Excellent! I especially love the reference to Diomedes. He is my favorite hero from the Iliad. I’m glad I found your channel. Thanks for the great work.
You are doing amazing work with these videos and this, in particular, was a fascinating topic. A couple, somewhat interrelated, points stand out a bit -- not from your video but just about the history in general: 1) The area being discussed is very small. You can drive from Mycenae to the coast, past Argos, Tiryns, and Midea in less than 30 minutes. It's very surprising that there would be multiple competing kingdoms in such a small area, even if nominally under the command of a single Wanax. 2) The geography of Argos city itself is not at all similar with other Mycenaean citadels. While there are high hills in the surrounding area, Argos proper is very flat.I know Tiryns has the same dilemma, but are there fortifications in Argos city that I perhaps missed? Thanks and I look very much to you next video!
Valid points. I wouldn't call them competing kingdoms though. There is no evidence of any competition between the citadels from 1700 to 1200 BC. Also, Mycenae was a citadel well before Tiryns, Midea and Argos became significant, suggesting that Mycenaeans from Mycenae established those places as palace centers. It's more than likely that all 4 palaces were just ruled from Mycenae by one Wanax.
@@WanaxTV Each vassall "kingdom" would have had a vassal "king", which it seems to several linguistic experts, was called a Lawagetas, one step down from the Wanax. Vassal kingdoms may have extended as far as Thebes, Pylos, and Aetolia.
Fabulous! I went to the Pelloponese in 2001 and saw Mycenae, Tiryns, Argos and Asine, along with Nafplion. We stayed at the town of Tolon, just down the road from Asine. I knew nothing about Asine until I saw it marked on the map. So I walked round the coast and up the hill to the acropolis. It's not big but you can definitely see (and use) both the rock-cut staircase leading to the summit and the remains of the acropolis building. With stunning views all across the Gulf of Argos. Both at Mycenae and at Asine, you can still see the remains of the most intimate personal object within the acroploises - the toilet (urinal) in the corner of one of the rooms. If Perseus did live at Mycenae, he most definitely used this! It's a magical place with intoxicating mythology and history, literally EVERYWHERE. Thanks for posting!
.. Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Holy Spirit Can give you peace guidance and purpose and the Lord will John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus
On the contrary, the myths of Argos in the Bronze Age were stolen from others when Dorian Iron Age Argos became powerful. In the Bronze Age, the city's citadel of Larissa was small and its walls were insignificant compared to its neighbours. Much smaller population too. Argos was reimagined in Homer's time, but then Homer had no memory of the Hittite Empire either!
Very colourful summary, WTV, but obviously based more in mythology than archaeology or written records. You yourself wisely noted how Argos never really became powerful until the 7th century BCE and "seized mythology for itself" i.e., stole myth from others about its past. Some experts have suggested that the Bronze Age myths of Argos actually belonged to other cities, especially since the citadel and the walls at Bronze Age Argos were comparatively insignificant and no Linear B writing was found there. That's why I made my protagonist, Diomedes, in my novel, *The Diomedeia*, the King of Tiryns of the Cyclopean Walls instead of Argos. Hope you approve.
Yes, Argos definitely capitalized on the mythology of Argolis, which probably concerned Mycenae and Tiryns more so than Argos itself. Also, it's possible that in Bronze Age "Argos" just meant territory controlled by Mycenae.
@@WanaxTV The "Argives" originally meant from the Argolid Plain, right? (I am using "Danaans" as a more general panhellenic word to replace "Hellenes".)
Do you have any videos on the Kingdom of Lydia? Is their even much sorces on them? I always wondered what ethicity and culture they were aside from partly Greek. Extremely slept on civ.
@@gregorynixonAUTHOR I tried to balance it out. There is not much evidence on the Mycenaean site of Argos, besides ruins of a small citadel on the Larissa hill.
Did you know that in persian wars Argos was an allie of the persian empire and destroyed totally the great Mycenae which send 70 warriors to fight with the 300 in Thermopylae
0:44 Myceanaean Greece is first civilisation in Europe? Before Myceanaean’s came (Before BC 1700) there were Minoan and Luwian civilisations in Greek Mainland. The city names ended with -nthos and - ssos are Luwian city names in Greek Mainland. Most probably they were pushed to West Anatolia shores by Myceanaeans as Aeolians, Ionians pushed to Anatolia by Dorians. There is a possibility that Trojans also pushed to Anatolia from Greek mainland. Deciphering of Minoan Linear A writings which are between BC 1.800 to 1.450 would reveal more informations about the region.
At the age of 60 now that I'm much older l find ancient Greek history very interesting but when I was a student in Greek school and later in college remembering all these places and dates and happenings and wars and events tjat took place over 3000 years ago writing tests and exams actually sucked. It was a nightmare to achieve high marks😊😊. Thanks for the informative video
Not by legend, but Homer certainly embraced the mythology of Iron Age Dorian Argos. In fact, Homer knew very little about the Bronze Age Mycenaean era except for their weapons and famous names. He did not know what chariot warfare was like.
I wouldn't go that far. If anything, I think that Argos used Homer to their advantage when it comes to mythology. It is very possible that "Argos" in Bronze Age chiefly meant territory of the Argive plain, which includes Mycenae (capital), Tiryns, Midea and Argos (small fort).
@@LuisAldamiz "Argives" in Iliad means all Greeks fighting against Troy, synonymous with Achaeans and Danaans. I think that in Bronze Age, before the Iliad, "Argos" could've meant much more than the city of Argos. In some myths, Agamemnon, Orestes, etc were described as kings of Argos. It was clear that their royal seat was not on the small Larissa hill in Argos, but in the Mycenaean palace. So it's possible that when a myth says "Agamemnon, the king of Argos", Argos really refers to the territory (that includes city of Argos), but not specifically the city of Argos itself.
@@WanaxTV - I see your point but I doubt that's the case. I can see how Argos or Argolis was the kingdom of Agamnenon and that he was clearly the hegemon of all Greece, something that the Hittites also acknowledge of his predecessors when they talk of the "brother" (equal) King of Ahhiyawa. Based on the overall records, Achaea/Achaeans (Ekwesh, Ahhiyawa) seems to be the most traditional name of the Greeks until the end of the 13th century BCE, while Danaoi (Denesh) becomes more common for some reason in the 12th century and maybe later (Dan tribe as legacy of the Denesh in the Levant). However nobody else but Homer talks of Argos or Argives with this meaning, so I would lean as poetic license using the name of the primary realm of the "Great King" extensively for all his vassals or allies.
@@gregorynixonAUTHOR ,wir kennen 3 Herkules es gab bestimmt mehr ,die Arkadians auf Peloponnes sagen sie existieren bevor den 🌒 das ist vielleicht Mythos 😊
Inachos sounds to me a variant of Wanax or rather wa-na-ka, as it was written. The same name appears with variants as Aeneas (in the Roman or probably Etruscan-by-origin legend) but more weirdly in Far West Europe, where in Basque and Scottish traditions is again name of founder monarchs: Eneko (romanized as Íñigo) and Angus/Oenegus respectively. This to me implies that, before Indoeuropeanization, there were Mediterranean interactions that moved the word "wanax" (variants of it anyhow) all around and which in Far West Europe persisted until the Middle Ages somehow. Another such wanderwort (wandering word) is the one for city (ili, iri, uri, uli in the Mediterranean, uru in Mesopotamia and India), which agan scattered to the Far West (ili in Iberian, hiri in modern Basque but eli in history, uli or uri often in toponimy). In the Eastern Mediterranean it is not only found in the Aegean region (Ilion, Elis, etc.) but also in the Levant (iri-salem = Jerusalem, iriko = Jericho) and it may even be behind Latin "urbs" and possibly related Tartessian "uba/oba", which also may have meant city.
Aengus/Óingus is a proper noun that comes from Proto-Celtic: Oinogustus, aka One Desire. Has no relationship with the word wanax. Update: Eneko also has no relationship with wanax, and comes from Basque: ene (my) and a diminutive suffix -ko, and the name means: My little one.
@@mercianthane2503 - Yeah, sure, coincidences... I don't believe in "coincidences", sorry. Why all those names happen to be those of legendary or semi-legendary founder kings? The Aquitainian diminutive would be -sko, sometimes -ska, for example "sardeska": "little pitchfork", Belasko: "littler crow". Your proposed etymology would produce "enesko" and anyhow it'd be an absurd name when the actual ones were usually in the line of animals (Otsoa/Lop = Wolf, Bele = Crow or Raven, Belasko = Little Crow, Aznar = Fox?, Urraka = Magpie, etc.) Nowadays the Western Basque (Vardulian) diminutive -txo is mainstream however, and judging on the Navarrese (also kingly) name Sancho, it may have been that way for a very long time also in Navarre (especially if it means "little saint", most parsimonious IMO, if its close correlate Gartzia/García means "Grace". Debatable I know). There is plenty and growing archaeological documentation of East-West Mediterranean interection since the Copper Age. For example the ivory used in that time in Andalusia (but not in Portugal) came from Syrian elephants, for example Western dolmenic megalithism reached West Asia (first of all Syria and Jordan) in the early Bronze Age (incl. at least one Portuguese "idolo oculado"), for example the very intense cultural interaction between Mycenaean Greece and El Argar civilization (phase B, c. 1550-1300 BCE) in SE Spain (which may well be the realistic scenario for whatever kernel of truth is in Herakles' legends). The "ili" wanderwort is another piece of evidence. I'd even dare say that the Iberian alphasyllabary script (most clear in the Iron Age but arguably dating as far back as the Copper Age) is a modification of the Cypriot script (in turn related to the Cretan one). It is in this context of many interactions that clearly add up to demonstrate a long E-W Mediterranean (and even Atlantic) interaction where I suggest that Wanax/Wanaka was also a wanderwort, which may have even be related to the replacement of the older South Iberian stag veneration by the bull veneration an the related only Iberian (Tartessian) myth ever compiled, that of Gargoris and Habis, which reminds somewhat of the Umbaba and Gilgamesh story about the origins of civilization and kingship.
@@LuisAldamiz My sources: G. Toner, M. Ní Mhaonaigh, S. Arbuthnot, D. Wodtko, M.-L. Theuerkauf, editors (2019), “Oengus”, in eDIL: Electronic Dictionary of the Irish Language Dinneen, Patrick S. (1904), “Aonġus”, in Foclóir Gaeḋilge agus Béarla, 1st edition, Dublin: Irish Texts Society, page 35 Finck, F. N. (1899) Die araner mundart (in German), volume II, Marburg: Elwert’sche Verlagsbuchhandlung, page 26 Finck, F. N. (1899) Die araner mundart (in German), volume II, Marburg: Elwert’sche Verlagsbuchhandlung, page 257 Íñigo; in: Roberto Faure, Diccionario de nombres propios, 2007 Your sources: Your own speculation. So, keep your fantasies up if you want. Yours is not true linguistics but made up rubbish.
@@mercianthane2503 - So you don't have your own opinion, only that of others? That's called scholasticism or "appeal to authority" and it is not science, in fact it is enemy of science. I critically follow Federico Krutwig, who initiated this kind of exploration, which he called "following Ariadne's thread" in the mid 20th century. Never personally met him even if we were neighbors when I was a kid and he was in old age but I respect his erudite insight and unorthodoxia. Just keep beating that dead horse of lazy scholasticism... it leads nowhere.
Very possible. That would explain Argos having the most extensive mythology of all city-states. Most of that was probably Mycenae, with city of Argos being just a part of it.
@@WanaxTV Indeed. My personal take is that the Olympians we know from Classical Greek mythology were the gods of the elite. That is why we see their names in Linear B tablets, and not of local tribal deities. We still do not have a proper understanding of bronze age Greek mythology because the Hellenic folks just didn't wrote down those stories, they survived in oral traditions and, just like in Rome, became pseudo history.
@@mercianthane2503 Interesting take. I'd think that Mycenaean pantheon probably evolved from 1800 to 1200 BC, especially as they incorporated other territories. Poseidon and Zeus seem to be important gods from the beginning, but their exact positions might've slightly changed over the centuries.
@@WanaxTV Indeed! There is a book by J. Dolan called: Taliesin's Map - The comparative guide to Celtic Mythology, and, if I'm not mistaken, he proposed that Theseus is a Mithraic God, like Zeus. Theseus's birth echoes thar of Arthur. His father Aegeus sleeps with Aethra, daughter of Pittheus, because he is drunk (this was Pittheus caused his drunkenness). After this Theseus is born, yet he is hidden away with his mom because the king is afraid of the Pallantides, who will kill Theseus because of dynastic issues. We all know Aegeus leaves a sword and sandals under a rock, reminiscent of Excalibur and Odin's sword in the tree, and Theseus will be able to lift the rock if he is heroic enough. The story is similar to the birth of Zeus. The same he is protected by his mother in a cave, otherwise Chronos will swallow him. J. Dolen proposed that Aegeus is a parallel to Poseidon, perhaps a more archaic version of this deity, because Aegeus too is related to the waters and is a king, and he can be compared to the vedic god Varuna, and his incarnation in the Mahabharata: Pandu. Again. It is an interesting theory which could mean that in the old heroic Greek tales we find archaic traditions of the gods.
It's always a good day or night to find another video on Bronze Age Greece.
And few are as comprehensive as yours. 😻
Thanks!
Such an interesting video...hoping to visit Argos and Mycenae in fall! Thanks for making this!
Hope you get to see Pylos as well
@@QalOrt yes, that's on the list too!
All Mycenaean sites in Argolis are very short distance from each other. You could go through them all in a day or two!
Excellent! I especially love the reference to Diomedes. He is my favorite hero from the Iliad. I’m glad I found your channel. Thanks for the great work.
That's why I made him and his post-Troy adventures the hero of my *Diomedeia* novels, part II in process.
Excellent. Thank you
Appreciate it!
Hey, just wanted to say that your videos are great. I found your channel a couple of days ago, and I can't stop watching. I really love your content!
You are doing amazing work with these videos and this, in particular, was a fascinating topic. A couple, somewhat interrelated, points stand out a bit -- not from your video but just about the history in general:
1) The area being discussed is very small. You can drive from Mycenae to the coast, past Argos, Tiryns, and Midea in less than 30 minutes. It's very surprising that there would be multiple competing kingdoms in such a small area, even if nominally under the command of a single Wanax.
2) The geography of Argos city itself is not at all similar with other Mycenaean citadels. While there are high hills in the surrounding area, Argos proper is very flat.I know Tiryns has the same dilemma, but are there fortifications in Argos city that I perhaps missed?
Thanks and I look very much to you next video!
No, you're right. Bronze Age Argos had walls and the Larissa citadel, but they were insignificant compared to Tiryns & Mykenai.
Valid points. I wouldn't call them competing kingdoms though. There is no evidence of any competition between the citadels from 1700 to 1200 BC. Also, Mycenae was a citadel well before Tiryns, Midea and Argos became significant, suggesting that Mycenaeans from Mycenae established those places as palace centers. It's more than likely that all 4 palaces were just ruled from Mycenae by one Wanax.
@@WanaxTV Each vassall "kingdom" would have had a vassal "king", which it seems to several linguistic experts, was called a Lawagetas, one step down from the Wanax. Vassal kingdoms may have extended as far as Thebes, Pylos, and Aetolia.
Fabulous! I went to the Pelloponese in 2001 and saw Mycenae, Tiryns, Argos and Asine, along with Nafplion. We stayed at the town of Tolon, just down the road from Asine. I knew nothing about Asine until I saw it marked on the map. So I walked round the coast and up the hill to the acropolis. It's not big but you can definitely see (and use) both the rock-cut staircase leading to the summit and the remains of the acropolis building. With stunning views all across the Gulf of Argos. Both at Mycenae and at Asine, you can still see the remains of the most intimate personal object within the acroploises - the toilet (urinal) in the corner of one of the rooms. If Perseus did live at Mycenae, he most definitely used this! It's a magical place with intoxicating mythology and history, literally EVERYWHERE.
Thanks for posting!
That's awesome! Argolis is definitely worth visiting! So many Mycenaean forts there.
..
Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven
There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today
Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell
Come to Jesus Christ today
Jesus Christ is only way to heaven
Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void
Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today
Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today
Holy Spirit Can give you peace guidance and purpose and the Lord will
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Mark 1.15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Jesus
Great video
Excellent!
very informative!
Thanks Veriox!
really interesting!
Will there be a video about mainland Greece in the bronze age before the Mycenaeans(3200 - 1700 BC)?
Yes, there will!
Argos is by far my favourite Mycenaean city-state I feel that it’s very underrated as well.
On the contrary, the myths of Argos in the Bronze Age were stolen from others when Dorian Iron Age Argos became powerful. In the Bronze Age, the city's citadel of Larissa was small and its walls were insignificant compared to its neighbours. Much smaller population too. Argos was reimagined in Homer's time, but then Homer had no memory of the Hittite Empire either!
Are you going to do a video on Gla?
Possible, together with the Boeotian cities. It looks like Gla was connected to Orchomenos.
Very colourful summary, WTV, but obviously based more in mythology than archaeology or written records. You yourself wisely noted how Argos never really became powerful until the 7th century BCE and "seized mythology for itself" i.e., stole myth from others about its past. Some experts have suggested that the Bronze Age myths of Argos actually belonged to other cities, especially since the citadel and the walls at Bronze Age Argos were comparatively insignificant and no Linear B writing was found there. That's why I made my protagonist, Diomedes, in my novel, *The Diomedeia*, the King of Tiryns of the Cyclopean Walls instead of Argos. Hope you approve.
Yes, Argos definitely capitalized on the mythology of Argolis, which probably concerned Mycenae and Tiryns more so than Argos itself. Also, it's possible that in Bronze Age "Argos" just meant territory controlled by Mycenae.
@@WanaxTV The "Argives" originally meant from the Argolid Plain, right? (I am using "Danaans" as a more general panhellenic word to replace "Hellenes".)
Going down to old Argos
Do you have any videos on the Kingdom of Lydia?
Is their even much sorces on them? I always wondered what ethicity and culture they were aside from partly Greek. Extremely slept on civ.
Lydia is in future plans ever since the old videos I made on Phrygia. It will require a whole series for the Lydian history.
fantastic
Great video, I like that you talk about the archaeological side of this topic too
Barely.
@@gregorynixonAUTHOR I tried to balance it out. There is not much evidence on the Mycenaean site of Argos, besides ruins of a small citadel on the Larissa hill.
@@WanaxTV It's a very good video but it's essentially based in what is mythologically known with some realistic interpretation of the myths.
what's the animated background at the intro from?
Can someone tell me the name of the music theme for videos about mycenean world?
Did you know that in persian wars Argos was an allie of the persian empire and destroyed totally the great Mycenae which send 70 warriors to fight with the 300 in Thermopylae
Argos and Thebes were often betrayers of Panhellenism.
Do you have one planned for Thebes? Been waiting for that one.
Yes, planning Thebes in near future. Also, mythology of Thebes is possible for next year.
@@WanaxTV Please don't play down the selfish villainy of the Thebans in some many cases. The Persians were not the only one to whom they sold out.
How do i advance to the bronze age with the romans i need a stable and a archery but i cant build
I love the Heracleidae. What’s not to love? Thanks
0:44 Myceanaean Greece is first civilisation in Europe? Before Myceanaean’s came (Before BC 1700) there were Minoan and Luwian civilisations in Greek Mainland. The city names ended with -nthos and - ssos are Luwian city names in Greek Mainland. Most probably they were pushed to West Anatolia shores by Myceanaeans as Aeolians, Ionians pushed to Anatolia by Dorians. There is a possibility that Trojans also pushed to Anatolia from Greek mainland. Deciphering of Minoan Linear A writings which are between BC 1.800 to 1.450 would reveal more informations about the region.
He clearly says 'Mainland Greece'. He knows that the Minoans existed and thrived in Crete. He's made many videos about it.
No, He is not saying Mainland of Greece. He is saying continental Europe.
Continental europe what didn't you understand here exactly
@@wankawanka3053 "Continental" meaning not outlying islands. Lycian (Lukkan) civilization on mainland Hellas? Mythology.
I think this TH-camr is greek and just a little biased, but the videos are still cool
What about Mygdalia? What is the origins of Mygdalia?
At the age of 60 now that I'm much older l find ancient Greek history very interesting but when I was a student in Greek school and later in college remembering all these places and dates and happenings and wars and events tjat took place over 3000 years ago writing tests and exams actually sucked. It was a nightmare to achieve high marks😊😊. Thanks for the informative video
A question remains open to me: did the Homer of the Iliad work for Argos or was himself Argive?
Not by legend, but Homer certainly embraced the mythology of Iron Age Dorian Argos. In fact, Homer knew very little about the Bronze Age Mycenaean era except for their weapons and famous names. He did not know what chariot warfare was like.
I wouldn't go that far. If anything, I think that Argos used Homer to their advantage when it comes to mythology. It is very possible that "Argos" in Bronze Age chiefly meant territory of the Argive plain, which includes Mycenae (capital), Tiryns, Midea and Argos (small fort).
@@WanaxTV - You mean that by "Argives", the Iliad means people from Argolis?
@@LuisAldamiz "Argives" in Iliad means all Greeks fighting against Troy, synonymous with Achaeans and Danaans.
I think that in Bronze Age, before the Iliad, "Argos" could've meant much more than the city of Argos.
In some myths, Agamemnon, Orestes, etc were described as kings of Argos. It was clear that their royal seat was not on the small Larissa hill in Argos, but in the Mycenaean palace. So it's possible that when a myth says "Agamemnon, the king of Argos", Argos really refers to the territory (that includes city of Argos), but not specifically the city of Argos itself.
@@WanaxTV - I see your point but I doubt that's the case. I can see how Argos or Argolis was the kingdom of Agamnenon and that he was clearly the hegemon of all Greece, something that the Hittites also acknowledge of his predecessors when they talk of the "brother" (equal) King of Ahhiyawa.
Based on the overall records, Achaea/Achaeans (Ekwesh, Ahhiyawa) seems to be the most traditional name of the Greeks until the end of the 13th century BCE, while Danaoi (Denesh) becomes more common for some reason in the 12th century and maybe later (Dan tribe as legacy of the Denesh in the Levant). However nobody else but Homer talks of Argos or Argives with this meaning, so I would lean as poetic license using the name of the primary realm of the "Great King" extensively for all his vassals or allies.
Yay, Argos!
The sons of Hercules took over a lot… The Peloponnese and Lydia, and Mysia. Lydia they controlled for over 500 years.
Mythology.
@@gregorynixonAUTHOR ,wir kennen 3 Herkules es gab bestimmt mehr ,die Arkadians auf Peloponnes sagen sie existieren bevor den 🌒 das ist vielleicht Mythos 😊
For the algorithm.
For Argos!
Ask Macs it's their birthplace although a bit later on Argeades - Timenides Dorians
Yamas!
Inachos sounds to me a variant of Wanax or rather wa-na-ka, as it was written. The same name appears with variants as Aeneas (in the Roman or probably Etruscan-by-origin legend) but more weirdly in Far West Europe, where in Basque and Scottish traditions is again name of founder monarchs: Eneko (romanized as Íñigo) and Angus/Oenegus respectively. This to me implies that, before Indoeuropeanization, there were Mediterranean interactions that moved the word "wanax" (variants of it anyhow) all around and which in Far West Europe persisted until the Middle Ages somehow.
Another such wanderwort (wandering word) is the one for city (ili, iri, uri, uli in the Mediterranean, uru in Mesopotamia and India), which agan scattered to the Far West (ili in Iberian, hiri in modern Basque but eli in history, uli or uri often in toponimy). In the Eastern Mediterranean it is not only found in the Aegean region (Ilion, Elis, etc.) but also in the Levant (iri-salem = Jerusalem, iriko = Jericho) and it may even be behind Latin "urbs" and possibly related Tartessian "uba/oba", which also may have meant city.
Aengus/Óingus is a proper noun that comes from Proto-Celtic: Oinogustus, aka One Desire. Has no relationship with the word wanax.
Update:
Eneko also has no relationship with wanax, and comes from Basque: ene (my) and a diminutive suffix -ko, and the name means: My little one.
@@mercianthane2503 - Yeah, sure, coincidences...
I don't believe in "coincidences", sorry.
Why all those names happen to be those of legendary or semi-legendary founder kings?
The Aquitainian diminutive would be -sko, sometimes -ska, for example "sardeska": "little pitchfork", Belasko: "littler crow". Your proposed etymology would produce "enesko" and anyhow it'd be an absurd name when the actual ones were usually in the line of animals (Otsoa/Lop = Wolf, Bele = Crow or Raven, Belasko = Little Crow, Aznar = Fox?, Urraka = Magpie, etc.) Nowadays the Western Basque (Vardulian) diminutive -txo is mainstream however, and judging on the Navarrese (also kingly) name Sancho, it may have been that way for a very long time also in Navarre (especially if it means "little saint", most parsimonious IMO, if its close correlate Gartzia/García means "Grace". Debatable I know).
There is plenty and growing archaeological documentation of East-West Mediterranean interection since the Copper Age. For example the ivory used in that time in Andalusia (but not in Portugal) came from Syrian elephants, for example Western dolmenic megalithism reached West Asia (first of all Syria and Jordan) in the early Bronze Age (incl. at least one Portuguese "idolo oculado"), for example the very intense cultural interaction between Mycenaean Greece and El Argar civilization (phase B, c. 1550-1300 BCE) in SE Spain (which may well be the realistic scenario for whatever kernel of truth is in Herakles' legends).
The "ili" wanderwort is another piece of evidence. I'd even dare say that the Iberian alphasyllabary script (most clear in the Iron Age but arguably dating as far back as the Copper Age) is a modification of the Cypriot script (in turn related to the Cretan one). It is in this context of many interactions that clearly add up to demonstrate a long E-W Mediterranean (and even Atlantic) interaction where I suggest that Wanax/Wanaka was also a wanderwort, which may have even be related to the replacement of the older South Iberian stag veneration by the bull veneration an the related only Iberian (Tartessian) myth ever compiled, that of Gargoris and Habis, which reminds somewhat of the Umbaba and Gilgamesh story about the origins of civilization and kingship.
@@LuisAldamiz
My sources:
G. Toner, M. Ní Mhaonaigh, S. Arbuthnot, D. Wodtko, M.-L. Theuerkauf, editors (2019), “Oengus”, in eDIL: Electronic Dictionary of the Irish Language
Dinneen, Patrick S. (1904), “Aonġus”, in Foclóir Gaeḋilge agus Béarla, 1st edition, Dublin: Irish Texts Society, page 35
Finck, F. N. (1899) Die araner mundart (in German), volume II, Marburg: Elwert’sche Verlagsbuchhandlung, page 26
Finck, F. N. (1899) Die araner mundart (in German), volume II, Marburg: Elwert’sche Verlagsbuchhandlung, page 257
Íñigo; in: Roberto Faure, Diccionario de nombres propios, 2007
Your sources:
Your own speculation. So, keep your fantasies up if you want. Yours is not true linguistics but made up rubbish.
@@mercianthane2503 - So you don't have your own opinion, only that of others? That's called scholasticism or "appeal to authority" and it is not science, in fact it is enemy of science.
I critically follow Federico Krutwig, who initiated this kind of exploration, which he called "following Ariadne's thread" in the mid 20th century. Never personally met him even if we were neighbors when I was a kid and he was in old age but I respect his erudite insight and unorthodoxia.
Just keep beating that dead horse of lazy scholasticism... it leads nowhere.
@@mercianthane2503Don't bother with him his sources are always his own opinion 😂😂😂
The Argive Mythology seems to be local traditions of different hellenic gods from these cities.
Very possible. That would explain Argos having the most extensive mythology of all city-states. Most of that was probably Mycenae, with city of Argos being just a part of it.
@@WanaxTV
Indeed. My personal take is that the Olympians we know from Classical Greek mythology were the gods of the elite. That is why we see their names in Linear B tablets, and not of local tribal deities.
We still do not have a proper understanding of bronze age Greek mythology because the Hellenic folks just didn't wrote down those stories, they survived in oral traditions and, just like in Rome, became pseudo history.
@@mercianthane2503 Interesting take. I'd think that Mycenaean pantheon probably evolved from 1800 to 1200 BC, especially as they incorporated other territories.
Poseidon and Zeus seem to be important gods from the beginning, but their exact positions might've slightly changed over the centuries.
@@WanaxTV
Indeed!
There is a book by J. Dolan called: Taliesin's Map - The comparative guide to Celtic Mythology, and, if I'm not mistaken, he proposed that Theseus is a Mithraic God, like Zeus.
Theseus's birth echoes thar of Arthur. His father Aegeus sleeps with Aethra, daughter of Pittheus, because he is drunk (this was Pittheus caused his drunkenness). After this Theseus is born, yet he is hidden away with his mom because the king is afraid of the Pallantides, who will kill Theseus because of dynastic issues.
We all know Aegeus leaves a sword and sandals under a rock, reminiscent of Excalibur and Odin's sword in the tree, and Theseus will be able to lift the rock if he is heroic enough.
The story is similar to the birth of Zeus. The same he is protected by his mother in a cave, otherwise Chronos will swallow him.
J. Dolen proposed that Aegeus is a parallel to Poseidon, perhaps a more archaic version of this deity, because Aegeus too is related to the waters and is a king, and he can be compared to the vedic god Varuna, and his incarnation in the Mahabharata: Pandu.
Again. It is an interesting theory which could mean that in the old heroic Greek tales we find archaic traditions of the gods.
AGREAD DINASTY is MACEDONIAN. KARAN first KING before 28 centuries.
ALL KINGS and TSARS in MAKEDONIJA are M A C E D O N I A N S ! ! !