"Elgato is too expensive"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- "Elgato is too expensive!" they said. "Watch this," Elgato replied. This is Elgato's new Neo line of products - a new budget-friendly, beginner-oriented group of streaming and content creation gear that brings some unique features to Elgato's lineup.
PRODUCT LINKS: (Affiliate)
Elgato Neo (General) - elgato.sjv.io/c/1378764/10642...
Wave Neo - elgato.sjv.io/c/1378764/10642...
Facecam Neo - elgato.sjv.io/c/1378764/10642...
Stream Deck Neo - elgato.sjv.io/c/1378764/10642...
Key Light Neo - elgato.sjv.io/c/1378764/10642...
Game Capture Neo - elgato.sjv.io/c/1378764/10642...
TIMECODES:
00:00 "Elgato tax is too expensive"
00:27 Unboxing budget Elgato gear
05:43 Elgato Neo Full Streaming Setup
08:17 Elgato Wave Neo vs Elgato Wave:3 Mic Comparison
09:10 Stream Deck NEO
10:00 Is this ACTUALLY budget gear?
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>People: "Elgato is expensive"
>Blackmagic Users: *rapid eye blinking*
right lol
FACTS 🤣🤣
I had no idea people thought elgato was expensive. As someone into audio recording and photography, elgato was already the super budget option for lighting, mics, and audio interfaces.
@@TheJALT2Their mics and audio interfaces are not really that special for the price though. There are many good options at that price.
@@Username-2 yeah agreed I was just referencing the price. Theres tons of audio interfaces at or about $140 they all offer something different that someone might want, but in the world of XLRs there budget options
I see this being more for business people. It looks less gamer, more corporate. At a slightly cheaper price point, it makes this stuff easier for mass deployment to remote employees and other people that find themselves on video calls for business reasons.
I think you're right. Their website shows people using the neo line with zoom and excel
You are right. A little bit more feminine too imo. Probably would go well with a Mac setup
The only reason it’s all white is because if it was black, no one would buy it because it would match other products lol it was a marketing move not to mention their other stuff is better built quality for a few more dollars.
I updated Camera Hub just now and read the changes and wondered "WTH is the Facecam Neo?" with you playing in the background. The sync with you announcing it was eerie.
Hahaha
This is pretty nuts! I've always thought Elgato stuff is reasonably priced so a "budget" line from them is insane. Definitely makes things super accessible.
The low profile mic arm is definitely overpriced, especially when you have to import it and pay double for it
elgato is good but never rely on brand loyalty
Brand loyalty is the absolute worst.
*stares at all my elgato gear for streaming on my desk* Ah shoot...
@@uncanny_mac4660 hAHaha it's okay, it's never too late to check elsewhere too xD
Loyalty goes two ways
I like the idea that this is all plug and play gear (technically all of it is but the marketing will help). I think for anyone wanting to step up or into higher quality content this stuff doesn't look like a bad option by any stretch. The looks are also less "gamer" and more "clean and modern" so I could see a more mass market appeal just by looks alone.
Don’t really consider a 20$ difference the ‘budget’ option, I’d be more compelled for the stream deck neo if it was like 70$ instead
On one hand, it was a super smart move to give the mic a stand tall enohgh that it can actually get close to your face while sitting at a desk. Somehow, nobody has done that before.
On the other hand, they pulled the absolute rookie move of designing a side-address mic that looks like it's supposed to be end-address.
I think they're already a budget option. In fact, they could probably come out with a Wave XLR with quarter in jacks and a second XLR connection for guest, and it would still be considered budget. Although, it would have to compete with the focusrite vocaster 2.
Tbh I wish they would release a competitor to the rodecaster duo or goxlr.
It looks like this is made for the wfh crowd. They want cool products that don't kill the bank. Logitech owned that and elgato is going for it
100% Agree with what you said here! Also love the raw and fresh/ chill style of this video. The outside looked so nice and real with you cam and processing choices!
Love that film grain! Beautiful work❤
I definitely am someone who believes in you get what you pay for. The things look and sound good as first impressions tho! Wonder how they’ll hold up.
Happy to see your still kicking buh and making great content!
Do we know if there's going to be a black version? I work remote, and I'd love to pick up the stream deck neo for my work laptop, but white would just stand out so much versus my other peripherals
lol I love the video outside. Someone is also excited about the nice weather lately lol
Yes!
coming from a business perspective, these might be an interesting offer.
First, it is more corporate friendly in appearance. Stupidest thing to consider, but I'm just the guy who does the tech and has history in proposing and managing the budgets.
Second is the slightly reduced price. Believe it or not, while an individual buying these might not see the difference, a business will go after this in a heartbeat because a $10 saving per device across a deployment of 100+ units is a thousand in savings for that device alone, and more when you consider you're buying more than just one thing per person (savings add up as you include the light, stream deck, facecam, etc...).
Now, many will say "why not buy something cheaper? There are many more similar quality but cheaper alternatives out there. And to that, I say "Indeed!" but that isn't the mindset of corporations. Integration and consistency is god in this world. Devices being designed to work in an ecosystem is a godsend for compatibility, tech issues, training, and usability. When I am deployed to fix something, I want to know exactly what I am going into before I get there so I can diagnose and fix it quickly, if not already know the fix before I arrive. However, if we use two devices from completely different manufacturers, then all it takes is an update in one's software to completely brick or mess something up in the other's integration with everything. Elgato will typically work to ensure that never happens with everything in their ecosystem, same for apple, and any other solution integrators.
For personal use, I would probably be hesitant to recommend these, unless you need a slightly cheaper backup device and/or really really need that extra $20~ish in savings and cannot wait to save the funds for the difference, or maybe you're buying for your kids and want to save where you can. I dunno your situation, so it is up to your own determination factors. This is, in my eyes, 100% a business focused offering, especially for those places that still offer work at home and want their employees to have a minimum standard for communication quality and workflow improvement (especially if the employee has to ever be on video conference with a client), so things like product development, schools, marketing, etc... would probably jump on these quickly if it proves to be a better ecosystem and price offering than competitors.
I tend to agree, the Neo line appears to make sense for remote corporate workers. The only thing that makes me question it, is installing Elgato's software to manage the devices. To truly be supported by large corps they have to be plug and play with existing software (Teams, Zoom, etc). In my opinion this is why we see so many Logi and Poly devices in Corporate settings 1) they're bland enough to blend in and 2) the integrations with Teams is already built so there is less training Help Desk and end users.
Before I found out about the Elgato Neo the title gave me impression the video was about Elgato alternatives and not cheaper new Elgato products, but that might just be me
I’ve gotta ask, have you used the capture card yet and will a video be coming out soon since it’s been a few weeks? I’m dying to hear your take on it before I even consider making a move on it.
Would love to see a video on the best settings for optimizing OBS Preview latency on something like the 4K X. e.g. how much HDR and various resolutions impact latency.
I will be honest, I had just purchased a 2nd Stream Deck when they offered Stream Deck mobile. I returned it and use an iPad 7 as a giant Stream Deck that only takes up space when I want to use it. I had actually turned my Stream Deck into a button box for ATS and other sim games. $50 for lifetime that I am hopeful is actually lifetime and I am good. I will probably never buy another physical Stream Deck.
The mic seems promising if its genuinely just a Wave 3 without controls - I imagine most have a streamdeck or similar so it's not as important. Does the new mic also have clipguard like the Wave 3 and 1 had?
I like what they did so far. Seems like Elgado does not want to give up on quality. I am really curious about that webcam.
Did you streaming course contain best settings for streaming with av1 on twitch with intel arc? I want to buy intel arc a380 low profile version for standalone streaming pc. What cpu would be enough if I streaming with intel arc? Thanks for any answer.
I've had my original stream deck since it launched; still works just as well as it did on day 1... sure initially the price may seem high; but the quality is absolutely there, and you ultimately get what you pay for.
3 years ago i watched so many of your videos to help me get the right audio setup (including many elgato products). Today i'm still streaming with mostly the same equipment. Elgato does a great job continuously updating their software, streamdeck and wave xlr are getting so man good updates.
This is the kind of thing I like to hear!
Do you not count the Streamdeck plus in 2022? At 1:31 roughly you say that it's the first new Streamdeck in 3 years citing the Mk 2 in 2021 but we had the + come in 2022 so that'd be two years no? Or do we just not count the plus?
I was just mistaken in thinking that came out in 2021 lol
@@EposVox I mean you are correct in that the Mk 2 was 2021 (I had to Google 'cause it didn't feel like it'd been that long since I got my +) so from the Mk 2 it's been 3 years. The plus is not a fair comparison to this product either but my stupid factual brain just couldn't let that go 😂
Stream Deck + is what we’re both forgetting!!! Lol
This $30 difference between Neo products and their main line counterparts is a lot in Brazil.
After fees and taxes this $30 can became something like R$ 300, that is 1/5 of the federal minimum wage in Brazil.
Because of that, I think that the Neo line is something huge for emerging markets.
I like my elgato products, I got the stream deck xl and the mic arm. The price is justified. Cool video!
100$ for the mic arm is no where near justified. ive seen 30$ arms made out of better material and were more sturdy than elgatos.
Yeah, a raspberry pi pico button matrix and a mic stand that most fortnite players dont need, extremely expensive for something that simple, the only gear that ElGato sells with a nice prices are its Capture Cards, for everything else, go with alternatives lol, if you buy ElGato u are paying a "dumbass" tax
$30 mic arms are made of absolute trash materials, what are you even talking about
@@pragmaticmero686 for starters most people cant setup a raspberry pi pico and the other thing is that stream deck come with the convenience of everything just works where as the pi you will have to manually setup those intergrations aand sometimes you wont be able to or they won't work as good as a streamdeck
@@JoshuaDay0550not for a low profile mic arm lol.
Going to be tough making a bracket for that Stream Deck. Probably will not bother seeing the price difference between that and the regular 15 key. Budget folks probably wont be looking to customize that much or looking to spend more money just to mount their stream decks properly.
Epos, I think the thing to consider here is that sure whilst $30 may not seem like a lot. Consider a person such a myself coming from South Africa where its almost 19 of our rands to a single dollar. so 30 dollars becomes 600 Rand more and this is before duties etc, even when available locally would still be close to the self import price. I think this market segment would resound a lot more in a 3rd world country such as ours.
I wonder how this would do for those in like India and counties of the like.
I simply hope and pray that this channel gains a ton of viewers since every review is so sincere and every video is so educational.genuinely inspiring.
I understand it makes you zero affiliates money$ but I really appreciated you showing us that 480p white-box capture dongle from east asia back in the days. I limped along on them things for a year or two. It's been years since Covid--has anything happened on that front? Like, did they manage to edge to 720p for the native pipeline? Inquiring minds wants to know. No offense against Elgato but they want too much for their captures for my light light hobby of streaming.
I'm just starting having fun streaming/recording so this product line is a nice entry point I'm looking at. I preordered the camera, but really have my eyes on the mic, deck, and at least one light to get at some point. It would be nice if there was a bundle deal of if you get 4 items or something, 20% off etc., really selling into the starters (like me).
gotta shout to the Hermits in the background.
I would assume that next gen wave line is going to be higher end and priced higher. To ensure the neo line is a budget line.
Wow, I need a light that just clips on to my white monitor. The fact it work with my stream deck wireless is amazing! I don't need a battery and prefer the lightweight
Content gear is so expensive, my first Elgato product arrives today, I got the new MX webcam super excited! The price of these key lights and stream deck are exactly what new creators need definitely checking these out!
This is probably gonna be most likely used, not just for corporate purposes and podcasting, but probably for those who does coworking/creative/artsy type of streams, so even with the fact that they're releasing the Neo Capture card soon, it could also maybe be good for a budget cozy streamer/gamer setup depending on the quality of the content and games being captured via the Neo Capture.
is the grainy shot your thing?
Absolutely awesome video, thanks for this
Yeah I looked at pricing while having your video up and was like a lot of this isn't that budget and has a lot of competition. The Mic especially against the Wave 3 which is only $10 and can be found cheaper at times. Like that you mentioned the EVGA XR-1 Lite. That thing rocks for the price. Antonline used to sell them super cheap. Think I paid $35 for mine. Stream Deck I like the design. Almost has a slight retro flair to it. Really wish it had a removable USB C Cable.
Which Master Chief helmet is that?
I don't know why, but I did not expect the lights to be control center compatible - that's awesome! I might get a couple of those.
Have you tried the stream dock? (stream deck knock off) I have one and I love it! not sure if you can review since Elgato might now want you too. LOL
This is really good to be honest, because some times you just need something to do the job with a good price point
It's nice seeing you outdoors in natural lighting.
Epos Outside.... a nice change of scenery and a pretty nice vibe.
I'm interested in the streamdeck neo's. However I have not looked at price yet. Probably just about the same price as when I made some myself with arduino's and keyboard switches. But likely better, since mine doesn't have screens behind the buttons. Nope nvm, the neo is $100. I made 4 of the arduino based ones from the "streamcheap" project for a tiny bit more. Maybe $30 per. But they're not as polished as something like the neo.
That Huntsman CS2 knife tho 🤣
This may be a stupid question but why is there no capture card that uses displayport?
Most who purchase a capture card, uses either newer consoles, or older ones via an upscaler. Outside of a two-machine setup, any PC game capture is done via OBS' "game capture".
@@NightSprinter in a two PC setup dp could be nice. NDI works though.
@@TheIceMan9304 true, I just think the only reason we have consumer-grade with only HDMI is due to it being the standard. TVs have it, so do monitors. No TVs have DisplayPort.
Way more limited buyer base and way higher cost of manufacturing = not worth it
Elgoto the king of small home studios. STRIKES AGAIN!
i think this is essentially Elgato for more casual users. WFH, budding creators, and even just business/marketing level people who might want a combo of these kinda products but weren't going to take a leap into "gaming gear" land to get them. The marketing on elgato really seems to target WFH and other casual creators
The fixed USB cable on the Stream Deck Neo is a deal breaker. I'll wait for V.2
Neo, Air, and Pro should be their product lines.
Neo should be incredibly cheap, but allow a path to the others. It should also be the first place that new innovations are tested. Imagine a $49 stream deck neo edition, but in six months out comes air a pro versions that implement way more features. You start to get people buying twice without hesitation and without the feeling that they are being taken advantaged of. They could even position the neo line as a "community feedback" line of products where things get implemented very publicly from that feedback. Win/win all around.
I would have preferred everything in black, or at least a dark option. Yeah, it's hard to make good quality "budget" gear. The paging on the stream deck neo is pretty nice - I wish the normal stream decks had that. I'm wondering if long term they are planning to do a "pro" line to compliment the neo line and provide some price/quality separation.
The new key light looks interesting... but I need it in black
Worth a Subscribe just for the LOTR wave neo test! 😁👍
Awesome, thank you!
$100 for the streamdeck will probably make it their top selling holiday item. compelling, but i'd like to see it in black and on sale for $70/80.
im glad i picked up the evga lite for $50 when i did.
I think they did well .... just simply why they chose to go with the white aesthetic
The biggest value from Elgato for me over the years has been their software and how frequently they update it. So, I love that they made more inexpensive devices that still work with their existing software giving people the experience they have come to love. I've noticed that Elgato does a really good job responding to public feedback when it comes to both software and hardware evolution and I think that is pretty awesome. Most companies these days pinch pennies so hard that they aren't receptive to taking any chances, but Elgato is like "Hold my beer" and picks up Corsairs checkbook and starts writing checks! 🤣
Great video EpoxVox! 🍿
This: agreed on the software. This is the best part of Elgato. I was lurking in the shadows but when I noticed the plugins from Bar Raider I was sold. They should offer that man a job.
Glad you called them out for NOT being budget. This is hundreds of dollars aimed at first time users? Nah...
for less than $150 = Fifine mic, Emeet webcam, RGB Ringlight WITH stand and mounts, 4K capture card.. and you can use your phone or tablet as a streamdeck. Before you dish out almost a hundred bucks, maybe use your phone first. THAT'S budget!
The lights are the worst offender. For $60 you can get a pair of light boxes WITH stands. heck for $120-$150 you can buy a ENTIRE Photography Lighting KIT!
0:27 is that a cs knife replica?
The only issue with pricing I have with Elgato was the lights, even if you can command them with things like the streamdeck, I still found them with limited features and not flexible enough for use cases outside of streaming, and since Aputure made the Amaran line, which are amazing lights for content creation these days, more versatile and cheaper, its pretty much a no brainer to pick, at least in my case.
So if Elgato REALLY wants to improve on their existing lights, GIVE THEM SONY NP BATTERY SUPPORT ALREADY LIKE OTHER BRANDS DO! Being able to use them without having them in an outlet for power, PLUS programming them quickly on the streamdeck, which then you can import that to the Elgato mobile app, it would work wonders if you need to make certain types of shots were you would need assistance that you can't simply do on your own, if they manage to do that it would be great, considering that nowadays in order to get "stream growth" you don't only have to stream, but actually have other types of content as well, and one of the most common is making YT videos.
The stream deck Neo is definitely a missed opportunity to do exactly what you suggested. Mountable base and replaceable cable would have been huge for being able to place it wherever you want. I even bought a 3d printed mount for my Streamdeck v1 so I could put it on a gooseneck arm near me
Edit - It's one hundred dollars??? Damn I would have expected like 60 or 70.
My only complaint is that it should've had at least one dial/rotary encoder. It could've been like a stream deck+ mini.
1:27 Stream Deck Plus: Am I a joke to you?
Oh LOL I forgot
It's like when Apple made the iPhone SE. A supposed cheap and "budget" iPhone. But it was still an expensive phone.
Except these are reasonably priced. More than reasonable.
I have the feeling that Elgato is great on things which are "supposed to be expensive", and they offer it for a good price, or with additional features. The Teleprompter is a prime example. The Streamdeck is also great, and I am using their greenscreen (which is housed in a box on the floor). But when it comes to lights or a Microphone arm I feel like it's rather hard to justify the price to myself over buying really cheap options. But I guess they also profit from people who just buy everything from Elgato. And I am sure they will not get disappointed either. Just costs a bit more than it could be (for some items).
But I think when it comes to "premium" lighting options there aren't a lot of options. I feel like elgato fills that space somewhat.
What the Neo line is doing is opening up Elgato to release a new replacement line for their regular products at a higher price point.
Source?
@@tristen_grant source? For the way tiered products work? If you introduce a "budget" product that's almost the same price as your normal product, it stands to reason you can now create new products at a higher price point. What source are you needing? I Only said it opens up the possibility, not that they're automatically taking it.
looking at their pricing vs my country exchange rate, that StreamDeck Neo for 99 buck is 15000JPY.... so in reality it supposed to be cheap, but with Japanese Yen being too weak, oof... it feels like ima paying for 150bucks
I‘m pretty sure the new product line is not meant to be for gamers but instead for corporations. Having similar products but marketing them for different target groups is smart imo. It’s kinda hard as an employee to justify getting „gaming“ products for your remote work, even if they’re much better than alternatives. The market for remote work and online meetings is growing, so it’s a no brainer that Elgato wants to enter this market. They get the feedback from the nerds and then create similar products with the feedback for businesses.
Plug and play also supports this hypothesis. An average employee or manager does not want to download software to make the mic/cam usable.
Price point: I disagree with that „it should be cheaper“ because I don’t see the products as a „budget version“ but instead as technology that companies buy in bulks (corporate technology, kinda like Logitech and Dell).
What was gamer-y about the original SD, lights, and mic? They look just like every other on the market. These are just white versions. If anything, the stream deck neo looks MORE gamer-y
@@EposVox you could argue the black product design, but I would agree that it’s subjective. However the packaging, marketing, tags on websites like Amazon, and product pictures in general were clearly targeting gamers.
With the Neo products you can see the product pictures have meetings on the monitor and are shot in home office setups.
nice knife you got there
Always Amazes me why they charge 99 in every Country😡 $99 in GB pounds works out at £80
I have had nothing but bad experiences with my Elgato HD60s capture cards, both just have stopped working. So if their quality is bad with their premium products. I do not trust the reliability on a budget Elgato product
Now in white! Perfect for WAF! Or just… camgirls and OF 😅
Edit: Joking aside, it’s really a clean look and this alone could bring them in a market they missed. In some Work From Home scenarios this could do well.
Need more colours
this is more like the "elgato cute ver"
I have way too many elgato products me thinks. Let's see I have the WaveXLR, Wave DX, Stream Deck+, OG Stream Deck, Mic Arm and 4K60 Pro Mk.2
Is it just me or the Neo Microphone actually sounded better than Wave:3?
I really liked it
I'm very interested to see your electricity bills
I use a Mini Numpad as a Stream Deck and it's cheaper that way.
I did that for a while. Hated it once something better came along. Still an ok budget solution!
@@EposVox You're right!
i have the elgato wave 3 and it was 160 when i got it
I love the packaging
wooo, cool, interesting and obviously very beautiful.
The only thing I don't like about elgato is their reliance on their own apps and reliance on windows/mac. I want the option to use linux if I want to.
there is a driverless mode that allows direct access without an app...
Maybe keep the grain a bit down next time, you lose details in parts of the video like the product itself that blows out because its white and is clipping.
The grain doesn’t cause the clipping, the sun moving between when I started recording and when I got to that point did :P
The youtube bitrate really doesn't agree with simulated film grain
Sure it does! The fact that you can see it at all means TH-cam is handling it quite well. It's the same film grain my videos have had for years now. I see no major artifacting at 4K, 1440p, or 1080p.
Doing some additional checking/comparing, this might be the best the film grain has ever shown up in one of my videos, due to some of the framerate shenanigans happening. Really ironic to leave such a comment on a video where there are no consequences to it
@@EposVoxAh, i see. It looked unevenly spread between shadows and highlights, maybe this is how it was behaving on 16mm film vs. high iso noise on cmos. I see my wording was a bit easy to come off as negative, that wasn’t my intention.
1080p60 .... atleat 1440p would of made content abit more future proof as you can just buy a used hd60😅
HD60 doesn’t capture 4k/HDR sources and records to compressed not great formats by comparison
@@EposVox HD60 X*
Their customer service is complete shit. Phones just ring and then say they are closed before their officially listed hours. They are also radio silent on Reddit.
5600 Kevin lights. That is alot of Kevins...
No one said "Kevins".
I’ve gotten used to your 4:3 aspect ratio… this feels weird
hahahaha
You know who loves film grain.. Eposvox.. but you know who hates film grain? TH-cam.. the battle continues!
TH-cam doesn’t hate it these days. You can see it. No major compression artifacting. Everything is good.
@@EposVox Eh, Hate is a strong word, but i'll say it's still imperfect. The cardboard boxes have spots where the grain is coming in softer and harder giving it an inconsistent look. (at least to my eyes). TH-cam is certainly not bad at 4k, but I still just wish it was better.
The Stream Decks - all variants - are where I tended to gasp and say "wow that's expensive" in the past. Then you get your hands on one and realize what it can do and how easy to use it is compared to any cheap alternatives that still won't have a mini display on each button and you realize it's worth every penny. Now I have two on my main PC and two on my racing rig. 😄
I will say the Mini was way overpriced at first and has finally come down to a more reasonable level. Just checked Amazon and it seems to have a list price now of what I got it for on sale back when it was ~89 list. The Stream Deck Neo here would be really compelling if they could get it down to $80, at which point it would render the Mini pointless... so maybe that's why they price them the way they did.
stream decks are to me a huge rip, i use the Touch Portal app on an old 8" tablet i can have as many buttons as i want, for 12$US but IMO elgato is still way overpriced.
Can you program multi-actions on there?
Thanks for the introduction to Touch Portal, it seems really neat!
exactly. stream decks are so over priced, its insane. did exactly what you did - even buying the tablet was cheaper lol
For me, Touch Portal hasn't been the best solution, because my old tablet freezes and drains battery when off, requiring me to put it on charge for a while and boot it up whenever I need to use it. I also don't like to have my phone tied up. Having a dedicated device is useful because it saves time from having to set things up. Already complicated enough with audio mixers/interfaces and mirrorless cameras and capture cards.
Ey, fellow PS 3D Display owner!
Looks like Logitech products. I really hope this is not Corsair trying to make Elgato the new Logitech.
This video looks amazing! The outside shots are 👌 Love that second camera angle too, worth it!
Oh weird! You just tested the mute button on the mic and I could hear the slight pop in my speakers. Oddly enough my living rooms back right speaker is the one that I hear it
That’s… bizarre
Too expensive and no Linux support. I'll stick with Blackmagic products.
So just wondering what mic do you use?
Ah yes, the BlackMagic Mic and Webcam and Stream Deck and Lights, how could I forget those
Blackmagic is cheap now?
It feels like they made these “budget” options just so you’d feel better about getting the full fledged option for just a little more
its how they can justify the cost or entry into the system
I think you just can’t beat stuff found on amazon. My whole setup is using cheap amazon gear that has more features and works better. I’ve tried just about every Elgato product at one point but I think I’m ditching the brand entirely. All I use by them is a basic stream deck now and that’s it