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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2024
- ( www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! Welcome back to TFL Car Chat! In this episode, Nathan and Roman talk about the cars with the most and least depreciation according to iSeeCars!
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Video starts at 24:12
Thank you. This should be top comment.
👍
Thank you😀
If you think that the transition from one propulsion system in the same vehicle to a different one is even in the same realm as the transition from Horse to Car, you've completely failed to think your premise through in the slightest.
Agree
At this point an electric car is a step towards a horse and buggy, not away from it.
Not really.
Hydrogen FUEL CELL is the answer. Much better than EV, less pollution, less demand on the grid. Keep politics out of it.
I have a family of 5, barely make 50k a year, after uncle Sam takes his cut, bills, i dont understand how anyone can buy anything.......
Ditto
Future predictors aren't always right. Recall all the folks right after WWII when they said most families would have an airplane in their garage. EV has a long way to go to straighten out their issues and provide a decent infrastructure.
We are just one slip-up in the straight of Tiawan away from not having materials for batteries.
PS: Roman thinks everyone lives 'in cities' 🙄
Let the market and not mandates dictate EV adoption.
Roman electric is convenient if you have a house you and charge at. What about people in NYC in apartments.
I think Tommy needs to take over TFL Studios while Roman moves out to the ranch…
Tommy needs to stop flopping his hands about while he talks, very annoying.
To the glue factory!!!!
Back in the day did the government make horses against the law?
@TFLtalk: I am with Nathan, the voice of reason and logic.
We need the Nathan & Tommy team back!
@@tomcat-skyumah No.
Roman pushes for EV’s but drives the TFL Tacoma daily…
In 20 years semis will still be diesel and the corolla and camry will still be selling
@@TheAnnoyingBossThe Camry and Corolla will be Crossovers though. Sedans will be history.
Yeah and the last ev spy video Roman shot he was is a mustang lol
HYdrogen may be more applicable to heavy duty trucks, semi's etc.
No because they use to much fuel even on hydrogen.
Damm Nathan, I feel 4 you brother! Roman is being a dick cutting you off like that! Send his ass out to The Ranch, and get anybody else.
Its would be nicer if you guys put the cars images of what you guys talk about 😊on the TV in the background
People have been asking for that a while. Makes too much sense to actually do it I guess.
I mentioned this awhile back. Because this is a visual media. People want it to make sense. Instead assuming a model.
They do but only a second.
Sorry for my previews complaints about this fee content. Solutions. How about a rating on the videos. Rated R for Roman watch at your own risk.
It impacts which videos I watch.
I fail to see how having to charge a vehicle is more convenient than stopping at a gas station for 2 minutes to fill up.
Yes SIR you can’t see it. But I’ve been at a lot of gas stations my entire adult life and had sketchy moments sooooo many times. It also never takes 2 minutes, hyperbole for effect just devalues you position
I’d say 2 minutes is pretty reasonable if no one is in line and the pump is flowing well. What’s the worst case? 5 minutes? Charging electric cars in reasonable amounts of time is still a joke. There are use cases for them but they don’t work across the board. At least not yet.
I think this would be charging at home. (City driving) so 0 gas station. But I agree for roadtrips there is currently nothing more convenient than a ICE
You are not accounting for folks that can charge at home.
It’s convenient because most people charge 90 percent of the time at home during the night while they sleep. Plus it’s much cheaper than filling up your vehicle with gasoline
I love thinking about this topic. I find the “cars lose 15-30% when you drive off the lot” to be a gross understatement.. especially if you remove luxury cars from the equations
Nobody has the time for charging a vehicle. And tradesmen need to carry tools and tow..witch limit range. And could weather also lowers range
If you could only charge them when the grid is not being used and when people are sleeping? Wait🤦♂️
😅uh what?
@@TFLtalk CA govt enters the chat and tells you it may not be OK to charge when it makes the most sense.
@@TFLtalkyour kidding? I guess you have never worked a real job before. We see what side your on.
The issue isn't whether EVs are better. The issue is that they are government mandated. Take the most popular thing you can think of (thus people like it and aren't normally inclined to oppose it) and then mandate it, a big segment of society will instantly oppose it. Why? One, because they like to oppose authority or 2) they are skeptical that the government does anything right so therefore the previously good thing won't be good anymore. Bottom line, Americans don't like to be forced to do things no matter how good the things may be.
"You can either understand history or you can trust the government. You can not do both. "
There's a reason this is an old saying.
“But we’re the government and know what’s best for you!”
Good video! Spin off that breakdown and build a list of best buys of heavily depreciated newer vehicles.
I would LOVE a Buzz just will not be able to afford it here in Canada
You guys are funny as always. Nathan is the best…JS. 🤘👍🥊😎
Cybertruck hybrid will tesla even consider it. I told them if they dont pute propane and propane accessories in the front hank hill style straight up grill bottles to increase its range if thats not realistic they need to put a bigger battery in the frunk. Someone told me they putnit in the bed I was like shoot ford doesnt have a battery in the bed to drive farther. Why in tbe bed? It has too much space it has a ultra durable top cover on the bed that locks it has a frunk that locks an interior that locks with class the average guy cant bust through. All this extra space and low range. Imagine if they gutted a forklift powertrain type of system and had it in the frunk. Is that a lot of energy? A forklift gets eork done with one propane tank strapped to the back i would think once a cyber truck is up and moving at 80mph it struggles to go 300 miles a ford goes like over 500 idk. To me its such a shit situation. You have to build a whole hydrogen infrustructure and its more expensive type hardware. Theres propane tanks all over already. Idk man it could he a bad idea i think theyre going to end up putting batteries in the frunk and the bed of the cyber truck it will still lose to a ford 2.7L with the big gas tank. And the v8. And a corolla civic camry accord... so im just trying to think of something man. The truck costs so much even when we arent pulling out all the stops trying to get it to go farther
Nathan is great!
It’s hard to compare the boom in motor vehicles to a potential modern boom in EVs. Modern Battery technology has been in development for decades. Thermodynamics are undefeated. Heat and cold are devastating to modern batteries. Couple that with no realistic way to achieve the power demands of these vehicles. I’m not sure a see a way a way toward EV dominance in the US.
This. The horse buggy analogy was cute, until you realize once you leave fairytale land, it's not that simple.
Great show guys
My vote is for the GX460 (I’m biased 😝)
Very interesting. Thanks for keeping us informed about the future of vehicles. Roman, great comparison (to the horse and buggy)!
List starts 24min in
I sense a new TFL spin off.. TFL car movie reviews
Roman is the only person that can make me desperately want a hydrogen-powered phone
24 minutes in before we’re on topic…
Roman needs to start his own podcast - Roman's Thoughts
And yet it’s somehow the best content on the video 😂😂😂🐐🐐🐐
@@TheCree2010 yep and we'd probably all enjoy Roman's Thoughts podcast as well
Trying to keep Roman on topic in any video is like hearding boomers, sorry cats.
Roman would argue that a rock is soft and when you hit him in the head with a rock he would claim that's the exception to the rule
The basics of electric vehicles vs gas is the elimination of a clutch and/or transmission. An 'internal combustion ENGINE' continues to run while the vehicle is sitting still. Mandating a complicated clutch system. An 'electric MOTOR' can just stop running. Create a ton of torque at low end. Rev to incredible RPM's without gears. In fact, it can assist braking and slightly recover charge. Ten years the USA will be 67% EV's.
Hydrogen seems to me to be the best fit for hybrid over the road semi trucks. Saves on weight, provides range, and semis habe the extra space 4 the massive fuel tanks. Infrastructure won't need to be as big. If your Hydrogen idea survives it will be in this application.
Nathan, you are wrong! Technology changes quickly. Look at the changes in the automobile industry in the last 20 years. Look at the changes in EVs in the last 20 years. Roman, you're spot on!
Your in denial Sorry you will see. 80% of vehicles in 20 years will be gas. Get over it
37:44 It makes sense that people are willing to pay for the next generation but it also makes sense that people are willing to pay more for the second year of the new generation than the first because of the idea that the manufacturer has worked out any kinks. I wonder, however, if you look at the CPO/used markets or the last new land cruisers on the market if people are overpaying to avoid the new, crappier ones. Especially pay attention to next year's 4runner numbers.
The electrical grid will never support complete ev usage. It can barely support 10 to 15% now
This factor is the most over looked. No North American government has maintained energy out put. Hardly any meaningfully energy projects have been planned. It takes a years to build an impactful plant.
Yes the grid basically needs completely rebuilding to provide enough electricity + a dozen new nuclear plants. Will never happen.
There weren't any gas stations either back when autos first came out. The oil companies better prepare for the change. It's inevitable.
@@rickpriest1961 But the private sector responded by increasing supply by exploration and additional refining. This is not happening for electricity production and the grid. Considering 2035 deadline is 11 years away.
I want the maverick so badly.. I really hoped I could pick one up used after a few years and get one in the teens.. hasn’t been the case
I have had two Teslas and loved them….but went back to a diesel truck. However, I am thinking of upgrading my truck to a dually for towing and then buying a new Tesla Model 3 performance for a convenient, fun daily driver. I think in 20 years, we will be 75% electric for passenger vehicles. Trucks are staying gas/diesel for many more years.
Love the live show's.
I love yah Roman but Nathan is right IMO.
Why would they build more than demand during tight money policy? Doesn't need a MBA to figure that out.
Sorry Roman. Electric cars are far from free. And when everyone has one, electricity delivery cost will go up. Electric car technology still needs to improve. Until you can fully charge in a comparable time to gasoline and can travel a comparable distance as gasoline. In hot or cold conditions. Tow and haul comparably. People will not switch until it is in their favor to do so. And this statement is coming from a guy who drives a hybrid car and wants a hybrid truck and hopes to eventually have a full electric eventually.
The BMW i3 reigns supreme in San Francisco. So does the Land Rover LR4. Go figure.
Which is dumb.
Roman is wrong as usual lol. Most people do not want electric. As evidenced by total sales reports, etc, the people who wanted electric, already have it. 👌😉 Electric is absolutely not "more convenient" in a country that is 2-4k miles side to side. 😂😂
Nissan has the e power hybrid over several models
You two are funny. I will watch the movie. Like with every form of new technology. At first things move slowly. Then they ramp up quickly. Twenty years is more then enough time for the change over, if not sooner.
I think the best compromise for most families will be to have an EV & and ICE vehicle - use the vehicle that is best suited for the driving mission.
Went a filled up my ICE vehicle this morning. Took me 8 minutes and I was back on the road. First time in over a week. 🤷♂️. More inconvenient and cheaper than running power from my breaker panel to a plug for a EV. Not including the extra cost of an EV.
You guys have Every right to say whatever you please.
We have Every right to tell you how ridiculous you sound saying it.
Funny, you'd think you would appreciate the feedback.
Cool
He is arguing with Nathan over the Alfa Romeo after he just argued paying $100,000 for a soft headrest
0:48 don't rocks have a pretty steady value? Lol
I agree with Nathan. It won't be electric alone. Hydrogen.
Hydrogen is a non-starter when it uses 3x the amount of electricity to make electrolytic hydrogen than a pure EV alone. Not until we have "purple" hydrogen made from nuclear power will hydrogen make sense. If you're waiting for hydrogen to power our vehicles, you might as well just wait for fusion power that is "just around the corner".
I think Tommy have better Vision of Nissan I hope Nissan take Tommy in the team abut the better features for Nissan . Good job guys
The problem I see with moving towards all electric cars is access to charging. Not part of the discussion that you are talking about. I am taking about the 17% of Americans that live in either apartments or condominiums. They do not have the ability to charge at home and that would have to be rectified. Costs are coming down for EV's and so that is becoming less of an issue. For those in apartments and condos, the best they can shoot for is hybrids.
Problem with electric is they are convenient when you have a home you can charge at. The housing market isn’t getting better
Pretty clear the market is saying people don’t want EVs!!!
I hope they read these comments.. the comparison of the EV transition to the automotive/horse&buggy transition has to be one of the most idiotic ideas I've ever heard. they are incomparable. EVs should be looked at as complementary to ICE and not a complete replacement.
ICE will never die.....
I own 4 trucks 1car i live in LA
Why does England have so many car companies, considering its size?
The GTR is a vehicle that should never stop being built.
Hydrogen is the only alternative that makes sense.
On the topic of electric cars replacing gas, Horse drawn carriages were not legislated away. People chose a different way. The free market was allowed to work.
That’s not entirely the case here.
People don't buy trucks to haul/tow anymore. They buy them so they have a truck. Sad, but it's true.
I cannot imagine buying a new truck.
I would buy an electric AWD Maverick with 160 miles of range.
Wow. That's 15 minutes of my life I cannot get back.
Is it really a loss of 15 minutes. Or just a reflection of your inability to have time management and just skip ahead.
☝️This guy has no friends.
Seriously hard to watch.
@@Off-Road10 Skip ahead to where? You have to watch the entire video to learn what's relevant or not. Why do we even have to skip at all? Just stick to the subject.
I came for the comments about cars because the auto industry is quite nightmarish
Roman wrong
Roman, buy a G Class used... But about 10 years old. $50-80k.
He's got a new Porsche Carrera 4 Cabriolet on order.
That's not a G Class, which he stated was his dream truck. @@jimjones-pz1tt
Roman is wrong on the electric! The grid is not designed for 100% electric and there is no plan to have it ready by 2035. Electric and wind don’t provide base load power.
Roman you are wrong. You also have done another great job of derailing another talk segment with your "it's my way or the highway" attitude. Please don't do anymore talk segments. Leave it to Tommy, Nathan, or Andre. No more roman.
Totally agree
That was a terrible parallel Roman. The car had tremendous superiority potential over the horse. The electric car is from the same tech era as ICE engines. If they start using cold fusion to power cars, I’d agree with you. But EV tech is terrible.
I’d take that bet all day
Mercedes eqe and eqs do have high depreciation
Winton eventually became absorbed by GM and became Detroit Diesel
I’ve suggested it before and have seen others suggest this also. Please add timelines or markers whatever they are called to your videos. Many smaller channels I view for car info do this. It’s helpful to weed through over content. Otherwise I find myself clicking off.
I've heard that there's an AI that will do this! Perhaps something they should investigate. I think they probably just don't want to invest the time into manually marking up a video that they're really not making any money from, so the AI solution would be pretty good.
I would have watched a bunch of this video if I could have done as much. I watch many of their videos and would watch more if I had the time.
They do this on their more edited videos-'just used it on the mid-sized-truck mileage video-so they certainly know how.
Or jsut skip ahead. Y’all complain about things that you can just fix without speaking on it…
@@LafemmebearMusic This video should get at least 20k views. If only 2k of those want to skip forward, that's one editor helping 2k viewers. That's pretty nice if content creator can do something once instead of making 2k viewers doing it 2k times.
It’s a comparison video. Why do not want to learn what’s going on, and different features of various makes? Is everybody’s confirmation bias so strong,they just want to watch the one they like? Do you wish Tom Hanks would have skipped ahead to the end result instead of wasting all that time in Saving Private Ryan?
Toyota resale value absolutely dominant like usual. Great value, insane reliability, easy to work on, Toyota for life.
I agree that electric cars will be more relevant in 10-20 years however I agree with Nathan. Dont dismiss hydrogen so easily. It honestly makes more sense than electric in some ways. The issue was that Elon Musk shit talked hydrogen so much to sell Tesla’s so much that all his followers would never consider anything else.
The issue is not only gas vs electric vs hydrogen. Many 18-40 year olds can’t afford to buy their own home. When you say it’s easy to charge at home, it’s a privileged thing to say. You own a home so there’s no doubt in your mind. Many apartment complexes are not going to shed out money to upgrade and update their electricity to have charging stations for tenants. Meanwhile, hydrogen takes 10-20 mins to fill up. Yes, there’s not the stations currently but like you said, 10 years ago there were almost no electric stations any where.
Hybrids are really going to be the winner until something truly sticks out.
It took more than 20 years for the car to replace the horse.are there will still be gas cars in 20 years just like there are still horses.I think Tesla isn't going to be the biggest car company but they might be the biggest EV charging company.
Ok yea but how many recalls do we have on the Maverick
I guess Roman believes mining coal is bad but mining nickel, lithium, copper, cobalt is all good. Wish people would wake up and realize we are being gaslit.
finally a list that EVs dominate!
Per Nathan:
"I am the very model of a modern Major-General
I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights..." - That aside I agree w/both the 1st 30 mins. Roman is right as far as personal vehicles, Nathan is correct as far as Commercial vehicles w/Hydrogen & other fuels. Meaning semitrucks, not just regional, talking otr and Long Heavy hauls i.e. Canadian/Alaska trips. Plus Dalton Hwy alone FAI to Prudhoe Bay those rigs & trips need sustained minimum 400 gallon tanks & ability to tow massive weight just from the trucks themselves not to mention the freight. - plus the US isn't THE ONLY Country on earth. Japan is spending nearing a trillion on their infrastructure bc it is a island nation. Facts. & they're not the only country doing so. Aviation will be using other forms of non CO2 producing fuels, as will Boom. Which is in Centennial & a major contender for taking Commercial back to Supersonic. Ask me how I know 😘😂👍. Both are right. Love seeing you 2. & the passion u both bring. & yes, one sees plenty of Trucks in LA don't kid yourself. Especially Inland empire
I agree. But I'd say it this way: In 20 years, IC cars will be relegated to hobby status.
Roman is doing great job and very knowledgeable
But
His employee Nathan rude and nonprofessional again
Nathan has the face perfect for Radio!
Lol
Roman just criticized one of the richest men that ever lived over his politics and his thinking while pouting about not being able to afford a G wagon while Nathan rummages in the drawer for Romans pacifier
Ugh, Roman…. My man. You are so FOS! Battery technology, charging infrastructure, and cost of manufacturing have so far to go for electric vehicles to compete with internal combustion and PHEV. It’s not even close right now. Battery technology improvements are slow, it’ll be at least 2 decades. Hell some vehicles like the new Land Cruiser are still using NIMH from the 90’s because todays battery technology has a lot of drawbacks. People won’t leave behind internal combustion until there are Zero 0 Nada drawbacks to electric only.
Youve clearly never owned one. They are pretty much better in every way, TRUCKS I might agree with, but for the average person who needs a car or small SUV, electric wins hands down. And yes, I have both - I have 2023 Capstone Tundra (Hybrid) and a Tesla Model Y. The Tesla is so much easier unless you need to haul something.
@@jammazon I live in an apartment. Can’t charge it at home or afford one and the infrastructure does in fact suck compared to gas stations.
@@foellerd It does. But, most apartment complexes now will let you rent a space and put in a level2 charger. I think this will become more common. I have a family member who lives in an apartment in Dallas and does this. A little more rent for the space or garage, but much cheaper in terms of running costs.
Roman SAID twenty years. That’s 2 decades.
@@garysarratt1 I said at least which means probably more. And I lived in like 4 or 5 different appartments now and none of them would have let me install a charger unless maybe I paid for it myself which is another couple thousand dollars.
$77,000 a killer deal? LOL!
Love how Roman and Nathan still get along after 16 years. They always love sitting and talking about cars together. They bushed at times, but that’s why they’re so good. Feel like they never go through their opinions before so if they argue it’s all very organic. Love the conversations Roman and Nathan, keep it up!!!
Thanks for the kind comment!
I think this is absolutely junk data. It's hindcasting at the worst imaginable time. The covid/supply chain disruption will massively impact the data, and the proliferation of both off-road focused models and EVs will impact the data as well. We basically need a couple more years to get accurate analysis of depreciation of new models.
@Roman you are so right! Hydrogen is a red herring. I also own an F350 crew cab long bed and a Ford Lightning. For daily use, 100% the Lightning is our go-to rig. 50K miles in one year. I will always have an EV in garage after owning the Lightning.
Electricity is not free. Charging stations are just as sketchy as gas stations. With a longer wait. Come on. Pretty weak arguments.
One of the main problem with EV's is that they wear out tires fast , and they're expensive to replace , not to mention the strain on the power grid .
I like the electric car ideal. But the difference between the horse and car to now electric vs gas is, when combustion engines were new oil wasn’t hard to find. Everything that an electric car needs to be made isn’t everywhere. But more importantly electricity isn’t an energy it has to be created. And until they can create it more efficiently through different methods Electric cars will be held back due to that and our lack of infrastructure. Oh and our grid needs a major overhaul. But where does the electricity come from that’s the problem I see for 20 years estimate.
Well stated!!
Every building in the country has electricity. The grid overall will grow and accommodate as adoption increases, but unlike gas in 1900 the infrastructure is already there.
It's a side issue that will be solved by addressing the real problem. The grid has needed an overhaul long before EVs entered the picture. A blizzard hitting Texas and freezing their natural gas power plants in 2021 was a mass casualty event, but it was all a repeat from the 2011 blizzard. Then less than 2 years later heat waves cause ERCOT to remotely raise the temperatures of hospitals, and private homes leading to more fatalities. Forget EVs, the source of the problem and where action needs to be taken is clear.
Our power companies and politicians have failed to overhaul the grid for decades now because neither wants to commit the budget and the power companies have so much power they can just ignore the government. Most of our grid is from the 60's to 70's, and our transmission lines largely needed replacement 20-30 years ago. We keep talking about updating the grid but no one seems willing to take action. That's not an EV problem, that's a politician problem and voters should respond accordingly.
I think you meant something like "electricity isn't fuel"? And does anyone who talks about the grave state of our grid actually work in the industry? Do they realize utilities do respond to market forces?
@@Cttechexpress It's had over 100 years to grow and accommodate electric cars, yet is still won't takeoff. Access to electricity isn't the issue, delivering the electricity rapidly and storing it safely and economically is the issue.
One gallon of gasoline contains over 33kWh of energy. You can deliver dozens of those gallons in a just few minutes to a gas tank through a pump and a narrow hose line. Simply, the equivalent electrical technology doesn't exist. The technology isn't even on the horizon, just promises and wishes for such tech.
With the tech we have now, it doesn't matter how many chargers you build. It will never be as practical a gallon of gas or diesel and tank.
please add chapter markers so we get more choices than to wait through a tangent or quit the video - thank you
Or hear me out. You could just skip ahead. Just a thought.
@@Off-Road10 ...which is a lot easier if you have chapter markers. Just a thought.
The electric Explorer is available in the UK
True, but it's smaller than the ICE models.
And they became irrelevant because you couldn't go very far. Now it's the same issue with battery life. Batteries are exponentially worse for the environment to produce and expose of as well. But, you won't have to fill up. 🤦🏻♂️
Get over it Roman ev is not the future. Going from horse to cars is way different than going from gas to electric.
Here's the thing though, the move from horse to car was driven by what? Government mandates and restrictions? No by the free market. It was a natural progression of one thing doing something better than another snd people using their purchasing power to reflect that. What we have today is a forced move fueled by regulations and political agenda.....just slightly different.