I LOVE my wolf Grundman bocal and it's high note response is incredible (I can tongue high E's and even G's with it). Because it's forged, and extra thick, it really is just the most different sounding bocal I've ever played and has amazing projection. I will say, that although the intonation is really flexible, it does take more work to play in tune than my heckel. And yes, the bocal does collect a bit less water than standard bend bocals!
I should have said I don't think it's really the bend that hurts the intonation, but rather the extremely thick walls responding to heat more (mine is twice as thick as a heckell CC).
How sophisticated a player do you need to be to be aware of differences in bocals? Though I went to Forrests 30 years ago (eek!) to pick out a Heckel CC2 bocal at the recommendation of my teacher, I really didn't sense too much difference as I tried them. When I sent the bassoon back to Fox this summer, I just asked them to pick out a well matched #3 length local for me, because I wasn't sure I would be all that aware of differences once again. They chose a *CVC* R2, which surprised me a little bit, but I do like it and it seems to work well. It would seem that players, such as yourself, who are aware of tone colors, and reed nuances and such would benefit from trying a bunch of bocals, but what about the rest of us?
Hi Paul, Great to hear from you. Glad your bassoon is back AND with a new bocal! I think one of the best ways to develop skills is to try and build experiences. It sounds like you have had some great experiences with bocals but when you find one that is BAD (or doesn't match your set up at all)... you will know and it might help you define what you do like. Try as many bocals as you can and feel for how you need to use your air for dynamics, projection, articulation, how even the scale is, and if there is greater flexibility. Use your yoga skills on bassoon (breath and feeling flexibility). Keep me posted on your thoughts.
Hi Eryn! Im excited to say im in the market for a new bocal i play a fox 220 im in the market for a standard or wolf grundman (preferably standard) im not too interested in the materials but the better choice that fits in my price range id definitely appreciate im looking for a length equivalent to a fox 2 or so im curious as to some models i should consider looking at and some places i can look to try them out my price range is around 1200$ give or take thank you so much!
Any recommendations on a Heckel bocal with a Renard 240? I've played for years on the same stock bocal. Easier response would be key, but any improvements in tone would be great as well. I do find the response struggles with high notes unless I work my reed a lot, but I get the feeling that a different bocal could really improve this. Anyone have an idea on which bocals would be good to start with?
One time long ago, when I was still a little lad and was still playing bassoon ( so sad...), my teacher put her heckel bocal on my old Kohler school issued bassoon and the sound took a complete 180. Then she was like, "if you can't get a Heckel basson, at least try to get a Heckel bocal." Would you say this change was more about the shape of the bocal perhaps being different or the craftsmanship? I guess the root of my question is how craftsmanship might affect the tone a bocal is able to produce? Thanks!
Its a mixture of all of these variables. The bore of the bocal will make an impact on resistance, and scale, The type of metal and plating will effect the tone. A harder metal with generate a more penetrating and vibrant sound, The thickness of the metal will also play an effect on this as well. To summarize, theres no real single contributor to why a different bocal will make the impact it can on a specific instrument.
What a fantastic reply! Thanks, Chad. Great info. I think that Brand Names can carry a bit of prestige and a known level of craftsmanship. But I have played bocals by the top companies that did not match my instrument and then played amazing bocals (with the same numbers and made by the same company) that did matched my instrument. They are all unique. It sounds like this scenario was a match! Too bad there wasn't an option to buy!
I just started to play bassoon and my reed keeps falls off my Bocal sometimes. I don't know if it is the reed or Bocal, but I can still play. Btw, I love watching your videos, they help me learn about the bassoon! (:
I'm so happy you're enjoying the videos. Happy to Help! It may be that the bocal and reed size do not match up. You can buy a reamer to make the inside of the reed wider. It might also be that you are using too much tension in your embouchure. Try placing your top lip on the reed and then playing while you move the bottom lip off so that the air leaks. This can help remove a bit of the tension in the jaw and help your reed stay on the bocal. Let me now how it all work out! Cheers- E
You're Right. If you do reem the reeds to fit better on the bocal be sure to do it when the reeds are still dry! It's better for the reemer and creates a more seamless tube on the inside of the reed. :)
I used to do it too as a beginner it’s easy to be scared to push a little on the reed and you tend to chomp down on the reed and pull it off. Loosening up will help you a lot
Yes, I have dabbled in Jazz bassoon. I started by learning the chord progressions and then how to improv over them. I'm not a rockstar at it but it is fun. :)
I usually keep my reed style pretty consistent. I like to play with one variable at a time so that I get a scientific result. I know exactly what caused the changes. But you could definitely alter the full set up with different reeds and bocals. This is the fun that goes with playing bassoon- so many options!
I know this is an intermediate question, but does every bassoonist have trouble going from third octave A to G? I've only been playing for about 3 years. Recently have been going into the third octave.
Hi there, For the third octave you need a faster air speed. A good way to check your air speed is with balloons. And you could even try a bit stronger cane. Very soft cane will make the higher notes on bassoon more challenging. Happy Bassoon-ing!
Thank you so much for the interesting videos! I will start playing the bassoon in September (and I’m so hyped up about it that I started watching all the videos I could find). Do you have any recommendations for beginner bassoon methods/books?
Happy to help! I'm excited for your bassoon adventures. If playing all alone I like the First Division Band Books because the tunes all sound familiar. But use the fingering form my Beginning Bassoon Fingerings Video. The fingering charts are not my favorite in the books.
thanks! I'll try to order that method. I will be getting lessons from an oboe teacher, so luckely I'm not completely on my own :D (we're a bit short on bassoon teachers closeby)
I don't own all of these bocals, I took photos at IDRS. But I do work three jobs and all of them are bassoon related- this is my line of work. So all Haul Videos are paid for with work monies.
I LOVE my wolf Grundman bocal and it's high note response is incredible (I can tongue high E's and even G's with it). Because it's forged, and extra thick, it really is just the most different sounding bocal I've ever played and has amazing projection. I will say, that although the intonation is really flexible, it does take more work to play in tune than my heckel. And yes, the bocal does collect a bit less water than standard bend bocals!
It sounds like a great match! And it has a great range. Interesting about the intonation- I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for sharing.
I should have said I don't think it's really the bend that hurts the intonation, but rather the extremely thick walls responding to heat more (mine is twice as thick as a heckell CC).
Good to know. And I can see how the wall thickness would do that!
that's it I'm subscribing
Woohoo! Welcome to our bassoon community. :)
How sophisticated a player do you need to be to be aware of differences in bocals? Though I went to Forrests 30 years ago (eek!) to pick out a Heckel CC2 bocal at the recommendation of my teacher, I really didn't sense too much difference as I tried them. When I sent the bassoon back to Fox this summer, I just asked them to pick out a well matched #3 length local for me, because I wasn't sure I would be all that aware of differences once again. They chose a *CVC* R2, which surprised me a little bit, but I do like it and it seems to work well. It would seem that players, such as yourself, who are aware of tone colors, and reed nuances and such would benefit from trying a bunch of bocals, but what about the rest of us?
Hi Paul, Great to hear from you. Glad your bassoon is back AND with a new bocal! I think one of the best ways to develop skills is to try and build experiences. It sounds like you have had some great experiences with bocals but when you find one that is BAD (or doesn't match your set up at all)... you will know and it might help you define what you do like. Try as many bocals as you can and feel for how you need to use your air for dynamics, projection, articulation, how even the scale is, and if there is greater flexibility. Use your yoga skills on bassoon (breath and feeling flexibility). Keep me posted on your thoughts.
Hi Eryn! Im excited to say im in the market for a new bocal i play a fox 220 im in the market for a standard or wolf grundman (preferably standard) im not too interested in the materials but the better choice that fits in my price range id definitely appreciate im looking for a length equivalent to a fox 2 or so im curious as to some models i should consider looking at and some places i can look to try them out my price range is around 1200$ give or take thank you so much!
Any recommendations on a Heckel bocal with a Renard 240? I've played for years on the same stock bocal. Easier response would be key, but any improvements in tone would be great as well. I do find the response struggles with high notes unless I work my reed a lot, but I get the feeling that a different bocal could really improve this. Anyone have an idea on which bocals would be good to start with?
I am going to play bassoon and this is very helpful thank you
One time long ago, when I was still a little lad and was still playing bassoon ( so sad...), my teacher put her heckel bocal on my old Kohler school issued bassoon and the sound took a complete 180. Then she was like, "if you can't get a Heckel basson, at least try to get a Heckel bocal."
Would you say this change was more about the shape of the bocal perhaps being different or the craftsmanship? I guess the root of my question is how craftsmanship might affect the tone a bocal is able to produce?
Thanks!
Its a mixture of all of these variables. The bore of the bocal will make an impact on resistance, and scale, The type of metal and plating will effect the tone. A harder metal with generate a more penetrating and vibrant sound, The thickness of the metal will also play an effect on this as well. To summarize, theres no real single contributor to why a different bocal will make the impact it can on a specific instrument.
What a fantastic reply! Thanks, Chad. Great info.
I think that Brand Names can carry a bit of prestige and a known level of craftsmanship. But I have played bocals by the top companies that did not match my instrument and then played amazing bocals (with the same numbers and made by the same company) that did matched my instrument. They are all unique. It sounds like this scenario was a match! Too bad there wasn't an option to buy!
+Eryn Oft I appreciate the reply!
BTW, I spelled "Kohlert" wrong...
For sure! I love hearing from you. And if I had a dime for every time spell check changed BOCAL to Local or Vocal.. I would be rich! :)
I just started to play bassoon and my reed keeps falls off my Bocal sometimes. I don't know if it is the reed or Bocal, but I can still play. Btw, I love watching your videos, they help me learn about the bassoon! (:
I mean it falls of sometimes, but I might not be putting the reed on far enough.
I'm so happy you're enjoying the videos. Happy to Help! It may be that the bocal and reed size do not match up. You can buy a reamer to make the inside of the reed wider. It might also be that you are using too much tension in your embouchure. Try placing your top lip on the reed and then playing while you move the bottom lip off so that the air leaks. This can help remove a bit of the tension in the jaw and help your reed stay on the bocal. Let me now how it all work out! Cheers- E
+Eryn Oft Okay, thanks for the reply! I will try these ideas and see if they work. If not, it might just be the reeds I have.
You're Right. If you do reem the reeds to fit better on the bocal be sure to do it when the reeds are still dry! It's better for the reemer and creates a more seamless tube on the inside of the reed. :)
I used to do it too as a beginner it’s easy to be scared to push a little on the reed and you tend to chomp down on the reed and pull it off. Loosening up will help you a lot
Grazie buono e utile la spiegazione come in altre occasioni...
Happy to Help! Thanks for watching. :)
Did you mention in another one of your videos that you play jazz bassoon? If so how did you start because I would love to do that.
Yes, I have dabbled in Jazz bassoon. I started by learning the chord progressions and then how to improv over them. I'm not a rockstar at it but it is fun. :)
Would you say it could also change what reed would pair well with your bassoon?
I usually keep my reed style pretty consistent. I like to play with one variable at a time so that I get a scientific result. I know exactly what caused the changes. But you could definitely alter the full set up with different reeds and bocals. This is the fun that goes with playing bassoon- so many options!
I know this is an intermediate question, but does every bassoonist have trouble going from third octave A to G? I've only been playing for about 3 years. Recently have been going into the third octave.
Hi there,
For the third octave you need a faster air speed. A good way to check your air speed is with balloons. And you could even try a bit stronger cane. Very soft cane will make the higher notes on bassoon more challenging. Happy Bassoon-ing!
Thank you so much for the interesting videos! I will start playing the bassoon in September (and I’m so hyped up about it that I started watching all the videos I could find). Do you have any recommendations for beginner bassoon methods/books?
Happy to help! I'm excited for your bassoon adventures. If playing all alone I like the First Division Band Books because the tunes all sound familiar. But use the fingering form my Beginning Bassoon Fingerings Video. The fingering charts are not my favorite in the books.
thanks! I'll try to order that method. I will be getting lessons from an oboe teacher, so luckely I'm not completely on my own :D (we're a bit short on bassoon teachers closeby)
I'm always here if you bump into any challenges!
How do you afford this all.
I don't own all of these bocals, I took photos at IDRS. But I do work three jobs and all of them are bassoon related- this is my line of work. So all Haul Videos are paid for with work monies.
Great vid
Thank you!
That’s it I’m subscribing