Humans can engineer anything. Lots of naysayers throughout history with most technological developments (eg Horse to Cars, Analogue to Digital anything, internet etc). I'm pretty sure there will be self-contained battery compartments with inlet valve that can be liquid filled to suppress thermal runaway. Solutions are easy and if benefit is worth the cost, innovation will continue
A company in Queensland Australia enquired about buying 20 electric trucks. He went to the electricity company with the power requirements. They came back and said that's more power than is used in his entire region and it was not possible to supply that power
@@musicbruv 500 miles / 800 kms is not enough? Sure long haul driver changing use cases will be a problem, but Intra city usage is where it excels. Look at how the Tesla Semi with PepsiCo in CA is being used. Charge whilst being loaded. The idiot on this channel mostly reasons by analogy (a dangerous thing to do as most analogies break down all too easily, if you actually stop and think about it) and, and this is his biggest mistake, that it’s going to be an instantaneous change. It isn’t and it’s won’t be. It will change over time, infrastructure will be built out and the economics will dictate what goes. You’re already seeing this with the early close of coal power stations, they can not compete. Tesla has built out 50,000 global superchargers. That has taken time and has scaled with the number of their cars on the road. I rarely use them myself. Trip being the exception. I used a standard 10A charger on mine for the first 6 or so months. Then I put in a level 2 home charger. How long does it take me to charge? About 30 seconds. 15 to plug in, 15 to unplug. I’ve not noticed it on my power bill. $8-$12 ish to charge. No stress.
Do you think 100% of the power on the electricity grid is produced by fossil fuels? Or is it 50%, 25%, or 10%?....Whatever it is in the country you live it gets less and less each year as renewables replace coal and gas. Coal and gas use in France and the UK are now under 10% of electric production....most of it is nuclear, wind, hydro and solar. 10 years ago coal produced 40% of electricity in the USA, now it is under 20%...try to back up your arguments with some data, don't just make throwaway statements that are easily proved to be false.
In the UK there is a max weight of trucks on the road. So if you have to load up the truck with a couple of tons of batteries, that reduces the payload thus requiring more journeys to deliver the same amount of goods.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
You realise that electric Volvo was showing a range of around 100 miles per charge and it would have only been partly loaded with that fire tender on board. Now imagine what the range would be like if you hooked it up to a full 200 ton road train set up and the range of the truck before it needs a charge would be comically short - perhaps 40 miles. You could measure a single journey from NSW to Alice Springs using pages of a calendar.
@iscadeanbullshit!!! This Volvo has about half the battery size of that tesla and also probably the same amount of torque if not more. The 500 miles rating is including a very specific route which in Australia is mostly flat meaning not alot of regenerative braking....
That will never happen. BUT a B double could, stop ebery town to charge,, IF electricity is available As for an electric fire truck,, maybe ok in the metro area. Maybe a bushfire can check its suitability
@iscadean 500 mile range my arse, besides a diesel truck can travel between 1,300 miles to 1,600 miles on full fuel tanks. Load up the Tesla and start going up grades it will quickly use up its battery. Don't try and say regeneration going down hill will get all that lost power back, there are grades in America the Tesla likely would never even make it to the top of the mountain if it was fully loaded.
Yes MGUY is the liar. 300km 186 miles from 540kwh Battery, that's NOT POSSIBLE. That's an insane improbable 2.9 kWh per mile = 0.345 Mi/kWh. Worst case scenario that should just require 400kwh of battery capacity. That's eating up 2.2kWh per mile = 0.45 mi/kWh. His numbers are a LIE, MGUY is the one than bend the truth.
Yes, a good motto, and apt here. Come back in 2030. EVs will be the default option, chargers will be ubiquitous, and battery charging will be about 5 minutes, and all the fear uncertainty and doubt will evaporate as if it never existed.
@@dansanger5340 EV sales in Australia have peaked at 8% and have flatlined, and actually fell slightly over the last 3 months. Time for you to wake up Champ.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
I think it was " Geoff buys cars" who did an explanation of charging ice vehicles vs ev. The takeaway was that each ice pump had a separate line to the fuel tank of servo and all pumps could fill at full speed, but ev chargers share the total power available, so cars and trucks will not just use 1 hour each if the total of ev chargers used share a lower total capacity of each charger unit than the supply put in by the providers ie energex etc. I may not be explaining this clearly but it is easy to grasp once explained. Worth checking out better explanation than mine.
The MacMaster drove into the only remaining free EV charging bay (of which there were four bays in total). So you had four EVs charging simultaneously however there was a degradation in the grid which meant they had to decide which two drivers would remove themselves from charging to allow the other two to charge within a reasonable time. You just can't make this stuff up.
I love when people uses Geoff absurd lies as a source. Even Electrify America who has beef with Tesla uses Tesla MegaPacks in some of it's sites. On Site lower energy density STATIONARY BATTERY is exactly the energy buffer that acts like fuel tank. This is already implemented in many locations and negates your hypothetical. This kind of misinformation is what happens when you have no clue what you are talking about. Using falsehood RUMORs as your source.
In that video, Geoff also explains that if there is not excess in the grid, the chargers get reduced power to share - or none at all. Given that most western nations have gone down the solar/windmill route and shut down reliable power generation (generators that can produce a steady and relaible *amount* of power), often EV charge stations get only a fraction of the power they *could* transmit to the EV.
They are beholden to the prevalent zeitgeist green left climate change ideology. Many young people work at those companies, who have been thoroughly indoctrinated at university. They don't care about practical limitations, they are 'believers'...
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
I asked a British Gas van driver at a retail park who was charging his EV vehicle how much time he lost each day charging. He told me about 2 hours. This wasted time will obviously go on to customers bills. As if Gas and electricity bills are not high enough already ! This madness MUST STOP !
@@AlanWilliams-su4bs You have been brain washed. I have just bought a Brand New 2.2 litre Mazda Diesel car. Watch MacMaster Electric cars THEY ARE NOT THE FUTURE - th-cam.com/video/OfM2ih3B5QA/w-d-xo.html
Truck drivers are required, by law, to keep a record of their time/trip as they have a maximum number of hours to drive during a 24 hour period. This does not apply to driverless rigs.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
We have the same virtual signalling insanity. A concrete company here in New Zealand bought a electric concrete truck which obviously is only used in Wellington which is the left/green idiocracy capital. It has to be an eight wheeler to carry the massive weight of the battery which weighs two tonnes and is massive and site behind the cab. The truck costs $615,000. A regular concrete truck costs between $200,000 to $300,000. It will never make its money back but is purely to virtual signal to the government.(Thats why its in Wellington.)
I've been making this point since day 1. Just imagine what is going to happen when everyone at a tourist town or ski resort or beach all need to leave at 4pm on Sunday to get back home ready for work Monday morning. There is going to be a queue of up to 2,000 cars and if every car could charge in half an hour - which they cant it would take 4 days for all the cars to charge if there was 10 chargers being used 24 hrs a day with 0 seconds to change cars between charges. When the number of ev's gets up to about 25% of the cars on the road - they are fooked!
What makes you think people will need to charge at the resort to get home? How many day trippers drive to the beach or ski resort from further than 250 miles away, unless they have come for the week. Even then, most people will be topping up on a slow charger overnight while they are sleeping and they won't all be doing it at the same time. The 'impossible hurdles' the anti-EV zealots see in the inevitable electrification of transport are much exaggerated.
Because the resorts here are hundreds of kilometers from the major cities, Sydney is about 480km from Thredbo for instance so yeah, they are going to charge at the resort.@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270
Im sure it does and Norway's area is 385,000 sq kilometers and here it is 7.7 million. Which is a bit of difference and its pretty usual to not see towns or cities for 200km on highways. How many countries could you go through in Europe if you drove 200km because here you could drive 500km and not see a building.
Not sure if my maths is correct, but according to Volvo specs, one of their FH-16 6X4 diesel prime movers has a 610 litre fuel tank either side. It uses approx 30 litres per 100km. Brisbane to Canberra about 1,200 km. Would use about 360 litres from it's 1,220 tank capacity for that trip. Even pulling it's heaviest load and in the worst, least fuel efficient circumstances, it would easily get to Canberra and back with fuel to spare. I will happily stand corrected if someone can point out how I've got this wrong.
That's exactly what they are - thank you for formally naming it. Electricity transmits energy, it's not in itself a fuel. To produce energy, something must burn (starting with the Sun, of course).
Excellent term! Recently, I came up with the term ECE... External combustion engine, for when they catch fire. Thought it wouldn't take long to find a discussion to use it, but oddly, it hasn't come up.
....And don't forget the incredible power-grid loading for just ONE of these 240-charger stations in a town. At 150kw each charger, that's an enormous 36 Megawatt allowance! The same power requirement for a town of 20,000 people! We're talking a large 66,000volt substation needed to for that one fuel stop. It's a huge footprint. Probably 6000 square feet of land. Bonkers.
The payload of the truck is significantly reduced due to the weight of the EV battery. I have seen figures of seven tonne reductions. Overall an expensive truck, trip time increase and lost payload. What a great idea.
The Tesla Semi can haul just as much as a diesel semi. Regulations have changed to allow the GVW for zero emission trucks to be 2 tonnes higher. Losing the big engine and gearbox, adding the battery and motor makes an electric semi about 4 tonnes heavier than the diesel. But battery energy density is not standing still, making this truck 5 years ago would have meant a 5 tonne deficit, energy density of batteries improves year on year and we are only at the early stages of electrification of ground transportation which is inevitable and a huge benefit all around.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 There are some good points you made, battery density has increased year to year and regulations allowing for a higher GVWR for electric-powered trucks kind of puts them in their only category. One thing you have to think about is the generation of the electric needed to recharge those trucks, truck stops along the interstates will probably need a supplemental power source to help with the increased demand. Depending on the location they could have 10 acres of solar panels with windmills in between them and/or a smaller scale nuclear or natural gas fired plant. Maybe a large scale stationary diesel powered generator with at least an output of 1Mw which could only handle 4 trucks at a time and have one every 200 miles or so along the interstate. At least here in U.S.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270bullshit!!! The tesla semi is over 1000hp doing the job of 500hp diesel trucks! In Australia 650hp diesel trucks hauls about 4x the load of that tesla so nothing to compare
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 diesel trucks have also been improving significantly on fuel economy too! We might even see in the future diesel electric truck that works like trains to still provide over tousands of miles of range.
The difficulty in doing a calculation of the chargers needed, is that you need information about the volume of traffic along the routes. You have a daily average and then you have peak season spikes. The problem with a queue is that it rises exponentially once a system is at capacity. This afternoon I filled my wifes car and I doubt I was at the petrol station for more than 3 minutes. So for a well designed petrol station on a major route like the Hume Highway they can really turn over customers very quickly. Plus the fact that you have a lot of petrol stations along that route means you can disperse your queue. When you couple that with ICE vehicles have quite long fuel ranges, it means they don’t need to fill up that often. As others have commented, it is not just a question of installing a charging station, you also need to create the generating and transmission infrastructure to deliver the flow of electricity to deal with peak demand. The footprint you need if you want to use wind and solar generation to supply an EV fleet of Easter holiday or Xmas holiday travellers along the Australian eastern seaboard will be colossal. Assuming of course you have the money to pay for that infrastructure in the first place.
Exactly, these EV’s require a lot more infrastructure support than ICE vehicles and that will result in more energy and materials being used with resultant pollution. The big advantage is clean air in large cities which is a major issue but the pollution is just shifted elsewhere.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Totally agree with you. Actually, I was just thinking yesterday, what if they replaced all of our CFA trucks with EV trucks? It is summer with the potential of a major bush fire, right in the midst the EV runs out of charge, forget about thermal runaway.
Exactly, as a firefighter (vegetation) the most likely times we get called out are during storms, what happens during a storm? the power goes out, last time for two days. Some of our fires we wouldn't even get there and back on a charge let alone spend hours on the fireground. Pointed that out to one of the shiney bums and they hadn't thought of that.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
you absolutely nailed it ...the green nutters never look at realities, only theoretical wishes...and another idea for you to investigate Elecrtic car battery replacement. If our petrol / diesel car needs a part - they are manufactured and distributed and sit on the dealers shelf until required - ie a metal part is still new and useable 10 / even 20 years later ...these parts stay "new". Now - if you buy an EV today -it has a specific battery made to fit it ...they have specific size, connections, and often water cooling connections.... now 5/7 /10 years down the track, when that battery has failed ( and in use they degrade to a point they are useless) could you even buy a suitable replacement ? Given the ever evolving technology in this area, chances are that you could not get a direct replacement. Now here is the crux of this - and a serious question to ask the manufacturers and car importers ...they wty the battery - but can i get a similar replacement in 3 years ? The reason this becomes important is that if the answer was YES - then when was that battery manufactured ? If it was made 3 years ago - that battery has done what ? sat on a shelf which means it degrades so it isn't new at all ...its used up a portion of it's life as it degrades. Or - if the dealer has kept it for 1 year / 2 / 5 ...have they kept them charged ? What dealer is going to have batteries sitting being charged ( they are a major hazard / fire risk ) in their parts store ? NONE I suspect. And , if they did have one a year old battery , once again it's a used item ...it degrades from day one of manufacture
6,000kg on the Tesla Semi. If we subtract a conventional diesel engine and fuel, thats about a 4,500kg penalty on payload, or losing about 20% of the normal semi trailer payload. That battery would need to be recharged 2 or 3 times a day, shortening its lifespan a lot. Most electric cars get recharged once a week.
@@wazza33raceranother thing! The tesla semi is over 1000hp and it's doing the job of 500hp diesel semis while the 650hp diesels are moving about 4x it's load
@@carholic-sz3qv You realize that EVs are like gas engines. The max HP is basically free and you just limit it based on the ability to put it to the ground. It's not like a 500HP EV would do the job but why artificially limit the motor when the tires can easily use 1000HP? In the US EVs only get a 2 ton advantage so it's likely that they can't haul as much as a diesel tractor but it's very close. In no way is it 4x less.
I have thought of the charging chaos.2 summers ago in UK pulled on services here in UK it was a lovely day.So loads of cars had stopped for a break I said to myself if all these were EVS the queues would be enormous.Plus our National Grid could not cope.Lorries would be even worse.With charging waiting time you would have less time to deliver as there is a maximum working day by law in UK.Madness. The day would be taken up by charging So less delivering less profit.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
We worked out if they had done this at Chobham service on the M25 in the uk the charging area would have to be a Square mile just to fit the pumps in lol
They are certainly doing everything to discourage driving: Endless roadworks with street closures (with nothing actually happening), sacred cow laws for cyclists, ever reducing speed limits, speed humps everywhere, disappearance of almost all free parking, disappearance of almost all traffic cops - allowing hoons to rule the roads, supposed "tougher licensing tests" where bad drivers are passed but good drivers are failed and traffic lights timed on major roads to punish drivers who drive to speed limits. They hate us.
Meanwhile Cannon Ball Run for BEVs has settled around 44 hours for most attempts WITH charging problems. Over the freaking 2,800 miles distance 44 hours is not a safe speed and requires tandem driving and very little rest. Where else you going to drive, into the ocean?
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Another nice article. I was in Norway where they have gone electric in a big way and have seen a queue of cars waiting to get into a carpark where they all need to charge. The carpark had 50 spaces!
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
@@dmitripogosian5084 A truck driver is not making money while his/her truck is parked. It takes around ten hours to drive from Melbourne to Sydney. Stopping to charge an electric truck would almost double that. At that point, the driver would have exceeded his/her legal working hours without a sleeping period. Perhaps you're thinking of city-based delivery vans, which could top up for ten or fifteen minutes at each delivery point while the forklift driver unloads and loads.
In the UK, many EV charging points cannot sustain claimed charging output once more than one car is plugged in. Just imagine the chaos that would ensue if a bloody great big truck plugged in 😂
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Greetings from Finland. Yesterday the other Swedish truckmaker Scania announced that it will stop making e-trucks. Their losses are over 1,2 billion euros with those thingys and no-one is buying them.
The reason Scania was going down the Etruck road was because management was stacked with green left eco loons who wanted to look so progressive. The market quickly corrected their delusional ideas.
This is fake news. I didn't find such an announcement, nowhere on the internet. Scania is releasing better e-trucks every year. Besides, it has reached an agreement with ABB to build a new charging infrastructure up to 600KW.
As an electrician nearly bought an EV price jumped from £40,000 to £56,000 for longer range & performance. The other problem was battery life in years as I wanted to purchase outright. Did look at vans but the range was so poor to get to site for 8.30am I'm up at 4am to leave at 5. A one hour charge would mean leaving on Sunday. Ps insurance companies don't want you to put charge points less thab 7.5 M from commercial property. Wonder why.
Don't these chargers de-rate themselves if too many EVs are charging, thus exceeding what the infrastructure the chargers are plugged into can provide? So max charge rate if you're the only one charging, not so much if all the chargers are in use... provided they're working at all.
Just have a bank of good Diesel generators that can be turned on as there’s more demand for charging! Of course that defeats the purpose of electric vehicles…
@@markiangooley Hey it's an LGV, maybe they can tow one of those BIG diesel gen-sets behind them for this purpose!? 😉 Trains have done diesel-elec drivetrains for a long time now, maybe we're gonna see road trucks do it now too with a makeshift setup like that!? 😂
@@markiangooley Diesel generators are so inefficient they aren't practical. Go lookup what you would need to supply 1.2MW of power. That would only run 8 chargers. Battery buffers are the way to go if a site has limited input power.
Chargers have a site rating and a per stall rating. So if you have 4x 250kW stalls and 800kW of site power than yes, if you have 4 EVs pull in at exactly the same time at 10% SOC then none of them would get full power. After they all hit 30% SOC it wouldn't matter if the site power was 1000kW, they can only pull 800kW. Of course this rarely ever happens. Typical there is a mix of demand from each stall and the site power is more than enough so every EV can pull their max.
And one other thing, when the EV trucks are waiting to use the chargers and they run out of charge, who and how are these moved?? They would then block the roads and chargers. It is madness, personified.
The fuelling time difference between diesel end electric is really much larger. The range of a diesel truck is at least 4, (and may be as much as 6 or 7) times as large as the range of an electric truck . Therefore the fuelling time difference is more like a 5 min fill for diesel truck vs 10 to 15+ hours of charging time an electric truck to make it travel the same distance as a single diesel fill up.
Also as the electric truck has a lower payload capacity compared to a diesel truck due to the weight of the battery) so the operator loses money due to the lower payload capacity. In addition the operator looses money while operating an electric truck due to the decreased truck utilization and increased labour costs incurred as a result or the log periods the truck is off the road during charging.
Also the claimed charging times for those things are waaaay off. Several hours at least if there is only one of them charging at a station. If there are more then you're looking at possibly a whole day.
To increase the range on a diesel truck you add a fuel tank, which has very little weight until it is required and then filled, the range extender battery has the same weight regardless of whether or not it is required on that trip, weight that not only cuts payload but also range. The real question that no one seems to have addressed is how desirable will it be to subsequent owners, as you have to sell it on to afford the next new one or the next new one to you, and as a truck may have several owners over a long lifespan, each owner getting a bit more value from it, the second hand economics which allows the new to be purchased will be interesting.
You've obviously never filled a diesel semi. First you wait in line. When it is time to pump, it takes 20 minutes, not 5 on average. You're not adding 20 gallons but 150-300 gallons. Even with high speed pumps it takes time. This all counts toward your break time but you're not really free to do what you want. With an EV truck you spend 15 seconds plugging it in and then you're on full break time.
Simply put, if the same load was carried on a long range diesel truck that was being timed at start with a full tank, then the journey could be made without a refill, just mandatory rest stops. It could be in Canberra, offloaded, refueled, reloaded & ready to return before the eTruck had made any significant distance from the departure point. The suggested dedicated "quick battery swap" stations are a long way off & does anyone want to be swapping their near new, low mileage battery for someone else's older, much used/abused battery on their way to Outer Oodnagalarby in the Never Never. Australia is a BIG place & there are many places still waiting for landline/optic fiber phone & internet. Large capacity electricity lines to these areas for EV charging is still a long way off.
I live in Scotland, near Pitlochry, not exactly the arse-end of nowhere. We still don't have fibre internet and BT tell me there are no plans to fit it. On a good day I get 3-4 mb. Brave new electronic world? I don't think so.
I work in the design dept for an electrical distribution department, we are now getting hundreds of commercial customers now asking for extra power for all of their new EV fleet of vehicles. And in almost all cases the extra power required is more than the existing factory or plant is using. [I’ll repeat that] *the power required for their new EV vehicles or more than the entire factory is currently using* As a result we’re are going to have to charge them to upgrade the existing network in the area otherwise that part of town will become overloaded and unable to cope with the demand. There is one elite car company in my area that have a logistics storehouse/warehouse where all of the car parts get delivered to from all over the world and are stored, they then they use their own arctic lorries to transport the car parts 7 miles to the factory if and when they need them. They are now going to change all of their arctic delivery lorries to EV vehicles so we need to upgrade the entire network in that part of the city to be able to cope with their power demand in their lorry park where they are going to charge them up. This will cost approx 1 quarter of a million [pounds sterling] and that is for the electrical distribution network upgrade alone. The result of this is that these electric delivery lorries will only ever travel a total of 14miles from the warehouse to the factory and back. But you will see this company boasting that their entire fleet of delivery lorries are going to be all electric. their car parts coming from all over the world are delivered by other companies so that won’t get publicised.
Every time an electric vehicle is advertised, I always ask how many kilowatts it will take to charge the battery! They never mentioned this because they knew everyone will be shocked! 😂😂😂
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
I've considered this too, and it is total insanity. A truck requiring a 0.5MW battery (maybe 2T in weight), and if it was fully loaded would have a range of about 100-150 miles before having to stop for HOURS to re-charge. Let's see them take trips through the Aussie outback in one of those! Drivers sitting round doing nothing, companies losing money hand over fist while trucks sit idle.
Batteries weight around 10lbs per kW so more 2300kG or 2.3 metric tons. In AU they give EVs extra weight per axle to make this a non-issue. Charging from 10% to 80% should be more like 1.5 hours. You don't charge EVs from 0% to 100%. For obvious reasons you don't want to arrive at 0%. Above 80% the rate really slows down so you stop there. For sure they need the 750kW chargers the US has in AU to support EV trucks.
Drivers wont be payed during charge times, also 2nd driver will no longer be needed for non stop runs in large countries. Ask Ford how its F150 electric truck turned out, who would of thought it gets cold in the winter and electric heat sucks juice. Politicians make decisions based on how much cash ends up in their pockets.
Would be interesting to watch outback truckers if they were all EV, more about chatting around the charger with their double soy lattes than actual trucking. First one to cross a swollen creek bursts into flame due to battery getting wet.
It's anyway very optimistic to think that you will get the same charging time after installing 240 charging points... The kWh will go down massively, meaning you won't get a 240 car throughput in an hour, but it'll take much longer. So a throughput of 240 cars per hour is simply impossible.
Increasing the number of EV's charging will reduce the speed any one EV can charge at. Charging times will not only depend on charging points but also the available kW at the facility which will have to be shared with all the available charging points
This is what none of the "electric utopia" sheeple comprehend. The more bleating halfwits follow them into the electric sheep pen, the longer they're all going to have to sit at charging stations, bleating their idiot lives away.
Sites with limited available KW will use battery buffers to make up the difference. It's not like this hasn't already been solved at many sites around the world already.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Within the past couple of days or so they had an incident in San Francisco where an electric bus lost power as it was going up an especially steep street. For some reason that was not explained it was not able to stop itself in place and rolled back down the street. Something like 9 cars were severely damaged if not totaled as a result and one person was injured badly enough to require hospitalization before the bus finally came to a rest. I found this to be somewhat shocking as I would have thought such a vehicle would have had standard hydraulic brakes and still be able to stop itself regardless of how much power it had. Well, either it didn't have such brakes or those brakes failed. However, if this is the sort of thing one can potentially expect from electric vehicles then add it to the list of why they are an incredibly bad idea. Especially in San Francisco and other areas where they have a lot of steep hills.
Interesting report and good points made, especially with throughput for refuelling / charging. The journey was 745 miles. Lands end to John O Groats here in the UK is 837 miles and can be done in just under 15 hours.
Yep. And that's using ALL sorts of regular tiny roads with wacky steep gradients when you get closer to the extremities of the North/South of UK! I bet this big Volvo had a nice wide mostly-flat road to drive on whilst it "took a few days" to make the journey!
In a diesel truck. An eleccy truck will spend that time stopped charging. And Europe only has big utes not real trucks. Single drive towing a trailer just like an American camper!!
@@ZIGZAG12345The road is mostly divided freeway but there are some hills. Canberra is at an altitude of 600 m (2,000 ft) and there are some parts of the freeway that exceed 800 m. Brisbane is at sea level.
If you had an electric fire engine, what do they propose to use to power the pumps for the water needed to put a fire out because a battery wouldn't last very long ?
Well...🤔what happens is...they're gonna put a diesel generator set on each truck to pump the water!!..🙄and also it can be used to charge the battery at the same time!💥voila!!👌👊🙌
Trucking depends massively on the vehicle actually moving and delivering things for it to make money. If it’s sat at a charger for hours on end doing nothing that’s money wasted. The trucking company would go out of business in a matter of weeks if trucks had to be electric. This truck can only do about 190 miles on a charge (300km) so assuming you charge 10-80% every time from a 200kw charger, you’re going to have to stop and recharge every 130 miles for 2 hours. And that’s assuming you don’t drive up any hills and that you can find a 200kw charger when you need one and that there’s a space available.
Except of course it will simply mean that the price of everything will skyrocket and the cost of the EV truck insanity will be carried by the ultimate consumers i.e. us.
Get into semi recovery. I keep seeing tesla semis being towed back to charge points around here constantly because they run out of juice just doing the Pepsi routes around the flat local area.
I saw tons of electric delivery vans a couple years ago, i thought back then it was a terrible idea. And now i dont see any electric vans driving, all replaced by Diesels. I wonder what will happen to all those ev's lol. The same will happen with these trucks. Hell these plans wont even get of the ground i bet.
In the UK many councils are trialling electric refuse collection lorries. This is despite them costing much more than the ICE equivalents that they already have and despite the fact that most councils are facing considerable budget problems. And worse, this is despite the evidence of regular problems experienced by those councils that have completed trials and have now rolled out the fleet - news from residents in these councils are of failed refuse collections because the lorries are breaking down more often, running out of charge during their working routes or are simply not charged at the start of the shift.
I've mentioned this before elsewhere. A relative of mine, in England, has a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Even with petrol at GBP1.60/litre, around A$3.00, he finds it cheaper to run the thing on petrol rather than electricity!
I stand on a motorway bridge for just a few minutes and count 25 HGVs, just imagine the chaos at charging stations snd the price of haulage costs unimaginable...
Side consideration made by an italian. In italiy there are 40 million cars in circulation, while the number of fuel stations is equal to 22,654 (approximately 1,755 cars for each refueling station). We therefore estimate a total of 92,000 petrol pumps present in the country (4 pumps on average per station) Amount of charging stations estimated as necessary if the car fleet should be totally electric = 92000*2*4 = 736000 (range of ICE is 2 time the range of BEV and the filling time of BEV is 4 time is slower than ICE) Electric charging stations currently (October 2023) available in Italy = 47,228 (6% of the total required at the time of full replacement of ICE ith BEV)
I did a calculation a couple of years ago and iirc, we would require around 75% of area of Tasmania to be dedicated to solar to power our great nation......and then you can probably add another 50% or so for batteries of some description. In Britain they'd need to lose Wales and Greater Birmingham. I can't see how wind/solar are the answer even we ignore the ecological disaster arising from the dedication of land area.
great video. imagine if EV had come first with their 150 mile range and one hour charge time, a new car is invented running on this new fuel, diesel. fill up in 5 minutes with a 700 miile range, that cost less than half the cost of an EV, cheaper to insure and repair, and doesn't self combust. how many EVs would sell then
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Scania is having problems now because they have invested so much money in electric trucks but can't sell them, so they are seeking help from the Swedish government.
Help from the Swedish Government!!!! I suppose you mean from the Swedish taxpayers. So you and me may solve the problem for a commercial company and I tell you when they cannot solve and pay it themselves they have no right to exist!
Add to that Volkswagen 192 billion loss, Ford just declared they are going back to ICE cars after huge losses, it looks like Toyota was right all along. They have a plan for a hydrogen powered car ….that would be clean ….emitting only water….but it would work like a normal car IE the government couldn’t switch it off and limit your travel or price you out of the market, so guess what? They don’t want that. Which just shows this climate nonsense is just that….nonsense! They only want to use it to control us.
Let me tell you a short, back of the envelope result that me and a coworker got in our coffee break: Germany needs 150 nuclear plants or, in another unit.. lets say a France worth of nuclear generating capability, 3xFranceNuclear to be able to charge all currently personal cars (excluding trucks) if they were instantly switched to BEVs!
I call BS. In the US, capacity would only need to increase by 30%. That doesn’t take into account load balancing by time of day or all the solar roofs getting installed. As always, Norway is the proof that the infrastructure can support EV mass adoption.
In Australia, in November, in the spring/summer. I'm here stuck in a snow storm in Montana USA. there's no way I'm replacing my rig with an EV, I would literally die. To even consider charging them is insane. It would take more than 24 hours to fill up. I would not make money during the winter or summer.
To put it in perspective for USA folks whose home power systems are 240 volts, single phase: a 250 kWh charger requires , at 240 volts single phase, 1041 amps! Of course in the USA these chargers will be fed by three phase systems at maybe 480 volts requiring only 300 amps! In the USA, residential homes are supplied by a 25 kva (kW for resistive loads) transformer serving 5 homes which will not supply enough energy for EV charging.
if they wanna electrify cargo, just electrify cargo rail and passenger rail while you are at it. and then have last mile trucks going out to their destination from the railway yard.
Australia would be a good place to do this as you have large populations linked by large open spaces, making it ideal for a rail/depot setup, all you would need is the massive investment in the infrastructure.
Oddly enough, that's what the UK had until Dr Beeching did his bit and destroyed the railway system in the 60s. UK Govt only now realise what we were gifted by the Victorians and wantonly threw away because some clown with a vested interest (Ernest Marples anyone?) said road transport was always going to be cheaper and quicker.
Yep...... I'm with you 100%. There seem to be two very clearly defined types of people on this planet. Those who function on emotion and who hold 'airy fairy' beliefs which are so easily sold to them....... And thinking, pragmatic, common sense people who are pretty rational for the most. Who are quite reasonable in their beliefs and expectations. Who are always open to what is best and to what can bring about better outcomes but who don't go running with the herd every time it changes direction or picks up on some new agenda or gimmick. Guaranteed....... If you asked 100 people of the first group, just exactly where does the current come from to charge up these vehicles in their fancy new 'charging stations', I honestly do not think 80 of those people could tell you. And so many more would be stunned to know that it was either gas or coal which was needed to charge those silly and very dangerous batteries. There are photos online of small EV's towing around large diesel gen sets. What a joke.
For most daily driving, the goal should be to set things up so the vast majority of people can charge either at home or at work using a 3-7kW L2 grid connection or possibly inductive charging built into curb-side parking spaces, not at DC fast-chargers. As for how long people actually stay at fast-chargers, expect that to get down to about 15min typical as cars and chargers with 250+kW of throughput on 800V architectures become more common. When you charge an EV and want to optimize your stops for fastest overall speed and lowest overall cost, you usually cannot go much beyond 65% before charging speed slows down, especially at by-the-hour chargers which are common in NA. You get to the charger, put about 50kWh in to get the battery back from 10% to 65-70%, then proceed to your destination or next charger. At 250kW, that should take about 12min excluding setup time.
Sometimes they use gas turbines as well to generate the electricity. The reason they do it this way is to simplfy the system. Running electrical cables to the electric motors eliminates mechanical complexity. It's also more versatile. It's like diesel/electric locomotives in this regard.
Same with those really big mining trucks, diesel generators with electric final drives, you get all of the torque immediately and there's no giant gearbox, diffs or driveshafts needed.
Great vid, Thanks. A point on the drivers, these days most long haul drivers are paid by the kilometer, not the hour. I drove, mostly long haul for 30+ years and the thought of standing around with my finger up my bum and not getting paid while my eco friendly "Electric- shitheap" charges for an hour or more would really grind my gears. So, getting old mate out of a EV truck back into a diesel, just to make some real money is a no-brainer. Can you imagine the mess after the Electric -shitheap hits one of those legendary Hume Highway pot holes and then goes into thermal runaway, Yep! you'll get knocked over in the rush as all the pollies leave town for extended holidays in a location with no mobile service.......just add, log books, freight delivery contracts, load weights, re-establishing highway service centres to suit EV-shitheaps.
If they're doing it in scheduled rest periods it also won't work as planned. You can't just plug it in and go to sleep for 8 hours as if it charges in say 4 hours you're going to be blocking a charge point if you stay there. So are drivers going to have to plug it in, go to sleep for a few hours, and then get out and move the truck? From my time in logistics it's actually illegal to move the truck if the driver is out of hours and supposed to be on a rest break afaik. Maybe a current truck driver may be able to confirm this is correct.
@@Peter-df8nc There you go. That's sort of what I thought but I wasn't completely sure and there's enough bs in the EV space without me adding to it. I know we used to get drivers to sign a form to say that they were within their allotted hours before we could load them as having a truck stuck in a bay or on site would have been ugly.
@@nicklovell8148Cheers. So in other words that will mean that charging time will actually cut into driving time and not rest times as they tried to say.
Well Simon again you have hit the nail on the head - this sheer insanity and I for one am quite amazed at anyone thinking that these trucks are good idea are living in la-la land and should be put away from the rest of us in some secure institution. Another point is how on this planet could they have EV fire trucks given that they such short ranges and operate in some really extreme circumstances and terrain it is simply a ridiculous notion ?
Conveniently they provided combined weight. I want to see a separate details of the battery and weight of the commercial cargo delivered. I am pretty sure I will lough my ass off...
We have vlovo electric trick at work, in uk, now the old saying if an HGV not moving its not earning, not only does it cost 50% more to buy but the driver can only do if I'm correct 200miles, and that's if its not pulling a full load, then the charging areas on the services ? What do they expect us to do,drop high value load in the truck bays,drive off to car chargers and sit their for 1.30hrs? Because any more time and we will be charged £30 for overstaying over 2hrs, then when the drive gets back to base he's sat there for 12hrs for complete charge,so in essence takes longer to get anywhere by upto half a day because we are capt at 13hr day and 9hr drive and some of this is now lost due to charging at 1.30hrs at a go,it cost double compared to diesel for given distance, truck cost more to buy,and the driver cannot do the working hours or delivery compared to the diesel? So all this cost will have to be passed on to the public with higher prices for goods,and you'll also need to factor you'll need more trucks=more drivers=more cost,just to achieve what the dirty diesel can achieve....this is NOT THE FUTURE, onwards my friends
Can't imagine an EV truck pulling 40 tonne up a big hill in 30 degrees celcius. The lack of low gearing might start a fire as the electric motors start getting hot. Going downhill without a Jacobs engine brake will be interesting too.
Retired trucker here. Electric can have some uses, they could be used for city work, going out bringing freight to terminals or local delivery. They could be used by companies like FedEx or UPS to haul light freight terminal to terminal (have to plug in and recharge before return) Wouldn't be able to do long haul or heavy tho. Better option would be go down the rout Edison Motors is doing, go hybrid. Batteries can be charged at terminal/yard, go to work, when the charge drops, a little 9L diesel under the hood fires up and charges the batteries, shuts off when 80% or so, the lil engine would only run in the sweet spot, no revving up and down, so it operation at peak efficiency. Still think the ICE is the best bet, but not going to turn away from a better way to do something if it appears. Biggest issue is lithium ion batteries like to burn, new batteries coming too market right now, dont seem to have that problem. Be interesting to watch
Such truth that you have spoken. I guess some evil minds are at work trying to mess up our lives just for the heck of it. Maybe they know what they are doing and are grinning.
EVs without infrastructure are junk. Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up. Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety. Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
It is already chaos in Britain and parts of Europe where lines form for limited chargers that is made even worse by the fact that they breakdown very often. There is also the situation where the chargers power output is reduced when power in the grid is low. Trips in Britain are also very expensive when driving a BEV.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 The only reason EV's are enjoyable is because they are bludging off all the ICE vehicles that are paying for the roads. Nothing worse than a smug bludger.
Not sure how that's irony.....if the truck was delivering fossil fuel combustion cars, wouldn't that be more ironic? Just asking as I'm not sure of irony definition and was puzzled by Alanis Morrisette 🤔
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Glad it worked for you. Happy that you are happy, but EVs are just not as good as an ICE vehicle or we would all be buying them. When an EV can perform the same duties as an ICE vehilcle, nobody will need convincing or subsidies to buy them. When they are better, there will be no question. Unil then, they are fun toys but inferior in every real way.
As an HGV driver myself, I've spoken to Volvo mechanics about the Volvo FH electric and apparently the batteries are £65k each , of which there are 6 anbecause of that cost the truck is pretty much scrap at the end of a 5yr lease. In that article it says that it was charged during the drivers regulatory break... in the U.K a HGV drivers break has to be time which he is free to do with the time as he sees fit but under no circumstances does that include work and refueling is considered work so in the U.K the charging would have to be separate. Plus I want my break when and where I want it , not when a machine tells me I have to take it cause its ran out of juice. Finally.. the range of my diesel Volvo is approximately 1200miles between refueling.
My biggest concern regarding the truck drivers is their welfare. Imagine the weight gain consuming pies and Coca Cola whilst waiting for the batteries to charge.
Now why would you want to swap out your brand new battery and get a battery that might be 5 years old. That would also end any warranty on your battery pack if it is not the original pack sold with the car.
@@Arafury57 Doesn't matter because the vehicle manufacture is only responsible for the battery that came with the vehicle. You are talking about batteries that cost anywhere from $15,000 dollars all the way up to $30,000 dollars, the vehicle manufactures are not going to be willing to warranty you 6 month old vehicle when they discover there is a 6 year old battery in it that went bad.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869please look at this company before commenting. They give the warranty on the battery they change. The battery is not the one that comes with the truck, it is their own battery so the warranty is not a problem. Before commenting do some research.
@@dikkybee4003 I could care less if the company wants to give there own warranty, the manufacture of the vehicle no longer has to be responsible and now you are in a fight with the battery changing company saying its not them and the manufacture saying its not our battery go talk to the battery changing company.
Another way to look at it is to compare it to water. I lived in a community in New Jersey that had been in a draught for several years. We got just as much rain as when I moved to the state, so I asked about it. The explanation wasn't that water was less abundant but the population had grown several times creating a much larger demand. Hence, not enough water to go around. EV's are like people in that they need resources (electricity) that we all take for granted, the way humans take water supply for granted. But, as the demand grows the amount of power drawn will exceed the amount of power created, just like too many people moving into a community will draw too much water. Although ar least with water you can drill more wells pump more when demand is low and store the excess in tanks until needed. Electricity on the other hand has to be generated when drawn on. We are not building more "pumping stations" for electricity. We will end up with a man made electricity draught.
the only way that could be kind of viable is gantry sections with a pantograph on the trucks.. but why would you?.. just put them on a train... if carbon is their argument then why do they not put the total carbon into the equation?... smoke & mirrors
@@ghunt9146totally agree and way better than trams, being cheaper and quicker to expand the network , its what they should have had in Edinburgh, they could have put the full system in and then expanded it easily and cheaply over the years to cover the whole city and even the surrounding areas.
Another thing they probably didn't think of is that the hauling capacity of these EV trucks will be less than with diesel. My company which happens to be one of the largest waste management companies in the US converted its entire fleet over to natural gas and one of the first things we noticed is that they were slightly smaller which translates into more trips to the transfer station or landfill per route which cut down on the amount of work that could be done in the span of a normal day. Project that over the span of a year and you have more hours wasted driving to and from a transfer station or landfill then actually collecting trash. The max DOT hours a driver can work in a week is 60 hours.
Another thing is that many areas cannot support multiple 250kw chargers. The grid feeding the area cannot handle the load. Even with multiple "fast chargers" for consumer vehicles if every charge bay is in use the charge rate drops to a fraction of full power to keep the load on the grid within safe limits. Just think of the atomic bomb type effect if that huge truck battery shorts out!
EVs will be great for outpricing vehicles for the common person so that only the elite can use them & the servants doing work for them, then they can ditch EVs once they have completed the desired task.
@@brendykes1202 Yes but who buys them? Companies who receive subsidies, leased for 3 years or car hire companies? OK if you can charge it a work or home but otherwise they're a nightmare if they require charging on a long trip - Range Anxiety!!. Any private person who buys one who isn't going to use it for just popping to the local stores is going to have a nasty shock when they try to sell it or it requires repairs etc. They are NOT the future and they will end up as a white elephant around someone's neck. That's why they are cheap. Ford and GM are pulling back too.
I think what is missing is, the electric daisy chain figure here verses what the electric motor needs. The motor is gonna draw some power from that batt because the car has to move. To make this car move faster, uses more power. This by itself is RC toy\electric train toy\electric race track toy basics. Your not getting out of it no matter the software updated. So the batt has to have the ability to feed this motor to keep up with the performance of a gas/diesel powered car. The more items used, the more power draw you get. So the battery is not gonna be a easy thing to charge, it's not a phone batt or flash light batt. It is a huge power pack that can be over 200amps. And as you daisy chain chargers, you gonna get a drop for each in use. And the more you use, the more the drop until it reaches it's holding base line, the longer it takes to charge. It's more than just watts and volts are being delt with, also amps because you have to push it back in the batt. The batt is not a magnet, not gonna just attract the charge. And this is even more vital for delivery lines because the amps have to push to destination. Majority of these are set for their grids to feed buildings of all kinds including plants. Common house hold is 220watts, house hold things will always use low watts/volts/amps. EVs on the other hand, is a mobile power station as is, with a battery pack you can arch weld with. So the demand will always be higher, and there for you need a increase of delivery in order to add another station to the chain. So maybe the station can do it, but based on the location, existing power delivery to the location, may not be suffect enough to fallow through. This can explain why some areas are the worst to go to, and others not so much. Not so carbon friendly or cost efficient at all in that sense...
My school district is looking to go to electric busses. We’re principally diesel though we’re phasing out diesels in favor of gasoline in our new purchases. We did a grid check and we have enough available power to charge with a limited peak time principally off peak charging time. That’s dandy except we don’t employ second or third shifts in maintenance in order to swop busses during off peak charging. We’d also only be able to have 4 charge stations; we have nearly 100 busses. While electric wouldn’t be 100% of our fleet it seems more of a pain at even 20% than straight diesel. Our new gas busses can only run in city routes as they are seriously underpowered compared to diesel on rural routes. We’re in upstate NY were thus is much more of a political decision than a logical one; we’re also reimbursed by the state for 90% of the cost meaning it’s only actually 10% on us and of that 10% another near 8% is getting picked up by federal grants. This 2% our cost is the biggest problem to this misspending as there really are no down sides for the district except wasted money for all and little to no good gains as the max range is barely enough to run both AM and PM city routes with new batteries and we’re limited in charging during peak demand times meaning we’re actually going to need more electric busses and actually going to have to hire staff just to swop busses in chargers at night.
Wow that flame out was massively intense. Here in Auckland, New Zealand the City Council has recently out a fleet of EV public transport into action at phenomenal cost. They are the same models showing up on YT exploding into gigantic firestorms & truly wrecking the roadway below. It would say it’s only a matter of time until one of these over-heavy due to the batteries ( compared ordinary ICE buses just pulled out of service) start going up it sheets of flames…
The other thing that people don't seem to understand is when there are multiple vehicles charging at one charging station, the overall voltage drops per charger. If there is one car charging, that's fine, but as more and more cars are charging at the same time, the time to charge each vehicle increases exponentially.
In the US drivers are limited as to the amount of time they can be behind the wheel; in the trip you referred to, adding 7.5 hours, would be adding another shift to the driver's trip time and that would not be allowed.
The delivery in the is 1200 klms- about 700 miles, Usually takes about 14 hours or so, So another 7 hours for recharging. Since time is money in this industry, who pays the extra 50% timeframe
I have been a class a CDL semi truck driver for 26 years. I know for a fact that An 80,000 pound semi truck will require 54,000 pounds of batteries to move that weight down the road. This would immediately make that semi truck Too heavy for even five axles which is the norm in the industry. With five axles and a seventy five foot bridge length, You are allowed 80,000 pounds. 6 axles, 86,000 lbs. 7 axles, 97,000 lbs. 8 axles 105,500 lbs. All of these weights are based on up to 75 feet of length, which is referred to as "bridge length". This, because of weight limits on bridge decks. Then there is the travel distance issue. You can only make roughly 300 miles on one single charge. Then you must park the truck for 24 hrs to recharge. In my business of intermodal trucking, we park the truck at around 4 pm or 5 pm, then restart within 12 hrs to start another day. I work in Seattle. There are thousands of owner operators who park on city streets because you can not park a semi in a urban neighborhood. There is no way of charging unless you deploy a gas operated generator. Even the port of seattle does not deploy any EV trucks or heavy equipment to move containers. It's a all DEF engines right now. They are a maintenance nightmare. The emission system destroys diesel engines. Engines that used to be able to go one million miles are now requiring inframe rebuilds at 100,000 miles. The truck that I drive. Now needs a filter replacement after just three months. Those filters are $3500 each. When the DEF emission system wants to do a regeneration, it will use the Turbo to heat the filter up to 1100°F. After it is done with the regeneration, it will blow all of that soot into the air. That means that all of the soot that it was supposed to filter gets blown into the air anyway. If you want to replace the DEF emission system, the cost is $18000. Eventually the filter system where's the engine out come completely. The cost of a new Cummins diesel engine is roughly $40000. The cost of a new semi truck complete with a DEF 2007 California emission standard engine is about $250,000 USD. This is driving up the cost of sdipping massively. You eventually paid for it when you walk into a retail establishment. Most of the owner-operator truck drivers that I know on the Seattle. Intermodal waterfront industry have deleted that emission system so that they are not crippled with massive maintenance costs. The EPA claims that they inspect these trucks. In all my years of trucking, I have never seen the EPA on the Seattle. Or tacoma waterfront. This is all yet another scam perpetrated by government. The cost is passed on to all of us who pay taxes.
The vastly increased size of recharging stations compared to fuel stations is only part of the problem. In the UK fuel stations have a fairly small acreage and can be found in numerous roadside locations. Sites ten times bigger will be harder to find ( or we have 10x the number!). On top of this is the cost of additional cabling, transformers, power lines and generating capacity. Currently this is all paid for out of general taxation and represents a subsidy to EV users (paid for by many people who cannot afford an EV). If the true cost of this extra infrastructure is paid for by the end user, I don't think EV's will be any cheaper to run than IC engines. Also the fuel station network in the UK is a commercial business. They make their profit from fuel sales and other goods. A significant proportion of the fuel cost is tax and duties that go to the Government coffers. EV charging stations do not produce the same revenue (which is substantial). Once the true economic costs of EV's is calculated, I don't think they will be found to be viable.
I recently stopped at a Pilot Travel Center, the largest chain of truck stops in North America. They had recently converted four parking spaces to EV charging stations on the passenger car side. So much for ‘convenience ‘. I asked the manager if they had converted any spaces on the truck side. He said no and that he wasn’t aware of any plans to do so. I have seen videos of cars lining up to access chargers and I chuckle. It won’t ever work for passenger cars and they aren’t even trying for the trucks. But let the charade continue.
That is why Janus Electric's model of swappable battery packs is such a good idea for the trucking industry. Batteries can be swapped out in 4 minutes, and the truckie is back on the road, which is quicker than filling up with diesel, which usually takes around 20 minutes. Batteries can be recharging at swapping stations from excess renewable solar during the day, meaning cost of power is significantly reduced. The only issue, again, as with all of these things, is actually getting the infrastructure up and running.
In order to replace diesel trucks in the U.S. We would need to increase electricity production by roughly 50%. That represents perfect operation environments for the electric semis, no freezing temperatures, no hills and definitely no mountains. To operate coast to coast year round the Electricity required would be twice what is currently used in the country. (This is based off Average Semi miles per year, and the projected milage per Kwh for the tesla SEMI.) When you consider the cost of infrastructure for new charging stations, power lines, new service stations (because the diesel model stations WILL NOT WORK for truck charging), all the electric relay stations, and required upgrades to the existing grid, you find that the minimum cost will be over 70 trillion dollars U.S. which includes the cost of new COAL power plants which are the cheapest. I did a report on this about a year ago for a college econ class. I spent about a month running numbers, and speaking with people in the various markets involved. My conclusion was that it would take roughly 35-40 years to fully convert, if we put everything into it, and did it properly. Rural mountainous regoins would be one of the largest money sinks the world has ever seen. I don't have a great understanding of Australias topography, and road systems, but I would say that the costs would be similar in type, if not amount. Oh the professor in question was pissed. He's a lefty nut job, who wanted a paper on why we need to switch to all electric asap. Every one else in the class turned in a paper about how we need to save the environment boohoo. My paper was focused on how it could be done, and the time, and expenses required to do it. My paper was the only one that got a failing grade.
Indeed a motorway service stop with 250 parking spaces and each of them has to be a supercharger point. Just imagine people pulling up for lunch and drawing 250 x 350kw ~ 90MW and the local aluminium smelting works or glass factor or chemical works or hospital is blacked out. Yes Power Generating plants have much greater capacity but it is being used already by shops, factories and homes. UK Pembroke = Gas Powered (the biggest in UK) 2,200MW and Drax was about 4,200MW, but there are hundreds of motorway service stations and 8,365 filling stations across the UK - that's stations not fuel pumps!
Something else to consider. Here in the U.S., the Tesla Semi consumes 1.7 kilowatts per mile. That mean every 1000 miles it consumes close the same amount of energy to power an average sized single family home for a month. Also, PepsiCo found it can only do 100 miles under heavy load. Even biased Wikipedia has those numbers.
Will an electric fire engine be able to put it's self out?
Lol.
That goes around in ever decreasing circles and disappears up its own rectum when you think about it doesn't it?
Ha ha ha, that's exactly what i was thinking!
😂😂😂
water is a great conductor of electricity.
Humans can engineer anything. Lots of naysayers throughout history with most technological developments (eg Horse to Cars, Analogue to Digital anything, internet etc).
I'm pretty sure there will be self-contained battery compartments with inlet valve that can be liquid filled to suppress thermal runaway. Solutions are easy and if benefit is worth the cost, innovation will continue
A company in Queensland Australia enquired about buying 20 electric trucks. He went to the electricity company with the power requirements. They came back and said that's more power than is used in his entire region and it was not possible to supply that power
TODAY. Need to start somewhere, and the grids are planned 10-15+ years out. It takes time to build out infrastructure.
@ChrisGWarp so he will need to wait 10 years before buying those 20 EV trucks.
@@ChrisGWarp There is still the poor range and the amount of time waiting for the truck to charge up.
@@musicbruv 500 miles / 800 kms is not enough? Sure long haul driver changing use cases will be a problem, but Intra city usage is where it excels. Look at how the Tesla Semi with PepsiCo in CA is being used. Charge whilst being loaded.
The idiot on this channel mostly reasons by analogy (a dangerous thing to do as most analogies break down all too easily, if you actually stop and think about it) and, and this is his biggest mistake, that it’s going to be an instantaneous change. It isn’t and it’s won’t be. It will change over time, infrastructure will be built out and the economics will dictate what goes. You’re already seeing this with the early close of coal power stations, they can not compete. Tesla has built out 50,000 global superchargers. That has taken time and has scaled with the number of their cars on the road. I rarely use them myself. Trip being the exception. I used a standard 10A charger on mine for the first 6 or so months. Then I put in a level 2 home charger. How long does it take me to charge? About 30 seconds. 15 to plug in, 15 to unplug. I’ve not noticed it on my power bill. $8-$12 ish to charge. No stress.
By the same token, any electrically intensive industry or business would have been given the same answer.
The charging station is dependent on power produced by fossil fuels. That calls into question the so called carbon savings of the trip.
Do you think 100% of the power on the electricity grid is produced by fossil fuels? Or is it 50%, 25%, or 10%?....Whatever it is in the country you live it gets less and less each year as renewables replace coal and gas. Coal and gas use in France and the UK are now under 10% of electric production....most of it is nuclear, wind, hydro and solar. 10 years ago coal produced 40% of electricity in the USA, now it is under 20%...try to back up your arguments with some data, don't just make throwaway statements that are easily proved to be false.
Even if C02 was a problem.
And you ignore the gross inefficiency of ICE motors. They make heat, motive power is a byproduct.
@@bongobrandy629735% vs 90%
I see several comments have been deleted already.
In the UK there is a max weight of trucks on the road. So if you have to load up the truck with a couple of tons of batteries, that reduces the payload thus requiring more journeys to deliver the same amount of goods.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
How much of batteries charge is needed to just move itself around?
You realise that electric Volvo was showing a range of around 100 miles per charge and it would have only been partly loaded with that fire tender on board. Now imagine what the range would be like if you hooked it up to a full 200 ton road train set up and the range of the truck before it needs a charge would be comically short - perhaps 40 miles. You could measure a single journey from NSW to Alice Springs using pages of a calendar.
And the wait times to charge in calendar terms ….
@iscadeanbullshit!!! This Volvo has about half the battery size of that tesla and also probably the same amount of torque if not more. The 500 miles rating is including a very specific route which in Australia is mostly flat meaning not alot of regenerative braking....
@@carholic-sz3qvregenitive bracking puts back minimal charge . Like seriously minute amounts if power .
That will never happen. BUT a B double could, stop ebery town to charge,, IF electricity is available
As for an electric fire truck,, maybe ok in the metro area. Maybe a bushfire can check its suitability
@iscadean 500 mile range my arse, besides a diesel truck can travel between 1,300 miles to 1,600 miles on full fuel tanks. Load up the Tesla and start going up grades it will quickly use up its battery. Don't try and say regeneration going down hill will get all that lost power back, there are grades in America the Tesla likely would never even make it to the top of the mountain if it was fully loaded.
My old college motto was "Time tries the truth in everything". Well, it has taken some time, but we are now beginning to wake up to this EV madness.
Yes MGUY is the liar. 300km 186 miles from 540kwh Battery, that's NOT POSSIBLE. That's an insane improbable 2.9 kWh per mile = 0.345 Mi/kWh.
Worst case scenario that should just require 400kwh of battery capacity. That's eating up 2.2kWh per mile = 0.45 mi/kWh.
His numbers are a LIE, MGUY is the one than bend the truth.
EV sales are way up around the globe. You're the one who needs to wake up.
Yes, a good motto, and apt here. Come back in 2030. EVs will be the default option, chargers will be ubiquitous, and battery charging will be about 5 minutes, and all the fear uncertainty and doubt will evaporate as if it never existed.
@@dansanger5340 EV sales in Australia have peaked at 8% and have flatlined, and actually fell slightly over the last 3 months. Time for you to wake up Champ.
@@yggdrasil9039 And pigs will fly!
We're all in this together. Just 2 weeks to curve the insanity.
Desperation and insanity go together.
It's a scary future. God help us.
2 weeks to flatten the curve was when I knew not to ever listen or do anything the government told me. Thank God I didn't listen, or my family.
@@sambobrooklyn316 One of the few who get it. The masses didn't figure out the scam, even after 2 weeks turned into two freaking years.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
I think it was " Geoff buys cars" who did an explanation of charging ice vehicles vs ev. The takeaway was that each ice pump had a separate line to the fuel tank of servo and all pumps could fill at full speed, but ev chargers share the total power available, so cars and trucks will not just use 1 hour each if the total of ev chargers used share a lower total capacity of each charger unit than the supply put in by the providers ie energex etc. I may not be explaining this clearly but it is easy to grasp once explained. Worth checking out better explanation than mine.
The MacMaster drove into the only remaining free EV charging bay (of which there were four bays in total). So you had four EVs charging simultaneously however there was a degradation in the grid which meant they had to decide which two drivers would remove themselves from charging to allow the other two to charge within a reasonable time. You just can't make this stuff up.
Clear as day...
I love when people uses Geoff absurd lies as a source. Even Electrify America who has beef with Tesla uses Tesla MegaPacks in some of it's sites. On Site lower energy density STATIONARY BATTERY is exactly the energy buffer that acts like fuel tank. This is already implemented in many locations and negates your hypothetical. This kind of misinformation is what happens when you have no clue what you are talking about. Using falsehood RUMORs as your source.
Very well explained.
In that video, Geoff also explains that if there is not excess in the grid, the chargers get reduced power to share - or none at all. Given that most western nations have gone down the solar/windmill route and shut down reliable power generation (generators that can produce a steady and relaible *amount* of power), often EV charge stations get only a fraction of the power they *could* transmit to the EV.
The Benny Hill theme must be required to blare from any EV emergency vehicle responding to a call.
They are beholden to the prevalent zeitgeist green left climate change ideology. Many young people work at those companies, who have been thoroughly indoctrinated at university. They don't care about practical limitations, they are 'believers'...
only in Canberra
That's so true, I can picture it now them driving along at high speed with Yakity Sax blaring away 🤣
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
I asked a British Gas van driver at a retail park who was charging his EV vehicle how much time he lost each day charging. He told me about 2 hours. This wasted time will obviously go on to customers bills. As if Gas and electricity bills are not high enough already ! This madness MUST STOP !
It wont stop because the electrification of industry is just beginning. It’s unstoppable evolution because burning oil is far worse for humanity.
@@AlanWilliams-su4bs You have been brain washed. I have just bought a Brand New 2.2 litre Mazda Diesel car. Watch MacMaster Electric cars THEY ARE NOT THE FUTURE - th-cam.com/video/OfM2ih3B5QA/w-d-xo.html
@@AlanWilliams-su4bsfound the short bus rider
Truck drivers are required, by law, to keep a record of their time/trip as they have a maximum number of hours to drive during a 24 hour period. This does not apply to driverless rigs.
@@AlanWilliams-su4bs I predict the EV market will collapse under its own weight by 2040.
I bet the primmover had a diesel truck with a massive diesel generator on the back following it discreetly out of camera shot all the way 🤫
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
The bigger the battery the bigger the fire, I’ve seen on the news that fires can be a bit of a problem in Australia
Only because normal truck fires are not deemed newsworthy.
Only because they burn about ~2,000C degrees lower than battery fires. 🤦🏻♂️
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Mini nuke
I only discovered your channel yesterday and I am really enjoying the content.
Spead the word..I subscribed two weeks ago and his subscribers are going through the roof people are really hungry for this stuff.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
We have the same virtual signalling insanity. A concrete company here in New Zealand bought a electric concrete truck which obviously is only used in Wellington which is the left/green idiocracy capital. It has to be an eight wheeler to carry the massive weight of the battery which weighs two tonnes and is massive and site behind the cab. The truck costs $615,000. A regular concrete truck costs between $200,000 to $300,000. It will never make its money back but is purely to virtual signal to the government.(Thats why its in Wellington.)
It is probably also only used when the cameras are rolling.
I've been making this point since day 1. Just imagine what is going to happen when everyone at a tourist town or ski resort or beach all need to leave at 4pm on Sunday to get back home ready for work Monday morning. There is going to be a queue of up to 2,000 cars and if every car could charge in half an hour - which they cant it would take 4 days for all the cars to charge if there was 10 chargers being used 24 hrs a day with 0 seconds to change cars between charges. When the number of ev's gets up to about 25% of the cars on the road - they are fooked!
What makes you think people will need to charge at the resort to get home? How many day trippers drive to the beach or ski resort from further than 250 miles away, unless they have come for the week. Even then, most people will be topping up on a slow charger overnight while they are sleeping and they won't all be doing it at the same time. The 'impossible hurdles' the anti-EV zealots see in the inevitable electrification of transport are much exaggerated.
Because the resorts here are hundreds of kilometers from the major cities, Sydney is about 480km from Thredbo for instance so yeah, they are going to charge at the resort.@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270
Norway somehow manages no problem
Im sure it does and Norway's area is 385,000 sq kilometers and here it is 7.7 million. Which is a bit of difference and its pretty usual to not see towns or cities for 200km on highways. How many countries could you go through in Europe if you drove 200km because here you could drive 500km and not see a building.
Assuming they don't have the range, they will charge overnight when not in use, like EV owners do now. Stop comparing EVs to ICE cars. they aren't
Not sure if my maths is correct, but according to Volvo specs, one of their FH-16 6X4 diesel prime movers has a 610 litre fuel tank either side. It uses approx 30 litres per 100km. Brisbane to Canberra about 1,200 km. Would use about 360 litres from it's 1,220 tank capacity for that trip. Even pulling it's heaviest load and in the worst, least fuel efficient circumstances, it would easily get to Canberra and back with fuel to spare. I will happily stand corrected if someone can point out how I've got this wrong.
And where does the power come from to charge them? I call them RCE.... Remote Combustion Engine
Solar, Wind will generate electricity to manufacture Hydrogen.....will be a decade away but will happen
😂 excellent point.
Of course these charges are also all green...on paper 😊
“RCE.” Awesome.
That's exactly what they are - thank you for formally naming it. Electricity transmits energy, it's not in itself a fuel. To produce energy, something must burn (starting with the Sun, of course).
Excellent term!
Recently, I came up with the term ECE... External combustion engine, for when they catch fire. Thought it wouldn't take long to find a discussion to use it, but oddly, it hasn't come up.
....And don't forget the incredible power-grid loading for just ONE of these 240-charger stations in a town. At 150kw each charger, that's an enormous 36 Megawatt allowance! The same power requirement for a town of 20,000 people! We're talking a large 66,000volt substation needed to for that one fuel stop. It's a huge footprint. Probably 6000 square feet of land. Bonkers.
The payload of the truck is significantly reduced due to the weight of the EV battery. I have seen figures of seven tonne reductions. Overall an expensive truck, trip time increase and lost payload. What a great idea.
The Tesla Semi can haul just as much as a diesel semi. Regulations have changed to allow the GVW for zero emission trucks to be 2 tonnes higher. Losing the big engine and gearbox, adding the battery and motor makes an electric semi about 4 tonnes heavier than the diesel. But battery energy density is not standing still, making this truck 5 years ago would have meant a 5 tonne deficit, energy density of batteries improves year on year and we are only at the early stages of electrification of ground transportation which is inevitable and a huge benefit all around.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Total bollox from a bulging-eyed believer.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 There are some good points you made, battery density has increased year to year and regulations allowing for a higher GVWR for electric-powered trucks kind of puts them in their only category. One thing you have to think about is the generation of the electric needed to recharge those trucks, truck stops along the interstates will probably need a supplemental power source to help with the increased demand. Depending on the location they could have 10 acres of solar panels with windmills in between them and/or a smaller scale nuclear or natural gas fired plant. Maybe a large scale stationary diesel powered generator with at least an output of 1Mw which could only handle 4 trucks at a time and have one every 200 miles or so along the interstate. At least here in U.S.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270bullshit!!! The tesla semi is over 1000hp doing the job of 500hp diesel trucks! In Australia 650hp diesel trucks hauls about 4x the load of that tesla so nothing to compare
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 diesel trucks have also been improving significantly on fuel economy too! We might even see in the future diesel electric truck that works like trains to still provide over tousands of miles of range.
The difficulty in doing a calculation of the chargers needed, is that you need information about the volume of traffic along the routes. You have a daily average and then you have peak season spikes. The problem with a queue is that it rises exponentially once a system is at capacity. This afternoon I filled my wifes car and I doubt I was at the petrol station for more than 3 minutes. So for a well designed petrol station on a major route like the Hume Highway they can really turn over customers very quickly. Plus the fact that you have a lot of petrol stations along that route means you can disperse your queue. When you couple that with ICE vehicles have quite long fuel ranges, it means they don’t need to fill up that often.
As others have commented, it is not just a question of installing a charging station, you also need to create the generating and transmission infrastructure to deliver the flow of electricity to deal with peak demand. The footprint you need if you want to use wind and solar generation to supply an EV fleet of Easter holiday or Xmas holiday travellers along the Australian eastern seaboard will be colossal. Assuming of course you have the money to pay for that infrastructure in the first place.
Exactly, these EV’s require a lot more infrastructure support than ICE vehicles and that will result in more energy and materials being used with resultant pollution. The big advantage is clean air in large cities which is a major issue but the pollution is just shifted elsewhere.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Totally agree with you. Actually, I was just thinking yesterday, what if they replaced all of our CFA trucks with EV trucks? It is summer with the potential of a major bush fire, right in the midst the EV runs out of charge, forget about thermal runaway.
Just think if emergency vehicles had to rely on electricity?, that's an even scarier thought!
Exactly, as a firefighter (vegetation) the most likely times we get called out are during storms, what happens during a storm? the power goes out, last time for two days. Some of our fires we wouldn't even get there and back on a charge let alone spend hours on the fireground. Pointed that out to one of the shiney bums and they hadn't thought of that.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
you absolutely nailed it ...the green nutters never look at realities, only theoretical wishes...and another idea for you to investigate Elecrtic car battery replacement.
If our petrol / diesel car needs a part - they are manufactured and distributed and sit on the dealers shelf until required - ie a metal part is still new and useable 10 / even 20 years later ...these parts stay "new".
Now - if you buy an EV today -it has a specific battery made to fit it ...they have specific size, connections, and often water cooling connections....
now 5/7 /10 years down the track, when that battery has failed ( and in use they degrade to a point they are useless) could you even buy a suitable replacement ? Given the ever evolving technology in this area, chances are that you could not get a direct replacement.
Now here is the crux of this - and a serious question to ask the manufacturers and car importers ...they wty the battery - but can i get a similar replacement in 3 years ?
The reason this becomes important is that if the answer was YES - then when was that battery manufactured ? If it was made 3 years ago - that battery has done what ? sat on a shelf which means it degrades so it isn't new at all ...its used up a portion of it's life as it degrades.
Or - if the dealer has kept it for 1 year / 2 / 5 ...have they kept them charged ? What dealer is going to have batteries sitting being charged ( they are a major hazard / fire risk ) in their parts store ?
NONE I suspect. And , if they did have one a year old battery , once again it's a used item ...it degrades from day one of manufacture
Great report, these truck batteries would be huge with charging required in some really remote places.
6,000kg on the Tesla Semi. If we subtract a conventional diesel engine and fuel, thats about a 4,500kg penalty on payload, or losing about 20% of the normal semi trailer payload. That battery would need to be recharged 2 or 3 times a day, shortening its lifespan a lot. Most electric cars get recharged once a week.
@@wazza33raceranother thing! The tesla semi is over 1000hp and it's doing the job of 500hp diesel semis while the 650hp diesels are moving about 4x it's load
@@simonbutler6019 The busiest segment between Sydney and Brisbane only sees 28,600 vehicles per day. I'd be willing to be only a minority are trucks.
@@carholic-sz3qv You realize that EVs are like gas engines. The max HP is basically free and you just limit it based on the ability to put it to the ground. It's not like a 500HP EV would do the job but why artificially limit the motor when the tires can easily use 1000HP? In the US EVs only get a 2 ton advantage so it's likely that they can't haul as much as a diesel tractor but it's very close. In no way is it 4x less.
@@wazza33racer Australia gives EV trucks a weight advantage per axle to negate the extra weight.
I love seeing people at charging stations sitting in their cars, twiddling their fingers, but the fun hasn't even got going yet!
They should not sit inside while charging unless they want their insides artificially toasted.
Most people just charge at home.
@Audioremedy0785 but that doesn't sound like madness.....
@@ianhansen6840 it’s not. It’s totally normal.
I have thought of the charging chaos.2 summers ago in UK pulled on services here in UK it was a lovely day.So loads of cars had stopped for a break I said to myself if all these were EVS the queues would be enormous.Plus our National Grid could not cope.Lorries would be even worse.With charging waiting time you would have less time to deliver as there is a maximum working day by law in UK.Madness.
The day would be taken up by charging So less delivering less profit.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
We worked out if they had done this at Chobham service on the M25 in the uk the charging area would have to be a Square mile just to fit the pumps in lol
They don’t want most of us in cars or travelling anywhere, so the number of chargers will become a minor issue…15 minute cities etc.
They are certainly doing everything to discourage driving: Endless roadworks with street closures (with nothing actually happening), sacred cow laws for cyclists, ever reducing speed limits, speed humps everywhere, disappearance of almost all free parking, disappearance of almost all traffic cops - allowing hoons to rule the roads, supposed "tougher licensing tests" where bad drivers are passed but good drivers are failed and traffic lights timed on major roads to punish drivers who drive to speed limits. They hate us.
Meanwhile Cannon Ball Run for BEVs has settled around 44 hours for most attempts WITH charging problems. Over the freaking 2,800 miles distance 44 hours is not a safe speed and requires tandem driving and very little rest. Where else you going to drive, into the ocean?
Agree most are pissing the real agenda, private cars will be faded out.
"You will own nothing and you will be happy"
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Another nice article. I was in Norway where they have gone electric in a big way and have seen a queue of cars waiting to get into a carpark where they all need to charge. The carpark had 50 spaces!
They can do it because they have oil
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
How will an interstate truck driver make any money having to stop several times for hours each time?
Exactly. Australia is the last place on earth that needs EV trucks
They are already required to make stops. 250kW charging is not viable though. They need to install 750kW dedicated semi chargers for sure.
Robot trucks , we'll all be unemployed.
By charging more :)
@@dmitripogosian5084 A truck driver is not making money while his/her truck is parked. It takes around ten hours to drive from Melbourne to Sydney. Stopping to charge an electric truck would almost double that. At that point, the driver would have exceeded his/her legal working hours without a sleeping period.
Perhaps you're thinking of city-based delivery vans, which could top up for ten or fifteen minutes at each delivery point while the forklift driver unloads and loads.
In the UK, many EV charging points cannot sustain claimed charging output once more than one car is plugged in. Just imagine the chaos that would ensue if a bloody great big truck plugged in 😂
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Greetings from Finland. Yesterday the other Swedish truckmaker Scania announced that it will stop making e-trucks. Their losses are over 1,2 billion euros with those thingys and no-one is buying them.
Thank you for that news. It's hopeful.
Fantastic news. Someone is thinking.
The reason Scania was going down the Etruck road was because management was stacked with green left eco loons who wanted to look so progressive. The market quickly corrected their delusional ideas.
This is fake news. I didn't find such an announcement, nowhere on the internet. Scania is releasing better e-trucks every year. Besides, it has reached an agreement with ABB to build a new charging infrastructure up to 600KW.
As an electrician nearly bought an EV price jumped from £40,000 to £56,000 for longer range & performance. The other problem was battery life in years as I wanted to purchase outright. Did look at vans but the range was so poor to get to site for 8.30am I'm up at 4am to leave at 5. A one hour charge would mean leaving on Sunday. Ps insurance companies don't want you to put charge points less thab 7.5 M from commercial property. Wonder why.
Don't these chargers de-rate themselves if too many EVs are charging, thus exceeding what the infrastructure the chargers are plugged into can provide? So max charge rate if you're the only one charging, not so much if all the chargers are in use... provided they're working at all.
Yep, forever chasing your tail.
Just have a bank of good Diesel generators that can be turned on as there’s more demand for charging! Of course that defeats the purpose of electric vehicles…
@@markiangooley
Hey it's an LGV, maybe they can tow one of those BIG diesel gen-sets behind them for this purpose!? 😉
Trains have done diesel-elec drivetrains for a long time now, maybe we're gonna see road trucks do it now too with a makeshift setup like that!? 😂
@@markiangooley Diesel generators are so inefficient they aren't practical. Go lookup what you would need to supply 1.2MW of power. That would only run 8 chargers. Battery buffers are the way to go if a site has limited input power.
Chargers have a site rating and a per stall rating. So if you have 4x 250kW stalls and 800kW of site power than yes, if you have 4 EVs pull in at exactly the same time at 10% SOC then none of them would get full power. After they all hit 30% SOC it wouldn't matter if the site power was 1000kW, they can only pull 800kW. Of course this rarely ever happens. Typical there is a mix of demand from each stall and the site power is more than enough so every EV can pull their max.
And one other thing, when the EV trucks are waiting to use the chargers and they run out of charge, who and how are these moved?? They would then block the roads and chargers.
It is madness, personified.
The fuelling time difference between diesel end electric is really much larger. The range of a diesel truck is at least 4, (and may be as much as 6 or 7) times as large as the range of an electric truck . Therefore the fuelling time difference is more like a 5 min fill for diesel truck vs 10 to 15+ hours of charging time an electric truck to make it travel the same distance as a single diesel fill up.
Also as the electric truck has a lower payload capacity compared to a diesel truck due to the weight of the battery) so the operator loses money due to the lower payload capacity.
In addition the operator looses money while operating an electric truck due to the decreased truck utilization and increased labour costs incurred as a result or the log periods the truck is off the road during charging.
Also the claimed charging times for those things are waaaay off. Several hours at least if there is only one of them charging at a station. If there are more then you're looking at possibly a whole day.
15 min fill for diesel. 10 hours plus for electricity
To increase the range on a diesel truck you add a fuel tank, which has very little weight until it is required and then filled, the range extender battery has the same weight regardless of whether or not it is required on that trip, weight that not only cuts payload but also range. The real question that no one seems to have addressed is how desirable will it be to subsequent owners, as you have to sell it on to afford the next new one or the next new one to you, and as a truck may have several owners over a long lifespan, each owner getting a bit more value from it, the second hand economics which allows the new to be purchased will be interesting.
You've obviously never filled a diesel semi. First you wait in line. When it is time to pump, it takes 20 minutes, not 5 on average. You're not adding 20 gallons but 150-300 gallons. Even with high speed pumps it takes time. This all counts toward your break time but you're not really free to do what you want. With an EV truck you spend 15 seconds plugging it in and then you're on full break time.
Simply put, if the same load was carried on a long range diesel truck that was being timed at start with a full tank, then the journey could be made without a refill, just mandatory rest stops. It could be in Canberra, offloaded, refueled, reloaded & ready to return before the eTruck had made any significant distance from the departure point.
The suggested dedicated "quick battery swap" stations are a long way off & does anyone want to be swapping their near new, low mileage battery for someone else's older, much used/abused battery on their way to Outer Oodnagalarby in the Never Never. Australia is a BIG place & there are many places still waiting for landline/optic fiber phone & internet. Large capacity electricity lines to these areas for EV charging is still a long way off.
I live in Scotland, near Pitlochry, not exactly the arse-end of nowhere. We still don't have fibre internet and BT tell me there are no plans to fit it. On a good day I get 3-4 mb. Brave new electronic world? I don't think so.
I work in the design dept for an electrical distribution department, we are now getting hundreds of commercial customers now asking for extra power for all of their new EV fleet of vehicles.
And in almost all cases the extra power required is more than the existing factory or plant is using. [I’ll repeat that] *the power required for their new EV vehicles or more than the entire factory is currently using*
As a result we’re are going to have to charge them to upgrade the existing network in the area otherwise that part of town will become overloaded and unable to cope with the demand.
There is one elite car company in my area that have a logistics storehouse/warehouse where all of the car parts get delivered to from all over the world and are stored, they then they use their own arctic lorries to transport the car parts 7 miles to the factory if and when they need them.
They are now going to change all of their arctic delivery lorries to EV vehicles so we need to upgrade the entire network in that part of the city to be able to cope with their power demand in their lorry park where they are going to charge them up.
This will cost approx 1 quarter of a million [pounds sterling] and that is for the electrical distribution network upgrade alone.
The result of this is that these electric delivery lorries will only ever travel a total of 14miles from the warehouse to the factory and back.
But you will see this company boasting that their entire fleet of delivery lorries are going to be all electric.
their car parts coming from all over the world are delivered by other companies so that won’t get publicised.
Every time an electric vehicle is advertised, I always ask how many kilowatts it will take to charge the battery! They never mentioned this because they knew everyone will be shocked! 😂😂😂
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
I've considered this too, and it is total insanity. A truck requiring a 0.5MW battery (maybe 2T in weight), and if it was fully loaded would have a range of about 100-150 miles before having to stop for HOURS to re-charge. Let's see them take trips through the Aussie outback in one of those! Drivers sitting round doing nothing, companies losing money hand over fist while trucks sit idle.
Batteries weight around 10lbs per kW so more 2300kG or 2.3 metric tons. In AU they give EVs extra weight per axle to make this a non-issue. Charging from 10% to 80% should be more like 1.5 hours. You don't charge EVs from 0% to 100%. For obvious reasons you don't want to arrive at 0%. Above 80% the rate really slows down so you stop there. For sure they need the 750kW chargers the US has in AU to support EV trucks.
Drivers wont be payed during charge times, also 2nd driver will no longer be needed for non stop runs in large countries. Ask Ford how its F150 electric truck turned out, who would of thought it gets cold in the winter and electric heat sucks juice. Politicians make decisions based on how much cash ends up in their pockets.
Robot trucks , we'll all be unemployed.
Would be interesting to watch outback truckers if they were all EV, more about chatting around the charger with their double soy lattes than actual trucking. First one to cross a swollen creek bursts into flame due to battery getting wet.
They just raise the prices of everything, and the consumer pays the price.
It also assumes the battery pack will accept 250kW charge rate from start to finish. I wonder how they achieve that?
It's anyway very optimistic to think that you will get the same charging time after installing 240 charging points... The kWh will go down massively, meaning you won't get a 240 car throughput in an hour, but it'll take much longer. So a throughput of 240 cars per hour is simply impossible.
I watched this video with a smile on my face. I just can't believe it. These in charge are completely bonkers!
Increasing the number of EV's charging will reduce the speed any one EV can charge at. Charging times will not only depend on charging points but also the available kW at the facility which will have to be shared with all the available charging points
Exactly
This is what none of the "electric utopia" sheeple comprehend. The more bleating halfwits follow them into the electric sheep pen, the longer they're all going to have to sit at charging stations, bleating their idiot lives away.
Sites with limited available KW will use battery buffers to make up the difference. It's not like this hasn't already been solved at many sites around the world already.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Charging stations will require a large diesel generator capable of variable output.
Within the past couple of days or so they had an incident in San Francisco where an electric bus lost power as it was going up an especially steep street. For some reason that was not explained it was not able to stop itself in place and rolled back down the street. Something like 9 cars were severely damaged if not totaled as a result and one person was injured badly enough to require hospitalization before the bus finally came to a rest.
I found this to be somewhat shocking as I would have thought such a vehicle would have had standard hydraulic brakes and still be able to stop itself regardless of how much power it had. Well, either it didn't have such brakes or those brakes failed. However, if this is the sort of thing one can potentially expect from electric vehicles then add it to the list of why they are an incredibly bad idea. Especially in San Francisco and other areas where they have a lot of steep hills.
Interesting report and good points made, especially with throughput for refuelling / charging. The journey was 745 miles. Lands end to John O Groats here in the UK is 837 miles and can be done in just under 15 hours.
Yep. And that's using ALL sorts of regular tiny roads with wacky steep gradients when you get closer to the extremities of the North/South of UK! I bet this big Volvo had a nice wide mostly-flat road to drive on whilst it "took a few days" to make the journey!
In a diesel truck. An eleccy truck will spend that time stopped charging. And Europe only has big utes not real trucks. Single drive towing a trailer just like an American camper!!
@@ZIGZAG12345The road is mostly divided freeway but there are some hills. Canberra is at an altitude of 600 m (2,000 ft) and there are some parts of the freeway that exceed 800 m. Brisbane is at sea level.
If you had an electric fire engine, what do they propose to use to power the pumps for the water needed to put a fire out because a battery wouldn't last very long ?
Well...🤔what happens is...they're gonna put a diesel generator set on each truck to pump the water!!..🙄and also it can be used to charge the battery at the same time!💥voila!!👌👊🙌
@@glengrant3884 no solar panels on the roof of the truck lol
Trucking depends massively on the vehicle actually moving and delivering things for it to make money. If it’s sat at a charger for hours on end doing nothing that’s money wasted. The trucking company would go out of business in a matter of weeks if trucks had to be electric.
This truck can only do about 190 miles on a charge (300km) so assuming you charge 10-80% every time from a 200kw charger, you’re going to have to stop and recharge every 130 miles for 2 hours.
And that’s assuming you don’t drive up any hills and that you can find a 200kw charger when you need one and that there’s a space available.
Except of course it will simply mean that the price of everything will skyrocket and the cost of the EV truck insanity will be carried by the ultimate consumers i.e. us.
Get into semi recovery. I keep seeing tesla semis being towed back to charge points around here constantly because they run out of juice just doing the Pepsi routes around the flat local area.
I saw tons of electric delivery vans a couple years ago, i thought back then it was a terrible idea. And now i dont see any electric vans driving, all replaced by Diesels. I wonder what will happen to all those ev's lol. The same will happen with these trucks. Hell these plans wont even get of the ground i bet.
In the UK many councils are trialling electric refuse collection lorries. This is despite them costing much more than the ICE equivalents that they already have and despite the fact that most councils are facing considerable budget problems. And worse, this is despite the evidence of regular problems experienced by those councils that have completed trials and have now rolled out the fleet - news from residents in these councils are of failed refuse collections because the lorries are breaking down more often, running out of charge during their working routes or are simply not charged at the start of the shift.
Too many of our local councils are ideologically driven. There's no logical thinking, just a starry-eyed belief in 'the latest thing.'
It's OK because they pay for this out of our Council Tax!
I've mentioned this before elsewhere. A relative of mine, in England, has a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Even with petrol at GBP1.60/litre, around A$3.00, he finds it cheaper to run the thing on petrol rather than electricity!
I stand on a motorway bridge for just a few minutes and count 25 HGVs, just imagine the chaos at charging stations snd the price of haulage costs unimaginable...
Side consideration made by an italian. In italiy there are 40 million cars in circulation, while the number of fuel stations is equal to 22,654 (approximately 1,755 cars for each refueling station). We therefore estimate a total of 92,000 petrol pumps present in the country (4 pumps on average per station)
Amount of charging stations estimated as necessary if the car fleet should be totally electric = 92000*2*4 = 736000 (range of ICE is 2 time the range of BEV and the filling time of BEV is 4 time is slower than ICE)
Electric charging stations currently (October 2023) available in Italy = 47,228 (6% of the total required at the time of full replacement of ICE ith BEV)
EV's will also need more frequent visits to chargers, in most cases it could be double.
So to be green you would need about 1350 square meters of solar panels working at 100% for 2 hours for 1 truck.
I did a calculation a couple of years ago and iirc, we would require around 75% of area of Tasmania to be dedicated to solar to power our great nation......and then you can probably add another 50% or so for batteries of some description. In Britain they'd need to lose Wales and Greater Birmingham. I can't see how wind/solar are the answer even we ignore the ecological disaster arising from the dedication of land area.
@@davelloyd- I think if the USA was solar it would cost us a whole state. Most of Nevada I think was the calculation someone come up with.
@@icedriver2207nope. It could all fit in the Navajo reservation. Now calculate how much land area of the US is taken up by roofs or parking lots.
great video. imagine if EV had come first with their 150 mile range and one hour charge time, a new car is invented running on this new fuel, diesel. fill up in 5 minutes with a 700 miile range, that cost less than half the cost of an EV, cheaper to insure and repair, and doesn't self combust. how many EVs would sell then
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
Scania is having problems now because they have invested so much money in electric trucks but can't sell them, so they are seeking help from the Swedish government.
Of course... No subsidies, no green😊, literally💵💵💵
Help from the Swedish Government!!!! I suppose you mean from the Swedish taxpayers. So you and me may solve the problem for a commercial company and I tell you when they cannot solve and pay it themselves they have no right to exist!
The Swedish Govt being left and green thought it good idea and subsidised these things. That are as popular as Covid!!@@samorprong
Add to that Volkswagen 192 billion loss, Ford just declared they are going back to ICE cars after huge losses, it looks like Toyota was right all along. They have a plan for a hydrogen powered car ….that would be clean ….emitting only water….but it would work like a normal car IE the government couldn’t switch it off and limit your travel or price you out of the market, so guess what? They don’t want that. Which just shows this climate nonsense is just that….nonsense! They only want to use it to control us.
Let me tell you a short, back of the envelope result that me and a coworker got in our coffee break: Germany needs 150 nuclear plants or, in another unit.. lets say a France worth of nuclear generating capability, 3xFranceNuclear to be able to charge all currently personal cars (excluding trucks) if they were instantly switched to BEVs!
I call BS. In the US, capacity would only need to increase by 30%. That doesn’t take into account load balancing by time of day or all the solar roofs getting installed. As always, Norway is the proof that the infrastructure can support EV mass adoption.
@@brendykes1202Norway is different from the US.
@@ExploringCabinsandMines well yeah, it’s colder, so EVs are ostensibly more of a challenge there.
I can't imagine how much damage to roads a truck that has a huge battery running it.
In Australia, in November, in the spring/summer. I'm here stuck in a snow storm in Montana USA. there's no way I'm replacing my rig with an EV, I would literally die.
To even consider charging them is insane. It would take more than 24 hours to fill up. I would not make money during the winter or summer.
Will drivers get paid the time it takes to charge and what about power outages
To put it in perspective for USA folks whose home power systems are 240 volts, single phase: a 250 kWh charger requires , at 240 volts single phase, 1041 amps! Of course in the USA these chargers will be fed by three phase systems at maybe 480 volts requiring only 300 amps!
In the USA, residential homes are supplied by a 25 kva (kW for resistive loads) transformer serving 5 homes which will not supply enough energy for EV charging.
if they wanna electrify cargo, just electrify cargo rail and passenger rail while you are at it. and then have last mile trucks going out to their destination from the railway yard.
Australia would be a good place to do this as you have large populations linked by large open spaces, making it ideal for a rail/depot setup, all you would need is the massive investment in the infrastructure.
like we used to here in UK years a go.
it's nothing new
Oddly enough, that's what the UK had until Dr Beeching did his bit and destroyed the railway system in the 60s. UK Govt only now realise what we were gifted by the Victorians and wantonly threw away because some clown with a vested interest (Ernest Marples anyone?) said road transport was always going to be cheaper and quicker.
Yep...... I'm with you 100%. There seem to be two very clearly defined types of people on this planet. Those who function on emotion and who hold 'airy fairy' beliefs which are so easily sold to them....... And thinking, pragmatic, common sense people who are pretty rational for the most. Who are quite reasonable in their beliefs and expectations. Who are always open to what is best and to what can bring about better outcomes but who don't go running with the herd every time it changes direction or picks up on some new agenda or gimmick.
Guaranteed....... If you asked 100 people of the first group, just exactly where does the current come from to charge up these vehicles in their fancy new 'charging stations', I honestly do not think 80 of those people could tell you. And so many more would be stunned to know that it was either gas or coal which was needed to charge those silly and very dangerous batteries. There are photos online of small EV's towing around large diesel gen sets. What a joke.
Perfect excuse for the police and emergency services. "Oh yes, we'll be there in an hour or so as soon as we've recharged the vehicle."
Make sure all police have EVs. A driver with an ICE car can far outlast an EV at high speeds.
For most daily driving, the goal should be to set things up so the vast majority of people can charge either at home or at work using a 3-7kW L2 grid connection or possibly inductive charging built into curb-side parking spaces, not at DC fast-chargers. As for how long people actually stay at fast-chargers, expect that to get down to about 15min typical as cars and chargers with 250+kW of throughput on 800V architectures become more common. When you charge an EV and want to optimize your stops for fastest overall speed and lowest overall cost, you usually cannot go much beyond 65% before charging speed slows down, especially at by-the-hour chargers which are common in NA. You get to the charger, put about 50kWh in to get the battery back from 10% to 65-70%, then proceed to your destination or next charger. At 250kW, that should take about 12min excluding setup time.
Cruise ships use electric motors to drive the propellers but They also need huge Diesel engines to provide the electric power.
Sometimes they use gas turbines as well to generate the electricity. The reason they do it this way is to simplfy the system. Running electrical cables to the electric motors eliminates mechanical complexity. It's also more versatile. It's like diesel/electric locomotives in this regard.
Same with those really big mining trucks, diesel generators with electric final drives, you get all of the torque immediately and there's no giant gearbox, diffs or driveshafts needed.
Great vid, Thanks. A point on the drivers, these days most long haul drivers are paid by the kilometer, not the hour. I drove, mostly long haul for 30+ years and the thought of standing around with my finger up my bum and not getting paid while my eco friendly "Electric- shitheap" charges for an hour or more would really grind my gears. So, getting old mate out of a EV truck back into a diesel, just to make some real money is a no-brainer. Can you imagine the mess after the Electric -shitheap hits one of those legendary Hume Highway pot holes and then goes into thermal runaway, Yep! you'll get knocked over in the rush as all the pollies leave town for extended holidays in a location with no mobile service.......just add, log books, freight delivery contracts, load weights, re-establishing highway service centres to suit EV-shitheaps.
On the Newell highway you have to steer around the potholes or risk damaging suspension and wheels.
If they're doing it in scheduled rest periods it also won't work as planned.
You can't just plug it in and go to sleep for 8 hours as if it charges in say 4 hours you're going to be blocking a charge point if you stay there.
So are drivers going to have to plug it in, go to sleep for a few hours, and then get out and move the truck?
From my time in logistics it's actually illegal to move the truck if the driver is out of hours and supposed to be on a rest break afaik.
Maybe a current truck driver may be able to confirm this is correct.
refueling is work time not rest so they cant count that as sleep time and who would be happy sleeping in a truck on charge
You are 100 % correct.
@@Peter-df8nc There you go.
That's sort of what I thought but I wasn't completely sure and there's enough bs in the EV space without me adding to it.
I know we used to get drivers to sign a form to say that they were within their allotted hours before we could load them as having a truck stuck in a bay or on site would have been ugly.
@@nicklovell8148Cheers.
So in other words that will mean that charging time will actually cut into driving time and not rest times as they tried to say.
Well Simon again you have hit the nail on the head - this sheer insanity and I for one am quite amazed at anyone thinking that these trucks are good idea are living in la-la land and should be put away from the rest of us in some secure institution. Another point is how on this planet could they have EV fire trucks given that they such short ranges and operate in some really extreme circumstances and terrain it is simply a ridiculous notion ?
Conveniently they provided combined weight. I want to see a separate details of the battery and weight of the commercial cargo delivered. I am pretty sure I will lough my ass off...
We have vlovo electric trick at work, in uk, now the old saying if an HGV not moving its not earning, not only does it cost 50% more to buy but the driver can only do if I'm correct 200miles, and that's if its not pulling a full load, then the charging areas on the services ? What do they expect us to do,drop high value load in the truck bays,drive off to car chargers and sit their for 1.30hrs? Because any more time and we will be charged £30 for overstaying over 2hrs, then when the drive gets back to base he's sat there for 12hrs for complete charge,so in essence takes longer to get anywhere by upto half a day because we are capt at 13hr day and 9hr drive and some of this is now lost due to charging at 1.30hrs at a go,it cost double compared to diesel for given distance, truck cost more to buy,and the driver cannot do the working hours or delivery compared to the diesel? So all this cost will have to be passed on to the public with higher prices for goods,and you'll also need to factor you'll need more trucks=more drivers=more cost,just to achieve what the dirty diesel can achieve....this is NOT THE FUTURE, onwards my friends
Can't imagine an EV truck pulling 40 tonne up a big hill in 30 degrees celcius. The lack of low gearing might start a fire as the electric motors start getting hot. Going downhill without a Jacobs engine brake will be interesting too.
regenerative braking will slow it just the same as in diesel locomotives
You're suggesting that truck builders don't test their vehicles?
Jane, they can test their EV trucks all they want. Batteries aren't going to overcome those challenges he described.
Retired trucker here. Electric can have some uses, they could be used for city work, going out bringing freight to terminals or local delivery. They could be used by companies like FedEx or UPS to haul light freight terminal to terminal (have to plug in and recharge before return) Wouldn't be able to do long haul or heavy tho.
Better option would be go down the rout Edison Motors is doing, go hybrid. Batteries can be charged at terminal/yard, go to work, when the charge drops, a little 9L diesel under the hood fires up and charges the batteries, shuts off when 80% or so, the lil engine would only run in the sweet spot, no revving up and down, so it operation at peak efficiency. Still think the ICE is the best bet, but not going to turn away from a better way to do something if it appears. Biggest issue is lithium ion batteries like to burn, new batteries coming too market right now, dont seem to have that problem.
Be interesting to watch
Such truth that you have spoken. I guess some evil minds are at work trying to mess up our lives just for the heck of it. Maybe they know what they are doing and are grinning.
EVs without infrastructure are junk.
Hybrids are the best short term answer until batteries and infrastructure catch up.
Steam engine went extinct in the 40s and diesel electric locomotives have been their replacement sonce them. Today, Edison Motors has a succesful hybrid logging truck that beats the Tesla in both power and most importantly NRA. No range anxiety.
Get it straight .. The infrastructure TODAY CAN NOT support EVs but hybrids can and are doing it with mo infrastructure change and BETTER FUEL ECONOMY WITH PROVE TECHNOLOGY
It is already chaos in Britain and parts of Europe where lines form for limited chargers that is made even worse by the fact that they breakdown very often. There is also the situation where the chargers power output is reduced when power in the grid is low. Trips in Britain are also very expensive when driving a BEV.
hilarious - the ad I saw after this video was for electric bikes. Talk about irony.
Electric cars a brilliant. Had one for 5 years, saving a ton of money and enjoying my driving like never before.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 The only reason EV's are enjoyable is because they are bludging off all the ICE vehicles that are paying for the roads. Nothing worse than a smug bludger.
Not sure how that's irony.....if the truck was delivering fossil fuel combustion cars, wouldn't that be more ironic? Just asking as I'm not sure of irony definition and was puzzled by Alanis Morrisette 🤔
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Glad it worked for you. Happy that you are happy, but EVs are just not as good as an ICE vehicle or we would all be buying them. When an EV can perform the same duties as an ICE vehilcle, nobody will need convincing or subsidies to buy them. When they are better, there will be no question. Unil then, they are fun toys but inferior in every real way.
As an HGV driver myself, I've spoken to Volvo mechanics about the Volvo FH electric and apparently the batteries are £65k each , of which there are 6 anbecause of that cost the truck is pretty much scrap at the end of a 5yr lease.
In that article it says that it was charged during the drivers regulatory break... in the U.K a HGV drivers break has to be time which he is free to do with the time as he sees fit but under no circumstances does that include work and refueling is considered work so in the U.K the charging would have to be separate. Plus I want my break when and where I want it , not when a machine tells me I have to take it cause its ran out of juice.
Finally.. the range of my diesel Volvo is approximately 1200miles between refueling.
My biggest concern regarding the truck drivers is their welfare. Imagine the weight gain consuming pies and Coca Cola whilst waiting for the batteries to charge.
Haha!!!
Recharge throughput issue is MASSIVE. Thank you for highlighting.
It will be interesting to see how Janus go with their rapid swap battery system. They are currently aiming at a Brisbane to Sydney specific market.
Now why would you want to swap out your brand new battery and get a battery that might be 5 years old. That would also end any warranty on your battery pack if it is not the original pack sold with the car.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869 maybe you should actually check out how their scheme works before commenting.
@@Arafury57 Doesn't matter because the vehicle manufacture is only responsible for the battery that came with the vehicle. You are talking about batteries that cost anywhere from $15,000 dollars all the way up to $30,000 dollars, the vehicle manufactures are not going to be willing to warranty you 6 month old vehicle when they discover there is a 6 year old battery in it that went bad.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869please look at this company before commenting. They give the warranty on the battery they change. The battery is not the one that comes with the truck, it is their own battery so the warranty is not a problem. Before commenting do some research.
@@dikkybee4003 I could care less if the company wants to give there own warranty, the manufacture of the vehicle no longer has to be responsible and now you are in a fight with the battery changing company saying its not them and the manufacture saying its not our battery go talk to the battery changing company.
Another way to look at it is to compare it to water. I lived in a community in New Jersey that had been in a draught for several years. We got just as much rain as when I moved to the state, so I asked about it. The explanation wasn't that water was less abundant but the population had grown several times creating a much larger demand. Hence, not enough water to go around.
EV's are like people in that they need resources (electricity) that we all take for granted, the way humans take water supply for granted. But, as the demand grows the amount of power drawn will exceed the amount of power created, just like too many people moving into a community will draw too much water.
Although ar least with water you can drill more wells pump more when demand is low and store the excess in tanks until needed. Electricity on the other hand has to be generated when drawn on. We are not building more "pumping stations" for electricity. We will end up with a man made electricity draught.
the only way that could be kind of viable is gantry sections with a pantograph on the trucks.. but why would you?.. just put them on a train... if carbon is their argument then why do they not put the total carbon into the equation?... smoke & mirrors
They were called trolley buses back in the 50s
@@onlyme972 what is old is new.... they claim their is a new solid state battery & it will fix everything... i say where is it?
Best large electric vehicle we're Trolley busses.
@@ghunt9146 powered by coal
@@ghunt9146totally agree and way better than trams, being cheaper and quicker to expand the network , its what they should have had in Edinburgh, they could have put the full system in and then expanded it easily and cheaply over the years to cover the whole city and even the surrounding areas.
Another thing they probably didn't think of is that the hauling capacity of these EV trucks will be less than with diesel. My company which happens to be one of the largest waste management companies in the US converted its entire fleet over to natural gas and one of the first things we noticed is that they were slightly smaller which translates into more trips to the transfer station or landfill per route which cut down on the amount of work that could be done in the span of a normal day. Project that over the span of a year and you have more hours wasted driving to and from a transfer station or landfill then actually collecting trash. The max DOT hours a driver can work in a week is 60 hours.
Electric trucks are great for hauling styrofoam 👍 not far away..
Another thing is that many areas cannot support multiple 250kw chargers. The grid feeding the area cannot handle the load. Even with multiple "fast chargers" for consumer vehicles if every charge bay is in use the charge rate drops to a fraction of full power to keep the load on the grid within safe limits. Just think of the atomic bomb type effect if that huge truck battery shorts out!
EVs will be great for outpricing vehicles for the common person so that only the elite can use them & the servants doing work for them, then they can ditch EVs once they have completed the desired task.
Even little Sad-dick Khan who brought in the ULEZ still drives around in a 5 litre Diesel Range Rover.
In the US numerous EVs are now cheaper than ICE cars.
@@brendykes1202 That's because they can't sell them.
@@tubemonks Bolts & Teslas sell very well. Model Y is the most popular car in the US.
@@brendykes1202 Yes but who buys them? Companies who receive subsidies, leased for 3 years or car hire companies? OK if you can charge it a work or home but otherwise they're a nightmare if they require charging on a long trip - Range Anxiety!!. Any private person who buys one who isn't going to use it for just popping to the local stores is going to have a nasty shock when they try to sell it or it requires repairs etc. They are NOT the future and they will end up as a white elephant around someone's neck. That's why they are cheap. Ford and GM are pulling back too.
I think what is missing is, the electric daisy chain figure here verses what the electric motor needs. The motor is gonna draw some power from that batt because the car has to move. To make this car move faster, uses more power. This by itself is RC toy\electric train toy\electric race track toy basics. Your not getting out of it no matter the software updated. So the batt has to have the ability to feed this motor to keep up with the performance of a gas/diesel powered car. The more items used, the more power draw you get. So the battery is not gonna be a easy thing to charge, it's not a phone batt or flash light batt. It is a huge power pack that can be over 200amps. And as you daisy chain chargers, you gonna get a drop for each in use.
And the more you use, the more the drop until it reaches it's holding base line, the longer it takes to charge. It's more than just watts and volts are being delt with, also amps because you have to push it back in the batt. The batt is not a magnet, not gonna just attract the charge. And this is even more vital for delivery lines because the amps have to push to destination. Majority of these are set for their grids to feed buildings of all kinds including plants. Common house hold is 220watts, house hold things will always use low watts/volts/amps. EVs on the other hand, is a mobile power station as is, with a battery pack you can arch weld with. So the demand will always be higher, and there for you need a increase of delivery in order to add another station to the chain. So maybe the station can do it, but based on the location, existing power delivery to the location, may not be suffect enough to fallow through. This can explain why some areas are the worst to go to, and others not so much. Not so carbon friendly or cost efficient at all in that sense...
My school district is looking to go to electric busses. We’re principally diesel though we’re phasing out diesels in favor of gasoline in our new purchases. We did a grid check and we have enough available power to charge with a limited peak time principally off peak charging time. That’s dandy except we don’t employ second or third shifts in maintenance in order to swop busses during off peak charging. We’d also only be able to have 4 charge stations; we have nearly 100 busses. While electric wouldn’t be 100% of our fleet it seems more of a pain at even 20% than straight diesel. Our new gas busses can only run in city routes as they are seriously underpowered compared to diesel on rural routes. We’re in upstate NY were thus is much more of a political decision than a logical one; we’re also reimbursed by the state for 90% of the cost meaning it’s only actually 10% on us and of that 10% another near 8% is getting picked up by federal grants. This 2% our cost is the biggest problem to this misspending as there really are no down sides for the district except wasted money for all and little to no good gains as the max range is barely enough to run both AM and PM city routes with new batteries and we’re limited in charging during peak demand times meaning we’re actually going to need more electric busses and actually going to have to hire staff just to swop busses in chargers at night.
MGUY Australia…I am so glad I found someone who presents a calm, no nonsense, factual discussion to this EV lunacy.
Wow that flame out was massively intense. Here in Auckland, New Zealand the City Council has recently out a fleet of EV public transport into action at phenomenal cost. They are the same models showing up on YT exploding into gigantic firestorms & truly wrecking the roadway below. It would say it’s only a matter of time until one of these over-heavy due to the batteries ( compared ordinary ICE buses just pulled out of service) start going up it sheets of flames…
The other thing that people don't seem to understand is when there are multiple vehicles charging at one charging station, the overall voltage drops per charger. If there is one car charging, that's fine, but as more and more cars are charging at the same time, the time to charge each vehicle increases exponentially.
The cultists will never grasp this unfortunately.
In the US drivers are limited as to the amount of time they can be behind the wheel; in the trip you referred to, adding 7.5 hours, would be adding another shift to the driver's trip time and that would not be allowed.
The delivery in the is 1200 klms- about 700 miles, Usually takes about 14 hours or so, So another 7 hours for recharging. Since time is money in this industry, who pays the extra 50% timeframe
I have been a class a CDL semi truck driver for 26 years.
I know for a fact that An 80,000 pound semi truck will require 54,000 pounds of batteries to move that weight down the road.
This would immediately make that semi truck Too heavy for even five axles which is the norm in the industry.
With five axles and a seventy five foot bridge length, You are allowed 80,000 pounds.
6 axles, 86,000 lbs.
7 axles, 97,000 lbs.
8 axles 105,500 lbs.
All of these weights are based on up to 75 feet of length, which is referred to as "bridge length".
This, because of weight limits on bridge decks.
Then there is the travel distance issue.
You can only make roughly 300 miles on one single charge.
Then you must park the truck for 24 hrs to recharge.
In my business of intermodal trucking, we park the truck at around 4 pm or 5 pm, then restart within 12 hrs to start another day.
I work in Seattle.
There are thousands of owner operators who park on city streets because you can not park a semi in a urban neighborhood.
There is no way of charging unless you deploy a gas operated generator.
Even the port of seattle does not deploy any EV trucks or heavy equipment to move containers.
It's a all DEF engines right now.
They are a maintenance nightmare.
The emission system destroys diesel engines.
Engines that used to be able to go one million miles are now requiring inframe rebuilds at 100,000 miles.
The truck that I drive.
Now needs a filter replacement after just three months.
Those filters are $3500 each.
When the DEF emission system wants to do a regeneration, it will use the Turbo to heat the filter up to 1100°F.
After it is done with the regeneration, it will blow all of that soot into the air.
That means that all of the soot that it was supposed to filter gets blown into the air anyway.
If you want to replace the DEF emission system, the cost is $18000.
Eventually the filter system where's the engine out come completely.
The cost of a new Cummins diesel engine is roughly $40000.
The cost of a new semi truck complete with a DEF 2007 California emission standard engine is about $250,000 USD.
This is driving up the cost of sdipping massively.
You eventually paid for it when you walk into a retail establishment.
Most of the owner-operator truck drivers that I know on the Seattle. Intermodal waterfront industry have deleted that emission system so that they are not crippled with massive maintenance costs.
The EPA claims that they inspect these trucks.
In all my years of trucking, I have never seen the EPA on the Seattle. Or tacoma waterfront.
This is all yet another scam perpetrated by government.
The cost is passed on to all of us who pay taxes.
The vastly increased size of recharging stations compared to fuel stations is only part of the problem. In the UK fuel stations have a fairly small acreage and can be found in numerous roadside locations. Sites ten times bigger will be harder to find ( or we have 10x the number!). On top of this is the cost of additional cabling, transformers, power lines and generating capacity. Currently this is all paid for out of general taxation and represents a subsidy to EV users (paid for by many people who cannot afford an EV). If the true cost of this extra infrastructure is paid for by the end user, I don't think EV's will be any cheaper to run than IC engines. Also the fuel station network in the UK is a commercial business. They make their profit from fuel sales and other goods. A significant proportion of the fuel cost is tax and duties that go to the Government coffers. EV charging stations do not produce the same revenue (which is substantial). Once the true economic costs of EV's is calculated, I don't think they will be found to be viable.
I recently stopped at a Pilot Travel Center, the largest chain of truck stops in North America. They had recently converted four parking spaces to EV charging stations on the passenger car side. So much for ‘convenience ‘. I asked the manager if they had converted any spaces on the truck side. He said no and that he wasn’t aware of any plans to do so.
I have seen videos of cars lining up to access chargers and I chuckle. It won’t ever work for passenger cars and they aren’t even trying for the trucks. But let the charade continue.
That is why Janus Electric's model of swappable battery packs is such a good idea for the trucking industry. Batteries can be swapped out in 4 minutes, and the truckie is back on the road, which is quicker than filling up with diesel, which usually takes around 20 minutes. Batteries can be recharging at swapping stations from excess renewable solar during the day, meaning cost of power is significantly reduced. The only issue, again, as with all of these things, is actually getting the infrastructure up and running.
I like your short video. Compact and straight to the point.
In order to replace diesel trucks in the U.S. We would need to increase electricity production by roughly 50%. That represents perfect operation environments for the electric semis, no freezing temperatures, no hills and definitely no mountains. To operate coast to coast year round the Electricity required would be twice what is currently used in the country. (This is based off Average Semi miles per year, and the projected milage per Kwh for the tesla SEMI.)
When you consider the cost of infrastructure for new charging stations, power lines, new service stations (because the diesel model stations WILL NOT WORK for truck charging), all the electric relay stations, and required upgrades to the existing grid, you find that the minimum cost will be over 70 trillion dollars U.S. which includes the cost of new COAL power plants which are the cheapest.
I did a report on this about a year ago for a college econ class. I spent about a month running numbers, and speaking with people in the various markets involved. My conclusion was that it would take roughly 35-40 years to fully convert, if we put everything into it, and did it properly. Rural mountainous regoins would be one of the largest money sinks the world has ever seen.
I don't have a great understanding of Australias topography, and road systems, but I would say that the costs would be similar in type, if not amount.
Oh the professor in question was pissed. He's a lefty nut job, who wanted a paper on why we need to switch to all electric asap. Every one else in the class turned in a paper about how we need to save the environment boohoo.
My paper was focused on how it could be done, and the time, and expenses required to do it. My paper was the only one that got a failing grade.
Indeed a motorway service stop with 250 parking spaces and each of them has to be a supercharger point. Just imagine people pulling up for lunch and drawing 250 x 350kw ~ 90MW and the local aluminium smelting works or glass factor or chemical works or hospital is blacked out.
Yes Power Generating plants have much greater capacity but it is being used already by shops, factories and homes.
UK Pembroke = Gas Powered (the biggest in UK) 2,200MW and Drax was about 4,200MW, but there are hundreds of motorway service stations and 8,365 filling stations across the UK - that's stations not fuel pumps!
Something else to consider. Here in the U.S., the Tesla Semi consumes 1.7 kilowatts per mile. That mean every 1000 miles it consumes close the same amount of energy to power an average sized single family home for a month. Also, PepsiCo found it can only do 100 miles under heavy load. Even biased Wikipedia has those numbers.