@@muffin2221 they either saw the handful of fang mains dominate statistically due to lack of matchup knowledge and mistakenly thought he was overtuned, or the was one guy in the office beating the game balance lead on lunch breaks using fang.
He at least seems more complete now that previous non-Dan characters that Capcom tried and failed to buff. *cough*Hakan*cough* [/damned by faint praise]
I feel like the S.HP change is meant for if you happen to read a reversal backdash... especially since if you land it point blank you can juggle with S.LK into M or H command dash and deny your opponent their wakeup, putting yourself +2 and point blank on either side. I'm not really sure what Fang can do that would make the opponent pick reversal backdash, though... you'd have to be in a +4 situation for S.HP to cover three frame attacks and the best he can do is +3 off of his S.LK or C.MK. I suppose it could also be for if you catch an incedental jumping attack like Mika's drop kick.
He is funny, hopefully he comes back in SF6, he is one of the few new additions that I think is legit. Not a lot of characters from V were as good as this dude and it's a shame he's been Bottom 3 popularity for the entirety of the game's life.
Sadly I don't think it's likely that he's coming back. Not only is he so much like other one-off designs like Hakan, he also falls off a catwalk into an exploding shadoloo base. Admittedly, this wouldn't stop him from coming back as a cyborg or something I guess... and I did say the same thing about Seth before capcom announced they were coming back. Also I agree, Fang is in the top 3 new characters for SF5... 2 if you run the excuse that G is actually Q and therefor isn't new. (Rashid is the other one. Gameplay aside he's a fun addition to the street fighter cast and I wouldn't mind seeing him again)
@@garou12 Yeah... the difference there is that bringing Fang back from the grave can't be measured against bringing charlie back... it'd be more like if they resurrected Rufus. (I know he's not dead, but he's the closest character I can think of in popularity and plot relevance to FANG... Hell, if they push the story beyond SF5's, I might be surprised if they bring Bison back. Okay, I wouldn't be that surprised.)
@@kevingriffith6011 they've written themselves into a corner re bison. they keep killing him but they also keep bringing him back. tbf none of the new chars except for me maybe juri have anywhere the popularity that the world warriors have. that's why we keep seeing them return. but tbf i find snk's chars are better designed because they're got real personlities. sf's are mostly cookie cutter archetypes. hakan was kooky and fun but not loved. i wonder why
Do you think Season 1 FANG is bad enough for a Bad Balance video? He's probably not as bad as most of the other characters you've done, but I think Bad Balances focusing on poor cohesion (akin to USFIV Dee Jay) are really interesting, often in subtle ways.
@@Bafael Situational but could you try either season 1 trials mode or test out DepotDownloader to try and download an earlier build works? Because playing Season 1 Trials as Ryu for example has his original Cr HP animation instead of his Season 3/Current version.
1:16 = Oh, shit. He's broken now. /s Seriously though, what the hell? As someone basically only pays attention to this game whenever you or Desk upload a video about it, how the hell did F.A.N.G go so long without something as basic as that, especially for as low-damage as he is? I could maybe understand if he was a zoner, if poison did more damage than it does, and/or if poison could kill you, but *none* of that is true. Was F.A.N.G. the only character in the game who couldn't knockdown from a light without Critical Art before this? I'll pretend to be surprised if the answer is "yes."
@@Ghaust8546 Well I can't pretend to be surprised that He of the Backwards Legs (still) needs an EX from lights given he's on the slower side and has always been a bit clunky historically. Hell, his kit was arguably as disjointed as F.A.N.G.'s was, with Flash Chop as his only outright "good" special move.
@@MusicoftheDamned ok so i actually checked on the cast and not counting alex; laura, dhalsim, and vega (without mask) cant get a knockdown from lights without spending meter. Also maybe menat and bison but im not sure
@@Ghaust8546 Huh. Well I expected Dhalsim and especially--sigh--Vega, but learning Laura can't is legitimately surprising. At least it somewhat makes sense in her case though and would arguably be overkill for her. Shrug. Either way, thanks for checking.
I'm disappointed they never buffed the poison after all these patches. They could've at least doubled it's damage. The poison needs to be something that changes how the game is played momentarily, or else it isn't interesting. They could've made poisoned characters recover stun more slowly, or maybe all your punch normals do chip damage or something. (All this would come with other adjustments to keep his balance in check, of course)
Hoestly I kinda wish they would make fang op in a way like just unnecessary safe on a lot since like no one plays him lol or I just don't ever see him much at all
These buffs seem pretty good but sadly FANG is destined to be middling because devs are scared that if his poison was too good it’d be really unfun to play against, which is probably right? I’m sure the version of this game where he’s a mid to low tier character is much more fun than the one where he’s a top 5 character. As a side note it’s really funny to think that they gave him 2LP L Sotoja in a previous patch to make his challenging game better but L Sotoja was 0 so as a 4 framer he was still kinda fucked. I get being strapped for defensive options is an easy balance idea but that’s just pathetic lol
Honestly FANG from S1 should have been left on the cutting room floor given the state he was released in. Better to get him right later than do what was done. Changes are great for his few loyal fans that his kit now "works." but he's still not an especially fun character to play against.
Talk about wasted potential...Poison is such a rare element in fighting games the only other characters that i can think that even do it are Persona characters (which is 100% cheating considering its based off an rpg), Piranha Plant in smash (who doesn't even really do that as much as he has an AOF, DOT move thats purple), Testament from Guilty Gear and Lin from KOF. And he's propped up as the replacement to SAGAT. But all we got was this annoying character that wasn't very good and capcom went out of their way to deny any and all time in the spotlight. Capcom tends to be bad with this as a lot of characters, Notoriously most of the 3 cast with Alex being a particular example, where they make characters, don't give them any push to make you be interested in them, and don't fix their flaws, then just dump them like it was our fault they wasted the characters when if Capcom tried a little to make anyone but Ryu relevant we'd gladly be interested in them. But this time i don't think capcom was in the wrong for doing this again, even with all he's got now I think it's safe to say F.A.N.G is unarguably in the bottom 3 for least popular characters in this game. It sucks capcom never had, and never could provide a reason for this character to be interesting other than the moveset. hopefully this isn't another SF4 where this newcomer like Rufus Fuerte and Viper were generally kinda bad so the cool ideas of the move set don't come back, because i'd love another poison user to come back that's just better designed.
@@astolfostrikesback4073 well i mean lets be fair, she's just a vanessa rip off ignoring her moves. a VERY UGLY one that misses everything about it. The idea is cool as shit she just has a very stupid hair cut and boob window. a normal reserved design would do wonders for her. I'd actually like her back if they did that with her.
I think fangs problem is that hes neither attractive as a character nor strong enough for people to play him just for his tier. Give fang's moveset to juri and the incongruent poisoner moveset sees 20 times more play lol
@@Lilybun he’s also again not very interesting or entertaining personality wise. He’s just a narcissist but unlike vega he’s an ass kisser to separate him from the Spanish yodeling ninja. Even his designs not very interesting.
@@Neogears1312 Visually I think he could have worked if his flavor animation (intro, win, super etc.) and voiceover weren't over the top wacky flailing and screaming. I think a more subtle and menacing vibe could have worked without changing much of his nimble and bizarre combat animations. Vega is straight up hot and his ego fits his Casanova demeanor well imo.
I really like FANG as a character and his poison mechanic. But he constantly felt weak and his gameplay sucked in the begin. He should have gotten more buffs throughout SFV but im sure FANG players will take anything at this point. The only thing I really wanted is that poison will kill you. So FANG can poison you, run away and get the kill.
Poison would have to be an on hit only move for it to kill like that. That would make him the only character in the game who can chip without super and how easily he gets poison anyway would give him way too many checkmate situations.
@@powahbomb Given how overall weak and unplayed FANG is, sometime crazy like that is the push FANG needs. Poison is how FANG cheats a very constrained game but the cheat feels good but lacked that extra oomph. Also it makes sense that a lethal poison can kill you. Though considering the cure to FANG's poison is hitting him...ehh idk. But I totally blanked that poison applies on block. So making it hit only is a very fair trade. Or give him 2 types of poison. a less lethal one on block, and the more lethal version on hit?
@@robertgeorge4602 This kinda problem is why FANG has been middling. Poison is an inherently unfair tool, so making a character who does it fun to fight is way harder than making, like, Ryu fun to fight
@@pepegapogu1790 the OP is getting mad at Baf for using the old/official names for buttons (light punch ="jab", medium kick = "forward") instead of the modern terminology "light/medium/heavy X".
I find it interesting that the design of FANG is basically a weird looking, extremely annoying, ultra-chinese guy. If not for Chun-Li consistently being a sexy, powerful chinese character in the SF franchise, FANG might make one think that the JP bros wanted to make the chinese look like insufferable twats.
Agreed, though it's a bit funny since the story in-game implies that he's technically not ethnically Chinese due being kidnapped as a kid like the other assassins in his group. It still makes me wonder if Capcom was trying to throw shade at the Lin Kuei from _Mortal Kombat_ too with that.
F.A.N.G., Gen, Yang, Yun, and Fei Long are all of the chinese fighters that I know of. Yang and Yun are op because Capcom was cappin'. Fei Long was never op, Gen was hard but only good, unless we count the genfinite that was only in omega. Were all of them annoying? I actually don't know because I find that I find anyone that is better than me annoying to fight because they are... better than me. The point is, no I don't think Capcom would cap THAT hard to go for racism lol
@@SaiKisaragi Fei Long was briefly OP in _SFIV Super_ IIRC even before the fact that he could hilariously infinite Juri and a few other characters. (Also find it funny you didn't include Chun-li on the list, but otherwise agreed.)
@@SaiKisaragi None of those are staples of SF which is why I said Chun-Li. Plus I was talking about SFV, and more importantly, China isn't a race and neither is Japan but it's a fact that the Japanese really do not like the Chinese. Don't be a dipshit. You knew what I meant.
I absolutely DETEST FANG, I hate him with all of my being! No one should have such an easy path to harassing other characters. All moves that propel a character forward WITH + frames or -2 on block should cost meter at the very least.
I like that for the most part you're specific about move names or normals, but you call that one move "Fang's weird fly thing".
I think that move has a stupid name with a bunch of vowels in it, so Baf wisely chose to forgo it entirely.
all 3 of us FANG players are rejoicing
Hey one of y'all beat punk so it's not like he's not on the map anymore
Juri main here cheering you on
I'm here
You guys deserve the best. ❤️
It's a shame it took so long for fang to catch up in power. He's one of the most weird and unique characters in sfv
Didn't help they randomly nerfed him a couple times in earlier seasons too
@@muffin2221 they either saw the handful of fang mains dominate statistically due to lack of matchup knowledge and mistakenly thought he was overtuned, or the was one guy in the office beating the game balance lead on lunch breaks using fang.
@@Lilybun the stHK nerf wasn't necessary indeed
I wish they did my boy right from the start, FANG is silly but I feel like he could've been a lot better if he had this from the start.
FANG is a joke character, and remains being a joke thanks to Capcom
He at least seems more complete now that previous non-Dan characters that Capcom tried and failed to buff. *cough*Hakan*cough* [/damned by faint praise]
I feel like the S.HP change is meant for if you happen to read a reversal backdash... especially since if you land it point blank you can juggle with S.LK into M or H command dash and deny your opponent their wakeup, putting yourself +2 and point blank on either side. I'm not really sure what Fang can do that would make the opponent pick reversal backdash, though... you'd have to be in a +4 situation for S.HP to cover three frame attacks and the best he can do is +3 off of his S.LK or C.MK.
I suppose it could also be for if you catch an incedental jumping attack like Mika's drop kick.
Yeah I was thinking maybe before, if fang caught backdash into certain cancels the opponent could quickstand, wake up, and punish him. Hard to say.
He is funny, hopefully he comes back in SF6, he is one of the few new additions that I think is legit. Not a lot of characters from V were as good as this dude and it's a shame he's been Bottom 3 popularity for the entirety of the game's life.
Sadly I don't think it's likely that he's coming back. Not only is he so much like other one-off designs like Hakan, he also falls off a catwalk into an exploding shadoloo base. Admittedly, this wouldn't stop him from coming back as a cyborg or something I guess... and I did say the same thing about Seth before capcom announced they were coming back.
Also I agree, Fang is in the top 3 new characters for SF5... 2 if you run the excuse that G is actually Q and therefor isn't new. (Rashid is the other one. Gameplay aside he's a fun addition to the street fighter cast and I wouldn't mind seeing him again)
@@kevingriffith6011 in sf lore death means nothing now since they keep bringing back gen, bison gouken and charlie.
@@garou12 Yeah... the difference there is that bringing Fang back from the grave can't be measured against bringing charlie back... it'd be more like if they resurrected Rufus. (I know he's not dead, but he's the closest character I can think of in popularity and plot relevance to FANG... Hell, if they push the story beyond SF5's, I might be surprised if they bring Bison back. Okay, I wouldn't be that surprised.)
@@kevingriffith6011 Doesn't he survive? I think some off beat media confirmed he is indeed alive and now is part of his old assassin pals.
@@kevingriffith6011 they've written themselves into a corner re bison. they keep killing him but they also keep bringing him back. tbf none of the new chars except for me maybe juri have anywhere the popularity that the world warriors have. that's why we keep seeing them return. but tbf i find snk's chars are better designed because they're got real personlities. sf's are mostly cookie cutter archetypes. hakan was kooky and fun but not loved. i wonder why
Finally, I can taste the poison
FANG doesn't even have a vampire fang, that's why he's bottom tier
F.A.N.G players *UNITE* !
I've been playing this game for 4 years and this is the first time I've seen Fang's vskill 2. I was like bruv what he has a counter? 🤣🤣🤣
Do you think Season 1 FANG is bad enough for a Bad Balance video? He's probably not as bad as most of the other characters you've done, but I think Bad Balances focusing on poor cohesion (akin to USFIV Dee Jay) are really interesting, often in subtle ways.
Hard to look at any SFV char cuz no edition select
then again I still have the closed beta installed so it might be possible.
@@Bafael
Situational but could you try either season 1 trials mode or test out DepotDownloader to try and download an earlier build works?
Because playing Season 1 Trials as Ryu for example has his original Cr HP animation instead of his Season 3/Current version.
@@Greenalink Trials work but I lose all training mode features.
@@Bafael
That's a bummer.
I realised you do show a fair amount of A.I reversals to showcase frame traps, etc.
Are you able to record PS4 footage? You could maybe buy or rent a physical copy and just play without downloading the patches
I think Daigo would have a fun time experimenting with FANG.
1:16 = Oh, shit. He's broken now. /s
Seriously though, what the hell? As someone basically only pays attention to this game whenever you or Desk upload a video about it, how the hell did F.A.N.G go so long without something as basic as that, especially for as low-damage as he is? I could maybe understand if he was a zoner, if poison did more damage than it does, and/or if poison could kill you, but *none* of that is true.
Was F.A.N.G. the only character in the game who couldn't knockdown from a light without Critical Art before this? I'll pretend to be surprised if the answer is "yes."
Maybe not super but a lot of characters cant without EX, the first example i can recall being alex
@@Ghaust8546 Well I can't pretend to be surprised that He of the Backwards Legs (still) needs an EX from lights given he's on the slower side and has always been a bit clunky historically. Hell, his kit was arguably as disjointed as F.A.N.G.'s was, with Flash Chop as his only outright "good" special move.
@@MusicoftheDamned ok so i actually checked on the cast and not counting alex; laura, dhalsim, and vega (without mask) cant get a knockdown from lights without spending meter. Also maybe menat and bison but im not sure
@@Ghaust8546 Huh. Well I expected Dhalsim and especially--sigh--Vega, but learning Laura can't is legitimately surprising. At least it somewhat makes sense in her case though and would arguably be overkill for her. Shrug.
Either way, thanks for checking.
@@Ghaust8546 Menat can get a knockdown by cancelling st.lk into v-skill and Bison from his light orb move
I hate annoying characters but I was kind of rooting for fang because he's one of few quirky characters in sf5
Idk what to do against Fang as Alex now. Once he gets rolling i cant seem to stop him
When he does Nishikyu, just stomp lol
@@Kara-de5cz Why are you Fangs throwing out fireballs in block pressure?
hey Fang is a character now? sweeet
I'm disappointed they never buffed the poison after all these patches. They could've at least doubled it's damage. The poison needs to be something that changes how the game is played momentarily, or else it isn't interesting. They could've made poisoned characters recover stun more slowly, or maybe all your punch normals do chip damage or something. (All this would come with other adjustments to keep his balance in check, of course)
poison ticked down much slower on release than it does now IIRC.
I keep forgetting that this character exists.
Well, good for the Fang mains to get their buffs.
Hoestly I kinda wish they would make fang op in a way like just unnecessary safe on a lot since like no one plays him lol or I just don't ever see him much at all
Not a good idea. Pros are not dumb. If FANG is broken, you'll be sure as hell to see 8 FANGS in the top 8 of major tournaments.
These buffs seem pretty good but sadly FANG is destined to be middling because devs are scared that if his poison was too good it’d be really unfun to play against, which is probably right? I’m sure the version of this game where he’s a mid to low tier character is much more fun than the one where he’s a top 5 character. As a side note it’s really funny to think that they gave him 2LP L Sotoja in a previous patch to make his challenging game better but L Sotoja was 0 so as a 4 framer he was still kinda fucked. I get being strapped for defensive options is an easy balance idea but that’s just pathetic lol
With that said, who is bottom 1 now? Zangief?
Honestly FANG from S1 should have been left on the cutting room floor given the state he was released in. Better to get him right later than do what was done.
Changes are great for his few loyal fans that his kit now "works." but he's still not an especially fun character to play against.
Talk about wasted potential...Poison is such a rare element in fighting games the only other characters that i can think that even do it are Persona characters (which is 100% cheating considering its based off an rpg), Piranha Plant in smash (who doesn't even really do that as much as he has an AOF, DOT move thats purple), Testament from Guilty Gear and Lin from KOF. And he's propped up as the replacement to SAGAT. But all we got was this annoying character that wasn't very good and capcom went out of their way to deny any and all time in the spotlight.
Capcom tends to be bad with this as a lot of characters, Notoriously most of the 3 cast with Alex being a particular example, where they make characters, don't give them any push to make you be interested in them, and don't fix their flaws, then just dump them like it was our fault they wasted the characters when if Capcom tried a little to make anyone but Ryu relevant we'd gladly be interested in them.
But this time i don't think capcom was in the wrong for doing this again, even with all he's got now I think it's safe to say F.A.N.G is unarguably in the bottom 3 for least popular characters in this game. It sucks capcom never had, and never could provide a reason for this character to be interesting other than the moveset. hopefully this isn't another SF4 where this newcomer like Rufus Fuerte and Viper were generally kinda bad so the cool ideas of the move set don't come back, because i'd love another poison user to come back that's just better designed.
Viper bad? 😢
@@astolfostrikesback4073 well i mean lets be fair, she's just a vanessa rip off ignoring her moves. a VERY UGLY one that misses everything about it. The idea is cool as shit she just has a very stupid hair cut and boob window. a normal reserved design would do wonders for her. I'd actually like her back if they did that with her.
I think fangs problem is that hes neither attractive as a character nor strong enough for people to play him just for his tier. Give fang's moveset to juri and the incongruent poisoner moveset sees 20 times more play lol
@@Lilybun he’s also again not very interesting or entertaining personality wise. He’s just a narcissist but unlike vega he’s an ass kisser to separate him from the Spanish yodeling ninja. Even his designs not very interesting.
@@Neogears1312 Visually I think he could have worked if his flavor animation (intro, win, super etc.) and voiceover weren't over the top wacky flailing and screaming. I think a more subtle and menacing vibe could have worked without changing much of his nimble and bizarre combat animations.
Vega is straight up hot and his ego fits his Casanova demeanor well imo.
I really like FANG as a character and his poison mechanic. But he constantly felt weak and his gameplay sucked in the begin.
He should have gotten more buffs throughout SFV but im sure FANG players will take anything at this point.
The only thing I really wanted is that poison will kill you. So FANG can poison you, run away and get the kill.
That sounds awful to play against
Esp since chip kills are gone and poison applies on block
Poison would have to be an on hit only move for it to kill like that. That would make him the only character in the game who can chip without super and how easily he gets poison anyway would give him way too many checkmate situations.
@@powahbomb Given how overall weak and unplayed FANG is, sometime crazy like that is the push FANG needs.
Poison is how FANG cheats a very constrained game but the cheat feels good but lacked that extra oomph. Also it makes sense that a lethal poison can kill you. Though considering the cure to FANG's poison is hitting him...ehh idk.
But I totally blanked that poison applies on block. So making it hit only is a very fair trade.
Or give him 2 types of poison. a less lethal one on block, and the more lethal version on hit?
@@robertgeorge4602 This kinda problem is why FANG has been middling. Poison is an inherently unfair tool, so making a character who does it fun to fight is way harder than making, like, Ryu fun to fight
Light ,medium ,heavy
It's simple
Wha?
@@pepegapogu1790 What do you not understand?
It's simple
@@pepegapogu1790 the OP is getting mad at Baf for using the old/official names for buttons (light punch ="jab", medium kick = "forward") instead of the modern terminology "light/medium/heavy X".
@@SuperLuigiKart64 oh that's not official btw bro. That was miss translation
@@SuperLuigiKart64 ah I see now
It was tricky to learn for me when I started out but there's nothing better than saying fierce
Watching at 2x speed
I find it interesting that the design of FANG is basically a weird looking, extremely annoying, ultra-chinese guy.
If not for Chun-Li consistently being a sexy, powerful chinese character in the SF franchise, FANG might make one think that the JP bros wanted to make the chinese look like insufferable twats.
Wasn't he fake Chinese? I think Chun has some dialogue with him about using the wrong character for "two" on his clothes
Agreed, though it's a bit funny since the story in-game implies that he's technically not ethnically Chinese due being kidnapped as a kid like the other assassins in his group. It still makes me wonder if Capcom was trying to throw shade at the Lin Kuei from _Mortal Kombat_ too with that.
F.A.N.G., Gen, Yang, Yun, and Fei Long are all of the chinese fighters that I know of. Yang and Yun are op because Capcom was cappin'. Fei Long was never op, Gen was hard but only good, unless we count the genfinite that was only in omega. Were all of them annoying? I actually don't know because I find that I find anyone that is better than me annoying to fight because they are... better than me.
The point is, no I don't think Capcom would cap THAT hard to go for racism lol
@@SaiKisaragi Fei Long was briefly OP in _SFIV Super_ IIRC even before the fact that he could hilariously infinite Juri and a few other characters. (Also find it funny you didn't include Chun-li on the list, but otherwise agreed.)
@@SaiKisaragi None of those are staples of SF which is why I said Chun-Li. Plus I was talking about SFV, and more importantly, China isn't a race and neither is Japan but it's a fact that the Japanese really do not like the Chinese.
Don't be a dipshit. You knew what I meant.
cody
True I think Cody is definitely in Street Fighter 5
Wrong, this is FANG.
I think this is F.A.N.G actually
@@NeoBoneGirl cody
@@Boyzby cody
I absolutely DETEST FANG, I hate him with all of my being! No one should have such an easy path to harassing other characters. All moves that propel a character forward WITH + frames or -2 on block should cost meter at the very least.
Te was literally a waste of a character slot for as long as I’ve played this game. We could have had makoto, Hugo, Dudley, etc
Nah, he is legit. Of those you mention, only Dudley is over him. FANG is cool.
But this character was still able to win a major
Great use of a character slot, and a character with a ton of personality. The only 'waste' was leaving him so underwhelming for as long as he was.
@@VenerabIe Definitely cooler than Hugo at least lol, game already has tons of huge dudes, FANG is an interesting design
@@MakoShiruba foh makoto too