Dark willow is in the house..Buffy The Vampire Slayer S06E20 'Villains''♡Reaction & Review♡
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
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I hope with all my heart that you might possibly consider watching Good Omens. It’s a fantasy comedy and it’s very quirky and has a very loyal cult following. I hope you will consider it. Love your Buffy reactions!
No way you finished buffy! I cant wait for all the other reactions ❤
"Bored now" is the same line that vamp Willow used, so it was a great callback to something we know that an evil Willow would say
Yes. That was always the line that got me.
@@shawnyoung381 but remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with your own.
Actually in the episode that Buffy says that to willow about her vampire doppelganger Angle immediately starts to correct before being shushed. Pretty much proving that your personal as a human very much affects your personal as a vampire. The show repeatedly shows us with any vampire we spend anytime with that their human personality shapes their vampire personality. In fact if you think of a personality as a recipe all the vampire does is remove a couple ingredients and add the hunger. So everything about the vampire's personality comes from the human just missing a couple parts.
@@shawnyoung381 considering she says that right after williows says her vampire seemed gay, i thought it was obvious ;)
Yeah and what's so genius, is that in the episode Doppelgangland good Willow pretending to be vampire Willow says "I am so bored" instead. ! Perfect!😂
Something I never really caught before now: when Rack tells him the Slayer isn't what he needs to be worrying about, Warren says something like, "Fine. Let's talk about my skin problems." I see what you did there, Buffy writers.
I love how we all collectively become pro murder during this episode 😂 this was such a good reaction!
"Buffy has become her own Watcher" 17:33 had never occurred to me before, but she really is saying what Giles would say. That, and noticing the picture of Joyce (and Buffy's hairstyle suddenly making her look so much like her mother) is a great apprehension of Buffy's having attained real maturity.
Wow great point re: Joyce's hair. I never noticed that.
Sofie is really good at catching on to things that some of us don't see after several watches!
At the time of filming this episode, Amber Benson and Adam Busch (Warren) were actually dating. Joss Whedon told Adam that he was going to kill his girlfriend in the next episode, and Adam asked "Warren gets a girlfriend?" Whedon said, "No, your real girlfriend."
He still gets people attacking him online about Tara.
wow that's low ,its not like the actor wrote the script ,people take shit too seriously and become terrible humans in the process.@@jspettifer
@@trufamilybromontqc It’s very light hearted taunting.
@@jspettifer Can't believe people do that :(
@@trufamilybromontqc he knows it’s in good fun and it is a testament to his ability as an actor.
To play the most evil horrible character in the whole of Buffy so convincingly
"I didn't want to leave her alone" - breaks me every single time
Yes. To think about what Dawn went through for hours, all alone. It makes me cry every time.
One of many “This show, tho…” moments in the episode. Am I the first one to ever ask myself “Why would I subject myself to this again?” As I watch reaction videos? It’s quite a ride, emotionally, even with the cuts.
Tara was my favorite character.
The vamp in the bar is our hero, letting Warren live so we could have that final scene. 😁
Never thought of it that way. Now I do. Thanks :)
I’m glad you were able to see that the bathroom scene wasn’t just black and white. Buffy and Spike’s relationship was always one where they fought. It was like foreplay in some cases. So it would be easy for Spike to think that it was ok to be aggressive. It isn’t ok but I can see why he would think so.
It took him a while to realize Buffy was not into it and he was doing something wrong. That’s the soulless demon for you.
Magically flaying someone alive in the blink of an eye, and then completely incinerating them? That's epic hard core vengeance.
I only just noticed during this reaction that Warren is *still alive* after his skin is ripped off. He twitches occasionally. It was the burning that actually killed him.
This is why the Trio as big bads always made sense to me. Because despicable people like Warren really do exist. This is what is scary. This season hits hard.
I remember being a teenager and watching this as this episode was airing for the first time, and I remember how distressed I was waiting for the next week's episode. I couldn't stop thinking about this. This was the moment I realized this was not just any show, this was something special.
The trio was never the big bad of the season. Willow was from the beginning. This is a path she’s been on since restoring Angel’s soul. And Tara was right to be afraid last season.
I think bringing Buffy back, she crossed a line. And again playing with Tara’s memory. And all the shenanigans that followed after restoring Amy.
After hitting bottom, she came to her senses and tried to control herself.
The trio was just three little boys with delusions of grandeur. Then Warren triggered Willow, releasing the true big bad of the season.
There have been despicable humans in this show before. But being the Big Bad doesn't usually mean just killing someone by accident or being defeated a few episodes before the finale. Let's face it, Adam's defeat was really the climax of season 4 instead of "Restless".
I agree 👍 I never understood the hate for the trio cos it reminds us that there are still bad ppl in the world who are not technically monsters, just bad ppl and they end up causing more damage to the scoobies than any demon or vampire ever did! ❤❤❤ XxXxX
@@kirstiebriggs3068 If Ethan Rayne was the Big Bad of this season, no one would hate that despite him being human. The trios are presented as just pathetic, and even in this episode, they're at everyone's mercy. Tara's death didn't make the other characters take them any more seriously. What is being taken seriously is Dark Willow, the true Big Bad of season 6.
“Bored now”. Iconic.
I love Dark Willow honestly
I'm all for her having her own show (and vamp willow living a little longer)
The general feeling that most reactors experience while watching this episode is anger. As opposed to say Jenny's death, the show really doesn't give the characters any time to mourn Tara. Even Dawn's mourning was mostly done off-screen. Hence, it feels as if Tara was just disposed off so that the viewers could get excited about Dark Willow's vengeance. Also, it's a strange thing that Dawn was able to do a spell for Joyce to almost come back (albeit supposedly "wrong") while Willow was outright refused. I feel like the show could've provided Amber Benson much more to do w/ that concept.
I mean, Willow was doing a spell to ask the god of the underworld to bring a person back, Dawn just went to some shady demon guy and got a random spell to reanimate a corpse. The difference between the ritual they did at the start of this season and the little spell Dawn did is quite large.
@@datboi04 I don't recall anyone saying that it's just a corpse reanimation. I believe they merely said that she may come back wrong. Which Buffy also kinda did since the chip doesn't work for her anymore.
About spike. Dont forget that when Dru dumped him his idea to get her back was tying her up and torturing her till she liked him again. At the time a funny joke between two soulless vampires that would enjoy that, but now he was with a regular human
And that regular human wasn’t reciprocating in the attack. Was actively struggling against him. Pushing him off of her. Not enjoying the “dance”. Which is why it feels so out of character for Spike to attempt to rape/sexually assault her. There’s no thrill in it for him if the other person isn’t reciprocating.
@@Girl4Music the whole thing about kidnaping Dru show there is. And in that scene he kept saying she wanted him cause he is used by this point to ignore her "no". Almost every scene between them starts with Buffy saying no and him convincing her.
@@AnatoleVGC yes, and again, she reciprocated. She kisses him back, she abuses him back. It’s a mutual dance that they share. With Dru too.
He isn’t interested if it isn’t. It would throw him off big time to realize through his white hot searing passion that Buffy isn’t reciprocating. And he does eventually realize it. Just far too late. After she has to physically throw him off of her. Something immediately clicks for him then and there and he is horrified by what he has just done. Tried to do. And his response is to do something that ONCE AGAIN contradicts the apparent “issue” that there is here. That he is soulless. That he is an evil thing.
That’s what doesn’t make sense about this entire situation. If he was really the monster this scene shows him to be, his immediate reaction shouldn’t be horror and disgust. And his response to it shouldn’t be to feel so guilty that he goes and puts himself through the ringer to fight for his soul back. The reason why he has to is void if it’s something he can come to a decision to while he is soulless. It makes a statement that things can only happen when they happen - you can’t predict them. But other than that - what’s the point? If he is capable of ensouled action and free will when he is soulless - why does he need a soul? What’s it going to gain him that he already can’t evolve or grow into gaining? Hopefully you see what I mean now. I was trying to avoid spoilers for people that haven’t seen passed Season 6 yet. But I can’t possibly explain what I mean without acknowledging the fact that he fights for his soul and that that in itself is an inconsistency in the lore that they’re forcing down our throats with the SA.
It’s not a problem if they’re making the case that it’s because of his humanity - the human in him - why he does what he does to Buffy.
But they’re not doing that. They’re making the case for the opposite. Because he isn’t human. Because he doesn’t have a soul. And it doesn’t compute in a season where human ensouled entities do the exact same despicable things as he does. That are just as abusive and destructive as he is. But they don’t have the excuse of being soulless so - arguably - they’re much much worse. Willow and Warren are much much worse in this season. And it’s human flaw and faultiness why. That card isn’t played with Spike at all. On principle - he does the awful things he does to Buffy because he is an evil soulless thing. The writers give you that horrific R/SA situation because they want you to see that. Want to remind you that there’s no redemption for this character unless he has a soul. But then they have him fight for his soul back precisely because of it. 🤨🤷♀️
The one thing to note about truly evil entities is that they never realize that they’re evil. They can’t. They’re not able to realize this in themselves because they are actually evil and always will be. There’s an entire scene with Spike and Dawn in ‘Tough Love’ where Spike is capable of empathising with Dawn and stating to her that she can’t possibly be evil because he knows what evil really is. And the fact she can realize her capacity for it proves she isn’t. Therefore, him as well. You give the audience a scene like that and then give us a scene like this … I’m sorry but it doesn’t work.
I will never understand bathroom scene apologists, its so fucking creepy. Spike has shown since season 5 he knows what empathy, compassion and right and wrong is. Despite this, in S6 he revels in isolating Buffy and coercing her into degrading public sex acts. Being weird and obsessive has always been in his nature human or otherwise. The fact the show even tries to entertain Spuffy after this is fucking gruesome.
@@theprodigal understanding the scene doesnt mean I like it. Bathroom scene apologiest must be the dumbest thing I've read all day
"Bored Now"! I don't know if you know, but it was the first line said by Vampire Willow back in season 3
A call back to a beloved episode but also direct confirmation that Vampire Willow really was a soulless Willow
Here - as Dark Willow - Willow has a soul. And yet she is just as evil and sadistic. She is just as destructive.
So maybe she wasn’t losing her soul but she was quickly losing her humanity.
the emotional rollecoaster sophie goes this episode is wild
I laughed so hard when she said 'I hope you die miserably' about Warren!
I get goosebumps every time i see her take the bullet out of buffy and when it dissappears in her hand. Some awesome cinematography. The music...so incredible. Shes saving buffy but the music is absolutely terrifying, not comforting at all. Its 100% nefarious.
Joss wanted to kill off a character that was in the credits way back in the very first episode, when he wanted to include Jessie in the opening credits, but it was just too expensive with the slim budget they had back then. Amber Benson had also turned down being included in the opening credits before that, because there are obligations (along with higher pay) that go along with being a credited character. Although she appeared in pretty much every episode, she didn't want to be tied down to that obligation that could keep her from taking other parts.
Oh wow I never knew that about Amber not wanting to be in the credits/an official main character. Do you have a source for this? Not saying I don't believe you but I'd love to hear if Amber did an interview or something.
@@DanY-gx2dv its from an old interview that I can no longer find (the site have since long died) but the Q and A that is saved from it was this:
CH: I heard that when Buffy switched over from the WB Network to UPN that the people at UPN bought the whole cast lavish gifts. True or false?
AB: Well I chose not to be a series regular, so I don't get the gifts or the big salary. But I also have the ability to go out and do movies in the middle of the season, which is really nice. If you give your heart and soul to Buffy, then you give your heart and soul to Buffy. But I didn't want to be in that place because my real love is film.
I always assumed appearing in the main credits or not would be in the contract. Like the regulars are in it, and maybe Tara was still considered a recurring role. Because otherwise why exclude her?
@@MsMaggyW it is, on why Amber didn't want to be a regular we will never know, all we do know is that she didn't (from interviews with her). Basically appearing in the main credits are the equivalent of being full time employed, aka you get paid regardless of if you appear in an episode or not. If you are not in the main credits then you are an hour worker, only getting paid for the actual hours that you do appear in an episode.
Also, Willow’s outfit is in a previous episode this season (can’t remember exactly)… I thought it was clever to make it appear like it was in her actual wardrobe already, as I hate it when characters always have new clothes hahaha
It was 6x13 Dead Things. It's the scene where her and Xander run into Tara at the magic box. Coincidentally Buffy thought she killed Katrina that episode and here she is summoned by Willow. Possibly a foreshadowing.
"I wish upon him the worst death possible"
Well, how did you like it?
My gran went the same way. 😢
I figured the police were there for such a short time because it was Sunnydale, where so many people die under suspicious circumstances that the high school has its own obituary section.
The Sunnydale police hasn't been very professional around murders, so why should they bother now 😅 Giles was never a real suspect for Jenny's murder even though she died in his bed with what seemed to be no forced entry at the door. They didn't question anything about Ted coming back to life and seemingly just dropped the charges against Buffy. Buffy was also never again questioned about Kendra's death. Death doesn't seem to bother the SPD 😄
@@evatesche
i'm sure that has _nothing_ to do with the mayor who, in his supernaturally long life, founded sunnydale and its government and supervised their development all the way up until 1999.
23:05 I love how she volunteer to help Willow because even though they didn't get along, she still cares about her.
They’ve come along way indeed.
Dark Willow is such a great villain. 😈
its so senseless about what spike did but in a way it makes sense. In real life a lot of victims of SA knew their attacker and their attacker was someone they trusted ect. it makes it so much creepier because spike knew her since she was just a teenager... like a child and still tried to assault her. It also brings me back to season one when Xander also tried to SA Buffy in the pack episode. once again it was a male figure in her life, someone she knew, Someone who's adavnces she had rebuffed time and time again and was yet again attacked or punished for saying no.
Whedon said the reason they finally included Amber Benson in the opening credits for the previous episode was so no one would think Tara would die. He wanted to do the same thing with Jessie in the first two episodes from Season One to subvert audience's expectations
Also, I think it was some sort of homage to her, kinda like a goodbye to her and thanking her for all that she gave us.
Willow has now seen the darker side of Sears. Don't be underestimating some good tools and a flower dress!
The emotional journey Sofie went on this video is everything. I stan 🫡
I was in denial for the entire week before this episode aired. Refused to even participate in any online speculation about Tara's fate until it was ... confirmed 😢. But before ep 6x19 I remember being in a state of apprehension. There hadn't been a major death yet this season and I think I was bracing myself for one. That's why Amber being in the opening credits should have warned me. It's classic Joss-style sadism to give us what we want before taking it away.
This was how I felt a week before The Body aired......oh I'm still healing all these years later
5:21 Vengeance Demon : Wish granted.
It's okay. Clem's fine. I mean, he's dangerous to kittens (remember, we met him in the kitten poker scene many episodes ago), but he's harmless to humans. Strangely enough in the Whedonverse, there are multiple kinds of demons who are pretty harmless to humans.
And then there are humans that are extremely harmful to everything that moves. Even the core protagonists.
I love that the show blurs the lines.
Maybe he just wanted pet kittens
Clem is one of the more childish things the show has ever done. Well that and freeze rays and fucking jet packs. Having a world where some demons are just walking talking puppy dogs makes Buffy's job morally redundant.
Its also worth mentioning that James Marsters held permanent regret over the bathroom scene to this very day, and refuses to watch it on every rewatch hes ever made of the series. Oh....and dear god your face was priceless when Willow gave Osiris a magic-laden sonic scream 🤣
she fought against a great vampire, then with a vampire with whom she had a connection, then a demon, followed by a soldier with many demon parts, in season 5 a goddess, what followed after?, what could be more terrifying than a goddess? well... a real monster, a human with a soul. There are a lot of Warrens in real life and that's what makes me sad and scared.
Season six is ridiculously painful, way too real and all, but this final arc is SO good.
Each part will not only get better but resolidify the point of this whole season I can't wait until you watch the last part
It will make you feel your
Soul
I see what you did there
@@Girl4Music I try lol
warren is the epitome of a soulless man. in fact, willow just became his latest victim, turning into a witch copy of her vampire counterpart. as for buffy, she is one of the longest surviving slayers. with time comes experience, and sometimes - the wisdom!..
I love in the end when she says 'Bored now.' Just like Vamp Willow.
Glad to see this video. I was always afraid 'Seeing Red' would be your breaking point.
You have become one of my favorite reactors, because you really feel things. I can't wait to see your reactions to the next 4 Buffy episodes! Keep up the good work!
Joss put her in the credits because he'd always wanted to kill a character in the opening credits. He knew exactly what he was doing.
We actually don't know if he did that. This is all based on the DVD commentary for S01x01: "and we’re about to see Eric Balfour, their friend Jesse, who I originally wanted to put in the opening credits. Because I was going to kill him, and I thought that would shake people up, and really confuse them if I had someone who appeared to be a regular get killed right in the first episode. It just seemed too time-consuming and expensive to do two credit sequences, so we never got a chance to do it. I did end up doing it later on ‘Angel’, and it made everybody really angry. So perhaps it wasn’t such a good idea after all." and then people have constructed that he must have done it for this reason (and also that he did it, when he in fact did very little on S6) but notice that he already back in S1 of Angel contemplated that it wasn't such a great idea.
27:06 "Bored Now" is what the Vampire Willow said
"This show is so good at giving you what you want, and making you feel bad and regret it because you want it."
That, Miss Sophie, is one of Joss Whedon's philosophies. And it underpins one of the great - hated but loved, reviled but respected - things about this show. Didn't we try to warn you about not wanting anything too badly back in Season 2? Or maybe even Season 1? Join the rest of the brokenhearted Buffy Forever fans.
What human and understandable reaction on your part and what a great reaction! I must admit that I sometimes feel weird watching reactions to sad or shocking episodes, and sometimes I find it unhealthy of me, I feel like I'm trying to see if the person reacting is doing it the way I reacted. And yes, I cried a lot during Joyce's death and Tara's death, and I think it makes me feel good to know that there are people who are moved to tears by these series character deaths. And I know how difficult these moments are to bear when you are sensitive or hypersensitive. So, with all my heart, and even if you watched these episodes quite a while ago, lots of comfort for you Sofie, I hope that your pain was eased after Warren's death and after season 7. Season 6 is a season of raw emotion, which divides the fanbase but I think it is essential to the building of many human beings, especially those who experience the pangs of depression and self-scuttle.
As you say so well, Buffy offers the wisest decision because she knows the price to pay for murder (Faith), but from a broader point of view, she is the main heroine, she cannot convey negative message because the series is basically an initiatory series which accompanies the adolescent towards adulthood (or the adult towards greater wisdom? :p). This is why it is Xander and Dawn who can afford to express Warren's death. And it needs to be said, for the viewer to hear it, because revenge is a normal, primitive human reaction. And in the series it is never shown a single way or a simple voice, but diverse, because opinions are diverse and each can be legitimate and understandable.
Regarding the scene between Spike and Buffy in the previous episode, there is perhaps the desire to "deface the character" of James Master but undoubtedly also to depict so many toxic relationships with people who return to their torturer. I think the writers wanted to leave the sexual and emotional dependence in place for a long time before striking a strong blow with this scene as the breaking point. Certainly it was shocking, but it also allowed Buffy to definitively place certain limits that she had never managed to establish despite the hundreds of "no"s she said. I finish and I send you hugs ;)
Dang, Willow went full Pinhead from Hellraiser on Warren lol
the real mind bender: The actor that played Warren dated Amber Benson for 7 years after this.
Never realized until watching this reaction that the term "butt monkey" is a call back to S5/E1. Now on to serious stuff, this is a really upsetting but important episode. Back when this was made, there were not random shootings happening every day. But the line"I was going to eat you myself during the commercial" pretty much makes Warren understand his actual place in the universe. Dawn having to sit with the body of Tara brings back echos from "The Body" from Season 5. All that said, this is a really great and important episode for the series arc. But you'll see, I won't spoil!
"there were not random shootings happening every day" - depends on how you define random I guess, but while there where fewer shootings back in 2001 there where still 81 gun deaths per day in the US (in 2021 it had risen to 134).
Clem is harmless unless you're a kitten.
Lolllll I knew you were gonna lose it when you saw what she did to Warren
And now we have the main villain of season 6
Sofie "I really wish he dies in a horrible way"
VengeanceWhedon "Done"
I always thought the police didn’t stick around after taking Tara away because they already got all the information they needed. Buffy and Tara were both shot and I’m sure Xander filled them in on who did it.
Yes, though it's standard procedure to look for evidence, such as finding stray bullets, shell casings, and looking for the murder weapon and checking fingerprints to pin the murderer in trial
Love how dark willow summoned and injured Osiris without the aid of the urn or ritual. She just forced him to appear
" Bored now" was a great call-back to vampy-Willow. It also illustrated something else. It showed how much of Vamp-Willow WAS actually Willow too. The hidden, darker impulses that she didn't dare to indulge in as 'Normal-geeky Willow' , but still were there, maybe even festering, waiting to come out.A true ' Inner Demon' so to speak.
One of the funniest and frankly most interesting moments in all of ‘Dopplegangland” to me is when Anya is like “When I get my powers back, you will all grovel before me” and both Willow and Vampire Willow are like “Pssht, sure we will honey” in unison.
It’s like, not only does it show us that Willow and Vampire Willow are more alike than they think but it also shows us that Willow was never afraid of Anya or was ever willing to put up with her shit demon or not. Like some part of her already knew that Anya would never be a threat to her because she felt no fear of her.
Which goes back to the way Anya viewed Willow. Not scared of her exactly but wary of her. She knew Willow was capable of becoming a vengeance demon and that even if she did get her own powers back - she’d still have no chance against her because Willow was just in a league of her own when she let herself go.
Of course Anya had no idea then of just how powerful Willow could become if the dark side ever took over. But it’s almost like Anya witnessed Willow’s potentiality right from the beginnings of it being used. And honestly, more people should be talking about their relationship dynamic because there’s a lot there.
Anya actually called it back in 6x10 when Willow was going off the rails. She spoke of how people like Willow who were goody goody for the majority of their lives were dangerously unprepared to handle the bad elements (magic) and once they got a taste for it, they couldn't control it leading to huge messes. Xander and Buffy dismissed her but Anya was spot on.
It makes sense though that she was the one to spot it. She spent thousands of years getting into people's heads and manipulating them to create wishes so she knows the tells and triggers.
I wished they explored this side of Anya more.
@@nickk1424 Oh me too, my friend. Me too.
The purest characters are always the most susceptible to darkness or to turning dark because they’ve never encountered how powerful and intoxicating that darkness can be before. So they’re not able to overcome it until they have encountered it. They will fall into its enticing thrall like a moth to a flame.
Power corruption is a massive theme for characters like Willow, Warren, Faith and yes, even Anya - even though we don’t get to see it much. And it’s a very human and relatable theme because of just how accurate and realistic it is to be attracted to power and control. To become addicted to it. I think what a lot of people don’t like about Willow’s arc this season with magic addiction is the fact that it’s specifically about the use of magic. But as far as I’m concerned - they’re missing the point. Magic is a very potent energy and it’s what imbues the caster with that power and control that makes them think they’re on top of the world when they’re actually rapidly approaching rock bottom. It’s extremely accurate even if the metaphor is heavy-handed so I don’t mind it at all. I think they do very well with the theme of addiction compared to some of the other so-called representation I’ve seen for it in TV art/entertainment. The main point of “power corrupts” is covered well I believe.
Funny thing is, Adam Busch (Warren) and Amber Benson (Tara) dated for the better part of a decade starting a little bit before this episode. Presumably, he's nothing like Warren!😀😀
I've always pictures season 6 as the "realest" BTVS season. It all started all the way back to season 5.
But this one is different since your big bad is not a demon or vampire. Just normal people.
Also I loooove seeing Clem. I say it because I don't see anybody mentioning him in the comment section and it makes me feel sad. He deserves so much love ❤
Your face at the end XDDD that was mine the first time it aired ! XD I was chockeeeeeed
I look at it as he wanted to have her in there at least once since she was an important part of the show.
I mean, she was, don't get me wrong, but also, Joss did say he wanted to do a move like that since the beginning. Like, in the very first episode, Xander's friend, I think his name was Jesse? The dude that got turned into a vampire and that Xander basically staked by accident? Anyway, that dude was supposed to be in the credit in the beginning, only to be killed this early. They couldn't do it back then, so they did it now instead.
Deserves to be said - Adam Busch is incredible in this episode. Watching him come to slow motion grips with his own irrelevance is fantastic
Everybody pays so much attention to Willow’s monologue in ‘Villains’ that they completely miss Warren’s monologue in one last attempt to survive.
WARREN: “Please! God! I did wrong, I see that now. I need, I need jail! I need... But you, you don't want this. You're, you're not a bad person. Not like me. Oh, and when you get caught, you'll lose them too. Your friends. You don't want that. I know you're in pain, but-“
WILLOW: “Bored now.”
Obviously it’s a weak attempt to save his life. To get her to to stop. He wasn’t being sincere and Willow knew that. But still… the weight of what is said is significant. He is basically telling her that she’ll become just like him if she does kill him. She’ll become the villain. Now think back to ‘Flooded’.
GILES: “Oh, there are others in this world who can do what you did. You just don't want to meet them.”
WILLOW: “No, probably not, but... well, they're the bad guys. I'm not a bad guy.”
It’s an important philosophical question I come back to over and over again. Is it right to kill? If it is, when is it? If it’s not, does doing so make you a bad guy or is it just that you did a bad thing? Or doesn’t it matter ‘cause your actions and choices are what make you what you are anyway? I have never answered this question and therefore it has never quite left my mind. It just keeps coming back to me like a boomerang. I’ve perused over this question or these set of questions since my first time watching ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and observing Gabrielle’s arc with becoming a warrior. I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of this subject.
And maybe that’s the point. I’m not meant to.
@@Girl4MusicI do think you can kill, even murder without becoming a bad person. Humans have been killing each other for thousands of years, many of them counted among the great heroes of history. I have sometimes thought that if I had the power, and the surety that I wouldn't face the consequences, I would be willing to murder a few rich, powerful people who I think are actively making the world worse.
@@Girl4Music For me it's as simple as this. Killing is always bad, unless it's in defence. But it doesn't make one a bad person. Whether you regret it or not, is what makes you a good or a bad person.
@@MsMaggyW and Willow never regrets it
This is the first video of yours i'm watching, and holy hell i loved your reaction to the whole thing.
This is always the episode I'm most excited for people to watch
10:07 "...and wish upon him the worst death possible."
27:08 Wish granted.
just when you recover from one episode you watch another one and get get shocked again lol
IMO Warren was the scariest villain on the show. Every thing he does can be done to some extent in the real world. Monsters like him exist that’s what makes him so scary
He's not the first of his kind in the show. Evil humans have been featured before in the Buffyverse. Only difference is that Warren brings a more science fiction approach. Even in this episode, no one takes him seriously. Hence, he's really not supposed to be scary. Sofie herself just thinks he's pathetic.
Because our minds can comprehend what is real and what is not.... the reason someone like Warren terrifies us the most because our minds detect that as a real threat... not the vampires or demons or necromancers. Warren is a very neutered showing of a real threat in real life... real life people like Warren are much more sadistic and do far much damage.
And thus the big bad is revealed: Dark Willow.
And we’ve had hints since the very start of the season. Why just didn’t want to see it.
I love about Season 6 is how it swings for the fences, even if it doesn't hit it out of the park. My favorite setup for the last 4-5 episodes the whole run of the show. Even if I don't care for the season finale.
Also, have always taken the putting of Benson in the opening credits as a tip of the hat. A send-off for a character that was probably going to die season 4 or 5, save for Amber's talent and appeal. Either way, what better way for an actress to leave a horror show than by dying horribly. Remembered, and still evoking emotions, decades later.
It's a weird coincidence (or is it) that Warren first showed up in the ep when Joyce died, and his last was when Tara died. Although Warren's robot April's last words are about to become important: It's always darkest before... (the dawn)
This is one of the saddest but greatest character ARCs. It's insane that, to this point, the three main characters that have passed in the Buffyverse have been Jenny (Angelus), but then Joyce and Tara were both victims of "natural" deaths. Such good writing.
You forgot Kendra tho
@@Brilleetoile Maybe I'm still in denial about that. It is criminal she never became a main character.
Indeed@@rootingbranches
Joyce's was the most natural, Tara's is involuntary manslaughter, Jenny's was straight up murder (he didn't even feed on her).
@@jp3813 That's what I find interesting! Jenny may of been killed by a vampire, but the way it was done could've easily been a regular human. No main character was killed in a Supernatural manner. Even Kendra wasn't fed on. A lot to unpack.
1:46 after Anyas and Xanders Wedding episode you said that Joss Whedon gives you hope for something and then instantly takes it away from you. and i instantly was thinking of Episode 19 ... yeah, he really is good in that :´( And all your thoughts on Buffy and Spike, wow! so good and important! so many people are discussing the importance of range, like when you have lots of followers, then you have kind of a responsibility for the things you say, you know? and many people watch your reactions and what i really much love so far is the way you call out on the characters bad behavior and analyse it. i am so impressed by the way you see toxic behavior in their relationships and in their behavior itself, yet still can empathize with them because there is not black and white most of the times. and you name them and you have reflected and good thoughts about them. and i think thats really important. thank you for that!
Think of it this way: Their plan was it to kill her off either way.
So they included her in the opening credits at least one time in order to honour her!
27:41 "Is Willow becoming the Ramsay Bolton of the show?" Lol, if you've seen Misfits, that's funny
Catharsis takes a while - when great art (Yes, BtVS is art) calls for it, it gives...
There’s nothing cathartic about the way Tara dies. The wound is still there. Viscerally. You don’t feel sadness. Just anger. Just pain.
They wanted to honour her character in her last episode. She never wanted to be part of the main cast. If you are credit as main cast (like Emma for example) then you are tied to the show and have to make this show your priority. Bcs she had other projects on her back, it was her desicion not to be credit as part of the main cast at all.
So in the end, it wasnt JW desicion.
About her sudden death. Amber didnt know it from the very beginning of this season and when she find out about it, josh promissed she isnt death, so it was somehow a surprise to her when they really killed her character off.
But after the fandom didnt liked his desicion (and there was a huge backlash) he tried twice to bring amber back and she regreted, bcs 1) toxic work place on buffy 2) she didnt trust Josh, since he broke his promisses multiple times and not only on her.
There is an interview or mutliple in which she speaks about the whole story.
Worth to read.
You're getting a lot of details wrong, there. You're talking about the interview from Evan Ross Katz's book that a lot of websites shared an excerpt of:
This is the first time I'm talking about this. I had had some issues with somebody on the show, and it had kind of come to a head as I was getting ready to leave. Leaving the show was sad because there are some of the crew and the writers and some of the cast that I just adore, but I had made my peace with that person and the show and I was done: 'I'm leaving everything in a good place. I don't need to come back.' And then all the s-t hit the fan and Joss realized he had messed up. I mean, this is a time when people are, like, sending faxes to that production office, like this was a big, horrible thing, and it was devastating to a lot of people.
And I think it hit Joss that he had made a mistake, that he had been short-sighted. I truly, for all of his faults and for all of the things about him that are frustrating, I don't think he ever meant to hurt the LGBTQ+ community. He just wasn't thinking. I can truly, from the bottom of my heart, say [that] this was nothing intentional. This was a thoughtless error. But I didn't want to come back. He really wanted me to come back and we just couldn't come to an agreement on it. And most of that was my schedule. I was gonna miss going to England, not being able to direct The Ghosts of Albion if I had said yes.
I didn't really trust what was going to happen to the character. I think that's something if you've talked to some other cast, people are like 'Yeah, I came back… and then he just did what he wanted. Even though he told me that he wasn't going to kill me in this way, he killed me in that way.' I just didn't feel super trusting of the situation. And I felt like people had already been really hurt by this. And I'm not the writer. I can't decide what's going to happen to this character. I don't have the reins. And so between the schedule, and not really having a hundred percent trust in what was going to happen and some other things, it just didn't work out.
-------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure who she was referring to that was killed off, maybe the actors that played Kendra, Mr. Trick, or Ben. But had her schedule lined up with the last stretch of Buffy episodes, we might have had that episode where Buffy wishes Tara back to life, as if she was never gone.
It makes perfect sense to put her in the credits. i guess you dont see it because you are angry, but that was brilliant. it totally makes the twist that much more out of the blue. you never see it coming.
Love the line Legendary Dark Warrior
All these years and this thought just occurred to me. We like Spike when he was actively trying to kill Buffy and the scoobies. Then we hate him for the SA???!!! 😂😂😂 then there are those who blame the writers for the assault. The older I get, the more I hate his character after s4 😂😂😂. Writers really tried to have their cake and eat it too with him.
Well said
Well said
Because that’s what Josh does. He wants to make it a surprise towards every dark turn. And about Spike. He has a chip holding him back of course he’s still evil if he didn’t have that chip he would be feeding off people. He was was abusive and displayed in different ways
Taking happiness away is a Joss Whedon thing is the THEME of Joss Whedon. You'd best remember that.... 😭😭😭😭😭😭
"he's not as evil as other evil vampires like for example Giles" - excuse me? 🤣
While I was looking forward to an episode breakdown, I totally get just wanting to jump into the next video.
also the entire season was built up to her abusing magic to become the big bad of the season. thats why the trio seemed like a weak "big bad"
It's an interesting parallel to season 2.
I adore your support of Willow's vengeance.
Jeff Kober who plays Rack was in the Buffy episode Helpless in the 3rd season. He played a psychotic Vampire who abducts Buffy's Mom. That forces a powerless Buffy to confront him to save her Mom's life.
I think Sophie noticed this the first time she saw Rack.
I took Amber Benson appearing in the opening credits as a nod to her and her character. I didn't see it as a cruel hoax. It was something she deserved but wasn't really in a position to get, as far as frequency of her appearances go. With time running out though they finally did it. Better late than never, as they say.
Yes, it gave her a nice little pay bump for her final episode as a goodbye present.
Josh is a dick several times to his fans. Cordelia gets impaled, cut to funeral and then Buffy and WiIlow walking by saying she is fine. On Firefly Kaley is dead... but she isn't and cut to the crew laughing their asses off. Amber Benson being in the credits is iconic to this day because of the plot development. This season in epic in the ways they pushed the envelope of network TV. Now if they could only put Spike on some kind of redemption arc...
The Trio has really gone on to become better villains in the last two decades. With the toxic parts of geek culture becoming more visible, and the rise of incels.
I was a teenage fan of the show back in the day. I can tell you Warren looked and felt like the kind of guy who would bring an automatic rifle to high school (or a gun to a show that doesn't take guns seriously). He embodied that fear in the american psyche immediately post-Columbine. He's just the worst.
I LOVE what you said about Warren and I agree. GREAT reaction!
Dark Willow reminds me of Black Lady from "Sailor Moon". there's a striking resemblance between those two shows
"I want him to die in a horrible way!"
Well... buckle upm then! :D
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16:30
I'm always a little surprised by Buffy's arguments during this dialogue. "The human world has its own rules" blabla... If I was in her shoes my biggest point would be "We have to stop Willow for her sake" - just like you said.
Joss planned having someone be in the opening credits to then just die since season one with Jessie but he had no budget to create two openers so this is why he did it with Tara.
I get it. It’s not Joss that’s cruel, it’s life. I’m sorry I know I I’ll get backlash for this. But this is true.
Well... Joss is also apparently sometimes cruel, but that's a separate issue.
@@tehcoolemu*often cruel
Life's cruel, but not sadistic like JW when he worked on this show.
Too true. This is how life is. The most dangerous people are the unpredictable ones we don't immediately see as a villain or a threat at all. But despite not having any powers in particular (natural ones at least) Warren embraced the nature of the dark side I'll say. Johnathon wasn't entirely there, and still clung to his highschool history with Buffy to aid in balancing their trio's anti-heroism from within. Andrew........is closeted and harbored a crush on Warren likely since they first met, and will follow him into the deepest hole in the earth if he could, so there's little to say on his contribution to this. All in all, this season held a great foundation to the "big bad", which many fans are still in debates over who exactly it was.
Joss Whedon gets off on feeling like a god. Bringing people to the brink of emotion is part of that. He's a brilliant writer, but he goes too far in too many areas.
Never underestimate Joss Whedon's capacity to emotionally eviscerate his audience with "dick moves". But we keep coming back. We just can't quit him.
What separates the heroes from the villains is the will to resist vengeance. Killing someone in the name of the one you love is never justice. Justice is about peace and harmony, vengeance is about making yourself feel better.
This is why Buffy will ALWAYS be the hero. Giles even said it once l, before killing Ben last year: “She’s a hero you see, she’s not like us.”
Damn straight. Heroes never kill for revenge.
Willow is now turning into the one ugly thing she is going after for murdering her love. The one thing Tara never wanted her to become…
Stay tuned…
As much as people hat Season Six, in many ways, it is the most responsible season of Buffy. For years, we have seen children playing with dark forces and escaping virtually unscathed. If you go back to the start of the season, you get the warnings from Giles and Spike - about playing with forces beyond them, and how there are always consequences. This season could be summed up in that word: "Consequences." You really aren't supposed to feel good about any of it. Too much magic can turn you dark, Spike is not a kitten, but a semi-tamed predator, power reveals who you truly are (Warren). The darkness inside of them should be feared just as much or more than any demon. It makes for a less enjoyable season, but ultimately more responsible in its message.
We all feel just a leetle bit better after this one.
This episode like the body was a hard watch i first saw it in the early 2000s what makes it harder is realising taras only family was the scoobies as her family abandoned her. Also i rememberd how important she was for the show for lgbt her words of wisdom she was like the mother of the group.
27:06 Now *that* is Water Cooler Vengeance!
Lloyd has a sketch of it on his wall.
The actor who plays WARREN used to date the actress who plays TARA.