Why The Toyota GR Supra is my Biggest Disappointment of 2021!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2021
- Today, I finally get to drive the reborn legend - the Toyota Supra. Released to great fanfare, the car met with very divided opinion. Platform shared with the BMW Z4, and built in Austria, loyal fans felt like this was a betrayal of the Supra's JDM roots. Toyota argue that they were involved in the car's development to make it their own too, and that you should judge the car based on its merits not its manufacturer. So, is it any good?
#Toyota #Supra #GR
Want to see your car on the channel? Email me on talk@jayemm.com
************************************************************************
Looking to buy a new or used car? HOLMESDALE FINANCE can help!
My channel partner Holmesdale Finance specialises in finance solution for new and used prestige, sports and performance cars - including MODERN CLASSIC policies and many more. You might be surprised at what they can do, so speak to them to find out more. Their website is www.holmesdalefinance.co.uk/
***********************************************************************
Looking for a new stereo or multi channel system for your home?
Speak to James Dean at DB Hifi for the best deal on the best equipment around.
www.dbhifi.co.uk
***********************************************************************************
Want More JayEmm? Become a channel member for access to exclusive content!
/ @jayemmoncars - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
As the owner of a 2021 3.0 Premium Supra I have to say some of your criticisms are fair and legit. The interior is tight and dark. The stock audio system is below average. The fake vents are somewhat silly. I live in the US, so I think the pricing is skewed for you as a car like an M2 CS or Cayman, etc is much closer to the Supra than in the US. The wind buffeting in the car is terrible if you try to roll the windows down. The lack of Android audio (I am an Apple guy) is frustrating. Luckily most of these issues are easily fixed (wind buffeting is a $7-150 fix, audio is some setting changes and adding ports and speaker wadding and disabling the fake engine noise through the speakers).
I do find your review overly harsh, but that is fine it's your opinion and I know some of this is show. I own and have owned a lot of cars, and I do take my cars to the track so I feel like I am speaking with some objectivity (again even though I own the car). My last 5 cars in order. 2020 Camaro SS1LE, 2018 Shelby GT350, 2018 ND Miata, 2017 Focus RS, 2016 C7 Z51. (And I've owned tons of other cars including RX-7's of evert gen, 300ZX TT, BRZ, BMW M3, etc, etc. A Toyota or BMW fanboy I am not. I love this car. So much so that I had a C8 on order and cancelled it (the Supra was just supposed to get me through the summer from May to Sep).
I fell into the Supra by accident. My C8 Corvette production date got significantly bumped and I had already sold my SS1LE (for far more than I paid). I went straight to Porsche and drove a gently used Cayman S manual and a GTS (4.0) PDK. I could not stomach the 4 cylinder 718 S, and really did not like the gearing of the manual at all. The car was used certified and over $80K. Nope. I fell in love with the 4.0 GTS PDK. But the sticker was around $100K with normal options. Yikes. I looked into the M2 CS. I liked the car but didn't feel like it was worth $65-75K (average used to new price here in the US). Drove the Supra and was sold. I paid $53K out the door (in May) on a $58K sticker car and there was nothing else out there that can touch it here in the US for the price.
With a few minor suspension mods I feel like I have the handling dialed in and this car is so easy to make more power. The engine and trans are really well programmed and synced and the car is a blast on straights or on the track. It is inexpensive and easy to add more power. In terms of quality I feel like it has the perfect balance of tech and quality materials. Overall build quality and material is leagues above the GT350 and SS1LE and my C7 Corvette. Like all cars it's not perfect and if your a bigger guy most sports car seats are not comfortable (I am 5'11" and 190lbs and fit perfect, in fact I wish the seats were a little more aggressive like my GT350 Recros).
I personally don't get all the hate on this car for the price range (US numbers). Styling is always subjective you either love it or hate it. People living in the past with the MK4 Supra are not grounded in reality. That car was a massive sales failure for Toyota in North America. 2 models years of the MKV have outsold 6 model years of the MK4 in the US alone. Could Toyota have built a halo Supra in house with an all new chasis, engine, trans, etc? Sure. But it would have been a $100K+ car and it would sit on the lot. Honda/Acura did that with the new NSX (which is a great car but far too expensive to build).
Maybe you should get a real Sports Car, an Elise/Exige.
@@daveblock4061 Been there, done that. The Elise/Exige is not really a car I want to drive 10-12K miles a year. It would be a big step down from the Supra in terms of comfort and tech and would be much slower. But definitely a more engaging car to drive. Although an Elise/Exige pale in comparison to sport bikes which I find to be far more exhilarating and engaging than any sports car I’ve owned.
@@thillyard1 It is only a car. Comfort and tech is not a Sports Car. You telling me you drive something with fake steering and fake engine noises through the speakers?! Barf! You like Grand Tourers, not sports cars, fair enough.
@@daveblock4061 It’s a balance between modern amenities and sportiness, and your comparing a car that first started being produced in 1996 to one that started production 23 years later. In the US, at least, all cars have to meet safety standards that a 23 year old Lotus can’t. And yes modern sports cars do have amenities and tech. And that is true from Porsche to Lamborghini, to Ferrari, to even Lotus. The upcoming Lotus Emira in the US will have a giant touchscreen, lane departure warning, automatic braking, Alcantara/leather, heated mirrors/seats, etc. By your definition all modern sports cars are considered grand tourers.
You don’t seem to know much about the Supra and clearly have never driven one. For example the piped in engine noise can be permanently disabled. By “fake steering” you mean electric assisted which nearly every sports car has now.
I sometimes sit in my car for hours in traffic in the dead of summer or winter so yes I like a car with useable air conditioning and heat, and has Apple CarPlay so I can listen to podcasts. But it’s also nice having a car that can go to the track (reliably) when I want and is also very fast off the line. I really like the Lotus but my Jeep Wrangler is probably faster at s stop light.
And like I said if you really want engaging and to feel like a real man you should be driving a sport bike. No Lotus can match it.
@@thillyard1 I owned a Supra, so may have a clue. Along with a 1979 Euro-Spec 930. Even Porsche admits the 911 is now a GT. Anything over 2800-3000 pounds is not a Sports Car. As for sitting in traffic, never done it, never will. Life is too short. And the Evora/Emira interest me not. Too heavy. British Car Happy Hour today and every Friday. Elans, Sevens, Austins, Triumphs, MGs etc. At 875kg I am one of the heavier cars. No interest in driver nannies and un-safe 'safety' software. Steering: left hand, shifting right hand, traction right foot, ABS left foot. Anything else is just obtrusive. The 'driver' now has NO direct input on ANYTHING. It all goes through the Central Scrutinizer. Simplify, then add lightness.
Everyone bashes these. I can't wait to get one when they come down in price. It looks great to me, with a great tunable engine and you hardly see them. I think theyll be considered great in 20 years and people will regret not giving it the time of day.
Same with alot of cars, you just have to pick the right time. I bought 2 1994 Supras Turbos. Both on around 80k. A silver auto for 5500. Pristine. A black 6 speed , not pristine but very tidy, a grade 3.5, for 8k.
Since sold them(regretfully) but there will be a perfect time for these too.
I think it's because it's a Toyota which is a BMW with a price higher than a BMW. For the price of a 3 litre Supra you can get a M240i xDrive loaded with options, M340i xDrive or M440i xDrive, all having a bit more power, AWD and the most recent BMW tech, unlike Toyota. I don't think the Supra name is enough to outweigh this.
Yes, the problem is the price. The price is something the second hand market won't have an issue with, it is very important for the bought new people, and the new Z won't help Toyota either.
20 yrs? Thats gonna be hard w ICE enthusiast, the Carbon neutral clowns gonna be smug w by 20 yrs driving this car.
Because you expect Toyota and it’s the bmw supra 🤦🏻♂️
Glad I didn't watch this video before buying one or I might have decided against it. I have absolutely loved the car since getting it. It's a great comfortable daily and takes to mods incredibly well. Anyone who let's the whole bmw debate bother them is silly imo. Why bother. It's like a little kids argument and typically one made by people who have never even driven one. Take the car for what it actually is, ignore the gossip and you won't be disappointed at all.
+Jake Atkinson
Not a Supra Owner but 100% agree, in general i feel TH-cam Comments in the past 2 Years got more and more crowded with People who just parrot what is currently the thing to complain about often even including absolute nonsense.
On top of that i always found it hilarious People complain BMW worked with Toyota on the Supra. What exactly would be bad about a BMW engine if it was 100% BMW made?
The McLaren F1 which all of these people worship (as it should be) uses a BMW engine and yes BMW helped work on the McLaren F1 in more than just provide an engine.
I guess that makes the McLaren F1 "not a real McLaren" "not a real Gordon Murray Car".
People just love to spread nonsense about cars they heard somewhere if it's currently what everyone complains about.
@@chartreux1532 well said, thank you. 👏👏👏
Same here I own 21' Supra, I own 3 other cars 21' Type R , 21' STI and 19' IS350. I have more fun with Supra than others yes even though it's an automatic, I was surprised as well. So my point is don't listen to these youtubers go and test drive yourselves!! And all these kids who never even driven one are the ones who complains the most!
@@misnomerl6329 spot on!
Test drove it but I couldn't get over the looks, specifically the shark front end which reminds me of the 2007 Mercedes SLK and the bubble roof. Otherwise, it is a great car. From the rear, it does look very good. Looks aren't everything but I like the feeling I get when I walk up to my car every day and really like what I see.
You know Mazda is about to manufacture all themselves a new inline six engine. Since they're currently in joint venture with Toyota for the Aygo and 2 models, my dream is they'll make their new sportscars together, with the same platform and chassis, if they can't justify the expenses making it on their own.
Seems odd given we're moving to electric
i have a feeling the MK6 will be on that Mazda platform but not before Mazda releases all the cars they want to drop that engine on
I think it's going to be supercharged rather than turbocharged. But hell, even Toyota's new TT V6 would have worked, nobody cares if it's an I6 or not, just like how the Z changed from an I6 to V6 decades ago.
Team up to build compelling products to generate sales with intent to develop future EV tech … sounds like a plan to catch up in the industry.
@@frooqy this isn't directed at you but just stop, thanks.
James I am normally the first to go against the establishment but on this occasion I feel the need to call you out and say you are wrong from what I believe,
I Think Toyota have done a good job with with modern variant of the Supra, it took me some time to come away from nostalgia but assessing the car on its own merit Toyota have made a wise choice going to the slogan providers of "The Ultimate Driving Machine" for this to be an everyday usable performance car not necessarily a full on sports car as the mk4 was not exactly a Lotus in the 1st place.
For the way the mk4 may commonly be known or seen on TH-cam people will always think of a manual big single turbo with silly horsepower it was the Japanese muscle car the highway cruise missile.
I think Toyota have been very clever selected the B58 and the ZF8 the 8 speed means it has a continuous pull and the tuning options available for those who want to live the glory days are still there and a lot cheaper to get there too may I add as they will be compatible with the same hybrid turbo and software that is used on the M240 and these have been seen regularly to see over 700bhp on standard internals before going for a full on big turbo.
For those less crazy, software and a downpipe can see a reliable 450bhp
They have purposely left the spoiler off as they have learned form the last one people are likely to change it and working as a double edged sword it is more subtle for those who do not want the attention.
Things that people will change I think they have left room for customer to change/modify , spoilers , stereos , suspension etc
This has been a very clever car and dare I say it I think it is a bit ahead of its time.
Thank you for great content as always James keep it up!
The production plant in Graz (Austria) is not owned or managed by BMW. It belongs to Magna Steyr which is an independent austrian company.
Exactly. Steyr are a subcontractor for a ton of vehicle brands
"I think BMW conned Toyota here, what BMW managed to do was get an updated Z4 M Coupé." - JayEmm
Best take on TH-cam of this true swing and miss of a legendary nameplate.
Been watching your reviews since that LC500 one and I have to say that your passion and dedication to this is just amazing. A new subsciber here.
I’m afraid we’ll regret “disappointments” like this in the years to come.
Exactly - just like the IS-F that nobody bought, said it was too many speeds, fake exhaust tips, etc....car disappears and everyone wants one so bad they make a half assed attempt again with the IS500 (which is not an IS-F)
I’ve said this before about other cars … when they come down in pric everyone will be doing manual swaps and big turbo setups and it will all of a sudden be a amazing car lol
i dont think they will sell that many cars in Europe for them to become cheap and also the gearbox doesnt seem to be the problem here .People done it in the MK4's because back than you would be faster with a manual
@@sergiopereira9546 ehh idk man. Even the chrysler torqueflite in 60s beat the speed of the manuals and many drag racers started opting for the torqueflite instead. I dont see how tc autos from 90s would be slower than the torqueflite from the 60s
@@288gto7 a built drag race transmission is not the same thing at all as a road transmission, and until the 8-speeds arrived, manuals were always faster accelerating.
@@richardharrold9736 dude did you even read what i said? I also didnt mean top fuel dragsters in 60s. I meant regular guys with near stock muscle cars racing, i would have said otherwise if i meant top fuel etc. Production street torqueflite could easily match the speed of the manuals back in the day
@@288gto7 even those street cars would have had torque converters optimised for drag racing, transbrakes, stuff you can't use on the road. Autos only became faster on the road in the 21st century. Before that, manuals were more accelerative and used less fuel.
I've owned one of these for the last 4 months. Originally I wanted an m4 bmw but the price of an f82 comp was stupid and I didn't feel there worth the premium in the current market. Plus the I interior is really dated. I bought this car as I wanted originally a bmw but I didn't like the bmw image so this seemed the perfect car for me.
When mk4 Supra came out it was never an epic car in standard form. People completely forget that and need to get over it. Their opionion is overshadowed by these highly modified examples with 1,000bhp. You are right this is more sports car than gt, personally that's what I want. Personally I was never really a fan of the mk4.
The lack of steering feel I agree, however most power steerings aren't feelsome. The steering is oddly too quick yes agree. If only toyota could have added a super sport setting.
As for the styling, I think it looks fantastic. The rear is my favourite angle. I've never driven a car which gets so much attention, people love the look of it and always comment. People are criticising the looks however them same people will say the alpine is a good looking car. That car really isn't a good looking car, front end doesn't match the rear. I've a had a few comments "nice bmw" but when you look at what their driving its generally whats referred to as a"s##t box.
Seats I like, I'm only 12.5 stone not 20 so the width of them is enough. My main criticism is the interior which is too dark. Wish they had put some colour into it. Yes, I'm not sure why there is no android auto
Handling is brilliant, has more grip than you would think for a rwd yet the chassis is very playful still. Toyota have left areas around the chassis where you can add rollbars to stiffen it up if you want that.
Performance - its brilliant, so much low down grunt, gearbox is brilliant too. With regards to the gearbox "too short". Yet speak to any Cayman GT4 owner they will complain the gearbox in the cayman is too long. You can't keep everyone happy.
Toyota designed this car so you can make it as you want. Agree with the pcp thing, however most people still modify them anyway.
Do I care if it feels like a Toyota? Absolutely no, it drives very well, handles superb, very well balanced. Has a quality interior, comfortable and complient on the road for everyday use. It's a great all around package. I would encourage anyone to buy one.
The mk4 was epic in terms of power but not in terms of looks
Not true! When the MK4 Supra came out it was am epic car. It had comparable numbers our better in some instances, to a 911 of similar generation.
What alot of you consider bland is what makes the basis of a great tuner car; just good enough in all areas to build on. Today, everyone wants instant race car from the factory. Different philosophical company approach 20 plus years ago. Is that surprising.....?
Enjoy your purchase. I personal hate the car. I'm waiting on the Z to see what it's all about
Mk4 sales were terrible though. The new one outsells the Z4 and the mk4 by a big margin.
@@peterzemanovic2038 So? Fuel economy in a 60s muscle is horrible, but the Charger is one of the hottest selling cars out here today.
@@Wiggy321 why do you hate it, do you own one or have driven one?
This was probably the best review of the Supra to date. Very thorough, well-worded, well spoken and perfectly accurate.
Thanks very much
@@JayEmmOnCars It's about time the BBC knocked your front door. Your uploads are on a different level.
This car will become more desirable as it gets older- could be a right bargain soon - one passed me the other day on the motorway and it looked pretty damn good to be honest.
If you buy cars based on looks.
Agree completely.
@@gweflj 🤣 the b58 is a great platform. These new supras are already in the low 8s 1/4 mile. A catless downpipe, tune , and better tires and they are in the 10s. What more could you want? Even stock they are plenty of fun.
They look great but should have been called something else.
It will depreciate like a stone just as all BMW's do. They are unreliable.
Couple of points Id like to add: Sporty seats in many smaller cars are likely modelled on ergonomics where the occupants are
At
The manual is potentially coming. Toyota stated that they are watching the demand for a manual, as auto sales are not what they predicted ( gee I wonder why ). And by the numbers so far, it seems very likely.
Yes! Been waiting for this review from you, James.
best car reviews on TH-cam. everyone's interested in super expensive cars but for many people the real, affordable, mostly second hand cars matter the most. please continue what you doing. big thanks
The CG is not lower on the Supra than the GT86, it's a claim that has been proven wrong by Car and Driver. It is actually not even close. The GR86 should have it even lower. Hope you will do a review of that one soon.
Just commenting to see if he responds to this comment
That's what I - as a GT86 owner - thought like from the beginning about this claim. How could that even be possible with a conventional inline 6 pot engine against a flat 4 boxer?
@@Fastvoice especially a DOHC with turbo?
@@jamesengland7461 Exactly.
It's what Toyota claims, which is pretty weird cause they are dismissing their other car with that. I think Jay just saw it in some marketing materials, can't really blame him for believing them.
With that bonnet, the proportions and the rear boot line / spoiler, they should have just stuck a Marcos badge on it
That would have been great! I wonder if there are any Marcoses left now (must be some surely)?
Honest and insightful as usual. Keep telling it like it is and I'll keep watching.
100% agree with you Jay. I wanted to love the new Supra but it's a mess. And the vents are all fake-fake. There is no routing for them especially the ones on the door and at the rear. It was one of the first things I checked when I first saw the car at an unveiling event 2 years ago. It is exactly as you said basically a new Z4M Coupe with a Toyota body.
yeah this is the first I'm hearing about the removable fake vents on... any car to be honest
That's disappointing to hear...
The vents are customizable. 🙄
Have you seen the type r’s fake vents? 😂
@@touayaaj84 they only care cuz it’s related to BMW lol
I think we do need to accept these types of car sell in tiny numbers, so compromise and a partner like BMW is necessary to make them happen at all. It's not ideal but we should be grateful for it, at this price point.
@Hector the reality is that manuals are obsolete. Manuals are slower, thirstier...
Except GM built the C8 as a way less profitable company
Um no. You can stay grateful. Not me. They won't be getting my money until they get it right.
@Hector from a driver's perspective, an automatic is more effective at keeping the engine in its power band...
And yet Toyota has built as a GR Yaris. So much for numbers
Feeling faster with short gearing is surely a good thing. That's what many Porsche enthusiasts want. When are you getting hold of a GR86?
@Haha Ajme Ah, but how else are we to rise above the flock...can't have one without the other! 😁
Lots of info and opinions. Been waiting a while for your thoughts. Loved your steering description. I have test driven GR Supra and agree with a lot stuff you said. Although even though handling is worse, I still want one after my 2017 GT86. Now I’m confused thought U.K only had Pro trim but seems not.
James, a few points in response to your opening comments, Magna Steyr is not a BMW manufacturing facility, in fact is a contractor to many OEM's, so is not built by BMW. That steering wheel is exactly the same bar the badge, used by BMW in a number of model lines, in SE trim level, in recent history. It's a moot point as to this car "being a Toyota", in much the same way for just one example, as an A Class diesel being a Mercedes Benz, given the Renault engine under the bonnet. These are the realities of bringing cars to market, that without component sharing and thus cost sharing, there would be no GR Supra, or some others. Would you rather each OEM stayed within their own parts bins, or would you rather the car buying public had as much choice as reasonably possible?. I for one, would rather have such a distinctive car, with a Toyota fettled B58, enabling a 5 year warranty, than a concept car that many would then shout...WHY DON'T YOU BUILD IT NOW?. To conclude, if a buyer is so offended by the very thought of such a collaboration, move on and buy something else.
It's one thing to share parts and platforms on normal consumer cars, it's another to share parts on the supposed halo car of the brand.
Z4 M40i has double wishbones, so Toyota decision not to have them.
Cost cutting exercise would explain this and lack of strut brace, lack of android, no HUD, etc, etc…
Two years ago I began my quest to finally buy a sports car going from my 4.2 A6, which I dearly loved. New Supra was on the short list. I bought a 3 year old, CPO 981 Cayman S with 25K miles for basically the same money. Sight lines much better and tech difference between it and new supra was not large in my book. Love the cayman handling and looks. Not regretting the choice.
What do you think about the corolla GR which is rumoured to be coming soon? with the yaris GR engine and drivetrain - I'm on a reserve waiting list for a yaris GR, but I don't think it'll ever materialise due to demand. Was wondering if the Corolla was the way to go instead
The complaint about the macpherson strut is key. Every BMW I rode or drove felt like the front subframe was going to blow through the strut towers over a large bump or undulation while cars with double wishbones feel like you were being lifted over the bump. A friend just replaced his tired out dampers on his 330i with factory Sachs units and the ride is still terrible over large undulations, something we thought was a result of the worn dampers.
Being an ex Mk.iv supra owner and a current 440i owner, this car really appeals to me. Its hard to compare a modern car with a 2jz powered car from the 90s, there's so much compromise to meet emissions and safety standards, its apples n pears. I have an s2000 as a second car and it's raw fun, but tiring as a daily. Quite like a foot full of torque and mod cons, perhaps I'm just getting on a bit!
B58 🤝
Never owned a MKIV, but I've driven one and own a MKV. Stock for stock, the MKV is a faster car, as it should be. I'd say the B58 engine technology is a hell of a lot better, many pushing 600whp+ with bolt ons only. The B58 has a forged crank and OEM girdle around it for fucks sake. The gripe shouldn't be about the engine, but the whole ECU locked deal for 2021+ and auto only for 2022-.
Was that a 80s Polo estate I spotted. at roughly 9:30 ?
You should of chased him down and done a review on that 👍🏻
Edit ; I like the supra , couldn’t care less if it’s a bmw underneath .
Great engine and gearbox , to my eyes it looks good .
They claim ,335bhp but on the dymo they make a lot more than that
Also, why isn't there a manual option just yet?
Very insightful 🌟
Great review. I saw one at the dealer, and I literally banged my head getting into the Supra, I’m below 6ft tall. The seats felt like it wanted to squeeze me into them. Once your inside, you feel sunken into the car. It’s a beautiful well performance car but a tough one to use as a daily.
Jay’s product knowledge and descriptions on handling are excellent. New subscriber here.
It lacks character and that's an important element. Just knowing it's mostly BMW creates a psychological problem.
BOOM. Correct. I want to love it but I can’t… mentally I know it’s a fraud.
Toyota would have done better using the Lexus LC500 platform for the Supra. Nobody believes they can’t afford sports cars when they’re already building them for Lexus! 🙄
Great channel, very entertaining
Recently drove a z4 m coupe and it was actually one of the most enjoyable driving experiences I’ve had of late.
I have one. Stock Jay is right, a missed opportunity to be a great car due to bad decisions from BMW. However in modded form I absolutely love mine. I bought it knowing I would need to replace the awful stock suspension with KW V3, the brakes with a big brake kit and other items that improve the overall experience. The S54 engine is fantastic, and with an eventuri intake it sings. Manual, straight six, hydraulic steering with loads of feel, an M diff and proper suspension and brakes it's a riot on road and track days too.
@11:11 - Even with a “Race Track” edition, Toyota still couldn’t be bothered to use real vents! 🙄🤦♂️
Had a look around one of these when I was in the dealership ordering 'something else', immediately hate d the fake vents, glad to hear they can be made into real vents. Like the brake cooling vents on the GR Yaris that can be opened up.
Really interesting video. I think they look awesome. Your point about why partner with BMW, who should they have partnered with in your opinion?
At present there is only bmw, mercedes and GMC that have i6 engines currently in use. Now i doubt they would have gone american with GMC, so that leaves the germans. And the bmw engine is in use more closely tp what toyota wanted.
Iirc mazda were trying to produce an i6 engine, but i could be wrong on that. If they are then toyota missed a trick ny not partering with them. We could have had some wierd rx9/supra combination?
The B58 in my 240i, with the manual 6 speed has the opposite issue with gearing. The gears are long, and by the time you're getting up in the rev range you are doing over a tonne. Still, not really a complaint!
I have never looked twice at one of these things . How Toyota could have green lit that melted looking Z4 off as a follow on to one of its most iconic cars is beyond me. I absolutely hate them. Then to go and knock out the GR Yaris showing they still have it !!! What a rip .
The silhouette is similar enough to have me double take if it's a mk4 and I just lose interest realising it's not.
Bit harsh I don’t lust after one but they are something that turns your head when you see it
@@2702simmo Sorry maybe it was but as a bit of a Toyota fan of old having had a GT Four and MR2 Turbo I felt this was just a cash in on the Supra name and for a company with the money and capability of Toyota we both know they could have made a bloody special car. We’re nearing the end of the internal combustion era and Toyota could have made the Supra something to go out on a high with if they been arsed but instead cheaped out with this car. I know platform sharing has been done for ever but the Supra was their halo car in my opinion. Was it not worth more than just chucking some bits on a German sports car?
@@Buck3366 yeah I get that
I owned a mk4 Uk car back in 2005/6 I never loved it and the praise it gets to this day surprises me. Ridiculously quick but too smooth to be an exciting sports car. Must be fast n the furious
@@2702simmo The film did send it up as something special and we are talking about 90s era cars so yeah they are somewhat overhyped. My general gripe is I know making a new car takes a staggering amount of money / time/ development but Nissan have the GTR, Honda it’s NSX and Toyota has a BMW Z4 with the same engine and effectively a shell plonked on and bows gracefully as it goes off into the Banzai sunset while the German national anthem plays . Wrong…. Just wrong . Oh well rant over .
It would be great if you could revisit the Supra now that it has a manual gearbox. I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts.
Thanks J, shows compromises don't work too well! Toyota do seem to be pushing the 'sporty' car boundaries thankfully.
did buy one, love it, sotck it was a little bit to "gentle", trow a decat and a tune, and woboy, it's an other beast, i'm loving it for the moment, no regret at all
Do you know how much power it’s making with the tune?
Totally agree, that the new Supra is not a ‘real’ supra. Having owned 3 mkiv supras they were always more of a GT than sports car and I personally think the Lexus LC500 is more fitting successor to the supra.
Glad you said that about the mk4 supra. I went from a GTR33 to one and although it remains 15 years later the fastest car I’ve owned it was just too smooth and refined to excite me at the time
Yep, a 4000lbs supra with a v8 instead of a inline six is definitely a Supra😏
@@hpickettz34 I agree the LC500 is not perfect match either as a luxury sports gt. I think we all hoped that the Supra would be the FT-1 concept but it just isn’t. The proportions aren’t right and it feels like the supra is a class down in size and performance from where it should be. I think a LCF version of the 500 with some weight stripped and more performance focused would have been as close as we could have hoped for from a Toyota/Lexus product that had some of the Supra’s qualities. Alas, feels like a real missed opportunity from Toyota.
@@hpickettz34 Toyota used a V8 in the Supras in their race cars. The 3S-GTE was used a while back but they replaced it with a bored out 3UZ. The 2JZ was never used in their race series, so the LC500 has pedigree from that aspect. I agree though, but Toyota/Lexus have a turbo V6 in production that would have been a much more suitable power plant for an "all Toyota" mkV.
@@squoblat its not just the v8 but the weight too , also can t compare what Toyota does in racings vs street cars that's a bit of a reach there
Congrats! This is the best review of the Supra! We are waiting for the GR86..
I still want one haha. Do you think it'll be improved for 2022 2023?
The FK8 Type R may have polemic styling, but at least Honda took a greater risk in taking a car with unadulterated styling into a global platform. It was a greater success and changed the game for what's possible for a FWD car. Staying true to its roots, while evolving the platform to the times, is key.
You mean Hyundai? They literally changed the game for afforadable performance compacts.
Honda didn't stay completely to their routes. The engine was forced to be turbo charged. The fk8 is a great car, styling is an absolute mess. Why do people get so hung up about sticking to the same ethos
When I look up the type R they compare it to the 4 cyl Supra, not even the 6 in line
B58 is an awesome engine. I had a MK4 supra which I loved but the new Mk5 I was disappointed from how it looked nothing like the concept. It has grown on me but I wouldn't have one now. Good review 👍
The best thing about the mk4 surpasses were the look. Found the one I had boring but I liked the looks
I can't wait to see you review a C8 Corvette ..... Great Review !!!!!!
Good review. I am extremely happy with my supra as I used to drive the mk3 focus rs and I prefer the supra over that
I love the Supra and plan to pick up an A91 GR 3.0 in the spring. They drive great, very distinctive looking and best of all there are almost none of them on the road. Here in Toronto if I see one a month I'm shocked. Are they not a true homage to the 90's Supra's (of which I owned one...) No not really but who cares? Do they have a lot of BMW stuff in them? Sure but again who cares? Oooo the vents are fake! Big deal. Most of them can be swapped out with aftermarket toys. I like to tweak cars when I get them. In this price range they bang up against the C8 corvette (well, you can't actually get a C8 corvette currently) and the older Nissan 370 (of which there are a million on the road) and that's about it. There really isn't much else at this price point.
You ask "who cares" a lot and most of the time when people ask that yeah I care. And don't just say you don't care about others caring because you wouldn't use that as a basis for anything if you didn't as you just did.
I care, because every car I've ever owned has been Toyota group. The MKIV Supra (one of which is on my driveway) was Toyota showing the world what they were capable of, in a similar way to the LFA. The MKV has only shown the world that all Toyota are capable of now is a bad compromise. When I buy a Toyota or a Lexus, I know what I'm getting and (having taken a few to bits) the design philosophy and quality really is something that I care about. The MKV is not, in any way, a Toyota. So if I'm getting a BMW, why don't I just buy a BMW? I can't be proud of a badge when it is nothing but a plaster attempting to cover up a plethora of bad decisions. Fine, the B58c goes through Toyota quality control, but the car is still manufactured in a BMW factory. It's still a BMW chassis, with BMW interior, BMW ICE systems and BMW parts. What stings even more is that I know Toyota can still churn out a decent car, because they gave us the GR Yaris, which in some ways almost feels like an apology for the MKV. I wish the MKV had been made in tandem with Lexus and shared the LC floorplan.
Same here love it and bought it. I just hate when people complain about things that are completely nonsense to me, its a z4, okay so what? why are people so butt hurt over a name? I would not care less if it was called Z4pra. I see nothing objective in the criticisms people act like fake vents can kill you lmao seriously? grow up. I would buy that car again 10 times, Also the majority of people love it when they see it in person, and most importantly I myself love it to death
@@mouhalo Names and legacies mean something.
@@squoblat To be fair, they did the same thing to Subaru in a way with the GT86/BRZ. Subaru got their version, but couldn't actually "Subaru" it with AWD or a turbocharged engine. In return not only did Toyota get their own deserts from BMW, but a top-spec Supra is the same price as the Z4M40i and the BMW gets to be honest about the real power ifgure of 390hp vs Toyota's 335hp. In all, Toyota is on the path to simply GM themselves and when they finally crest that point, no one will care anymore if they did come up with something unique because we'll be stuck with our eyes on the companies that didn't stop being unique.
If I have to choose between gearing that's too short or too long give me too short any time. Esp with 8 ratios.......... I'm sure this thing still lazes down the highway just above idle. It's good to be able to go through some gears w/o risking your license.
To me the real problem with this car is that the M2 exists. Well that and the new 400Z
lol the Porsche fanboi club is now giving you ‘the look’
great review.
I had an M couple and hated looking over that front end...lusted an NSX with the low cowl...
Thanks for your honesty.
Love this car. Take who designed the car out of the equation and just enjoy the car for what a great machine it is. It’s a rocket that rides on rails. Miss it, I will definitely get one again once the crazy used car market bubble pops.
So, as an owner, the new Supra feels (i.e., driving position, responsiveness, sounds), looks (wheelbase, overall proportions) and drives (chassis response/turn-in, brakes, 0-60 acceleration, over 1.g of grip, light weight) like the sports car it actually is. As a previous owner of several BMWs (which I loved) it is simply not a family sedan trying to be a sports car or "sports coupe". The biggest issue is I'm 6'2" and and have to tuck my head when getting in/out. But once in, the car is very comfortable. The seats are great, but I weigh 190lbs too. If you want a sublime driving experience, buy one.
I have an X4 M40i with this very same B58 engine and I can only imagine how insane that engine and gear must be on such a lightweight sports car
I really hope you get a chance to review the new gr86 sometime soon
Having said all that you have, how would you say this compares to the MK4 objectively? I have a feeling people expect this to be a perfect sports car, however from what I hear, MK4 was no GR86 either. MK4 has this legendary status for the ability to push out 1,000 units of horsepower, but the majority of people know that that's kinda pointless, so what they're left in real life with is a stock MK4, which, again, ain't no GR86 or Miata, it had its own drawbacks. So if we forget about the "legendarity" and the badge for a moment, what would be your thoughts on this one compared to MK4?
Out of the box the Mk4 was not really a sports car either, it was a GT. This feels closer to an RX7 in drive than a Supra
I have had a mk4 manual vvti for about 4 years now. I drove it for 2yrs as a stock twin turbo car, then spent money going single turbo and now makes 500hp at the wheels. What I would say about the mk4 Supra is that it’s a really special event driving the car. Everything feels raw, you are sitting really low down and can feel the road through your bum, the car has effortless torque but you can be a hooligan too if you want, yet it’s compliant on the roads. It gets a lot of good attention from everyone too. This new Supra just doesn’t feel as special as the mk4 is…
@@poroussi "This new Supra just doesn’t feel as special as the mk4 is" - to be fair, it's just a fact of life that people don't tend to see new stuff as special as something old, unless it's super high end and limited production.
As usual... Great review... Nailed. A Z4 M Coupe paid for by Toyota. Playing it "safe" is just not a winner.
I never made the connection between this and the old z4 coupe. Blew my mind wide open
I'm a Toyota nut too! First car I ever drove was an early 70s corolla on my dads lap! I now own a Hilux Surf 3rd gen and about to shift to an Alphard...anyway I wander
if this will be "the last ever petrol Supra" I hope not.. if so perhaps prices will plummet like Mazda Rx7's and become a low budget sports car in a decade or more but hopefully by then we have mods to sort out the issues.I wish though that Toyota would give us one last hurrah on a full petrol mk6 Supra to redeem themselves.
Good Reviews JayEmm 👍
I hate relatively affordable six cylinder sports cars. Can’t wait until everything is an electric crossover
😂
I’m curious to hear more about the comment why you’d still pick the supra over the M2 . did I miss another video showing why you didn’t like that car?
I mean, if he’s disappointed in the supra..
I had the privilege to drive a 2020 right before COVID started and it blew my mind unlike any sports car I'd ever driven. However, I feel like your criticisms were all very fair and accurate. I never felt like I was driving a Toyota the whole time, but rather a European sports car which the MK5 Supra technically is. Still, as long as these prove to be reliable in the long run and they actually start depreciating sometime this century I wouldn't mind owning one someday.
Can you review the G29 Z4?
I should like the Supra - but I don't. I cannot even put my finger on what it is, but I would never buy one. The 400 Z, which is not sold in Europe, on the other hand, ...
When is Toyota not a Toyota, when it's made by BMW with BMW part bin components.
What was Toyota thinking?
Not a "must buy" now or in the future, unless it becomes rare due to lack of sales.
High time that Toyota designed and built it in Japan, even if they need to include
Mazda to create a desirable coupe.
My 21 supra had the typical bmw electrical issues. I'd get random warning lights that pops up and then goes away. "chasis function limited" , TPMS light came on "due to external forces", and random laggy transmission that didn't want to move sometimes. It's a great car when these small random issues didn't pop up but a bit worrisome when it did. Also battery warning light came on we then I first bought it and can only be shut off by the dealerships. Also keep an eye on the oil level because these engines seems to burn oil. Lost a quart when I did my first oil change at 5k.
Would love to see you get your hands on a GR86 soon! 🙂
I think I about watched every video/car review of yours in youtube James. So I feel somewhat in a position to make this comment about this video of yours.
I think its the most accurate and thorough and thought out youtube car review of the Toyota GR Supra. I have been critical of some of your car review videos in the past, citing, yeah! but tell us what you really think about the car! stop pandering to its good points all the time James! This video, we all heard loud and clear what you really think James. Well done with this car review James. More like em!!
I dunno, I think James can be quite brutal about what he thinks when the car’s not good especially when you consider that most of the time, the cars he drives are offered up by fans who are often sitting next to him as he reviews
I wanted to love the Supra (I like the looks) and the bmw platform is a winner and the car wouldn’t have existed without the partnership . Look at how many mk4’s sold with all their legendary status they weren’t a sales success . But the driving position is awful on the Supra the roof line too low for taller drivers and it felt wooden and uninspiring to drive.
I'd watch top gear again if you were presenting, genuine car guy who's knows what he's talking about.
Love the look of these cars, the big rear arches, the bonnet and the window shape, but apparently the wind buffeting is terrible when the windows are down.
The buffeting is not all that bad.our RAV4 is much worse.
@@davidhorne2326 ok that’s good to know.
They are great to drive, drove one a few times at work.
Plus I had one for a month or so as my company car 'BMW m240 i" was being upgraded to a new car.
Preferred my 3 series 330i and x3 35d.
The only thing I didn't like was the luggage space and size inside.
As a driving car, it was a really good, bit firm but perfect on a B Road. Not so much longer journeys, I've been told thou much nicer than the z4 in most ways.
Totally agree on “they made a Z4 coupe.” If only the styling was as good as that bimmer.. the front of the new Supra looks like a deformed penis. Criminal when you compare the concept to production. And I think this half-hearted approach will bite them in the end when the all-new 2023 Nissan Z comes out (available with a manual) at a more affordable price and turns this latest Supra into the Dodo bird 🦤.
Only one problem with that, the Nissan Z isn't coming to the UK
@@TheBantana fair point! I did not know about Nissan’s European market decision around the new Z. I’m speaking from a USA perspective. Sad news for my fellow enthusiasts across the pond.
The Z4 is ugly as fuck. Seen those nostrils?
The mk4 was a bit rubbish until it was modified. The mk5 is the same, not bad but not great…until it’s modified.
You’ll have to try my modified one.
Great video, nice review! Sub'd
"A clip of someone trying to hit a baseball and swinging, accidentally knocking themselves on the floor, falling onto landmine, exploding, and having their entries land in a sort of compromising and slightly funny way."
When is the "Simile of the Year Awards" ceremony on? Can anybody suggest which category this would be in?
I think the decision to go with the B58 was and is a really good choice and one that makes perfect sense. The issue, is that it doesn't have the characteristics of a MK4 Supra and that the chassis/frame, suspension and interior are BMW. Which means it's too similar to the new Z4m40i. Which is a decent two seater sports car, but people who are into JDM performance cars, will not be interested in a new Z4m40i. So who is the target customer then? People who prefer German Engineering with a soft spot for Toyota? Or people who always wanted a MK4 Supra but prefer new cars? If they had offered it with a manual and called it something other than Supra then it would be less of an issue. But overall, it's just a bit of laziness from Toyota. For BMW to do 80% of the car and Toyota to just slap a different bodykit on with a hardtop instead of a soft top is disappointing. The blue on this being the same as BMW Mizano Blue sums it all up doesn't it? If you can't be bothered, then don't bother.
The manual is on the way for the Supra Spring/Summer of 2022 at least for U.S market.
I’m the target market. Someone who wants a fantastic driving sports car with good power and amazing handling, has a quality (non-Toyota) interior, and does it without an upmarket badge.
The new Z won’t compete performance-wise. The Z chassis is trash and feels heavy, the VR30 isn’t as good as the B58, and it doesn’t have the road presence of the Supra. All it has going for it is the manual.
Toyota won't repeat the same mistake, LFA is their biggest regret, and MK4 Supra back in the day aren't sell well... If the $40k MK4 Supra didn't sell then what would $80k pure Toyota made MK5 Supra will sells like ? But hey you're right, Toyota are too pussies in terms of making cars 100% by their own, even the brand new Aygo X is co joined with Mazda, but the funny thing is they could make a brand new hypercar and awd gr yaris from scratch, which is why they couldn't do the same with 86 and Supra
@@markb3961 well, the new Z are basicly a recycled Infiti Q60
@@markb3961 If there were no problems with the supply chain Z sales would've obliterated Supra sales. For the price of sad 200whp in GR86 you get 350whp highly tunable twin turbo Nissan engine. When NISMO breaths on them to create new halo car (with GT-R going away) it will make Supra 3L look absolutely pathetic.
Great review 👏.... nailed. I just can't get past the rear quarter styljng which is just a mess imho - such a missed opportunity. As for all the fake vents - less said the better. I'll enjoy the B58 in my M140i as BMW intended and if I need a 2 seat daily coupe it'll be a lightly used Cayman for the same £££. Keep up the great work James. 👍
You can't get past the styling but you bought a 140i which is one of the worst looking hatch backs? When that car came people said it resembled a boot. That and the 2 series are awful looking cars.
Drive a supra and sure it will change your mind. Certainly an upgrade over a 140i
I have also thought about Caymans but can you get a decent one from 2017 upwards for 40-50 grand? I think Servicing a Cayman would be expensive too + sometimes might need a bit of work done. All cheaper ones seem older.
@@davidkelly2542 unfortunately it didn't change my mind and my comment was based on the B58 engine use, not a back to back comparison of M140i Vs Supra - if I need a 2 seater then I expressed my view that Cayman was my choice. For now M140i is perfect as a daily and I'll enjoy my 911 Turbo for the weekends. 👍
@@paulbuckley685 drive one yourself and make your own mind up. Don't listen to someone who has driven the car for 5 minutes. The car is brilliant, perfect weight distribution, nice handling, cracking engine and gearbox.
@@davidkelly2542 I have made my mind up - please don't take my opinion as a criticism of your own choice - that's why we all love different cars. I'm sure it has some great features (I like the interior a lot) and engineering, and I have spent more than 5 minutes in one as it happens - just overall not my choice.
My biggest takeaway from this was that Toyota was involved in the development of the b58 engine.
Edit: apparently the supra runs a b58c engine which isnt the same as that in the m340i. The b58c is only used on the supra.
Can you try the new Nissan Z when it's released?
I don't think you'll get too many disagreeing with you on this, maybe they should have just asked Yamaha to update the 2JZ and built the rest of the car as it was designed. Now there's a novel idea. Who knows they might of actually sold alot more.
2JZ became obsolete by the N54, the predecessor of the N55 and B58.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZ Obsolete? Really? Are you sure? Stramgely they are still a very popular engine today especially if your looking for big horsepower and reliability which BMW can't claim except maybe on this engine because Toyota fixed it, out of date maybe due to not passing EU rules, but if they are that out of date why is it designed to be able to swap the engine to the 2jz?
Either way Yamaha and Toyota often partnered on engine building and Yamaha is probably one of the best engine builders in the world along side Honda!
Got a deposit down on one of these in red to replace my elise s. Might give this video a skip lol.
Oh shit 😂😂
Buy it and enjoy it. Reviewers only drive a car for 2-3 days and often change their minds years later after bashing a car
It's only james opinion on it, you might find it the best car you have ever driven.
What the hell are you on about? Never, ever sell the Elise. Nothing will be made that comes close ever again.
Recently saw the concept car for the Supra from 2015. That looked insane. This, although imo a very cool car, feels tuned down by comparison.
I have some experience of BMW and Toyota engine collaboration.
The BMW WW diesel engine was put into the Toyota Avensis, to satisfy the euro 6 emission standard but when the German engine was first mated to the Japanese gearbox, things did not exactly line up because of the two different engineering standards involved !
The problems were solved on the production line and have now been relegated to history but it was emblematic of the difficulty of matching two systems together !
Sorry, but you're wrong on this one. It's a massive success in the states. For the money, it's also pretty fast. Better than an automatic Cayman for less if you ask me. Also, if if weren't for the BMW partnership to help mitigate development costs you'd have NO Supra.
Side note - the Mark 4 or last generation Supra was a big comfy GT and not the boy racer like it's made out to be today. In other words, the "new" Supra is really the LC500.
Finally someone gets it lol
I think it’s a nice car… but if I were in the market by or a B58 coupe, I’d just buy a used M240i and save roughly half with pretty identical experience 🤷🏻♂️
And get a manual
Hi Jay - Please can you tell me where your shirt is from, because I really like it?🕊
Claudio Lugli supply most of them
@@JayEmmOnCars Thanks. I’m on there website now, I cannot find THAT one!🙃
High quality sound is so hard to get right in a small cabin. You need distance and reflections, which bang and Olufsen do great in their higher end automotive applications. The home HiFi experience values direct sound much more than reflected, which is why you'd think it's easy to make high quality sound in a small space. The midrange and midbass speakers need special positioning to avoid cancellations and peaking, usually by turning them slightly off axis. Also close proximity subwoofers in small cabins in my experience have little attack and articulation, further detracting from the sound potential. These are all hard problems to solve, if not impossible under a strict budget.
For sure, but strict budget they werent on. And there are some real fundamentals they missed - the components just arent good
Poor decision making done by Toyota when it came to this car. Could've been so much more like the concept they showed us, sitting in a higher price bracket with more performance without BMW intervention.
If $40k to $50k Mark iv supra didn't sell, what makes you think $100k supra would?
Still can’t believe Toyota did this to the MK5 Supra.
I have a love-hate relationship with this vehicle as a Toyota enthusiast and longtime Toyota owner this car just doesn’t sit right with me. I love the fact that SUPRA came back but I’m not in love with the fact of how it made its return. It looks like a mistake inside and out. Your absolutely right Toyota played it too safe... They took no risk thus no rewards. From some angles it looks ok… other angles it looks downright odd.
Great review
Jay, if the Supra is 5cm wider then a Cayman and 1cm taller then the Cayman, it means that relative to their height the Supra is proportionally wider then the Caymen, So what do you mean when saying its not wide and its too tall? is it a design/perception thing?
So I checked.. The Supra is practically the same with and height as the Porsche 911...
Good video 📹
I was already thinking Z4 coupe before you mentioned it. Bit of a disappointment compared to the GR Yaris and new GR86. If they do revise it eventually, I hope the styling follows the approach taken when going from the GT86 (slow, not pretty) to the GR86 (brisk, pretty), and they fix the steering. Nevermind the Jag or the Aston, why would I choose this car over a front-engined Corvette, other than RHD?
If it wasn't covered in fake vents I'd like it more, plus it really needs a manual option.
So I should keep my e86 Z4 M coupe? 🇨🇦
I did not know that it had mcphersons on the front even my 88 supra has dual wish and after your review ive decided im not gonna dream to get one when im older il just get a gr yaris and keep my old supra and love it but i would love to drive one
That's the curse of many bmw and Porsche cars. Expensive but still struts, Z4 platform is struts so this being shared would led to this