Let's play a game. It's called "let's see how many people read the pinned comment before scrolling down to make their own". We knew we had it, but it was a low priority because Optane's use-cases were few and far between and it faded from relevance shortly after our first video. Intel didn't ask for it back because of the same reasons. Also.. Please... This isn't hardware we bought, nor does it have any actual value. Engineering sample components - especially storage - gets shredded once they are sent back to to the manufacturer anyway. No starving kids were denied access to a 6TB RAM server. The "we forgot" is just a fun hook for the video because I stubbed my toe on the box in the warehouse a little while ago and thought "hey, oh yeah this thing.. maybe it would be a good vehicle for a video on what the heck happened to Optane" In a nutshell: Relax, guy. Also at 2:41 we forgot a zero and should have said 50GB x 120 = 6TB Linus
The Optane Persistent Memory was really good for databases where you had a large amount of random RW IOPS. It was still just WAY too expensive for what it was though.
@@fish3977 I feel like it's always economies of scale. I doubt it's particularly exotic under the hood, just different enough to need new manufacturing lines.
@@djordje1999 When it came out it was a pretty unique thing for a while. But essentially yeah, a year or two later you could just slap NVMe's in a bunch of servers and shard/fragment/split the workload. Optane still good for latency like they demonstrated but I just never saw much of a need for it. I don't think most workloads are sensitive enough to tell the difference between 10ms and 1ms latency. If it is you just throw terabytes of real ram at it now and solve the persistency issue another way.
@@fish3977Partially economies of scale, partially Intel trying the same con they tried once with Rambus again. (Trying to use their market domination to break in a new memory tech with a tonne of patent baggage which means any companies not in on the con are very reluctant to try and figure out manufacturing the stuff unless they have to.) It's a real shame honestly, if it became a true standard free from any single company then it'd have a whole range of uses across the board. Even on my main desktop I wouldn't mind getting a 128GB PCIe drive to use as a dedicated swap device; the latency means it'd be faster than anything else used for swap even much newer NVMe SSDs, the write endurance would benefit that kind of usage and the non-volatility would allow it to remain suitable for hibernation and the like.
This is how things you don't own get sold at a company. Honestly Linus transparency is nice but just do yourself a favor and avoid the target and leave stuff like that out of the video..
FYI: a cryptographic erase doesn't do any (significant) writes: it just erases the key and assumes an adversary will be unable to retrieve the old encrypted data.
I think their point is that the system will have to refill that RAM on every boot, which requires a lot more writing than a storage drive that would just keep it around.
With Motherboard BIOSs it's like with tutorials for port forwarding: "You just open you routers thingie and then I can't help you because every one has a different idea of where to put it"
That's also assuming they even still call it ports. AT&T when I worked for them insisted on calling them pinholes. That was annoying as hell having to translate between their stupid kb articles (which any of the untrained techs would adhere to) and the actual naming.
The insights about Intel's optane were really informative. It's fascinating how something so remarkable could flop in the market due to timing and competition.
The pricing did not help either. It was super expensive. Even now the only PCIe 4.0 Optane model you can buy (P5800X) costs you a nice $800+ used for mere 400GB. Not to mention Intel's stupid decision to keep it to themselves and not license the technology out to other manufacturers,. They could be making a buck on every Optane sold for decades. Instead they are now stuck with half a billion dollar inventory most people dont want.
@@sbrazenor2Optane - is dead. The SSD division than intel sold is called Solidigm. Two different things. Optane was the marketing name. 3DXpoint was the technology name and "Phase Change Memory" was the technology itself. Theoretically someone else could develop something based on this technology in the future.
You won't believe what I found in my basement last weekend. 5 floor-to-ceiling packed pallets with sealed optane drives. That's 3 more pallets than I found two days earlier in the basement.
8:15 That call out to Emily.. I miss Emily, I hope She chooses to return in front of the cameras again sometime. She was such an amazing LTT video host and seeing these technical videos without her knowledge and input just isn't the same.
@@ExarchGaming yeah this has been my worry as well. However, I have a feeling Emily isn't the type of person who is easily phased by bullying or any transphobe, as Emily to me has always seemed like the type of individual who's immune to bullying and above hate. Rather, I hope that the reason they've been off camera is is she is focusing on transitioning, such as waiting until she has some feminizing procedures performed before returning to the limelight (i.e. laser/electrolysis, or even surgical procedures like FFS and breast augmentation, not to mention, the subsequent recovery time), so that when they do decide to return in front of a camera, they can be and project the self-image they wish to share with the world :) Either case, I hope she returns, and her staying away isn't a permanent. As someone who is transgender, seeing someone prominent within the tech media space as Emily was, is so inspiring not only to me but likely countless others who too are trans, gender non-conforming, and allies within the tech sphere.
I miss seeing Emily on here, definitely a noticeable void in the LTT videos since her departure, I hope it isn't because of the loud minorities comments and hopefully she is just working on herself but seeing all the horrible comments on her announcement video I wouldn't blame her from not wanting to be on camera again. All the best to her either way she is an invaluable part of the team and I definitely miss seeing her present.
I almost made a joke about Linus needing to make this video so he could write off the expense.. but I didn’t want to hear him go on that rant during the WAN show again. 😂
if that division is gone and they liquidated inventory then he has to do the vid this fiscal quarter. Now it has a business purpose and likely keeps it from being a $150k gift. 😂😂😂
6:00 I don't know how to do this, but... it should theoretically be possible to write a small C library you inject yourself to override how malloc works. Then you just do your own malloc on the octane drives, and failing that, forward to the base implementation. A mate of mine did something similar using an OpenGL extension to use VRAM as RAM.
That one guy at optain tryign to save the incoming closure "I swear LTT said they will be making a video will give us the exposure we need just wait" ...
Crackhead idea: what if you use that optane server as a cache the entirety of your video server for a Blazingly Faster(tm) video editing experience? Or a stupidly fast Steam cache for the LAN party center?
Well for 4k video 6tb probably is not enough, as I suppose they have multiple editors working at once. But the steam cache is probably a good idea! However networking will limit the speed substantially, I think... And latency is not a benefit if you just want to grab 120gb of the newest cod...? Hm just thinking out loud. What do you think?
It's crazy that just such a short time ago Optane was praised as this "holy grail" and desirable thing. And then suddenly it disappeared and now no one is talking about anymore.
It didn't help that like Linus mentioned, they locked it down to only making sense when paired with their top tier CPUs. It didn't make sense having 1TB support when like mentioned, you could easily just buy 1TB of server RAM anyway. They also didn't help themselves in the consumer space by locking it down to only working on Optane approved motherboards (which meant it locked out AMD CPU users from using it as it was intended). Proprietary tech is not always good and this proved it, even if it was good.
like Linus said, it was too little, too late. It was the coolest sh*t at the time of its inception, but by the time it showed up on the shelves, you could buy all the RAM you'll ever need for $200 and gen 4 SSDs that will outlive the heat death of the universe at about the same price. And as such, there is simply no point.
Optane was a technology that I always hoped would eventually come down in price and become common for consumer use. After Wendell from level1 showed how it affected operating system responsiveness in a video, I was hooked. I check every few months to see if the price of a 1.6tb p5800x come down, only to be disappointed to see that they still go for $3000 on Newegg. I feel like this will be a technology in 10 or 20 years that I will be able to get at a recycling center by luck and finally get to experience its greatness long after it’s obsolete. What a bumber
7:12 THANK YOU! I have been complaining about how motherboards in general still feel like the wild west. It’s insane that we still don’t just have a standardized plug for front IO or that menus are always so drastically different.
Jokes on them I use dearrow to change my thumbnails so I don't even have to complain as my thumbnails are never bad. So do something about it if you don't like the trends. Also are there that many complainers
@@time-alingeJust check out the LTT subreddit. It's often a cesspool of people who hate LTT for some reason. I feel like this topic is brought up constantly. Also see many comments on PCMR and Gamer's Nexus subreddits.
@@time-alingeSame. Also DeArrow user here. It also changes the video titles. I hate having to open a video to find out what it's about. Only to find out im not interested and close it. Honestly i could live with the thumbnails but i hate non descriptive/clickbait video titles. Imagine searching for a video on specific topic only to be greeted with clickbait titles.
@@Raivo_K For me it's the opposite. I used that extension before and it actually made me open each of the videos to find out what it's about. Because the thumbnail usually summarizes the whole video for me instead of a random frame from the video. Kinda counter productive you might say.
@@fallenone4108 I think they goofed in the script and just claimed each floatplane exclusive is 500gb (500*12 would be 6tb which would fit the "fit 12 floatplane exclusives in system ram" statement) All while showing text on the screen claiming each fp exclusive is 50gb not 500gb. confusing to say the least, but surely a single fp high bitrate exclusive isnt 500gb? then again, never watched one so for all i know theyre 8hrs long.
10:15 - I don't give a damn about the face. The ONLY thing that matters, is does the title tell me (generally) what the video is about. And if the thumbnail happens to reflect the title in some way, in case I'm not familiar with the topic, that's all that's needed.
One use case that actually is engineered for the pmem mode of Optane is Aerospike, and you generally only use Aerospike in very specific industries but boy when it’s the right tool for the job it’s killer over other nosql solutions
Hi guys, as a vfx artist, would love to see some houdini simulations on these videos, Ocean or pyro sims will easily scale up to fill up memory (and compute) tasks at hand. and as someone who mainly uses off the shelf consumer hardware, would be lovely to see how high end servers would perform.
10:00 You know, one of the core principles of performing such an experiment, when you don't want to pollute your data, is to NOT tell the test population what you're doing, right? So better filter those results to exclude viewers of this video. Anyway, nice of TH-cam to finally give the option, at least :-)
Died just when it would have got useful. LLMs and image generators need huge amounts of memory. To the point where it is semi common practice to just set a swap file on SSDs and just replace it every few months when it runs out of writes.
@@cartoonhead9222 In other words, it was too expensive for what it does. The question is, was it so expensive to manufacture, or did intel just want too high of a margin.
@@hubertnnnit was actually a tricky tech to manufacture, I think the problem was it never got popular enough for it to hang around long enough to get the improvements that take lots of time. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back once someone figures a hack to the manufacture that gets it a lot cheaper. It is still a cool tech, just too expensive and too niche to have taken off in a huge way like Intel and Micron wanted.
That's actually impressively good for databases. Also, it fits surprisingly good to the lean Enterprise environment, where you don't yet need the distributed side of Enterprise, though having all the requirements on persistence.
I have a P5800x as my Windows OS drive. Snappiest computer experience I've ever had, can basically never kill the drive, and can literally open 100 programs at the same time with not a stutter. Optane is wild, and still worth it.
sucked that they never made them for consumers. Small harddrive accelerators or enterprise grade (with a price tag to match). Sure there was the 900p but that retailed for 400 bucks for a 280 gig drive, when that came out you could have probably bought a 4TB NVME ssd for that price
@@nocturn9xAnd they only made enterprise PCIe 4.0 Optane (P5800X) that even today costs a cool $800+ for mere 400GB model. It's very competitive with PCIe 4.0 NvME in performance, even in sequential performance where 905P gets destroyed but it's so expensive that last summer i could have bought nearly 16TB worth of PCIe 4.0 NAND for that money.
I not even disappointed this is late. I've been wanting a comprehensive breakdown of what happened with optane. ( I'm only to the Segue so far. Can't wait)
I use 16 GB 2nd gen nvme optane SSDs as the boot drives in my single board computers. They work nicely. I also built an Optane thumb drive with a 2242 module and an enclosure.
In a different timeline, Optane + 3D V-cache cannibalize DRAM entirely. With the combined capacity of V-cache and speed/latency of PCIe5 Optane, DRAM would be rendered unnecessary.
There's some dark future where on-package HBM, 3D cache, and 3D X-point (optane) would make a ram monster. You could have 10s of MB of cache, a small pool of HBM to feed the iGPU, and then a big pool of optane storage that is basically both the SSD and main ram.
@ChristianStout We'll kind of see it later this year! Lunar Lake will have all of its lpddr5x on-package, but won't have any external additional channels.
I'm sad that Optane is gone as their Xpoint drives with their insane latency and endurance makes them a really good OS drive and seems like no one else has achieved those I/O speeds since and the crazy new innovations they came up with are really cool too
I mean, 905Ps are selling, they're often in the hot-items list for enterprise storage. If optane had been priced reasonably, and not been vendor locked, we'd probably all be using it by now, for root/boot, with nand for game libraries.
Very nice job! This was so good I broke up with my girlfriend, ghosted her, disowned my parents, and quit my job. I burned all my belongings.I soon got evicted for not paying rent, but had the cops force me out. I then became addicted to fentanyl. Now I watch this while tweakin.
Emily lives!!!! Mentioned at 8:14. I hope things are going swell for them! Also, I think this might be dope for like a Redis cache but, I have a hard time coming up with better use cases.
17:04 I have a feeling the reason these are $5 is that they are 16GB M.2 PCIe 3 modules. 1 TB will cost you over $300, and you will need enough splitters to accommodate 64 drives. Meanwhile, you can get a single PCIe 4 1TB for less than $70. The only thing the Optane solution would be that price adjusted; it offers ~25X more endurance, but no warranty on that.
I got an Optane drive and found it quite good at holding my hard drives index data on my TrueNas box. Great at speeding up the hard drives slow random reads and writes. I wish intel stuck with Optane longer, felt like they did not give it a long enough chance to penetrate the market. Also opening it up would have helped a lot.
I'm honestly not even sure what I am going to do with the 1TB of ram in my newest server that I acquired for cheap. While the obligatory "Please send" would be fun, most people outside of large companies that could have bought it anyway wouldn't even be able to come up with proper use cases for a server of this caliber. Would make a fun project for a super low latency Minecraft (or other game with large maps to load) server. Chunks would load faster than people could traverse them.
Nice server. it "does not have any actual value." and "Intel didn't ask for it back..." I could certainly forget about that server in Arizona if you wanted to send it this way. Great video though. Very informative on how Optane works and how being late to market cost it it's market share.
At 260 MB/s my old ass Optane 900P random 4k Q1T1 read speed is still double or more any SSD I've looked at (typical SSDs are around 70 MB/s), including the latest U.2 enterprise stuff, and it doesn't suffer from a decimation of performance when doing mixed read and write. Pity it didn't work out because it's great tech. NAND flash is really kind of crap in multiple ways, but the price is right.
Can you use these in a standard gaming rig? You advise to not fully populate all the RAM slots because it can sometimes hurt performance, so how about you fill those empty dims with optane and store your most played games in there? Can you do direct storage that way too maybe?
The video mentioned that it needs special support from the BIOS and CPU. You can use the nvme cards on normal PC, but the RAM sticks only on an intel PC with the L version of the CPU.
I feel like optane is that piece of tech that could have been in every intel machine. Once intel noticed they had to much stock, and no one was buying it just start offering it to every prebuilt manufacturer for free or a few dollars until they ran out of stock or until a market was created. Every prebuilt that has a hard drive still should have an optane drive in it already configured to cache the hdd. While its not as normal for an HDD to be included now, it was, and still might be more common if they had an optane cache on board. With a tiny ssd cache insane performance benefits are possible for an HDD.
Timestamped Highlights 00:00 💡 We discovered a forgotten $15,000 server during our Spring cleaning at the studio. 00:56 💡 The server contains Intel Optane persistent memory modules, which were discontinued in 2022. 03:12 💡 Optane can function as both storage and RAM, with extremely low latency. 05:35 💡 Optane's performance is affected by the lack of support and poor documentation from Intel. 08:05 💡 Optane was not widely adopted due to its late arrival, high cost, and competition from AMD. 10:20 💡 Intel still has a significant amount of Optane inventory available for sale. 12:00 💡 Our sponsor, Delete Me, helps protect your personal information online. Summarized by @NoteGPT
I guessed correctly, sort of. On the location of the memory controller settings. The sort of part is once again going back to their preferred nomenclature. Also, as for use case's for the still being sold Optane storage. I have some in my intel rig for capturing video, but I am going to get the 905P I think for gaming. Why? The latency. Sure, it's a slower drive, but aside from load times suffering for booting the game or loading a big area, the low latency is helpful for two reasons. 1. Some games have a bit of an optimization issue with all their smaller textures that load in during gameplay in fast scenes. This results in what is best explained as chug, along with pop-in. I've found with some personal play time that this basically went away almost entirely in most games I play. Some think it's due to the CPU or GPU, but I believe the storage in use is a big part of the equation, because while a lot of the data is already in memory, it's when the game needs new data that the low latency comes in really handy. Since it's not a huge file usually, it's more a situation of potentially many smaller files. Which low latencies are king with. 2. Pagefile. Like it or not folks who are reading this, pagefile is actually needed for some games to even load. It's kind of rare, so your mileage may vary. But for those that do need it, you have to have it on. So why is it a point for Optane? Because when you do have to have pagefile enabled, it's nice to have it enabled on something that can operate at least as fast as slower DDR3 ram already as it is. Roughly. So it' s not that huge of a loss, comparatively to other storage mediums with HDD's taking the cake on this one in a bad way. And because sometimes game files get shuffled off into pagefile land due to how memory gets handled sometimes, this also helps in reducing the performance loss when it does happen. Of course, just having a lot of really fast ram makes having a pagefile mostly unnecessary. But those few games do require it. Tends to be a common theme with ports from consoles for instance. Those of you reading this might even play some games already that need the pagefile to be active, and not even realize it because the pagefile is on by default and haven't turned it off yet. Run into that situation with some folk on discord before.
Got a 120gb optane p1600x as a boot drive for $50 and it's fantastic. By far the fastest m.2 drive you can get including gen 5 ones. Literally reduced my boot time by almost 10 seconds, the system is way faster and ive got really good virtual memory now. Low qd iops/latency will always be king and block sizes on files used to get you to max sequential transfers are almost literally never used and ive verified that with programs too. Suffice to say if u want the absolute fastest get an optane not a gen 5 ssd, it'll give you tangible improvements unlike that.
Let's play a game. It's called "let's see how many people read the pinned comment before scrolling down to make their own".
We knew we had it, but it was a low priority because Optane's use-cases were few and far between and it faded from relevance shortly after our first video.
Intel didn't ask for it back because of the same reasons.
Also.. Please... This isn't hardware we bought, nor does it have any actual value. Engineering sample components - especially storage - gets shredded once they are sent back to to the manufacturer anyway. No starving kids were denied access to a 6TB RAM server.
The "we forgot" is just a fun hook for the video because I stubbed my toe on the box in the warehouse a little while ago and thought "hey, oh yeah this thing.. maybe it would be a good vehicle for a video on what the heck happened to Optane"
In a nutshell: Relax, guy.
Also at 2:41 we forgot a zero and should have said 50GB x 120 = 6TB
Linus
Oh 21 seconds ago.... anyways side note. A spring cleaning video once a year would be pretty cool :D
I hope you had safety sandals on.
So, should I change my spinning discs to cheap optane?
hey
it's ok linus, next time just don't stub your toe
Hi Linus, Intel here: Can I have my server back that we sent and lost three years ago... DM for the return delivery address :D
Intel u owe me a 10900k still, that RMA process was not user error.
No, I'm Intel. And so is my wife.
Intel you still need to give me that 14900k
intel, you forgot to refund me my $300,000, when are you going to do?
I am Sparta... _whoops, I meant..._ Intel! Yes, I am Intel.
The Optane Persistent Memory was really good for databases where you had a large amount of random RW IOPS. It was still just WAY too expensive for what it was though.
I wonder if the price was an "inherent issue" with the technology or due to economics of scale
@@fish3977 I feel like it's always economies of scale. I doubt it's particularly exotic under the hood, just different enough to need new manufacturing lines.
it's cheaper to buy more servers and scale horizontally and you will get much higher IOPS.. ofc if you are using distributed database..
@@djordje1999 When it came out it was a pretty unique thing for a while. But essentially yeah, a year or two later you could just slap NVMe's in a bunch of servers and shard/fragment/split the workload. Optane still good for latency like they demonstrated but I just never saw much of a need for it. I don't think most workloads are sensitive enough to tell the difference between 10ms and 1ms latency. If it is you just throw terabytes of real ram at it now and solve the persistency issue another way.
@@fish3977Partially economies of scale, partially Intel trying the same con they tried once with Rambus again. (Trying to use their market domination to break in a new memory tech with a tonne of patent baggage which means any companies not in on the con are very reluctant to try and figure out manufacturing the stuff unless they have to.)
It's a real shame honestly, if it became a true standard free from any single company then it'd have a whole range of uses across the board. Even on my main desktop I wouldn't mind getting a 128GB PCIe drive to use as a dedicated swap device; the latency means it'd be faster than anything else used for swap even much newer NVMe SSDs, the write endurance would benefit that kind of usage and the non-volatility would allow it to remain suitable for hibernation and the like.
I also always forget my $150.000 server
Hate it when that happens
me too 😔
Same, it’s always in my laundry room cupboard
I always wondered why I was in debt
This is how things you don't own get sold at a company. Honestly Linus transparency is nice but just do yourself a favor and avoid the target and leave stuff like that out of the video..
FYI: a cryptographic erase doesn't do any (significant) writes: it just erases the key and assumes an adversary will be unable to retrieve the old encrypted data.
I think their point is that the system will have to refill that RAM on every boot, which requires a lot more writing than a storage drive that would just keep it around.
0:58 Doing firefly dirty here... ye may take my home take my land tell me where I cannot stand.. but with this crazy ass PC I will be serenity
Burn the land boil the sea you can’t take my PC from me!
With Motherboard BIOSs it's like with tutorials for port forwarding: "You just open you routers thingie and then I can't help you because every one has a different idea of where to put it"
SUCH A GOOD COMPARISON
lmao so true
or PSU manufacturers uses different pinouts on their power supplies, not even within the same model now
That's also assuming they even still call it ports. AT&T when I worked for them insisted on calling them pinholes. That was annoying as hell having to translate between their stupid kb articles (which any of the untrained techs would adhere to) and the actual naming.
That sounds like the horizontal shuffle too.
The insights about Intel's optane were really informative. It's fascinating how something so remarkable could flop in the market due to timing and competition.
The pricing did not help either. It was super expensive. Even now the only PCIe 4.0 Optane model you can buy (P5800X) costs you a nice $800+ used for mere 400GB.
Not to mention Intel's stupid decision to keep it to themselves and not license the technology out to other manufacturers,. They could be making a buck on every Optane sold for decades. Instead they are now stuck with half a billion dollar inventory most people dont want.
They entirely forgot that Optane isn't actually dead, but now a spun off company named Solidigm.
@@sbrazenor2Optane - is dead. The SSD division than intel sold is called Solidigm. Two different things.
Optane was the marketing name. 3DXpoint was the technology name and "Phase Change Memory" was the technology itself.
Theoretically someone else could develop something based on this technology in the future.
@@sbrazenor2 Does solidigm produce any Optane drives though? AFAIK, they continued producing only NAND flash SSDs.
I vacuumed my rug and when I went to clean out the vacuum I found seven of these that I had forgotten about.
You won't believe what I found in my basement last weekend. 5 floor-to-ceiling packed pallets with sealed optane drives. That's 3 more pallets than I found two days earlier in the basement.
8:15 That call out to Emily.. I miss Emily, I hope She chooses to return in front of the cameras again sometime. She was such an amazing LTT video host and seeing these technical videos without her knowledge and input just isn't the same.
2nd'd!
she's probably afraid of the more reactionary parts of the LTT audience. Which makes me extremely sad. We all miss Emily.
I will shout for joy if I see her in another video! Great host, knowledgable and humble. Overall great person.
@@ExarchGaming yeah this has been my worry as well.
However, I have a feeling Emily isn't the type of person who is easily phased by bullying or any transphobe, as Emily to me has always seemed like the type of individual who's immune to bullying and above hate.
Rather, I hope that the reason they've been off camera is is she is focusing on transitioning, such as waiting until she has some feminizing procedures performed before returning to the limelight (i.e. laser/electrolysis, or even surgical procedures like FFS and breast augmentation, not to mention, the subsequent recovery time), so that when they do decide to return in front of a camera, they can be and project the self-image they wish to share with the world :)
Either case, I hope she returns, and her staying away isn't a permanent. As someone who is transgender, seeing someone prominent within the tech media space as Emily was, is so inspiring not only to me but likely countless others who too are trans, gender non-conforming, and allies within the tech sphere.
I miss seeing Emily on here, definitely a noticeable void in the LTT videos since her departure, I hope it isn't because of the loud minorities comments and hopefully she is just working on herself but seeing all the horrible comments on her announcement video I wouldn't blame her from not wanting to be on camera again.
All the best to her either way she is an invaluable part of the team and I definitely miss seeing her present.
00:28 That's a big write off you got there.
The IRS forgot about the 150k server too
Waiting for another 20 min segment of Linus raging on the WAN show.
Fuck.. you got here first.
"Why do we still have this server, Linus?"
"Take a guess, Luke."
"Because you can write it off?"
"Because I can write it off."
Glad to see someone else read between the lines
Ahh, yes, casually forgetting about a $150.000 server, like forgetting about the $40 order from Amazon a week ago.
I almost made a joke about Linus needing to make this video so he could write off the expense.. but I didn’t want to hear him go on that rant during the WAN show again. 😂
if that division is gone and they liquidated inventory then he has to do the vid this fiscal quarter. Now it has a business purpose and likely keeps it from being a $150k gift. 😂😂😂
HMRC isn't going to let them just expense a $150,000 server, gotta capitalize and depreciate.
Your not that special
We might get cheap screwdrivers tho
@@Senthiuz it's a bit outside of their jurisdiction
I know a couple of SQL instances that would loooooove that precious ram !!
love how everyone is saying this 😂 makes sense considering most sql dbs are just huge hashtables
i found two of those lying around in my garage yesterday
same found a couple in my cats bed
I should check inside my GameCube.
Yeah, my dog sniffed one up too
Don't know how he trained for that though...
Accidentally choked on one while eating breakfast
I can’t go to a yard sale without tripping over a couple
6:00 I don't know how to do this, but... it should theoretically be possible to write a small C library you inject yourself to override how malloc works.
Then you just do your own malloc on the octane drives, and failing that, forward to the base implementation.
A mate of mine did something similar using an OpenGL extension to use VRAM as RAM.
That one guy at optain tryign to save the incoming closure "I swear LTT said they will be making a video will give us the exposure we need just wait" ...
RIP in peace to that guy
@@ChristianStout Rest In Peace in Peace? LoL
@@nocturn9x Don't you mean lol out loud?
@@Alejandro192011🤣
yea, lol= lol out loud, so that means lol out loud out loud which means lol out loud out loud out loud, etc etc etc
@@Alejandro192011
Crackhead idea: what if you use that optane server as a cache the entirety of your video server for a Blazingly Faster(tm) video editing experience? Or a stupidly fast Steam cache for the LAN party center?
Well for 4k video 6tb probably is not enough, as I suppose they have multiple editors working at once. But the steam cache is probably a good idea! However networking will limit the speed substantially, I think... And latency is not a benefit if you just want to grab 120gb of the newest cod...? Hm just thinking out loud. What do you think?
floatplane cache....
Yeah sure, i just store my 200k servers in my attic.
Forget them all the time
I feel you linus
we are kin -LS
no other reply let me fix that
No other "other" reply, let me fix that.
No other "other "other"" reply. I will fix nothing
Must be nice to afford an attic after buying one of these, I could only afford a basement. Fml
I love linus (or the editors) ability to explain complex high tech stuff in such nice and simple way...underrated skills..good job guys
It's crazy that just such a short time ago Optane was praised as this "holy grail" and desirable thing.
And then suddenly it disappeared and now no one is talking about anymore.
Kinda makes me sad honestly.
It didn't help that like Linus mentioned, they locked it down to only making sense when paired with their top tier CPUs. It didn't make sense having 1TB support when like mentioned, you could easily just buy 1TB of server RAM anyway. They also didn't help themselves in the consumer space by locking it down to only working on Optane approved motherboards (which meant it locked out AMD CPU users from using it as it was intended). Proprietary tech is not always good and this proved it, even if it was good.
Another on the pile of dead intel promises
there are other 3d nand alternatives that got way more support from the OEMs.
I think it's called CXL
like Linus said, it was too little, too late. It was the coolest sh*t at the time of its inception, but by the time it
showed up on the shelves, you could buy all the RAM you'll ever need for $200 and gen 4 SSDs that will outlive the heat death of the universe at about the same price. And as such, there is simply no point.
0:58 Oof, that Firefly reference cuts deep.
That cruel firefly reference opened some wounds... not shiny
Gorram verse is too cruel
Browncoats unite!
Doubleplusunshiny
It's still too soon for that
That Firefly joke is cruel and unusual. Time to go rewatch it I guess
Leaf on the wind
2:41 that math ain't mathing
Only off by one order of magnitude, I call that close enough.
I was making sure I also wasn’t insane. I even opened my calculator
@@TenForceFallsThe insert is wrong. He says it correctly 10 seconds prior.
@@phoenix9531 well, the text shows 6TB soo still incorect
you expect math from the same people who forgot a 150k server?
Optane was a technology that I always hoped would eventually come down in price and become common for consumer use. After Wendell from level1 showed how it affected operating system responsiveness in a video, I was hooked. I check every few months to see if the price of a 1.6tb p5800x come down, only to be disappointed to see that they still go for $3000 on Newegg. I feel like this will be a technology in 10 or 20 years that I will be able to get at a recycling center by luck and finally get to experience its greatness long after it’s obsolete. What a bumber
0:57 Oh, that hurts. I'm a leaf on the wind.
Whatch how i soar
I will annualy leave a new comment there ... just for the sentimental value.
"Watch how I---" *squelch* *thunk*
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal
@@A-Parently_Gaming How do Reavers clean their spears?
They put it through the Wash
7:12 THANK YOU! I have been complaining about how motherboards in general still feel like the wild west. It’s insane that we still don’t just have a standardized plug for front IO or that menus are always so drastically different.
10:23 Listen up thumbnail complainers! Your fate is in your hands! My money is on status quo because humans are predictable.
Jokes on them I use dearrow to change my thumbnails so I don't even have to complain as my thumbnails are never bad. So do something about it if you don't like the trends. Also are there that many complainers
@@time-alingeJust check out the LTT subreddit. It's often a cesspool of people who hate LTT for some reason. I feel like this topic is brought up constantly. Also see many comments on PCMR and Gamer's Nexus subreddits.
@@time-alingeSame. Also DeArrow user here. It also changes the video titles. I hate having to open a video to find out what it's about. Only to find out im not interested and close it. Honestly i could live with the thumbnails but i hate non descriptive/clickbait video titles. Imagine searching for a video on specific topic only to be greeted with clickbait titles.
@@Raivo_K For me it's the opposite. I used that extension before and it actually made me open each of the videos to find out what it's about. Because the thumbnail usually summarizes the whole video for me instead of a random frame from the video. Kinda counter productive you might say.
5:14 ooof the way it ‘screamed’ once the RAM was taken out. I felt that in my soul
Imagine linus dropping the $150,000 server
It probably happened, they just didn't show it. Now, years later, it started working again mysteriously, so they made a video.
it's solid state, it'll be fine
@@GameCyborgCh
Linus: Hold my beer
Him and the crew should get a couple bat's and go full office space on that server just for the giggles
Postgresql database server with caching enabled. There's some optane benchmarks I want to see.
2:41 the writer forgot a 0 :D
50GBx12 = ?6TB oO , pretty basic fail.
@@benwu7980it’s a typo…
Also read the pinned comment, it specifically mentions you
engagement farming /s
@@inherentlyflawedThe original comment was 6 hour ago while the pinned comment came later so 🕳️
Absolutely no one, Linus we were going to do spring cleaning, but we found my missing $150,00 server, now for our segway to our sponsor.
2:40 Somehow I don't think 12 floatplane exclusives times 50GB = 6TB... more like 600GB
stick says 512 gb on it
Later in the video it says 512GB per stick which equals the 6.144T there are talking about.
@@fallenone4108 I think they goofed in the script and just claimed each floatplane exclusive is 500gb (500*12 would be 6tb which would fit the "fit 12 floatplane exclusives in system ram" statement) All while showing text on the screen claiming each fp exclusive is 50gb not 500gb. confusing to say the least, but surely a single fp high bitrate exclusive isnt 500gb? then again, never watched one so for all i know theyre 8hrs long.
12 x 512GiB Optane sticks + 12 x 32GiB DDR4 sticks. That's 6528GiB (or 6.375TiB, since 1024 GiB = 1TiB) of memory.
@@jperoutekI'm talking about the floatplane exclusives that he mentioned, not about the memory capacity
10:15 - I don't give a damn about the face.
The ONLY thing that matters, is does the title tell me (generally) what the video is about. And if the thumbnail happens to reflect the title in some way, in case I'm not familiar with the topic, that's all that's needed.
I’m so glad the intros are back for good!
One use case that actually is engineered for the pmem mode of Optane is Aerospike, and you generally only use Aerospike in very specific industries but boy when it’s the right tool for the job it’s killer over other nosql solutions
Rookie numbers. I forgot my 500k Nasa Computer in my basement. Found it today👍
Hi guys, as a vfx artist, would love to see some houdini simulations on these videos, Ocean or pyro sims will easily scale up to fill up memory (and compute) tasks at hand. and as someone who mainly uses off the shelf consumer hardware, would be lovely to see how high end servers would perform.
I bet Wendell would do some really weird homebrew AI with it, if it got lost down in Kentucky...
Wendell has access to boards of optane. Moore the merrier.
10:00 You know, one of the core principles of performing such an experiment, when you don't want to pollute your data, is to NOT tell the test population what you're doing, right? So better filter those results to exclude viewers of this video.
Anyway, nice of TH-cam to finally give the option, at least :-)
Oh, I did that too last week!
I'm really liking the intro being back on the latest videos.
2:41 : 50GB x 12 = 6TB? Erm...is that why you always need new storage servers?
Later in the video it says 512GB per stick which equals the 6.144T there are talking about.
@@fallenone4108 2:41 is them saying the size of their floatplane videos
Died just when it would have got useful. LLMs and image generators need huge amounts of memory. To the point where it is semi common practice to just set a swap file on SSDs and just replace it every few months when it runs out of writes.
That's pretty much why it died. People just resorted to using much cheaper storage as 'RAM'.
@@cartoonhead9222 In other words, it was too expensive for what it does.
The question is, was it so expensive to manufacture, or did intel just want too high of a margin.
@@hubertnnnit was actually a tricky tech to manufacture, I think the problem was it never got popular enough for it to hang around long enough to get the improvements that take lots of time.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back once someone figures a hack to the manufacture that gets it a lot cheaper. It is still a cool tech, just too expensive and too niche to have taken off in a huge way like Intel and Micron wanted.
Exactly. A slowish but high ram GPU would also be awesome for this exact reasons.
That's actually impressively good for databases.
Also, it fits surprisingly good to the lean Enterprise environment, where you don't yet need the distributed side of Enterprise, though having all the requirements on persistence.
Loving the Firefly season 2 joke
Man, I hate forgetting about my 150,000 server. Knowing I'm not the only one makes me less embarrassed, thx linus😘
That mainboard and chassis bending at 0:18 😵💫
I have a P5800x as my Windows OS drive. Snappiest computer experience I've ever had, can basically never kill the drive, and can literally open 100 programs at the same time with not a stutter. Optane is wild, and still worth it.
TH-cam has what now? AB Testing thumbnails? Hold my beer
Yeah, that was just casually dropped in there and it's a huge deal that LTT/LMG are using it now.
I was wondering why thumbnails keep changing every time I refresh the page.
@@samwalker7567 they've been using it for a while and have talked about it a fair bit.
10:21 bro is using Mr Beast strats right here😂😂. Keep up the good work👍👍👍👍👍👍
3DXpoint was insane , it was and still is the best for your boot drive as the latency is so good.
sucked that they never made them for consumers. Small harddrive accelerators or enterprise grade (with a price tag to match). Sure there was the 900p but that retailed for 400 bucks for a 280 gig drive, when that came out you could have probably bought a 4TB NVME ssd for that price
@@GameCyborgChConsidering you can buy a 4TB NvME for about 300 bucks now, that sounds about right
@@nocturn9xAnd they only made enterprise PCIe 4.0 Optane (P5800X) that even today costs a cool $800+ for mere 400GB model. It's very competitive with PCIe 4.0 NvME in performance, even in sequential performance where 905P gets destroyed but it's so expensive that last summer i could have bought nearly 16TB worth of PCIe 4.0 NAND for that money.
I not even disappointed this is late. I've been wanting a comprehensive breakdown of what happened with optane. ( I'm only to the Segue so far. Can't wait)
If only you had demonstrated this tech right after receiving the hardware. LTT might have single-handedly saved Intel's Optane Division.
/s
They are pretty irrelevant in the enterprise space. I can tell you as someone that worked in the data center.
Bruh LTT is for gamers and noobs like me not professionals
I use 16 GB 2nd gen nvme optane SSDs as the boot drives in my single board computers. They work nicely. I also built an Optane thumb drive with a 2242 module and an enclosure.
so optane requires normal ram? why not put both on a single DIMM and get benefits form both types?
I think it requires a paired normal ram only in RAM mode.
In HDD mode it does not need to be paired with RAM.
Too soon hitting us with that Firefly reference there. Now all the misbehaving around LTT makes scene...... Ye are all Browncoats.... SHINY!!!
What a great 150k write off 👍
LOL I named my Optane drive 'O:' too.
Well, technically the name is "Optane go brrr" and the drive letter is 'O:'
This server costs more than my entire college education.
You got lucky, it's almost half the price of mine lol.
Wait, you guys pay for education? 😂
@@TheChemizzleyou got scammed then lol
@avonbarksdale2506 Someone with 2 - going on 3 - degrees here, all college prices are a scam 🙄
My house
3:15 what also increases it's endurance greatly is to keep it offline in a closet
THE RICER PC BAIT IN THE BEGINNING AAAAAAAAAA
FINISH THE PC LINUS
could host a killer minecraft server (or many) on this thing with everything sitting in memory the entire time.
In a different timeline, Optane + 3D V-cache cannibalize DRAM entirely.
With the combined capacity of V-cache and speed/latency of PCIe5 Optane, DRAM would be rendered unnecessary.
There's some dark future where on-package HBM, 3D cache, and 3D X-point (optane) would make a ram monster. You could have 10s of MB of cache, a small pool of HBM to feed the iGPU, and then a big pool of optane storage that is basically both the SSD and main ram.
@@DigitalJedithat sounds awesome tbh
@@DigitalJedi The latest Xeons now have HBM on package, so I bet that feature will trickle down to Core CPUs before the end of the decade.
@ChristianStout We'll kind of see it later this year! Lunar Lake will have all of its lpddr5x on-package, but won't have any external additional channels.
Holy crap I just found mine from a garage sale a while back ago too! I was wondering what I could do with it. What great timing.
Give it to Jeff at Craft Computing, he's been on a bit of a bender lately buying weird servers that no one else wants.
Absolutely this!
Today I learned that 600GB = 6000GB.
2:40 That should have been 120 floatplane exclusives, not 12.
Shout out to Emily for coming in clutch for the video and this amazing project.
We miss you, Emily, and hope you're doing well. :-)
Need to see some Emily vids again. They were always my favourite
So glad to see someone else bringing Emily up. I miss seeing them in videos.
Emily was great, miss seeing them in videos, nice for Linus to shout them out!
Based Emily
I'm sad that Optane is gone as their Xpoint drives with their insane latency and endurance makes them a really good OS drive and seems like no one else has achieved those I/O speeds since and the crazy new innovations they came up with are really cool too
You can use the huge amount of memory to run the largest possible large language models.
You think 6TB is enough for an LLM with trillions of parameters? Hah, you're funny.
@@nocturn9xRiiight 🤔
I mean, 905Ps are selling, they're often in the hot-items list for enterprise storage. If optane had been priced reasonably, and not been vendor locked, we'd probably all be using it by now, for root/boot, with nand for game libraries.
Very nice job! This was so good I broke up with my girlfriend, ghosted her, disowned my parents, and quit my job. I burned all my belongings.I soon got evicted for not paying rent, but had the cops force me out. I then became addicted to fentanyl. Now I watch this while tweakin.
Holding onto a $150,000 server waiting for the division that sent it to shutter is the most tax write-off thing I ever did see.
Emily lives!!!! Mentioned at 8:14. I hope things are going swell for them!
Also, I think this might be dope for like a Redis cache but, I have a hard time coming up with better use cases.
I hope Emily can make a regular return to the screen soon but I understand why she might not want to.
17:04 I have a feeling the reason these are $5 is that they are 16GB M.2 PCIe 3 modules. 1 TB will cost you over $300, and you will need enough splitters to accommodate 64 drives. Meanwhile, you can get a single PCIe 4 1TB for less than $70. The only thing the Optane solution would be that price adjusted; it offers ~25X more endurance, but no warranty on that.
Praise be to Emily nice job!!!
6:20 a dubious ROI? Nah, just write it off! 😅
Is this you writing off Intel's write off?
Optane's problem was always that the price didn't make sense.
10k views fell off
Malek it hasn’t even been a hour yet
@@acornexpresspro230 joke
GPU with optane memory extension would have been a godsend for at home enthusiast AI applications
No beard gross
I got an Optane drive and found it quite good at holding my hard drives index data on my TrueNas box. Great at speeding up the hard drives slow random reads and writes. I wish intel stuck with Optane longer, felt like they did not give it a long enough chance to penetrate the market. Also opening it up would have helped a lot.
You look so much better with your beard... Let's show Linus with the amount of likes on this comment for him to grow it back!
I'm honestly not even sure what I am going to do with the 1TB of ram in my newest server that I acquired for cheap. While the obligatory "Please send" would be fun, most people outside of large companies that could have bought it anyway wouldn't even be able to come up with proper use cases for a server of this caliber. Would make a fun project for a super low latency Minecraft (or other game with large maps to load) server. Chunks would load faster than people could traverse them.
Each like, I push-up.
Let hit 3 come on
Nice server. it "does not have any actual value." and "Intel didn't ask for it back..." I could certainly forget about that server in Arizona if you wanted to send it this way. Great video though. Very informative on how Optane works and how being late to market cost it it's market share.
Optane were the killer in terms of reliability compared to even SLC SSDs, too bad they never got cheap enough for consumer usage
At 260 MB/s my old ass Optane 900P random 4k Q1T1 read speed is still double or more any SSD I've looked at (typical SSDs are around 70 MB/s), including the latest U.2 enterprise stuff, and it doesn't suffer from a decimation of performance when doing mixed read and write. Pity it didn't work out because it's great tech. NAND flash is really kind of crap in multiple ways, but the price is right.
Can you use these in a standard gaming rig? You advise to not fully populate all the RAM slots because it can sometimes hurt performance, so how about you fill those empty dims with optane and store your most played games in there? Can you do direct storage that way too maybe?
The video mentioned that it needs special support from the BIOS and CPU.
You can use the nvme cards on normal PC, but the RAM sticks only on an intel PC with the L version of the CPU.
Linus' voice: It could change our thumbnail practices!
Linus' face: It 100% won't, because we absolutely know what the testing will show
It'd be fun to see more videos like this about products and projects that for one reason or another just didn't pan out.
Hey let’s make a video about something completely obsolete. Next week let’s make a video about how to set up a vcr
I feel like optane is that piece of tech that could have been in every intel machine.
Once intel noticed they had to much stock, and no one was buying it just start offering it to every prebuilt manufacturer for free or a few dollars until they ran out of stock or until a market was created.
Every prebuilt that has a hard drive still should have an optane drive in it already configured to cache the hdd.
While its not as normal for an HDD to be included now, it was, and still might be more common if they had an optane cache on board.
With a tiny ssd cache insane performance benefits are possible for an HDD.
Timestamped Highlights
00:00
💡 We discovered a forgotten $15,000 server during our Spring cleaning at the studio.
00:56
💡 The server contains Intel Optane persistent memory modules, which were discontinued in 2022.
03:12
💡 Optane can function as both storage and RAM, with extremely low latency.
05:35
💡 Optane's performance is affected by the lack of support and poor documentation from Intel.
08:05
💡 Optane was not widely adopted due to its late arrival, high cost, and competition from AMD.
10:20
💡 Intel still has a significant amount of Optane inventory available for sale.
12:00
💡 Our sponsor, Delete Me, helps protect your personal information online.
Summarized by @NoteGPT
Intel: Can't wait for Linus to review and boost sales of our new product. 😁👍
Linus: "Waits until product is obsolete and discontinued"
I guessed correctly, sort of. On the location of the memory controller settings. The sort of part is once again going back to their preferred nomenclature.
Also, as for use case's for the still being sold Optane storage. I have some in my intel rig for capturing video, but I am going to get the 905P I think for gaming. Why?
The latency. Sure, it's a slower drive, but aside from load times suffering for booting the game or loading a big area, the low latency is helpful for two reasons.
1. Some games have a bit of an optimization issue with all their smaller textures that load in during gameplay in fast scenes. This results in what is best explained as chug, along with pop-in. I've found with some personal play time that this basically went away almost entirely in most games I play. Some think it's due to the CPU or GPU, but I believe the storage in use is a big part of the equation, because while a lot of the data is already in memory, it's when the game needs new data that the low latency comes in really handy. Since it's not a huge file usually, it's more a situation of potentially many smaller files. Which low latencies are king with.
2. Pagefile. Like it or not folks who are reading this, pagefile is actually needed for some games to even load. It's kind of rare, so your mileage may vary. But for those that do need it, you have to have it on. So why is it a point for Optane? Because when you do have to have pagefile enabled, it's nice to have it enabled on something that can operate at least as fast as slower DDR3 ram already as it is. Roughly. So it' s not that huge of a loss, comparatively to other storage mediums with HDD's taking the cake on this one in a bad way.
And because sometimes game files get shuffled off into pagefile land due to how memory gets handled sometimes, this also helps in reducing the performance loss when it does happen.
Of course, just having a lot of really fast ram makes having a pagefile mostly unnecessary. But those few games do require it. Tends to be a common theme with ports from consoles for instance.
Those of you reading this might even play some games already that need the pagefile to be active, and not even realize it because the pagefile is on by default and haven't turned it off yet. Run into that situation with some folk on discord before.
Got a 120gb optane p1600x as a boot drive for $50 and it's fantastic. By far the fastest m.2 drive you can get including gen 5 ones. Literally reduced my boot time by almost 10 seconds, the system is way faster and ive got really good virtual memory now. Low qd iops/latency will always be king and block sizes on files used to get you to max sequential transfers are almost literally never used and ive verified that with programs too. Suffice to say if u want the absolute fastest get an optane not a gen 5 ssd, it'll give you tangible improvements unlike that.