Thank you for going deep into this topic. Your podcast has helped me to get away from feeling guilty all the time to resting I the finished work of Christ.
As Pastors, how that you distinguish between those who are in Christ (battle against sin) and those outside Christ (living in their flesh). Because the Scriptures says that they are all together and look alike. They have the same outward appearance (profession of faith, church attendance, etc...). Many thanks.
J.I. Packer uses this kind of description in his book Knowing God (my paraphrase): The freedom that we have in Christ is not freedom to do whatever we want. The freedom that we have in Christ is freedom to do as we ought (to obey God, to do what pleases God). And now that we are regenerated we can do what we ought because we want to, not simply because the written law tells us we should. But how are we to know what pleases or displeases God, or what constitutes obedience or disobedience. Yes, we are to be led by the spirit, but my interpretation of what the spirit is leading me to do is often fuzzy and influenced by my remaining sinful nature (Rom 7). It is far better to have the written record from God which tells me exactly how he defines obedience and disobedience. I am to be led by the spirit, but my "being lead by the spirit" does not operate independently from or supersede God's written word. The written word is the standard that judges whether the leading I feel is really from God or from me.
I am new to reformed theology. I like what I've heard so far about the law gospel distinction, and the three uses of the law. But I'm having trouble reconciling what the apostles decided in Acts 15. They gave the gentiles four simple requirements, and it seems to imply that there were no requirements beyond that. Why did the apostles not tell them that after you are regenerated you should use God's law as a guide for your behavior?
You guys make a very good point about Piper (around 30:38 - 30:59). And I agree with you, absolutely. But I can't help but have a question in my mind. Why is he getting paid? We now have a situation where A GUY IS GETTING PAID TO DAMAGE THE BODY. And all kinds of this stuff is going on now ... i.e. men getting in pulpits, not dotting the i's or crossing the t's and end up sending messages that create confusion and hurt and damage and actually give the enemy a platform to vex God's people potentially for years. WHY ARE THEY GETTING PAID? AND WHAT IS THE CRITERIA FOR A MAN BEING CONSIDERED UNQUALIFIED AND DISQUALIFIED? I think I could make an argument that this is worse than the man in 1 Corinthians sleeping with his mother-in-law. At least that guy's foolishness is evident to all and everyone knows not to go down that road. But people assume these things are from God and take in and absorb poison.
I live by faith in the Son of God .. 6:01 Galatians 2:19 For through [r]the Law I died to [s]the Law, so that I might live for God. ) What you're proposing is an incoherent system that the scripture does not provide .. At my 6 minute timestamp he says we look to the law to know how to live but the scripture says we died to the law that we might live for God the very opposite... Paul said when he had a living conceptualization to the law it produced every manner of desire and sin in him in terms of covetousness.. Romans 7:8 But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me [m]coveting of every kind; for apart [n]from the Law sin is dead. 9I was once alive apart [o]from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died; 10and this commandment, which was [p]to result in life, proved [q]to result in death for me; 11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it, killed me. ) Using terms like 1 and 2 and three uses of the law is verbal trickery to just keep people under law conceptualization which will only produce the power of sin.. This is the galatian error gospel repackaged to Keep people from walking in the Spirit through law conceptualisation... I really liked your guys and your proclamations of grace in the past but you are deviating from it or maybe now I'm just getting a more clear picture of your theology..As you said in your video this is serious stuff...
Would encourage you to do some more research on this, I don’t think you fully understand the position. To be under law means that you are condemned by it. We are not saying people are under law. That’s why we say it’s a guide and cannot condemn us. This is a very old position.
@@THEOCAST I don't think you understand fully what the grace of God does in the human heart and mind independent from law 1 2 OR 3.. Galatians 2:19 For through [r]the Law I died to [s]the Law, so that I might live for God. ) Sorry to be redundant with posting that verse but you say that the law is a guide to live by the scripture says I died to the law that I might live for God... What you're saying is once a person is justified and has a not guilty verdict then they live with law as a guide no reference to the Spirit who leads and guides into all truth .. The Galatian error is having begun in the Spirit they now have law conceptualization thinking this is what makes them perfect through personal adherence to it as their guide.. Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun [d]by the Spirit, are you now [e]being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you [f]suffer so many things in vain-if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works [g]miracles among you, do it by works of [h]the Law, or by hearing [i]with faith?) They thought they were being made perfect through the law through an ongoing basis not recognizing what Christ crucified had accomplished... Hebrews 10:14 ( For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified ) Because the Galatians had law conceptualization it was producing all kinds of ungodliness and factions and emulations and strife because they were now not drinking from the supply of the Spirit as their guide which is ongoing conceptualizations of the gospel and its clarifications of who we are in Christ Justified, righteous, holy in His sight on a daily basis for the rest of our lives independent from law performance and it's these conceptualizations of God's grace that teach us to deny ungodliness that sin is put to death in our members through the spirit not through law conceptualization because that will only produce the power of sin in peoples lives... 1 Corinthians 15:56 the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law; ) You're literally telling people if you have a sin problem look to the law as a moral guide to help you which is like throwing gasoline on a fire and will only produce the problem that you're trying to solve.. The only restraining power of sin is the grace of God which is not the law the grace of God is reiterations and clarifications and ongoing consistent proclamations of who we are in Christ so people are walking in faith and in the Spirit and the work of grace will do its work independent from law and human effort...
@@thefreemangirl Your comment is antinomian. Even though believers are no longer under the law for justification and salvation, we were justified in order that we might be graciously, gradually sanctified and that means being brought into conformity with Christ and His holy law.
@@carmensiekierke3579 why was the law given? The law was given to increase the trespass. Sin in us seizes on the commands and sin abounds. That's true for the third use of the law as well. The purpose of the law comes to an end in Christ. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe, Romans 10:4. The law has been fulfilled for us by Christ, and fulfilled in us by faith. The law will either have us in pride, despair, or apathy. For me it was despair. Until I read Romans 7 , and the Spirit released me , my conscience, from the law. Now I have the Holy Spirit as my guide. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set me free from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:2. The gospel sanctifies us: your sins are forgiven and you are holy for Jesus' sake. When our minds are set on Christ's obedience to the law & the cross our minds are set on the Spirit. When our minds are set on our obedience to the law they are set on the flesh. Romans 7 Since I am speaking to those who know the law, brothers and sisters, don’t you know that the law rules over someone as long as he lives? 2 For example, a married woman is legally bound to her husband while he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law regarding the husband. 3 So then, if she is married to another man while her husband is living, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law. Then, if she is married to another man, she is not an adulteress. 4 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in relation to the law through the body of Christ so that you may belong to another. You belong to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions aroused through the law were working in us to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law. Grace & peace through Christ.
And explaining the three uses of the law, in referencing the second use, you said that God punishes us if we do not keep the law. It is my understanding that Christians, to whom I assume you are referring, are not punished by God. Disciplined, yes, but not punished. Am I understanding you correctly?
As someone who was in a law emphasis congregation, and has embraced the truth of the gospel; salvation in Christ alone, by grace alone, by faith alone, I am somewhat disappointed by some of the distinctions that are used by you as it pertains to the law. For example, when you use the terms ceremonial law and moral law, you are contributing to the man-made dichotomy resulting in the unscriptural concept of two laws. God gave Israel one law; a comprehensive system that dealt with every aspect of Jewish life. So yes, there were aspects of the law that were ceremonial, moral, civil,dietary, agricultural, and the list goes on. Therefore, when the Apostle Paul said "we are not under law but under grace". (Romans 6:15) or Galatians 3:25 " But after faith has come, we are no longer under a school master (the law). Those two statements are abundantly clear that the law had fulfilled it's function and became obsolete ( Hebrews 8:13). I am not an antinomian. What law am I under? All that Christ has revealed through His Apostles whom He commissioned to preached His gospel. Thank you.
It's not just John Piper but also celebrity pastors like John MacArthur and his Lordship Salvation message. Having written off the law of God as a dispensationalist, he confuses people by his message on total lordship as a condition for salvation. The only problem is he himself still sins. If he had totally given himself over to the total lordship of Jesus in his life he would never sin again. He would have achieved sinless perfection. He omits the Gospel and places an unbearable burden on people that even he cannot keep. This is the kind of preaching that destroys people and can get people to hate God, as Luther did before he realized what the Gospel is!
You fellows constantly use made up terms to support your prejudices. That will not hold up well for you in the long run. Not a single Bible writer supports your distinctions of “moral Law” and “ceremonial Law.” Jesus said that “The Law” will be in undiminished effect as long as heaven and earth exist. You spin a tremendous diminishment in your teaching. What you say is not what He said. You speak often of “three uses of the Law.” Torah has only two uses. It demonstrates God’s holiness, and it tells how He wants Israel to live. But wait, you think He abandoned Israel and reneged on all His promises he gave to the family He called to be separate from all the world. Please show me a single passage in which God promised to redeem anyone other than Israel. If you can do so, I will embrace your “replacement theology.”
Thank you for going deep into this topic. Your podcast has helped me to get away from feeling guilty all the time to resting I the finished work of Christ.
Thanks for sharing!
We have a completed salvation in heavenly places. Abiding there is a gift from God.
Thanks guys, definitely sharing the link:) may God bless this ministry. God bless
Believers don't love others just because we are commanded to; we love others because God first loved us. -Dustin Benge
As Pastors, how that you distinguish between those who are in Christ (battle against sin) and those outside Christ (living in their flesh). Because the Scriptures says that they are all together and look alike. They have the same outward appearance (profession of faith, church attendance, etc...).
Many thanks.
The law is a tutor. To convict and make us flee to Christ.
Law to the proud. Gospel to the brokenhearted. -Martin Luther
J.I. Packer uses this kind of description in his book Knowing God (my paraphrase): The freedom that we have in Christ is not freedom to do whatever we want. The freedom that we have in Christ is freedom to do as we ought (to obey God, to do what pleases God). And now that we are regenerated we can do what we ought because we want to, not simply because the written law tells us we should.
But how are we to know what pleases or displeases God, or what constitutes obedience or disobedience. Yes, we are to be led by the spirit, but my interpretation of what the spirit is leading me to do is often fuzzy and influenced by my remaining sinful nature (Rom 7).
It is far better to have the written record from God which tells me exactly how he defines obedience and disobedience. I am to be led by the spirit, but my "being lead by the spirit" does not operate independently from or supersede God's written word. The written word is the standard that judges whether the leading I feel is really from God or from me.
I am new to reformed theology. I like what I've heard so far about the law gospel distinction, and the three uses of the law. But I'm having trouble reconciling what the apostles decided in Acts 15. They gave the gentiles four simple requirements, and it seems to imply that there were no requirements beyond that. Why did the apostles not tell them that after you are regenerated you should use God's law as a guide for your behavior?
You guys make a very good point about Piper (around 30:38 - 30:59). And I agree with you, absolutely. But I can't help but have a question in my mind. Why is he getting paid? We now have a situation where A GUY IS GETTING PAID TO DAMAGE THE BODY. And all kinds of this stuff is going on now ... i.e. men getting in pulpits, not dotting the i's or crossing the t's and end up sending messages that create confusion and hurt and damage and actually give the enemy a platform to vex God's people potentially for years. WHY ARE THEY GETTING PAID? AND WHAT IS THE CRITERIA FOR A MAN BEING CONSIDERED UNQUALIFIED AND DISQUALIFIED?
I think I could make an argument that this is worse than the man in 1 Corinthians sleeping with his mother-in-law. At least that guy's foolishness is evident to all and everyone knows not to go down that road. But people assume these things are from God and take in and absorb poison.
That third use is the reason why the SDA preach sabbath over Jesus.
I live by faith in the Son of God .. 6:01 Galatians 2:19 For through [r]the Law I died to [s]the Law, so that I might live for God. ) What you're proposing is an incoherent system that the scripture does not provide .. At my 6 minute timestamp he says we look to the law to know how to live but the scripture says we died to the law that we might live for God the very opposite...
Paul said when he had a living conceptualization to the law it produced every manner of desire and sin in him in terms of covetousness..
Romans 7:8 But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me [m]coveting of every kind; for apart [n]from the Law sin is dead. 9I was once alive apart [o]from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died; 10and this commandment, which was [p]to result in life, proved [q]to result in death for me; 11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it, killed me. )
Using terms like 1 and 2 and three uses of the law is verbal trickery to just keep people under law conceptualization which will only produce the power of sin..
This is the galatian error gospel repackaged to Keep people from walking in the Spirit through law conceptualisation...
I really liked your guys and your proclamations of grace in the past but you are deviating from it or maybe now I'm just getting a more clear picture of your theology..As you said in your video this is serious stuff...
Would encourage you to do some more research on this, I don’t think you fully understand the position. To be under law means that you are condemned by it. We are not saying people are under law. That’s why we say it’s a guide and cannot condemn us. This is a very old position.
@@THEOCAST
I don't think you understand fully what the grace of God does in the human heart and mind independent from law 1 2 OR 3..
Galatians 2:19 For through [r]the Law I died to [s]the Law, so that I might live for God. ) Sorry to be redundant with posting that verse but you say that the law is a guide to live by the scripture says I died to the law that I might live for God...
What you're saying is once a person is justified and has a not guilty verdict then they live with law as a guide no reference to the Spirit who leads and guides into all truth ..
The Galatian error is having begun in the Spirit they now have law conceptualization thinking this is what makes them perfect through personal adherence to it as their guide..
Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun [d]by the Spirit, are you now [e]being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you [f]suffer so many things in vain-if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works [g]miracles among you, do it by works of [h]the Law, or by hearing [i]with faith?)
They thought they were being made perfect through the law through an ongoing basis not recognizing what Christ crucified had accomplished...
Hebrews 10:14 ( For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified )
Because the Galatians had law conceptualization it was producing all kinds of ungodliness and factions and emulations and strife because they were now not drinking from the supply of the Spirit as their guide which is ongoing conceptualizations of the gospel and its clarifications of who we are in Christ Justified, righteous, holy in His sight on a daily basis for the rest of our lives independent from law performance and it's these conceptualizations of God's grace that teach us to deny ungodliness that sin is put to death in our members through the spirit not through law conceptualization because that will only produce the power of sin in peoples lives...
1 Corinthians 15:56 the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law; )
You're literally telling people if you have a sin problem look to the law as a moral guide to help you which is like throwing gasoline on a fire and will only produce the problem that you're trying to solve..
The only restraining power of sin is the grace of God which is not the law the grace of God is reiterations and clarifications and ongoing consistent proclamations of who we are in Christ so people are walking in faith and in the Spirit and the work of grace will do its work independent from law and human effort...
If Christians have to obey the law they are under the law, and under condemnation.
@@thefreemangirl Your comment is antinomian. Even though believers are no longer under the law for justification and salvation, we were justified in order that we might be graciously, gradually sanctified and that means being brought into conformity with Christ and His holy law.
@@carmensiekierke3579 why was the law given? The law was given to increase the trespass. Sin in us seizes on the commands and sin abounds. That's true for the third use of the law as well. The purpose of the law comes to an end in Christ. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe, Romans 10:4. The law has been fulfilled for us by Christ, and fulfilled in us by faith. The law will either have us in pride, despair, or apathy. For me it was despair. Until I read Romans 7 , and the Spirit released me , my conscience, from the law.
Now I have the Holy Spirit as my guide. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set me free from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:2.
The gospel sanctifies us: your sins are forgiven and you are holy for Jesus' sake. When our minds are set on Christ's obedience to the law & the cross our minds are set on the Spirit. When our minds are set on our obedience to the law they are set on the flesh.
Romans 7
Since I am speaking to those who know the law, brothers and sisters, don’t you know that the law rules over someone as long as he lives? 2 For example, a married woman is legally bound to her husband while he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law regarding the husband. 3 So then, if she is married to another man while her husband is living, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law. Then, if she is married to another man, she is not an adulteress.
4 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in relation to the law through the body of Christ so that you may belong to another. You belong to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions aroused through the law were working in us to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.
Grace & peace through Christ.
Muchas muchas muchas
And explaining the three uses of the law, in referencing the second use, you said that God punishes us if we do not keep the law. It is my understanding that Christians, to whom I assume you are referring, are not punished by God. Disciplined, yes, but not punished. Am I understanding you correctly?
As someone who was in a law emphasis congregation, and has embraced the truth of the gospel; salvation in Christ alone, by grace alone, by faith alone, I am somewhat disappointed by some of the distinctions that are used by you as it pertains to the law. For example, when you use the terms ceremonial law and moral law, you are contributing to the man-made dichotomy resulting in the unscriptural concept of two laws. God gave Israel one law; a comprehensive system that dealt with every aspect of Jewish life. So yes, there were aspects of the law that were ceremonial, moral, civil,dietary, agricultural, and the list goes on. Therefore, when the Apostle Paul said "we are not under law but under grace". (Romans 6:15) or Galatians 3:25 " But after faith has come, we are no longer under a school master (the law). Those two statements are abundantly clear that the law had fulfilled it's function and became obsolete ( Hebrews 8:13). I am not an antinomian. What law am I under? All that Christ has revealed through His Apostles whom He commissioned to preached His gospel. Thank you.
It's not just John Piper but also celebrity pastors like John MacArthur and his Lordship Salvation message. Having written off the law of God as a dispensationalist, he confuses people by his message on total lordship as a condition for salvation. The only problem is he himself still sins. If he had totally given himself over to the total lordship of Jesus in his life he would never sin again. He would have achieved sinless perfection. He omits the Gospel and places an unbearable burden on people that even he cannot keep. This is the kind of preaching that destroys people and can get people to hate God, as Luther did before he realized what the Gospel is!
You fellows constantly use made up terms to support your prejudices. That will not hold up well for you in the long run.
Not a single Bible writer supports your distinctions of “moral Law” and “ceremonial Law.” Jesus said that “The Law” will be in undiminished effect as long as heaven and earth exist. You spin a tremendous diminishment in your teaching. What you say is not what He said.
You speak often of “three uses of the Law.” Torah has only two uses. It demonstrates God’s holiness, and it tells how He wants Israel to live.
But wait, you think He abandoned Israel and reneged on all His promises he gave to the family He called to be separate from all the world.
Please show me a single passage in which God promised to redeem anyone other than Israel. If you can do so, I will embrace your “replacement theology.”
How are we to follow all 613 commandments of the law if Jesus was the sacrifice for parts of the law? Which parts of the law do we follow today?