FACE OF ANNE OF CLEVES | Story behind the painting | Hans Holbein the younger. Six wives documentary
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Did Hans Holbein the Younger TRICK HENRY VIII by making Anne of Cleves look more beautiful than she really was? That is the charge often levelled at the famed Tudor painter in light of the fact that Henry sent for Anne to become his fourth wife after viewing Holbein’s efforts, only to discover upon meeting the lady that he disliked her so much that he dumped her six months later and had the union annulled, causing a major Tudor scandal. Is it fair to blame Holbein for this marital disaster though and what do we know about how, when and why the portrait was created? In this six wives documentary from History Calling, I share the story behind the painting of this portrait of a Tudor Queen and look at how great of an impact it had on the King’s decision to marry Anne. We’ll also look at what happened to the painting after the marriage of Henry VIII and Anne of Cleves broke down and how this famous work of art ended up in the Louvre in Paris. We’ll consider too how likely it is that this is a true representation of the face of Anne of Cleves and at whether Henry was angry at Holbein for the painting, or if he blamed his dislike of Anne on factors other than her looks. It is rare for a painting to have such a prominent place in the history of Tudor England, but this image has achieved just that and it changed the course of the life of Anne of Cleves forever.
The podcast episode and documentary I discussed in this video were ‘Anne of Cleves’ (part of the Not Just the Tudors podcast series by Suzannah Lipscomb) and ‘Becoming Anne Boleyn’, also hosted by Suzannah Lipscomb. #ad
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Do you think the portrait and the written evidence suggest Anne was good looking? Let me know below.
If the portrait of Anne that Holbein painted was accurate, I think she was a very pretty lady. More so than his other wives 😐.
I think she was good looking too (though apparently so was Catherine of Aragon in her day, so we mustn't forget her). The others weren't renowned for their looks though.
Personally, I think Henry had his own problems and was blaming everyone else.
Anne looks very pretty to me. I think Henry's dislike of her stems from their disastrous first meeting
@@katyp.2495
I think her failure was due to his shortcomings
Of course
Me too but Henry didnt think so. 😔 she wasnt ugly at all.
BEST COMMENT 🥇
yes, Henry was quick to mention so called negative physical traits in her, but didn't give one thought to what his bride might feel about his girth, and ulcered leg, which is said to have been smelly.
I have always believed that the contrast between expectations and reality was much bigger for Anne when she saw the courtly love king for what he was, than for Henry when he compared her to a portrait.
Yes! I think he liked her fine until she bruised his ego in their first meeting. No one had ever told him he was unattractive before. He’d been the most desirable prince in Europe his whole life. It was only when he saw the disgust in Anne’s eyes that he realized how old and fat and gross he’d become and how much everyone else had been lying to him. He blamed her for showing him this. She unmanned him in that moment, and of course he couldn’t sleep with her after that.
I think her portrait is quit beautiful and agree that it wasn’t her looks that brought about the end of the marriage. It was Henry’s inaccurate expectations of her character. But she was clearly intelligent and diplomatic (or just overall innocent) enough to navigate that eggshell of a court. If anything, she seems to have been the very best of all of Henry’s wives in both physical beauty and beauty of the soul.
Yes, I certainly think she had the best outcome. Like you, I think she was quite intelligent though she hadn't had the benefit of the kind of education you see with Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn or Catherine Parr.
I think Anne Boleyn and Catalina were very pretty, but I don't know much about Anne of Cleves, I live near around Cleves but never really had interest in her as much as the dozens of books and films I see about the first two wives.
No….I believe Henry’s dislike was due to observers’ remarks that, “She carried herself with great self-assurance”….It was well known that Henry despised such women, preferring the extremely “docile,” Jane Seymour types….
@@Shineon83 - Not quite. Henry was obsessed with Anne Boleyn, who was far from docile, and he loved it. He moved mountains for a woman who put him in check, lol. However, he did not like those traits once they married. Men...🤔🤦🏽♀️
I think Henry made it pretty clear he wasn't physically attracted to her. I found this interesting b/c Catherine of Aragon is by far the least attractive of Henry's wives and he was with her for a long time only growing dissatisfied with her when no son was born. So my hunch is this was simply an issue of Anne's portrait being the equivalent of IG filters and when he saw he in person he felt duped and just wanted nothing to do with her...
The fact that she totally won in every way afterward tho.....getting the money she didn't have coming into Britain, getting her own private palace, not having to bow down to anyone but the king (who she only had to see once in a while) and having great relationships with what used to be her stepchildren. #girlboss before #girlboss was even a thing haha.
Yes, she did remarkably well out of what could have been a very nasty situation indeed. Good on her :-)
Holbeins portraits are so meticulous I cant imagine it being inaccurate,or that he would risk his neck by attempting to decieve.
I totally agree. The guy's whole reputation was based on accuracy after all (except maybe when he painted Henry - I could imagine him making the King look a little better than the reality).
Not that Henry had room to call anyone ugly. Anne dodged a serious bullet.
I think your assessment of why the marriage failed was pretty accurate. I don't think Holbein would have risked his neck for this. She may have been plain and not to his taste, but she seems to have been a decent human being. I think Henry's rejection of her is more a reflection of his obnoxiousness. Bloated in body as well as ego. Quite frankly, I am dead pleased she survived him, got as much money out of him without too much trouble and enjoyed her life as best she could. She was extremely generous in her will, which rather sums her character up nicely. Anne of Cleeves 10, Henry 8th 0, says it all.
Yes, she did well out of the whole situation and I agree that Holbein wouldn't have been stupid enough to pretty her up, only to disappoint Henry later on.
He told his friend Charles Brandon, (Duke Of Suffolk) that she had evil smells about her, but she was known to have told Cromwell that the sore on his ulcerated leg smelt so vile it was off-putting, so maybe it was Henry that had foul smells about him and not Anne.
Henry the VIII may have thought she was ugly, but I always thought that portrait of Anne made her look so beautiful ❤
I do too. I don't know what his problem was, beyond her just not being his type.
I think Holbein was being rather kind to her when he painted her face.
@@HistoryCalling Henry VIII had no place to talk. By the time this portrait was painted, Henry was a slob with a busted leg 😂 He had no place to call someone as young as Anne ugly 😂😂😂
@@Ohdeedee Maybe. I always been fascinated by Tudor portraits. I wish I could go back in time and get a glimpse of how these women truly looked. Especially Anne Boleyn 🌹
Yes, I think we all wish we knew what Anne looked like.
I believe she was striking. She arrived not speaking English, prolly scared to death by Henry’s ridiculous surprise “welcome”, and replacing the dead mother of the heir that Henry had longed for. I read somewhere that Cromwell was quite insistent that the king must remarry. I think, that if possible, Henry loved Jane Seymour (if only because she gave him a son). It’s so sad that she, of all of them, might have been the best of queens. She certainly proved to be the best of “sisters”. A great video, thank you History Calling.
Thanks Amy. I think she would have been a great Queen consort too, if Henry had given her more of a chance.
I think she was exactly what you said, a pleasant looking young woman who just didn't know that she was supposed to make the aging Henry feel like he was still 18 years old and gorgeous
Katherine Howard did. Unfortunately she wasn’t discreet with Culpepper
I have a theory about Anne's appearance, aside from wearing heavy Germanic clothing: First, that she was tall, unlike the other queens, which may have made her seem too bold since she could have almost looked Henry in the eye. Second, all the other queens had narrow noses and hers was larger, which would have been quite distinctive. Tudor courtiers tended to have disproportionally long and narrow noses. But of course, the main thing is that she didn't pander to Henry's ego - wise girl.
I doubt the nose theory. Jane Seymour seems quite beaky, to me. I think they just didn't click at first and he wasn't accustomed to ladies' indifference at all.
So, she looks very much like my mothers people, Austrian/austrohungarian. The hooded eye, sultry look. Strong chin, fuller bottom lip, and a rounder softer shape of face. A bit of a more prominent nose, and even the shape of eyebrows. Very pale skin that is prone to a rosy natural blush. All my mothers people, from her fathers side, have the same look. Not exactly beautiful, but can be striking and not unpleasant to look at. Smiles light up their faces very much, but they can very definitely have a very sour resting face. The hands look very similar as well. The crazy thing is, the Germanic people are breeders! He stood a better chance of having more kids with her than he could have possibly thought. She didn’t fail, he did
I think she was the luckiest of Henry VIII's wife, in that she dodged a bullet by agreeing to the annulment of the marriage. She ended up a very rich and independent woman thank to the king's generosity for her not fighting him on the annulment. I would say she was a very lucky woman indeed. Oh and on a different subject, if you've seen Fani Willis the, DA from Georgia who's prosecuting tRump, she looks like a striking African American version of Anne of Cleves.
@@laurajames723. I think I have to agree with you on Ms Willis. How very interesting.
I think his pride was hurt when she didn't immediately fawn over him and so he needed to find excuses to get rid of her.
Absolutely. He seems to have been quite fragile in terms of his ego, at least by that point in his life.
Given the fact Henry had begun his decline, I agree with your assessment that it would have been foolish for Holbein, or anyone else for that matter, to exaggerate Anne's appearance. It seems logical to me that Henry didn't like something about her personality (and confidence), not her looks. Given all the known facts, I believe her portrait was mostly accurate and I think she was lovely, if so. And Anne got the last laugh, however, did she not? 🙂This is such a fascinating story - thank you!
Yes, Holbein would have been risking his life to pretty Anne up I think and as I was just saying to another commenter, personality rather than beauty seems to have been the clincher for Henry when it came to wives. Only Catherine of Aragon was ever lauded as a beauty.
❤
A point that I think might also hold some weight is that Anne was very different from Henry’s previous wives in terms of build. She was tall and had a bigger chest. Catherine, Anne, and Jane were all either average or of shorter height for the time, in addition to being very slender. The second Katherine was also reported to be short and slender iirc. Henry definitely seems like he had a type there.
Yes, she just doesn't seem to have been his type (which turned out to be lucky for her).
I guess petite women would make Henry feel even more powerful and larger than life.
I don’t know about the tall aspect being the reason. Catherine Parr was tall too. Henry was also interested in Mary of Guise and Christina of Denmark, who were also tall and beautiful.
This is my theory: Henry was used to English women who were petite. Anne may have had a more Germanic build ie larger bosom, larger thighs and perhaps not so quite a small waist without her dress. In addition she wasn't fluent in english and her customs were different. So I don't think she was ugly, just different from what Henry was used to.
I think she was decently good looking, and I don't think Holbein would have lied to Henry. No-one seemed to think she was ugly once she was the King's sister.
I don't think Holbein lied either. He doesn't seem to have been given to that in his portraiture. Just look at Jane Seymour for instance. I think the problem was Henry's ego more than anything else.
@@HistoryCalling He didn't have a reason to lie, I think. Surely her brother would have been upset if he'd change the portrait - Holdien would be calling Anne ugly! She was just unlucky (or lucky, depending).
This was the only one of Henry's wives that he didn't know personally and was already attracted to. I think it's probably a simple case of Henry expecting too much, and when they met, the chemistry just wasn't there.
Same here. If only they'd been able to do a 'chemistry test' the way modern actors do and saved everyone a lot of bother.
Yeah,because by all accounts,Anne was even more repelled by Henry,twice her age,obese,stinking and he terrified that poor young woman by his basically assaulting her in disguise(she'd been raised in a court where promiscuity and licentious behaviour did not happen).Kinda wonder how Anne privately referred to Henry when he called her (openly) the "Flanders Mare"??
You’re right! She didn’t fall over herself trying to boost his ego like he was used to.
Anne of Cleves is my second favorite of Henry's wives, after Anne Boleyn. I think she was a strong woman: she was rejected by Henry, yet she held her head high and kept on going. I don't think Anne was a Venus, but she isn't ugly either. She looks like she has a quiet, calm demeanor which she would have needed in Henry's court. Thanks for the video!
I think so too. She managed to navigate the rest of her life (with all the craziness going on around her as the Tudors fought for the throne) without getting into any trouble, which is no mean feat.
i recently listened to an episode about anne on the podcast “not just the tudors.” it was interesting because it talked about her life before she came to the court of henry vIII. it described the two as being very close and having a deep friendship that she also shared with his daughters. it shed an entirely different perspective on the woman i’d always had.
great video! thank you.
Yes, I listened to that one too. It was really interesting.
I've read other reports about what happened at that first meeting of the king and Anne of Cleves. According to one report the king did not stomp off in a huff nor showed any dismay at first. One of his own body servants said he took Anne into another room so they could converse in private (she had had some English lessons before she arrived in England) and that they ate a lavish supper together and were quite merry, the king staying up until late to get to know her better. I can imagine that no matter what he really thought of her the king was bound to welcome her and show her hospitality as she was a royal princess and had come a long way on a torturous journey to meet him. He couldn't openly dishonour her or let negative reports get back to her brother. And he did her as much honour as he could when they met on horseback for her formal entrance into London which had lavish celebrations and thousands of onlookers.......and then her formal introduction to the court where heralds trumpeted her entrance. I also think back to the report that Henry tried to kiss her as she was watching the bullbaiting and she pulled away not knowing that this huge man in disguise was the king......and that he was insulted that she didn't recognize him as true lovers in courtly love stories were meant to do. But Anne had been very sheltered and knew nothing of courtly love games nor how to respond to them. No man had ever dared to touch her before never mind try to embrace and kiss her. I am betting she had no sex education either so didn't know what to expect on her wedding night. So she didn't know anything was wrong........
Yes, I agree she'd led an extremely sheltered life and her family really did her no favours sending her to Henry with so little in the way of education. I also think you're correct that Henry didn't openly insult her. Even he had a little bit more chivalry than that.
I like to invision a modern day version of their meeting where they chatted, agreed they weren't into each other that way, discussed a way out to save face, and enjoyed a respectful friendship afterwards.
@@bec9696like depicted in Henry viii six wives series with Keith Michell 😊👍🏻
Part of the problem was that Henry was still grieving for Jane Seymour and wasn't really interested in getting married again. It was his ministers, particularly Cromwell, who badgered him into the marriage. Anne was from a tiny Principality and had no idea about courtly conduct or behaviour and the poor girl was just packed off to this foreign country, to marry someone far older than her and barely able to even speak the language. She never really stood a chance with Henry, who really only would have been happy with a replica of Jane, small and delicate, an English rose type, if you will! At the end of the day, Anne had a lucky escape, having a good relationship with Henry and his children and becoming very wealthy and with a certain amount of clout.
Yes, her family really didn't prepare her for life beyond Cleves at all. It was very short-sighted of them in my opinion. You only have to look at how well prepped Catherine of Aragon was before she left Spain at the age of 15 (nearly a decade younger than Anne) to see the difference.
You're on point. Holbein would not risk his reputation to pretty Anne up. His portrait of Jane Seymour saw her plain paleness as accurate why would he exaggerate Anne's looks? All accounts seem more done to appease the ire of Henry since no one really put Holbein on the spot. Thankfully Henry understood Holbein is an artist and let him off the hook. What I think doomed what the marriage is the initial meeting. I would also like to add the language barrier as Anne didn't really speak English. She came from an uber conservative court. I heard her mother may not have told her the business of procreation but I'm not sure about that since her elder sister Sibylla had children in her marriage to John Frederick I Elector of Saxony. Anne also knew nothing of music or dance something the Tudor court was known for. She was totally unprepared as a spouse for Henry VIII.
Based on her portraits, I personally think Anne of Cleves was the most beautiful of Henry’s wives. This could be because she more closely fits modern beauty standards. I mean, she has EYEBROWS. What a scandal. But also her face has the most character and there’s just something about her that allows you to tell she’s a highly intelligent woman. Also, fun fact, one of my sorority sisters looks JUST like her. And I can’t get over it every time I see the portrait.
I'm sure Anne of Cleeves had beauty, but Henry saw with his eyes, and saw with his manhood, not with his heart & soul. Some don't have eyes there, sadly. Here's a quote about beauty I like. "Butterflies can’t see their wings. They can’t see how truly beautiful they are, but everyone else can. People are like that as well.” -Anonymous
I've never heard that quote before, but it's lovely. :-)
Your video is really convincing & I liked how you stressed that she was just normal and beautiful looking. I wouldn't be surprised if Anne was just simply taller than Henry, making poor little Henry sad because ain't no one bigger & taller & higher than him, biggest boy of England - and no one dared to point it out because of his fragile ego
Thank you so much. I don't think Anne was taller than him though as he was above 6 feet (which was already very tall for the era and widely remarked upon). Had Anne been even taller than that it would have been her defining feature and a major talking point. I agree though that Henry's ego was a problem, particularly after she didn't recognise him at their first meeting.
@@HistoryCalling I didn't expect to keep on learning more after the video had ended - that's really kind of you, thanks! Not just this answer, but the general time & effort you put into reacting to comments shows you really care about the content you put out there. That's awesome :)
Glad to see History Hit sponsoring your channel. Two of my favorite content providers working together!❤
Thank you. It's my first sponsorship, so quite exciting.
I believe that one of the other portraits of her that was in profile had shown that the nose had been repainted smaller however if her nose had been particularly unfortunate I would have expected people to have latched on that feature and made accounts about it
Oh, I haven't heard that before but it's an interesting detail. I agree with you thought that a genuinely 'bad' nose would have been remarked upon.
Isn't it funny that none of the descriptions mention her smile or teeth? And yet today, that would be one of the first things mentioned when describing a young woman's looks. Thank you for this video. I have often wondered whether Henry held Holbein responsible for misrepresenting Anne. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I've heard accounts that the new Queen, upon meeting Charles, quipped, "My great grandmother was mistress to your great grandfather, so how about it?" Does anyone, anywhere on earth believe that Camilla was a greater beauty than Diana? Apparently, the clear invitation in her comment proved to be an enduring aphrodisiac. And I'm sure the reverse can be just as fatal to a new acquaintance.
I imagine before modern dentistry, just having your real teeth was a boon :-) Yes, I've heard that story about the King and Queen's first meeting too. I don't personally think Camilla is more beautiful than Diana, but I do think she's a better fit for King Charles, as their enduring relationship shows.
she may have been reasonably attractive but I suspect the court of Cleves did not prepare her well to wed Henry VIII - to her credit she managed the whole debacle brilliantly in the end
No, her upbringing really didn't prepare her for what was to come. It was incredibly short-sighted of her parents to leave a woman in her position so poorly educated.
@@HistoryCalling - Anne was a very bright lady - a shame she did not have better tutors as she would been a good pupil I believe
I believe that your assessment of the dynamic between Anne and Henry is accurate based on my own interpretation of historical documents, and other evidence. I don't believe that she was an incredible beauty, but I also believe that their first meeting is what doomed their marriage. Lucky for Anne. As you stated, she outlived them all. I believe the woman in Hans Holbein's portrait was of average looks. She wasn't homely and she wasn't a beauty either. Henry was a spoiled king-baby who had his enormous ego bruised. She was probably a clever young thing who sliced and diced him verbally on their first meeting. Imagine how a young woman of good breeding would respond to some strange oaf who accosts her while she's waiting for her new husband, the King, to arrive. Henry had been quite handsome when he was younger, but I suspect that by the time they met, he no longer had his youthful looks that would make a woman's knees weak. Instead he was overweight and probably suffering from goute. She came out of the situation better off than any of his other wives, since she didn't have to put up with him as husband for very long. The possibility that she had not had to endure connubial bliss with Henry makes her a total winner in my estimation.
Yes, I think that first meeting sealed the deal. Henry didn't even want to marry her after that but didn't feel he could get out of it and you're right that his looks were seriously waning by this point.
I have always thought it was due to her not swooning at first meeting (although if she had he probably used that against her as well).
Wonder if he also thought/confused some aspects of her with her sister.
Seems like Henry predicted on-line dating with the accusations of "you are nothing like your profile"
Haha, that's a very good analogy. Yes, maybe he felt catfished.
I feel like the unfortunate first meeting as well as Anne’s heavy foreign clothing turned Henry against her. She was uninformed about the court customs and there was a language barrier which didn’t help. It all boils down to the fact that Henry would have had to woo Anne and we all know that was not going to happen.
it’s so ironic that henry was seemingly obsessed with how his wives looked considering how he looked. out of curiosity, does history tell us when henry began to gain weight and lose the good looks he supposedly had as a young man?
The general consensus seems to be that the slide began after the jousting accident in January 1536. I think Jane Seymour was the last wife to get a glimmer of the good looking man he'd once been.
I think the portrait was accurate, if it hadn’t been (as you said) there would have been some type of punishment for Holbein. She may have been talked up a bit too much before coming to England or simply not Henry’s type. Once Henry said he didn’t find her attractive everyone else would have been foolish to disagree.
Great video, as always, and I look forward to next week!
Thanks Cassie. Yes, I think it must be accurate too. I don't think you'd dare to 'photoshop' out anything more serious than a transient pimple if you were Holbein. It would just be too great of a risk.
She might have been a good mother. It’s a shame that Anne was rejected, but it seemed she made the best of her situation.
Yes, I think she would have been and an excellent step-mother too, based on her relationships with her ex-stepchildren.
I must admit, the version claiming Henry barged in when they first met and not knowing who he was, she snubbed him makes perfect sense to me. In my opinion, it had nothing to do with her looks. After all, Holbein is one of the best portraitures in history. So, I have no doubt the portrait is an accurate depiction of Anne.
Henry consistently gives you the impression he had a huge ego. If Anne snubbed him, his ego was undoubtedly bruised, and it was embarrassing for him. That would not do. I can easily see him turning it around by coming up with a feeble excuse that she looked nothing like her portrait. Henry had a knack for using specious reasoning to prove his point and get his way. After all, his reasoning behind why he wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon was completely specious. When you examine his reign, there are many other examples of his egocentricity.
I am SO excited to hear you're part of the History Hit family!! I've been a fan of yours and theirs for quite some time, and the pairing makes perfect sense!
Thanks Caroline :-)
Maybe Henry experienced impotence with her and slandered her looks to save face. Her graceful acceptance of his slander and the keeping of his shameful secret that he couldn’t fulfill his husbandly duties could be why he treated her so well for the rest of his life.
Oh he definitely did and admitted as much to his doctors, though he blamed it on poor Anne of course. I'm sure he was worried about her repeating anything though, after Anne Boleyn's infamous remark back in 1536 that he lacked skill and virility.
Typical narcissistic response to his own problem.
Henry had a habit of punishing the women who “scorned” him. I firmly believe Anne was the one who wasn’t impressed by Henry and he made it a point to publicly humiliate her for her looks.
Such a fascinating part of the 6 wives tale. Something I’ve never heard anyone mention before in Henry’s rejection of Anne is her predecessor, Jane. Henry was heartbroken over her, I think the trauma of that would be enough to ramp up the feelings of alienation Henry felt with his new bride, and I think next with Katheryn Howard pure lust took over, and he needed to prove his virility again with all the rumors of impotence
Henry "suspected her (Anne's) virginity" but, didn't suspect Catherine Howard's?
I've always loved the Holbein portrait of Anne. Out of all the portraits of his wives, hers is the most beautiful.
I know. It's ludicrous. He never claimed Catherine of Aragon slept with Prince Arthur either until it suited him.
Nice point.
Going to see SIX this weekend, perfect timing! Your videos are a perfect warm up for the show.
I'm jealous. I think it's coming to Belfast at some point though, so I must get tickets.
Awesome video
Thank you!
I think Henry embarrassed himself and instead of blaming himself, it had to be HER FAULT that he made a fool of himself. Even so, she got the best deal of all the wives.
Yes, I think that was one of the issues for sure.
I'm so in awe of your videos. So well researched and so well read. Thank you again.
Thank you so much :-)
I have always suspected that his dislike of her had more to do with their first meeting than her actual looks. Although, I think it’s silly for him to be upset with her for ignoring him when she did not know who he was. Can you imagine his anger if she had flirted with a man when she was engaged to the king? He would have been upset and accused her of infidelity because she would have been flirting with somebody who was not her intended. But that sounds about right when it comes to Henry the eighth.
I think she was pretty. She was definitely the luckiest of all six wives.
Thank you. Have a great weekend.
Thanks Leticia. Yes, I think she had the best luck overall out of the lot of them too (not that any of his wives were especially lucky).
Anne of Cleves often gets called ugly but I for one have always found her to be one the most beautiful if not the most beautiful out of all Henrys wives. I wish her life wasn’t much of a mystery because I would love to study her life more often!
Absolutely love all of your videos! I really appreciate all of the research you clearly put into every video, it just makes everything so vivid and detailed. Out of curiosity would you consider doing any more Irish history or mythology videos? Particularly northern Irish history as a fellow northern Irish person myself, our wee country deserves more of a spotlight!
Hi Clara! :-) I would love to do more Irish history, but sadly it doesn't tend to go down well. The video on the Giant's Causeway totally bombed for instance which made me rather sad :-(
Henry was so capricious and fickle by then that it is hard to assess how much was Anne's responsibility. I agree with your final assessment....she was probably average looking or even plain, but Henry just didn't like her and thought he could "perform" better with a sexier woman.
Yes, he really was fickle. You only have to look at what he went through to get Anne Boleyn, only to cheat on her and have her killed within 3 years. I doubt he did perform much better with the next two wives, which is the ironic thing. Certainly neither conceived with him.
Wonderful video, thank you. Love the way the paintings come to life!
Thanks Elizabeth. Some people hate that detail, but I think it makes them a little more interesting.
Congratulations on your sponsorship! Your channel is definitely catching on in history circles!
Thanks Sandra. It's my first sponsorship so I'm quite excited to have it :-)
Thank you.
Anne was beautiful, and the most fortunate of all of Henry’s wives. Thank you, love your channel😊
I gess she was too prudish for him. But that saved her life.
Hi HC, thanks again for a marvellous presentation with its attention to detail.
Poor Anne, she never stood a chance after the media of the day built her up. But at least she out lived them all.
I think that in all that went on Anne was a victim in everything that happened.
Thanks again HC.
Yes, she certainly had the last laugh in terms of keeping her head and getting lots of money. I suspect she would rather have been Queen of England though, as she seems to have hoped Henry would take her back after the Katherine Howard debacle.
Really, I didn’t know that.
So she thought there was a chance for her and King Henry after Catherine Howard?
Amazing.
Shows what feelings she must have felt.!
Thank you for shedding light on this.
@@HistoryCalling I just assumed she was smart enough to always smile to the King, since angering him could be lethal. Only a fool would flirt with disaster like that. I had no idea that she had any further pining for or designs on Henry after the dissolution of their marriage. He was, after all, a corpulent mess who had a way of dispatching wives and others who no longer pleased him, which she knew first-hand. She clearly had the most amazing turn of fate.
Hi, awesome live video. Very interesting. It's amazing how paintings come out 😊
Thank you so much 😀 Glad you liked it and yes, those Holbeins in particular are incredible.
Fantastic, HC! Great detail!
THANK YOU STEPHEN. You're very generous as always and I'm glad you're enjoying learning more about Anne :-)
She looks very nice. Henry wasn’t exactly the cover of GQ himself.
Holbine was truly a master. Do you think you could make a video about him ?
Maybe :-)
Every Friday morning, i watch the clock eagerly for the posting of your latest video, and today's did not disappoint! Congratulations, by the way, on your new sponsor. My sense has always been that Anne was a pleasant looking young woman, but just not to the taste of Henry Tudor, who seems to have been attracted to Englishwomen except for his first wife and this bride. He didn't generally seem interested in forming foreign alliances through his marriages, did he? And he didn't travel abroad enough to get much of an idea how women dressed and behaved at other courts (although Anne Boleyn's French ways were considered beguiling by the English). Even Catherine of Aragon had already lived in England for quite a while before their marriage. I think you're on the right track by suggesting that this German princess and her ladies probably behaved and looked foreign to him. Anne of Cleves had lived a secluded life before her marriage, hadn't acquired any of the coquettish and charming ways that were a feature of the French court, and probably hadn't been taught anything about how to charm and please a man. So her dress and manner were probably what disappointed Henry the most, and she was probably totally clueless and maybe even visibly disappointed and repulsed when her aging bridegroom approached HER on their wedding night. I'm just glad her divorce settlement was so generous and she never had to put herself on the marriage market again.
Aww, thank you :-) I also agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Anne and Henry's attitude towards foreign alliances. He liked to know what he was getting.
I had watched a different video on YT that she was actually repulsed by him. I mean, what’s not to love?
He was getting fat and his bulbous, nasty leg was smelly and needed constant care. Who wouldn’t jump to be near that?
When she didn’t react the way he expected, his dismissal of her was purely ego. This is the story that I’m inclined to believe. It falls in line perfectly with Henry’s narcissistic character.
I wonder what the primary source was though that that other video used (if they had one)? I've never seen anything which said that she was repulsed by Henry and in fact she harboured hopes after Katherine Howard's execution that he would take her back and grumbled about him marrying Catherine Parr because Anne felt that she (Anne) was better looking than CP. All that being said, I can tell you that I think I would have been repulsed by him at that stage of his life, no matter whether Anne was or not.
Congratulations! I’m a HH subscriber and I always mention your channel when they survey as I enjoy your work.
Hi Nanette, thank you so much :-) That's really kind of you.
I suspect what he didn't like was her being over 19yo, self-confident, and not given to fawning.
Just saw the portrait at the Lourve two weeks ago. It has been cleaned and looks beautiful, much closer to the miniature.
Love it! Great job and loved the “Face” feature.
Thank you very much :-)
@@HistoryCalling just so you know, I am just waiting for a face reveal next 😂.
My wife has decided to leave and take my kids as well so at least I can comment how i please now ❤️😂
On a serious note, I do really like your videos, don’t change your format or anything it’s perfect.
Thank you for another great video! I think that the portrait was very likely to have been an accurate portrayal of Anne, as I don’t believe that Holbein wished to incur the wrath of Henry, had he tried to mislead him in any way. Either way, I am glad that she was able to survive the brief marriage, and hope that she was able to live a fairly happy life, despite being separated from her family and homeland.
Thank you. Yes, I can't imagine Holbein altering anything more than perhaps removing a pimple. It just wouldn't be worth his while once Henry saw the real thing.
@@HistoryCalling uh! it's not altering, painting is painting. people would still look different in the flesh and when they move showcasing their actual face.
wasn't Anne Boleyn hated by everyone but not even henry said she was ugly
Thanks!
THANK YOU so much Mary for your very generous donation to the channel and I hope you enjoyed hearing about Anne's painting :-)
I have done many hundreds of drawings of people myself & have been a long-time admirer of Holbein's work. The man was a genius! I am quite certain, from my own experience & from his drawing technique & the details of the line work, that every portrait he produced was absolutely true. Often, (as even in photographs), a face can look quite different from different angles and I think this could be a factor with Anne (her nose and left eye may well have appeared so if it had not been full faced). Others would quite naturally have been complimentary in tone when describing someone who was probably going to be their Queen, to such a man who one wouldn't want to upset. Never a good move!
I have always believed Henry's attitude was the result of a bruised ego. Their first meeting, when she apparently took him for a juvenile oaf (which he probably was, if you imagine a modern day powerful, spoiled jock) was to blame. All of his subsequent comments & behaviour would be entirely consistent with the embarrassment of such a man, who would be used to (& expect) women to swoon at first sight.
I understand that they became good friends subsequently, which might also suggest that she wasn't quite the eyesore he claimed at that time.
I think it was Thomas Cromwell who Henry was angry with for pushing the marriage forward; She was supposedly very well liked by everybody who met her, had a pleasant personality, and outlived all of Henry's wives.
well, just have to say that anne is beautiful, and henry was no oil painting himself.
Exactly :-)
Out of all the portraits I think Anne of Cleves is the prettiest. I think he had a problem with her body, because maybe she was bigger chested and maybe a bit heavier than what he was use too. That doesn't mean she was ugly..just a bit extra compared to others. Just my opinion.
Wonderful !! Thank you and conflagrations on the new sponsorship!
Thanks Marilyn :-)
im loving the history hit sponsor😻 they are awesome!!
Thank you :-) My first ever sponsorship in fact!
@@HistoryCalling yay congratulations!! here’s to many more, you deserve it!
I always enjoy your videos. What happened to the portrait of the sister?
Thank you. Sadly we don't know what happened to Amalia's portrait :-(
Good job, interesting the range of opinions.
Thanks Nathan :-)
Anne of Cleves has for some unknown reason, has always been my favorite of Henry VIII’s wives.
I can't help feeling that Anne's looks aren't the main issue here. The whole episode says more about this spoiled and inadequate man and his libido!
He chose all his other wives having been around them and found them physically desirable. This, of course, wasn't the norm. Not that Henry had the discipline to settle on a dynastic marriage that didnt suit him. A dynastic/ political marriage is precisely what Cromwell pushed him into.
I do think the frumpy German fashions and her lack of recognition of the king on their first meeting wouldn't have helped but this (as with everything in his life) was first and last all about Henry!
Yes, he was very self-centred with no thought at all about what it would be like to be in her shoes.
I honestly think, from the paintings, that she was the most beautiful. I love her little button nose and slight smile. She hurt Henry's pride, thank goodness! She was the luckiest.
That was very interesting beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and from listening to you it probably was more then what she looked like. Especially if Henry was expecting something totally different. Thanks for all the interesting information you give it helps me think.
Thanks Vernon. Yes, beauty certainly is in the eye of the beholder. Only Catherine of Aragon was ever thought by others to be particularly beautiful yet Henry was, at some point, gaga about the other 4 despite their very different and sometimes only moderate looks.
I love the Holbein portrait myself,and think she's more attractive than both her predecessor and her successor.A very fortunate woman indeed.
Yes, I must say she looks prettier than Jane Seymour to me too and I'm on the fence about Katherine Howard.
@@HistoryCalling Jane was not attractive at all,poor thing.But less of a challenge than Anne Boleyn,and perhaps that's why Henry married her.
In a lot of ways, Henry seems to be focusing more on personality than looks when choosing his wives.
I always thought she was not only the most intelligent of his wives but the most beautiful as well. Maybe I'm biased because she was always my favorite of the group. She was the one who had the good sense to let him have whatever he wanted and get out of the way!
Excellent video as always 👏 - an absolute pleasure to listen you (and your beautiful voice 😊!). You always work off original source material or, if not, say so, and explain why (as someone who trained as a scientist I very much appreciate this!). Shame that many historians are much less rigorous than you are. I think that there was a lot more to this story - probably wrapped up in the politics of the day, as this was essentially a political union that didn't work out.
Thank you so much. Yes, I'm a stickler for primary sources and would go so far as to say that those who don't use them, or use them very little, aren't real historians. Unfortunately mine is a field into which a lot of people think they can parachute with no training and do well in, then to top it all off they want to have the word 'historian' in front of their name and be treated like the real deal. It's infuriating actually as you wouldn't be able to do this in a scientific field (imagine if your so-called doctor or dentist told you they had no training and were basically just an amateur enthusiast!), but there's nothing I can do about it. We're plagued by pseudo-historians, some of them very well known and unfortunately frequently believed, even when they're spouting absolute rubbish. :-(
@@HistoryCalling couldn't have put it better myself - please carry on with the great work - you are very much appreciated 😊.
That was mildly shocking when the paintings came alive and started moving! Didn't see that coming.
Just keeping you on your toes :-)
Thank you, I really enjoyed this , agree with your opinion , I do enjoy the analytical side ,it's the only way to honestly understand evidence and the times , plus human nature, which human nature, hasn't altered much at all over centuries, it's a wonderful painting, attractive and beautiful colours, 🙏
Thanks Colin. Yes, I agree that human nature doesn't change that much.
I think she looks lovely and probably was attractive but may have been repelled by Henry when they first met. His other wives apart from Katherine of Aragon were English courtiers and knew the king and were schooled by their families how to behave. His pride was hurt and he needed a wife who would flatter him.
I totally agree with you that part of the problem was Anne's foreignness combined with a very poor education (by English royal standards). Even Catherine I'll bet, had picked up some of the ways of the English court by the time she became Queen and her general background and education just left her much better prepared for what she was entering into.
If King Henry said I was ugly I'd have lost my head, or been made into a court jester lol. Because I'd have shown him a mirror 😂
Yup, that would have had you going to the old block I'm afraid. 😯
Interesting vid, ty! My goodness Henry's infamy never disappoints to say the least.
Another Tudor Story - thank you so much for that. Anne of Cleves was the lucky one, i think. In the TV series "The Tudors" in my opinion Joss Stone did an amazing job by playing her👗👩👑👸🏰
"The Tudors"-tv series is largely sensationalised,fictious and dramatised.As a highly researched and educated historian I actually found it quite offensive.As did have found other dramatised "historical" films that use very little fact.Opium of the masses.
(Professor K Hastings-Howard)
Yes, I wasn't sure at first about having a singer play her, but Ms Stone proved a good actress too.
As Holbein's portraits are 3/4 face, showing the contours of the forehead, chin, and nose, and this one is face on, there would be reason to ask if she had a bulbous or hooked nose, a protruding or weak chin, buckteeth, and/or a prominent forehead. While these are traits of a strong German princess, but not to English standards, Henry, who clearly liked a feminine and child-like face, would have found her too masculine. At the time, being ruddy, or dark was a polite way to say she was not pretty. We can trust that Holbein gave her the best possible angle.
I truly believe Henry and his cronies completely made up and lied about her supposed lack of beauty. Here's my reason/theory. 1. Hans was the premier painter of his time, he was the patron of court and used until his death AFTER this portrait was done. 2. No amount of persuasive bull from Cromwell would have convinced him to lie to a king that was already notorious for killing ANYONE who displeased him. 3. All accounts that say she wasn't attractive wanted to keep their heads too!! 4. She had seriously, in his opinion, been rude and crushed his ego. Here she is,, a stranger in a new country, doesn't know the language, people are whispering,, she is exhausted, thought she'd have a couple days to regroup, refresh, rest.....when all the sudden a fat man in a mask tried to kiss a woman who was a total innocent in the game of courtly love. She's innocent and naive, waiting on a king, is offended some JA tries to molest her and she has to fend him off to protect her honor. 5. Her customs , style of dress , lack of sexual knowledge, lack of experience in being near groups of people, her not knowing the language.....those are the reasons H8 maligned her. If she was so different than the known portrait by Holbin, if H8 TRULY felt like he had been deceived by the painting...why wasn't he killed also? Why did he stay on, H8 use him for everything, and even had him do his official last portrait? Anne was just fine.... H8 was an idiot. She would have been an amazing queen for England.
I love history hit. I listen to not just the Tudors and Betwixt the sheet.
Both excellent choices :-)
Of all the portraits of all his wives, I've always thought that she, Anne of Cleeves, was the prettiest. Because I'm kind, I will not say what I think about Katherine Howard!
Ah now, I suppose we have to remember that for one thing we aren't sure the pictures we have of Katherine Howard are definitely her (though I think the miniatures are) and for another, said miniatures are just that - miniature. This makes it more difficult to produce an accurate likeness, though if anyone could do it, Holbein could.
@@HistoryCalling Apparently, before cutlery became commonly used, most people had quite a prominent lower jaw, with the bottom and top teeth more or less meeting. The better to tear your food with. Only with cutlery did our lower jaw retreat a little, meaning most folk now have a slight overbite, with the top teeth overlapping the bottom. I truly wish I could remember where I heard this hypothesis but I cannot. I'm full of useless/interesting information with no provenance! Although this tidbit really relates to C of A. It's KH's eyebrows that distress me 😂.
Is it possible that Anne of Cleves had lost a great deal of weight during the hesitation to respond to requests for information?
I'm thinking about his highness' complaints about her "loose" "not firm" body parts. As I write this it makes sense to me that this might be much more likely.
Even a young woman, having lost 20-30 pounds, will take some time to firm up, flesh wise, even as she fits in small-sized clothing and looks fine.
Henry VIII was a notorious connoisseur of young women. And he had no reason to be patient at all... in fact, his patience had been used up completely already.
It would've been a tremendous opportunity for her and her country if she had become a successful Queen of England. - It certainly would've been worth a shot to lose weight and try.
(Spoken as someone who has struggled life-long with weight and found, to my dismay, that I could wear a size 6, but I should keep my dress on...)
Good evening to history calling
Hi Bea. Enjoy the video :-)
I could listen to your voice for hours lol
He usually got to know his conquests. I think it was difficult for him to have essentially a mail-order bride. Even Anne Boleyn was at court for a good while before he took a liking to her.
I know I'm reading into this a little bit and it's just my personal opinion, however I think what most likely happened was that Anne did look like the portrait, and was physically beautiful, it was just something about her demeanor or personality that Henry wasn't attracted to. I think it was easier for him to pick apart her looks as a reason for his dislike, rather than her character. It's entirely possible that she was conventionally beautiful, but at the same time Henry did not find her attractive.
She's a no-nonsense German princess and not a swooning English rose.
Also Henry couldn't behead Anne because she's royalty and a foreigner, too. Beheading her at that time would admitting that kings could be beheaded, too.
In Disney's Peter Pan the fairy Tinkerbell was modelled on Marilyn Monroe. In the remake Tinkerbell was played by Julia Roberts. These two women were beautiful but very different build. Given his previous and subsequent women I think Henry would have preferred Julia over Marilyn. That he made a fool of himself at Rochester put a seal on the failure.
I never knew that about Marilyn/Tinkerbell. :-) I can't say who Henry would have preferred I'm afraid.
I find it very rich of Henry complaining about someone's body when he at this point was an overweight man with a rotting ulcer in his leg. Anne did absolutely nothing wrong and she probably was quite pretty (I find her Holbein portrait to be so) but Henry wanted THE most beautiful woman as his wife and so was setting himself up for disappointment. I heard from some people that Anne apparently had a much more violent reaction to Henry at their first meeting. Someone even claimed she spat on him when he attempted to kiss her in disguise.
Yes, he was in no position to criticise. I've never heard the spitting story and to be honest, I doubt that's true. It would have caused a major diplomatic incident and I think Henry could have used behaviour like that to get out of the wedding.
Anne of Cleves was BEAUTIFUL, just BEAUTIFUL.
He was embarrassed because he told people she would recognize him as her “love”. Then he surprised Anne by showing up early NOT dressed like a King. Tubby the Stinko..err…Henry kissed her. NO ONE there knew he was the King. He was embarrassed and tried to save face by slamming her.
Holbein painted true. It’s ludicrous to think there wouldn’t be repercussions.
Yes, I think the portrait is accurate too, though in person she may not have been to Henry's taste and certainly as you say, she inadvertently bruised his ego.