More Green Knight vs Meta! Bretonnia vs Cathay - Total War War Warhammer 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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The more Brettonia the better. They saw such little play for awhile there that it’s refreshing to get to see them again.
The true Brettonian has given us a meta renaissance in these dark times
An elegant faction for a more civilized age.
@@DrDragun "Barbaric"
its just the dwellers below winning the games
@@tomatoesofdoom It's not, bretonnia has lots of good units. It's not a top tier faction by any means but it's not carried by dwellers below alone either, at all
@@heinz8233 I'm the kind of player who uses bret with no magic. Just classic medieval shit. But I would be a fool to play competitive without Fay or a Life Damsel... lmfao. They're literally the thing that would separate and allow you to compete in multi-player. So it is in fact the dwellers below doing the carrying here pretty much
ggwp. it's funny the one time you did use the lance formation you showcased one of its downsides, which is amplifying how hard cannons nuke your cavalry. But i agree it's stronger on the charge.
Some other y-tuber (enticity maybe?) pointed out that the formation isnt that good in most cases, since less knightmodels make contact on the charge, actually reducing the impact damage of the charge, while cav models get stuck more often when cycling out in lance formation, making it only viabel vs loose formation units like most archers.
@@Subjekt3 It does make punching through formations easier which has real advantages in dom. The higher CB can also be useful against large tarts and SEM's since you don't waste any of it. Certainly not something you always want to use but there are scenarios where it is very worthwhile.
@@Subjekt3 It was Battlesey. Vid has a clickbaity title (This Ability WILL Lose You The Battle!) but he does a good job explaining it.
Where is @enticity
Lance Formation does seem good, but it seemed to also make your cavalry more vulnerable to cannon shots. Easier to take out multiple models from the front due to there being more models lined up for the cannon shots to overpenetrate, ex. the regiment of renown that got chunked for ~50% life right in the opener.
Great game!
You should not use Lance Formation against cannons.
Mind games. Imagine cathay bringing jade lancers and nuking enemy foot squire line... that would be the irony incarnate
I thought exactly this, Turin just talked about how its really good and should be on, then it immediately resulted in his defenders of Fluer getting deleted because of the longer formation xD. Classic bad timing.
Fairly certain enticity even made a vid about it.
@@arc4830 Turin has to adjust to the fact that lance formation is not better in every situation. A top bret bret knows when and when not to use it.
The Korean player uses Lance formation and suddenly everyone starts using it lmao.
To Lance or not to Lance has been a debate since Warhammer 1. In my experience it seems Lance On is good for two things: finishing isolated units quicker like missiles or rear charging infantry that will break soon, and punching through units, like when disrupting the backline.
Lance Off still has great contact and will allow a lot more of your knights to retreat when cycle charging, which is particularly good for infantry you know you're not going to break on the charge. Additionally, it seems like more models get a wrap and engagement on things like monstrous infantry or even SEMs, so Lance Off can actually do more damage against these things despite the charge bonus.
All correct points, though I think it is worth noting that in dom punching through a unit is a lot more useful than in land battles where poor value trading with your cav can immediately end the game. Still not a 100% of the time ability given the negative impacts it has on charge impacts but now it's moved from "never use" to "sometimes use" which is nice.
Agreed, I will basically repeat what I said in another video but in my experience, Lance does better against moving or back-turned infantry than braced infantry. Against braced infantry, a normal charge seems more interesting, because of the number of models engaged. With all that said, I'm eager to see someone actually doing the testing for us, so that we can get our feeling confirmed.
For wrap around and surround you can always force move unit more forward then click to attack again.
actually SEMs were a very good target for lance formation in game 2, as you would surrond it anyway. Now I'm not sure, formations are more rigid.
Enticity put up a video showing why lance formation is bad -- would be interested to hear your thoughts on it. Great stuff though!
How old is it tho?
Brettonian infantry is no joke, especially when you put them next to a grail reliquae and a paladin or other leader
Would love to hear The true bretonnian point of vient regarding the grail reliquae
I li e this faction, I tend to take 1 reliquae in my starting-blocks army but its hard to see how much impact they actually bring to the table
@@ludoviccasteleyn6867 I am not a bretonnia main, I played mostly high elves, greenskins... and then bretonnia in wh2 multiplayer on ladder( so I am not a sweaty tourney player )
I think the grail reliquae just costs way too much for what it does. I would like it to be 200 or 300 gold.
PS
Unless something changed about lance formation, it is not worth the micro. Yes, you can break through lines of sword infantry easier( unless they have huge mass ) -> you can use it to reach backline. But charge bonus does not give ton of damage as you may think. Just test it in a custom battle and see for yourself
@@ludoviccasteleyn6867 Reliquaes are overcosted. Just as a comparison, corpse carts costs 300 and are pure support units. It has the benefit of being undead while vigour mortis is probably a better boon than icon of devotion, although admittedly undead are undead anyway so ITP doesn't matter.
Value gained from healing would be a good addition to the UI mod
Everyone: Uses Brettonian Cav like the Dothraki at winterfell, blames the faction, claims it’s not as great as Slaanesh.
The One True Brettonian: Uses Infantry first, then Cav, like they should.
Everyone: 😮
Ze lady wills it
Pierogi king is an amazing name and I couldn’t stop looking at it for the whole vid.
hey turin! tried out Florence+The Machine which you mentioned your wife loves in the last stream, and man is she right about her! her music absolutely rocks
Love the vids of you commenting your battles! I enjoy hearing your strategy throughout the game. Keep up the great content man!
The body penetration of those Cathay great cannons is insane, a volley of 8 cannon balls and your elite cavalry gets deleted
Turin hasn't figured out when to use and not to use lance formation. In that cases lance formation is worse because facing the cannons it means the shots can damage more models. In that case using a line formation would have reduced the damage taken.
The UI mod got a lot worse IMO as concerns showing the time remaining to win.
I get the intention changing from just number of seconds left into minutes and seconds. To spare people from converting time in their head. But, the main point of the timer was primarily to show which player would win first, assuming the status quo did not change. It was enough to just see who had the smaller number.
As soon as someone gets three-digit capture (which happens after few minutes as most), the four digits of minutes and seconds don't fit, and the text gets cut off. The mod either need to revert back to pure seconds shown, or decrease the size of the text.
I'm aware of this issue. I spot it on the first Turin's cast with the updated mod. The thing is, I tested changes on my config, and it was looking great. It's also working perfectly on Dahv's config. I fixed it (removed extra characters from the string) as soon as possible, but Turin has made many casts in advance with that 'broken' version of the mod.
Next time I'm gonna check changes on Turin's config too to be sure it's working as intended.
The lance formation is also much more vulnerable for canon fire and we can see it with the first cav unit. So i'm not so sure that this is right move.
Imagine in patch 2.2 they actually make it so that destroyed units can't be resummoned. VC and VC won't be able to just braindead throw chaff at you over and over, and we might see the resurgence of SEMS and blood knights like in TW2 as actualy breadwinner units.
I love Brettonia and think it would be awesome to include a "Robin Hood and Little Jon" type character hero, archers with armor piercing Bodkin arrows and introduce dismounted knights
I'm sure Brets will get their rightful place in the spotlight with a DLC and a possible Robin Hood-esque FLC.
@@sandercohen9712 I think it would be really neat for Bretonnia to get Brigand lords for campaign that can only lead peasants and other brigands but can do all the unchivalrous stuff nobles aren't allowed to do without hurting the chivalry of your faction.
Peasants followed by knights errant followed by veteran knights that just sweep the battlefield, questing for armor, realm for large. God that's great.
Unfortunately in a vacuum Foot Squires actually lose pretty handidly to Jade Warriors if they have harmony and trade pretty much evenly if they don't. Obviously in a battle the fight isnt going to always be without outside influence but Jade Warriors absolutely win that trade considering they are 200g cheaper.
In practice lance formation is a crap like Cathay formation atack that will loose you a game. There was video proofs about this. That's why top tier played don't use it
:(
What’s a good way of getting into multiplayer/ladder games? I’ve played total war games forever but I haven’t really explored multiplayer.
Turin, have you seen this video about lance formation? : th-cam.com/video/9f451zYRj4I/w-d-xo.html
I really liked having a pair of Questing Knights in the reinforcements, to seal the deal!
Lance formation is 'not' good. Theoretically, it should be an incredible tool, but realistically all that happens is that you charge into an enemy unit, your first five or so dudes get their charge attacks off and the rest of your unit blunders into themselves. If you spam path through the unit you're charging, then that is the only use as you might be able to punch through a unit spread too thin. It also makes you extremely vulnerable to artillery and missile fire, as shots tend to over or undershoot as the ai of missile units try to compensate for a moving target. The vertical nature of the lance formation allows arty shots to land more often.
I'm an old fan will watch no matter what but please is there any way for less numbers on the screen? dmg value and victory points are the only two I need (and supplies ofc)
It's only natural that the peasant rabble should sally forth first to receive the opponents cowardly arrows and blunt their blades with their bodies so that the noble knights might charge to glorious victory for the lady!
Hey Turin, how do you get the timer on the domination points? Is it an observer/replay mod?
There are damage output issues with lance formation. Less units can end up in melee and so damage goes way down. Lance formation needs a fix for consistency. I cant turn it on an off in the middle of micro either. So i just leave it off for consistancy
I will not lie, Cathay is my preferred human faction. But that was a clever tactic
bretonnia will be great only when CA fixes the damn color scheme
Just loving the variety and different builds, great work as always. DLC coming, new PVP maps, gonna be great!
The thumbnail: "Here is Greenyyyy..."😂
Love seeing the not french get some love. Keep it up turin.
Geaux Brets!! Beat those crappy Karen-thays
Bretonnia never really tickled my fancy, but this was excellent.
Would love to see a DLC for them with some more shrine/corpse cart units, old school war machines like ballistas and some Robin Hood style brigands. Tons of Lord and hero choices to pick from too...
Probably as part of a Red Duke dlc that adds new bret stuff with it
For zee lady!
chivalry lives!
I think that the Green Knight gets both the ethereal phys resistance and the Blessing of the Lady phys resistance which means he gets around 80% phys resistance IIRC
No. With the introduction of IE the GK base PR resistance got nerfed to 40 (was 55), with the blessing of the lady giving an extra 20%. Since he is unbreakable he'll never lose the blessing, since it's conditional (if a unit breaks, the blessing disappears and does not return) So his PR is 60% at all times. In Warhammer he had a base PR of 55 with the blessing adding another 20, giving him 75% in line with other ethereals like Carin Wraiths and so on. GK did get an extra 1000 health or so, but I don't know if that was part of ultra unit size becoming standardized or that was actually an intentional buff.
There are oversights though, like Hans Valhirsson, a Dwarf hero that can be brought in MP, still having 75% PR even though his health is atrocious. Still you couldn't bring him in MP before IE so it's more likely to be an oversight rather than an intentional thing. Still weird that they did give him full AP damage though.
What happened to terracotta sentinels? I hated seeing them in every match but I haven't seen any of them for a while now.
Poor capture weight, IE and longer domination battles means that they simply get shot off of points.
I like how you pay respect to The true Bretonnian
Its cool that you aknowledge how he managed to find a way to mâle bretonnians work
Love your work, keep it up bro!
You know, that's the great thing about this game. The meta can still evolve over a month after a patch, meanwhile in other games the meta is settled in a day or two.
Cool to hear about strats from the East
still need a full DLC!!!!!
Love seeing Brettonian might. Hope for a dlc with them and norsca together. Fitting due to their classes and proximity. Would also love to see some Greenskin love! I feel like they fell out of fashion and I would love to know fixes/army comps to cover their own butts. I can never do well with the orcs it seems, my favorite faction yet my weakest.
When the clarion call is sounded,
I will ride out and fight in the name of liege and Lady,
Whilst I draw breath the lands bequeathed
unto me will remain untainted by evil.
Honour is all. Chivalry is all
I think a lot of the hang-ups about lance formation are hangovers from the severe problems with charge and impact in TWH2. Since it has a thin point, it really relies on impact piercing into the enemy unit to get your models in base contact while the charge bonus is active. That's better now, but it used to be the case that like 4-5 models only would be in contact and it would take up to seven seconds for the rest to filter in, wasting most of the charge bonus.
I love this style of Brettonia! And it kinda feels and looks realistic: like you put the infantry first into battle to set the battlefield and then with your cavalry you pick your opponent into pieces like a surgeon.
The badges on the captured points are so helpful! You couldn't tell who had capped a point before.
This plus longer domination format makes this format a really good format to watch.
I think artillery may need a slight rebalance between being able to summon units to defend them and the high gold refund after ammo is spent make them a bit too strong. But overall domination has been trending in the right direction.
Yesssss, Monty Python has entered the chat! Can’t wait for Bretonnia to unlock its true potential!
Cathays Riverlands is the best colour scheme. I really hope we get a dragon LL for them.
Great play, thanks! Struggle to play them myself but you do show that you can actually do good with them,.
bretonnia also really shines with mounted yeomen, and suffers with too much range... i always bring 1 regular treb, no more than 2 archers for every 5 sheilded men at arms, and 2 mounted yeomen archers... the rest is heros lord special cav... also hide the skirmish cav and heros in the woods if u can
Lady protects even in these dark times
It is great see Brettonia, but I do wish we saw Grail Knights and Grail Guardians. The Questing Knights are cool and all, but it feels kinda sad to see them muscle out the more "elite" options in nearly all circumstances.
The way the game is balanced Questing Knights are often just better then Grail Knights/Guardians. Grail Knights are still good if you know you don't need armor piercing but Grail Guardians pretty much are just always worse then Questing Knights imo.
I love your content ❤
Koreans gotta be the top players in every game ever.
The saddest part of growing up is realising that you know who won by the start by whoever sent the replay in
That's definitely not true!
I think the lore really holds Bretonnia back. It's all knights or crappy peasants without much in between. They would be godly if they had access to something like Silverin Guard. A new siege weapon would be nice too (or maybe different firing modes for the trebuchet, like a cluster shot).
When Bretonnia was first released they were considered to be a faultless society, to the point that many fans felt like they did not fit into the grimdark setting of warhammer. Rather than striking some sort of balance, GW swung the pendulum in the complete opposite direction where peasants would probably be better off being ruled over by vampires. GW would have to retcon that and then add some new units to flesh out their roster a bit more. Because the lore on the relationship between nobles and peasants isn't grimdark or even comical, it's downright silly.
@@sandercohen9712 So Bretonnia is kind of like proto-Tau, except they got screwed even harder by the grimdark hammer after people complained