How rising car prices impact how we review them. A conversation with Savagegeese
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2024
- Closing out our miniseries with @savagegeese at the @ChicagoAutoShow, both Mark & Jack join MotoMan to discuss how the automotive industry has changed over the years since they started shooting cars. In their usual style, the conversation meanders into economics and how they impact the car world - and their respective shows - moving forward.
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Review a 10 yr old used car. That would be interesting and applicable to middle class families.
This is the thing. How well does a car age? I own two Toyotas, a 2004 and a 2010. Bought new and carefully maintained. Still going. Well worth it. The new stuff with the turbos, not so sure about durability.
Yup
Great idea! Please though, a properly maintained 10 year old car.
Uh. RCR.
Great idea. Especially some of the really unique cars that were outside the norm for the makers. Like the original BMW i program when Richard Kim was designer
I wish more reviewers spoke about how overpriced everything is, but I understand that when your income relies on good relationships with car manufacturers, it’s difficult to challenge them. But man is it frustrating
It's you you can't afford nothing build a go cart
@@pennypinchhomefinder7887dude stfu plenty of people here that make more than you guaranteed. Are you this unpleasant in real life too?
@@pennypinchhomefinder7887 if you like car manufacturers bending you over, don’t ask for lube
I think Savagegeese niche is perfect for them, nobody else offers deep insigh behind-the-scenes interviews with engineers. That's why I watch them.
Julian Edgar and care care nut and L2SFBC - Robert Pepper - auto journo
that might get monotonous over time, look at top gear.
@@gyzfr6They are funny so it will be fine
@@ouch9326 Car Care Nut tends to go over the specs of the car, nor necessarily its development and people.
yup, everyone else acts like teenagers its pathetic
When car prices are this high relative to income…you have to stay grounded and realistic. This is why I appreciate Savagegeese’s channel so much.
When it comes to car reviews, I generally lose interest when they start talking about cars over $150k-$200k. Not that I could remotely afford a car that costs even $80k, but I'm just not impressed that a company can turn out a high performance car for $400k+. Well, yeah, it costs as much as a lot of private planes and yachts. I am much more impressed when engineers produce cars that punch above their price point and are attainable without being filthy rich.
I am too. I'm as impressed by a well-engineered Accord or Camry as I am a Bentley or Ferrari. Maybe more in some ways
Same here, not a car snob, i like things i may buy...i really don't watch the high end stuff, seems like a waste of money to me...But i still love cars!
over 50k makes my eyes glaze over, and I could stretch my budget and afford a 60k car, I just have enough common sense to not want to do so.
This is what makes the Honda Civic Type R god tier.
@@robertt8654 lol. you don't get out much do ya pal?
I’m a single guy making over 100k a year with a modest mortgage. I love the automotive space but have no desire to get into big money borrowing to drive the latest and greatest, there’s just no value. I’ve got 290000 kms on my 2016 F150 and I’ll replace the engine before I get into payments again.
A 10 year older or more car can be just as thrilling to drive as a new one but at the fraction of the price. Let the rich and suckers eat the depreciation for us normal people
Agreed. I own a very clean 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo. I bought it two years ago for the price of a base Mustang GT. Yes, the maintenance can be more expensive but I try to plan ahead and do some myself.
No I am not wealthy. I am retired and work a part time job.
You start to become a real car guy when you stop drooling over the new Ferraris and start drooling over clean shitboxes with 250k miles
@@Jupiterider1You're living the dream. A used 996 turbo is better than any new supercar on sale imo. Maybe a 911 ST or GT car, but besides that, early 2000s are gonna be the best for feel/modernity balance.
Who drives an F150 and uses kilometers? This is really weird I don't like it. 😂
Podcast? You 3 are the only ones going deep in discussion on industry news and personal aspects of car enthusiasm and car buying.
I have also loved cars, racing, modifying them, going to shows, but man inflation and greed has absolutely killed it for me. Trying to raise 3 kids, and just live will always be my #1
In my forties I finally feel like I make enough to buy a new car, but I just can’t swallow new-car prices.
Guess I’ll just keep modding my old rig.
I literally just want a camry trd with a lsd and a v6. Or a 2wd frontier with a locking rear diff. That is how little I care about the future of the automotive industry or the car hobby as a whole. I am ready to check out. The prices of even mass market cars makes it impossible to aspire to ownership of cool cars, and all of what are put forward as cool cars do not inspire anything approaching enthusiasm for me anymore.
Getting the next new car in 3 or 4 years was always motivation for me. With rising costs of everything I am now 6 or 7 years away for my next new car
Just buy slightly used cars and you can keep your 3-4 years.
Same.
@@markus8484Slightly used cars are priced at the moment too close to new cars to make them worthwhile. Add in the higher cost to borrow of used cars and new right now is the better buy.
@@Radioghost717 Slightly used Is a 1-3 year old car with max 30k miles for me. There you can get good deals. And I do not borrow anything for a car. That´s stupid at this interest rates. Cash is king.
@@Radioghost717yeah they’re like the same price as new cars these days. German cars depreciate rapidly still as they should. Trucks and Japanese cars hold value. Used market is expensive so you might as well buy new.
Two of the best automotive journalist groups in TH-cam land. Appreciate the approach you take to your reviews. Keep up the great work!
As always, outstanding get-together discussion. I have been a Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz enthusiast for over 4 decades. I have had my share of Ferraris, of which I still own 3, Aston Martins, Range Rovers, and Jaguars to name a few.
I agree with Mark. Car prices are out of control and the majority of Americans cannot afford to buy these cars. Recently Acura (Honda) came with a fully electric small SUV. By the time you build this car, you are looking at well over $80K. Your average Honda Accord is almost $50K. People can’t afford it anymore and soon, the automakers are going to pay the price of having the majority not touch any new car.
Just like you gentlemen, I have been blessed to be able to purchase any car I want. But to be honest with you, I am not too enthusiastic to pay high prices for some of these cars nowadays. I had a Porsche Taycan and I lost a lot of money. It was horrible. To make matters worse, for 2024/2025 MY, Porsche has increased the price. Why? The used Taycan inventory is out of control, there are still thousands of new 2023 and 2024 MY left in their inventories, and in my opinion, people will walk away. My daughter “was” interested in the new 2025 Porsche Macan. While this car is new, the dealer was not interested in making any deals, given that I have purchased 10 Porsche from them within the last 14 years.
Equally, I am disappointed with Mercedes. Look at all the unsold EQ models they have or overall over priced cars. Or BMW XM, which in my opinion, I am not sure what that is. BMW refuses to reduce the MSRP, dealers have hundreds of unsold XMs, and some even have brand new 2023 MY in their inventories. These cars are collecting dust, sitting in lots for about 5-24 months, dealers refuse to negotiate deals, and their leases are awful. So, what is next? They expect people like us to just open our pockets. No, thanks.
Regardless of brand, these companies are out of control with their process, most have awful lease programs, and they wonder what they are not selling. With extremely high prices and significant short-term depreciation, I am not going to spend money anymore, even though I can. Numbers don’t speak to me anymore.
It has become a corporate greed and the auto industry has lost touch with reality.
im a 1%er millenial and I'm never going to be buying 10 cars from Porsche. they took my 5000$ from me for 2 years for a gt3 allocation and then gave it back when Ukraine popped off and ghosted me. Id love to get a gt3 eventually, but I'm not buying 10 macans and cayennes for the privilege, ill stick w my teslas. the value just isn't there. I see Carreras and s sitting on lot, but they dont make gt cars which they can still sell for ADMs. I dont get it.
Let the dealers eat cake. They have become even greedier over the last 3 years since money printing/covid drove record profits. They will pull their heads out of their asses and adjust their MSRP’s or be hit where it hurts horribly. Dealers are just as, if not more guilty as they were the ones putting sourcing charges of their cars sometimes 10% or more over MSRP. With rates at 2% or something else insane maybe that was acceptable. Never for someone like me, but they need to adapt to the times. People don’t have money like that anymore and the fed royally fucked the ppl and the Uber rich gathered more wealth in that time period than is comprehensible. I’m no severe skeptic but I call bullshit when I see it.
When ppl stop paying for it, that’s when we’ll see prices drop.
Facts. Some people think it is a flex to pay more for these vehicles. As soon as you drive off the lot you lose 10k.
I hope both your shows continue to talk about not just cars but how those vehicles fit into the rest of our lives considering the times we are in. Nice to see this collab.
A true analysis of the real cost of a car . The cost to manufacture it . Labor costs , parts etc .
this. a true car reviewer who has been around the block must do. differentiates wheat from the chaff in reviewers
Sure, here's a breakdown with approximate percentages:
1. **Materials**: Typically accounts for around 40-50% of the total manufacturing cost.
2. **Labor**: Roughly 10-20% of the total cost, depending on factors like wages and automation level.
3. **Overhead**: This can vary widely but generally falls between 5-10% of the total cost.
4. **Research and Development (R&D)**: Can be significant, ranging from 5-15% of the total cost, especially for innovative or complex vehicles.
5. **Tooling and Equipment**: Around 5-10% of the total cost, depending on the level of automation and technology required.
6. **Logistics and Transportation**: Typically accounts for 5-10% of the total cost, depending on distance and transportation mode.
7. **Marketing and Sales**: Usually around 5-15% of the total cost, depending on promotional activities and market competition.
8. **Taxes and Tariffs**: This can vary greatly depending on the country and local tax policies, but generally, it accounts for 5-15% of the total cost.
9. **Quality Control**: Roughly 5-10% of the total cost, ensuring product quality is a significant investment.
10. **Warranty and Customer Support**: Typically around 2-5% of the total cost, but can vary based on warranty length and customer service offerings.
These percentages are approximate and can vary based on factors such as the type of vehicle, manufacturing location, company practices, and market conditions.
@@aaron___6014 Great! So, which vehicles are worthy of their MSRP vs need to be priced lower?
@@TH-camrkt I don't have a good answer for that one. I would have to know that markup over the total cost of the car. I see people on youtube claiming cars cost 50% of MSRP to make. I've read 60-80%.
The cost has zero relation to what the consumer is willing to pay. If someone makes a worse car that cost more to make then its still rubbish and they should make less money on it.
I enjoy Marks’ videos about ordinary cars the most.
Even if it’s a Nissan, I still enjoy him takin about it 😂❤
Nissan Juke NISMO for the win! 🏁
I can’t get excited about cars anymore. I’ve been priced out of everything. Hell I can’t even afford a Mustang GT anymore as they are nearly $50k after destination and taxes. I use to love cars so much, but there are maybe two cars that interest me that are currently produced and they are both late in there life cycle.
It is interesting to hear car enthusiast talk about how cars are too expensive… instead of just defending the trend in prices because they love cars. If enthusiasts think cars are too expensive imagine how people feel who see a car as an appliance?!
Good point.....historically auto brands were propped up by the diehard enthusiasts. Once they are priced out the companies will wither and die. Motorsports with factory support will follow. Not good...
Cars are so overpriced these days, I'm simply shocked people are agreeing to pay these outrageous prices. $50k for the average car is outrageous in today's climate.
Reality is if thats what consumers are willing to pay that’s what they’re worth.
100% correct. Absurd
I'm looking at mid sized trucks right now, mid range features/package, and will not think about purchasing without a minimum 25% off MSRP. They raised the prices 18% on average above our already high inflation so 28% off would be the dealership actually giving you an actual 10% discount.
@@coffeeandxanax2158 I wish you good luck! Greedy Dealers and tactics aside, this is one tough market.
@@coffeeandxanax2158it's not that they raised it 18% higher than inflation, it's that CPI is lying bold faced about the actual inflation rate. They have been omitting food, energy, oil/gas, and housing from the 'basket of goods' used to make the calculation, when CPI said inflation was 14% if calculated using the basket of good that was being used in the late '70s/ early '80s our real inflation in 2022 was north of 23%.
Of course we are using the term incorrectly, from Mises:"Inflation is an increase in currency notes in circulation or bank deposits subject to check.", the fed printing money IS the inflation, prices rising is just the natural consequence because you can print currency but you cannot print value.
First off George was a standup comic ! Fascinating. I enjoy both of their respective shows very much. I think what draws me in is the maturity of the content, it’s fulfilling relevant content.
Keep doing what you’re doing with possibly more content from inside the design team with an emphasis on why and how the team is building a specific car or truck. Where did inspiration come from ……a higher up, a focus group, etc.,
We got a new truck in our fleet at work about 6 months ago. It’s a RAM 1500 Classic Tradesman trim. It’s 4 door, 4x4, vinyl seats, black bumpers, V6 (no V8). The MSRP sticker was $49k. We’re now essentially at $50k for a basic work truck that blue collar man would use for work and haul his family around.
You and your colleagues in this video offer a look into the economic trails and worries of many a consumer. Just talking about HP and speed and towing capacity, etc. for vehicles is data and sometimes impressions. Offering thoughtful reflections and comparisons about big-ticket purchases (needs, whys, how-to-pay, etc.) is much more useful than the data and driving impressions. THANKS to the three of you.
Our pleasure!
Been a fan of both channels for years and enjoy this video’s format a lot. I’ve owned over 45 cars and, until recently, could afford to flip every 18 months or so on a solid middle class income. This is no longer the case. Along with everything else, the high prices have taken even more fun out of the car experience and are leading people like me into different hobbies.
Great real world feedback!
@@MotoManTV when the Ioniq 5 lease is up (my experiment in the EV space. Verdict: they are the future and the future is overweight and lacks tactile feedback) I’m looking for something that will go 200,000 miles, stick shift, light weight, with a decent sound system. Civic Sport Touring, Acura Integra A Spec, or Elantra N. Pick up a Miata for fun and call it quits.
@@duncanmclellan5479 problem is a civic type r is 62k in my area lol. this is why fossil performance cars are dead. a model 3 performance will wax that under nearly every scenario for 45k. of course you dont get the emotion but this is the future. performance cars are only rich mans toy at this point.
You guys nailed it. Expensive tech for the sake of tech, repair costs, increased insurance for said tech parts, etc… out of touch is a phrase that comes to mind.
I’m happy with my ‘14. Just enough tech/analog. If I sold it, I’d be going for the same mix
Aviator for 80k? What about Nautilus for 70k with a 2.0L 4 banger?
I wouldn't buy either if they were 50k.
2.0l 4 cylinder?? That's a bit too advanced for my blood
@@dcf8978 i need a 1.3L i-3 with a turbo (for my 4500LBS suv)
To be fair, those 4 banger put out the power of 6 cylinders or even older v8s
@@user-xf1gn1uq4l but not in a refined way. I'll take a smooth 6 cylinder with 300 hp over a shaky, unrefined 4 banger with 350 hp any day of the week.
Build quality, longevity, and cost of ownership over time are more important to viewers like myself than shiny electronics and screen size. The economics seem to be pushing us away from long-term ownership/oil changes in the driveway and towards lease and discard robotaxis.. perhaps you could interview the people in the industry responsible for those things?
You understand we’re in the minority with that perspective though, right? No one pays 50k for a new car that is concerned about tco.
I literally bought a 2024 seltos paid off and wanted to do my own oil change but cant find the amount of oil needed in the manual or online its ridiculous had to ask mechanics at the dealer
I see savagegeese, i click
Cars are just too expensive period. We need more choice in the $15 to $25k level. And beyond that we need higher wages for all the productivity increases given over the last 40 years.
I hope you've got a few more of these Motoman/Savage Geese learning sessions in the can.
Interviews with important personnel from different car manufacturers being asked “importance between huge generational leaps, leading to massive price hikes. Vs. the importance of keeping the market grounded and affordable”
I would also love to see a genuine price breakdown for a vehicle like the new 2024 Tacoma, cause I can’t comprehend the massive cost of that vehicle. And would love to know how much Toyota is pocketing at the cost of the consumer.
You guys have some of the most respectable TH-cam content and full of information and I've bought several cars based on your reviews have been not been let down by your guys's point of view and hope to see you guys grow far beyond this
I’ll never understand why this channel doesn’t have a million subscribers. It’s always been to me the most accessible car channel on TH-cam to get into. Brand enough for casuals, with enough details for the “car people” to get a deeper layer while watching too. And I think his subjective opinions are well thought out and argued as well. Anyway, this was a fun conversation to watch.
Appreciate views and counterviews of all of you! Thanks and congrats!
This was a great conversation, thanks fellas!
My last car was a VA STi. As they tend to do, it blew up. Shopping for a new car was literally insane, seeing cheap ass economy cars costing as much or more than I bought my STi for. I ended up buying a *used* 2020 Corolla Hatchback for $26k, $3k more than the fu**ing original sale price when it was brand new according to the window sticker I found in the glove. Literally insane.
REALLY good interview - you guys are hitting on a trend that is the tip of the spear on the consumer strength conversion and the biggest indicator we are heading into a recession while others are focused exclusively on the new touch screen bidet built into the new 2024 model years. Love this content
One major concern I have is what Mark alluded to. Prices are going up and reliability is going down. As more and more people are relegated to only being able to afford 10 year old cars, what do they do when those are all commodity piles?
I was shocked that more journalists didnt blast toyota lexus for their new gimicks. They were the last brand that I thought "got it"
My only suggestion is to keep doing what you have been doing. You are the best brains in the industry. Your insights into cars and the industry in total is why I enjoy hearing what you have to say.
Great interview. It’s always nice seeing the best “chew the fat” together!
I love when you 3 have these chats…I like this content as much or more than standard reviews.
Great discussion gentlemen and two of my most favorite channels. Interesting and dynamic questions about the state of the auto industry and the consumer.
Love this collaboration and appreciate @savagegeese and @motoman for not getting completely sucked in by the hype but instead looking out for the consumer. Is it a good car that’s worth your hard earned money?
Great insight by all and, in particular, the piece by Mark. The average new car price is near 50k and climbing. The average yearly salary increase is maybe 2-3%. Inflation has made food prices and rent unbearable. This is not sustainable.
I get mad at whatever the TV says. Lately orange man baddly bad so thats my focus. Eat da wich myan
No one forcing you to buy a new car m8
Thank you guys for having this conversation on your platform.
Great discussion! I don't know how an average family can afford these things. I'm comfortably retired, and driving an $80k Bimmer, but the chart you shared shows how ridiculous the price of new autos is these days.
I am 29 and I can barely afford my over a quarter century old car...which is almost as old as me
Love these collabs.
I love the story telling and type of cars Motoman reviews. I love the technical underpinnings, audio system analysis and other technical odds and sods Savage Geese bring to the table. Not sure what to improve. Just more of the same, and above all else, HONEST reviews whenever possible.
Im happy you guys are speaking on this .
Being into cars you could do it and be a normal working man. Now you have to be well off to be into cars…. This has completely kill being a car enthusiast for me… I have many two more cars I aspire to own and then I am out of this game
Loved the end bit!
Yes thank you! Well said
Remember you reviewing the new (at the time) 2014 s63 and that video being motivation to one day own an s class. Although I was a senior in high school could never stop thinking of an s class. 10 years later I’m finally driving an s580. Please never stop doing this!!!
Goose fan here. Respect on the interview!
Great show guys
So for the first time of my life I was able to buy an actual new car 2-3 years ago, it was right when the GV70 came out and I loved it, so I bought it.
The crazy thing to me about looking at the budget and what I can afford, I can lease a $55-60k car (actual lease amount after any kind of trade in or down payment), or finance a $40k car. The gap is so huge it's mind blowing, and in that sense makes more sense to lease the new car unless you want to finance a used car that's the previous model.
These convos are very special and important to all of us parasocial consumers. Keep them up!
Nice to see your personalities and long form conversations. You could probably include more "behind the scenes" footage and keep the cameras rolling more and make the audience feel like they're there with you.
I loved this episode MM. Great collaboration. Oh, about some of the last comments..... not in the same league but I get really nervous as well 😀
Very educational gentleman. Yes, the auto industry needs a complete and painful reset
Yahtze!
Not happening. BMW saw record profits selling less since 2020 since they sold at msrp, and still do. They are making more off the richer customer than ever
The buyer needs a reset
@@jissanhuq3792it will happen sooner or later, this model is not sustainable for the long run, BMW and such are not and will never be Ferrari so they need to be/stay approachable.
@@hassanjrt.9475 i do believe you are right. I don’t think catering to a small percentage is good for business. Just don’t know how we will get there. I have a loaded 5 series i bought in 2018 new for 20k off the 72k after discounts and rebates. Its for features they don’t even allow for in the model anymore like soft close doors. How do we go baby to this when its full price now, horrible interest and leas options? I fear it may not
You guys are great. keep it up!
I'm glad you mentioned the issue that the inflation argument is bad to 'justify' the higher prices today.
Buying power (money available to spend on a car) is so far trailing the inflation rate.
I love these discussions. I would love to see more of these, even if it's just virtual and/or live-streams. I would love to see narrow-focused discussions about the impact of a particular car or segment over time. i.e. "What happened to the personal luxury coupe?" or "The impact of Porsche on the development of sports cars since the 1960's."
Esoteric discussions, educational, thoughtful discussions. It's hard to get excited about cars these days. As you observed, they're either boring, or too expensive for a regular guy to ever afford. If I can't open a Motortrend magazine and get "excited for next product" like I could when I was a kid, at least I can spend a little time sharing the head space of a few guys who share my opinions. That would be really enjoyable.
Nailed it
The thing is, even kids nowadays aren't as excited by the new cars. And the reason for not being excited for a Mercedes or Audi, have you tried owning those things long-term and getting parts in any city outside of the major urban centers?
I was actually thinking about getting a Tesla. I know I know I like acceleration, but our city has one I repeat one service center. Our population is 1.25 million people. I think there's six, maybe eight, ford dealerships. Same with the imports. I bet you there's two maybe three Mercedes and or two or three dealers. That's it.
Don't get me started on parts prices, or reliability.
It can be life-changing to upgrade to a vehicle that closely aligns with our needs and personality. A vehicle becomes part of the family in many cases, some people even name their vehicles. A vehicle is a tool that greatly enhances our abilities, but it can become more than that if alignment is achieved.
My videos are not just what the vehicle is, but how it can be experienced by both the owner and onlookers. Similar to clothing, it has to be comfortable, functional, and presentable in a way that aligns with the owner.
good point.
About time someone addressed the unrealistic price escalation in the auto market. People should not pay these prices.
Do a feature on how auto departments (executives, accounting, engineering, design) compete for influence and how teams decide how to allocate their resources towards a budget car (handling, tech, comfort, power train).
Or why the Ford EcoBoost designer puts a wear item inside the engine where you have to take a timing cover off that has 23 bolts in a specific sequence (33 steps - you have to loosen some!) that has four different torque numbers.
I love this partnership! 2 of my favorite shows hands down. Aside from car reviews in your traditional format, I think it would be cool to see just do more reviews together. I believe that the 3 of you give honest reviews without the fluff and that you also give a balance of practical real world experience and facts to go along with it.
Sorry, I also would like to see the following:
a top 10 car review. Take the top 10 cars and rate them base on your experience vs expectations.
A episode of 10 best keepers in the following topics: sports car entey level and high end, luxury car both entry level and high end, family vehicles, and lastly speak on the future trends of the auto industry like are we seeing a slowing ev market and a return to hybrid, the quality of ev vehicles being produced vs ice vehicles. Also motoman we know what vehicles you own but what about Mark and Jack, what vehicles do they currently own?
Chris, thank you for the insightful feedback! Jack recently purchased a C8 Z06. Mark? I think he is still driving that Yugo . . .
@MotoManTV most welcome my friend, can I add car care tips in a short video series. I remember Mark did a few great videos on oil, breaks, tires, window tinting etc. Also, Part of what I like about both of the channels is how you describe driving dynamics and how the suspension either benefits or hinders the driving experience.
As a car buff, doing more of these inside-the-house talks on auto industry gives me perspective what makes them tick.
The job titles 😂
Interesting video and very insightful into this side of the industry.
Holy cow, i love you three! What an absolute pleasure 😊👌
great conversation!!
They’re not just rising they catapulted in 2020. Im upper middle income, bought a 2018 BMW new with 20% discount and rebates, extremely low interest. That same car now is 80k, no deals with horrible interest and somehow less buildable options. Ive needed a new SUV for years but keep holding off
There’s a few things I can see you all doing together… first a podcast would be a lot of fun. Second, I think you all doing interviews with engineers together would be a good video to watch as well. Either way, love the videos.
As someone who has zero interest in SUVs/CUVs/trucks/vans, I definitely don't feel like there's more options today than ever. It feels like every year there's just less and less options. Even if you ignore the fact that I only buy manual transmissions...
I originally passed on this video because of the thumbnail, it wasn’t until I saw your instagram post about this being a interview with Mark and Jack which made me come back to check this video out
Awesome segment guys. Most relevant topic and great takes.
This is all by design, they don’t want a middle class in America, they have global aspirations to develop middle class markets there and think the middle class in America are dangerous to their long term power and control. This is a great interview and very honest.
Who is "they" ?
@@churchofbrap876{{{they}}}
. George Carlin has that answer. Search " Who Really Controls America
@@journeyman291George Carlin was a prophet who delivered his message in comedic form.
@@churchofbrap876That's an antisemitic question.
Two of the best channels
15:05 I love both your shows, and i tune into you and others for different perspectives on the same thing. Could you imagine getting all your news from one source? I could never. But i value Savagegeese for its technical breakdown and engineering evaluation. I enjoy Motoman for how you cover the whys of this and that along with finance of sorts. I really enjoy the deep dives Savage has been doing on the behind the scenes on the making of X. On the one hand its nice to think about what you guys could do together and I'm sure you could accomplish a lot. I have no suggestions and appreciate both of you independently. THis is a great show here tho. Perhaps interviewing other auto tubers like yourselves for similar perspectives on the industry. HEY that's a show or segment!
As always, appreciate you watching and sharing your insightful feedback!
When I bought my first new car it was a 1981 Toyota Tercel 4speed stick vinyl seats no a/c because that’s what I felt I could afford to finance @ 14.4%. Today a first time buyer has many more financial options available. Many buyers today could easily afford a 25k car however will make a hard pass and instead will finance a vehicle for 72 or 84 months to achieve a vehicle their ego can digest.
Great conversations
I have several used cars. My favourites are the $15k to $20k classics, which provide me fun excitement room and looks, and will not dropp in price bc are already fully depreciated. C4 Corvette, Datsun z280, etc.
They are analog NA cars with zero electronic nannies, self parking, gps, lane departure bs, rear camera, etc etc
Im 41 and im looking at rehabing a 2006 LS 430 because i hate new car tech, the new cars are NOT as good as the best built cars from the past. 20k for a brand new LS430 after i run through it will be a steal. For speed i ride Ducati's again because i can buy a hell of a bike for 40k and be a rock star on the street and track. You cant do that w/ a car unless you drop a lot more. I mean you could run around in a crunked out 90's civic sure but why.
MotoManTV and Savagegeese are my two favorite car channels. I’d love to see a future collaboration deep dive documentary between your two channels. I think the unique insights both of your channels bring would be very educational as well as entertaining. Great discussion.
Our pleasure!
To be middle class in the US today, you have to make $135k a year, that is $97k more than I am making right now, I have a 2004 Honda Pilot I bought 1 year ago for $2750, it had 224k miles and it runs like new, there is no chance in hell that I can ever buy a vehicle from New, considering a new Honda with the same spec I have costs $65k, new cars are unobtainable.
To marks point about the five year life cycle being a thing of the past in 2023 the average age of a car in America is 12.5 years. It's gone up nearly 2 years since 2010. The industry is cannibalizing it's market by chasing the highest margins possible to hit the best possible quarterly profits. Judging by the amount of repossessions and full car lots we're hitting the tipping point. The people that can afford and want these cars already have purchased them. I'm also convinced some of the manufacturers are counting on bailouts again. It's hard to imagine Stellantis is holding the line with their prices and not eying a bailout.
As a 68 year old car guy I have lost total interest in new cars.The cost is out of control and when I see a review on an ev I turn it off after about 2 minutes.They are all the same to me.They are like an electric golf cart that won’t make it 18 holes on a charge and have a huge computer screen.No thanks.
There is a ever growing anti car sentiment I've noticed online and with younger people especially.
Cars are just an expensive uninspiring appliance that drains their wallets and causes frustration in repairs and boredom of their commutes.
I think its a very long time away, perhaps after we are dead, but I think there will be greater movements to have alternatives to private cars in the future. They are far to expensive to maintain anymore for average people, more and more younger people hold off getting their license as long as they can statistically, and if our country is serious about doing better for the environment walkable areas, bikes, and public transportation are better for the environment technically.
I like cars a lot. I live driving anything honestly. But I myself am falling out of love because I will never have the money to afford these things and be secure in other aspects of my life. They aren't made for normal people anymore.
Hidden gems of used cars. Set a.max price of maybe 20k. Thay would get my interest. I used to be obsessed wihj car reviews, but watching the prices soar i just think, " whats the point" i can't afford that car in my dreams. Maybe when 15 years old....
Love the collaboration
I agree heavily with the idea that vehicle prices are just too high. With the increased cost of living and cost of goods, it becomes difficult for the average consumer to be interested in a lot of vehicles because they know that they're priced in a way that puts them out of realistically being able to afford that vehicle. I think these automakers are going to need to put more effort into lower-cost vehicles rather than focusing on the higher-end of the spectrum.
I reached my tipping point with the new Trd pro. Like $20k more than just a few years ago. Same with the LC “Starting mid-$50s”…check dealer it’s $65-85k”….Nope.
I've never seen this channel before. It's really good. I just subscribed👍
A new Mustang GT is at least 10k more than I think its worth, or said another way, its 10k more than I'm willing to buy it for. My local dealer has 4 GT's on their lot since late October, they just aren't selling and I live in a fairly affluent and fairly rural area in central Ohio.
another thing about these super expensive cars is that they are so rare and unobtainable and expensive that no one actually drives them. they end up just sitting in a garage as a showpiece instead of being driven, despite all the absolutely incredible engineering that goes into some of them.
I believe all of these car reviewers know and seem to like each other. They all have tremendous knowledge about automobiles and pretty good insight into the car industry in general.
True. Over the years, have gotten to know most of the folks you watch on these platforms.
love to see colabos like this
I love savagegeese…..the honest reviews of everyday cars with a dose of sarcasm and hilarious takes..,great channel
I love all three of you, you're so grounded in reality, I feel like by watching your content I'll get views that reflect mine as an average man
And what you said about "The more grounded, simpler brands will stick arround rather than the ones that do tech for the sake of it with no Innovation" Yes, absolutely, the more grounded brands are the best and most successful brands (Like Toyota and Honda) for a reason.
I love you guys, keep uo the good work! ❤️
My wife and I are just sticking with our 10 and 25 year old cars as long as we can
Great interview, everyone. Awesome insights. The points mentioned are heavily in the US context, but I can confirm a good number of them are applicable to the rest of the world, even in Southeast Asia where I'm from. You guys are still relatively shielded from the Chinese car/EV onslaught, but it'd be interesting if you could take a look at it and apply your perspective. May not be feasible as it'd involve some overseas travel but that's one idea. Cheers gentlemen
Prices are ridiculous, but the other factor is quality. Many, if not most, manufacturers seem to no longer give a rip about the quality of their products.