0:01 intro 1:28 upgrading rails 2:35 motion control products website 3:39 roller guides 6:18 controller and BOB 7:03 difference between steppers and servos 12:38 difference between ball rails and roller guides 23:10 testing jig 28:24 straightness test with light 31:56 summary Well done Fox :) that is seriously EPIC!!! -Ken
Love your videos and probably you are the first one who talks about preload blocks. I never saw or heard anybody talks about it. Please keep up with good videos and try to post weekly videos... Cheers.
Hey Mr. Fox. Thanks a lot for all of the explanation of all of the things. I've been looking for such video for months. There needs to be more content like this, especially explaining things clearly like you do. I know you're probably done by now with your build, but I'm just starting watching all of your videos, so I cross my fingers for fox-of-past. :D
Measuring the rails, without attaching to anything, basically proves, if you have thicker steel, it bends less. This is why these have so many holes, so you can fix it to a precision surface. If you fix the "small" one to a surface, set the straight also, then you need to measure the parralelism between the flat surface and the ball channels. That would gives a good indication of preciseness, this way you measure the result of surface hardening's tension. The big roller guide have more non hardened volume compared to hardened that the small ones, so it can handle the tension more, which way it deforms less after the process. Ball vs roller I kinda agree.
Hey Fox, thanks for the inspiring build. Did you consider using (porous media) air bearings? You get ones that work on a linear rail, or for granite machines you can use the flat bearing type straight on the granite surface. New Ways Flat Rectangular Air Bearings catalogue shows an example of this. They market them as: zero friction/wear/vibration, high acceleration, precision positioning ... sounds like the holy grail :D I saw a couple of YT'ers making them DIY - David Preiss, Applied Science and Machine Tech Video Blog. With your skills and machine you could surely make them, then add an air bearing spindle to have the ultimate in surface finish. Would be great to see someone else trying their own graphite air bearings!
Hey Piotr again, one more comment. Just saw you had been tinkering with drones in 2013 too and now you are into CNC. Me too. You can see some of my first experiments at "Rockford Quadcopter" on TH-cam from 2013; I started designing a controller in 2009. Additionally, I should mention I got into the CNC because I needed to cut some carbon fiber parts. After seeing TH-cam videos of how people are doing it, and the junk CNC machines being sold, I decided to try and build a low end machine myself since the machines from China are just crap. At the same time, due to mission creep, now I want to cut precision aluminum parts too on my carbon fiber cutting CNC. Now I am on track to build a CNC... Looking forward to your next videos on this project with great enthusiasm!
Yes, I really like my UCCNC , UC300ETH it has serial tx/rx one reason I chose it over Acorn etc, (can talk to any microcontroller oriented custom devices (axis/robots) so avoid i/o limitations in the future) also less expensive, and great friendly support.
Thank You so much for sharing your knowledge with us! Wish i could built one for myself, but i am to scared of the complicated electronic and programming ^^
Finally!! I was wondering why you didn’t choose those components in the first place but anyways I knew it will be just a matter of time when I’m gonna see this video! :D Now you know where all waiting for the instalment so keep it up! :D Best regards from Slovenia! AS
i switched to closed loop steppers and the are awesome (integrated ones. with matched and tuned driver on motor itself). i use them in 1/10 microstep mode and it is very quiet with no vibration (they are switching between steps differently than regular steppers. feels like driver uses sine instead of hard pulses). and my Z stays in place when turned off ))
thank you ;D I'm just trying to explain what I'm doing and why. In my mind stuff like this is really interesting and i want to share it, because it is cool :D
Interesting and impressive roller linear system. I was likely just as surprised as you were by the amount of wrarpage in the otherwise miracle of a rail. I strongly suspect that the bow is from when they heat treated the surfaces for the rollers. Perhaps it moved in time, after it cooled. I saw a cracked granite something or another in the beginning to the video . Gulp : O I should think that the rails can be (straightened). Perhaps you could also borrow 2 box or "I" beams from a construction site, and use a hydraulic bottle-jack to bend it, with standoffs on both ends. You would have to rig up something to hold the beams together, with likely a thousand kilograms of force. Two heavy lifting-style chains might be able to hold it together. The going would be tough because everything will want to move until there is pressure on it. The beams would be laid down on a table on two boards to hold them off of the table. The chains could be looped on each side and hooked around themselves. The bottle jack goes in the middle also suspended in the middle of the beams. A block may be taped to the sides of each end of the rail, to slightly reduce the aggravation of the setup. The rail goes between the chained together beam with the bottle jack at middle. Then you could work the jack bending the beam in a trial and error kind of way. The chain may want to skip around corners while it is being tightened. An assistant might help hold everything together. Also, you might be able to rent a portable hydraulic ram, which are used in body shops and building trades. If all else fails, the rail might be straitened by heating the back with a torch and letting it cool. It will shrink. Though, it's a hard thing to control, and you don't want to lose the heat treatment on the contact surface. I guess that you can always heat it more, but not less. Perhaps a non-contact thermometer might help, if they go they high. [When I was making my CNC, I shorted a few rails. There I was with an electric saws-all, cutting the rail. I could not believe how well it was going. I was half way through the rail--when I hit the (likely) induction hardened surface. And that was that for the blade. I needed to finish with an abrasive cut-off wheel. The rails were NHK Japanese ones that were being saved from being thrown into a scrap metal dumpster all a lot of nice robotic parts.]
17:31 - I believe imperfections is not what makes rollers better - rollers contact area is a line opposite to a dot for balls. Which makes them way more stiff
my intention was to show that its easier to make rollers than balls, and even if the rollers are not perfect they are way better than balls. plus under the pressure balls will travel on the grove from side to side. i guess i have to work harder on expressing my thoughts better.
Why do I need a high precision mill? well.. because i already have a hammer and an axe :D sorry i had to :D i do high end prototypes and camera equipment, not sure if i can mention for who.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Hope y' find some ball screws soon! I'm waiting for the last few bits for my first CNC router build (plywood, but quite small, so hopefully fairly accurate); following your builds with great interest!👍😊
Lol yes you are insane. The rails on my Haas VF-2 are 35mm and I believe Datron machines are running 20mm in their machines. You have some beast rails on that machine no doubt.
i know :D as i mentioned 30mm would be just fine. but i got those in the price of new regular Chinese rails 20mm size. So it is overkill but they are so good that i have to use them. I'm not looking for high speed, I'm just after perfect finish and rigidity.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Saw something similar on another build where the guy went out of his way to buy 32mm ballscrews for a small, aluminum extrusion based cnc router. The same size screw that's on my Fadal with 2kw servos lol Some just think bigger is better, but if the design has to change significantly or the added mass just slows the machine down without adding rigidity, then it only hurts the machine. If the parts were cheaper, however, then I say go for it.
@@ReiniGrauer on aluminium extrusion those 32mm rails become the strongest part of the machine :) in my case granite frame is super rigid and i didn't wanted to have any play coming from the rails. 45 are perfect for Y axis, 32 would be ideal for the X. but for this price i have to make it work. those rails are just to nice to don't give it a try.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki he was using a 32mm screw, not rail. I think with a nema23 stepper too haha. I'm not sure how he even sourced the motor coupler for that combination.
This could be cool but im not sure if it could be as precise under the load. I would gladly do a review of it if someone is willing to send it my way ;)
Oh nice, I'll be following! My son and I have each built almost identical coolant systems to yours for our Tormach 1100MXs. It is a total game changer! The chips get washed away and the machines stay clean. Thanks for your help! I promised a video and I'll get around to it eventually. I posted a short FB vid, but will follow up here on TH-cam! I am curious, do you use your machine for contract work or is it just for your personal use? My son and I are both makng parts for our own companies.
hey, I'm glad i could help :) and I'm glad you like it. I'm sure now you won't go back to normal coolant methods :) I will look forward to see your video. i have build this machine for my personal use and now its used 100% for the high end contract work. its crazy!
Hi Piotr, I really appreciate your videos and the deeper understanding of how things work and what is important! Wondering: 1. Is this how the rails come from the factory, or is this after they've been dropped from a conveyor, put under a heavy pile of other packages etc.? I know that for long pieces of CRS, warehouse guys sometimes lift them from the middle with a forklift and put a bend in them. 2. Is it reasonably possible to straighten the rails?
i know, handling might be an issue. but those rexroth rails have very consistent bow in them. which let me believe it must be related to heat treatment. straightening usually is done by screwing them down to the machine bed which is straight and very thick. so for my y axis im not troubled by it because i have like 300mm of granite. so it wont distort granite it will just confirm to it. problem is with x axis on the gantry. where thickness of the granite is 50mm. and thickness of the rail i 40mm. im sure granite will bend. i did tests when i was building it and on the span of 1000mm it was bending 2microns under 20kg load. so my options are. leave it as it is and have slight bow in gantry. try to straightening them a bit more. i will give it a go. make a thicker gantry. but this would increase weight, which I'm trying to avoid
@@PiotrFoxWysocki yes, I know. That's why I appreciate your effort of making these videos. Very excited. Good luck with an upgrade and future challenges
Hi Piotr - are you using the same size of linear rails on all axis? What size of ball screws are you using in pair? Thank you again for your answers and sharing your project!
i had an idea to use 45 size on all but than i i was concerned about the weight, size , sickout of x axis with possible problems of driving z axis, so i went and bought 25 size roller guides and 25 size ground ball screws. please check episode 2 and 2.2.
to be with in 1 micron you dont need air bearings. just good rails like i got now for the upgrade. rexroth 45mm. or smaller. they are under a micron or around there. IMHO air bearings are a bit too tricky and not necessary.
I would recommend a more robust motion controller if you’ll be going through all the hassle of upgrading. I personally went through a few and so far I’m very happy with Centroid.
centroid is not that much different from this what i got. if i wont be happy enough with mine one i lan to give this one a try en.cs-lab.eu/product/csmioip-a-ethernet-motion-controller-10v-6-axis-with-connectors/?fbclid=IwAR1tHbZhrp2sDIs57u_vXVgflIgeoGsaJn2Crusji4_hU1jiUHnajYff6yY
A popular upgrade for Chinese rails is to replace the balls with fresh ceramic high tolerance balls. I would be interested to see how much that would improve your rails accuracy? Perhaps for the X axis?
i did replaced ball bearings in the screws and rails with ceramic ones. it did improve quality a bit but it wasn't anything spectacular. but it did removed backlash. that's why i decided its time to do the upgrade, before this quick fix will wear out.
Hi.nice stuff you have there.good luck with upgrade.I have to tell you that is overkill 45 size for your CNC.this guide type goes in machine that have over 15kw power and over 4000kg.Also you should consider 750w servo.But i am sure that you will make good job.
I agree it's overkill, but im using it to have my rails as rigid as possible and precise. 45 size was just a side effect of this what was available. I think 30 would be perfect.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki I hope the servos will compensate the extra preload and weight. Kinda worried for you about that and the force that the rails will apply to the granite gantry when you screw and so flatten it.
Think you will have issues getting good accelerations and rapids with those large rails and small motors. Just the extra resistance of the rails may cause issues and any binding if not perfectly aligned will easily bind the machine.
im looking for 3000mm/min travel speed. i don't need any more than that. I'm sure those servos will keep up. currently i have nema 23 from my old 6040 chinese cnc and they can move 60kg gantry no problem. I'm aware or binding problems if something is not aligned, I will pay extra attention to that.
Piotr Fox Wysocki ok I understand I thought maybe faster rapids would be wanted. For 3d profiling and high rpm spindle cutting speeds can approach 3000mm/min. Also I saw you video on belt conveyer that was very cool idea and I want to incorporate something similar.
@@ianagos4276 if i will get better rapids than what i have it will be a bonus :) but I'm mostly focusing on the finish quality than speed. sometimes its good to have some time to react when you make a mistake and you have to hit emergency button :) This conveyor belt is great. i just switch full bins of chips with empty ones. no more swiping, wiping, and no more mess around the machine.
I think you should make a gofundme to buy all new parts for your new machine, in order to donate your old machine to a university or makerspace of your choosing
Those roller bearings are EXPENSIVE! Very good argument for their use though. If this is a "high end" state-of-the-art machine, then why the clunky motion controller and why not the AXBB-E (UCCNC) or XHC mach3 controller? Lots of good info. I'm glad I just started on my CNC project and I have not bought any components yet! How lucky for me to come across your video...After looking at the Chinese CNC routers, like the 6090s, I realized they are junk! Unreal that people are buying that trash. I see people who have then do this upgrade and that upgrade and end up with something not a tall like what they got from China. As a computer software/hardware engineer with some machine tool experience, I'm glad I didn't get suckered into a Chinese CNC; thanks to TH-cam'rs. Now I will start from scratch including having parts water-jet cut, etc., and after your video, I'm back to the drawing board to rethink my design... Now you got me going out to find real small roller bearing linear guides; cannot use those monsters you have! Looks like ball bearing will suffice. About the servos though, steppers can hold position; locking the axis while another moves, do the servos lock (have not read up on servos)? You don't say anything about actual operation compares to servos. I don't see the point of the light test of the rails, they will be bolted to a precision ground surface anyway. The big rails are bowed; perhaps made that way since you will be bolting them down (presumed by the mfgr to a cast iron base and NOT granite), but don't see any mounting holes in them. Finally, we cannot see what it is you are upgrading other than a black box with a window! Thanks!
servos can hold the position just like steppers, i will talk more bout servos later on. light test on the rail was to check if they are straight. my granite gantry is 50mm thick, and if rails are bent too much they will bend my granite gantry or break. so i have to straighten them up. they have mounting holes but they are covered by metal cover strip. sorry for not showing the machine, i kinda assumed that viewers are familiar with it. thanks for pointing it out.
yes, this is what i have been doing on those cheap Chinese rails. but i have been doing it by hand. but if you do this on a surface grinder, it should be perfect. one thing which is tricky would be the quality of the ball groves.
Hello Mr. Fox. I have watched your granite build videos many times, and find your design very interesting. I haven't seen that you have told us the working envelope of your gantry machine (X,Y,Z), and would ask if you could give us those numbers? I have inherited a very large granite slab, of 1500x1020x170 mm. It used to be the table of a very precise 4 spindle drilling machine for circuit boards. The last 20 years, it has been a garden table in my fathers garden. I am planning to have this slab cut into suitable pieces for a gantry cnc machine. It will need some lapping to bring it back to spec of course. My first design sketches, i have a table of 1020 in X direction (gantry width) and 600 in the Y-direction. However, I see that only half of the Y-axis will be usable. Thanks for taking the time to document your journey to build the granite CNC.
my machine is 900mm x 600mm. and working area is 700mm x 380mm. if you want to have whole area usable you will have to extend the side walls beyond the machine to accommodate thickness of the gantry with the spindle. personally i don't use that much space because vises are not that long. but who knows you might be doing different things so you might want something larger.
Is that a crack in your granite behind the closed loop stepper in your demo? Hoping it's not. Awesome video as always, I was starting to save for my build based on yours but managed to buy a Schaublin 13, with some of its other heads and work holding so I am broke for a while. At least when it's set up I'll be able to make some of the parts for my build now. And hopefully I'll be able to use your new developments to make it better too. Keep up the good work and thanks!
Actuality it is broken straight edge behind those mottors. I got one sent and it got broken in shipping. But i got replacement. Broken one is used now for sanding.
That was is an awesome upgrade ! Have you considered LinuxCnc with linear encoders to correct the backlash of your actual or futur ballscrew ? A new C5 could be cheaper and give as precise of a motion as a C3, definitely more work though. Also, what's the brand of your closed loop steppers ? Looks like the one from StepperOnline.
;) i haven't made any upgrade yet;) just explained few components and why. I definitely set my mind on to c3 ballscrews. For the lenghts i need variation would be 13 and 18 microns. Im more than happy with this number. For now at least. I can't imagine I would ever need to be this precise. But one thing i sure i want surface finish to be as close to perfection as it is possible. Closed loop stepper on the video is from stepper online. They are cheap and they send stuff really quick.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Yeah so you can get some feedback right x) I found another comment that add details to what I'm saying about the ballscrew. Even better, here is an example underload (~9min): th-cam.com/video/dRJMk4hkUvY/w-d-xo.html I don't remember if they are C7 or C5, but they are mounted on a regular Chinese bearing block without angular contact ball bearings. You can see it's pretty precise, I'm just concerned about the vibrations that occur when that much backlash is compensated, maybe a drawback for the great surface finish you need. Thanks for the note about StepperOnline ! They are really cheap so I was curious to have some feedback, at least about the motor. I can use a higher quality open loop driver and closed the loop in LinuxCnc if the driver is not good enough.
I misspelled. They are actually double nut rolled ball screw (so not too bad) with bk15 bearings blocks modified to fit a pair of cheap angular contact ball bearings. Still as he has demonstrated the linear encoders greatly improve the accuracy of the machine, even tacking out the backlash of cheap couplers.
I love the Polgardi Desgin stuff. I actually know thy guy personally who makes them. These are epic. I also love the wireless handwheel, what they selling. Not cheap, but gamechanger. I hope you will share the experience about the controller. Will you use it with the own software, or just mach3 it?
@@PiotrFoxWysocki As I know it works fine with that. If you ran any trouble, I can give you contact to the guy who makes the firmware, so you can work things out fast :)
Hey Piotr, awesome upgrade, I wanted to ask you is DeWalt PV45-PRO still holding good? I am building CNC with solid granite and I am now in the process of drilling and putting anchors in. Thanks.
I have the UC300ETH and it's great... Very boring - it just does everything well and gets out of the way. I do use UCCNC control SW (not Mach3/4) which supports the UC300ETH well...
i think it is mach better to invest in linear scale instead of prison ground ball screw . think about it . the controller will fix any irregularity in the screw and most of ether irregularity in the mechanical system of the CNC do to the feedback from the prison scale . and yeah those are big A** linear rails :) . can't wait to see the next vid
with c3 ground ball screws i will have 10-20 microns positioning error. over the whole distance, so at the smaller distances it will be less. anyway, at the moment im perfectly happy with this number. and if i will need to improve it i can always map the ball screw or get linear scales. im trying to keep it simple at the moment.
Cześć Piotr, Zastanawiam się czemu chcesz używać sygnału step dir? Przy takim updacie warto zastanowić się nad pełną pętlą zamkniętą, index homing, s curve profile, np. csmio ip a + Sim cnc
a kto powiedzial ze sie nie zastanawialem :D jak mi ten kontroler nie pociagnie to mam w planach zmienic na csmio :) tlatego na wideo powiedzialem ze nie jestem pewien czy zostawie ten kontroler co mam :D
This size of rails are used in huge and very expensive Mazak, Hermle and DMG machine centers, even if they are going to improve slightly the machine, they are not a balance choice by any means. Your machine will look like those cars with the huge aftermarket rear wing.
WOW!!! There you have some really nice stuff for your upgrade! And you will find a way to get the bow out of the rail...But why dont you use Eding CNC? It´s Ethernet based and everything runs on 24V Go have a look at their controllers
@@kd_design if this one fails i hav in mind this one en.cs-lab.eu/product/csmioip-a-ethernet-motion-controller-10v-6-axis-with-connectors/?fbclid=IwAR1tHbZhrp2sDIs57u_vXVgflIgeoGsaJn2Crusji4_hU1jiUHnajYff6yY if this one fails than i will go and try other ones :D
Jestem w szoku, zdradzisz mi, czy ten sprzęt zarobił na swoje ulepszenia, czy dokładasz do swojego hobby cały czas ? Mam onreda na tych serwach, jak masz śruby 5-taki to bez przełożenia będzie to super chodzić na szybkim pozwie 15 000mm/min
To jusz od 1.5 roku przestalo byc hobby, ta maszyna to zarobila juz na siebie, i in na nowa DMG MORI albo jakas inna 5axis maszyne :) ten upgrade wyjdzie mnie duzo mniej niz kupowanie nowej, a jakosc po tym upgradzie powinna byc podobna. a maszyna duzo mniejsza i na 240v.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Moje gratulacje, sam mam większy sprzęt i firmę ( po etacie próbuję to rozwinąć ) i niestety mi aż tak super nie idzie ;-( więc ciągnę etat plus własna firma. A może masz jakieś zlecenia które chętnie byś przerzucił gdzieś indziej ?
@Piotr Fox Wysocki You are right, these rails might bend your granite base. But this big pars are assuming you are going to bolt them on to something very strong and rigid! And it's somewhat funny, you are commenting about others saying linear rails that glide easy and free are best, and commenting on that the best and most precise ones are the ones that don't glide so easy..... But then later in the video you go on about that the precision rails are bad because they are bowed..... But think of it, they are preloaded in all other ways. Isn't it obvious that they are preloaded this way too? I mean look at how consistent the bow is between the parts. So you make the same mistake as the ones saying the rails that glide easy are the best..... There's nothing wrong with the bow, it's designed inn, as preload! In your case this might be a problem yes. But these parts are intended to be bolted on to something rigid enough to make the end result perfectly straight and stiff. One solution you might consider is puting on an opposing part on the other side of the granite block, to compensate for the bending forces introduced by the rail. And the absolutely best solution then would be to mount two rails symetrically on the granite blocks. Then they will perfectly cancel out the bow from each other! Alt least in your Z and Y axis this would be relatively easy. And for X you could bolt on an opposing steel rail of some sort, and measure the bow as you go, and then compensate by tightening the opposing bow from the underside. So, as you can see there is no free lunch. Going up in size on the rails have it's own issues that will have to be dealt with. But when you have done it ti will be waaaay more rigid and precise, so it will be worth it!
Linear rails are like wet noodles until mounted, so your measurements are fairly meaningless. When evenly bolted to a comparatively stiff surface then they will conform to that surface. The greater precision the bearing block, the flatter that surface needs to be. Read the manufacturer's technical documentation for guidance there, and also bolt torque and recommended mounting procedure. It is common to have a flat shoulder to push the rail against to ensure that it is straight in a second axis, at least for one rail. The second parallel rail is sometimes left unconstrained in that second axis and pulled straight by the connecting saddle.
Rób nową maszynkę. Wrzeciono z 10kW do takich prowadnic. Sam mam 45mm NSK w osi Y i są groźne :-) Oś X to 30mm THK. Z pozostaje do zmiany bo jest na chińskich 20mm (30mm THK już czekają na montaż). Maszynka waży 1.5t i nie boi się rąbać głowicą 50mm w stali :) Aaa i te serwa 400W mogą być za słabe...
Nie mam miejsca na nowa. Ale tak sie wacham bo to ma sens zobic nowa ale z drugiej strony to wiecej toboty i kasy. No a potem zostane z rozbebeszana maszyna. Serwa powinny dac rade. Tez nie zalezy mi na kosmicznych predkosciach tylko na jakosci wykonczenia.
@@1050cnc w obecnej chwili to nawet srub nie kupie. mamy tu totalny lockdown. jak tak dalej pojdzie to nie wiem czy bede mial za co te sruby kupic. zobaczymy jak to bedzie..
You should chossen clear path servo...way better performance....fyi you don't measure the the Precision of a rail on the back side ...must measure on rail face which ground too.
@@paulnovak833 clear path makes dedicated servo...im not talking about steppers ....sc and mc motors www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-mc/ www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-sc/
they are straight and with the same height once bolted. its just the bow. normally its not a problem, because you bolt it down to flat surface. I had idea to use them on the gantry, but now i changed my mind. but i straightened them anyway.
Piotr, send me an email to clivemilne@gmail.com and I'll show you where to access accurate (C0/1 & 2) NSK ball screws... they'll be under 500 US dollars per screw. They are "salvaged" in the sense that they were an OEM item but no longer required and on-sold.. Still in the original packaging, and you will need to do some machining to get them to fit your machine... But, you know... screws like this don't come up that often at 20% of the retail price. Just to be clear... I personally am not selling anything...Just pointing you in the right direction.
0:01 intro
1:28 upgrading rails
2:35 motion control products website
3:39 roller guides
6:18 controller and BOB
7:03 difference between steppers and servos
12:38 difference between ball rails and roller guides
23:10 testing jig
28:24 straightness test with light
31:56 summary
Well done Fox :) that is seriously EPIC!!!
-Ken
Love your videos and probably you are the first one who talks about preload blocks. I never saw or heard anybody talks about it. Please keep up with good videos and try to post weekly videos... Cheers.
Hey Mr. Fox. Thanks a lot for all of the explanation of all of the things. I've been looking for such video for months. There needs to be more content like this, especially explaining things clearly like you do. I know you're probably done by now with your build, but I'm just starting watching all of your videos, so I cross my fingers for fox-of-past. :D
Thank you. 😊 my early videos where more focused on the idea than production quality 😉 so it might be hard to watch 😉
@@PiotrFoxWysocki The load of information makes it all up. It's just all gold.
You’re very good at finding a simple way to visually demonstrate something relatively complex
Thank you for noticing 😉 I'm always trying to explain why. This way it makes more sense for someone who haven't done this before.
Man those new pieces are looking pretty serious. Can't wait to see it all assembled and working!
Haha. Yeah so do I. Btw I visited your desk today 12.30 but you went on a lunch :(
I'm looking forward to this series, this is awesome. It would be great if you could share a BOM and cost list after you're done.
Hi, Fox I just found your channel and I really like your work. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and taking the time to record the footage.
I can't believe that it's just bolted together like that, and works so well.
Measuring the rails, without attaching to anything, basically proves, if you have thicker steel, it bends less. This is why these have so many holes, so you can fix it to a precision surface. If you fix the "small" one to a surface, set the straight also, then you need to measure the parralelism between the flat surface and the ball channels. That would gives a good indication of preciseness, this way you measure the result of surface hardening's tension. The big roller guide have more non hardened volume compared to hardened that the small ones, so it can handle the tension more, which way it deforms less after the process.
Ball vs roller I kinda agree.
Instant subscribe once you pulled out that giant linear guide.
I love how Piotr says "I'm gonna leave the granite frame and spindle as those are perfect" Course they are Piotr :D YOU MADE THE FRAME lol
haha. i know how it sounds :) but facts are facts :D
@@PiotrFoxWysocki hi. Progress? Hope you're well.
-Ken.
Hey Fox, thanks for the inspiring build. Did you consider using (porous media) air bearings? You get ones that work on a linear rail, or for granite machines you can use the flat bearing type straight on the granite surface.
New Ways Flat Rectangular Air Bearings catalogue shows an example of this. They market them as: zero friction/wear/vibration, high acceleration, precision positioning ... sounds like the holy grail :D
I saw a couple of YT'ers making them DIY - David Preiss, Applied Science and Machine Tech Video Blog. With your skills and machine you could surely make them, then add an air bearing spindle to have the ultimate in surface finish.
Would be great to see someone else trying their own graphite air bearings!
crazy upgrades to an already crazy machine
Hey Piotr again, one more comment. Just saw you had been tinkering with drones in 2013 too and now you are into CNC. Me too. You can see some of my first experiments at "Rockford Quadcopter" on TH-cam from 2013; I started designing a controller in 2009.
Additionally, I should mention I got into the CNC because I needed to cut some carbon fiber parts. After seeing TH-cam videos of how people are doing it, and the junk CNC machines being sold, I decided to try and build a low end machine myself since the machines from China are just crap. At the same time, due to mission creep, now I want to cut precision aluminum parts too on my carbon fiber cutting CNC. Now I am on track to build a CNC...
Looking forward to your next videos on this project with great enthusiasm!
this is crazy , youre current machine is my dream machine for the home shop
Yes, I really like my UCCNC , UC300ETH it has serial tx/rx one reason I chose it over Acorn etc, (can talk to any microcontroller oriented custom devices (axis/robots) so avoid i/o limitations in the future) also less expensive, and great friendly support.
Fox, as always, very well thought out and presented information... Looking forward to further episodes.
Thank you ;)
I can't wait to see the complete install
so do i :D
Copy that.... love your videos keep them coming please👍👍
Great explanation & illustrated with the gauge was the icing on the cake, Thank-you so much.
Welcome back here we talk you really want the others to run a way. DIY to the other level great man.
hmm.. its not my intention to chase people away. i was rather hoping that they will follow the light :D
@@PiotrFoxWysocki your work is really a beauty. Keep going.
Great inspiration, starting my own cnc build soon also in "stone", actually JFA made from Swedish Diabas.
Thank You so much for sharing your knowledge with us! Wish i could built one for myself, but i am to scared of the complicated electronic and programming ^^
Finally!!
I was wondering why you didn’t choose those components in the first place but anyways I knew it will be just a matter of time when I’m gonna see this video! :D
Now you know where all waiting for the instalment so keep it up! :D
Best regards from Slovenia!
AS
i switched to closed loop steppers and the are awesome (integrated ones. with matched and tuned driver on motor itself).
i use them in 1/10 microstep mode and it is very quiet with no vibration (they are switching between steps differently than regular steppers. feels like driver uses sine instead of hard pulses).
and my Z stays in place when turned off ))
Fantastic!! Thank you for your videos, they’re incredibly educational!!
thank you ;D I'm just trying to explain what I'm doing and why. In my mind stuff like this is really interesting and i want to share it, because it is cool :D
Interesting and impressive roller linear system. I was likely just as surprised as you were by the amount of wrarpage in the otherwise miracle of a rail. I strongly suspect that the bow is from when they heat treated the surfaces for the rollers. Perhaps it moved in time, after it cooled. I saw a cracked granite something or another in the beginning to the video . Gulp : O
I should think that the rails can be (straightened). Perhaps you could also borrow 2 box or "I" beams from a construction site, and use a hydraulic bottle-jack to bend it, with standoffs on both ends.
You would have to rig up something to hold the beams together, with likely a thousand kilograms of force. Two heavy lifting-style chains might be able to hold it together. The going would be tough because everything will want to move until there is pressure on it. The beams would be laid down on a table on two boards to hold them off of the table. The chains could be looped on each side and hooked around themselves. The bottle jack goes in the middle also suspended in the middle of the beams. A block may be taped to the sides of each end of the rail, to slightly reduce the aggravation of the setup. The rail goes between the chained together beam with the bottle jack at middle. Then you could work the jack bending the beam in a trial and error kind of way. The chain may want to skip around corners while it is being tightened. An assistant might help hold everything together. Also, you might be able to rent a portable hydraulic ram, which are used in body shops and building trades.
If all else fails, the rail might be straitened by heating the back with a torch and letting it cool. It will shrink. Though, it's a hard thing to control, and you don't want to lose the heat treatment on the contact surface. I guess that you can always heat it more, but not less. Perhaps a non-contact thermometer might help, if they go they high.
[When I was making my CNC, I shorted a few rails. There I was with an electric saws-all, cutting the rail. I could not believe how well it was going. I was half way through the rail--when I hit the (likely) induction hardened surface. And that was that for the blade. I needed to finish with an abrasive cut-off wheel. The rails were NHK Japanese ones that were being saved from being thrown into a scrap metal dumpster all a lot of nice robotic parts.]
Really professional.
I have been waiting two months for this
sorry, corona happened in the middle of it and i can't get more parts for it...
Piotr Fox Wysocki no problem I completely understand.. Stay safe!! I will keep checking back
Insane, maybe. But I'm inspired, thanks so much for taking the time to share all the relevant links!
Wow, really looking forward to this series!
17:31 - I believe imperfections is not what makes rollers better - rollers contact area is a line opposite to a dot for balls. Which makes them way more stiff
my intention was to show that its easier to make rollers than balls, and even if the rollers are not perfect they are way better than balls. plus under the pressure balls will travel on the grove from side to side. i guess i have to work harder on expressing my thoughts better.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki I understand the challenge of not being a native speaker. All good ;)
Roller rail guides... uncompromisingly.
UC300ETH + UCBB is a great choice. I use them on several machines.
Why do you need a high precision mill?
What kind of parts do you make and for whom?
Why do I need a high precision mill? well.. because i already have a hammer and an axe :D sorry i had to :D
i do high end prototypes and camera equipment, not sure if i can mention for who.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Cool. I used to make equipment for Kadak.
Nice!. I guess you meant kodak?
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Yes, Kodak. Made photo equipment for 3D (autostereo) photography.
Excellent! Checking my inbox hourly for the next episode...! :)
haha :) chill, it might take a while for the next one. i still have to source some ball screws. but i guess i could start on working on the new table.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Hope y' find some ball screws soon! I'm waiting for the last few bits for my first CNC router build (plywood, but quite small, so hopefully fairly accurate); following your builds with great interest!👍😊
Lol yes you are insane. The rails on my Haas VF-2 are 35mm and I believe Datron machines are running 20mm in their machines. You have some beast rails on that machine no doubt.
i know :D as i mentioned 30mm would be just fine. but i got those in the price of new regular Chinese rails 20mm size. So it is overkill but they are so good that i have to use them. I'm not looking for high speed, I'm just after perfect finish and rigidity.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Saw something similar on another build where the guy went out of his way to buy 32mm ballscrews for a small, aluminum extrusion based cnc router. The same size screw that's on my Fadal with 2kw servos lol
Some just think bigger is better, but if the design has to change significantly or the added mass just slows the machine down without adding rigidity, then it only hurts the machine.
If the parts were cheaper, however, then I say go for it.
@@ReiniGrauer on aluminium extrusion those 32mm rails become the strongest part of the machine :) in my case granite frame is super rigid and i didn't wanted to have any play coming from the rails. 45 are perfect for Y axis, 32 would be ideal for the X.
but for this price i have to make it work. those rails are just to nice to don't give it a try.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki he was using a 32mm screw, not rail. I think with a nema23 stepper too haha. I'm not sure how he even sourced the motor coupler for that combination.
@@ReiniGrauer wow. i have to say, this is impressive :) screw is almost the size of the motor :D
I was hoping you'd be upgrading to linear motor stages. I'm still waiting for the prices to come down enough to get a few for my self.
This could be cool but im not sure if it could be as precise under the load. I would gladly do a review of it if someone is willing to send it my way ;)
Very informative video Piotr, thanks!
Roller rail guides...hooo hooo, tis a good kind of crazy.
Oh nice, I'll be following! My son and I have each built almost identical coolant systems to yours for our Tormach 1100MXs. It is a total game changer! The chips get washed away and the machines stay clean. Thanks for your help! I promised a video and I'll get around to it eventually. I posted a short FB vid, but will follow up here on TH-cam!
I am curious, do you use your machine for contract work or is it just for your personal use? My son and I are both makng parts for our own companies.
hey, I'm glad i could help :) and I'm glad you like it. I'm sure now you won't go back to normal coolant methods :) I will look forward to see your video.
i have build this machine for my personal use and now its used 100% for the high end contract work. its crazy!
I wonder if the improved rigidity is worth the energy cost & speed loss due to friction given the unavoidable deflection of the frame and stuff
If you made it accurate then there won't be any deflection caused by friction. Btw. Frame is made out of granite, not aluminum extrusion
Hi Piotr, I really appreciate your videos and the deeper understanding of how things work and what is important!
Wondering:
1. Is this how the rails come from the factory, or is this after they've been dropped from a conveyor, put under a heavy pile of other packages etc.? I know that for long pieces of CRS, warehouse guys sometimes lift them from the middle with a forklift and put a bend in them.
2. Is it reasonably possible to straighten the rails?
i know, handling might be an issue. but those rexroth rails have very consistent bow in them. which let me believe it must be related to heat treatment.
straightening usually is done by screwing them down to the machine bed which is straight and very thick.
so for my y axis im not troubled by it because i have like 300mm of granite. so it wont distort granite it will just confirm to it.
problem is with x axis on the gantry. where thickness of the granite is 50mm. and thickness of the rail i 40mm.
im sure granite will bend. i did tests when i was building it and on the span of 1000mm it was bending 2microns under 20kg load.
so my options are.
leave it as it is and have slight bow in gantry.
try to straightening them a bit more. i will give it a go.
make a thicker gantry. but this would increase weight, which I'm trying to avoid
Nice! Looking forward for next video :) Interesting stuff and nice to see those linear roller guideways!
do you know what happened to the servo kit?
Finally. Welcome back
recently I'm very very busy man :) but i will be posting upgrades as much i can.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki yes, I know. That's why I appreciate your effort of making these videos. Very excited.
Good luck with an upgrade and future challenges
Is there a way to get plans or CAD
Hi Piotr - are you using the same size of linear rails on all axis? What size of ball screws are you using in pair? Thank you again for your answers and sharing your project!
i had an idea to use 45 size on all but than i i was concerned about the weight, size , sickout of x axis with possible problems of driving z axis, so i went and bought 25 size roller guides and 25 size ground ball screws. please check episode 2 and 2.2.
So basically any way to come to um is air bearings. I am thinking to use granite plates to make mini grinder love you project.
to be with in 1 micron you dont need air bearings. just good rails like i got now for the upgrade. rexroth 45mm. or smaller. they are under a micron or around there. IMHO air bearings are a bit too tricky and not necessary.
I would recommend a more robust motion controller if you’ll be going through all the hassle of upgrading. I personally went through a few and so far I’m very happy with Centroid.
centroid is not that much different from this what i got. if i wont be happy enough with mine one i lan to give this one a try en.cs-lab.eu/product/csmioip-a-ethernet-motion-controller-10v-6-axis-with-connectors/?fbclid=IwAR1tHbZhrp2sDIs57u_vXVgflIgeoGsaJn2Crusji4_hU1jiUHnajYff6yY
A popular upgrade for Chinese rails is to replace the balls with fresh ceramic high tolerance balls. I would be interested to see how much that would improve your rails accuracy? Perhaps for the X axis?
i did replaced ball bearings in the screws and rails with ceramic ones. it did improve quality a bit but it wasn't anything spectacular. but it did removed backlash. that's why i decided its time to do the upgrade, before this quick fix will wear out.
Hi.nice stuff you have there.good luck with upgrade.I have to tell you that is overkill 45 size for your CNC.this guide type goes in machine that have over 15kw power and over 4000kg.Also you should consider 750w servo.But i am sure that you will make good job.
I agree it's overkill, but im using it to have my rails as rigid as possible and precise. 45 size was just a side effect of this what was available. I think 30 would be perfect.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki I hope the servos will compensate the extra preload and weight. Kinda worried for you about that and the force that the rails will apply to the granite gantry when you screw and so flatten it.
Think you will have issues getting good accelerations and rapids with those large rails and small motors. Just the extra resistance of the rails may cause issues and any binding if not perfectly aligned will easily bind the machine.
im looking for 3000mm/min travel speed. i don't need any more than that. I'm sure those servos will keep up. currently i have nema 23 from my old 6040 chinese cnc and they can move 60kg gantry no problem.
I'm aware or binding problems if something is not aligned, I will pay extra attention to that.
Piotr Fox Wysocki ok I understand I thought maybe faster rapids would be wanted. For 3d profiling and high rpm spindle cutting speeds can approach 3000mm/min. Also I saw you video on belt conveyer that was very cool idea and I want to incorporate something similar.
@@ianagos4276 if i will get better rapids than what i have it will be a bonus :) but I'm mostly focusing on the finish quality than speed. sometimes its good to have some time to react when you make a mistake and you have to hit emergency button :) This conveyor belt is great. i just switch full bins of chips with empty ones. no more swiping, wiping, and no more mess around the machine.
I think you should make a gofundme to buy all new parts for your new machine, in order to donate your old machine to a university or makerspace of your choosing
Those roller bearings are EXPENSIVE! Very good argument for their use though.
If this is a "high end" state-of-the-art machine, then why the clunky motion controller and why not the AXBB-E (UCCNC) or XHC mach3 controller?
Lots of good info. I'm glad I just started on my CNC project and I have not bought any components yet!
How lucky for me to come across your video...After looking at the Chinese CNC routers, like the 6090s, I realized they are junk! Unreal that people are buying that trash. I see people who have then do this upgrade and that upgrade and end up with something not a tall like what they got from China.
As a computer software/hardware engineer with some machine tool experience, I'm glad I didn't get suckered into a Chinese CNC; thanks to TH-cam'rs.
Now I will start from scratch including having parts water-jet cut, etc., and after your video, I'm back to the drawing board to rethink my design...
Now you got me going out to find real small roller bearing linear guides; cannot use those monsters you have! Looks like ball bearing will suffice.
About the servos though, steppers can hold position; locking the axis while another moves, do the servos lock (have not read up on servos)? You don't say anything about actual operation compares to servos.
I don't see the point of the light test of the rails, they will be bolted to a precision ground surface anyway. The big rails are bowed; perhaps made that way since you will be bolting them down (presumed by the mfgr to a cast iron base and NOT granite), but don't see any mounting holes in them.
Finally, we cannot see what it is you are upgrading other than a black box with a window!
Thanks!
servos can hold the position just like steppers, i will talk more bout servos later on.
light test on the rail was to check if they are straight. my granite gantry is 50mm thick, and if rails are bent too much they will bend my granite gantry or break. so i have to straighten them up.
they have mounting holes but they are covered by metal cover strip.
sorry for not showing the machine, i kinda assumed that viewers are familiar with it. thanks for pointing it out.
if i buy normal ball rails, could i not just put the rail onto a grinding machine and grind the bottom surface parallel to the carriage?
yes, this is what i have been doing on those cheap Chinese rails. but i have been doing it by hand. but if you do this on a surface grinder, it should be perfect. one thing which is tricky would be the quality of the ball groves.
Hello Mr. Fox. I have watched your granite build videos many times, and find your design very interesting. I haven't seen that you have told us the working envelope of your gantry machine (X,Y,Z), and would ask if you could give us those numbers?
I have inherited a very large granite slab, of 1500x1020x170 mm. It used to be the table of a very precise 4 spindle drilling machine for circuit boards. The last 20 years, it has been a garden table in my fathers garden. I am planning to have this slab cut into suitable pieces for a gantry cnc machine. It will need some lapping to bring it back to spec of course. My first design sketches, i have a table of 1020 in X direction (gantry width) and 600 in the Y-direction. However, I see that only half of the Y-axis will be usable.
Thanks for taking the time to document your journey to build the granite CNC.
my machine is 900mm x 600mm. and working area is 700mm x 380mm. if you want to have whole area usable you will have to extend the side walls beyond the machine to accommodate thickness of the gantry with the spindle. personally i don't use that much space because vises are not that long. but who knows you might be doing different things so you might want something larger.
Is that a crack in your granite behind the closed loop stepper in your demo? Hoping it's not.
Awesome video as always, I was starting to save for my build based on yours but managed to buy a Schaublin 13, with some of its other heads and work holding so I am broke for a while. At least when it's set up I'll be able to make some of the parts for my build now. And hopefully I'll be able to use your new developments to make it better too.
Keep up the good work and thanks!
Actuality it is broken straight edge behind those mottors. I got one sent and it got broken in shipping. But i got replacement. Broken one is used now for sanding.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki good my heart sank when I saw that, I also figured you would have said something but I thought I'd check anyway.
- Do you suffer from insanity ?
- No, I'm enjoying it!
That was is an awesome upgrade !
Have you considered LinuxCnc with linear encoders to correct the backlash of your actual or futur ballscrew ? A new C5 could be cheaper and give as precise of a motion as a C3, definitely more work though.
Also, what's the brand of your closed loop steppers ? Looks like the one from StepperOnline.
;) i haven't made any upgrade yet;) just explained few components and why. I definitely set my mind on to c3 ballscrews. For the lenghts i need variation would be 13 and 18 microns. Im more than happy with this number. For now at least. I can't imagine I would ever need to be this precise. But one thing i sure i want surface finish to be as close to perfection as it is possible.
Closed loop stepper on the video is from stepper online. They are cheap and they send stuff really quick.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Yeah so you can get some feedback right x)
I found another comment that add details to what I'm saying about the ballscrew. Even better, here is an example underload (~9min): th-cam.com/video/dRJMk4hkUvY/w-d-xo.html
I don't remember if they are C7 or C5, but they are mounted on a regular Chinese bearing block without angular contact ball bearings. You can see it's pretty precise, I'm just concerned about the vibrations that occur when that much backlash is compensated, maybe a drawback for the great surface finish you need.
Thanks for the note about StepperOnline ! They are really cheap so I was curious to have some feedback, at least about the motor. I can use a higher quality open loop driver and closed the loop in LinuxCnc if the driver is not good enough.
I misspelled. They are actually double nut rolled ball screw (so not too bad) with bk15 bearings blocks modified to fit a pair of cheap angular contact ball bearings. Still as he has demonstrated the linear encoders greatly improve the accuracy of the machine, even tacking out the backlash of cheap couplers.
I love the Polgardi Desgin stuff. I actually know thy guy personally who makes them. These are epic. I also love the wireless handwheel, what they selling. Not cheap, but gamechanger. I hope you will share the experience about the controller. Will you use it with the own software, or just mach3 it?
i will try to start simple. if it will work under mach 3 no need to change it. it it wont. than I will change to something else :)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki As I know it works fine with that. If you ran any trouble, I can give you contact to the guy who makes the firmware, so you can work things out fast :)
@@Sastas cool! thank you, much appreciated :)
Hey Piotr, awesome upgrade, I wanted to ask you is DeWalt PV45-PRO still holding good? I am building CNC with solid granite and I am now in the process of drilling and putting anchors in. Thanks.
I have the UC300ETH and it's great... Very boring - it just does everything well and gets out of the way. I do use UCCNC control SW (not Mach3/4) which supports the UC300ETH well...
i think it is mach better to invest in linear scale instead of prison ground ball screw . think about it . the controller will fix any irregularity in the screw and most of ether irregularity in the mechanical system of the CNC do to the feedback from the prison scale .
and yeah those are big A** linear rails :) . can't wait to see the next vid
with c3 ground ball screws i will have 10-20 microns positioning error. over the whole distance, so at the smaller distances it will be less. anyway, at the moment im perfectly happy with this number. and if i will need to improve it i can always map the ball screw or get linear scales.
im trying to keep it simple at the moment.
aha ok .
Cześć Piotr,
Zastanawiam się czemu chcesz używać sygnału step dir? Przy takim updacie warto zastanowić się nad pełną pętlą zamkniętą, index homing, s curve profile, np. csmio ip a + Sim cnc
a kto powiedzial ze sie nie zastanawialem :D jak mi ten kontroler nie pociagnie to mam w planach zmienic na csmio :) tlatego na wideo powiedzialem ze nie jestem pewien czy zostawie ten kontroler co mam :D
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Obecnie posiadam csmio ip a (stara wersja kontrolera + mach 3 bez s curve). Maszyna jest mega dokładna i stabilna w działaniu
This size of rails are used in huge and very expensive Mazak, Hermle and DMG machine centers, even if they are going to improve slightly the machine, they are not a balance choice by any means. Your machine will look like those cars with the huge aftermarket rear wing.
Does it? th-cam.com/video/W_V8qp8zfCM/w-d-xo.html
you are going to need a bigger spindle for those rails 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 .
Thing must be expensive af now worth evry penny
WOW!!! There you have some really nice stuff for your upgrade! And you will find a way to get the bow out of the rail...But why dont you use Eding CNC? It´s Ethernet based and everything runs on 24V Go have a look at their controllers
I will. Thanks
Piotr Fox Wysocki if you have any questions about Eding CNC, feel free to ask me...I will see if I can help you...✌️
@@kd_design if this one fails i hav in mind this one en.cs-lab.eu/product/csmioip-a-ethernet-motion-controller-10v-6-axis-with-connectors/?fbclid=IwAR1tHbZhrp2sDIs57u_vXVgflIgeoGsaJn2Crusji4_hU1jiUHnajYff6yY
if this one fails than i will go and try other ones :D
You should try air bearings. Real precision CNC gantry uses air bearings, accuracies are 1 micron and below.
Air bearings are high maintenance. And you can damage them really quick. I need machine to work and not to constantly worry about and service it.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki interesting I will take note of that.
Jestem w szoku, zdradzisz mi, czy ten sprzęt zarobił na swoje ulepszenia, czy dokładasz do swojego hobby cały czas ? Mam onreda na tych serwach, jak masz śruby 5-taki to bez przełożenia będzie to super chodzić na szybkim pozwie 15 000mm/min
To jusz od 1.5 roku przestalo byc hobby, ta maszyna to zarobila juz na siebie, i in na nowa DMG MORI albo jakas inna 5axis maszyne :)
ten upgrade wyjdzie mnie duzo mniej niz kupowanie nowej, a jakosc po tym upgradzie powinna byc podobna. a maszyna duzo mniejsza i na 240v.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Moje gratulacje, sam mam większy sprzęt i firmę ( po etacie próbuję to rozwinąć ) i niestety mi aż tak super nie idzie ;-( więc ciągnę etat plus własna firma. A może masz jakieś zlecenia które chętnie byś przerzucił gdzieś indziej ?
i like to see you do the same with a Mahr Federal 4335000 1002 indicator xD
You should be able to straighten the rail with a press so you frame does not suffer so much
You are crazy but I love you for it. What did you do with your hand?
Looks wose than it is. I just got sunburned ;)
Finaly u put servos on cnc , long time ...
Try masso controller it’s great
👍👍👍
"I'm insane? No, I'm little bit crazy" :-)))))))) Ok, rails are absolutely the same... Yeah... Sure... :-)))))))))
Hahaha 😁
@ 2.25 - w kazdym szalenstwie jest metoda
dzieki za pocieszenie :D
Genius!
@Piotr Fox Wysocki You are right, these rails might bend your granite base. But this big pars are assuming you are going to bolt them on to something very strong and rigid!
And it's somewhat funny, you are commenting about others saying linear rails that glide easy and free are best, and commenting on that the best and most precise ones are the ones that don't glide so easy.....
But then later in the video you go on about that the precision rails are bad because they are bowed..... But think of it, they are preloaded in all other ways. Isn't it obvious that they are preloaded this way too? I mean look at how consistent the bow is between the parts. So you make the same mistake as the ones saying the rails that glide easy are the best..... There's nothing wrong with the bow, it's designed inn, as preload!
In your case this might be a problem yes. But these parts are intended to be bolted on to something rigid enough to make the end result perfectly straight and stiff.
One solution you might consider is puting on an opposing part on the other side of the granite block, to compensate for the bending forces introduced by the rail. And the absolutely best solution then would be to mount two rails symetrically on the granite blocks. Then they will perfectly cancel out the bow from each other! Alt least in your Z and Y axis this would be relatively easy. And for X you could bolt on an opposing steel rail of some sort, and measure the bow as you go, and then compensate by tightening the opposing bow from the underside.
So, as you can see there is no free lunch. Going up in size on the rails have it's own issues that will have to be dealt with. But when you have done it ti will be waaaay more rigid and precise, so it will be worth it!
Linear rails are like wet noodles until mounted, so your measurements are fairly meaningless. When evenly bolted to a comparatively stiff surface then they will conform to that surface. The greater precision the bearing block, the flatter that surface needs to be. Read the manufacturer's technical documentation for guidance there, and also bolt torque and recommended mounting procedure. It is common to have a flat shoulder to push the rail against to ensure that it is straight in a second axis, at least for one rail. The second parallel rail is sometimes left unconstrained in that second axis and pulled straight by the connecting saddle.
can i lpease have your old stuff :)
Rób nową maszynkę. Wrzeciono z 10kW do takich prowadnic. Sam mam 45mm NSK w osi Y i są groźne :-) Oś X to 30mm THK. Z pozostaje do zmiany bo jest na chińskich 20mm (30mm THK już czekają na montaż). Maszynka waży 1.5t i nie boi się rąbać głowicą 50mm w stali :)
Aaa i te serwa 400W mogą być za słabe...
Nie mam miejsca na nowa. Ale tak sie wacham bo to ma sens zobic nowa ale z drugiej strony to wiecej toboty i kasy. No a potem zostane z rozbebeszana maszyna. Serwa powinny dac rade. Tez nie zalezy mi na kosmicznych predkosciach tylko na jakosci wykonczenia.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki buduj nowa, ta zawsze mozesz sprzedac. Kupca znajdziesz bez problemu. Kiedy kolejny update?
@@1050cnc w obecnej chwili to nawet srub nie kupie. mamy tu totalny lockdown. jak tak dalej pojdzie to nie wiem czy bede mial za co te sruby kupic. zobaczymy jak to bedzie..
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Mialem nadzieje ze w NZ lepiej i projekty ida do przodu. W Stanach to samo, co najwyzej modele w CAD mozna dopracowac. :/
Wysoka półka komponentów
27:10 WOOOOOOOOO THATS SEXY!
Dont even want to know what bosch charges for them!
the more i watch ur channel the more im scared for my wallet
love this stuff
well. :) just in case, hide wallet far away from the computer while you watching :) good thing is that the machine is working for its own upgrades.
Chinese rails FTW!
i guess you get what you pay for :)
You should chossen clear path servo...way better performance....fyi you don't measure the the Precision of a rail on the back side ...must measure on rail face which ground too.
Clearpath is a closed loop stepper. He should get dmm dyn4 750w ac servos
@@paulnovak833 clear path makes dedicated servo...im not talking about steppers ....sc and mc motors
www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-mc/
www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/clearpath-sc/
Quite the overkill on the linear guides. Those are guides for real VMCs. But hey, if you want to spend the money why not.
actually i spent less than for regular Chinese rails.
Not just a vmc, those rails would be found on quite a large vmc. Even a haas vf6 has 45mm ball linear rails, not even rollers.
@@ReiniGrauer thanks for the info. i was wondering what kind of a machine is using those.
Real(branded) ground c3 ballscrew is very expensive
even the more expensive rexroth isn't straight enough. I'm disappointed
they are straight and with the same height once bolted. its just the bow. normally its not a problem, because you bolt it down to flat surface. I had idea to use them on the gantry, but now i changed my mind. but i straightened them anyway.
C'est vraiment pas la même qualité, entre 0.03 de déformation sur la 1ère et 0.01 sur la 2ème, rien à voir ;-)
Hi buddy, prepare the text of the release in advance, please. it’s impossible to listen to you mumble and go astray.
Personally I would build a whole new machine.
Go ahead. Please post the videos.
@@scottwillis5434 great response
Piotr, send me an email to clivemilne@gmail.com and I'll show you where to access accurate (C0/1 & 2) NSK ball screws... they'll be under 500 US dollars per screw. They are "salvaged" in the sense that they were an OEM item but no longer required and on-sold.. Still in the original packaging, and you will need to do some machining to get them to fit your machine... But, you know... screws like this don't come up that often at 20% of the retail price. Just to be clear... I personally am not selling anything...Just pointing you in the right direction.
C0 is quite incredible. however tempting it sounds, i wouldn't trust anyone where i live to machine the ends for them precisely enough.