ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
Simple Easy Trick For Joining Copper And Aluminium
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2020
- If you want to have a look at those special videos become a member and join by clicking this link / @thinkingandtinkering - and remember that you can buy my books, our conductive inks, and kits and materials for your own experiments at secure.workingink.co.uk/worki...
You can be having a "worst day" of failures with everything going wrong, but then open a video from Rob absolutely ecstatic about a brazing rod, and suddenly the world is full of endless possibilities again. Even if you don't need to join 2 metals. 😊 As they say, success is 90% attitude - thanks for sharing some of your endless surplus!!
lol - cheers
Hey Robert, how about putting the exact rod description and where you got them in the description box. A lot of people are trying to replicate this and failing. The rod details would be welcome at this point. Thanks.
I've done some aluminium brazing never thought of using it with copper and Ali. Thank so much for sharing this great post.
Wondering if it will take to Iron ?
Glad it was helpful!
me too lol
Most people think aluminium will not solder, but it solders extremely well. The problem is that aluminium forms a thin layer of aluminium oxide instantaneously (or close enough for our purposes) when exposed to air, and aluminium oxide will not solder. You can use special fluxes and rods etc. but what if you don't have any?
If you are looking for an electrical connection only, say an earth connection to an aluminium chassis or joining aluminium and copper wire, you do not need anything except rosin core solder. You can do a submerged joint.
Simply tin the copper as normal, then sand off any hard aluminium oxide deposits (as in the video above). Use a normal soldering iron with a sharp-edged bit, in my case a hard copper tip filed to an oblique end (elliptical), you must keep the leading edge sharp. Create a blob of solder that covers the aluminium, then run the sharp edge of the soldering iron down the aluminium. This will scape off any newly formed aluminium oxide, the solder will keep the air out so no oxidization, the aluminium underneath will instantly tin, you can't get it off with anything less than sanding or grinding. Join the two together with a normal solder joint.
If you are attaching an earth to an aluminium chassis, you may need to create a thermal break to reduce the heat loss (aluminium is a very good thermal conductor). If joining two wires, twist them together, you will only be electrically connecting them in a relatively small area, but this is usually sufficient. High current joints will require more work!
I have used it to join small sections of aluminium using a gas torch and small brush, it works but is a bit of a pain. If you do this, clean away as much of the solder as possible after tinning as it will be contaminated with the aluminium debris. Remember, for all of these joints, two different metals, so electrolysis and corrosion can be problems as it is for aluminium alloys with copper content. Add an electrical potential and the sky is the limit for mysteriously disappearing wire.
I learnt this method many years ago (50 or so) when I joined aluminium to copper telephone cables (cheapskates thought they could save money substituting 0.51mm aluminium for 0.40mm copper, but they paid dearly for it in the end), after a few tens of thousands of joints, you get the hang of it.
🤔
Would like to see you making this joint. Could you post a video?
Super neat joint in seconds!:) that's the first time I've ever heard myself mentioned!
me too and for me and I would think quite a few others this is super handy to know - nice one mate
Thanks for sharing such practical advice. I wonder what other tricks you have up your sleeve?
so your the guy responsible for this video... Thank you for the tip it's awesome!! : D
P.S. like what Death Valley said, have you any more tip's & trick's??
What an easy solution to a real pain of a problem, thanks for that, you've made my day!
Thank you for sharing. I too needed to know that this could be done so easily. I love your enthusiasm Rob! Another great video!
lol - cheers mate and no worries
Wow, I considered this “possibility a while ago when I bought some of the brazing rods for aluminium work but it never got tested. Now thanks to You Rob and James - this is a game changer, as a amateur radio operator/ antenna builder - this opens up a whole new realm for metal joining- obviously I’m looking at mainly the electrical bonding as well as mechanical(better than nuts n bolts).
A lot of your projects are of real interest to the amateur community, from capacitors to wind generators for portable radio work and we do like to build our own. Job Done very very well done. Barnie M7PBX.👍🏼
cheers mate thanks for taking the time to post
Like you said that opens up so many possibilities! Great idea!
I absolutely love your enthusiasm its contagious 👌🏼👍🏼
thank you mate
Good job all! extra glad a bunch of these are laying around.
awesome
very cool, and thank you Rob & James for telling him...
I love your enthusiasm and thank you for sharing the content its very educational
You sure make this look easy!
Great Info! Thanks!!
Brilliant, really useful find. Thanks for sharing. Good demo to see how its done.
That really is F-ing awesome, thanks! I'll have to have a try too now! 😊
lol - agreed mate it is awesome - I have such use for this
i like how you used F-ing instead of the full proper word.. : ) much more nicer to see, i'll have to borrow it off ya!!! ; )
This is a game changer! Thank you Sir!
I stumbled upon your videos not very long ago, and you are one of my new favorite places to learn interesting stuff. Chemical engineer (no longer in industry) here and trying to get into the DIY lifestyle. Hello from Maine, USA, and keep up the great work!
Awesome, thank you mate - and all the best to you too
We ChE's are interested in everything from birth. This is a great channel for us!
Thanks Rob! Thanks James! Great find
cheers mate
Choked on my coffee, that laugh 😂. ! . That is wild mate wow, ..
I have some of that rod, it is a little expensive for what you get, I got it for joining aluminum to aluminum. Thanks Rob, I learned something useful if I ever need to do that.
Wow, that seems to be some fantastic jointing method
I liked it mate
Just what I needed - thank you :)
Thank you. I have always been dubious about these ali brazing rods but if it's good enough for you it good enough for everyone else.
yeah me too - but I finally decided just to give it a go and see
WHAT? you have got to be kidding me! why that is fabulous! WOW I am glad you showed this to us.. what a darn great thing... I am excited now to get my Rods and start playing around... Woof... what a trick.. old dogs learning new things!!
lol - I am learning something new everyday mate and I am 60!
I used to repair a few refrigerators in my past life . That aluminum to copper joint is found in a lot of frigs and A/C s it was always an area to shun away from.
Thank You very much. Those of us who work with materials never like barriers.
Sand it well wet course steel wool with plumbing flux and pure tin or tin silver solder. Scrub it in till both parts are wet and place copper or brass sleeve over joint and solder. Takes a bit of practice but holds up for the good. The direct Al-Cu friction welds are cringe worthy. Very common fail point in HVAC systems ime. ❤
BRAVO , thanks for the tip about clamping with wood shims i never understood why copper pipe would never be hot enough for clean joints, but i will definitely be given this one a whirl when I'm on my feet again
awesome mate
Thanks mate, that really helps.
I keep seeing these advertised, they looked too good to be true. I'll get some now! Thanks!
go for it mate - I bought a name brand to be sure the idea worked I might try a cheaper version next after I have got used to them a bit
I was just on the phone with my Mom. The moves damaged her refrigerator at a point where the copper tubing joins with aluminum tubing. A few technicians told her that it couldn’t be fix.
While speaking to her I looked at my screen and low and behold Robert was doing a video on the exact same thing.
Thank you Robert.
lol - cheers mate
Thanks for your video. it is really helpful to me .
very useful Thank you!
Thank you, have always wanted to know if this would work. Great video
Any time!
Just great!... Thanks Robert!
cheers mate
Thanks for sharing that tip! Very useful method.
You bet!
Very cool...i never thought it will hold,but Mr Workshop show me the opposite.
THX for the Video!
lol - cheers mate
Good tip, never thought to try aluminum brazing rod on copper, no flux needed even better
I think it is flux cored mate
Respect and gratitude
cheers mate
Nice…thanks!
That’s great to know about. Those rods will solve a major problem for me in a future project.
exactly what I thought mate
Robert, I really like you and your videos. Here are some extra tips: Only use the steel brush for brushing aluminium of the same alloy. If you mix them, you will contaminate the brushed area. Pre heating parts in an oven allows for less heat stress and warping. Allways heat up the metal, not the rode (as a smart guy, you found it out at the end of the video). Check the penetration of the welding, make some test peaces and cut them open. There are quiete some different qualities of welding rodes on the market. And the most important tip: aluminum weldings are working over time :D So what looks good and nice today, can be quite different in 6 months.
thank you mate - those are awesome tips - cheers
Wow .. another good one!
cheers mate
Thanks for sharing the information.
You bet!
Awesome stuff!. Totally agree with that this opens up some fantastic fabrication possibilities!. Been looking for some time to find a better way of joining copper wire/ tabs onto aluminum sheet for a secure and sound electrical connection without having to drill a hole, and this looks to be the total biz!, many thanks :) (y)
I like that suggestion mate - very often drilling, tapping etc is just a pain and all you want is a quick tight joint - I agree this looks like it will work just fine
@@ThinkingandTinkering Cheers Rob!, and much appreciated too :) (y)
I have been bombarded with ads for these rods lately and was sceptical, am about to buy some now! Thanks.
to be honest mate - they are one of those things that if you have a use for them they are good
What is the name of this brazing rods and where can I find it online?
Wow simple as that lol . Thank you so much for sharing. Now to hunt the screwfix catalogue.
lol - go for it mate
Another good video!!
cheers mate
That's pretty slick!
awesome right?
I have got some of the stuff , never tried it good to know .Thanks
you should give it a go mate
Essentially replacing Tin by Aluminium.. that's amazing didn't realize you could do this.
It would be nice to know the electrical conductivity, resistance, etc. between the two after joining them.
that's f*****g awesome !! :) I'll be sure to remember that one. just a side note, depending on the application, I'm pretty sure joining copper and aluminium together can lead to galvanic corrosion.
for sure mate and you have to keep the application in mind - but I am told this kind of joining is very common in AC work
@@ThinkingandTinkering Is that why my refrigerator stays at 17 degrees Celsius?
A word of cation: such joints are susceptible to galvanic corrosion if they get wet, rapidly so with salt water, because basically you have an electrically shorted galvanic cell at the joint. On a related note, I once melted pure zinc ingot and made zinc dendrite by pouring it into tap water, then drained this through a stainless steel strainer and left it wet for a couple of weeks to air dry in an open stainless steel bowl. When I came back to it, I found that the zinc formed loads of zinc oxide because of this galvanic corrosion having occurred due to the zinc having been touching stainless steel. I should have used a glass or plastic bowl.
do you know they are used in HVAC particularly for radiator and heat exchanger repair where - apparently - this is used all the time - I didn't until I checked - so I don't really know but I think the caution might be only slightly necessary
Now you tell me..... I just finished 40 joints joining AL tube to Copper sweat fittings like the HVAC guys do with a special rod that included flux (wicked expensive) at very high temperature (950°F) which was very close to the point that the AL became mush. Lot's of scrap until I learned the correct technique. Will play with your suggestion.
That Is Good Rob But As You Probably Know When You Heat Copper Too Much It 1st Becomes Weak And Then Just Turns Powdery . I Learned This When My Old Primus Paraffin Stove Pump Failed , Not Sure If You Remember Them They Were Brass But The Pump Cylinder Was Copper . Any Road Up I Bought A Primus Omnifuel Stove That Will Basically Burn ANY Flammable Liquid Under Pressure , A Little Bit Hefty On The Wallet But That Little Beauty Really Is A Masterpiece In Engineering
Bless Up Earthling
it can mate but heat joining is fairly standard
@Desmond Bagley Great Comment Buddy Cheers
this is indeed really cool.
for sure
That alumin(i)um rod works well for things like that and it requires less heat than brazing. It's good for repairs on non-ferrous materials and, in a pinch, it'll get you 'home' to make a permanent fix.
Have you ever heard of or tried friction stir welding? Works reasonably well to bond dissimilar metals. Then, we have one of my favorites. Explosive bonding. 😎
I've tried both mate - though I have heard stir welding called spin welding and friction welding
Rob, could you show how to solder an aluminum electric wire to a copper electric bulb socket?
Great stuff although with all that heat and the different coefficients of expansion some care may be needed with some types of construction.
Got yourself thermoelectric generator
2 dissimilar metals
Add a heat gradient
You'll get a current
might not be much but for sure
@Mark Honea if you run electricity through it yes it will create gradient
I wonder if the electrical conductivity is still good. Also wondering if you bonded a copper and aluminum wire and then heated the end up in a flame, if you would get a measurable voltage like a thermocouple.
You can estimate the voltage by the variance in work function of the two metals. Current however is a function of surface area, which in this case would be very small.
I am going to try it for sure
@@subjectmatteramateur16 good answer Shawn!!! : )
Big thumbs up.
cheers mate
thanks....excellent
Most welcome!
Alright thank you sir
Nice to know it so simple.
for sure
That's a good looking joint. I like the fillet it made. Copper pipe and aluminum plate are often the best materials but not until now could we join them. HHO might do a good job. It is hot enough to work well. It seems to "wet" both members and looks like a good solder job might look.
cheers mate - I solder and braze a fair bit but this took me 30 mins or so to get used to
Thanks! 😊👍🏻
You bet!
Robert, do your brazing on a firebrick. They won't catch fire! I'm surprised that worked! I wouldn't have imagined to try that.
The key was applying the heat to the copper since it has a higher melting point.
lol - I was thinking a blanket - but you know mate - sometimes it's all just quick and get it done lol
All Hell I ordered some. LOL Been meaning to have a go at it for some time now.
awesome lol
Great video. Would this joint steel and copper?
I have lipo tabs , I can not get to spot weld, the only luck i have had, was using a nickle strip on both sides, then spot weld it, I don't think this will work on the tiny tabs, but spot welding nickle, I don't think it's a true weld, I think it's burning a hole through the aluminum, and welding the nickle strips together, this aluminum brazing rod, is a game changer for aluminum, I don't really know when I'd need to join aluminum and copper, (I'm guessing brass also) except for maybe a heater core, for a boiler project, putting copper/brass connectors on aluminum tubing of a heat exchanger, this truly some cool stuff, cheers!
electrical joints, radiators, HVAC projects - I can think of quite a few uses tbh
That's brilliant. Never thought of doing that.
me neither - it was all James' fault lol
A well done sir ! from a geothermal Tech from the states. What a nice even clean weld not easy to do. At all. It helps being able to position and reposition the work piece, sometimes you're not able to do that it's difficulty can go up by order of magnitude. any kind of braze or solder its key the workpiece be sanitary. Aswell majority of the time I like to take a pair of side cuts and mark,bend or nip the side of the solder rod from the end up just the distance diameter of the pipe that helps with flowing the correct amount of material to give a factory looking weld. The more is not more better, just uglier. Depending on how many welds and the size of the work piece I've been known to start with oxy-acetylene or map gas to get the work up to temperature and switch over to butane pen usually allows me to do multiple welds in the tight area without some sort of spray thermal block smew. if need be.
nice advice mate - cheers
Is a great Video Robert. I think you are chasing the spider here! lol I am sure I used to use low temp solder ( < 200'c ) in the lab, would that not do for joining ABS/Graphene ???
Hi Robert, where can I purchase the rod you used in this video please?
now thats cool
for sure mate
Hey Rob, any chance of a link as to where I could get those rods please... Noel
Flipping BRILLIANT Sir. Now I have a means to terminate Copper cable Lugs to a Aluminum Bus Bar.
very cool
I wonder how this handles galvanic reaction?
Thoughts about converting Hot water tank into Sterling generator. Constant heat source and constant cold source...maybe a tesla oscilator(piston) instead of trying to convert 2 stroke engine.
Thoughts on making graphene brick size capacitors and using as construction interior brick wall storage.
Thoughts on Eddy Currents and harnessing eddy curentd as magnet travels through a graphene copper wire lined pvc pipe or tube.
Thoughts on
Tritium lined pipe with capcitor and photovoltaic cells and magnet...like those magnetic/battery trains running through copper wire....giving off enough eddy currents to be harnessed or stored..
Thoughts on
Tessa valve and compressing air to turn a converted two stroke and flywheel to run the engine
I bought some of these soldering sticks, and they were plastered with warnings about toxic fumes. How cautious do I need to be?
Can i use this method om chiller AC cooled
Usually it is a question of an active enough flux to do that.
I seem to recall those rods are zinc based (?) perhsps that is why it works with those two metals.
interesting - cheers mate
Funny that the action of the zinc chloride flux on the aluminum oxide seems to be the same reaction as in sorrel cement
@@mikeguitar9769 i bow to your greater knowledge of such matters, M'lud
Thanks, although honestly i just googled it. Also, I figure the brazing rod might be about90% zinc and 10% aluminum because this eutectic melts near 380C. But i imagine 100% zinc could work too, melting at 420C. Seems like a cool prepper/hack to know one could maybe salvage such materials from a dry-cell battery or a coin if needed. The battery case is zinc, and the electrolyte is zinc chloride or ammonium chloride, both of which are reportedly used as fluxes for this. There had to be a battery in here somewhere!
@@mikeguitar9769 there's a battery in everything these days.😢
What type of rod did you use?
how long will the joint last given galvanic corrosion?
That’s almost miraculous.
MAXIMUS AWESOMINUS!!!
lol - for sure
Here in the States there are many brands of those rods, some are nothing but garbage, so be wary. Usually if it's too cheap there is a reason.
People should keep in mind that aluminum has a much lower melting point then copper aluminum is only around 1200 degrees but starts moving at a little over 900 copper on the other hand is almost 2000 degrees and starts moving around17-1800 degrees this is all fahrenhiet . point being concentrate the heat on the copper and let it heat up the aluminum to keep from melting through the aluminum.
What about electrolysis between copper and aluminum?
Joining copper to aluminium creates a high potential for galvanic interaction - corrosion via electron theft.
Interesting and useful video Rob.
Question, ive read onling many times that copper and aluminium corrode each other and thus its not recommended to do so.
Is this really true or is it the case that if you do x its fine but if you do y it corrodes badly?
As always thanks in advance
Chris
Yeah it corods oxidized badly specially we can see on power cables joining between Aluminum and copper.
Can anybody advise on these type of Ally Braising rods and where in the uk can i get a good deal. TIA
That was cool, now solder a Aluminum tube... to copper plate... trickier.
Do you think this could hold water
If you have a Trane split HVAC system this is used in the outside unit.
I didn't know that mate - thanks for that - with stuff like this you do worry about longevity, corrosion etc - nice to know it is used like that as it means the joint has a good provenance - cheers
I need to stick a copper sheet at the bottom of an aluminium pan for cooking. This aluminium stick would do the trick, but will it be heat resistant? A bit sceptical about that!
Great for permanent Seebeck effect
junctions :)
Indeed!
Based on the past videos and projects so far, I couldn't resist the question: You have two dissimilar metals, now how about seeing if it can be some kind of peltier battery? What's the risk? Surely Robert you have to show us if it will work. By the way, I found the bellows thing absolutely mesmerising!
I like that mate - I will give it a go for sure - and me too on the bellows thing lol
I also recently discovered those rods, I am quite curious as to what alloy they are made from... Edit, I actually gone and read the documentation with my rods, and they actually mention that you can join aluminium and copper to my surprise I guess rtfm...
lol - that's very funny mate - I never read the instructions and it goes to show how many of us don't - cheers - oh and I suspect it is a zinc base