The cars of 2024 we are excited for! A conversation with Savagegeese
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Jack Holmes of @savagegeese sits down MotoMan at the @ChicagoAutoShow to discuss the cars coming in 2024 that they are excited to drive. As per usual, they go off topic to pontificate on the direction of the industry as well as discuss the challenging topic of an EV for the track.
#SavageGeese #Porsche718EV #HyundaiElantraN #HondaCivicHybrid #ToyotaLandCruiser
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When two LC500 drivers chat in a hotel lobby, extended mix.
When China comes in, no one will care about expensive cars.
"Apologize for Mark and make sure we don't go bankrupt" LOL!
Motoman I love these sit down convos you have with people. I would love to see this become a series
Yeap -- seems like a no-brainer!
I'm excited for a new Mazda6 with rear-wheel drive and a straight 6 up front. Please & Thank you Mr. Coleman.
6 wagon AWD
YESSSS@@springertube
Same here.
Me too regarding the wagon, but if they only make the sedan, that's okay too.
Top class youtubers united here 😀! Long time subscriber of both of your channels. Happy Easter guys!
I’m excited about trading in my Model 3 Performance for an Integra Type S. Picking it up next month. Never thought I would move back to gas, because I’ve loved the Tesla, but this could be my last chance to have a new generation daily driver with a manual. Whereas EV’s will likely be available for decades more to come. Plus I think the current Type S/Type R cars are going to be future classics that will hold their value well.
good move brother! I wish you loads of fun especially during the weekend drives!
If you can't own both, this sounds like a sound move -- for a car enthusiast! For anyone else -- it just sounds crazy! 😁 I'm struggling with the same sort of discussion -- but different. I want my wife to have an updated tech car, but I'm not wanting to give up her diesel SUV. I currently drive a VW ID4. Not a great road car -- in my opinion, but a great around town car -- absolutely great. We can share it when in town and can charge it each and every day (night) in our garage - perfect! Except when we BOTH head out of town. Her diesel can travel for nearly 700 miles on one fill-up. My ID4, theoretically, can go up to 250 miles on a single charge -- that's if one charges it to 100% (not recommended) and if conditions (weather, speed, etc) are ideal -- and if one were willing to take it all the way down to 0% charge -- not realistic with the current infrastructure for CCS charging! So, if 10-80% state-of-charge is what I'm working with and the 250 mile range promised by VW is true (and the conditions are such that 250 can be achieved), I have about 175 miles of range before I need to charge. I live in Katy , TX so that won't get me to Dallas or San Antonio and only just gets me to Austin -- if I don't have a headwind! Her old diesel would -- and back home -- on a single tank!!! And then some !!! It would actually get me there and back TWICE -- and then some! EVs are great in some situations, but they don't quite cover the same territory as ICE vehicle -- yet! I'm still waiting for (hoping for) that solid state battery. Then I will care a WHOLE lot less about the crippled EV charging infrastructure! Guess I have been -- and will always be -- a self-sufficient kinda guy!
Love these two guys...hardest working guys in the business.
Agree with Jack about the hybrid Civic. That with a sport suspension would be a great affordable daily. I also want to see an electric Mini or GTI. A nice electric hot hatch would definitely be of interest as powertrains get more boring and uniform. Give me something with great dynamics and a reasonable price.
Jack's corgi socks are adorable
I can't respect the car manufacturers complaining about the speed at which they need to develop affordable EV's. They actively lobbied against EV's for many years in both the EU and US instead of starting development on them. They could have and should have known they were inevitably coming. The ecology isn't concerned with the owners and their short-term profits.
Also; the Chinese government is putting plenty of subsidies into developing cheap electric cars to dominate the future EV market. So if they want to lose a lot of future market share, they should definitely 'take it easy by building more hybrids'.
The real discussion should be about how we can stop western society from being this shortsighted on these types of topics for so long.
Really interesting discussion and part of it was especially relevant to me. They spoke about the Macan going only EV, which is also the commitment here in Australia too. Based on this, I raced out to get an ICE Macan quickly while I could as an EV frightens me in too many ways. Range anxiety. Charging convenience (or inconvenience). Resale value. Etc. I know I'm only a single data point, but I don't really know anyone interested in purchasing an EV anytime soon and am concerned that the viable market for EVs has been met at about 8% in my country.
Glad to see a realistic discussion of EVs along with some of the limitations….limitations which most EV owners will not admit.
Another great discussion. Particularly enjoyed the frank discussion about the regulators and ICE propulsion's future viability.
For full EV build out we would have to mine copper at rates that are likely impossible in the time frames discussed.
I love both channels great content.I listened to both channel about not taking finance . I am going through a midlife crisis and I have bought my dream car it a 2018 Mercedes-Benz SLC 43 AMG it has only done 25.000 miles and cost £24.000 pounds paid cash.I live in Scotland and it is a fantastic car to drive.I love to drive up to Inverary stunning location.P.S all the best in the future with both channels 🤩
Good for you, brother. Seriously.
For 2024, I'm excited about any Porsche 911, and the Savage Goose Discord server upgrades.
Great conversation...I enjoy both the vehicle reviews you guys put out. Missed Mark though
Many next time. 👍🏻
I retire at the end of this year. We, like a large percentage of families, own multiple vehicles. I plan on getting an EV for daily (and in-state) driving, and an SUV for our frequent out of state trips. My EV choice keeps flip-flopping between a Tesla and a Hyundai Ionic 5. Our SUV will be a hybrid. Looking forward to the new model introductions.
Motoman could be more precise talking about California grid problems: the problems were in summer when everyone is using A/C, and the issues were at *peak times* in the afternoon. People charge EVs overnight when electricity is cheapest. There was no problem of supply of electricity at night. So the grid problems are really a theoretical point at this time
Mazda6, inline 6, wagon, no turbo please. If there was a car that was more or less like a camry trd in terms of size, handling, and engine performance but had rwd and a limited slip differential, it would pretty much be all I could ask for or need.
Yes please.
I'm very cautiously excited about the Prelude
Key point at 15:00 re: issue of government regulation of EV adoption. I re-listened to this twice, broadly applicable not just in the auto industry but mining, healthcare, finance...
Spyder RS reviews from both of you, please!
I don’t think this is the “twilight” of ICE. The residual values on electric cars is just so bad that I think you’d have to have more money than sense to buy them and the federal tax credit on leases won’t last forever.
agreed but over here its a good move to lease / buy a one year old good EV after the steep first hit. I would buy an ICE as a fun weekend car and a keeper though..
I’m particularly excited for more plug in hybrids that are good at their intended job of replacing gas usage with electric miles. Toyota can’t get more RAV4 plug ins made and that saddens me. I hope also Mazda offers a plug in version of the 3 since they have a shot at owning the premium compact market
As I am about to graduate from university, I hate the idea of getting into more debt. However, if a car like an S2K predecessor or balls to the wall Miata Spirit Racing were to come out I would likely end up getting one.
I know this is not a 2024 thing, but I am hoping 2025 at least, a GRMN Supra with a manual 🤞🏼.
I'm so excited for the Civic Hatchback Hybrid
What do either of you two gents think the future is for powertrains in HD pickups? That is the clearest use case where (current) BEV tech has a near zero chance of being adopted. The ramcharger/range extender model could possibly compete with the use case for current diesels, or maybe mature solid state batteries in the future. Any insights into what the truck big three are thinking of for this space?
If Ram can build it reliably (big if) the Ramcharger could be a game changer.
Actually for around the farm or local work trucks I think EV HD pickups could be a thing. The Cybertruck 3 motor has over 10,000 foot pounds of torque. Only problem is the range when towing isn't amazing.
Ty
Good stuff here
For 2024, I am most excited for the upcoming 4Runner.
@savagegeese, WRX TR or Elantra N?
I always forget about this guy.
I wish the original leaf had 100 miles of range.
The Crown Estate is very nice
CAFE ,aws and al show it was never about reducing emissions, for example, porsche was forced to use b igger engine because smaller one didnt meet emissions standard per its size... but it wouldve been lot better than bigger engine. media creates demand for certain types of cars. better car culture: i have driving fun to not be bored and non attentive partially for saftey reasons, i do it by trying to get max miles per gallon and not wearing out the tires by using them to slow down a lot . its like old school endurance racing at more relaxed pace(if you arnt in a rush to get to places quickly), you minimize need for pitstops for fuel tires lubricant etc. for example, you preserve momentum around turns instead and speeding up again, but dont loose traction. . you brake and steer minimally but steadily, build up momentum downhills and at optimal RPM and power level according to bfsc chart for the engine (electric motors also have this ) . you maintain speed that is less than roughly 50 mile per hour (if car is more aerodynamic, you can tolerate higher speed, but cutting through the wind becomes exponentially less efficient as you increase speed linearly).
although climate crisis politics is obviously led by people who dont care about it. for example CAFE laws tax length and width but not height, by limiting how much emissions per size the car is to be, which is bad for aerodynamics and preserving momentum around turns , which is more efficient than using regenerative braking and such regen brake systems last longer as a result.
.but minimizing chemicals toxicity affecting food supply and sustainability of the buisness model of car design, are good reasons to do this if the money savings means nothing to you.
t weight is less safe t to people outside the car involved in crash, and unsafe to people inside car unless its more expensively built. weight exponentially worsens road longveity before repairs are needed, causing emission , monetary costs too, etc. not necessary: drive.google.com/file/d/1EG0dKAd3yuIRnND73W80v5i4CNe-EOzA/view?pli=1 pavementinteractive.org/reference-desk/design/design-parameters/equivalent-single-axle-load/
i think electric asited turbo on hybrid better than ev because: if you wanna lower emissions as long as possible as mass scale (probably should) , you use a mix of combustion of non fully recyclable and currently rarely ever recycled, battery mass. whatever mix lasts longest. weight is less safe t to people outside the car involved in crash, and unsafe to people inside car unless its more expensively built. weight exponentially worsens road longveity before repairs are needed, causing emission , monetary costs too, etc. it also worsens tire dust emissions and brake dust emissions exponentially: drive.google.com/file/d/1EG0dKAd3yuIRnND73W80v5i4CNe-EOzA/view?pli=1 pavementinteractive.org/reference-desk/design/design-parameters/equivalent-single-axle-load/ magnetic reversal news , tony heller, tom nelson www.corbettreport.com/ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9566750/ www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220513-ea.html#:~:text=Emissions%20Analytics%E2%80%99%20results%20suggest%20around%2011%%20of%20the,more%20than%20400%20times%20higher%20than%20tailpipe%20emissions. natural rubber and better brake metal can minimize problem to some bodily crash saftey improved by strong lower end of car jumping to level with incoming cars, especially taller sitting and bigger cars, to minimize damages. audi a8 does ths but maybe it should be cmbustion based like seatbelt explosives, to minimize weight. rearseatfacing rear (figure out why im saying this, and youll deserve knowing it )can you just take off electric power sit steering motor and use it as manual steering on new cars? or have a switch for that if you wanna share car or sell it. electric turbo kit and anti power steering kit and hub motor hybridization kit and big tinted heads up display kit would sell a lot in aftermarket
Fire-resistant LFP (aka LiFePo) utilize much less toxic heavy and rare earth metals, but their energy density (thus range) is halved (or weight doubled) compared to the fire-hazard NCM lithium batteries. Fire fighters and others are stating they are not being allowed to speak out on the fact that fires are being underreported. NCM batteries lead to vapor explosions which can hurl shards of concrete 30 meters and take out an entire parking lot, c.f. Prof. PAUL CHRISTENSEN Electric Vehicle Battery Fires. most the fun in not driving for efficiency is saving yourself from danger while being near it, more power will only make that game more challenging, which almost no one will ever make use of beyond 50k USD of todays cars. you can have similar feeling of urgency from trying to drive efficiently more perfectly. its fun even when roads arnt open : its more fun to drive efficiently because you have to be constantly predicting how much momentum and throttle and steering you need for perfection, its not just "as long as i dont crash im ok " . driving efficiently is to speed more on the more downhills like roads at the most efficient RPM and fuel level, you speed at aerodynamically non effceint speed before uphills, preserve momentum around turns instead of slowing down a lot as much as you can, steer and brake steadily
Jack needs to think more strategically. ICEs need not run on a petroleum based product. Think bigger about what fuels can be developed.
Thank *heaven* Porsche is keeping the ICE version of the Macan (and other models) along side of the EV version. I think the EV Macan looks terrible compared to the ICE version.
Both of these guy are kind of gregarious and I'm more curmudgeonly like that other bald guy, Mark. But always like listening to a good talker (or 2). Keep up the good work guys! America has too many open "fly over" zones for current EV tech and likely next generation batteries too. I suspect hybrids are going to be around for at least 15 more years. PHEVs are a great way to get the vast majority of miles driven each day everywhere as EV miles. Toyota is so right on this and I applaud them for having the conjones to drag their feet on pure EV adoption. The con of the Prologue is the Ultium battery pack going forward. And its an orphan, so that too.
Mark as Eeyore!? Anyone remember ...bowski (whatever his name was) Was painful to watch him. Thank god for "monkeyboy".
The introduction of Chinese EVs will be the game changer like it or not. Its all about cost in debt ridden American society. There most certainly WILL be luxury vehicles in the 35k range once the takeover begins.
They rushed the GM EVs and they've had nothing but bugs. Basically don't buy GM until a few years after they get their hybrids out. AND THAT"S FROM A GM GUY......
I think you are wrong. I think EV is going through growing pains, bad growing pains, but it is going to happen, whether you like it or not. It is going to happen. You motor journalists are not going to change what is going to change. Florida is about to legalize marijuana. GERMANY just legalized marijuana. Could you imagine that 10 years ago? Exactly.
Not exited for anything due to obscene prices for anything interesting
Honestly, M? The only cars I'm excited for this year are the Ferrari 812's successor and the V16 Bugatti.
Both of them are wwwwaaaaayyy out of my league (& a Pagani >> Bugatti), but everything else is a glorified appliance or got hit with the ugly stick.
Time to learn n how to pronounce Giugiaro correctlyo
Car companies make a car 1000 miles range on batteries and you have a golden ticket. Bet ev will sell like hot cake. People don't want to deal with charging and it will be easier on the electric grid over time. What's the point of having engineers that can't make things happen car makers hire new engineers that have passion to make a difference. Battery technology needs to improve.
Not excited about any cars coming out.. they're just too expensive.. Rivian R3 looks excellent but they've got some hurdles to overcome with factory conditions, money, software, etc..
"Cars of 2024" Thumbnail of a car definitely NOT coming in 2024 (and possibly never)
There isn't an EV created or in development that I could ever see myself getting excited for - they are all the same boring, heavy, disposable junk. And I even gave it a shot, owned a Taycan and a Mach E GT. And as a 911 owner active in the Porsche community, literally nobody is excited for the 718 EV and dealers have no wait lists, it will flop and to make matters worse they even put the plug on the rear bumper aka BUTT PLUG.
That's some silly cultural assumption nonsense.
"disposable junk" Like the Prius the cheaper ones will become cockroaches that outstay their welcome because they just won't die. Reality is much more of downer than your dramatic assumption.
@@Neojhun The Prius can and will be cheap to fix and keep for many years. It may not be your cup of tea but I wouldn't consider it disposable. In terms of EVs, I assume they'll eventually fix the battery cost issue or move to hydrogen, or both to make them non disposable. They're just not there now.
Prius is a hybrid and the ICE will offset the mileage loss as the battery performance degrades.
I think at right price that idea would change for a lot of people
My question is what car brands fail this next year! Rivian, Infinity, ford, try not to laugh but I am serious when companies fail and lose billions of dollars and keep missing targets and blaming someone else, at some point the bills will get paid or not! The losses Ford is taking om F150 Lighting are an example. Now Mustang GT EV is gone and its owners or Ford if it a lease will take hits !
Vote for potato again and it will be. Vote accordingly.
Moto it's your show man, but do you have to do all the talking?
A: yes. as you wisely pointed out it technically IS his show (ie, he's the Greek Johnny Carson/Jay Leno/Jimmy Fallon🤙).
I'm excited for the new LFA. Glad they got rid of that obnoxious ICE noise...
Maybe the Japanese analog of Hans Zimmer will debut their masterpiece for the LFA soundtrack.
I dont want an EV! Time to vote these clowns out. The Canadian zero emmissions mandate does not even include hybrids. Only EV and phev.
13:00 Toyota is about to be experience from China what Detroit experienced from Japan in the 70's and 80's.
It feels nice and reassuring to say that things won't change.
Denial, first stage of grief.
Ahh soo Jack is Chief Damage Control Officer.
😂
Two of the BEST talking in plain language about what they and we love! You just cannot get better journalism than this!!!
I am looking forward to Mazda’s 6 cylinder rwd platform to make it into a sedan/wagon. Major bonus points if it has 3 peddles, but I know that’s a pipe dream.
I am excited about the Bentley over Jack’s right shoulder. Not happening, but excited.
Love these chats between Motoman, Goose and B58.
I can’t be bought. I buy what I want regardless of msrp or adm etc
Great conversation, although he'd be alttle too hyper I'd love to motoman, savage geese and Jason Camisa have more conversations like this video
Make the Civic hatchback an actual hatchback again, ie long roof / shooting brake form. Ditto the Integra (admittedly never was a long roof, but with the large-ish sedan look just doesn't do it).. Actually, any number of cars including the Accord, Camry, Etc, long roof / wagon format. If everybody has said the sedan is dead, why do they keep on making them in that format? Already mentioned elsewhere, Mazda 6 wagon / long roof.
Like Moto Man, I'm most interested in the Crown Signia. I wish Toyota would bring the real Crown sedan and the Crown Sport, but alas, the existing Crown has been all that we've gotten so far (until the Signia). The first USA Crown (i.e., the 2023) is the least appealing and it shows in the heavy discounts available on it. What a weird product. Evidence that Japanese management doesn't really understand what Americans want in the Crown.
Like Jack, I wasn’t all that excited for the Stingray, but I’m interested to see what the next ZR1 will be to see where GM can take the C8 platform.
Love both you guys, great discussion.
Agree the GM engineering teams are some of the best, but their leadership is questionable at best.
Got to say it and leftist politics aside, some of the best cutting edge engineering is happening over at Tesla these days. The iPhone of EVs and leader of analog to digital transformation. Looking forward to seeing their mass market refreshed model y. Also their upcoming Porsche killer Roadster.
Hell yeah two of my favorite car journalists!
Love both interviews. Appreciate the insights, cheers!
The Lexus RX & NX are horrible to drive. Was going to buy 1 of them for my wife recently but the driving dynamics on both were trash. Somehow they made 275hp feel less than 228hp competitor's offerings & somehow they made an 8-speed Auto feel like a CVT. Couldn't believe how bad they were. Oh, then there's no way to put a spare tire under the baggage area for those of us that despise running run-flat tires.
Battery technology simply isn’t there yet in terms of cost and power density to make EVs everyone’s default vehicle choice. I am confident the technology _will_ get there by the middle of the next decade. Until then though, EVs will continue to be a niche segment of the market.
These current EVs (except, arguably, Tesla) are all "Compliance Cars" and in another decade we'll all laugh at them. Or if we own one, maybe we'll cry instead.
I love Mark!! My name is Mark!! If China comes in, you will see VERY LOW PRICES. It will change the entire US market.
I might be in the minority of this SUV craze but I would like to see more wagons or lift back sedans.
Bummer that most cares they talk about are out of reach for the average household.
Rivian r3x
I'm not excited about any new cars for 2024. I don't think it's a good idea to buy the last or first of anything. I do think that both EV and ICE cars need to go on Ozempic.
What’s wrong with last? I agree about first. Cheers
@@silver545454 I may be wrong, but I think that if/when we transition from ICE, many parts suppliers will not survive on the lower volumes.
Otherwise, yes, last is better than first.
RWD Mazda6
Infrastructure is a quilted patchwork much like fuel but with a variety of “pumps” that should run wide open at 3 clicks and often are hindered to be much like the one click units if we are to use the gas pump analogy so currently it’s not good. For our daily; 90% of all energy is added at home while we sleep at a far less rate than mentioned above. Press cars don’t see that experience so I get the skewed perspective even of short term use. The sparseness of the aforementioned quilted patch work for EV charging isn’t as dense or plentiful enough to overcome its shortcomings. What I’m looking for in the short term is when the transition to J3400 inlet takes place on the 800V class cars out of South Korea, Germany and Arizona; will they have capitulate to the high current Ol’ timers 400V EV’s and that opening network limed on voltage or will they charge as fast if not faster that our leased 2023 IONIQ 5 and its superior 800V class low current, rocketing fast charge speeds? Will IONNA add significant additional, any voltage capable, in abundance of locations, charge locations to that quilted charging patchwork to improve it enough to make it reliable and effortless transportation for that 10% or our charging use case? Hopefully the IONIQ 6 has a major revision (it can only help) and has an increased range to keep me in this cheaper to operate mode of transportation. 32:47
H2 infrastructure in the US is now being developed as part of recently passed legislation, and it should have a dramatic impact on long haul trucking and rail. Once the foundation has been established over the next decade, consumers may find they want to use the refueling network. At this point it is impossible to say how significant the H2 market segment will be, but if it can solve the energy distribution challenge, H2 EVs could dominate the market, even though they are inherently a bit less efficient than BEVs. H2 technology continues to improve, and we may see solid state storage make it to the mass market within the decade. Fuel cells continue to improve in power density and durability, and high costs might be partially addressed with PGM-free (platinum group metals) membranes.
Internal combustion vehicles may still use carbon-neutral fuel to be environmentally friendly, but this is not likely to materialize at the same scale due to cost and environmental impact.
Decarbonizing transportation has to happen as a matter of survival for civilization, but to be successful at scale, it needs to provide capabilities in line with current technology.
I don't need chit/chat, I need cars lifted up, and critique the brakes/suspensions/transmissions. If you want to be "ahead of the curve" I'd start focusing on EVs, and all the crazy things involved with EVs.
Until new cars are designed by people without cataracts both inside and out and beauty returns and are priced reasonably, why would any of us be excited about new cars again?
I can’t say excited, but more curious about the Tesla Model 3 Ludicrous with Recaro type sport seats as an around town fun daily.
18:34 - ref: Statler and Waldorf.
GM isn’t a good example for EV rollout. They’ve completely screwed it up and basically have nothing on the road.
Y’all as the muppet hecklers. Now I’m smiling.
I'm excited for the prelude,
The new VW Passat PHEV in the US.
Jack hit the nail on the head re: long distance EV range. drastic weather and topography changes will definitely REDUCE mileage.
EV’s are great for golf carts because you’re zipping around from shot to shot and you’re traveling very short distances, similarly thats why EV’s are great for in city local short distances, that’s where it ends. range anxiety is definitely one reason why i would never own an EV
The coming 718 EV is why I just ordered a 718 GTS 4.0 manual to add to the garage.
Legacy automakers can't make EVs in time for mandates? Too bad. Plenty of EV companies like BYD and Tesla will be glad to fill the void. Do we mourn Kodak? Blackberry? Compete or die.
BYD is a china company. hopefully huge tariffs keep out china junk. do you think everyone needing china car parts isn't a national security concern? if they spy in tik tok, you don't think they will keep your driving habits stored? 2027 does not give any company enough time to develop properly unless you want the consumer reports reliability rating of 18 in every single car. plus the electric grid would have to increase 30%.