Star Citizen - Ballistic Weapons & Ares Inferno Nerfed - CIG Responded! Get NORDVPN + BIG Discount | nordvpn.com/boredgamer Tobii Eye Tracker 5 | tobii.gg/boredgamer Become a Channel Member | th-cam.com/users/BoredGamerUKjoin ALPHA 4.0 ARES INFERNO THREAD | robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/ares-inferno-nerfed-in-the-ptu/7551327 Get a Star Citizen Account & Bonus | boredgamer.co.uk/enlist Try Incogni 60% Off - Take Control Of Your Privacy | www.boredgamer.co.uk/incogni Support On Patreon | www.patreon.com/BoredGamer Get GameGlass | www.boredgamer.co.uk/gameglass Donate To The Channel | www.boredgamer.co.uk/donate Direct Paypal Donations | paypal.me/boredgamer Discord | discord.gg/boredgamer Twitch | www.twitch.tv/boredgameruk Twitter / X | twitter.com/BoredGamerUK Reddit | www.reddit.com/r/BoredGamer/ Podcast | soundcloud.com/boredgameruk Checkout Hasgaha's Screenshots | www.hasgaha.com/gaming-screenshots/ LATEST STAR CITIZEN PATCH ALPHA 4.0 OPEN PTU
@@jookmthe “big ship killers” are referencing the Ares ships (Ion and the Inferno). They have been absolutely NERFED INTO THE GROUND since launch and continue to have issues. What MoDeL is saying is the Ares needs to be redone entirely because CIG isn’t even confident in what the Ares is SUPPOSED to do anymore, which is to kill big ships. The Ares has become essentially hot garbage and now they can’t even be good at what they are SUPPOSED to be good at, which is killing big ships.
@undersmack648 Ah gotcha, thanks for elaborating. I bought the Ares ships in game but unless it's a special event with an Idris and Hammerheads, I don't normally come across larger ships that I want to attack so I haven't played with it. I thought the only thing they "nerfed" was accuracy to avoid sniping small ships.
I swear by the time of launch the ARES and ION are just going to have a seat with a npc using a hand held rifle in place of the main gun. Just let the damn thing be ridiculous its a ridiculous design... Just leave it that way
That's part of the problem. They built too many ships with ridiculous designs and roles before they figured out the flight model and are now having a hard time balancing ships and roles. They designed ships so they would sell. Now balance is all out of balance and they still have not figured out the flight model. They are going to have a really hard time balancing some of these ships.
@@TH-qr9vp There are some very cool designs/concepts, and at least at a basic level most of them make a lot sense wither for real world roles or at least very solid sci-fi tropes. Unfortunately, real world military equipment has always been designed to be as unbalanced as possible. Human portable launcher for $200k that can shoot down helicopters worth 10s of millions? Unbalanced! Never mind drones!.. crossbow that takes little training able to pierce wildly expensive heavy armor and well trained (rich) knights? Terrible balance! Makes it hard to balance things.
@@RocketSurgn_ yeah you are totally correct. The biggest threat to tanks in urban environments are infantry with portable launchers. I hope CIG try to push for systems that reward skill instead of rock paper scissors mechanics that we seem to be getting lately. I want certain ships and weapons to have actual defined traits that reward specialization and player knowledge. An example of this could be to allow manual guidance of long range torpedoes instead of having them always rely on ship signature tracking. Being able to direct the weapons to gaps in a ship’s defensive systems where their PDCs or Shields are down would be an engaging and rewarding mechanic. I like what they said about strategically targeting specific areas of ships, I just hope they expand more on that knowledge and strategy aspect of the game in more areas of the game.
@hogfry, the worst thing about it is they're not even that hard to balance. Ares Ion just needs to become a long-range ramping DOT laser, low damage to start, high damage after a number of seconds, over-heat after maybe full ramp +100% (so if it takes 10 seconds to get to full ramp, laser over-heats at 20 seconds) then drop it's maneuverability a little bit. Light fighters now have a margin of error, but they *should* evaporate if they go nose to nose. Big targets meanwhile have the option of concentrating fire on the Ion to force it to evade (and pull the nose off target) but also can take advantage of it's cooldown windows and ramp-up to rotate new shields into place, flare, or warp out. Inferno meanwhile i'd give a significant ROF buff, but a rapid over heat. I'd drop it's maneuverability but buff it's speed. This would emphasize aggressive, slashing passes while the missiles would still give the pilot options for standoff. This would let it dump a lot of damage into large ships quickly, but force it to make relatively linear attack runs and leave it vulnerable on cooldown. light fighters probably get less grace if they do get caught in this model, but the less-flexible and shorter range weapons of the inferno will allow them more time to avoid a nose-to-nose engagement while punishing them if they insist on jousting . . . as it should be. As usual, CIG has all the tools they need to actually do a good job. But they won't per normal, gotta sell those Starlancers and Paladins.
These should be a horrible menace to the verse 😂 . They should do the SAME damage as a size 7 gun on any other ship... That was the whole point on the ship
Agreed. People should have ways to combat these the problem is they knew they were going to slow down the flight with MM they had to destroy the ship after they realized what they did with the stupid new slight model. But I don't agree that they had to touch these at all. It was not right to nerf them that shows that new flight model does not work.
You couldn't be more right. At lease that's how they promoted it, but now? Well now they need to nerf our Inferno ships so we buy the next newest shiny for sale.
While unintended by CIG, the perception of yet another Ares nerf before the new guardian heavy fighter is up for sale is already happening. Will the Guardian now out damage the nerfed again Ares? If so, why would you ever want an Ares? It will be interesting to see what happens with the size 7 weapons on both Ares models (the Ion is ion a particularly bad spot). Some folks are even wondering about the Perseus, as that is a dual size 7 weapon. The impression we get isa that perhaps CIG hasn't quite thought out these larger weapons?
I think your absolutley right about the larger weapons not having been thought through properly. Theyre supposed to be large/cap ship damaging beasts (and in turn would be devastating to smaller craft) but without the planned damage model being in place, they just come off as "overpowered" so have to be toned down. The Larger guns with that intended purpose need to have a crutch against smaller ships somehow, I just cant think what the most sensible way of doing so would be (projectile speeds or rate of fire maybe?) but it certainly shouldnt be by crippling theyre damage output though.
Yeah the larger weapon sizes do just seem poorly thought out in the first place. I already disliked how every gun size feels the same anyway. Feels like they set themselves a trap by using weapon sizes as a marketing tool
I think it's more likely that larger weapons haven't been well-tested. We JUST got the first capital-sized vessel like a month ago, in Live. This also happens to coincide with major impending features (resource management, armor and physicalized damage).
I think backer trust in CIG is a bit shaky right now. A stable 4.0 would definitely help, but I've been bracing for a 3.18-like debacle regardless. Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised when 4.0 goes live.
"It's not a money grab...it's because management said we had to push an entirely new game model on zero notice with no planning and zero testing." This answer isn't really better is it? Now they are saying they aren't greedy, the top of the company is just directionless and incompetent. Nice save!
All of this weapon fiddling boggles my mind! Theyre adjusting all of these things "nerfing etc." in a vacuum of the incomplete damage model we have and it makes no sense. A ship comes down to 3 main things needed in order to properly balance/design/make sense of. Damaging capability (aka weaponry), damage resistance (aka Armour) and Avoidance capability (aka Flight model) NONE of these things are properly implemented yet!! I really wish that CiG would get their finger out and finalise what should have been one of the first things to be nailed down in a space combat game. Until these three aspects are done, no amount of fiddling weapon damage, overheat rates, ammo counts etc etc. is going to make one bit of logical sense. Get the armour/damage model done and implemented properly (as the primary factor thats missing at this time) and everything else will start to slot into place and can be adjusted to where its supposed to be based on each individual ship or weapons purpose and capabilities.
6:35 Really... "You really like that response" them stating, the data provide form the last patch is incorrect and the last reliable stat was in 3.24.1. Nah, that sound horrible.
Ships like Ares are pretty tricky - from one side they should be an absolute meta in DPS, but from the other side players will use them against small fighters like Aurora and insta-kill them, which is not nice. What most folks miss is that Armor Penetration will be a thing in the future, so even if Ares will have similar DPS as a hornet, it will still be the only one fighter that can penetrate heavy armor of sub capital ships, while smaller guns will not be able to even scratch them.
We played with the Inferno the other day with the new changes and overheating gun. It is absolutely worthless now. Glad I melted mine in the last nerf.
it makes sense that there is tension between the community and the ship and flight model teams. This issues surrounding MM and new ships seemingly coming out along with nerfs of old ships is not a good look. I am sure its not intentional but that branch of the dev team is probably favorably viewed from the community. glad to see communication coming from the team though.
Ohh Mann I just posted my comment like this 😂.. you beat me to it, but basically yes. And the thing is they have been doing it way too hard and way to often and there are just alot of people mad and paying attention now.
Nice to see CIG taking the time to respond to these issues but also this highlights what and how to appropriately provide feedback and why being clear and concise is important
It was a bold move to bring the Ares and Ion to the market. CIG unfortunately does not have the spine to leave dangerous ships on the table, when big ship sales are their bread and butter.
Maybe CIG needs to implement mandatory questionnaires when us backers log in. For example, when you log in, you are presented with 5 multiple choice questions while the game is loading like (If you have flown or fought a Crusader Ares, please answer the following (otherwise select “N/A”: The Crusader Ares is A- over powered B-fine how it is C- underpowered
@@XShadowAngel So sometime in the next 4 years it will be good. People keep talking about planned systems to justify bad changes in the PU. But I shouldn't have to drag my nuts through 60 miles of glass so that maybe sometime in the next decade I will see the intended implementation. How about having the complete system or mechanic in the game before you chop shit off an leave a bleeding wound you neglect for years.
I'm not an Ares owner, but it really should be a sniper ship. Have both weapon types generate a significant torque which will make it impractically challenging to aim at nimble targets. It's a realistic and diagetic way to do it. The unwieldiness of those torques can be dialed in for final balance. But come to think of it, that kind of change to ship weapon physics would probably be built in with the flight model, so perhaps that's why we haven't seen a final version of the Ares that is both a sniper and not OP in the hands of no-scope wizards.
@@doogbattlesmoke His opinions are based on fact and I agree he comes off as negative due to that. However, I totally understand where he is coming from.
Camural is a big fan of the game besides BG, he is a favorite. I always like how the sheep out there say he is negative. It's possible they never watched him, or have low comprehension limitations.
@blacksheepboyz why do you have to turn into bashing. I've watched him for years. He has definitely been more angry here lately. It's an observation. A accurate one at that. I still watch some videos and am still subscribed. Just because I post my opinion about it doesn't mean you got it all figured out little fella.
There is a reason we are still playing this build on EPTU. Things are expected to be frequently broken and frequently changing. The important thing is to identify the problems, and that is what's happening. People also need to have some sense of perspective here. A random person is complaining that the dev is not trusting them, when they aren't trusting the dev. Programmers are not customer support, and having worked both jobs, you can believe me on that.
Well, I hope they get that fixed bc the inferno is one of my favourite ships ingame, but I think a stable 4.0 launch is more desirable than anything else atm.
It was always a stupid idea mounting an S7 weapon on a small ship. It will forever be contentious and be a headache to balance. And lets face it they only did it to sell it knowing full well it could never live up to the expectation.
Actually great to see devs getting involved in forum threads. it has to be a very tense tightrope on their part. Yeas, very sad with the ares changes, they were meant to be big, heavy ships that punish you for sitting in fornt of those big guns. Wished the inferno had zero run up time and the charge on ion could be held for that sniper shot.
CIG should take inspiration from the A-10. Big gun yes. Big damage yes. Good armor yes. Good avionics no! Make it to where if you want to use the main weapon for the ion then you need to drain most of your ships power to do it. If you want to use the inferno gun then you need to use most of your ships power to help stabilize the ship when firing.
I understand that us gathering all the info for them will assist in getting things resolved quicker but there is a point were I have a job already. Its great that content creators are getting this data for them but there is also a point when a lot of people are reporting an issue CIG could also do a test to check it out instead of pushing it back to the community.
I have an Ares Ion, but mostly because it's the only livery I like, other paints are just boring and a ship's aesthetic is the number one factor for me. I used to like it a lot, but the nerf took away a lot of the fun I had flying it. It's a combat only ship and combat with it got increasingly tedious. I wish there would be a third variant with a big S7 laser repeater, for the fun of it, or even better, the ability to swap guns for other S7 size weapons.
Open PTU is running fairly well, though full or griefers just camping the outposts, where it gets laggy. Now I've seen 4.0 running pretty well, I'd be keen for them to release it and get rid of the short-term thinking play styles.
I can see how problematic it can be to have users/customers in the role of QA bug hunters. Their expectations are as a customer rather than part of the development process. This also shows how problematic it is to sell ships that will definitely be changed along the way as the entire set of systems is fully realized. I have found that it's best for my mental health to have no expectations that the ships I've purchased will remain as-is and that I may very well need to trade them all out at some point.
It's an inevitable consequence of the nature of the project. There is an underlying intention to be open and share information but as you say, the communication isn't perfect. It can never be perfect and I'm sure there are lots of internal competing tensions given the size of the company and the pressure that everyone must be under. We had a CIG employee on the PTU yesterday (shout out to Dan). He was getting a bit of hate from one player but the majority of us were supporting the dev. I think that's probably a reflection of the player base, we're generally on board and frustration rarely becomes toxic but that frustration is still real.
When a Gladius with NDBs, sitting still shooting the same spot on a Corsair, can kill it within 1 second difference of the Ion doing the same thing with Full Charge Shots...there is a problem. And BoardGamer, while this particular problem may not be a nerf-before-sale issue, don't even PRETEND that they don't do it. We have seen it too many times before to know it is not bugs or coincidence...lol. Keep it 100 brother!
They need to buff the ares line if anything. Just make the Ions cannon have a “cone of fire” I.E., not be very accurate. This means it can do its job of shooting things the size of a sky scraper but be inaccurate enough to not be a real threat to a fighter.
I have the Ion, and after the nerfs, I'm thinking of melting it. The fire rate is too slow and the charged shot needs some work. Like the ability to charge the shot and then have it fire when the trigger is released. They are not what they were intended to be.
Smaller weapons in general feel useless. It seems every ship is getting a Size 4 and up just to compete. I think they just need to a weapon buff across the board. Even with a Size 5 the Intrepid can't handle a fight. So with the Ares now starting to be in that same boat it's just a question of "what's the point"? Ares and Inferno were meant to be fast and hard-hitting medium ship attackers. Now they even struggle fighting fights as they need to fire what feels like 1/10th of their ammo stores
I don't have enough time in game to have a weighted opinion, but I feel like they should tune all the weapons on the higher side. At least until server stability is more reliable. I had a lot of ghost hits, but I also played a lot during IAE.
The game is in Alpha, things are going to get nerfed and buffed over and over again as other ships are added in and the meta and mechanics evolves closer to the final product. We're going to see major swings until the majority of ships are in and ships have been nesteled into their selected niches. Right now whenever ANY ship is added, it will throw the meta into chaos, any time any ship is reconfigured the meta is going to be thrown into chaos. You're an alpha tester and along for the ride
Kinda sounds like CIG isn't as evil as many seem to assume and don't always nerf things to nerf them. Sometimes it's a bug related to a change, and if properly reported they will review it.
The F8C got severely nerfed as well, not even usable now, it does have a unique position in the fighter world though as its a dedicated fighter that only has size 3 and 2 weapons as well its a heavy fighter
leave it to boredgamer to provide the absolute most charitable interpretation of events and continually run interference for CIG and their bad changes. a true company man through and through
It's not an overheat anyway... it's a hard number of rounds that can be shot in a volley. You can shoot 50% of "overheat" then wait 10 minutes and you will still only have another 50% before you have to "reload". The weapon doesn't cool down... it reloads. Maybe they changed it, but that's what I've seen.
They nerfed my Corsair & Redeemer into the "Useless Zone". So I recently purchased the Ares Inferno and now this? 🤔 I guess they haven't sold enough Paladins yet.
They wil probably push 4.0 to live next week because they have planned the guardian sale around the 4.0 launch and CIG probably doesn't want this to be there first year that they don't exceed funding but as the transit system rework is required to fix the elevators that probably won't happen until next year here is hoping it's not a 3.18 again
These nerves seem tough. These ship won’t do any damage. Unlucky for the ship itself. I got one Ingame and the ion felt so off. The numbers on the sheet and my imagination made me so excited to own one.
The Ares really just need their S7 guns to function as S7 Guns. I'd be curious to test the TTK in AC vs. a Warden with 1x S5 (no S2s) or an Intrepid with its 1x S4.
Star Citizen - Ballistic Weapons & Ares Inferno Nerfed - CIG Responded!
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LATEST STAR CITIZEN PATCH ALPHA 4.0 OPEN PTU
They need to just change these Ares ships as a whole they aren't even confident enough to have the big ship killers kill big ships
Give it ground bombs. Boom. Space a-10 warthog
What a weird way to think.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. They aren't confident a big ship can kill a big ship? You're confusing.
@@jookmthe “big ship killers” are referencing the Ares ships (Ion and the Inferno). They have been absolutely NERFED INTO THE GROUND since launch and continue to have issues.
What MoDeL is saying is the Ares needs to be redone entirely because CIG isn’t even confident in what the Ares is SUPPOSED to do anymore, which is to kill big ships.
The Ares has become essentially hot garbage and now they can’t even be good at what they are SUPPOSED to be good at, which is killing big ships.
@undersmack648 Ah gotcha, thanks for elaborating. I bought the Ares ships in game but unless it's a special event with an Idris and Hammerheads, I don't normally come across larger ships that I want to attack so I haven't played with it. I thought the only thing they "nerfed" was accuracy to avoid sniping small ships.
I swear by the time of launch the ARES and ION are just going to have a seat with a npc using a hand held rifle in place of the main gun.
Just let the damn thing be ridiculous its a ridiculous design... Just leave it that way
That's part of the problem. They built too many ships with ridiculous designs and roles before they figured out the flight model and are now having a hard time balancing ships and roles. They designed ships so they would sell. Now balance is all out of balance and they still have not figured out the flight model. They are going to have a really hard time balancing some of these ships.
@@TH-qr9vp There are some very cool designs/concepts, and at least at a basic level most of them make a lot sense wither for real world roles or at least very solid sci-fi tropes. Unfortunately, real world military equipment has always been designed to be as unbalanced as possible. Human portable launcher for $200k that can shoot down helicopters worth 10s of millions? Unbalanced! Never mind drones!.. crossbow that takes little training able to pierce wildly expensive heavy armor and well trained (rich) knights? Terrible balance! Makes it hard to balance things.
@@RocketSurgn_ yeah you are totally correct. The biggest threat to tanks in urban environments are infantry with portable launchers. I hope CIG try to push for systems that reward skill instead of rock paper scissors mechanics that we seem to be getting lately. I want certain ships and weapons to have actual defined traits that reward specialization and player knowledge. An example of this could be to allow manual guidance of long range torpedoes instead of having them always rely on ship signature tracking. Being able to direct the weapons to gaps in a ship’s defensive systems where their PDCs or Shields are down would be an engaging and rewarding mechanic. I like what they said about strategically targeting specific areas of ships, I just hope they expand more on that knowledge and strategy aspect of the game in more areas of the game.
@hogfry, the worst thing about it is they're not even that hard to balance. Ares Ion just needs to become a long-range ramping DOT laser, low damage to start, high damage after a number of seconds, over-heat after maybe full ramp +100% (so if it takes 10 seconds to get to full ramp, laser over-heats at 20 seconds) then drop it's maneuverability a little bit. Light fighters now have a margin of error, but they *should* evaporate if they go nose to nose. Big targets meanwhile have the option of concentrating fire on the Ion to force it to evade (and pull the nose off target) but also can take advantage of it's cooldown windows and ramp-up to rotate new shields into place, flare, or warp out.
Inferno meanwhile i'd give a significant ROF buff, but a rapid over heat. I'd drop it's maneuverability but buff it's speed. This would emphasize aggressive, slashing passes while the missiles would still give the pilot options for standoff. This would let it dump a lot of damage into large ships quickly, but force it to make relatively linear attack runs and leave it vulnerable on cooldown. light fighters probably get less grace if they do get caught in this model, but the less-flexible and shorter range weapons of the inferno will allow them more time to avoid a nose-to-nose engagement while punishing them if they insist on jousting . . . as it should be.
As usual, CIG has all the tools they need to actually do a good job. But they won't per normal, gotta sell those Starlancers and Paladins.
Ares-DS LoL
These should be a horrible menace to the verse 😂 . They should do the SAME damage as a size 7 gun on any other ship... That was the whole point on the ship
Agreed. People should have ways to combat these the problem is they knew they were going to slow down the flight with MM they had to destroy the ship after they realized what they did with the stupid new slight model. But I don't agree that they had to touch these at all. It was not right to nerf them that shows that new flight model does not work.
Yeah but pvp kiddies cried and closed their wallets...
You couldn't be more right. At lease that's how they promoted it, but now? Well now they need to nerf our Inferno ships so we buy the next newest shiny for sale.
While unintended by CIG, the perception of yet another Ares nerf before the new guardian heavy fighter is up for sale is already happening. Will the Guardian now out damage the nerfed again Ares? If so, why would you ever want an Ares? It will be interesting to see what happens with the size 7 weapons on both Ares models (the Ion is ion a particularly bad spot). Some folks are even wondering about the Perseus, as that is a dual size 7 weapon. The impression we get isa that perhaps CIG hasn't quite thought out these larger weapons?
Pretty much,another nerf before the new ship 🤔 not looking too good.
I think your absolutley right about the larger weapons not having been thought through properly. Theyre supposed to be large/cap ship damaging beasts (and in turn would be devastating to smaller craft) but without the planned damage model being in place, they just come off as "overpowered" so have to be toned down. The Larger guns with that intended purpose need to have a crutch against smaller ships somehow, I just cant think what the most sensible way of doing so would be (projectile speeds or rate of fire maybe?) but it certainly shouldnt be by crippling theyre damage output though.
Yeah the larger weapon sizes do just seem poorly thought out in the first place. I already disliked how every gun size feels the same anyway. Feels like they set themselves a trap by using weapon sizes as a marketing tool
I think it's more likely that larger weapons haven't been well-tested. We JUST got the first capital-sized vessel like a month ago, in Live. This also happens to coincide with major impending features (resource management, armor and physicalized damage).
perceived doesn't mean actual nerf. The numbers need to be tested more before saying nerf.
I think backer trust in CIG is a bit shaky right now. A stable 4.0 would definitely help, but I've been bracing for a 3.18-like debacle regardless. Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised when 4.0 goes live.
"It's not a money grab...it's because management said we had to push an entirely new game model on zero notice with no planning and zero testing." This answer isn't really better is it? Now they are saying they aren't greedy, the top of the company is just directionless and incompetent. Nice save!
All of this weapon fiddling boggles my mind! Theyre adjusting all of these things "nerfing etc." in a vacuum of the incomplete damage model we have and it makes no sense. A ship comes down to 3 main things needed in order to properly balance/design/make sense of. Damaging capability (aka weaponry), damage resistance (aka Armour) and Avoidance capability (aka Flight model) NONE of these things are properly implemented yet!! I really wish that CiG would get their finger out and finalise what should have been one of the first things to be nailed down in a space combat game. Until these three aspects are done, no amount of fiddling weapon damage, overheat rates, ammo counts etc etc. is going to make one bit of logical sense. Get the armour/damage model done and implemented properly (as the primary factor thats missing at this time) and everything else will start to slot into place and can be adjusted to where its supposed to be based on each individual ship or weapons purpose and capabilities.
6:35 Really... "You really like that response" them stating, the data provide form the last patch is incorrect and the last reliable stat was in 3.24.1. Nah, that sound horrible.
Yea it's yogis "oops you cought me nerfing shit" response
It feels like they are making a lot of these seemingly out of touch changes, then doing damage control recently
Ships like Ares are pretty tricky - from one side they should be an absolute meta in DPS, but from the other side players will use them against small fighters like Aurora and insta-kill them, which is not nice.
What most folks miss is that Armor Penetration will be a thing in the future, so even if Ares will have similar DPS as a hornet, it will still be the only one fighter that can penetrate heavy armor of sub capital ships, while smaller guns will not be able to even scratch them.
What cig needs to understand is that "big + fast bullet" is a big and fast bullet whether its being shot at a small ship or a large ship
Wonder how great the Guardian will be for a time..
Glad to see that CIG is reaching out, even over smaller issues like this
We played with the Inferno the other day with the new changes and overheating gun.
It is absolutely worthless now. Glad I melted mine in the last nerf.
it makes sense that there is tension between the community and the ship and flight model teams. This issues surrounding MM and new ships seemingly coming out along with nerfs of old ships is not a good look. I am sure its not intentional but that branch of the dev team is probably favorably viewed from the community. glad to see communication coming from the team though.
Thank you for sharing this. Not all of us have time to read the forums every day and I found this helpful.
Really timely and informative, thanks Bored.
Translation: "What actually happened, is we nerfed a ship hard, and will leave it that way if there isn't enough backlash."
Ohh Mann I just posted my comment like this 😂.. you beat me to it, but basically yes. And the thing is they have been doing it way too hard and way to often and there are just alot of people mad and paying attention now.
It’s good to see the devs actually trying to fix issues and asking precise stuff to save on their time so we can play more of the game we love
Being on a crunch, having visual representation for context of an issue is very valuable. Greatly reduces the time to find for issues.
I think it's cool that some cig devs entire career will be with SC n 42
Nice to see CIG taking the time to respond to these issues but also this highlights what and how to appropriately provide feedback and why being clear and concise is important
Nice to see CIG dev engaging with community, especially when not required to, on their time off.
I think this speaks volumes
It was a bold move to bring the Ares and Ion to the market.
CIG unfortunately does not have the spine to leave dangerous ships on the table, when big ship sales are their bread and butter.
Good to have a clarification, the overheating did seem like a bug.
Maybe CIG needs to implement mandatory questionnaires when us backers log in. For example, when you log in, you are presented with 5 multiple choice questions while the game is loading like (If you have flown or fought a Crusader Ares, please answer the following (otherwise select “N/A”: The Crusader Ares is
A- over powered
B-fine how it is
C- underpowered
I'm glad that they aren't intentionally nerding the Ares this time at least
yeah, it great that they are responding. I guess if people felt the Issue Council was more reliable they would not post in Spectrum...
Ion fix when?
F8C deals twice as much damage with far less horrible shooting mechanics so...
when?
Once armor is working, the F8C weapons will do basically nothing against large/capital ships, while the Ares will.
@@XShadowAngel So sometime in the next 4 years it will be good. People keep talking about planned systems to justify bad changes in the PU. But I shouldn't have to drag my nuts through 60 miles of glass so that maybe sometime in the next decade I will see the intended implementation. How about having the complete system or mechanic in the game before you chop shit off an leave a bleeding wound you neglect for years.
@@NatCr3w Drama llama much? Why even play a game in alpha development if you're going to whine over every change?
I'm not an Ares owner, but it really should be a sniper ship. Have both weapon types generate a significant torque which will make it impractically challenging to aim at nimble targets. It's a realistic and diagetic way to do it. The unwieldiness of those torques can be dialed in for final balance.
But come to think of it, that kind of change to ship weapon physics would probably be built in with the flight model, so perhaps that's why we haven't seen a final version of the Ares that is both a sniper and not OP in the hands of no-scope wizards.
Not got a horse in the race but it is always good to hear people seeming to try and actually test things and not just play.
I dont think it was the right call to nerf the Ares ships
neither does Yogi
5:32 aha Camural mentioned - indeed he’s a zero bs empirical tester, I always check with him around ship releases and patches
I used to like him. He has turned much more negative over the last year. He adds much more opinions and less facts of things being addressed
@@doogbattlesmoke His opinions are based on fact and I agree he comes off as negative due to that. However, I totally understand where he is coming from.
@MSFTJustice i agree. Hr does leave out context and discusses issues to fit his narrative. This is why I stopped watching him as much.
Camural is a big fan of the game besides BG, he is a favorite. I always like how the sheep out there say he is negative. It's possible they never watched him, or have low comprehension limitations.
@blacksheepboyz why do you have to turn into bashing. I've watched him for years. He has definitely been more angry here lately. It's an observation. A accurate one at that. I still watch some videos and am still subscribed. Just because I post my opinion about it doesn't mean you got it all figured out little fella.
The bigger issue is going to be CIG locking components behind a PvP wall.
I somehow missed the entire Spectrum exchange, so thank you for sharing it here.
There is a reason we are still playing this build on EPTU. Things are expected to be frequently broken and frequently changing. The important thing is to identify the problems, and that is what's happening. People also need to have some sense of perspective here. A random person is complaining that the dev is not trusting them, when they aren't trusting the dev. Programmers are not customer support, and having worked both jobs, you can believe me on that.
Highly appreciate you making time keeping us all up to date with CIG's progress and updates!
God about time, I've been complaining about the inferno since 3.24.3 went into PTU about the busted gun.
Well, I hope they get that fixed bc the inferno is one of my favourite ships ingame, but I think a stable 4.0 launch is more desirable than anything else atm.
The ion and inferno should be considered light attack craft, not fighters. Their prime targets should be large and larger ships.
Awesome, I hope in the end everything will get worked out correctly
Good to know the nerf is not intentional, the Ares ships have been quite targeted for these sever changes.
It was always a stupid idea mounting an S7 weapon on a small ship. It will forever be contentious and be a headache to balance. And lets face it they only did it to sell it knowing full well it could never live up to the expectation.
Actually great to see devs getting involved in forum threads. it has to be a very tense tightrope on their part. Yeas, very sad with the ares changes, they were meant to be big, heavy ships that punish you for sitting in fornt of those big guns. Wished the inferno had zero run up time and the charge on ion could be held for that sniper shot.
Everytime there is a balance pass it becomes some sort of conspiracy
CIG should take inspiration from the A-10. Big gun yes. Big damage yes. Good armor yes. Good avionics no! Make it to where if you want to use the main weapon for the ion then you need to drain most of your ships power to do it. If you want to use the inferno gun then you need to use most of your ships power to help stabilize the ship when firing.
I can get behind that. Maybe lock the Ares out of shields like the mpuvs are locked out of Quantum. Make it a glass cannon.
My buddy just got an Inferno and my first reaction was "Oh you poor soul.." lol
Always nice to see someone showcasing that yes there is some silence but the devs are responding.
Backers got more conspiracy theories than Alex Jones.
I understand that us gathering all the info for them will assist in getting things resolved quicker but there is a point were I have a job already. Its great that content creators are getting this data for them but there is also a point when a lot of people are reporting an issue CIG could also do a test to check it out instead of pushing it back to the community.
I like the interactivity, and the bug seems reasonable for PTU.
I have an Ares Ion, but mostly because it's the only livery I like, other paints are just boring and a ship's aesthetic is the number one factor for me. I used to like it a lot, but the nerf took away a lot of the fun I had flying it. It's a combat only ship and combat with it got increasingly tedious. I wish there would be a third variant with a big S7 laser repeater, for the fun of it, or even better, the ability to swap guns for other S7 size weapons.
Thanks for the Update.
God they need to make ballistics hot again. A properly sized Ballistics round should shredded a ship.
Good job fetching all these interactions between community and CIG.
The battle against META ships, and the re-balancing will be forever ongoing throughout development, but also the entire life of the game.
Open PTU is running fairly well, though full or griefers just camping the outposts, where it gets laggy. Now I've seen 4.0 running pretty well, I'd be keen for them to release it and get rid of the short-term thinking play styles.
I often wondered how this actually worked
Thanks for the update bored, I like hearing about these exchanges.
I can see how problematic it can be to have users/customers in the role of QA bug hunters. Their expectations are as a customer rather than part of the development process. This also shows how problematic it is to sell ships that will definitely be changed along the way as the entire set of systems is fully realized. I have found that it's best for my mental health to have no expectations that the ships I've purchased will remain as-is and that I may very well need to trade them all out at some point.
It's an inevitable consequence of the nature of the project. There is an underlying intention to be open and share information but as you say, the communication isn't perfect. It can never be perfect and I'm sure there are lots of internal competing tensions given the size of the company and the pressure that everyone must be under. We had a CIG employee on the PTU yesterday (shout out to Dan). He was getting a bit of hate from one player but the majority of us were supporting the dev. I think that's probably a reflection of the player base, we're generally on board and frustration rarely becomes toxic but that frustration is still real.
When a Gladius with NDBs, sitting still shooting the same spot on a Corsair, can kill it within 1 second difference of the Ion doing the same thing with Full Charge Shots...there is a problem.
And BoardGamer, while this particular problem may not be a nerf-before-sale issue, don't even PRETEND that they don't do it. We have seen it too many times before to know it is not bugs or coincidence...lol. Keep it 100 brother!
They need to buff the ares line if anything. Just make the Ions cannon have a “cone of fire” I.E., not be very accurate. This means it can do its job of shooting things the size of a sky scraper but be inaccurate enough to not be a real threat to a fighter.
Good on Yogi for replying, and good on CIG for looking into this matter. Hopefully, it was just a mistake placed decimal.
I have bridge to sell you for cheap!
You sound the perfect owner for it..
What is worse?
A bad design decision or abject incompetence?
I have the Ion, and after the nerfs, I'm thinking of melting it. The fire rate is too slow and the charged shot needs some work. Like the ability to charge the shot and then have it fire when the trigger is released. They are not what they were intended to be.
the Inferno was always my dream ship, but it's been absolutly ganked with nerf bats..
Smaller weapons in general feel useless. It seems every ship is getting a Size 4 and up just to compete. I think they just need to a weapon buff across the board. Even with a Size 5 the Intrepid can't handle a fight. So with the Ares now starting to be in that same boat it's just a question of "what's the point"? Ares and Inferno were meant to be fast and hard-hitting medium ship attackers. Now they even struggle fighting fights as they need to fire what feels like 1/10th of their ammo stores
Feel better and thank you both for all the coverage!
I don't understand how Balistic weapons generate more heat that Lazer weapons. 😂
They need to make two variants of the ares one with the big gun and the other with ballistic and laser repeaters.
I can't wait for 4.0 to drop. Super excited
Get well soon, Zin. Love it when you bring Bored's expectations back to reality time after time!
This hurts my heart as the Inferno is one of my favorite designs, but now this all or nothing ship is without a purpose.
Thanks for the coverage
I don't have enough time in game to have a weighted opinion, but I feel like they should tune all the weapons on the higher side. At least until server stability is more reliable. I had a lot of ghost hits, but I also played a lot during IAE.
The ares ion needs a massive buff
They may not be able to address individual messages, but maybe they could leverage AI to reply under supervision.
Who wouldn't love an LTI token for 4.0!
The game is in Alpha, things are going to get nerfed and buffed over and over again as other ships are added in and the meta and mechanics evolves closer to the final product. We're going to see major swings until the majority of ships are in and ships have been nesteled into their selected niches. Right now whenever ANY ship is added, it will throw the meta into chaos, any time any ship is reconfigured the meta is going to be thrown into chaos. You're an alpha tester and along for the ride
This without exception.
Ballistics balancing is gona take a few patches to get feeling right , We don't even have ship armor yet or ship to ship resistances .
thank you for the clarity
Kinda sounds like CIG isn't as evil as many seem to assume and don't always nerf things to nerf them. Sometimes it's a bug related to a change, and if properly reported they will review it.
The Ares line probably caused the most drama ever 😂
Dev spectrum definitely has pros and cons too. But it's an interesting system
Just want to get onto 4.0 so we can look forward to all the 4.X patches that will finally put the game in a good place.
The F8C got severely nerfed as well, not even usable now, it does have a unique position in the fighter world though as its a dedicated fighter that only has size 3 and 2 weapons as well its a heavy fighter
leave it to boredgamer to provide the absolute most charitable interpretation of events and continually run interference for CIG and their bad changes. a true company man through and through
Ares are ships that are used to fight large ships and I expect they will be balanced for this type of gameplay.
Bought both the Ion and the Inferno two years ago just to see them being nerfed into the ground, feels bad man
It's just a temporary issue; there's nothing set in stone with any of the ships, so why would this be a final look into the Ares series' performance?
Ballistics should be powerful they are a heap of material propelled really fast. there downside is the limited ammo and time to impact!
Hopefully they will get it fixed
It's not an overheat anyway... it's a hard number of rounds that can be shot in a volley. You can shoot 50% of "overheat" then wait 10 minutes and you will still only have another 50% before you have to "reload". The weapon doesn't cool down... it reloads. Maybe they changed it, but that's what I've seen.
They nerfed my Corsair & Redeemer into the "Useless Zone". So I recently purchased the Ares Inferno and now this? 🤔 I guess they haven't sold enough Paladins yet.
Love Yogi, favorite dev.. hope Zin feels better
They wil probably push 4.0 to live next week because they have planned the guardian sale around the 4.0 launch and CIG probably doesn't want this to be there first year that they don't exceed funding but as the transit system rework is required to fix the elevators that probably won't happen until next year here is hoping it's not a 3.18 again
The Ares ships should be like snipers to take out component’s on larger ships.
Or with skill, one shot smaller ships but it should be hard to do.
These nerves seem tough. These ship won’t do any damage. Unlucky for the ship itself. I got one Ingame and the ion felt so off. The numbers on the sheet and my imagination made me so excited to own one.
We need to be able to carry ship ammunition and be able to restock ballistic weapons
The Ares really just need their S7 guns to function as S7 Guns. I'd be curious to test the TTK in AC vs. a Warden with 1x S5 (no S2s) or an Intrepid with its 1x S4.