7.62x39 AR15's: PSA KS47 vs CMMG MK47

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
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    We decided to compare the PSA KS47 to the CMMG MK47 sometimes known as the Mutant or Resolute. The two are quite similar but there's also different in at least one big way. We show the MK47 CMMG and the KS 47 from Palmetto State Armory side by side and break it down.
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    #AR15 #7.62x39 #AKM

ความคิดเห็น • 604

  • @sayNotoBrooklyn83
    @sayNotoBrooklyn83 3 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    7.62x39 is arguably the best round for city / semi CQB environments. We invented 300 blackout due to requests from special forces for a more effective round. Go figure 300 blk out has almost identical ballistics to good old 7.62x39

    • @weasle2904
      @weasle2904 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      7.62x39 is given too much credit. It's likeable qualities are directly from being heavy and slow. 300BLK is superior for those applications. Not to mention even out of a MK18 5.56 still fragments within CQB ranges and does similar flesh damage to 7.62x39.

    • @TheGreekSparten
      @TheGreekSparten 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@weasle2904 cope

    • @Lifechanging99999
      @Lifechanging99999 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@weasle2904 yeah, the OP doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    • @jefflutz5240
      @jefflutz5240 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@Lifechanging99999 way to not tag the OP and wait almost a year to grow a pair, dork.

    • @strongestgamer2501
      @strongestgamer2501 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@weasle2904 MK18 users like holding shafts on other men

  • @Mrgunsngear
    @Mrgunsngear 4 ปีที่แล้ว +174

    Have both; both of mine work well

    • @jakesoros2376
      @jakesoros2376 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      For some reason, it says you commented a month ago on this video, even though the video only came out about 5 minutes ago. 🤔

    • @michaelurban2152
      @michaelurban2152 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Lol yeah it does f#cking TH-cam

    • @leadsled213
      @leadsled213 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Confirm 1 month ago..

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@leadsled213 If he was a patreon member and it was released to them a month ago. Then he could have left this comment a month ago.

    • @mbh8621
      @mbh8621 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@Matteo_ you're smart

  • @JW02828
    @JW02828 4 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    The PSA KS47 barrel material is 4150 Nitride vs MK47 is a 4140 SBN. Both barrel's have the same profile which is medium weight, but the PSA barrel is made out of stronger material.

  • @loneczgunner6562
    @loneczgunner6562 4 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    I have a 10 in version of the KS47 and have run atleast 3000 through it almost all suppressed. No failures yet.

    • @TCpaintball
      @TCpaintball 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      What kind of suppressor & threaded muzzle you running ?

    • @palumbo78
      @palumbo78 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Now that even more time has passed, have you had any issues with the 10.5 ks47 suppressed? I’m wanting to take my 10.5 out hog hunting and I have a SilencerCo omega 300 and a yankee hill resonator 2 30 cal cans. Not sure which to use? Also, are you running direct thread or quick detach?

    • @loneczgunner6562
      @loneczgunner6562 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @palumbo78 dead air keymo quick detach. Very reliable. It has broke extractors. I keep two spares in the grip. Adjustable gas block is a must.

  • @Matteo_
    @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +130

    I've had both. The Mutant was a jam-o-matic. Ditched it quickly. The KS47 was been great. No issues with any of the mags I have. The only downside on the KS47 is that it uses a 7.62x39 AR bolt with a .125" bolt face depth. The extractors have issues and tend to wear out. I personally wish PSA would release a Gen 3 KS47 and use the same bolts as the 6.5 Grendel. The .136" bolt face depth doesn't have those extractor issues.

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @Carlos Danger Good. As I said no issues.

    • @huntermoss9403
      @huntermoss9403 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Bro it needs a break-in period, ive got a used one versus a brand new one and the new one has jam issues but the used doesnt.

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@huntermoss9403 If you are talking about the KS? Mine was good out of the box. No break-in needed

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @Steven Skaggs The Mutant got me on the path to getting an AK. I now own a couple. The KS47 is still a fun little gun. Although I would like it if PSA would do a type II chamber and bolt as the Grendel does. In the meanwhile, I plan to re-barrel KS with a shorter chamber and use a modified 6.5 Grendel bolt.

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @Matt Scott Well apparently you can't tell much. And considering I'm not the only one who has had issues with the Mutant I'd say you can't tell a damn thing. Yes, my PSA has been a better experience. But I did mention that the extractor has an issue. Only one here lying is you with your so-called foresight into my experience. 🦄

  • @charisperissos1320
    @charisperissos1320 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    My first build was a KS47. PSA used to sell stripped uppers and lowers for the KS47, now all I see they have is the upper. It was a fun build.

  • @rueridge7597
    @rueridge7597 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    PSA really upped their game last few years. Good on em. 👍
    CMMG always top notch and innovative

  • @Scott-qq9jd
    @Scott-qq9jd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    Resolute is CMMG's name for its full line of carbine-length rifles. Banshee is the name for their pistols and SBRs, Resolute is carbines, and Endeavor is their full-length rifles.

    • @Sim_ulation7
      @Sim_ulation7 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Scott slack I'm getting the banshee braced pistol 300 in slate it's just on a back order 20 week wait so I figured I would get everything as far as mags and any accessories bought so that it assembly time when it shows up this would be my first weapon to take ak mags so that why I asked for suggestions on mags I got a vortex strikefire2 for it and I want to get a small hand stop and some backup sights and a upgrade white line velcro strap to make the best sba3 brace I seen what totally rad did to his on his TH-cam video and it looked like it worked good

    • @jeremycru4946
      @jeremycru4946 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Sim_ulation7 I just put mine in your color on Armslist. Could skip the wait and save a few 🤷🏼

    • @Sim_ulation7
      @Sim_ulation7 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jeremycru4946 how much is it I ordered a Banshee 300 in slate

    • @Sim_ulation7
      @Sim_ulation7 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      If it's the same thing I'll order it as soon as I leave the doctor's office my mom will be home with the credit card. Cancel the order on a cmmg

    • @Sim_ulation7
      @Sim_ulation7 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey I just seen it can you hold till 6pm when mom comes home with credit card I'll take it that's exactly what I wanted

  • @jasonthomas5609
    @jasonthomas5609 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I have the PSA Gen1 KS47 suppressed for 3K+ rounds & Fostech echo Gen1, I milled the KS47 carrier to work w/Echo Gen1 and milled out a slot on the bottom of the echo to fit the mag release spring to allow the trigger group to fit properly. It runs like a dream and is very accurate at 100 yards 1-1.5MOA with military classic with red dot, maybe better if higher optics. I did have one chip/crack of the bolt lug, but still runs like a champ with no issues.

  • @Chrisaphix
    @Chrisaphix 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I broke the extractor to my bcg on my KS-47. The life time unlimited warranty covered it and they sent me a whole new BCG. Real easy guys to work with btw. It happened after running through over 2000 rounds with the majority being trash rounds and steel case.

    • @HatsuneM1ku01
      @HatsuneM1ku01 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That shouldn’t happen though. That’s a small amount of around count to break something . I can shoot that in 2 range trips. Tactical courses like thunder ranch you’ll shoot that in 1 day

    • @ratroute8238
      @ratroute8238 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@HatsuneM1ku01 Toolcraft has sorted out the extractor issue with an enhanced version that now comes standard on all PSA KS47 gen 2 rifles.
      The bolt face doesn't seem to be as common a problem as the extractor was.

  • @michaelblacktree
    @michaelblacktree 4 ปีที่แล้ว +66

    Tim: "I'm gonna see if I can break it"
    Palmetto State Armory: 😧😧

    • @ABrit-bt6ce
      @ABrit-bt6ce 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Tim: im gonna leave it in a room by itself and see if it explodes.
      The inner marine laughes and there is a puff of purple smoke :)

    • @spacemarin04
      @spacemarin04 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Shit PSAs show up broken half the time lol. No need to try to break it.

    • @justinlance4174
      @justinlance4174 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@spacemarin04 not really. Psa is probably the best USA black rifle manufacturer right now

    • @kaisercollins3097
      @kaisercollins3097 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@justinlance4174 Please don't lie

    • @TridentCustomBaits
      @TridentCustomBaits 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@justinlance4174 Insane, quit with the crazy talk.

  • @austinschmidt5177
    @austinschmidt5177 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    MAC. I own both as well. An earlier gen 16" CMMG Mk-47 and a 2nd gen 10.5" PSA Ks-47. I noticed the Ks-47 was a lot snappier, but I figured it was because it was so much lighter from the shorter barrel and AR-15 sized BCG. I've noticed the same as you on the PSA, whenever I insert a mag the mag release paddle never returns back to the trigger guard. Think I might take off a couple thousandths on the mag release where it meets the locking lug on the mag. I also added a Devil Dog Concepts side charging handle and it made a world of difference since you have to charge it on every reload and the heavier AR-10 buffer spring sucks with a mil-spec charging handle. Also had to dremel part of the charging handle mount where it meets the receiver, but it's worth it and highly recommended on the PSA. But so far it's been reliable. Only time will tell if it's as reliable as my Mutant with about 3500ish rounds through it and 2 FTE's. Good video as usual 👍🏼

    • @pinger5563
      @pinger5563 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Don't modify the mag release, it will come out of it, I think it's the spring they use is really tight spring and it will break-in with use, I don't have that issue anymore and mine wasn't that bad at first but would still do it. I also had to red loc-tight in the front steel magazine pin since it walked out on me but hasn't yet again after loc-tight it in.

    • @austinschmidt5177
      @austinschmidt5177 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I won't then. I mainly have pmags and and some of my older more worn out ones seem to make the mag release go back a little further than the new ones. And I'll go ahead and loc-tight that. Think I should do that to the set screws on the gas block as well? Being it's gonna be used for home defense once I get a couple more rounds through it

    • @looooooooot432
      @looooooooot432 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've had the same experience with my KS-47 and the DDC Hard Charger has made a world of difference. Just out of curiosity what mags do you use?

    • @austinschmidt5177
      @austinschmidt5177 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I mainly use magpul pmags. I have a couple Croatian steel mags with the bolt hold open follower in them. But that feature doesn't work in my ks47, in fact it got stuck in that gun so I don't even use them. No cool collectable mags yet lol

    • @corvoattano4777
      @corvoattano4777 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Man do. You have Instagram?? I really wanna see your rifle.

  • @ibeemeeintp3033
    @ibeemeeintp3033 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Got my ks47 gen 2 for $600 before the panic buying began. Nice to see the value went up. Lol

  • @dsclaiborne31
    @dsclaiborne31 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have the ks47. I put a larue mbt2s trigger in it. It ignited everything I had except for Chinese steel core. I ordered a red x firing pin which was a smidge longer than the psa one. I also put in my spikes tactical t2 buffer with the psa spring and it now fires even the steel core hard primer Chinese ammo. I love it.

    • @frankcastle4435
      @frankcastle4435 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey Buddy, I just bought a PSA KS-47 Gen 2 and I am having quite a few primer strikes FTF with various ammo? Do you think one of those Red X firing pins would help? Or should I go ahead send it back

  • @McNastehP
    @McNastehP 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    That looked like a Croatian steel which doesn’t even work in a lot of import AKs

    • @constitutionalrepublican1611
      @constitutionalrepublican1611 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      my croatian mags work in my century, my romy and my draco..... but i do prefer tapco mags myself.

  • @project86xero
    @project86xero 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I've seen a few MK47s and two KS47s at my local range. I've shot both and they seem nice. Although in talking with the owners they are both a bit picky.
    Personally I'll stick with my Galil Ace. Four years and thousands of rounds in and it still hasn't given me a single issue.

    • @soul2267
      @soul2267 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      cant go wrong with a gaill ! i have a galil ace 308 pistol

    • @petedivine
      @petedivine 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was looking at the Galil. I have an Arsenal AK. I find my AK to be too heavy for running and gunning and was looking for a lighter system to run 7.62x39. The Galil is pretty heavy too. I'm thinking about the KS47. It's about $800 and that's more then 1/2 what a Galil goes for.

  • @TacticalReview
    @TacticalReview 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    I’m sure you’ve found in your research, but the KS-47 bolt typically fails at the extractor. Obviously, it’s covered by warranty, but Young’s Manufacturing extractors seem to last a bit better, and can be had for fairly cheap. Young’s also makes a rather robust x39 bolt that can be used, after rounding 2 of the lugs to match the profile of the PSA original.

  • @UncleDanBand64
    @UncleDanBand64 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Tim,
    I build mostly 7.62x39. My 7.5" has thousands of rounds. With and without the can. So far I have not broken a bolt nor have my friends that are using uppers that I built. It is the best round for hogs, for the money. That being said I always carry a spare bolt in my pistol grip and I advise them to do the same👍🇺🇸

    • @BB-nn9en
      @BB-nn9en 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      What are your secrets for building a commie round freedom gun? I'm looking to build the same but am hearing all sorts of different advice along with being told to expect problems.
      Thanks!

    • @UncleDanBand64
      @UncleDanBand64 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@BB-nn9en There are 2 keys. #1 use Cproducts mags! #2 Enhanced firing pins. After that find the right spring and buffer weight to make her eject about 5:00 after that if you thriw a can on it she should eject about 2:00. My preferred setup is a 7.5" barrel throwing steel case Russian ammo at 2,000ish FPS. The heart is a BCA barrel and bolt. Standard Carbine spring, H2 buffer, RedX enhanced firing pin and 20 round Cproducts mags👍🇺🇸

    • @loquat44-40
      @loquat44-40 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Spare bolt is what I am thinking too. But for now, for serious work it will be 300 black out because I am more positive about the bolt or extractor not failing. I am sitting on some 7.62x39 and if I run out of 300 blackout than I would go 7.62x39. for training I can use 7.62x39 and for combat I can use the PSA ACC 110 gr Vmax or 5.56 77 grain OTM loads through the assorted uppers that I have. I still have my $100 SKS that will always work 100% plus all of the time. But the X39 ammo is all russian cheapo ammo and inferior to the 300 blackout or 5.56 for causing trauma on human beings an goblins.

  • @justincarwile1663
    @justincarwile1663 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I like the platforms and all they have done to make the x39 reliable and usable in an ARish platform. That being said, if I was going to take the extra heft of the gun and ammo that the beefy CMMG offering entails, I may as well carry an AR10.

    • @jakass
      @jakass 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's because it is an AR-10, are you just dense?
      It is to an AR-10 what the ks47 is to the AR-15. It doesn't much thought to realize that

    • @Gunner-ll1zd
      @Gunner-ll1zd 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Agreed. That's why I just bought at ar10.

    • @gto3635
      @gto3635 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @jakass Your name is fitting!

  • @osantiago774
    @osantiago774 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Thanks for this review. I also had the same issue with some PMAG Mags that I also had to push the lever when I load a mag. The best mags have been the Bulgarian polymer, Korean KCI and Magpul mags that work fine. .

  • @AString95
    @AString95 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I bought the CMMG Mk47 Pistol in October. It’s a great gun, about 3500 rounds thru the gun. Had some initial feeding issues with it, but CMMG Fixed it. Now 2000 rounds malfunction free. PSA looks like a real nice gun and I recommend that one to my friends as most of them won’t spend $1500 on a gun.

    • @r4ym1n13
      @r4ym1n13 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have the same mk47 banshee pistol version. I had too many fail to extract issues so i sent it to cmmg for service work. They installed an o ring on the extractor to solve this. I just got it back and have not shot it yet. I hope this solves the issue.

    • @AString95
      @AString95 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      R4ym1n the exact same thing happened to mine. Solved the issue, you should be good.

    • @r4ym1n13
      @r4ym1n13 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AString95 thanks, i hope so

  • @m92quad55
    @m92quad55 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Really excited about this long term test, been hoping someone would do a torture test to answer the KS47 bolt face situation. Mine is awesome so far but still pretty low round count.

  • @traianciossu
    @traianciossu 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    On the PSA site they have a list with known mags that are guaranteed to work with the KS-47. I only put pmags in it, tried bulgarian ones and croatian, had failures from the second round...so pmags it is. The only issue I had was the rail was coming off of the barrel nut, tried to tighten the screws, walked off after 20 rounds, replaced the screws with new ones, same thing. Had to send it back and they replaced the handguard, the new one seems to hold.

  • @Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill
    @Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I noticed on the P-mag and the KS-47, after your 1st shot, the mag release moved back to where it was supposed to be.

    • @craigmyers5569
      @craigmyers5569 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good eye, I thought it did so as well.

  • @windstormscr8948
    @windstormscr8948 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I’ve been running a regular AR mag 7.62x39, and the most likely failures in the BCG is the extractor. Avoid nitrided Extractors and you shouldn’t have any issues at all. My nitrided extractors typically had about an 800-1200 rd lifespan, while the NiB extractors I picked up are at 3000+ without any sign of giving out.

  • @fomocore
    @fomocore 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    You can put any standard AR-15 extended charging handle on the PSA

    • @salcidojosiah
      @salcidojosiah 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      You can't run the side charging handle. I can't think of The name of it. The upper is fatter. I had to modify a handgaurd to get it on.

    • @InvidiousIgnoramus
      @InvidiousIgnoramus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@salcidojosiah Gibbz Arms makes a side charger specifically for the KS-47.

    • @dsclaiborne31
      @dsclaiborne31 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Indeed I have a raptor charging handle in mine.

    • @dsclaiborne31
      @dsclaiborne31 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@InvidiousIgnoramus
      Wtf would want with a side charging handle on an ar? It's not an ak or sks.

    • @InvidiousIgnoramus
      @InvidiousIgnoramus 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dsclaiborne31 wtf would I want a rear charging handle?

  • @meadball1
    @meadball1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I got my KS-47 for about 650$. I bought the lower and the assembled upper separately straight from PSA. Of course this was also before the panic buying drove the prices up too...I got the 10.5 inch barrel and put a Strike industries cookie cutter brake on it. It's a fun gun! Great video!

    • @TheseRightHereBitch
      @TheseRightHereBitch 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why not buy it all together? 👀👀👀👀

    • @meadball1
      @meadball1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@TheseRightHereBitch A couple reasons. The 1st reason I bought the upper and lower separately was because they didn't have the upper I wanted in stock at the time. The second reason was an odd thing with PSA's pricing. If you bought a KS-47 fully assembled with the 10.5 inch upper, it costed 750$. If you bought the lower and upper separately, it costed all together 650$. Still had all the hardware for a functional gun such as BCG and charging handle but for 100$ less! So it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see that you get the same thing for a less money! If you can attach an upper to a lower, you're set!

    • @FocusedHands
      @FocusedHands 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@meadball1 Dang wish I knew this before I bought mine!

  • @A8vscRrabbit
    @A8vscRrabbit 4 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    Really looking forward to this long term psa test. Psa rifles have been 100% reliable ranch rifles for me the last 3yrs. of regular and above average abuse. From snow to 116°. Being left in the rain for days as i repair our cattle fences. Buried in dust from miles in the bed of a truck on dirt roads. I used them as beaters as to not subject my nicer rifles....to work. I have now come to love them the most....
    - a rancher

    • @airborneexplorer
      @airborneexplorer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I had one before the boating accident. It ran flawlessly for many thousands of rounds. Some magazines will not seat properly. The rock river ones are the best and magpul pmags are perfect

    • @bloodking73
      @bloodking73 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I had one that didnt even last 1000 rounds because the lugs in the barrel and extrator broke, also unreliable, recoil felt much worse than 308 and even with an h3 buffer still has more recoil than ak, dont bother with it, cant say for cmmg

    • @Milspecpoptart
      @Milspecpoptart 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The buffer is for timing of the cyclic rate. If you want to improve recoil, get a muzzle brake(like on the mk47) and an adjustable gas block. Most rifles are overgassed from the start so basement larpers can feed their rifles cheap low power ammo and still have the bolt cycle. That can be tuned to run your preferred ammo with less felt recoil.

    • @trilliamogdlocog4986
      @trilliamogdlocog4986 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      My PSA rifles haven't been 100%reliable 🤔😞

    • @boomerisadog3899
      @boomerisadog3899 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@trilliamogdlocog4986 Same here. I have multiple ar's and an ak with zero malfunctions. All have been very accurate, as well. The only problem I've ever had is that some mags fit a bit tight in the ak but none fit loose or wobble at all.

  • @MilsurpMikeChannel
    @MilsurpMikeChannel 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good explanation of the differences... I have kind of had a hankering for a 7.62x39 AR, just haven't pulled the trigger on getting one yet.

  • @conradmccall5820
    @conradmccall5820 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    PSA is clear on their websites that there are some magazines that will not work in this gun. Its been tested with a ton, and only a few that dont work. All the major mags work just fine it. Just thought I'd point that out cause psa knows it will not worth with certain mags, its not a faulty gun or anything

  • @TTiger86268
    @TTiger86268 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Very informative as always MAC. Enjoy all your videos, especially the last one with the watermelons and different barrels etc...with the 5.56

  • @honzabalak3462
    @honzabalak3462 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Honestly, I like the full length solid military style rails much more than any keymod/mlok. Yes, it's heavier and not so comfortable, but that doesn't matter much to me. The rail is readily available and it won't get lost under any circumstance.

    • @huntsman9212
      @huntsman9212 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      If I'm not mistaken that can be fixed/ changed (please correct me if I'm wrong).

    • @honzabalak3462
      @honzabalak3462 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@huntsman9212 You would need to either swap the handguard or to weld the rails to the current one, which is overly complicated but it would work.
      Both options are possible, but here I was talking more about preference - many people like keymode and mlok becouse it's lighter and slimmer without the rails. But to me a handguard with non-removable rails will always be the prefered choice.

    • @jakass
      @jakass 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good news, the mlok rails are non removable, they are build into the handguard much like the gulf war rails.
      If something is falling off, that's on the installer and not the product (assuming a build to spec product)

  • @mulekicker-ut5jl
    @mulekicker-ut5jl 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I had a ar in 7.62x39 and it worked fine with c products mags. I now have the ks47 and it is awesome. Bulgaria mags run real good in the ks47 but the Croatia mags do not work in it. I bought 2 and both had problems.

    • @Milspecpoptart
      @Milspecpoptart 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Croatian mags dont like most rifles. Out of spec construction.

    • @mulekicker-ut5jl
      @mulekicker-ut5jl 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Deezzz Nutzzz The Croatia mags are the only one s I’ve tried that hasn’t worked in the ks47. I gave them to a buddy with a reg ak

    • @bloodking73
      @bloodking73 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Croatian mags dont work in anything lol

    • @frankcastle4435
      @frankcastle4435 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      US Palm mags don’t work either

  • @jshudd
    @jshudd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Tim, I got my KS-47 early last year. I love it. Mine is the 8.5” pistol.
    I don’t have that same issue with my mag release. I’ve only used PMAGS tho. That’s weird yours does that

  • @mikebrown9997
    @mikebrown9997 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have an AR15 chambered in 7.62×39 and I love it.

  • @mrweeby1961
    @mrweeby1961 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Seems the CMMG is basically an AR10 maybe sized down a bit. Too bad nobody has developed a larger bolt and barrel extension to handle the larger ammo cases and retain the smaller size of the AR.

  • @AlphaChimpEnergy
    @AlphaChimpEnergy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    CMMG makes great shit for sure. PSA always listens makes constant improvements and always hits a working guy price point.

  • @Mygg_Jeager
    @Mygg_Jeager 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Everyone Everywhere: BDU is like the Costco of the gun world.
    MAC: BDU is like the Sams Club of the gun world.

  • @teamgo9980
    @teamgo9980 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    KS 47 rocks I don’t even use my mutant anymore it’s heavy and malfunctioned more then my kS/47 and I do not own any other PSA weapons except for this KS 47. I have over 10,000 rounds on each platform and I would pick the KS 47 Any day

    • @XxElementxX01
      @XxElementxX01 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Any issues with the 10k PSA?

    • @teamgo9980
      @teamgo9980 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@XxElementxX01 not yet I would normally have already cleaned it obviously but I’m running it until it decides to stop running on me I was doing a little test just for a $700 firearm I have use and abused it. I’ve never given it wolf Tulla brass every kind ind f ammo I can think of hell I’ve even ran it suppressed And it’s hearing safe. Mine is it The pistol brace 10 1/2 inch that they offer.

    • @taylorleteff2717
      @taylorleteff2717 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      No extractor fails in 10k rounds?!?!?

    • @pelondf77
      @pelondf77 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Have you swapped the upper receiver and see if they are compatible???

  • @mot0rhe4d40
    @mot0rhe4d40 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Acquired the KS-47 with the 10.5" barrel, been happy with the accuracy from steel case Tula that I have ran through her.
    No troubles as of yet.

  • @injuredoutdoorsman9011
    @injuredoutdoorsman9011 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I’d still like to see a comparison between the KS-47 and the AK-E. I’m wondering if there’s still a large accuracy difference even with the FN CHF barrel, or if it has more to do with the gas system

  • @joyroc885
    @joyroc885 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love the 7.62x39 round just not crazy about rock in mags. I'll be going the Bren MS route.

  • @dsclaiborne31
    @dsclaiborne31 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Tim the ks47 has a .308 spring with an H buffer.

    • @suneilkumar
      @suneilkumar 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Makes sense. AR15 size but heavier charge pull. Still shoots as soft as 223.

  • @stratochief99
    @stratochief99 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love my KS-47. Once I put the PA ACSS variable on and a radian raptor charging handle in it, its awesome.

  • @huntermoss9403
    @huntermoss9403 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I love my freakking MUTANT!

    • @Spencer900
      @Spencer900 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Literally my dream gun. Especially the Banshee version. But I live in cali. I was going to settle with just building a ks47 but they haven't had the stripped lower in stock for over a year

  • @jonathansmith7306
    @jonathansmith7306 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I appreciate the comparison between the two...I intended to buy a KS47 to suppress it (because my Mak-90 has no muzzle threads), but now seeing how much beefier the Mk47 is, I might consider that instead

  • @notoo7
    @notoo7 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Been very happy with PSA KS47 with Magpul. Getting used to the lack of hold open. I added an older large Gunfighter charging handle.

  • @rufturbo997
    @rufturbo997 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I've had a Windham Weapons SRC in 7.62x39 for about 5 years and have 2000+ plus rounds through it without any gun related issues. I just prefer the manual of arms of the AR, particularly the mag loading and unloading and last round bolt hold open.
    Initially had the occasional light primer strike but after installing a HiperFire trigger that never happened again.
    BTW, all but a few hundred rounds have been steel case.

  • @fancyultrafresh3264
    @fancyultrafresh3264 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Watching that drum wiggle in the Mutant like a dangly scrote really upset me.

    • @huntsman9212
      @huntsman9212 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Look on the bright side the mutant ran it like a champ

  • @hickboyjusthick698
    @hickboyjusthick698 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have a KS-47 and I run it with an SDN-6. Put about 500 rounds through it with no problems, so far.

  • @stevenbarnes6316
    @stevenbarnes6316 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    When that MAC intro music hits early in the morning

    • @k9gustoff
      @k9gustoff 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      When you think this is early in the morning...

    • @sorryociffer
      @sorryociffer 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Garand Thumb sets the bar for all to achieve.... I FFW through MAC intro...

  • @tcbkkb1
    @tcbkkb1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks Mac! Love my KS-47!

  • @JorgeGarcia-lw7vc
    @JorgeGarcia-lw7vc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A "Re-Mutant" with AR 556 magwell and firing 6.5 grendel would make a great, long lasting, accurate and reliable gun. Another option would be making 6.5 gren. AK fitting mags that would fit the AK Mutant lower and work with a 6.5 barrel and bolt. Great video. Thanks!

  • @TooManyChoices1
    @TooManyChoices1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Seems like both would benefit from having a bolt hold open even without a last round bolt hold on the magazines just to be able to add a bad lever for malfunctions. I really want one of these two but it seems like it’s only halfway finished in development the more I look at them…

  • @davidhartley6232
    @davidhartley6232 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    PSA + spare bolt, and call it good 😁

    • @chadfurtney3019
      @chadfurtney3019 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah if they'd sell ya a spare bolt. Hell I'd buy the whole BCG just to have the spare. But the damn thing is never in stock. 🤬

    • @huntsman9212
      @huntsman9212 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@chadfurtney3019 Desperate Times Desperate Measures my friend

  • @adamak47miller90
    @adamak47miller90 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I love my CMMG as much as all my AKM rifles I have.

    • @MTH615
      @MTH615 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Agree!!!

  • @dsclaiborne31
    @dsclaiborne31 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The spikes tactical t2 buffer paired with the .308 spring really reduces the "punch" as you call it on the ks 47.

  • @midwestiowashooter
    @midwestiowashooter 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Depending on when you got the MK-47 the mag release paddle has changed. CMMG sent me one when I ordered some spare parts. Before the swap I could cause magazine issues depending on push/pull of magazine. Been 100% since.

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Mine was a jam-o-matic. Safe bet I bought mine well before this upgrade.

    • @midwestiowashooter
      @midwestiowashooter 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Matteo Went back to my emails and noticed the extractor changed as well. In the end CMMG made it 100%.

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@midwestiowashooter Good deal. Although a bit of a shame that mine was a jam-o-matic. I wanted to love it. But it could not get through a single mag without at least 1 feed issue. Since then I have bought the KS47. No real issues per se. But extractors will wear out. I hope PSA does a Gen 3 and uses a bolt similar to what the 6.5 Grendel uses.

  • @DraegerV1
    @DraegerV1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks, youve helped me seal the deal on the Mutant!

  • @threebanger
    @threebanger 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    TY Mac, this video is exactly what I needed to make my decision on a x39 AR

  • @bigmad3123
    @bigmad3123 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Galil Ace in 5.56 is my favorite AK and my KS-47 pistol in 7.62 is my favorite AR... go figure... both are as reliable as they want to be...
    PSA won so hard last year...

  • @lioncelica5170
    @lioncelica5170 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A POF Revolution bolt carrier allows you to use a CMMG Mutant bolt in a KS47 btw. I'd love to see someone do this

    • @MrDLRu
      @MrDLRu 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      The lugs on the Mutant bolt won't fit through the barrel extension lug grooves on the KS47.

    • @lioncelica5170
      @lioncelica5170 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrDLRu I should have clarified that it will allow the KS47 lower to do so. Then, an upper with some sort of modified Mutant barrel might be able to work perhaps

    • @MrDLRu
      @MrDLRu 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lioncelica5170 If it takes AK47 magazines like it would with the KS47 lower, it will need a proprietary upper also.

  • @calebinman1829
    @calebinman1829 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    owned both. first bought the ks47 and had problems with the bolt carrier digging into the lips of the magazines and hanging up on them when any pressure was applied to the magazine. sent it to psa I told them the upper receiver was allowing the mags to slide too far up. they said it was the bolt carrier and gave me a new one and sent it back with the same problem continuing. sold it and bought the mutant and have not had an issue so far.

  • @wldtrky38
    @wldtrky38 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I got into a 7.62 x 39 AR just for grins... Got a nice SOTA upper at a gun show for $230, bought a PSA complete lower for $130. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger, so far. I only shoot cheap steel cased ammo but @ 100 yards it's good enough for anything I'll ever shoot. I recently added a 4-12×40 Nikon. May switch to a Sig Romeo5, but I like the true scope on this particular rifle. EDIT: Must use AR style mags. So far the ASC mags have functioned great. Several 30s, a 20 and a 10. The 10 just in case I decide to deer hunt with it.

  • @stevepace83
    @stevepace83 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It wasn't much more than a year prior to this video that the PSA rifle in gen 2 was $500 when purchased in two parts, complet upper and lower shipping included.

  • @ColeDedhand
    @ColeDedhand 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a KS47 and for me all the steel surplus mags I have work fine (Romy, Yugo, Polish). Bulgarian poly mags work fine. TAPCO mags won't lock in. PMAGs are very snug but work. I have had one fail to feed from a PMAG. No other feed or ejection problems.

  • @TheFacelessMan82
    @TheFacelessMan82 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh on a side note slightly off topic. The CMMG standard forged AR15 lower is fantastic for the money. It's just a plain ol mil-spec forged lower but the teflon coating they use is tough, durable and it looks amazing. Just thought I'd throw that out there for anyone looking for a quality mil-spec lower (if you can even find one)>

  • @Spike-13
    @Spike-13 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Hey Tim are you still going to try out your BCM MKII with a silencer? That would be a cool video

  • @evan3434
    @evan3434 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I know this is anecdotal but I bought a PSA KS-47 marked upper to use as a conversion kit for my standard ar lower utilizing uni mags. As far as I am aware the internals are all the same on the upper though I cannot confirm this. After about 500 rounds of 7.62 suppressed I had a lug on my bolt shear off. I went and bought a LMT bolt as a replacement to use with the carrier and barrel and haven't had any major problems since. Not saying that I won't have issues but I am past the 500 threashold with the LMT bolt. I have since bought some spare bolts as well to use as replacement parts if the current one fails. Barrel was 9" if anyone wants to know.

  • @NeroontheGoon
    @NeroontheGoon 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It’s really funny, two of the MOST accurate benchrest cartridges are based off of the 7.62X39.

  • @OneMoreGrave
    @OneMoreGrave 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The only issue I've come across with the KS-47 is the extractor breaks every 500-1000 rounds. Mine went at 700ish rounds. I've read some folks run a standard 223 extractor and they say it solves the problem. I personally just carry an extra extractor.

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I do the same. A 556 extractor sounds like it could cause issues since its not the right contour for the x39 case head.

    • @salcidojosiah
      @salcidojosiah 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Mine hasn't broke yet. PSA should cover that tho.

    • @MrTIMpersonGUY
      @MrTIMpersonGUY 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      J salcido good luck with their customer service right now , i just bought extra extractors from Black rifle arms . So far only red army standard has broken extractors for me

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrTIMpersonGUY Red Army Standard broke your extractor? Sounds more like you just had bad extractors.

    • @salcidojosiah
      @salcidojosiah 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrTIMpersonGUY is it bad? I haven't heard any issues with it.

  • @talontd3727
    @talontd3727 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love my KS47!

  • @sammcrae8892
    @sammcrae8892 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Yeah, I've only gotten one P-Mag so far, and it also has the problem with the mag release not coming all the way back to the trigger guard, and so I have to reach my finger out and gently pull it back. Not a problem for me as I'm not the high speed low drag type. Primarily just use it around the homestead for deer and general varmint control. I first noticed it because when I put the loaded mag in and charged it, when I fired the first shot, the magazine would fall off. Very disappointing. Instead of searching the net, I thought maybe I had just gotten a slightly out of spec P-Mag, since they are what PSA recommends. So I started looking at the hookup for that magazine thinking I just needed to shave off a bit of plastic, then I noticed that the release lever was not locking back like it does for AK metal mags. Not a big deal for me as I have several full size metal mags, and only use the P-Mag ten round for hunting and carting around since it's a lot less likely to catch on stuff in the woods. Really like my KS-47 though, I'm just hoping it doesn't break the extractor or bolt 🔩.

  • @abbybonilla4511
    @abbybonilla4511 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    IV8888 should melt the PSA

  • @kennethfox6271
    @kennethfox6271 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My Mutant has been great with no issues at all.

  • @Joelohboy
    @Joelohboy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you so much for the information, hope you have a great day.

  • @Tula1940_LB
    @Tula1940_LB 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hey Tim, Could you do a video on the SVT-40 soon? You can still find the ammo easily and if you'd like I'd glady drive your way so you can shoot mine. I've also got a VERY rare Ukrainian Mosin Nagant Sniper rifle fitted with a POSP scope that id gladly bring.

  • @Milspecpoptart
    @Milspecpoptart 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    My ks47 ran great and shot 2moa with steel case ammo before it fell overboard...

  • @bungalobill7941
    @bungalobill7941 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Match grade 7.62x39 is about as accurate as any other 30 cal match grade ammo
    One problem is the bore on certain rifles is not exactly spec for 7.62x39
    Making them less accurate. And AK's are not known for super tight tolerances

    • @mot0rhe4d40
      @mot0rhe4d40 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Closest thing to match x39 steel cased, is Golden Tiger with it's FMJ-BT bullet. It isn't called match. But my MAK-90 loves the stuff. Busting clay pigeons at 100-125 meters with irons, is a little like cheat mode lol

  • @pinger5563
    @pinger5563 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have the KS-47 got almost 1,200+ rounds through it, not a single issue. Texas2A video did a torture test kind of, on the KS47, and with a Fostech trigger and rapid-fire it had some BCG issues. I would like to see Iragvetern8888 do a meltdown on the KS47 also just to see it's stopping point. I wanted the CMMG but couldn't see the price point for it and after my friends, Banshee messed up and another friend MK47 messed up as well like it was magazine picky and had a lot of jams with SP ammunition.
    Thanks for the Video. I am impressed with the performance so far with the PSA KS47 and am interested in that suppressor video testing with it. Thanks, Mac.
    That first magazine he used, I have one just like it and it works perfectly, not sure if he got it seated, all the way, and for the love of God, put some lube in those rifles, lol.
    also, that magazine latch will break in after use, mine did that for about the first few hundred rounds, I think it's that spring in the magazine catch.

    • @airborneexplorer
      @airborneexplorer 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      6000 or more steel cased so far with not 1 hiccup. Never cleaned it yet and only applied 10w40 oil once.

  • @dorianleclair7390
    @dorianleclair7390 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good video. SAS small arm solutions does a great review on these guns too.

  • @richardescareno2433
    @richardescareno2433 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Tim, put the M+M M10X Z hybrid in that mix. Great selection.

  • @mr.excitement689
    @mr.excitement689 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Psa burnt me on the gen 1 ks47. They pretended like the issues weren’t real when notified of them. I assume the gen2 is better, but I’ll never try anything “new “ from them again.

    • @airborneexplorer
      @airborneexplorer 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Your loss. Gen 2 has been flawless. Run only steel cased. Not cleaned once in 6000 rds. And only applied oil 1 time when new. Mobile 1 syn. 10w40

    • @stefanmolnapor910
      @stefanmolnapor910 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I don't buy new models of anything, from anyone!

    • @mr.excitement689
      @mr.excitement689 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Stefan Molnapor yup- I learned a hard lesson there.

  • @tomdangelo3162
    @tomdangelo3162 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just got the PSA KS47, shooting with the supplied PMAG, the mag falls out after one shot. The mag release lever doesn't fully compress rearward, unless done manually like you were and even then the mags fall out

    • @osantiago774
      @osantiago774 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I also had the same issue.

  • @bradolsen9981
    @bradolsen9981 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for the work and effort you put into your videos you and your buddy

  • @100radsbar
    @100radsbar 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    at 15:13 you can see that the magazine release pops into the locked position against the trigger guard, when he fires the first shot, That is probably why the magazine doesn't fall out or malfunctins.

  • @New2Kendo
    @New2Kendo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love my CMMG Mutant, I do wish I had got a 10.5" instead of the 16", but I have never had am issue with mine, its accurate and cheap to shoot

    • @robertedwards5419
      @robertedwards5419 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      They make a 13.7 wich is inbetween i have 3 and love the size and performance

  • @twjonckheere
    @twjonckheere 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    My KS47 would not fit magazines snuggly and thus would not properly seat rounds. Then after looking at it I noticed the pin was missing on the lower that the front of the magazine sits on. It either fell out or they forgot to put it in. I sent it back and they promptly put the pin back. I also added some thread lock to the screw that holds that pin in to make sure it does not fall out in the future. Ever since then it seats and functions fine.

  • @walterlangkowski4723
    @walterlangkowski4723 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The mutant uses a DPMS high profile receiver and handguard which is more then double the price of a standard AR15. They made it to be bomb proof

  • @fee_lo5265
    @fee_lo5265 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    While most channels are freaking out about ammo shortages Tim is testing 75 drum mags 😂😂😂. The man must practice what everyone else preaches 😵!!!

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      IKR

    • @Matteo_
      @Matteo_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @WiffleballTony For now. Prices are going up on it now though.

  • @mbh8621
    @mbh8621 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love the x39 videos!

  • @ricks2651
    @ricks2651 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    7.62×51 is the best next to the .416 Barrett w/ crankshaft rounds.

  • @1BXB
    @1BXB 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent review, learned a lot about these rifles. Thanks.

  • @wesleypipelayer7627
    @wesleypipelayer7627 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Shoulda ended the video, with the two-handed, double-rifle Rambo battle scene

  • @jakesoros2376
    @jakesoros2376 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I seen several people try to run 75 round Korean drum mags on the PSA KS-47, only for the rifle to get damaged after shooting about 20 rounds. Essentially, the drum would end up pivoting too far backwards, causing the BCG to grind the rounds on top without picking them up.
    Don't misunderstand, the rifle ran fine with nearly every other magazine available, and perhaps Romanian 75 round drums work well. However, the Korean drum mags have a lot of play in the magwell. Wouldn't recommend using those mags.
    The KS-47 is definitely awesome though! Would recommend replacing the charging handle with something beefier like a BCM or Radian Raptor.

  • @mattramirez4172
    @mattramirez4172 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love my KS-47

  • @ETHRON1
    @ETHRON1 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh i forgot, thanks for this video my friend...been wanting a side by side vid.

  • @deedeewhipple4668
    @deedeewhipple4668 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    "I'll take a side of spare bolt with KS47 burger, please."

    • @jonmeray713
      @jonmeray713 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Deedee Whipple wow so witty.

  • @bloodking73
    @bloodking73 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I had one that didnt even last 1000 (roughly 700) rounds because the lugs in the barrel and extrator broke (the lugs on the bolt itself look fine) it had a failiure every 100 to 150 rounds, recoil felt much worse than 308 and even with an h3 buffer still has more recoil than ak, dont bother with it, only psa ive gotten, should have listened to the people saying its not for people who actually shoot their guns, no comment on cmmg never had one but aks cost less and i can be certain theyll work (combloc anyways)

    • @Milspecpoptart
      @Milspecpoptart 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      1 bad rifle out of millions. Did you warranty it?

  • @tylerbeirne5108
    @tylerbeirne5108 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The Mk47 is based on an Ar10 not Ar15. Larger lower and BCG!