cars that aim for the top speed since intercoolers induce a lot of drag. I imagine it would be a small tank along the main gas tank to provide that cooling effect AND you can use it as fuel at the same time
Ever hear of the Hindenburg? Hydrogen is highly flammable and reactive. It would explode if sprayed anywhere near a hot turbo. You might as well blow propane onto your inter cooler, it would be safer. Racers already use liquid spray bars or co2 to cool intercoolers.
@@williambrandondavis6897 I know for a fact that it has to be more than 4% hydrogen in the air to make it combustible. I dont think you really need more hydrogen then that to cool air down and make turbo more efficient. Also you dont need inject hydrogen directly into air stream, you could cool down pipes on its way and then redirect hydrogen to the injectors. The only thing I dont know is how gas combusts in the presence of hydrogen in the cylinder (it might cause some issues) - and this might be one of the reasons nobody really tried it (or I never hear about it). Or maybe hydrogen storage is too pricy for that purpose.
Wouldn't you heat the hydrogen, making it expand, needing to vent it and 'consuming' it? Probably doesn't make economical sense to build this complex system and keep filling the tank if an intercooler does the job
@@TAPORZZ14 Yes it is absolutely does not make economical sense - I imagine it will only be possible in cars that aim for the top speed as I said before, like jesko or something like that. I imagine only on speeds around 150mph and higher intercoolers really start to become a massive problem. And if you rich and want really fast autoban trip (or several fast laps on race track) you fill up with hydrogen right before you go. To make it viable for somewhat expensive but really mass market cars hydrogen should be cheap and available at every gas station and I think it really not a big problem if you run out of hydrogen - car just lose some power. Also more strict emission regulations might make it more viable since you don't need so much horsepower to get to the top speed and you burn some hydrogen in your fuel mix.
I think the temperature for liquid nitrogen is way too low so the heat exchange system would become very expensive due to the materials engineering needed to withstand the thermal stress without becoming too brittle.
so now your bmw not only leak oil and coolant but also hydrogen :D genius
I'd use this concept in airplane fuel tanks, where venting of fuel is not such a big problem and infrastructure for refueling is also very precise. Planes are refueled to have the exact amount of fuel every time, and venting of when stationed outside shouldn't be a problem.
Venting is ALWAYS a problem.
Hydrogen can spontaneously combust at certain concentrations in normal air.
At some point between the vent (100% Hydrogen) and a few meters away (100% air), the mixture will reach a spontaneously combustible mixture.
This doesn't happen all the time, obviously, but if we put Hydrogen fueling stations in every city, we will see big explosions. Lots of big explosions. It will happen. Be patient. Get your popcorn and place your chair at a safe distance.
I presume you are talking about jet engine powered airplanes, not piston powered?
@@onecookieboy correct, also the phrasing of my comment was absolutely abysmal.
Hint: Airplanes fly through electrical storms.
Try again.
@@KevinJDildonik I don't see how that would be a problem. Do you mind explaining what I missed?
9:08 - Citroen Xantia II 2.0HDi 110hp - 1130km on 65L of diesel. (~700miles, 17.2gal). 5.7L per 100km (slightly above 41mpg). With 3 ppl and luggage on board. Such a great car.
I love the sense of humor you display in this video
The roof! The roof! The roof is on fire!
You mentioned using gaseous hydrogen instead of liquid, but it should be at 700 bar to get enough density. I cannot imagine how strong/robust the tank would have to be to store hydrogen at 10,152 PSI.
Yes, it's insane pressure.
Ironically, Tesla plans to use something like than in the new Roadster. Not for hydrogen, but for air. They can do that because rockets also use these kind of pressures to store various gases and SpaceX happened to do insane amount of safety testing on these after the had a very expensive explosion.
Rockets use cryogenic hydrogen too. And it's a nightmare, because hydrogen molecules are very small, and therefore leak through anything. NASA's new big rocket (SLS) had a lot of trouble with these leaks. The industry is moving to methane instead, which almost as good overall, but far easier to handle.
H2 cars in California are using 700 bar tanks. At least you can buy 700 bar H2 in some parts of the state. I do not know of any place you can buy liquid H2.
This is the pressure the Mirai uses. Carbon fibre tanks (2 of them). It can take a bullet apparently, not sure about a taking a cement mixer or bridge support though.
I am so glad there are guys like you to fact check those 'innovative' techs for us. Very educative and entertaining for me, Thank you !
This is nearly 20 year old technology.
@@DavidHalko Engines are 100 years old tech, they still can be 'innovative' somehow 🙂not mentioning you didn't grasp the meaning of the ' '
@@Nico_Dica - I guess I did not get the joke.
Life is still burning sugars for fuel, producing CO2, for time immemorial. Humanity is pretty advanced technology, compared to an amoeba.
@@DavidHalko Yeah I was being sarcastic because using H2 in thermal engine is kinda non-sense, they still produce NO2 which is toxic and fuel cells are just more efficient.. but you don't get the vroom-vroom anymore 🤷♂
To proceed forward it is also very important to find out what doesn't really work well in practice. Great vid, great engineering.
In BMW's defense on the safety issue - a fuel tank leak and subsequent fire in a traditional gasoline vehicle can be far worse. Hydrogen vents rapidly, is non-toxic, and does not produce carbon monoxide as a byproduct of combustion.
As for the nascent state of the technology, I think that's going to be the case with almost any new tech. I am happy to see this sort of tech is being worked on, although I too find the media furor over it to be the most noxious part of the thing.
every obstacle can be solved by the miracle of -technology- marketing :D
And money! Don't forget to throw money on it...
@@blahorgaslisk7763 invite hollywood celebrities to endorse your tech with their immense scientific knowledge
These videos convinced me that nothing can replace petrol, it's such a miracle liquid that just works it takes considerable effort to make something that can equal it.
Hydrogen isn’t a fuel “source” in any way that is available to us as it were. Hydrogen is more of a molecule that we can store energy in. We must use electricity to create hydrogen. It’s more efficient to just use the electricity to power the car.
I always enjoy your videos and even though I’m not an engineer - just a guy with somewhat of a mind for understanding - I always appreciate the edification. Thank you!!
Happy to hear it, thanks for watching!
Excellent explanations!
Glad you think so!
This was probably your funniest video man. Awesome.
6:00 This is the most hilarious transition I’ve ever seen
its sick tho
If hydrogen fueling stations were everywhere 20 year later, the car would still work
Here we are, nearly 20 years later, and the car still works
Not such a bad deal
I think hydrogen ice cars are pretty cool! It's not like anyone actually thinks this could be a sustainable way to limit greenhouse gas emissions from cars. It's just a cool way to keep ice cars alive a little longer maybe, like a specialty thing that only wealthy people can afford but idk. I've been following your channel for several years now and the content has definitely changed as most channels do as they grow. I still love you though! 🤘
Reminds me of when my government told me cow farts are warming up the earth but then they went and blew up the nordstream pipeline and released 12,000,000,000 years of cow farts just to piss off some dictator. Not one greenie upset about that tho, just my steak.
@@Bredddi oi vey shut it down!
@@BredddiNo, the cows' emissions have been estimated to 73 million metric tons for the year 2020, wheras the Nord Stream explosions emitted between 56,000 and 155,000 tonnes.
So we're talking about hours, rather than billions of years, worth of methane emissions.
Hydrogen is extremely sustainable.
The production can be done wherever there is water, instead of mining metals for batteries across the world & transporting them to a country & manufacturer the batteries there & transporting the batteries to the place where cars are made & cost to recycle the batteries (seldom ever mentioned) & cost of battery replacement before the end of life of the EV.
Hydrogen is recycled as part of the natural water cycle, after use, where the batteries will require human intervention to recycle, lest the environment is poisoned.
Lead acid batteries are nearly 100% recycled, but even the best Lithium batteries are not recycling anywhere near as well as lead acid, meaning the recycled lithium is just poisoning the water supplies… hydrogen does not have that problem.
Hydrogen is far more sustainable.
Perhaps Porsche will have better success with their synthetic fuels. I just hope ICE can live on in some form (at least for sports cars, if nothing else). But huge respect to BMW for trying, impressive engineering nonetheless.
Liquid H2 is NOT stored at -253C. It sits there at room temperature, and very high pressure. It cools when it leaves the tank (expansion). The problem is not the temperature at which is stored, but the high pressure to make it a liquid. You will see H2 stored at low temperatures in cryogenic rockets which cannot have thick and heavy tanks to handle the high pressures.
It really requires someone with deep insight to present things in this manner.
They need to use the hydrogen instead of the air conditioner. They might also use it to run a turbine, since it’s under pressure.
I mean probably could instead of the freon also might aswell design it to crank automatically every 16 hrs if u stored it with hydrogen in it to just reset the timer otherwise ur just wasting fuel for no reason
Dude that would heat up the hydrogen.
@@Aashishkebab, Is it better for the hydrogen to be cold when it’s injected into the engine? As it decompresses from the tank it’s going to become extremely cold. If there’s a benefit to that, then it might be worth having an air conditioner. But if there’s no benefit, why not get cold from there rather than including an air conditioner on the vehicle?
@@terjeoseberg990 did you even watch the video?
Using it for the air conditioner would put it into contact with air 280 degrees hotter than the hydrogen. It would instantly evaporate and ruin the entire point of the insulation.
Thank God you're not an engineer because holy mother of awful ideas and lack of understanding of the laws of physics.
…
VIDEO SUGGESTION: Changing from an OEM wheel with hardened steel lug nut seat inserts to aftermarket aluminum wheels without hardened steel lug nut seat inserts; How does this effect proper torque value? Especially as the aluminum seats start to gall from the much harder steel lug nuts and become sticky, as they inevitably do, when not lubricated (which "every expert" warns not to do). I wonder if the correct solution may actually be to lube the seat surfaces to prevent the sticking and galling (not lubing the threads), and applying a compensatory torque value due to the lube on the seats. Would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks
Porsche uses washers on their lug bolts which eliminates the wear and tear happening from grinding the lug seat to a stop on a traditional lug. Maybe that's your solution
I think the way for hydrogen, after we figure out a cheap way of production, is to have universal tanks and an attendant and a fueling station swaps it out for the driver.
I get bad "vibes" from the anti-hydrogen crowd. These are the same people who told us that fixing the environment was so important that we had to potentially destroy the existing system worth trillions of dollars.. but also advocate for electric cars which currently still harm the environment, and who now say that anything that has a chance of fixing the problem (nuclear, hydrogen, etc.) is "not a good idea".
Whenever somebody so desperate has so many stipulations about what would fix their catastrophe, it's at least prudent to look deeper into their motivations.
Kinda like what electric cars are going to need with swappable precharged batteries
@Matthew Mosier there's a narrative in the green transport sector that goes like this: Oil companies are bad, Oil companies produce Hydrogen, Hydrogen is bad. This is a narrative reinforced by the now increasingly wealthy mining coroporations, battery suppliers and BEV companies. Its a mud slinging match and people are unwittingly falling for it.
@@matthewmosier8439 model 3 already has less emissions off the production line than average gas car like a rav4
@@matthewmosier8439 vibes /= science
Just a friendly ribbing Jason, but I think you meant the CVS parking lot when you said "car meet"😁😁. Great work, as always!!
The “we know….” and trailing off had me losing it. Very good.
Overall efficiency would be ridiculously low.
My experience with LPG powered cars is that the ignition system has to be in top notch condition to avoid backfires.
My car had a blast vent in the air filter to prevent it blowing apart in such circumstances.
It did backfire occasionally when a plug or ignition lead had deteriorated. The resulting explosion was startling.
I still want the cruising range of an efficient diesel.
I literally couldn't stop smiling all the way through this at your trying sooo hard not to laugh at the BS they've obviously presented the world 😀
BMW should try looking into developing an Electric/Hydrogen hybrid 😁
As an avid firearm enthusiast as well as automotive, I can say that 4mm of even the strongest steel types will neither stop many pistol rounds, nor most rifle rounds. Lvl 3 steel plates, which are only rated for a lot of common automatic pistol rounds like 9mm and .45acp are .25" (about 6mm) of ar500 steel, which is specifically chosen for its resistance to penetration from firearm projectiles.
I'd never like to find out what happens to that tank in an even moderately bad crash, especially with it sitting behind me. The more power it takes to rupture a cannister, the more powerful the blast when it finally does fail. This sounds like a bomb, and that's before we address the whole Hindenburg on wheels part
It might seem a bit pointless, but these are necessary steps on the journey forward. Impressive engineering for sure.
What's necessary about it? It's impressive and fun but I don't think the technology has a possibility of ever being useful for many B2C applications - especially not in passenger vehicles.
@@Muskar2 you're right. Probably not necessary. But sometimes it can be useful to try these things. You might discover something unexpected and useful in other ways.
I 100% want to see that roof vent go off and catch on fire. Dude driving down the road with I giant flame shooting upward.
Mad max out for groceries again!
I really don't think hydrogen is the solution for ICE cars, biomethane and ethanol (E100, not gasoline blends) seem like much better options to me.
Here in Finland, LUT university figured out how to turn cellulose into ethanol quite efficiently, meaning you can turn sawdust into fuel.
Biomethane is also quite easy to produce, lots of farms here in Finland produce it from waste.
Oh, and we also have affordable conversion kits for both fuels, that fit pretty much any gasoline car. CNG conversion kits also fit diesel cars.
BioNG or RNG has a potential to be carbon NEGATIVE. California’s RNG that is sold as a transportation fuel has been carbon NEGATIVE for three years as certified by the California Air Resource Board, a California governmental agency. All large California public transit agencies are mandated to be using RNG for their CNG buses. By 2030, CARB has mandated that no new CNG buses can be procured and is highly subsidizing the transition away from CNG (which as a fun fact was highly subsidized into CNG in the past).
The holy grail of moonshiners all over the world, a way to make booze from wood
@@igornoga5362 No, RNG is mostly produced from Bovine Sh.te, or BS. Seems to be a lot of that being produced these days.
@@igornoga5362 NileRed did it. From toilet paper, basically the same thing.
BTW. There is not enough land to produce biofuel.
Am I the only one picturing driving at night with a torch on the roof driver doing their best mad max impression
I live in Minnesota, known for cold temps if you didn’t know, and this liquid hydrogen model is not making sense for a typical passenger car. Perhaps it make sense for a continuous duty vehicle, like a city bus or mining vehicle. As always thank you for your great content, I always learn something interesting.
So Jason, what is your opinion on hydrogen powered vehicles? You’ve made a variety of videos regarding different fuel sources but do you think there’s a way to save ICE’s? Like porsche’s synthetic fuel or hydrogen etc.
He's already covered this. Spoiler: the answer is no.
Synthetic will likely be the way for motorsport, but unless prices drop, I don’t expect the masses to pay $20+/gallon for fuel. Eventually the cost prohibits most people from using the tech, and lowering cost is a massive challenge, because we don’t have abundant free energy (it all costs something, so the more efficient your use of that energy the better - this doesn’t apply to motorsport bc fuel costs are already high, and it’s a small part of overall budgets).
@@EngineeringExplained I understand, then it is possible to “save” ICE’s, it’s just a matter of a sacrifice (very costly). Thank you for interacting with your viewers!
@@VaneNaumovski ICE will never go away, a bit like steam engines have not gone away - kept going the enthusiasts and steam fairs
@@VaneNaumovski You can afford to pay a lot for fuel to run a Porsche, but it does not make sense to pay that price for your Fiat Punto
The logistics required to handle liquid hydrogen are barely worth it for rockets, it’s insane that anybody ever put it in a car, even if was a limited production engineering stunt.
Jason, I would like you to talk about CNG as fuel for cars. IMO currently it's the best alternative to petrol/diesel/electric/hydrogen/you name it, especially for heavy equipment (trucks/busses/excavators etc.) since It's cheap to manufacture, just like a petrol car, and cheap to run, since the price of CNG is low due to it's abundancy.
Still emits, still has the bad efficiency of internal combustion engines
@@sneaky_krait7271 but is cheaper like 2x than electric. And EVs do emmit, just not out of a tail pipe. And CO2 aint nothing bad really, it stimulates plant growth
@@sneaky_krait7271 - battery manufacturing still emit, energy product for batteries still emit, transportation of batteries still emit, recycling batteries still emit, battery parts not able to be recycled poison the water.
CNG & H2 emit less
@@ИванИванов-м6ч1о Upfront is higher, not double. However in use it is much cheaper. It's true that they emit more during production, however overall it emits less.
@@DavidHalko True that it emits, however they are 95% recyclable. During use it emits a lot less however due to better efficiency
I honestly thought for a hot minute that this video was like 10 years old, going by the promotional photos and the H2 tech described. 😂😂😂
I'm also struct by the seemingly dated design
It's amazing how un-dense Hydrogen is, even in liquid form only 7% the density of water. It's like using lemon batteries to power an electric car
So what would happen if a Tesla and BMW hydrogen vehicle wrecked at high speed?
I wouldn't want to be trapped in that inferno!
A car crash. Is what that’s usually called
Owners debate who's technology is better, conceding nothing.
The smug would combine with George Clooney's Oscar acceptance speech to create the largest smug storm ever in the history of the Earth and destroy the majority of the West coast.
Something along the lines of you got your chocolate in my peanut butter, we can only hope.
The not so hidden sarcasm of this is worth the watch 😅 Fair play to the poor guys that got jobbed with designing this only to find it wasn't really that practical in the end, but for the product owners to then not lose face by trying to sell it knowing full well that bombarding the press kit with number and facts would make it work 🙄 Where does one go to fill up on liquid hydrogen anyway and how much petroleum is burnt to make it in the first place 🤔🙄
Hydrogen comes from natural gas when you take away its carbon dioxide. Thats of course let free into the atmosphere. The poor carbon dioxide...
@@wolfgangpreier9160 and heated to 700-1000C to do so if I’m not mistaken, using erm fossil fuels 🤦♂️
@@Umski Yes, both well delivered by the Russkis. Oh well, what will we do without russian help and energy? We are soooo poor!
@@wolfgangpreier9160 well this is the irony, in principle electrolysis would be the best option for green rather than blue hydrogen, but that needs clean renewable electricity or an excess from low CO2 sources such as nuclear - if there was really a will to move the world to hydrogen then this is the way to do it even with the round trip losses, but sadly it seems there's a hidden agenda and as you point out that seems to point back to one thing...
@@Umski If we had an abundance of free unused electric energy and the factories capable of producing Gigawatts of eletrolyzers then yes: H2 would be a very clean and green way to transport and store energy.
As both is not the case and will not become available before somewhere around 2050-2070 its not a solution for TODAY. Maybe the day after tomorrow.
The funniest thing in this whole shebang is: When we start to disrupt the fossil industry today and gradually switch over to electric energy, batteries and electric vehicles and heaters until 2040 we have three immediate effects:
-> Full employment in the western world
-> 15% less cost for everyone
-> successful reduction of temperature rise to below 2 degrees - therefor less cost of the results of climate changes because of rising mean temperatures. How many trillions those are? Nobody knows.
And one not so immediate result: The big energy suppliers Russia, USA, the Saudis and thier brethren are being cut back to their pre-1960 sizes.
And yes, i know, that will only happen with at least one, maybe a few wars between those loosing and those winning. What else do the Russians do today in Ukraine?
I get the sense that this is equivalent to the Norden bombsight: An elaborate engineering feat that eases the operator’s conscience while missing the target.
Roof vent - kind of like a pop-off valve that used to be (maybe still are?) on Indy cars - pop open when the boost pressure got too high (i.e., above the rule limit) :-0)
Apparently BMW engineering/ R&D has money and gas to burn 🤯