@@pauliePwalnuts that’s true that’s true I stand corrected (however I’m not sure Kevlar goes upto a legit 3a i believe that’s upto ap 30-06 if I’m not mistaken) but I know that Kevlar carriers are just about extinct if I understand correctly
53:35 you see their attempt at fraud was sloppy therefore it’s not actually fraud. “You see he was pretending to be a police officer for nefarious reasons but he shouldn’t actually be charged with impersonating an officer since he didn’t even have a real badge just a sticker of one.”
Oh, can I try? "Your honour maybe they intended to (g)rape that person but you see they didn't bind them well enough and they were able to get away. So what's the big deal?"
I can't believe we actually have to talk about this. It genuinely sounds like we're discussing the villain plot points of a James Bond movie, shit is that ridiculous.
It might be best to change out the "assassinate opponents" to "jail opponents"; it doesn't seem like people can get their heads past that kind of extremity, even if it is correct.
That gets even more into the weeds. The president has no power to place someone in jail, so he’d have to ask a local court of where the person lives or a federal agency to arrest them and jail them. At that point, who’s to blame? The president who asked or the court who carried it out? It would be the responsibility of the court, of course, to deny the president’s request unless they had evidence to suggest an arrest was warranted. Therefore jailing a political opponent would be the court’s fault. A simple assassination requires much less paperwork and signatures to approve which is why it’s a better example. Only the president would be responsible for an executive order to drone strike a target in a foreign nation due to the military answering to the commander in chief.
@Damacles1776 Slight semantics but power and authority are two different things. The president doesn't have authority to order someone jailed, but by hell they have the power to do so in practice. The president is commander a chief of the most powerful military force in the world. If they say "capture that guy, put him in a cell, and do not let ANYONE let him out," then that's just what's going to happen, legal or not.
Kavangauh of all people ruling that POTUS is immune from official acts is quite the thing. according to him Clinton should've said fuck off POTUS needs head
It's so weird because I'm pretty sure plenty of people get in trouble for ATTEMPTING/INTENDING to do a thing. Even if they are such an inept loser that they fail at it or never get a chance to.
@@ToanleighThe problem with civil unrest though is it looks similar but isn't always the same. Can you have an "attempted riot" or would that be called something else? If the "attempted insurrection" was actually a spontaneous event where social unrest breaks out, is it still an insurrection?
I don't understand how so many people struggle with this presumptive immunity shit. 1:37:08 instead of just having a fucking conversation, we have to talk about literally every conservative rabbit hole without actually making progress on anything.
I am absolutely loving these arguments over the Supreme Court Immunity ruling. Excellent arc going on right now. I think Zetsui was woefully incorrect during this one.
Damn i wish i cared more about this one since you find it to be such a rich content mill. I think israel palestine was too peak for me and im on cooldown
@@brockfg tbh that arc was super boring to me. once destiny got his history down it seemed that all his debates ended with the other side just appealing to emotions "the jews are killing kids... 19yr kids...... 19yr kids with rocks..... rocks they throw at IDF" the sugar/rocket fuel was a greattttt meme for awhile though
@@dakotaxd3727 it's nice to see destiny fostering a community of debate bros who only care about entertaining arguments and extracting memes from ongoing wars. This is supposed to be an intelligent community right?
The false electors weren't false electors because they didn't have a legitimate seal or signature from the governor. They were just roleplaying and can't be held criminally responsible 🤪
I really do feel bad for some conservatives. Because genuinely, conservatives are some of the nicest and most welcoming people in the U.S..... *So long as you kowtow to whatever is the conservative hive mind majority opinion at the moment.* This creates an issue where genuinely intelligent people fall into their camp and then need to do everything in their power to convince themselves they're not surrounded by pleasant lunatics. But truthfully, _these_ are the people most worthy of contempt. I can't blame a conservative dumbfuck born in raised in the heart of the swarm for falling in line. But if you can choose your allegiance and willingly sell yourself to evil just because it comes with a smile? How much of a fucking wet tissue do you have to be to choose civility politics over intellectual rigor? Don't get me wrong, the left is a fucking mess and is absolutely deserving of condemnation. But at least there's actual opposition to our ideologues. But if you're not a conservative ideologue then you're a conservative grifter, full stop. If the forced conformity in that party increases anymore the Japanese are going to start getting jealous.
Yeah, during the previous debate, Zetsui was woefully wrong but trying to be good faith and constructive but Pisco kept insulting him over and over instead of just following him on the good faith.
Right, Pisco is so fucking condensing and never just shuts the fuck up. He complains about people never answering his questions, but ironically just ends up giving the person an out by causing a screaming match
Okay 25 min in does this guy just not understand that you can claim your political opponent is a terrorist, then trying to investigate that claim cannot be done? Is he that dumb the whole time?
The presumptive immunity thing just isn't landing with him for some reason. It's probably an unpopular opinion, but Pisco coming in and FORCING answers to questions probably moved things forwards as much as they can.
@@jenispizz2556 I don't think you understand what the guys argument was. The way Destiny and Pisco interpret the ruling means that the President in theory could do literally anything and claim it's part of a core power, and you can't question it ever because core powers aren't able to be reviewed. If your argument is: well that obviously doesn't involve a core power! Then you need to explain why, and to explain why you would need to factor in motive which the ruling specifically says you can never question in any circumstance. It sounds ridiculous but that's exactly why everyone is laughing at Destiny's interpretation of the reading along with Sotomayor, because their reading of this makes 0 sense logically.
@@TheStatisticalPizza The core power not being questioned thing is not what Destiny and Pisco argue it is, though. Counterpoints explained it in a recent video with Destiny, and all Destiny could say was "but absolute immunity!" My guy... it's absolute if it *applies.* It's not applicable if the president suddenly tells the FBI to arrest someone on charges the president came up with. The president doesn't come up with charges.
He's butthurt about being wrong all the time. His last like five supreme court predictions have been wrong 😂 like how he wanted the Biden administration to literally send the military to Texas to stop them from putting up fences, and the supreme court ended up agreeing with Texas. He's effectively a Nazi
Destiny is using Roberts own words, he isn't basing his opinion on the dissent. It's just that the dissent is incredible and the seal team 6 analogy is great.
The dissent is honestly cringe if you know basic chain of command and legal limitations on how the US military deploys. I feel Sotomayor knows this (look up the Posse Commitatus Act) but chose it because it sounded good.
Ya it's bad wording but it was definitely too unorganized to be a coup. Usually with a coup you'd be able to find a track record of people who distributed weapons, game plans that were preplanned, who the leaders are in the coup. Etc etc. And you'd normally need actual evidence. Like a conversation where someone is like "ok, we're gonna break down this door, we have ten minutes to get to this room and arrest these ten politicians." That's usually what a coup entails. Jan 6 in comparison to that is effectively reduced to a riot. Actually, it was a mostly peaceful protest AT BEST
@@swickens930 the actual riot of Jan 6 is just the finale. The fake electors scheme trying to steal the election is literally the part you're asking for lol. The leaders, the plan, the evidence is all there.
I get it now. Whereas the “panic” side views “core power” to amount to an open door that leads to some unknown expanse, These people see it as a door into a room. But they’re never able to say WHY they believe those walls exist
This is quite depressing. Meltdown-guy is fully aware this ruling is awful and is in complete denial. He's like a child being told Santa Claus isn't real and instead of accepting that will continue to believe regardless of any consequences
The president needs some kind of REAL power now evry term these corrupt officials and intelligence officers telling u the leader how it’s gonna go now u can say they are official targets which would be great some of those in power have too go and they won’t go willingly especially the intelligence sectors they have too much power
@@Majorwindybut the constitution describes the pardon power, and stabbing isn’t part of it. If the president is telling his officers how to protect the USA from terrorists, he’s still DOING that even if the instruction is to kill a political rival rather than a terrorist. But if he CLAIMS to be performing a core function and then ACTUALLY goes and exposes himself on the White House lawn, that’s not protected. This stabbing/pardon analogy is dumb
@Zetsui655 interesting. But would the comparison fall apart because for pardoning by stabbing is a discussion of the method by which the president exercised his power but killing a political rival it discussion of what target the president exercised their power against. Not remotly lawyer or nothing so I'm just curious if I'm missing something
@@Zetsui655 Pardon has a meaning, and stabbing is not the same thing. We would clearly agree that Trump merely shouting "I'm using my pardon powers" while stabbing people randomly would not be immune, right? In light of this paragraph: "The indictment’s allegations that the requested investigations were shams or proposed for an improper purpose do not divest the President of exclusive authority over the investigative and prosecutorial functions of the Justice Department and its officials. Because the President cannot be prosecuted for conduct within his exclusive constitutional authority, Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the alleged conduct involving his discussions with Justice Department officials." How can you argue that this wouldn't grant immunity? This sentence (from Roberts, not the dissent) says EVEN IF the proposed investegations were shams,Trump has "exclusive authority over the investigative and prosecutorial functions of the Justice Department and its officials." then specifies "Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the alleged conduct involving his discussions with Justice Department officials." So if we look at other departments, whichever department is allowed to kill terrorists to stop terror plots, would Trump not have ""exclusive authority over the [murdering terrorists] functions of the [whichever] Department and its officials."? And this copied analogy > If the president is telling someone he is pardoning them , he's still DOING that even if he stabs them rather than signs a document. doesn't make any sense at all. When I said "doing that", I meant he was TELLING his officers how to fulfill their role. The ruling clearly states that this is protected, even if the public or the courts don't think what he's telling them to do SHOULD be a part of their job, he's been vested with that power. To put it another way: If Trump legitimately believed Pelosi was wearing a bomb vest to the next Senate session, it WOULD be correct for him to Seal Team 6 her. There is equivalent situation in which it would be correct for the president to stab a pardonee.
How can destiny be so patient with those two? Pisco doesnt seem to be listning to zetsui and zetsui getting perma mad because the facts dont support what he is saying.
Holy fuck Zetsui’s defense and ability to wiggle out of shit is actually impressive.I think Zestiny’s argument is correct but the fact Z didn’t concede a single point because he brought up phony argument after argument is actually impressive
There should not be any latitude given to these types of "arguers". At a certain point the "ultimate skeptic " approach has indistinguishable consequences and behaviors from a legit dishonest person arguing in bad faith and they should be treated as such.
I’m fairly certain a core power is a power that is exclusively granted to the president that cannot be abridged in any way. Being the commander in chief is core, but not all orders he gives in that role are not core.
Y'know its super easy as a Canadian to make that stereotypical joke of "sitting up here watching a dumpster fire only grow in size" but at this point im legitimately concerned This is probably one of, if not the most contentious political topic in the last 20 years
I feel like destiny is taking this supreme court decision a little too literally and 'logically' the supreme court is extremely fickle in many issues(even with the same composition) contradictory and often crafts decisions to arrive at ends despite precedence or even recently created rules. This decision is bad BUT 1. SCOTUS might full on reverse the decision in the near future 2. They might completely contradict it, and claim the decision doesn't reverse and everything is consistent 3. They might entirely alter or nuance or bend all the definitions in any different situation It's pretty dumb the way SCOTUS often does this, and this decision is both bad and dangerous, but it seems decently likely none of the extreme examples happen they just wanted to both hinder/destroy/delay the trump charges on this one thing and then will move on.
So on the Hilary topic and if Trump would abuse his power, we got there by this guy saying Trump didn't go after Hilary once he won. But then Destiny reads a couple articles that say that Trump tried to but was stopped by WH lawyers and other staff. Then this guy just slowly walks away from that claim like he wasn't shown to be wrong and giving Trump more good faith than he deserves.
Well, for this guy and many like him, they only count successes(like a PUA, lol). They handwave away attempts in which they fail. It allows them to weasel into the "But did he really try if he didn't succeed?" frame of arguments. For example "If Trump tried to coup how come he isn't still in power?" They are able to ignore that loss and pretend like he didn't even try. Because obviously if he "really" tried he would have won. Because Trump is a winner, he says so, and his people are on the winning side, he says so, except when dealing with cheaters. How do they know someone cheated? Because they lost. Remember winners don't lose...except to cheaters. All gamers are aware of this argument. It's the cry of the "casual" that hit a skill cap and can't accept it so they make excuses(hacks/lag) instead of maybe self reflecting and realizing that they are just losers. ;)
how can ANY American justify this ruling!??! it's wholly unconstitutional! it's not even in the spirit of the constitution. How come the Founders didn't draft this?! Is there a record of Washington, Adams, or Jefferson wanting absolute immunity for official acts? What even if an official act and why does one need to break the law in doing so??
@@mariomario1462 did you forget that Lincoln tore up 1A in the US to maintain his presidency and jailed hundreds of dissidents without trial? Did you forget about FDR's interment camps of American citizens during WW2?
The action can be examined and determined relevant to the core power being cited, but motive cannot be examined. So you could say I killed someone in order to perform a pardon, but the core power of pardoning does not involve killing, so it would not be covered.
This guy is such a sore loser. He refuses to factor previous actions taken by people to pruposefully create these agents in scenarios that have zero predispositions and then be like "Well it could be anything teehee".
Im used to ppl always wanting to be tagged and shit, but rlly it bothers me that, even in the description, I can’t find out who he is talking to! Is there a reason for this??
I believe its something Trump has on his website that lefties are taking out of context or flat out lying about it in extreme ways. Thats what I heard but thats about it.
I’m really surprised at Robert’s here. I always saw him as the ultimate fence sitter and figured he probably hated Trump. Yet he has the most extreme take on this. wtf is happening here??
This might actually be good if we get a good president which none of the candidates are whit this power u can take out any corrupt officials or intelligence officers who get too cocky 😂
Every time you say something plausible against Destiny's argument "wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait " before you make your point.
The problem with the opinion simply is that it effectively makes the pretense an almost undeniable justification. Dunno why these dudes have such blinders.
The pardon stabbing thing seems simple to me. pardon has a clear definition that has no room for interpretation. It is a process and is done the same way every time. The power of pardon is fully defined and any deviation from it is not a pardon. You dont need motive and you dont need to review any conversation the president had prior to the stabbing to be able to say X action is not a part of the pardon power. You only have to look at the act itself. I dont believe the president has the power to define how a pardon is performed i also dont believe the president can force a pardon upon someone without their consent. I could easily be wrong about the mechanism of pardons but thats how i think it works from 2 seconds of google and thought.
Pisco ends up almost always being wrong though. The supreme court ended up supporting Texas in relation to the fence thing, and now the immunity thing. He's almost always wrong when he interprets constitutional law.
@@swickens930well we do also have a corrupt supreme court so pisco could be interpreting constitutional law reasonably and still getting different decisions than the court
@@swickens930 yeah I completely disagree with that sentiment. But hey the rapist has to be good at something to have earned his spot so maybe you're right
22:15 its less about what Trump would do on his own, but more about what his cabinet would want done. What policy would they place on his desk, ao he can stroke his ego signing something. He doesn't read so could be manipulated with parts of the bill.
The plot was widely known enough for me to know about it as someone who doesnt actively dig. I think at the time Destiny was balls deep into redpill stuff and trying to bridge the divide between the parties and didnt care about all the trump crap going on
Pisco is so obnoxious and aggressive in these discussions. I feel like all the good moments that Destiny and Zetsui could of had were ruined by Pisco just angrily yelling like an unhinged redditor.
Not another SCOTUS Debate vid starting off with probably the dumbest argument in the vid first. He provides an example of a crime, saying "pardoning" and stabbing someone, while burying the lede, that the previous examples have intentional official coverage to remove legal exposure.
God I was wrong, He got so stuck on the memo, as plausible alternatives to an insurrection without any critical thinking in the actions taken. 'On the ground no thought it was an insurrection...signs dont count' 😂
Destiny Gets Grilled On AI Consciousness & Jordan Peterson Debate Fumble
►th-cam.com/video/km-YICGUYEM/w-d-xo.html
It's only an Insurrection, if you gain control of the opponents creatures and give them haste.
You also untap all creatures.
First in last out
@@patterofheads256 Thats implied though, as long as you know the reference lol
@@Zetsui655 Oh, See, This guy gets it lol.
In response, I cast Delay targeting Insurrection.
It's only an insurrection if everyone was wearing level 4 plates in their armor.
I agree. Trump wanted guards but Nancy wanted insurrection. Let’s send her to 300 years in prison for insurrection
Else it’s just sparkling treason
The plates are the armor you can’t can’t wear plates in armor
It’s only an insurrection between the hours of 10-4
@@pauliePwalnuts that’s true that’s true
I stand corrected (however I’m not sure Kevlar goes upto a legit 3a i believe that’s upto ap 30-06 if I’m not mistaken) but I know that Kevlar carriers are just about extinct if I understand correctly
This guy isnt debating. He is trying not to lose
Unc Borelli cooked up a fresh batch of borellini for dinner for us today
It's aunt borelli
stewed magaturd, my favorite
What da haaaalee
53:35 you see their attempt at fraud was sloppy therefore it’s not actually fraud.
“You see he was pretending to be a police officer for nefarious reasons but he shouldn’t actually be charged with impersonating an officer since he didn’t even have a real badge just a sticker of one.”
Oh, can I try?
"Your honour maybe they intended to (g)rape that person but you see they didn't bind them well enough and they were able to get away. So what's the big deal?"
Well in your hypothetical probably would plead insanity
You see I was only pretending to be retarded
August not giving us timestamps for a 2 hour heated political debate
Timestamps are a core power of August editing. There's no crime in not providing them (as long as it's an official act).
Is crazy
@@PixelPenguin77 this is a crime against livestreaming law and the TH-cam police are arriving to arrest him shortly
The real Nazism in this country
@@PixelPenguin77 based and dictator pilled
This is like the debate version of the scene in SpongeBob where Ray Man tries to give Patrick his wallet. Holy shit.
7 minutes in and I can’t believe I’m gonna listen to this whole thing. It’s just gonna be this for the whole video isn’t it?
Sounds like it
Spoiler warning, it is 😂
I can't believe we actually have to talk about this. It genuinely sounds like we're discussing the villain plot points of a James Bond movie, shit is that ridiculous.
It’s only an insurrection if you have a level 18 cleric buffing you
It might be best to change out the "assassinate opponents" to "jail opponents"; it doesn't seem like people can get their heads past that kind of extremity, even if it is correct.
That gets even more into the weeds. The president has no power to place someone in jail, so he’d have to ask a local court of where the person lives or a federal agency to arrest them and jail them. At that point, who’s to blame? The president who asked or the court who carried it out? It would be the responsibility of the court, of course, to deny the president’s request unless they had evidence to suggest an arrest was warranted. Therefore jailing a political opponent would be the court’s fault. A simple assassination requires much less paperwork and signatures to approve which is why it’s a better example. Only the president would be responsible for an executive order to drone strike a target in a foreign nation due to the military answering to the commander in chief.
@Damacles1776 Slight semantics but power and authority are two different things. The president doesn't have authority to order someone jailed, but by hell they have the power to do so in practice. The president is commander a chief of the most powerful military force in the world. If they say "capture that guy, put him in a cell, and do not let ANYONE let him out," then that's just what's going to happen, legal or not.
@@Damacles1776deportation would be easier
Obama indefinite detention
You mean like Abraham Lincoln did? Or Roosevelt? I love how y'all keep crying like this has never happened before.
Turns out he did have authorization to investigate clinton.
Lol
Kavangauh of all people ruling that POTUS is immune from official acts is quite the thing. according to him Clinton should've said fuck off POTUS needs head
He did investigate his own DOJ investigation into Hillary Clinton came up with nothing, so he just ignored it like it never happened.
it is a relief to see him finally putting it all together
Please separate these vods into chapters... > pisco joins here < so we can skip the parts that pisco completely ruins
This guy cheekily asked if "all lies are fraud" right before basically arguing that a scheme can't be fraudulent if it's too stupid to work
It's so weird because I'm pretty sure plenty of people get in trouble for ATTEMPTING/INTENDING to do a thing.
Even if they are such an inept loser that they fail at it or never get a chance to.
No, all lies are not fraud lol. Fraud involves a damaged party that was unduly damaged because of the lie.
@@ToanleighThe problem with civil unrest though is it looks similar but isn't always the same. Can you have an "attempted riot" or would that be called something else? If the "attempted insurrection" was actually a spontaneous event where social unrest breaks out, is it still an insurrection?
@@swickens930 Thank you captain obvious
@@patchhappens7575 Whoa good bro
So this is 2 hours of a guy that can’t even make it past level 1 of even being able to have the conversation
I don't understand how so many people struggle with this presumptive immunity shit.
1:37:08 instead of just having a fucking conversation, we have to talk about literally every conservative rabbit hole without actually making progress on anything.
@@jenispizz2556Huh. So that's why they're called conservatives 😂
I am absolutely loving these arguments over the Supreme Court Immunity ruling. Excellent arc going on right now. I think Zetsui was woefully incorrect during this one.
Damn i wish i cared more about this one since you find it to be such a rich content mill. I think israel palestine was too peak for me and im on cooldown
@@brockfg tbh that arc was super boring to me. once destiny got his history down it seemed that all his debates ended with the other side just appealing to emotions
"the jews are killing kids... 19yr kids...... 19yr kids with rocks..... rocks they throw at IDF"
the sugar/rocket fuel was a greattttt meme for awhile though
@@dakotaxd3727yea stupid people caring about dead kids, dont they know my favorite streamer knows about the history?!
@@dakotaxd3727 it's nice to see destiny fostering a community of debate bros who only care about entertaining arguments and extracting memes from ongoing wars. This is supposed to be an intelligent community right?
@@ItsDigidyDanNo.
Now that that question is out of way, we're glad to have you here with us.
Anything else?
This is Olympic level mental gymnastics
Insurrection is when I berate into my mic
Yeah..destiny shouldn't talk about US politics. He's a partisan hack
The false electors weren't false electors because they didn't have a legitimate seal or signature from the governor. They were just roleplaying and can't be held criminally responsible 🤪
I really do feel bad for some conservatives. Because genuinely, conservatives are some of the nicest and most welcoming people in the U.S..... *So long as you kowtow to whatever is the conservative hive mind majority opinion at the moment.* This creates an issue where genuinely intelligent people fall into their camp and then need to do everything in their power to convince themselves they're not surrounded by pleasant lunatics. But truthfully, _these_ are the people most worthy of contempt. I can't blame a conservative dumbfuck born in raised in the heart of the swarm for falling in line. But if you can choose your allegiance and willingly sell yourself to evil just because it comes with a smile? How much of a fucking wet tissue do you have to be to choose civility politics over intellectual rigor? Don't get me wrong, the left is a fucking mess and is absolutely deserving of condemnation. But at least there's actual opposition to our ideologues. But if you're not a conservative ideologue then you're a conservative grifter, full stop. If the forced conformity in that party increases anymore the Japanese are going to start getting jealous.
45% chance he thinks btw :^ )
5 minutes in...does this guy know attempted murder charges is a thing?
Yeah, but it's also not really applicable here.
I feel like pisco ruins a lot of arguments because he goes so aggressive.
Yeah, during the previous debate, Zetsui was woefully wrong but trying to be good faith and constructive but Pisco kept insulting him over and over instead of just following him on the good faith.
@@lazysod3no way is Zetsu is arguing from good faith. 🤡🤡
Pisco gonna pissco
I just turn off the video if I see Pisco in the preview
Right, Pisco is so fucking condensing and never just shuts the fuck up. He complains about people never answering his questions, but ironically just ends up giving the person an out by causing a screaming match
Im so glad No Bullshit found a way to pivot into law!
Is this no bullshit? I this guy sounded familiar
@@Kai-lp5ejno it isn't
Harsh, but not unwarranted.
Okay 25 min in does this guy just not understand that you can claim your political opponent is a terrorist, then trying to investigate that claim cannot be done? Is he that dumb the whole time?
The presumptive immunity thing just isn't landing with him for some reason.
It's probably an unpopular opinion, but Pisco coming in and FORCING answers to questions probably moved things forwards as much as they can.
@@jenispizz2556I had to stop watching when I commented. The point is so obvious.
@@jenispizz2556 I don't think you understand what the guys argument was. The way Destiny and Pisco interpret the ruling means that the President in theory could do literally anything and claim it's part of a core power, and you can't question it ever because core powers aren't able to be reviewed. If your argument is: well that obviously doesn't involve a core power! Then you need to explain why, and to explain why you would need to factor in motive which the ruling specifically says you can never question in any circumstance.
It sounds ridiculous but that's exactly why everyone is laughing at Destiny's interpretation of the reading along with Sotomayor, because their reading of this makes 0 sense logically.
@@TheStatisticalPizzalol you’re missing the point in the same way.
@@TheStatisticalPizza The core power not being questioned thing is not what Destiny and Pisco argue it is, though. Counterpoints explained it in a recent video with Destiny, and all Destiny could say was "but absolute immunity!"
My guy... it's absolute if it *applies.* It's not applicable if the president suddenly tells the FBI to arrest someone on charges the president came up with. The president doesn't come up with charges.
Imagine if Good Lawgic came on for this convo lmao
1:22:45 Pisco really needs to chill out, he is just making everyone act super defensive against him because he keeps making insults...
nah. dude was being a belligerent clown well before pisco came in
He's butthurt about being wrong all the time. His last like five supreme court predictions have been wrong 😂 like how he wanted the Biden administration to literally send the military to Texas to stop them from putting up fences, and the supreme court ended up agreeing with Texas. He's effectively a Nazi
STOP THE PISS
Zetsui sound exactly like Dan + Pisco.
Why does Pisco have to jump on during a 1 on 1 debate 🤦♂️ 2 v 1 just isn’t fair and they were having a good conversation beforehand.
Geez pisco is such a jerk he tries to be destiny by demanding answers to his hypotheticals
Destiny is using Roberts own words, he isn't basing his opinion on the dissent. It's just that the dissent is incredible and the seal team 6 analogy is great.
The dissent is honestly cringe if you know basic chain of command and legal limitations on how the US military deploys. I feel Sotomayor knows this (look up the Posse Commitatus Act) but chose it because it sounded good.
@@Zetsui655in your opinion, why wouldn’t SCOTUS say “yep it’s totally fine” ?
Lmfao i love the "it cant be a coup, they were too incompetent for it to he a coup"
Ya it's bad wording but it was definitely too unorganized to be a coup. Usually with a coup you'd be able to find a track record of people who distributed weapons, game plans that were preplanned, who the leaders are in the coup. Etc etc. And you'd normally need actual evidence. Like a conversation where someone is like "ok, we're gonna break down this door, we have ten minutes to get to this room and arrest these ten politicians." That's usually what a coup entails. Jan 6 in comparison to that is effectively reduced to a riot. Actually, it was a mostly peaceful protest AT BEST
@@swickens930 the actual riot of Jan 6 is just the finale. The fake electors scheme trying to steal the election is literally the part you're asking for lol. The leaders, the plan, the evidence is all there.
I get it now. Whereas the “panic” side views “core power” to amount to an open door that leads to some unknown expanse, These people see it as a door into a room. But they’re never able to say WHY they believe those walls exist
This has contributed to me eventually acquiring the depression debuff
Zetsu really triggered tf out of pisco hahahahah
Lol people will say destiny wins by making semantic arguments then this guy will be their champion.
This is quite depressing. Meltdown-guy is fully aware this ruling is awful and is in complete denial. He's like a child being told Santa Claus isn't real and instead of accepting that will continue to believe regardless of any consequences
The president needs some kind of REAL power now evry term these corrupt officials and intelligence officers telling u the leader how it’s gonna go now u can say they are official targets which would be great some of those in power have too go and they won’t go willingly especially the intelligence sectors they have too much power
Exskillsme vibes and cadence
This whole debate I was thinking those was him they sound and argue the same
Am I dumb but isnt the answer to the first hypothetical is that pardoning has a built in procedure
Not really. Congress can’t dictate how the president goes about using his pardon power. It’s up to the president to decide.
@@Majorwindybut the constitution describes the pardon power, and stabbing isn’t part of it.
If the president is telling his officers how to protect the USA from terrorists, he’s still DOING that even if the instruction is to kill a political rival rather than a terrorist.
But if he CLAIMS to be performing a core function and then ACTUALLY goes and exposes himself on the White House lawn, that’s not protected.
This stabbing/pardon analogy is dumb
@Zetsui655 interesting. But would the comparison fall apart because for pardoning by stabbing is a discussion of the method by which the president exercised his power but killing a political rival it discussion of what target the president exercised their power against.
Not remotly lawyer or nothing so I'm just curious if I'm missing something
@@MrSpleenface this is all up to the courts now. Ask them. You can’t ask Congress.
@@Zetsui655 Pardon has a meaning, and stabbing is not the same thing.
We would clearly agree that Trump merely shouting "I'm using my pardon powers" while stabbing people randomly would not be immune, right?
In light of this paragraph:
"The indictment’s allegations that the requested investigations were shams or proposed for an improper purpose do not divest the President of exclusive authority over the investigative and prosecutorial functions of the Justice Department and its officials. Because the President cannot be prosecuted for conduct within his exclusive constitutional authority, Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the alleged conduct involving his discussions with Justice Department officials."
How can you argue that this wouldn't grant immunity?
This sentence (from Roberts, not the dissent) says EVEN IF the proposed investegations were shams,Trump has "exclusive authority over the investigative and prosecutorial functions of the Justice Department and its officials." then specifies "Trump is absolutely immune from prosecution for the alleged conduct involving his discussions with Justice Department officials."
So if we look at other departments, whichever department is allowed to kill terrorists to stop terror plots, would Trump not have ""exclusive authority over the [murdering terrorists] functions of the [whichever] Department and its officials."?
And this copied analogy
> If the president is telling someone he is pardoning them , he's still DOING that even if he stabs them rather than signs a document.
doesn't make any sense at all.
When I said "doing that", I meant he was TELLING his officers how to fulfill their role. The ruling clearly states that this is protected, even if the public or the courts don't think what he's telling them to do SHOULD be a part of their job, he's been vested with that power.
To put it another way:
If Trump legitimately believed Pelosi was wearing a bomb vest to the next Senate session, it WOULD be correct for him to Seal Team 6 her. There is equivalent situation in which it would be correct for the president to stab a pardonee.
I get dumber every time Zetsui opens his mouth.
Insurrection is when my cognitive is dissonant
Happy to be of service :)
@@Zetsui655You sounded like a sperg
Why does Destiny's theory on pardoning sound like the pope blessing the Crusades from sin?
How can destiny be so patient with those two? Pisco doesnt seem to be listning to zetsui and zetsui getting perma mad because the facts dont support what he is saying.
Holy fuck Zetsui’s defense and ability to wiggle out of shit is actually impressive.I think Zestiny’s argument is correct but the fact Z didn’t concede a single point because he brought up phony argument after argument is actually impressive
very impressive. Impressively slimy, but impressive nonetheless lol
There should not be any latitude given to these types of "arguers". At a certain point the "ultimate skeptic " approach has indistinguishable consequences and behaviors from a legit dishonest person arguing in bad faith and they should be treated as such.
Will give shapiro a run for his money
Destiny has goth girl that's trying to go against her conservative parents energy
Okay but why are there 60 ads?
Why give people who are only doing mental gymnastics the time of day?
_alt universe where Darius went into law_ ✨
I’m fairly certain a core power is a power that is exclusively granted to the president that cannot be abridged in any way. Being the commander in chief is core, but not all orders he gives in that role are not core.
Y'know its super easy as a Canadian to make that stereotypical joke of "sitting up here watching a dumpster fire only grow in size" but at this point im legitimately concerned
This is probably one of, if not the most contentious political topic in the last 20 years
Justin Trudeau has been running your country for like 20 years lol. You guys are actually a fascist nation it's hilarious
Can pisco get any more insufferable
I feel like destiny is taking this supreme court decision a little too literally and 'logically' the supreme court is extremely fickle in many issues(even with the same composition) contradictory and often crafts decisions to arrive at ends despite precedence or even recently created rules. This decision is bad BUT 1. SCOTUS might full on reverse the decision in the near future 2. They might completely contradict it, and claim the decision doesn't reverse and everything is consistent 3. They might entirely alter or nuance or bend all the definitions in any different situation
It's pretty dumb the way SCOTUS often does this, and this decision is both bad and dangerous, but it seems decently likely none of the extreme examples happen they just wanted to both hinder/destroy/delay the trump charges on this one thing and then will move on.
ok I was following along but this dude totally lost the plot when he started talking about jan 6
16:20 This statement just aged real quick
aged like fucking milk
Waiying for the pauls ego segment to drop, watched live
So on the Hilary topic and if Trump would abuse his power, we got there by this guy saying Trump didn't go after Hilary once he won. But then Destiny reads a couple articles that say that Trump tried to but was stopped by WH lawyers and other staff. Then this guy just slowly walks away from that claim like he wasn't shown to be wrong and giving Trump more good faith than he deserves.
Well, for this guy and many like him, they only count successes(like a PUA, lol).
They handwave away attempts in which they fail.
It allows them to weasel into the "But did he really try if he didn't succeed?" frame of arguments.
For example "If Trump tried to coup how come he isn't still in power?"
They are able to ignore that loss and pretend like he didn't even try.
Because obviously if he "really" tried he would have won.
Because Trump is a winner, he says so, and his people are on the winning side, he says so, except when dealing with cheaters.
How do they know someone cheated?
Because they lost.
Remember winners don't lose...except to cheaters.
All gamers are aware of this argument.
It's the cry of the "casual" that hit a skill cap and can't accept it so they make excuses(hacks/lag) instead of maybe self reflecting and realizing that they are just losers. ;)
This guy, contrarian to the max
At 21:58 who whispered???? It scared the shit out of me lmao.
Certified gooner
how can ANY American justify this ruling!??! it's wholly unconstitutional! it's not even in the spirit of the constitution. How come the Founders didn't draft this?! Is there a record of Washington, Adams, or Jefferson wanting absolute immunity for official acts? What even if an official act and why does one need to break the law in doing so??
It's perfectly in line with the precedents set by Abraham Lincoln and FDR.
We’re cooked brother. America is simply rejecting democracy.
@@patterofheads256 how? Explain?
@@mariomario1462 did you forget that Lincoln tore up 1A in the US to maintain his presidency and jailed hundreds of dissidents without trial?
Did you forget about FDR's interment camps of American citizens during WW2?
@@patterofheads256 no they didn't. Go spew your misinformation somewhere else
The action can be examined and determined relevant to the core power being cited, but motive cannot be examined. So you could say I killed someone in order to perform a pardon, but the core power of pardoning does not involve killing, so it would not be covered.
This guy is such a sore loser. He refuses to factor previous actions taken by people to pruposefully create these agents in scenarios that have zero predispositions and then be like "Well it could be anything teehee".
Wa wa wee wa
Verrr nice! High five 👏🤣
womp womp
This pisco guy might have the most annoying way to speak ive ever seen
Im used to ppl always wanting to be tagged and shit, but rlly it bothers me that, even in the description, I can’t find out who he is talking to!
Is there a reason for this??
Ohhh! At 59:45 he was so ready to piss! D blueballed him from the piss. 😂
Which director do we want for the 8 ep miniseries on Trump and what is the title gonna be
Two and a half hours of that meme with Patrick and Man Ray and the wallet. America is doomed.
It's sad how much people like this are unable to see reality
I agree with you, but you should sharpen your criticism to a singular point instead of sniping him with hollow criticism.
Yeah...I agree destiny is completely lost
pisco keeps giving content
This is braindead... just ask the same question over and over again until you get the answer you want, refuse to elaborate... Debate brain BS
Okay... im gonna say it... what the F is Project 2025? 😳
I believe its something Trump has on his website that lefties are taking out of context or flat out lying about it in extreme ways. Thats what I heard but thats about it.
@@newsdan8193 I heard the opposite. Oh no who can we believe now?
It's an agenda written up by the Heritage Foundation. Doesn't have anything to do with Trump. Not on his website.
Look it up, it's creepy
I’m really surprised at Robert’s here. I always saw him as the ultimate fence sitter and figured he probably hated Trump. Yet he has the most extreme take on this. wtf is happening here??
Stephen should try and get Alan Dershowitz on to steelmam the suprerme court decusion,
He seems to think the judgment wasnt a big deal!
This might actually be good if we get a good president which none of the candidates are whit this power u can take out any corrupt officials or intelligence officers who get too cocky 😂
No time stamps and 800 adds :(
Every time you say something plausible against Destiny's argument "wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait " before you make your point.
This guy is super confused by Mob movies.
Why would the descent have to engage with explicitly in the majority? They don't. The immunity is stronger than the debater thinks.
The problem with the opinion simply is that it effectively makes the pretense an almost undeniable justification. Dunno why these dudes have such blinders.
2:05:10 is the slam dunk moment, like jesus christ
The pardon stabbing thing seems simple to me. pardon has a clear definition that has no room for interpretation. It is a process and is done the same way every time. The power of pardon is fully defined and any deviation from it is not a pardon. You dont need motive and you dont need to review any conversation the president had prior to the stabbing to be able to say X action is not a part of the pardon power. You only have to look at the act itself. I dont believe the president has the power to define how a pardon is performed i also dont believe the president can force a pardon upon someone without their consent.
I could easily be wrong about the mechanism of pardons but thats how i think it works from 2 seconds of google and thought.
If we applied this level of mental gymnastic to everything - Ted Bundy was just a charming man who never hurt anybody.
Pissco strikes again.
The one who pisses
Wouldn’t you just argue that he isn’t using the parole power when stabbing someone? It’s not anything he claims is a core power.
Certified banger.
It's really hard to prove trump is smart enough to never say I know there was no fraud for legal reason when everyone thinks his an idiot....
Why does EVERYONE feel the need to be so over dramatic? This while conversation lost me some brain cells!
Rage incarnate!!+
I just came here for the screaming, can someone point me to it?
It's so funny when they make up toward the end and the guy says Pisco's his favorite orbiter hahaha (he's mine too)
sounds like bowblax
1:51:00 - "THEYRE HOLDING UP SIGNS SAYING INSURRECTION" cracks me up like he cant make it any clearer
If anything, Jan 6 was an _attempt_ at an insurrection. The rection was not insurted. *It didn't work*
Nothing to do with this video but if youve been yabbed and injured The Wellness Companys Spike Support helps with that.
16:10 nice pivot. 😐
Pisco just can't get one argument out without being an insulting prick. No matter how right he is, he can't for a second hold back his shit attitude.
it took him almost half an hour of this m*ron's bad faith cr*p until Pisco started insulting him, I'd say that's quite the restraint
Pisco ends up almost always being wrong though. The supreme court ended up supporting Texas in relation to the fence thing, and now the immunity thing. He's almost always wrong when he interprets constitutional law.
@@swickens930well we do also have a corrupt supreme court so pisco could be interpreting constitutional law reasonably and still getting different decisions than the court
@@Kardurst9789 Lol no sorry dude. The people on the supreme court are way smarter and know way more about law than pisco bud nice try
@@swickens930 yeah I completely disagree with that sentiment. But hey the rapist has to be good at something to have earned his spot so maybe you're right
1:05:51 John Eastman got disbarred for his January 6th lies!
22:15 its less about what Trump would do on his own, but more about what his cabinet would want done. What policy would they place on his desk, ao he can stroke his ego signing something. He doesn't read so could be manipulated with parts of the bill.
The plot was widely known enough for me to know about it as someone who doesnt actively dig. I think at the time Destiny was balls deep into redpill stuff and trying to bridge the divide between the parties and didnt care about all the trump crap going on
Pisco is so obnoxious and aggressive in these discussions. I feel like all the good moments that Destiny and Zetsui could of had were ruined by Pisco just angrily yelling like an unhinged redditor.
Not another SCOTUS Debate vid starting off with probably the dumbest argument in the vid first. He provides an example of a crime, saying "pardoning" and stabbing someone, while burying the lede, that the previous examples have intentional official coverage to remove legal exposure.
God I was wrong, He got so stuck on the memo, as plausible alternatives to an insurrection without any critical thinking in the actions taken. 'On the ground no thought it was an insurrection...signs dont count' 😂