Douglas Murray: The case against reparations | Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Douglas Murray: Racism...
Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
- Brave: brave.com/lex
- BetterHelp: betterhelp.com... to get 10% off
- BiOptimizers: www.magbreakthr... to get 10% off
- Notion: notion.com/sta... to get up to $1000 off team plan
- ExpressVPN: expressvpn.com... and use code LexPod to get 3 months free
GUEST BIO:
Douglas Murray is an author and political commentator.
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com...
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com...
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
SOCIAL:
- Twitter: / lexfridman
- LinkedIn: / lexfridman
- Facebook: / lexfridman
- Instagram: / lexfridman
- Medium: / lexfridman
- Reddit: / lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: / lexfridman
Black people from the west indies who emigrate to the US, do much better then black from the US. Equally looking people, often living in the same neighborhoods. Culture is a big thing here.
What you’re referring to is known as the “model minority stereotype” and it’s complete nonsense. Systems are more important than culture here. For instance, why then are European immigrants more successful than many white Americans in the poorest regions of the country?
@@Ifinity74 refer to argument: culture
Jaam Margot , generalizations based on statistical data are typically accurate and quite useful.
NYC proved that is BIG lie lol
You made the argument for reparations. What created this culture? Injustices of the past
Of the 10 million African slaves that were sent to the Americas, most of them, about 9 million, were sent to Brazil. A lower estimate of 18 million slaves were sent to the far east. About 300,000 were sent to North America. With that, Brazil didn’t have a civil war with a modern equivalent of 6 million of their current population losing their lives to fight slavery, like the US did. When the English outlawed slavery in the early 1800s, they patrolled the high seas losing thousands of men preventing slave ships as late as 1860 going to Brazil. The English completely stopped every company they had from having any slaves, paying the companies and creating a debt so large that it was only paid off in 2015. There’s an argument to be made that reparations have already been paid. Meanwhile, there are 40 million African slaves at this very moment that have been sent to the Middle East, with no talks of a multi-nation plan to completely stop it, let alone have the Saudis pay for reparations. Western civilizations aren’t unique in their having slaves, even slaves of a different background, but they are unique in their level of self-flagellation for it and willing ignorance of the rest of the world’s atrocities to think they are the worst, the longest-lasting, the farthest-reaching, and have the greatest culpability for it.
Chattel slavery was unique to western society. No one in history treated humans like literal animals. The Irish went through chattel slavery 1st then the blacks .
Where is this data coming from? Your ass???
@@chiefdave4931 Modern day Sudan did not have chattel slavery because of African people, that literally came from the Arab world and Europe
@@TheDichotomyofEverything but the Africans still take part?
About one in ten Haitian children are sold to wealthier families to become “restaveks” or “stay withs” by poor parents who have few other choices
The holocaust survivors got reparations
Do you think slavery plebs and the holocaust are on the same scale? Do you know that over 99% of all people linage have been slaves? The only people to avoid any of this in their linage could be the blue blood Royalty families today. But of course if there was ever a commoner married to the family that would change all of that too!
@@augustbrante8117 but we were promised reparations 40 acres and a mule for the sacrifice so that we could begin our own journey towards wealth… but instead we got laws set in place to hold us back that are still active today… do you realize that police in America were only created to keep slaves in place … I think people just want what is owed
No reply huh??
Exactly
People have to read your comment to reply and I have only just read it today. The holocaust was an attempted genocide of an entire group of people and completely different to slavery. Both are undesirable but completely different things.
Also (when the reparations were paid) the survivors of the holocaust were still alive. The survivors of slavery aren’t alive and nor are the slave owners - some of whom were black! How on earth would you work this out?
You are just looking for a free lunch. Get a job like everyone else!
1:33 that’s precisely because reparative justice was denied in congress. The can has been kicked down the road ever since!
The debt is still owed.
This is Douglas Murray at his best: "Today it’s not even the descendants of people who did something giving money to people who were descendants of people who were wronged (in the past). It’s a wealth transfer from people who look like people who did a wrong thing in the past to another group of people who resemble people who were wronged.
Not really mate, the govt pays the reparations - money out of thin air, to those that were wrong by the effects of slavery and institutionalized racism. By now you should know money is not real and can be created at will. Imagine Bear Sterns was in trouble.
We seriously need to separate banking and state the same way our ancestors had to separate church and state, this is disgusting that Ronald Reagan was introducing crack cocaine in Black Communities while Simultaneously creating the war on drugs that lead to hundreds of thousands of black men in jail, and hundreds of thousands of Black people hooked on drugs. The same president Ronald Reagan was also responsible for giving reparations to Asian Americans for how they were treated during World War II, So its not like this country isn’t capable of distributing reparations, it just seems like black Americans aren’t considered human beings yet. Germany pays back reparations to the entire Jewish diaspora so what stop in the US from paying its dues? During the crack epidemic throughout the 80s African-Americans were arrested like dogs for being hooked on drugs as opposed to the opioid epidemic today where hundreds of thousands of white Americans are hooked on opioids yet none of them are arrested or treated the same way as African-Americans that were hooked on drugs throughout the 80s. Before the crack epidemic in the 80s there was redlining which limited African-Americans from finding financial freedom or achieving the American dream because Blacks were not allowed to move into neighborhoods that blacks desired. The U.S. can send billions of dollars to aid the Ukraine yet this country can’t pay one dollar or at least make an effort to start paying back reparations to African-Americans for the 500 years of free labor this country had in order to propel itself to be the greatest country on earth, America has a lot of potential and we’re so caught up with this race bullshit because the government won’t just pay its fucking dues it literally pays money to everything and everyone else around the world except for the people here at home. There are hundreds of thousands of Americans hooked on opioids that are Caucasian and they aren’t even being helped let alone the African-Americans that have been financially fucked generation after generation because of how this country operates with its domestic policies and its foreign policies. No one on earth went through what African-Americans have been through within the last 600 years. The Irish went through chattel slavery for way less time. Imagine your ancestors going through 250 years of slavery, then financially targeted to systems like red lining where African-Americans were literally disenfranchised which caused many African-American neighborhoods to be poor and in rough situation because of the lack of generational wealth. Western civilization is unique in having CHATTEL SLAVERY which is TOTALLY different than the other definitions of slavery in every other cultures. Most cultures definition of slavery was Europeans definition of indentured servant. The British specifically were the first to practice chattel slavery On the Irish. After approximately 250 years of chattel slavery, African-Americans were continuously targeted by the government to limit The financial rights of Black people. If it wasn’t the Jim Crow laws in one generation then it was redlining in the generation before, then there was Tulsa Oklahoma which was one of many examples of how African-Americans were building commerce in their own communities & creating its own businesses But the surrounding white neighborhoods would invade any black neighborhood that was somewhat successful. There are hundreds of stories in the black community like Tulsa Oklahoma where black men were slaughtered black women were raped and the children were tortured before being killed & the town being burned by the hands of the surrounding white neighborhoods, This happened within America All throughout the 1800s and early 1900s. For all you cunts who believe that what happened in the past 500 years doesn’t financially effect African-Americans today then you’re obviously not paying attention to history. For white people George Washington is a savior and the founder of this country as well as a founding father. For Black people George Washington is the same man who pull the teeth out of its slave’s mouth just to replace his own rotting teeth. (The fucked up part is I never learned about this barbaric slave teeth George Washington thing in school I learned it from Joe Rogan episode #1821 23:00 & he literally says why don’t we learn about this stuff in school !?) This country needs to overcome many challenges and one of them are acknowledging the wrong’s done to African American people & finding an understanding where white Americans can be proud of our history in this country while still having a clear understanding of the wrongs done in this country. We seriously need to disattach the idea of reparations being paid by white Americans. White Americans today are in no way responsible for any issues within the black community. The government should be taking full responsibility of repairing the relationship between African-Americans and the USA by implementing reparations. I would argue that the majority of slaves were sent to Brazil and the Caribbean so technically reparations for African-Americans would specifically have to be paid for by the British and the US government. Reparations For the Caribbean & Brazil should be paid by the governments of France, Spain, Portugal, England, Italy, and the Dutch.
Can you explain why it is a terrible argument or are you just stringing two words together?
Great argument - you see I can do it too without explaining my position.
@@clmclmn21 GGGGGGGGGGGGreat to hear from you. Are you sure you are responding to my comment?
@@clmclmn21It is not a terrible argument, it is a misrepresentation of an argument Murray does not agree with. It speaks more about Murray's character than about the case for reparations.
Does he also believe that ordinary working people should pay for goverment banking bail outs of 2008 even if they never worked at the time? Interested to see what he woukd say on this, because that's what is happening.
Inane analogy.
That is a completely way way way different subject, which I'd suspect he would oppose.
As a Mexican, why am I included in this ?
Were you aware of the racial situation before you arrived here?
Have you ever played yourself off of the racial animosity between blacks and white to get a job?
Are you not in this country benefiting off the blood and hard work of my ancestors??? Are you not in this country leeching off the civil rights my ANCESTORS FOUGHT FOR??? The nerve of you immigrants
@@anthonyjones140 Yeah, imagine some immigrant, taking jobs and depressing the wages, while asking why he should pay reparations.
Before he even arrived here, he knew the racial politics of this country and he figured that he pass himself off as the "good hard working" immigrant (and play himself off of a demoralized people in the middle of struggle).
Must be nice to be _that_ arrogant.
Too weak to build up his native country, so he's gonna _flee_ his land and depress the wages of another land while bellyaching about reparations.
It always amazes me how the case for reparations is somehow SOLELY premised on slavery; even though the US govt literally paid reparations to former slave owners but not to the actual slaves themselves. But that’s a fact people like to conveniently disregard.
Once slavery finally ended, I guess the govt didn’t actively participate in the violent oppression of Black Americans?! I guess Black Americans were peacefully freed and have lived peacefully free of state sanctioned violence and racism against them? It was all peaches and cream up until today.
Never mind the history of state sanctioned AND state sponsored racism up until this day. As if discrimination wasn’t literally codified into local, state, and federal laws. This man and others who think like him are absolutely delirious. A debt is owed. And it is a massive debt. And it absolutely must be repaid.
Slavery, sharecropping, vagrancy laws, segregation, housing discrimination, voting discrimination, hiring discrimination, denial of GI bill benefits (event tho Blacks have fought in literally every war this country has ever waged), denial of land grants (like the Homestead Act), police brutality, gerrymandering, restrictive covenants, farmland theft, lynchings, environmental injustice (think Cancer Alley) and the list goes on and on. This country ACTIVELY denied (and still does) the same rights and privileges it so freely gives to whites. And this isn’t something that happened 200 years ago. In fact, the victims are alive and the perpetrators are also alive.
Can you tell me how reparations are gonna fix any of those issues?
These are crimes committed and endorsed by a ruling class not a race of people
@@izybit Can you please tell me why it has to be explained even further to you? If you are opposed just say that and go away. I literally laid out the case. And I would hope you have the mental acuity to understand how hundreds of years of systemically & violently oppressing someone and denying them the exact same rights and privilege given to another would create undue harm and crippling financial ramifications.
But I suppose I’m giving you too much credit and this is all too much for you to comprehend, digest, and rationalize. But do understand this……your feelings are not superior to facts. These things happened and still happen presently. A harm is done. And restorative reparative justice is owed. Whether or not you agree or even understand.
@@ilikeyoutube3142 Again, how will reparations solve those issues?
You missed this point. All things listed ultimately caused the wealth gap in this country. Now allowing an entire nation of people. To obtain or pass down wealth for over 5 generations is a big deal sir.
Whites received MILLIONS in free land acts. GI bills which allowed them to buy homes. And discriminatory practices that exploited Wealth from the Black American community. While Black Americans got NOTHING. Whites burn down and looted dozens of our self sufficient communities. Which we were giving nothing for.
Reparations is a way of correcting that wealth gap or lack of wealth that was caused by direct attacks aimed at Black Americans.
Douglas makes a great point here. Thanks Lex for the great discussion.
Yep, he nailed it.
- says the jester
On some level, everybody has a case for grievances.
Grievances of the past that is.
True. we can start, but where will it end, is the question.
@@sammybolton2591 and that's why this shouldn't even be a legitimate conversation. It's not as if we're discussing a generation or two ago. It's hundreds of years. In that time major atrocities have occurred to many other ethnicities. Should they get money too? And who pays the money if all of us at some time had a grievance?
@@adams4244 no, nor did anybody in my family tree do that. However, my family was carted off to concentration camps and exterminated by the Nazis. Should I be asking Germany for a handout?
Furthermore, based on your statement do you hold the Africans that sold their own slaves to the Europeans too? Shouldn't they be held culpable? Because Europeans didn't choose blacks because they thought they were inferior. They chose blacks because they were the slave owners of the time who were willing to sell their own people at the lowest price. Slavery isn't a uniquely American thing.
@@adams4244 The point is, nobody is denying historical grievances, we are saying everybody has grievances with the world, so why should one group get special treatment? and why should those who were not even responsible, be asked to pay?
I respect his point of view and I’m not going to say that there isn’t validity but as a black man from north Philadelphia. I’m not for or against reparations. Mainly bc I feel like we won’t ever get anything like that so why even think/dwell on the possibility. But what I will say is that comparing AFRICAN AMERICANS to any kind of socioeconomic/ race/ religion class (jews) is null and void.
I firmly believe that Asian immigrants get more leeway in ascension in this country as have Jews bc THEY ARENT AFRICAN AMERICANS.
You have to understand that Jews and Asians came from cultures that thrived in commerce and business wayyyy before the 1900’s. African Americans came from TRIBES. Our ancestors were not businessman and woman. They were in tribes doing ceremonial dances and eating natural foods in Africa. A completely different way of life.
Also what people don’t understand is the effect that TRAUMA played on African Americans. My grandfathers grandfather was probably a slave. Or bared witness to that. That trauma. That trepidation. That energy gets passed down. My father grew up in the early 70’s where he couldn’t even go in his home that HIS MOTHER WHO IS IRISH LIVED IN BC HIS STEP FATHER WHO WAS ALSO WHITE DIDNT LIKE BLACK Ppl. No it’s not slavery. It’s the 70’s but it’s the residual effects of slavery and the superiority.
We were promised a certain amount of land and cattle after the civil war. We were building our wealth and what happened? The government saw that we were ascending too fast so what they do? TORE OUR WEALTH DOWN in places like Tulsa Oklahoma (black Wall Street) and similar places throughout the south.
What does that breed? Inferiority? Lack of dreaming. Most black people I know don’t even look at the United States flag with the same patriotism that white Americans do. My father is black and white and even he doesn’t. It’s not just slavery it’s about the continued war and beat down of the black psyche that left residual effects through generations.
I can’t even blame my father for how he acts bc he been through some shit I can’t even fathom. So when you compare us to Asian Americans or Jews and I hear an ENGLISH accent thick as hell all I ask is that you go and talk to some African Americans in the hood and ask them about they family tree. And how they’re living now.
Red lining. Prison system. Food desserts. Unaffordable health care. Jim Crow. Policing. My friend has a 700 credit score. Makes 90K a year and couldn’t get a proper loan for his home. It had to go into his girlfriends name WHO HAD A CREDIT SCORE THAT WAS LESS THAN HIS AND SHE CARRIED MORE DEBT. This doesn’t breed the american dream. His name is very Muslim. Hers is very spanish. That was the only difference. Nothing else made sense. The math wasn’t mathing. People try to act like African Americans are lazy. NO! WE DONT HAVE DREAMS BC WE DONT BELIEVE WE ARE ALLOWED TO DREAM BC OUR PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, GREAT GRANDPARENTS AND THEIR ANCESTORS WASNT ALLOWED TO DREAM. In order to dream you have to have the understanding that you CAN DREAM first and foremost. We don’t have resources in the hood. We really don’t. There’s a baseline of things that are needed in order to act like everyone can just achieve the american dream. It’s hard for African Americans to dream. Always has been. We weren’t even allowed to be educated during slavery. You don’t think that has residual effects? You don’t think the pain and trauma of slavery has residual effects? The Jews were embraced and lifted up after WW2. They Went through some profound and unspeakable things. But they were given those basic necessities to be able to safely dream and they also had a prior foundation to fall back on. African Americans were PLUCKED like flowers bunched into ships. Auctioned like cattle. Beaten and raped and abused for hundreds of years and you want to act like reparations is a form of punishment to the living white Americans here. NOOOOOO it’s from the government. We bail everyone else out. Bail us out. We built the foundation of this country. Build us up now.
I’m an anomaly in my family. I was able to make it to college and out the hood and I took advantage of that. I found personal development. Developed a love for business and art and I’m doing my own thing. But most of my friends growing up didn’t have dreams. I didn’t have any tangible dreams myself until I moved out of philly when I was in the 7th grade. People lack nuance and objectiveness in my opinion. I hope Lex & Mr Murray both see this.
It’s not an excuse either. We can be better but everyone can. Give us some proper resources. I don’t think we need money. But we need more attention bc this shit is hard. I’m 28. I had TO CLEAN THE DIRT OF THE HOOD OFF MY BODY AND IT DAMN NEAR KILLED ME. I had to clean that trauma off. Now I’m in the process of thriving. But when I went to college I was able to cultivate those basic necessities that turned on the “dreaming” and “doing” energy in my mind, body, and soul.
Reparations is about resources. African Americans need them.
I’m not angry. I just didn’t like the tone necessarily bc life isn’t black or white no pun intended. It’s very much gray. We shouldn’t speak on things that we lack nuance on. Especially when it comes to other cultures. That’s my point. If you’re gonna speak on it. Then don’t compare. Learn.
wow! Well said.
@@highfidelity909 thank you very much 🙏🏽🥂
If creating more racial tensions is the goal then reparations is the answer. Equality is an honorable goal and hopefully we keep moving towards that goal. But if you want to fan the flames of hatred start taking peoples money away.
Thanks for proving the racism in that narrative. Funny how paying reparations to native Americans or Jews. Who wasn’t even harmed by America. Doesn’t cause any racial tension. Oh the fuking irony. You can’t hide your racism when it comes to Black Americans
They gave reparations to former slave owners.
The government has to pay reparations not white people read a book… not to mention the government did give reparations to white slave owners because they freed their slaves & if you’re against the government taking peoples money away then you should definitely be against the government taking peoples freedom from the day they’re born and forcing them to work for free their entire life until they die. This is what happened for about 7 generations which lasted about 250 years. Slavery wasn’t atrocity like no other and for you to write this comment just comes to show me that you’re a fucking racist because anyone with common sense knows the government would have to pay this shit not white people, many white people in America today didn’t even have ancestors during the time of slavery but I guess common sense isn’t common
What about the Jim Crow Era and the 1960’s? Rosa Parks only died of natural causes in 2005, I understand slavery being long ago but Black Americans were denied resources for much longer after slavery.
Racial tensions are going to happen anyway.
There is no logical or ethical justification for reparations. Its a terrible idea.
So what you’re saying is. Inheritance and the passing of wealth means absolutely nothing??? Funny, because thats how 90% of rich whites in this country got their wealth.
Yet, Black Americans. We’re not allowed to obtain or pass down wealth for at least 5 generations. Then face another 100 years of economic and physical terrorism by their own government. While whites received MILLIONS OF ACRES OF FREE LAND. Access to GI bills etc.
But reparations is not logical??? Wonder if you feel like that about the reparations being paid to the so called native Americans or Jews who America never harmed.
@@anthonyjones140 America has come a long way since the days of slavery, and the people alive now have nothing to do with it. Anything is possible in America, and cynical victimhood mentality is robbing people of their potential more than "whites" ever could.
I think, first of all, we should be very grateful that we aren't living through the times that Lex refers to in his question, and this outlook should underscore any and all responses.
Really??? Natives are living in those times. Yet, they receive reparations??? Also, so what you’re saying is. Inheritance means NOTHING??? So I kept your family from obtaining wealth and passing it down for generation after generation. You meaning to tell me, I wouldn’t not owe your family???
@@anthonyjones140 How do you decide the amount of money which is equivalent to their change in circumstance as a result of being trafficked and used as slaves?
To me one of the most important things to look at would be the quality of life they had at the time where the lived. Its not like they were taking some wealthy African and making them a slave. Some of them probably improved their circumstances (I suspect a small number but its difficult to know, most didn't write, in fact I've never heard that side of the story).
What if we tracked down your family history and you had an ancestor who was a pirate, would you be required to pay reparations to those he robbed?
To me the idea of being indebted because of your ancestors wrong doings is ridiculous.
My fathers father WHO IS STILL ALIVE AT 92 years old in good health went to Korea. My mothers father went to WW2. THEY DIDNT GET ACCESS TO THE GI BILL. This country owes the Black American period
My fathers father who went to Okinawa during ww2 never got his GI bill and he’s white, he also lived his life without complaint, unlike your womanly grandfather.
take ur meds
It could be said this country owes many people. The truth however is you, me and our neighbors ARE this country, now. I owe nobody, you owe nobody, nobody owes you or me. To make you, I, or our neighbors pay for wrong-doings we had nothing to do with doesn't right past wrongs.
This country doesn’t have any money, it’s people do. The people don’t owe you anything.
Facts!!
Just speaking from my own point of view.. If someone just hands me a check for reparations, it’s not that I’m going to burn it, but I’d feel weird about it.. But, to be fair, I’m doing well and identify beyond my “race”..
Personally, I think it’s about the country recognizing and appreciating that we are still benefiting from the foundation that slave labor afforded.. it was a HUGE head start.. if it were taught properly in schools, I think we’d have a greater respect for one another and recognize that this was never a “white” country.. it was ALWAYS a hybrid that continues to grow and add dimensions.. and it has the unique opportunity to express the best that people from all over the world have to offer.. it’s not about people needing to feel guilty.. it’s about people needing to feel GRATITUDE for the sacrifices made to make this possible.. if that gratitude was felt, we wouldn’t ever need to discuss atonement/reparations.. we’d be living out the repaired version as part of our constant evolution to get better and better..
And for the record, I think a greater appreciation for the sacrifice of the Natives is also in order.. as well as recognition of those who immigrated to Angel Island (as well as Ellis Island).. and, yes, to the founding fathers for envisioning the whole thing, even if they were flawed (as humans tend to be).. and everyone who has come here and added to this cutting edge/evolutionary human experiment called America.. whether they consciously decided to or not..
@@adams4244 Again I understand the sentiment but this is asking for emotional reparations instead. All peoples made sacrifices in this country and in different ways. The Indians sacrificed themselves and their way of life, the immigrants from Ellis island sacrifced their lives and labor to forge across the wilderness of america, fighting off grizzly bears, mountain lions etc. The chinese people made sacrifices to built the transcontinental railroad. all peoples have made sacrifices to build this country. selecting one group overtly doesnt make sense to me. my family migrated to the west coast and didnt have slaves. all empires had slaves; all of europe had slaves. in fact the Northern United States abolished slavery at nearly the same time Great Britain did. the southern states were the states that continued to have slavery but they werent really building the future infrastructure.
@@adams4244 the chinese people were slaves. the irish were slaves.
irish immigrants were indentured servants to the British.
of the 10,000 railroad workers Approximately 1,200 died. The Chinese were slaves.
Dude native Americans are receiving reparations as we speak and no one has a problem with it. Its only when the Reparations conversation is geared towards Black Americans. It then becomes a problem. Which is clearly blatant racism. Black Americans were not allowed to obtain or pass down wealth for over 300 years in this country and that’s just the beginning of the argument.
@@anthonyjones140 honestly, I don't disagree with what you're saying.. I do believe that there is a case to be made for reparations.. and with every year you go backwards, the case gets stronger.. however, I believe more strongly in self determination.. I believe we can achieve limitless potential/prosperity without reparations.. I believe that viewing ourselves through another's eyes takes us further away from the goal.. and having the audacity to view ourselves through our OWN eyes, in the fashion of our OWN liking is what transcends all - that goes for every individual.. and I personally believe that if Black Americans can unilaterally transcend race, then the American Dream becomes fully realized.. I don't look at my ancestors as downtrodden.. I see them among the strongest souls that ever graced the earth.. I see it as my duty to tap into that strength and rise above any paradigm in order to create my own paradigms.. and at the end of the day, I believe we're all reflections of one another.. and I can't expect my reflection to smile at me before I smile first.. again, that's my personal perspective
"benefiting from the foundation that slave labor afforded" absolutely miniscule
He is swimming in deep waters, very shallowly.
The depth you perceive is an illusion.
Of course...he is British LOL
seems to be a certain demographic against reparations 😒
To me the whole idea of reparations is just virtue signaling catcalling.
It is - there is no ethical way to carry it out from a logical standpoint.
They gave former slave owners reparations causing white America to go full karen.
It's a big HARD NO!!
I concede that when we're talking about generations and generations past it does get hazy. With Apartheid and the Holocaust those instances were rather recent in the scheme of history. Slavery still has echoes of damage to their descendants (myself included). How does one monetize an experience like that perceived or not? Is indemnity even possible at this point?
it is very possible, don’t second guess this at all.
@@terryj33 the number is astronomical honestly
Gibs
@@terryj33 i see the outcome is we are going to complicate this issue into where it doesn’t happen at all and just a through project.
I’m Irish descent. I want my reparations too
Reparations is theft against those who would be forced to pay it even though both parties have nothing to do with said fact.
Assuming reparations are paid and it some how solves everything (which I think is impossible) When do reparations end?
@@xMXWLx you honestly think either party will ever allow ghettos to go away?
Until a decent level of opportunity can be had for the oppressed. That is a fair shot at educational and financial success. It will take a very long time no doubt because goverment policys have actually regressed the issue considerably since the 90s.
@@robertpirsig5011 that’s highly subjective and not something everyone can necessarily agree upon. There would have to be objective measures, otherwise it would quite literally go on forever. We all know political interests work. It’s a large part in why nothing gets done in the first place.
In the end, it’s never going to happen. It’s not practical and there are far more effective ways fix the issues of them being disadvantaged.
@@bigskeet This is one of the many conundrums related to this topic that cannot be answered, which leads to the inability for it to ever happen.
It ends after each African American gets $350,000 which is what’s owed to Black Americans, this number is specifically 6Trillion dollars which was a mere 15% of the total amount of money made by the USA from slavery.
Government owes me millions.
He makes an argument against a specific form of reparations, where all the white people would pay American descendants of slavery. But, this form of reparations was not mentioned as a serious option within the Democratic party at all. Especially with the income inequality as high as in Europe during the f*cking middle ages, it should be the 1% who would pay reperations to the 99%.
And that woudl probobaly come in the shape of scholarships and cheap loans rather than whit person A paying money to black person B.
All Americans would pay for reparations including BLACK AMERICANS.
Is it fair Black Americans have to pay reparations to native Americans, Jews and Japanese??? Will we have and still do with native Americans.
I don't think it's all Asian Americans though. The Asian American community is obviously not one community and extremely diverse with an incredibly vibrant groups of people. And so Indians on average might be making more money than the average Malaysian for example and the average Malaysian could actually be doing worse than the average Caucasian or something along those lines. Jon Oliver had a whole segment on it. I highly encourage you guys to check it out. Very informative. Nothing against Murray's point btw, just wanted to add this detail.
Pointing out that Asians do better in general isn't saying that all Asians do well. In the same way there are plenty of wealthy black Americans.
I think it demonstrates that there isn't some system of racism holding people who do poorly back, its culture for the most part. Single parent homes do worse in general and black families have single parent homes more often than other groups. There are many other cultural differences some positive, others negative. You shouldn't expect the same results without the same culture.
Go to Apalachicola and see how white people are living.
The elite 0.5% people may be white.
The average of top earning ethnic groups in America, whites are 3rd or 4th, depending on your source.
Sooooo..... why should all white people bear the brunt of a few elites??? Incase you haven't noticed..... we, the working class, who have nothing to do with slavery, are all in the same shitty sinking boat.
Is it because he has an accent that people think he's a smart? 🤔 He's obviously floundering at this point
He’s a smart? You’re floundering
@@fordifly1368 with that intellectual response, I bet you love lamp.
@@MrDrunkNFunky “HAHAHA you made a gramatical error therefore you lose!” -fordifly
@@robertotolentino1542 hahahaha you’re calling someone dumb but screw up your sentence. 🤣👎
You really can't separate Black American culture from American culture as a whole. Nothing has ever happened in a vacuum in this country.
American culture is largely black culture. Look at the music, the styles, the celebrities. They are intertwined.
@@thecrossbow3370 Word to the wise: *less is more* .
No one goes to a _TH-cam comment section_ to read an _essay_ .
@@thecrossbow3370 *Your vanity is the problem* .
Your's is but ONE perspective among almost _9 billion people_ on this tiny insignificant planet.
*Nobody* goes onto a TH-cam comment section to read your _stream of consciousness_ .
The purpose of life, is to experience oneself. Not to experience YOUR personal brand of misery and indifference.
@@thecrossbow3370 Oh, so you're literally a *"Keyboard Warrior"* . Otherwise, you've got a funny definition of "fighting".
If you wanna be useful, go CREATE some jobs.
Unless you're attempting to bore our enemies to death, we can't really use your brand of "fighting skills".
We need jobs. We can't _eat_ your profound _stream of consciousness_ .
We can't even read it.
Sure kid. You need a _'time out'_ .
Go fix yourself a sandwich and take a nap.
These are straw man arguments. Individuals do not pay reparations, the government does through taxation or affirmative action. This has been a rather silly conversation
Who pays the government? 🤔
@@stiffy4225 We all do. The rich pay more, like they would fit everything else.
Where do you think taxes come from?
I think we should learn from it and move on!😌
How does Black Americans move on from it??? Easy for whites and everyone else who pocketed the WEALTH. That came along with slavery and exploitation of the Black American community. But that’s something Black Americans can never move on from. For over 5 generations. Black Americans were not allowed to obtain or passed down wealth to their offspring. Followed by another 100 years of physical and economically terrorism. Whites received MILLIONS OF ACRES OF FREE LAND. While blacks got NOTHING.
Just for get about that???
So why didn’t they just forget about the native Americans or Jews and just move on??? Only when it comes to Black Americans do we hear such foolishness and we all know what it is. Racism!!! You hate Black Americans
I would say most of the world has learned from it, but many don't want to move on because they make a living at keeping the memory of it alive.
Easy for you to say if you never had any ancestors that were slaves.
@@mikhelBrown How do you know that they never had ancestry that had slaves? You do realize that through time there have been more slaves outside of the United States than in it, right? You do know that all races have been slaves, right?
Suppose your father committed a horrible crime, murder or the like.
Are there any people out there who would seriously argue that YOU should be punished for his actions?
I imagine not, because you’re not culpable for his crimes, because he is not you.
If you wouldn’t argue for punishing children for the crimes of their direct parents, how could you argue for reparations, where the connection is even more distant and tenuous?
One of those guys who's sounded like an elderly national geographic narrator his entire life
Some British guy opining about reparations in the US, is like a Black American guy opining about Blexit or the monarchy. What's it to you?
You're just some foreign dude, trying to make a buck out of American internal strife and confusion.
@@samnectar Who said it was an argument?
It's an analogy. Here's another analogy: debating some _British subject_ over American reparations is like debating some gay guy over who is more attractive, _1990's Nicole Kidman or 2020's Rosamund Pike?_
Sure, he can have an opinion, but so what?
But it wouldn't be transferring away from people that look like people who were involved in slavery (That would be difficult to do). It would be transferring a debt owed from a government that benefitted from the free labor of the enslaved people to their descendents. He's right that this is not simple but the arguments he is making just sound good because of the Downton Abbey accent. Descendents of Confederate veterans were still receiving pensions in the 90s (look it up). Slave owners received reparations, Italians, Japanese, etc have received reparations. This discussion has been kicked down the road 4 generations and at least should be discussed by policymakers
Where will the government get the money from? how much money will be spent/people hired to investigate the integrity of claims. Regarding confederate pensions. That has stopped for a reason.
@fraserpreston7049 The government won't even approve a committee to explore the options. They found money for Covid relief but they of course will not find money when they won't even explore or investigate options. I made a joke once that they should tie in African Americans to the Defense budget, problem solved. The older I get and the more that joke starts to make sense. The military asks for 5 billion and gets 8 billion(what do they do with the additional funds)🤔. I mean there is at least options to be discussed. I don't have the answers but someone does if they care to try
Black wealth in 1863 was one half of one percent of the total wealth in US. 150 years later it's 1.5%. The US ammassed a ton of its wealth on the backs of slaves and restitution was never paid.
These assholes speak out both sides of their mouths. When talking about their rights they say: "My ancestors settled this land, fought in the wars, this country is my birthright!" Then when talking about slavery: "Hey that was a long time ago and I had nothing to do with it". You've inherited the country, the good parts and the bad. It's time to move past the social integration progress of the civil rights movement: descendents of slaves deserve reparations or at least a comprehensive plan to get their wealth on par with the rest of the country.
You look comfortably middle class, why dont you step up to the plate?
I disagree with reparstions. I agree that A LOT investment needs to be done to fix issues in black community. Mostly education and infrastructure. It needs to be much better quality and accessable for every child. I also want to note that fathers absence in family is a massive issue and it contributes to black wealh problem as well. You need both parents to raise a succesfull child.
There's no such thing as a "comprehensive plan" to do anything. People are overdosing or shooting up a school. The lucky ones are just depressed. The economy is about to collapse as well.
Talk of reparations is tone deaf to the other 98% of problems we have.
It's also entirely impractical because extending the "plan" would just serve as the next hula hoop every politician would have to jump through to "prove" they're not a white supremacists.
Already am, thanks!
Then by all means, pay them out of your pocket or shut the hell up hypocrite.
oh please, we're NOT talking just about slavery but the next 100+ years AFTER the Civil War when Blacks were treated as second class citizens, legally, in both North and South. How about the 5000 victims of extra-legal lynchings, where elected authorities were, if not active participants, at least complicit. The families of 9/11 victims got an average of $2,000,000 --------how is that justified but reparations not? I do agree that the logistics of reparations are perhaps beyond making it practical but that doesn't mean there isn't a moral argument for it. Personally, my father grew up on a farm in Minnesota during the Depression, joined the army and retired a full Colonel. If he had been a Black sharecropper from Mississippi the most he could have aspired to was working in the base kitchen-----the history of my family would have been significantly altered.
He's chosen a deliberately slippery way of looking at it. Could we not conceive of it as the state compensating descendents of slaves for lost generational wealth? Still difficult but nowhere near as bad as his framing
That would assume one has to figure out meticulously who is a decendant of slaves and who is a decendant of slave owners, which is basically impossible to do. And its also not what is suggested. What is suggested is precisley what he says: people that look like the descendants of slave owners pay people who look like the descendants of slaves, when in reality any black man in todays america might very well have no connection to the slave trade in his history or might even have profited off of it.
@Brett M nope. Very intriguing how quickly you have pre-judged me though
@@fritz0r I mean, I'm not particularly engaged with which people say what, so you could be right, or maybe there are a bunch of formulations and some aren't as stupid as you might be assuming
@@fritz0r that’s funny because BLACK MEN whether descendants or not feel the effects of racism which stemmed from slavery. When black folks are denied jobs, loans, access to info by racist they are not meticulously picked out based on whether they ancestors were slaves or not. It is because they are BLACK. So let’s not change the rules entirely because of white folks discomfort and/or fear or of paying back for their ancestors atrocities.
Generational wealth? I am 100% European ancestry and did not receive any generational wealth. You are not entitled to anything. Everybody has ancestors who were slaves. Get over it. Go make your own money .
I don’t know how Douglass Murray gets away with sporting such a mediocre mind. Our entire financial system rests on the idea that past assets and liabilities get carried forward. This is why the UK, for example, only recently managed to repay the US and Canada for debts taken on during the Second World War. Likewise, on the other side of the balance sheet, there is money sitting in the banking system today, that can be directly traced back to unpaid slave labour from centuries ago, not to mention all manner of other horrific acts of exploitation.
Mr Murray has no problem with the Assets side of the Western, post-colonial balance sheet…but somehow he doesn’t quite know why the Liabilities column should exist…why? Because he’s a dum-dum.
Reparations has roots in the socialist’s belief in the redistribution of wealth. Who is going to determine who gets it? How much are you going to pay them? If this is coming from the tax payer, why are the people that were non slave holders or ancestors were foreign residents (me) expected to foot the bill? Many people feel that this is nothing but a shakedown.
Civil rights were just introduced 50 years
Lmaoooo is this satire?
He said how many generations would you allow Jewish people to cite the holocaust for hardship without acknowledging they literally received reparations in the form of the allied strong arming them land lmaoo
Nob
They watch the new season of Atlanta and got scared
@@jhawkins7515 They immediately gave them land which he said would be morally justified.
Fix the current problems
A European talking about reparations is cringe on all levels..
Anybody talking about reparations is cringe.
@@therealbigcock no, only when its the ancestors of slavers
@@motivatedt9926If u look far enough, slave trade exist all over the world in almost all cultures.
@@asafb1984 education is not valued in certain subsets of American culture
So the only one allowed to talk about reparations are the ones demanding not the ones who it is demanded from? What the fuck lol
A British man against reparations? I could have saved you the film footage.....
The truth of the matter is way over 99% of all people have been slaves, plebs or ... Only Blue blood Royalty families that exists up to today are not part of that heritage! What holds blacks back is not assimilating. From when I was a kid to today many more have assimilated and have moved up the food chain. Today I would say the black community not on the ladder are a smaller sub section of the black community!
Reparations would be paid by the government not by individual people. So this country paid reparations to the slave masters but not the slaves or the decendants of slaves.
@@samnectar our government gets money in many different ways. Taxation and fees paid by people and corporations international and domestic, borrowing or issuing bonds, seizure of assets, selling of goods and services or just printing it like they did to bail out Wall Street during the last couple of market crashes. Just to name a few ways
Reparations just create biases. Historically speaking we all go back to the beginning by virtue of being alive today. We’ve all suffered immensely in this context.
Dividing society into group identities, imagining hardships of said groups then creating benefits for a certain few groups is a foolish supremacy argument masked as a kindness because there’s unlimited ways we can be broken down and segregated but we could never truly understand them to such a level whereby we could fairly distribute money and privileges without simply creating bias and conflict as a result of said ‘kindness’.
😂 he snapped
America can do it. Give complete families that have relation to ancestors being slaves to not have to pay tax for 20 to 30 years. Goes for investments, property taxes, purchases, all income. After that time period, the entire family pays what the current taxes are.
Native Americans deserve money first, y’all down the line lmao 🤣
No one deserves anything. You are here. Go get what you want and need. No one owes you anything.
@@therealbigcock - Not about any one individual. It's about the country. The country would do so much better to be honest about her past wrongs and do what's needed to rectify the situation.
@@vinceferdinand3576 - Not everyone in America. How do you figure?
@@vinceferdinand3576 - It was racist and immoral to take all that was taken from these people. Their heritage. Then to not reimburse them in a way as to acknowledge how they have been greatly taken advantage of, while America greatly prospered off of their backs.
Doing this would be just one way of how America as a nation evolves. Courts exist for justice to be had. It is regularly recognized that payment in monetary means squashes many debates. After that happens, the debate never needs to be raised again.
This is a very very weak argument. There is obviously no accounting for who were the direct descendants of both the oppressed and the oppressors when looking at the American population, as It would be impractical to do so. So looking at it as a reparations tax is not really the way you are meant to observe it. It is simply a social tax. As a newly irish American citizen within the last 10 years, I am perfectly willing to accept my adopted nations past as a grave mistake and wrong doing and am willing to accept this past for the good and the bad wholesale. I am therefore willing to contribute to the welfare and disadvantaged to make the country a more level playing field. Douglas comes accross to me as a very selfish man. All nations have a past and reparations to pay. It's to you as a citizen to say if you agree with it. If not, go some place else.
Many groups have had reparations but now it can’t happen cause we are too far away from our ancestors. Coming from this guy ?!
Because person A punishing person B for something person C did to person D many generations ago is logical.
@@stevenclyde5400 why all of a sudden are coming with this logic, but wasn’t using this same logic before. we wasn’t saying this about the Halocaust, we didn’t say this towards the Japanese. …so why now??
@@stevenclyde5400 who is person A?! For because no one in the black community with any sense wants or is blaming “white folks” for slavery or is asking for them to pay directly for the atrocities of their ancestors. It lies on the government. They can find money to pay for everything in the world but one of the single most important, devastating and evil acts in world history. 🙄
@Brett M nothing is exactly the same. why is this one so hard to do ?
Many of these groups have been given reparations various times in history via land grants, education, etc. In fact the slave owners were paid / reimbursed by the federal government for yielding their "property". I've been watching this guy for a bit now and he's watered down version of Ben Shapiro in my opinion. I mean he talks about the holocaust and didnt the Allies find a home for the Jews post WW2 at the expense of the Arabs...isnt that a form of reparations?
No former slave is still alive, and most black people in America today live better lives than their counterparts in Africa, but sure, yes, reparations please, by all means...
Compare their lives to Africans? Why? Why not compare them to other Americans, it's what they are, and then you will see what you are already trying to hide.
Old money was inherited, money that was paid to former slave owner millions
That could be extremely hard to track down and justify.
Bring tariq nasheed to the pod to speak on reparations.
Why hes a clown
Douglas Murray unfortunately doesn't take a unique stance on this position. It's very common misconception for people who don't understand reparations to assume that it's just a transfer a wealth from descendants of one race to another. That is a huge misrepresentation of the case for reparations and an out dated one at that. His delivery is poised but then he somehow waffles to saying fatherlessness is an attribute of black underachievement which is a far-right stereotype & has nothing to do with reparations.
He then claims that reparations need a 'term limits'. That's not how reparations work especially when group A still benefits from the wrongdoings of group B. And group B still suffers the consequences of that wrongdoing. Lex please press guests especially if they have a propensity towards far-right beliefs and mis-information. Douglas should talk about whatever he wants but he should feel compelled to keep quiet about things he doesn't understand like race and finance obviously.
Thank you!!
Labeling a topic "far right" (or left for that matter) is nothing more than an attempt to nullify the position from one's personal political viewpoint.
He's looking at it that way and it sounds right, but it (like AA) isn't about wealth transfer now. It's about breaking the cycle of poverty ut gets back to stupid unintelligent arguments when we go back to the slavery argument. That's what 40 acres and a mule was about and it didn't happen. It was designed to give slaves something to stop the servitudinous imperative. So if Reparations isn't practical, how do we stop the cycle of poverty? Education is the obvious answer. How about take that 10 billion and instead pay teachers 80K to work in impoverished neighborhoods? And don't say "they already make that much because (insert unionized or expensive city here) or they work 9 mo of the year. Fine. Increase THEIR pay too. It's obviously not enough. People claim government workers can't be good because we shouldn't pay them enough... then pay them enough....
Get educated.
Plain and simple.
You roids just want a free handout.
Where to begin?
"a moral question long after the fact"? " How long is long enough and for who? Him?Us? A windrush victim? The famlies and the dead of the Indian famine? The decimated peoples of the first nations? The Irish destroyed over the last millenium? Any other country irreversibly trampled under our flaming hooves? If it’s of so little import why not divest the Drax family of every penny they’ve ever earned from slavery? It’s been too long after all. What use do they have for a bygone accumulated fortune generated in human trafficking since 1642? It has no bearing today. It probably wasn’t even in today’s legal tender. It’s too long after the fact. Let’s just pull it all back, take a deep breath and throw a warm arm around it in a multi-ethnic group hug. All gone.
"..entirely self destructive excercise?" Who would be destroyed? Him? What HE values? What is worthy of being pulled down in our iniquitous world?
"much of the left"..why does it have to be uniquely the left? Why would he make that destinction? Why should it be a partisan issue?
Looks? Holocaust equivalence? I have no words.
When a obfusticating and concept-juggling conservatIive (I use the lower-case "C" advisedly but I could equally use a lower-case "F" in anticipation) starts talking about blaming the the poor for their own "bad decisiones" it's time to shut them down Lex. He’s trying to compartmentalise issues to a local scale when they are global and systemic in nature. You have to call out lazy arguments. What’s the point if you if it is not this? If your aim is to just up your YT traffic, it's beneath you.
I get that he's seductive, speaks well and has the aplomb to carry it off gushing a lot of very well established tropes in a posh Brit accent, but how wilfully shallow and silly can he stoop to being? He really is a silly man. End of.
Without a sense of history we are nothing and those we hurt but which we don’t even include are even less that that.
Man has a violent history, even the Native American's were known for brutality against each other. If we're going back in time to pay reparations to anybody that was wronged, well, that's going to be a long ugly story.
It's funny how mainstream schools of psychotherapy like Cognitive Behavior Therapy say that we can improve our mental health by living in the moment, letting go of the past and not obsessing over problems we can't do anything about - except when it comes to racial grievances.
I don’t understand white people like him. MLK and Malcolm X would have been alive and powerful speakers/influencers/revolutionaries well into my lifetime if not for slavery. My great grandmother was a slave part of her life. The civil rights movement was just in the 60s. So even if you wanted to say somehow everything was perfect going into the 70s. That means racism was still a factor of at least my fathers lifetime. A curse from 4 centuries prior. And fine if not that then I think what the Dem’s and Clinton’s did during the 90s in the crime era is noted for how it affected blacks. Or the Reagan Era and the Crack epidemic which was pushed and facilitated by the Gov’t for the destruction of black communities. Like some of you whites are blind for blindness sake. But I def have white friends who know this kind of info and world exists in this matter better then I do. Lex Fridman I damn suspect is one of those kinds of people himself
Black underachievement and Asian overachievement are not 'multifactoral,' it's due to the 20 point average eye queue difference.
😂😂 what about him crow 🤦🏽♂️ throw slavery out the door we talking 60 years ago
What bout the fact that much of our countries infrastructure built on backs of slaves and we all
Benefiting in some way today….🤔🤷🏻♂️
My point exactly. These shock jocks think just because they're arrogant they're right.
That is completely false
@@therealbigcock do some research before you start talking about something you know nothing about
Although the British and the Western world are often credited with abolishing slavery, it was actually the African king Sundiata Keita who first proclaimed the abolition of slavery in the 11th century. Keita's proclamation, known as the Manden Charter, prohibited the sale of slaves and was in effect long before the first European explorers arrived in Africa. One question that remains is why Europeans continued to take slaves even after Keita's proclamation.
The holocaust?
What about it. Germany did reparations.
The labor of black slaves built Haiti as well. Why don't we hear calls for reparations to Haitians?
Because Haiti was a French colonie not a English/US colonie so their political claim goes to France.
Funny thing is that haiti went in war against france , they won against france but then had to pay france for them freedom billions of franc/euro... france also loccked any trades for a long time. They still paying it to this day. France also denied any reparation for they malicious action befor and after slavery and wont talk about it in the futur ethier.
The situation of what happened to American blacks did not take place in a vacuum. To imply there was only slavery is a lie.
At least invest the reparations extortion money in something like a sovereign wealth fund, and then pay the descendants of slaves an income from the returns on the investment. That way the money will continue to produce wealth instead of going to waste on a demographic known for poor financial habits.
Let’s have two white males discuss reparations men I wonder how this conversation will go 😂 obviously anyone white is gonna typically say there’s no need for reparations
That's like saying anyone black will say it's a good idea. It would basically be winning the lotto for every black person.
Third
First
I must be first?
no i was first