Thank you for highlighting our bolt-on front widening kits! We agree with the video 100% and are here to provide the best alternative to long travel a arms.
After a 30 year abscence from the ATV world and a strong desire to return to my sport quad roots, this and the other videos you've done on this subject have become excellent resource for my future plans. Thank you and keep up the great work!!!
Outstanding video! Very clear and informative. I had an 09 Raptor with an extended rear axle and didnt realize the benefit until getting a new 2020. Ive been considering wheel spacers but this video finally confirmed and explained the drawbacks. Thanks.
Glad we could help. Makes us feel a lot better about the lower view count for this video but we figured it would be good information. Thanks for watching!
On Our Honda 400EX, and Honda 400X, we use extended A-Arms in the Front. On the Rear, One has A Wider Axle, and the other one has offset hubs. So Far the one with the Stock Axle, with the offset Hubs, the Axle has not shown any bending of the Axle, Even after Many Jumps! On My 1991 Honda 250X, I only went one inch more offset on the front wheels, this gives it greater cornering, without being to wide, and hitting a lot of stuff out on the trails, I know this, because I had wider ones on it before, and collected lots of Tree's.
Great video guys! I know most people would think widening a quad would be great but years ago I had a 250 R that was professionally widened and I didn’t care for it. I felt it made the quad heavier and less maneuverable. I also seemed to hit every bump rock or root on the trail. Of course, this was before side-by-side’s widened everything but I still didn’t care for it.
Not to mention effects on Ackerman.... Remember, the more height and/or width you add, if the a-arm geometry isn't altered to suit, the different length a-arms will instill a greater degree of camber change throughout thier range of motion as well as the castor effects built into the setup. And if these modifications haven't correctly incorporated steering stem mods the range of motion can also instill a degree of toe in/out changes. Ie; at full compression a greater than ideal toe in angle can be instilled by the upwards and inwards travel of the front hibs bringing them closer to the steering stem and causing the fixed length steering arms to both push the mounting point on the rear side of the hub outwards. Therefore if a large degree of variation from standard has been incorporated with the use of different a-arms, the position of the steering stem may come into consideration also, as with the mounting position of the upper arms and/or the arm fixed to the hub connecting the steering arms to it.
Great info.. Although imo nothing looks better than a wide low quad, I try to base the width off height and stability.. I definitely like the wider rear on 3 wheelers.. 👍👍👍 #makeatcsgreatagain #savesportquads
After riding 3 wheels all my life I bought a 700 Raptor to try out in the Dunes.My first thought was can I get more steering angle out of it as it often spins out & threatens to roll over.On full steering lock the inside wheel is OK but the outside one is pathetic with its angle so it just acts like a brake .Riding side on to sand dunes it just spins out & you have to climb the dune.On one spin out I jumped off to stop the Raptor rolling over & over me .I broke a Rib yet never on a trike would this happen.I rolled by 350X before but I just rolled with it but you cant do that on Quads or you get eaten up & spat out.
Great content as always. What do you guys think of the lonestar axcalibur? I was also thinking of +2 a-arms with stock shocks. But after this video, would you recommend i bit the bullet and find shocks too?
Thank you! Lone Star makes good axles. They have a good warranty. We found some of the older versions we used to be a little soft but have not tested their latest axles. We have been older ones but never had one break. That is most important. We would definitely recommend doing shocks with wider a-arms with very few exceptions. If you don't mind our asking, what machine are you planning on a whitening out?
@@kobek5272 I got the lonestar axcalibur and it is awesome. Solid stuff. I am now considering the DC Pro MX A-Arms. Really uncertain of my suspension decision though.
We wouldn't go over +2" wheel spacers on the front end due to the increase in steering effort and bump feedback. Frankly, you might try adding wheel spacers to the rear and leave the front end stock. This will give you an increase in stability without all of the negative drawbacks of offsetting the front wheels. If you have any follow up questions don't hesitate to ask.
I would look at Houser arms. They have standard travel arms that will work with your stock shocks once they are revalved. Is another 12 consider is JD performance. Both are american manufacturers with manufacturing in the united states. Please let us know if you have any follow up questions.
Need help with a dvx 400 finding parts is ridiculous... what's your thoughts should I find a better brand to build or or just keep building this thing on the off chance I find some good parts
That machine is the same as a Suzuki Z400 or a Kawasaki KFX400. What parts are you finding it difficult to find? There should still be a good amount of aftermarket parts available for that machine. Do you have one that has reservoir equipped front shocks?
@ATVonDemand yes I think they are stock? Theres no stickers on the shocks. I didn't know how deep that match went parts wise like suspension engine what all matches or can I just look for z400 parts I'm not doing well searching for various things if I look for a dvx
@@donaldliverance2597 We are not 100% sure. That would be a good question for maier manufacturing. They make plastic for most popular sport ATV's.The frames should be basically the same although we are not sure if they changed any mounting points for the plastic.
DONT add spacers to wheel hubs. The effects on scrub radius and how these effects can be negated are far more complicated than the benefits they bring and each effort to negate these draw backs has a direct effect on all the other factors and you'll quickly become lost in the setting changes. If your already suffering from difficult turning rhe last thing you want to do is increase scrub radius.... Edit: dont add them to front hubs. Rears are fine when using a solid axle.
Funny thing 90% of people don't have the skill to use half of the potential of the stock on modern sport ATVs there just to heavy for the factory springs and valving. I ride 2008 DS 450 took a couple trys too set it up, I weight 213 the weight limit for my atv is 230. Learn to set your suspension for your weight and riding style before wasting money on widening.
While we totally agree that people will get more out of their a t v by learning to set up their stock suspension before spending money, We live in a world where most of the trails are now way over sixty inches wide with deep ruts from side by sides. Widening your ATV is about way more than suspension performance It's about stability and handling. Yes, Properly setting up your suspension will improve stability, But not as much as having a wider machine with properly set up suspension. If we're wrong then everyone at the motocross nationals, Best in the desert series, Worcs, NEEDT flat track series And just about every form of ATV racing other than cross-country Wouldn't be doing it. You don't have to take our word for it just look at racing.
@@ATVonDemand l just see way too many people willing to throw money at a machine and expect it to make them a better rider, it doesn't. And to the last part of your comment those are the 10% that can push the machine past its factory limits, most people will never come close to that level of riding.
I feel like everything in this video prior to 7:30 is terrible advice that shouldn't be followed by anyone. You did mention the downsides of things like spacers and widening kits but I really think it should be stressed that these upgrades aren't really upgrades, more of sidegrades. You'll hardly get a "better" ride, just a "different" one. The only proper way to widen an ATV is with A-arms, long travel shocks, and an axle. If you can't afford those things, you can't afford to widen your ATV and are probably better off with stock until you can save up. The idea of throwing spacers on my YFZ literally makes me shudder.
You feel that everything before7:30 Is terrible advice? I don't think we advised anyone to do anything specifically. We listed the pros and cons of each method. Lots of people are going to pursue those other methods and we feel it's important to educate viewers by explaining the pros and the cons, which we did. We explained the drawbacks in detai. We are trying to educate consumers not preach to them. That being said. It is not necessary to buy long travel shocks if you're stock. Shocks are rebuildable and you don't purchase long travel a arms. Our raptor project has standard travel arms with revout stock shocks. This setup is fine for most people.
@@ATVonDemand "You feel that everything before7:30 Is terrible advice?" Yes that is what I said. I think the cons overwhelmingly outweigh the pros. Spacers and widening kids shouldn't even be ideas that are planted in peoples' minds. No one should be thinking, "Huh, I don't exactly have enough money to spend on aftermarket A-arms, so spacers will be good enough! At least they're cheap!" They're going to be setting themselves up to waste their money for a mediocre experience. Recommending that to someone is not setting them up for success.
@@sbz666_ We did not advise anyone to do anything. We listed the pros and cons of these different mods. Wheels and whitening kits are marketed every day on the internet. They never tell you the negatives of using them. We did. Mission accomplished. We tend to agree with everything you're saying except for the part that you are saying we are advising people to buy any of these setups. You believe we should not mention them that is your opinion. We'd rather make sure people know what they're getting themselves into if they've already discovered them and are looking for opinion on the benefits and drawbacks. Again we tend to agree with you.
@@ATVonDemand Okay man this wasn't meant to be some big argument. I expressed my opinion via the comments and viewers can either decide to engage with my point of contention or ignore it.
@@sbz666_ I've seen spacers and widening kits years before this video. I'm sure I'm not the only one. this video simply explains the pros and cons. How can someone not understand this...
Thank you for highlighting our bolt-on front widening kits! We agree with the video 100% and are here to provide the best alternative to long travel a arms.
Respect🤙
Long live ATVonDemand.
❤️
Thank you! We wish the same for you. 🤙
After a 30 year abscence from the ATV world and a strong desire to return to my sport quad roots, this and the other videos you've done on this subject have become excellent resource for my future plans. Thank you and keep up the great work!!!
We are very happy to hear that you find our videos of benefit. There will be more.
Great video! This should get everyone pumped up to get their ATV projects started for spring!! 👊💥🎉
We certainly hope so. We have a few we are pumped on getting wrapped up. Can't wait to see what you guys have coming down the pipeline.
Just saying...... this was a reeeeaaaaalllllly good video. Very informative.
@@RichardR876 Hope it helped you out.
Outstanding video! Very clear and informative. I had an 09 Raptor with an extended rear axle and didnt realize the benefit until getting a new 2020. Ive been considering wheel spacers but this video finally confirmed and explained the drawbacks. Thanks.
Glad we could help. Makes us feel a lot better about the lower view count for this video but we figured it would be good information. Thanks for watching!
On Our Honda 400EX, and Honda 400X, we use extended A-Arms in the Front.
On the Rear, One has A Wider Axle, and the other one has offset hubs.
So Far the one with the Stock Axle, with the offset Hubs, the Axle has not shown any bending of the Axle, Even after Many Jumps!
On My 1991 Honda 250X, I only went one inch more offset on the front wheels, this gives it greater cornering, without being to wide, and hitting a lot of stuff out on the trails, I know this, because I had wider ones on it before, and collected lots of Tree's.
Thanks for sharing your setups and experience. 👍
Great video guys! I know most people would think widening a quad would be great but years ago I had a 250 R that was professionally widened and I didn’t care for it. I felt it made the quad heavier and less maneuverable. I also seemed to hit every bump rock or root on the trail. Of course, this was before side-by-side’s widened everything but I still didn’t care for it.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the comment. All depends on your needs and the type of riding you do.
@@ATVonDemand Agreed! 👍
Depends your application. 48 to 50 was always the best for me. Wheel spacers are always terrible and harder in components up front.
With few exceptions a-arms and shocks are almost always the way to go.
@@ATVonDemand really even if you’re on a budget standard travel arms are decently cheap. Long travel is when you get in the money
I love this channel. Cheers from Lima Peru 🇵🇪
We're glad you enjoy it.
Not to mention effects on Ackerman....
Remember, the more height and/or width you add, if the a-arm geometry isn't altered to suit, the different length a-arms will instill a greater degree of camber change throughout thier range of motion as well as the castor effects built into the setup. And if these modifications haven't correctly incorporated steering stem mods the range of motion can also instill a degree of toe in/out changes. Ie; at full compression a greater than ideal toe in angle can be instilled by the upwards and inwards travel of the front hibs bringing them closer to the steering stem and causing the fixed length steering arms to both push the mounting point on the rear side of the hub outwards. Therefore if a large degree of variation from standard has been incorporated with the use of different a-arms, the position of the steering stem may come into consideration also, as with the mounting position of the upper arms and/or the arm fixed to the hub connecting the steering arms to it.
Great info.. Although imo nothing looks better than a wide low quad, I try to base the width off height and stability.. I definitely like the wider rear on 3 wheelers.. 👍👍👍
#makeatcsgreatagain
#savesportquads
Thanks doc. I know a lot of us already know most of this but figured it was worth doing for newer enthusiasts.
@@ATVonDemand Enjoyed it.. 👍👍👍
Great video !
Sorry we missed your comment. Glad you enjoyed it!
@@ATVonDemand it's alright 👍
The easiest way to widen a raptor is to change the rear hubs to yfz hubs for around fifty dollars it will add two inches of width to the rear end.
Good tip.
Recommendations for a 2000 warrior 350 , hard trail riding with decent jumps ?
What is your budget? Or does that matter?
@@ATVonDemand 300 to start the front end .
After riding 3 wheels all my life I bought a 700 Raptor to try out in the Dunes.My first thought was can I get more steering angle out of it as it often spins out & threatens to roll over.On full steering lock the inside wheel is OK but the outside one is pathetic with its angle so it just acts like a brake .Riding side on to sand dunes it just spins out & you have to climb the dune.On one spin out I jumped off to stop the Raptor rolling over & over me .I broke a Rib yet never on a trike would this happen.I rolled by 350X before but I just rolled with it but you cant do that on Quads or you get eaten up & spat out.
I’m looking for A arms and new shocks for my 2003 Suzuki Ltz400 ! Just picked it up and looking to widen it +2
@@manojimenez7169 What's your budget and how much do you care about quality? A-Arms, axle and shocks?
@@ATVonDemand I’m looking to spend 1,000-1,500 all together A-arms and shocks not axles unless you recommend that as well.
Great content as always. What do you guys think of the lonestar axcalibur? I was also thinking of +2 a-arms with stock shocks. But after this video, would you recommend i bit the bullet and find shocks too?
Thank you! Lone Star makes good axles. They have a good warranty. We found some of the older versions we used to be a little soft but have not tested their latest axles. We have been older ones but never had one break. That is most important.
We would definitely recommend doing shocks with wider a-arms with very few exceptions. If you don't mind our asking, what machine are you planning on a whitening out?
@@ATVonDemand it is a Raptor 700 with the big 3. Mostly rough trail rides.
Did you decide on the axle ? I’m currently looking into it. Ride a Raptor 700 as well
@@kobek5272 I got the lonestar axcalibur and it is awesome. Solid stuff. I am now considering the DC Pro MX A-Arms. Really uncertain of my suspension decision though.
@@RichardR876 For suspension, Elka, Fox, and PEP are all great choices.
You think it’s fine to run 2 inch spacers on a 313 pound Yamaha raptor 250 for the front, and maybe even 3 inch?
We wouldn't go over +2" wheel spacers on the front end due to the increase in steering effort and bump feedback. Frankly, you might try adding wheel spacers to the rear and leave the front end stock. This will give you an increase in stability without all of the negative drawbacks of offsetting the front wheels. If you have any follow up questions don't hesitate to ask.
Is the alba racing arm’s considered dirt cheap. I don’t want to get longer shocks but I will get my stocks revalved. I have a raptor 700r. TIA
I would look at Houser arms. They have standard travel arms that will work with your stock shocks once they are revalved. Is another 12 consider is JD performance. Both are american manufacturers with manufacturing in the united states. Please let us know if you have any follow up questions.
Thank you! One last question? If I do get a long travel set and yfz450r shocks do I still need to get the shocks re valved?
Need help with a dvx 400 finding parts is ridiculous... what's your thoughts should I find a better brand to build or or just keep building this thing on the off chance I find some good parts
Well it’s pretty much a z400 besides the plastics.
That machine is the same as a Suzuki Z400 or a Kawasaki KFX400. What parts are you finding it difficult to find? There should still be a good amount of aftermarket parts available for that machine. Do you have one that has reservoir equipped front shocks?
@ATVonDemand yes I think they are stock? Theres no stickers on the shocks. I didn't know how deep that match went parts wise like suspension engine what all matches or can I just look for z400 parts I'm not doing well searching for various things if I look for a dvx
Is it possible to swap the plastics out for another brand the only options iv found for the dvx are stupid expensive
@@donaldliverance2597 We are not 100% sure. That would be a good question for maier manufacturing. They make plastic for most popular sport ATV's.The frames should be basically the same although we are not sure if they changed any mounting points for the plastic.
DONT add spacers to wheel hubs. The effects on scrub radius and how these effects can be negated are far more complicated than the benefits they bring and each effort to negate these draw backs has a direct effect on all the other factors and you'll quickly become lost in the setting changes. If your already suffering from difficult turning rhe last thing you want to do is increase scrub radius....
Edit: dont add them to front hubs. Rears are fine when using a solid axle.
Feel like I’ve been listening to your voice for 15 years and have no idea what you look like 😂
That is very possible. Glad to hear you've been listening for 15 years. Must be doing something right.
Funny thing 90% of people don't have the skill to use half of the potential of the stock on modern sport ATVs there just to heavy for the factory springs and valving. I ride 2008 DS 450 took a couple trys too set it up, I weight 213 the weight limit for my atv is 230. Learn to set your suspension for your weight and riding style before wasting money on widening.
While we totally agree that people will get more out of their a t v by learning to set up their stock suspension before spending money, We live in a world where most of the trails are now way over sixty inches wide with deep ruts from side by sides. Widening your ATV is about way more than suspension performance It's about stability and handling. Yes, Properly setting up your suspension will improve stability, But not as much as having a wider machine with properly set up suspension. If we're wrong then everyone at the motocross nationals, Best in the desert series, Worcs, NEEDT flat track series And just about every form of ATV racing other than cross-country Wouldn't be doing it. You don't have to take our word for it just look at racing.
@@ATVonDemand l just see way too many people willing to throw money at a machine and expect it to make them a better rider, it doesn't. And to the last part of your comment those are the 10% that can push the machine past its factory limits, most people will never come close to that level of riding.
I feel like everything in this video prior to 7:30 is terrible advice that shouldn't be followed by anyone. You did mention the downsides of things like spacers and widening kits but I really think it should be stressed that these upgrades aren't really upgrades, more of sidegrades. You'll hardly get a "better" ride, just a "different" one. The only proper way to widen an ATV is with A-arms, long travel shocks, and an axle. If you can't afford those things, you can't afford to widen your ATV and are probably better off with stock until you can save up. The idea of throwing spacers on my YFZ literally makes me shudder.
You feel that everything before7:30 Is terrible advice? I don't think we advised anyone to do anything specifically. We listed the pros and cons of each method. Lots of people are going to pursue those other methods and we feel it's important to educate viewers by explaining the pros and the cons, which we did. We explained the drawbacks in detai. We are trying to educate consumers not preach to them. That being said. It is not necessary to buy long travel shocks if you're stock. Shocks are rebuildable and you don't purchase long travel a arms. Our raptor project has standard travel arms with revout stock shocks. This setup is fine for most people.
@@ATVonDemand "You feel that everything before7:30 Is terrible advice?" Yes that is what I said. I think the cons overwhelmingly outweigh the pros. Spacers and widening kids shouldn't even be ideas that are planted in peoples' minds. No one should be thinking, "Huh, I don't exactly have enough money to spend on aftermarket A-arms, so spacers will be good enough! At least they're cheap!" They're going to be setting themselves up to waste their money for a mediocre experience. Recommending that to someone is not setting them up for success.
@@sbz666_ We did not advise anyone to do anything. We listed the pros and cons of these different mods. Wheels and whitening kits are marketed every day on the internet. They never tell you the negatives of using them. We did. Mission accomplished. We tend to agree with everything you're saying except for the part that you are saying we are advising people to buy any of these setups. You believe we should not mention them that is your opinion. We'd rather make sure people know what they're getting themselves into if they've already discovered them and are looking for opinion on the benefits and drawbacks. Again we tend to agree with you.
@@ATVonDemand Okay man this wasn't meant to be some big argument. I expressed my opinion via the comments and viewers can either decide to engage with my point of contention or ignore it.
@@sbz666_ I've seen spacers and widening kits years before this video. I'm sure I'm not the only one. this video simply explains the pros and cons. How can someone not understand this...