My $6,065 Drum Set Is RUINED
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ส.ค. 2023
- Routers, sandpaper, screwdrivers and more - you could use these tools to quickly wreck your drum kit. And in the eyes of Ludwig, my USA made Classic Maple drums are done for. But to me, they're STILL the best drums in the world.
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Derek Mantz at MKE Drum Co. in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, has worked on my drums for many years. He's modified bearing edges, fixed issues on vintage snares, repaired floor toms, and even built me entirely new drums from bare DW shells. In this video, I talk about how he turned my stock Ludwig kit into some of the best drums I've ever used in my life. Plus, I'll talk about how he repaired a WFL snare drum that I thought was completely done for.
Drum audio was captured with two Universal Audio Apollo x8p interfaces using 1073 preamp modeling.
Mics include:
- SE Electronics V-Kick (Kick In)
- Dr. Alien Smith Alien8 (Kick Out)
- Shure Unidyne III SM57 (Snare Top) - Rode NT55 w/ Cardioid Capsule (Snare Top)
- Audio-Technica ATM650 (Snare Bottom)
- Sennheiser MD-421 (Each Tom)
- AKG C414 TLII Pair (Overheads)
- Apex 210B Ribbon into Soyuz Launcher (Room)
- Shure 588SB (Vocal)
I use Logic Pro X, Waves Audio plugins, and I believe that all drums are good drums (even roto toms).
Oh, and that cool mic cable? It comes from Sorry Cables in LA. - www.sorrycables.com/ Questions?
I do lessons on drumming, recording drums, social media, and more. Plus, I've been working with drum companies on all sorts of cool stuff. Check out my website! And you can always find me at timbdrums@gmail.com or hit me up on my other socials.
Website - www.timbaltes.com/
Instagram - / timbofromkeno
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Facebook - / timbofromkeno
Reddit - / timbofromkenosha
TikTok - / timbofromkeno - เพลง
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What ⚠COMPLAINT⚠ do you have about your drum kit? Put it in the comments and I'll see if I can help you fix it!
SOOoo, there's a lot to unpack here, about 5 years of pure repressed anger against my drums.
I have a Sonor AQ1 (birch shell) kit with the 20" kick.
Snare throw-off had the worst tolerances I've ever seen, the tension knob was a 2 hander when the snares were engaged. (I sold that drum immediately, super boxy even with good heads and wires)
2000 hardware that came with it was also mediocre, I sold all that too.
On cymbal stands, the pin fixing the cymbal tilter to the boom arm almost came out on one stand and I've had to hammer it back in and both of them wobbled.
Radius rod on the hi-hat stand was deformed so the chain wouldn't pull straight (and I tried bending it with force but over time it shifted back to its original position), inner rod was also bent (that's my fault though).
Snare stand wouldn't stay put at the angle I set it in, it would always move towards me when I started to rimshot or pressed my hands on the snare to stretch the head (I tried reversing the mechanism so the wing nut would press directly on the basket part, but then It was impossible to loosen without pliers).
The pedal had no weight in the beater and its shaft was smaller than normal so the holder had a smaller hole and other beaters were always a forced fit (not to mention the classic wing screw under the foot board which is always a fumble).
The shells are good BUT the bearing edges and hoops make them a NIGHTMARE to tune and make them STAY in tune (to be noted that I'm far from the best at tuning, but I've always found it easier on other kits even in the same price range).
The hoops are 1.2 millimeter (i could be wrong here) triple flange and I've had a couple warped ones across all the AQ series (I also own an AQ2 snare), which I've had to throw away.
2 years in I also discovered a small chip/split right on the middle of the floor tom's edge (bottom side) which has made my life a lot harder when trying to tune quickly.
Oh, if only I had someone in my area who knows how to re-do edges...
@@gabrielemartino2466 Gabriele, I'm so sorry this kit has been such a pain. That's terrible! A lot of this seems like manufacturing issues or issues that would've happened in shipment. And I would definitely work with the retailer you purchased the kit from to get this fixed. You may even want to go so far as to email Sonor and try to rectify the situation through them.
The AQ1 is an import drum set. And knowing that there are two main hardware factories making just about everyone's stands and pedals, I'd guess your issue here is with QC too. Just another reason to get in touch with your retailer or Sonor directly.
If you're struggling to find a local drum builder who can help you with bearing edges, I would recommend looking up the Facebook Group called Custom Drum Builders. There are builders from all over the world there. and even if you can't find someone in your town, I'd guess there's got to be someone in your country or an adjacent country.
I hope this information is helpful! : )
I would probably want to rework the edges, although I would probably buy a model that comes with the "right" edges.
Reworking includes sanding flat (on glass) as shown in your video. That would be a lot of work for a kit.
It’s a lot of work, but it’s totally worth it. Gives you the best mix of vintage tone and modern easy tuning!
LOOK MAM IM BENNY GREB!
This was me from 2011-2013 😂
hahahaha SAME!
Absolutely stellar content. What a time to be a drummer. Really appreciated the details behind your sound. I’m having Derek work on a kit from ‘85. Need to pay him a visit. Great stuff Tim !! All the best my friend.
I'm so glad you connected with Derek at the show this year. Isn't he just the best? What kit is he working on? I don't remember you telling me about this. I'm so pumped for you!
@@timbofromkeno Derek is the best. It’s my first real kit I got , ROC drums. Has a Yamaha type mount for the rack toms. Philippine mahogany wood. Supposedly. Needs a re wrap. Bearing edge work. Sentimental kit, my late dad and went halves on it.
@@adsph I’ve seen those before! I hope they turn out cool. Honestly, I like the old Philippine mahogany shells. They sound pretty good! And if you get a cool wrap on those puppies, then you’ll have another cool kit to add to the basement!
@@timbofromkeno that’s the hope. Something old but different. 5 piece. 22x14 kick, 12x8 & 13x9 rack Tom, 16x16 floor tom.
Cool! I did something sorta like that with my current Tama set. The set is from the late 90s/early 2000s when those silly power tom sizes were still popular ... so I had someone cut the 10 and 12 inch toms down to more traditional sizes. They're much more awesome now (and fit better with how I set things up). And ... it was a Derek that did it! The Derek that owns Treehouse Drums.
Gotta love any good drum maker named Derek! LOL That's awesome. I love those old Tama drums, but my shoulders hate the ergonomics (or lack thereof) with power toms. With your kit cut down, I'll bet that puppy sounds killer!
“Look Mom, I’m Benny Greb!” Hahahaha!
😂😂😂
Hows tuning stability with those thinner hoops and hitting harder? I always assumed a bigger hoop would help keep the drum head from loosening
That’s a good question! To be very honest, I’ve had less stability from diecast hoops. 😂😂 I think lug count and tuning style determines so much, though.
A six or eight lug snare at a higher tuning (as long as the head is seated and worn in a bit) should hold tuning pretty dang well. Low tuned toms that have been broken in are the same way.
New resonant tom heads seem to be the biggest pain in the butt with detuning for me, but once they’re broken in well, it’s basically set it and forget it!
Absolutely with you on the thinner hoops. The physical sensation of laying into a snare with triple flange hoops is just much more satisfying. Especially if it's a heavier shell. (Not to mention that it sounds better to my ears)
It probably goes back to the physical construction of the hoop. Die-Cast (and similar hoops) are much more rigid, which means they have less give overall. This changes both the tuning behavior and the feel - I'm guessing that's why they seel to "resist" heavy rimshots much more than thinner variants.
I've never thought of keeping an eye on the difference of feel between that light hoop on a thin shell versus a thick one. I guess I've gotta track down a Sonor snare or something similar now - FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES! 🤣
I really like the way you frame that around diecast hoops. They do seem to "resist" rimshots, don't they? I've got this book titled "Drum Sound and Drum Tuning" that approaches this stuff from a scientific perspective. I'll have to see what they say about this stuff in there!!
@@timbofromkeno I've used both a Ludwig Acrolite and a Sonor Prolite extensively over the past few years, and while they are fantastic drums, I did notice they felt somewhat "wonky"/unstable compared to my heavier snares (Black Beauty and Pearl Jupiter, respectively). I'm guessing it has something to do with the weight, heavier drums probably move around less if you hit them hard.
Oh and please do, I would love to hear your thoughts on them. Completely overengineered and impossible to carry around (my uni has a few old sonors from the 80's), but they do sound great.
Haha yeah I'm curious what the science on this is as well! I've just spent too much time thinking about this stuff, lol.
@@timtownesschweiger5366 I'll keep you in the loop with my findings! haha Cheers dude!!
"Look Mum, I'm Benny Greb!"😂
Love the edits and of course the content.
My 12 inch tom is slightly too wide for a regular fit of the drumhead. It sits already tight once I went through pain and struggle to get it on. Keeping it in tune is a bit of a pain.
It's a 80s fibre cheapo set which, in spite of this weird tom, sounds way better than I ever could imagine.
Cheers from Germany
lol Thanks for the comment and the kind words. Have you tried Evans heads on that 12” tom? They’ve got a pretty wide collar, so they tend to fit a little less snug on drums like that. Another option might be considering Remo’s “Classic Fit” heads, but they don’t have a wide selection of models there (plus they’re more expensive). Hope this helps!!
@@timbofromkeno Thanks for the response!
I ve put an evans EC2 on it. Before that I ve had a drumtec Meshhead on it which was even worse of a "snug fit". Maybe the shell is warped or something, the reso side was no problem🤔
@@colinfrank9026 There's a guy in France who might be able to fix it if you're into the idea of spending some money to have it done up - facebook.com/stephane.toussaint.56 - He's "Crash Drum Custom" on Facebook too. Super nice guy and he does great work. Otherwise, if you don't mind shipping it to and from the UK, Joe Cox does incredible work too. So, you have some choices!
Timbo, greetings from Washington state. I first found you on an episode of Mike Malone and have been a fan ever since. Your delivery of information is so entertaining. Thank you so much for being here on TH-cam and sharing your wealth of information.
Hey Greg! Thanks so much for all the kind words. Mike is a great guy, and it was a lot of fun to put that video together. And I'm glad you've stuck around to see all the nonsense I'm making over here too! hahaha It's been a long time since I've been out your way, but I stayed in Vancouver (WA) for a hot minute and I used to love regularly stopping by The Trading Musician up in Seattle (worth a trip if you've never been to their drum room upstairs)!
Just came across your videos for the first time. Fellow Ludwig drummer here too. Greatest drums made in my opinion. I never knew Karl Pilkington was a Drummer (19:08)😁. Great video and love your Ludwig Classic Maple kit, love the color too. Cheers from 🇦🇺
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it. More good stuff to come. Cheers dude!
I’m an EQ4 frosted fan too. They now have a UV EQ4 I’m gonna check it out.
I’ve tried it. It’s pretty neat! I still tend to reach for my old trust frosted, though. : )
Do you have footage of the shells edges on a flat surface? Normally they are not flat and wobble.
No, normally they're not. And mine were not either. But if you're re-cutting edges, sometimes things can happen. More often, that flat sanding technique is much more helpful if you're re-cutting and "trueing" bearing edges on vintage drums, as that wood has had 50 years to dry out and 50 years to be hit, throw around, etc.
It the movie people ever need a John Candy voice over, you're it. Spoken with love from another Wisconsin dude.
Ah man. I appreciate that. John Candy is definitely a hero of mine. Such a legend!!
To me, the Beatles, from Revolver through The White Album, has the best drum sounds to me. Love that sound!!!
That is an ESSENTIAL drum sound for sure. I love that Ludwig is still using the same machines that made Ringo's drums to make the USA made drums today. It's pretty wild!
@@timbofromkeno I know! Pretty awesome! They made Ringo's, Buddy's, yours and mine! Super cool!
Sometimes experiments are just worth it, you were unhappy with how the drums were stock and you made them yours!
Exactly! And trust me, it takes having decades of knowledge to know with great certainty that this kind of experiment is going to pay off. So, thank goodness, it felt a little more like a foreseen outcome than a stroke of luck! 🤣
@@timbofromkeno oh yeah I bet ! Right now I'm in the midst of an experiment of taking one of my old beat up kits and vibra-fibing it ! If it gets screwed up the damage would be exponential but it could also pay well off if it goes well !
@@marvinhanson9391 Nice! Let me know how it turns out!!
You're a great communicator, educator, and storyteller.
Thanks so much, AF. I appreciate you coming back to the content again and again and again. It means the world!
Im loving your content dude as a massive drum nerd you really going in depth to explain things and i really appreciate it because your videos are everything i want from a drum content creator. Keep up the good work :D
Man, thank you so much for the kind words. I'm so glad you dig this stuff. Many more goodies to come!!
You can’t “hear” the wood. You hear the shells influence on the head. The sound comes from the heads.
I just tried to simplify that language, but you are completely correct. : )
@timbofromkeno I understand my stance could be interpreted as semantics but many drummers actually believe the sound we hear "throbs" from the shell and the head only activates the vibration of the shell which is completely false. Great Channel. I love your enthusiasm!
@@Assimilator702 I know what you're saying for sure. I think people get so deep into thining stuff like, "Welllll, if I do one ply of walnut and two plies of this and another inner ply of that, then I'm going to get this very specific result." And for drums (particularly plied), that's not true at all. I totally agree with you there on that sort of false fanaticism. To me, I hear a difference between soft woods and hard woods, but then it just gets so minute after that. The biggest thing is shaping that bearing edge to whatever the drummer wants it to be. And that's totally because the edge is going to determine how that head is going to resonate!
And thanks so much for the kind words. I appreciate it!
@@timbofromkeno Ok it looks like we’re on the same page. I had a fanatical view towards wood species in my younger years. I soon realized that various parts of the shell construction were more important. Also if you speak with a custom shell builder they will admit wood species matters the least and the major differences are between shells made of hard woods and softer woods. I honestly believe Pearl and Yamaha are the major contributors to the hybrid shell hype. Pearl even more so with their Masterworks program and 100% customizable shell recipes. Now all the companies have followed suit since it’s an “industry standard” to offer a hybrid shell.
@@Assimilator702 100%. Drums, man. To me, I'd rather keep it all simple and focus on the thing we're supposed to be focusing one--DRUMMING! 🤣
Sounds like you should've taken a pass on the Ludwig classics and bought a set of Gretsch USA customs....just sayin'
Those are fantastic drums too, but I could never afford them. hahaha I tend to like the triple flange hoops over the diecast stuff too. Just a personal preference! But if someone out there wants to make me some 1.6 mm 5-lug 10 and 12" hoops, I'd give that Gretsch USA stuff a go (after I win the lottery lol).
@@timbofromkeno Thanks man! your video is funny, good work! Also, good point about Gretsch USA's having 5 lugs. One of my sets is a USA custom. I like the dryness and control of the die cast hoops on the toms but I wanted more sustain from the matching snare, I put a flanged hoop on the snare. It opened up the drum nicely. I'm 63 years old and I'll never get over the sound of a Gretsch 12" tom-tom. I heard this sound on so many pop and jazz recordings from the 60's and 70's. I fell in love. That said, I also like drums with a sharp edge and thicker shells also. They seem to work better with louder genres of music especially when playing live. Keep drumming my friend and thanks for sharing!!!
@@jeffreyalexander7504 Despite our differences, I know we both enjoy all this drum stuff. And believe me, I love a 12' Gretsch tom too. Art Blakey is a hero of mine. Cheers dude!!
Brooklyns could be an option.
@@holmes4drums Those are wonderful drums!
I am enjoying your videos thoroughly. Your sense of humour just cracks me up. And your insight to what we call our passion, it is golden.
Ps. You're NEVER too old or experienced to learn.
So thank you.
Greetings from Port Elizabeth, South Africa 🇿🇦
Derrick, man, thank you so much for all the kind words. I'm glad you get a kick out of this stuff. Sending my best from Chicago!!
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Derek is the man. We truly are blessed to have him around Southeastern Wisconsin.
I’m 100% with you on that!!
Great video Amigo! My parents had a fridge that same green. It looks much better on the kit!
Thanks John. I can't imagine a fridge in this color, but I'll bet it was a statement piece! 🤣
The UV2 is one of my favorite heads especially on toms too
Also music go round FTW. I go to the one in Cockeysville, MD constantly.
Love that head! And man, I need to get to the MD store one day. And next time you find yourself in the midwest, you NEED to check out the Greenfield store southwests of Milwaukee. It's insane.
@@timbofromkeno I’ve never been to Milwaukee but like you said, if I happen to be in greenfield i’ll surely pop in like 👀
💵❓
@@Ted_Swayinghill 😂❤️👊
I agree that everyone needs a Derek! There is truly nothing the man can't do. Except maybe gravity blasts, but I'm sure he'll learn!
I'll teach the whole family next time I'm visiting! 🤣
I build and restore drums it’s actually not all that difficult with a bit a common sense, space and the right tools. I’ve restored many vintage drums, modified intermediate drums to looks and sound high end and built new drums from Keller shells. Fun stuff!
I totally agree that doing a lot of this stuff isn't too difficult after you put in the hours (and the dollars to get the equipment lol). Glad you've dug into this too!
Derek just brings such a deep knowledge and reverence to the craft that I don't see in a lot of builders or restoration folks. And that comes through in the work. I think it's the "wow" factor you can see in some of his projects that literally bring drums back from the dead!
TIM! When I get my snare to sound like I want it to, snappy & tight, it seems to lose any personality and just ends up sounding dead. I want life, but I want it TIGHT. HELP ME!
Tell me more. I'm happy to give my two cents! What kind of snare is it (brand, model, material, size, etc.)? What kinds of heads do you have on it? What kinds of wires do you have on it? And are you using any sort of tuning tools (like a Drum Dial or a TuneBot)?
@@timbofromkeno it’s a vintage Acrolite. 5x14.
I’ve got an Evan’s HD Dry Batter on there and Evan’s 300 Reso.
30 Strand snare wires.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
@@toddthompsonvideography Ahhhhh. Honesty, I think it's the top head. If you want snappy and tight, I'd much rather opt for something like the UV2 and crank that puppy up. OR, for something a little more economical and even more snappy, I think the G1 Coated might be the ticket.
I'd tune the bottom head pretty tight too. That'll help get that snappy response you're looking for.
What's tough with the Acrolite is the lug count. with only eight points of tension, you're only going to be able to get that thing tuned so high without maxing out the tension on the drum. If you're looking for snappy, tight, high-tuned goodness, you might want to simply find a budget-friendly 10-lug steel drum. Music Go Round has a ton of stuff under 100 bucks and it'll get you what you want with the right heads and wires.
But start with that top head change and a little change in tuning to the bottom head, and I think you're going to get what you want out of that drum. If not, come back and we can troubleshoot some more!
@@timbofromkeno for free??? You are amazing Tim. I will test the head change. Didn’t think about lug count either. Is there a specific snare you’d recommend for this sound? Even a lil on the pricey side?
@@toddthompsonvideography Always happy to help! If you’ve got a little extra money to spend, maybe try out a 14x5 Supraphonic or a 14x5 Black Beauty. I prefer the Black Beauty, but I’m a 6.5” snare guy. And a 14x6.5” Black Beauty can for sure give you snappy and tight without losing the personality, and I think the extra depth actually helps with that.
If you’re looking for something in the middle money-wise, check out the Ludwig Universal Black Brass or the Pork Pie BOB. Both are also fantastic!
GRADAMA TIMBOO! There's no doubt she shreds
She is the shreddiest of shredders! hahahaha
I sold my first drum set to Music Go Round in Kenosha! It was a blonde Vex 5 piece maple set. A no name kit that punched above its pay grade, in my opinion. I miss that set.
What a small world, Sheila! I worked there from 2008 to 2013. I wonder if we ever ran into each other!
@timbofromkeno I can pretty much guarantee we did. I moved to Hawaii in 2011. Preceding that move, I lived in Lake Geneva, so I frequented Cascio Interstate in New Berlin, M-G-R in Kenosha, and that other music store I can't remember the name of in Kenosha. You know, the one across highway 50 and maybe a block or two away from Music Go Round. Plus, surely you went to Drummerfest at Cascio, yeah? That was like Christmas Day for me.
@@skfootit You're thinking of Music Center in Kenosha. Yeah, I used to go there a lot too. And I FOR SURE went to Drummerfest when Cascio was still around. I miss that store so dearly. It was such a great place to hang for drummers!
@@timbofromkeno It's gone?!
@@skfootit Yeahhhh. Seems like business the last three or four years just got so bad that they couldn't keep the doors open. Such a shame. Someone bought the name, so it's still an entity out there online, but the whole shop, the staff, and Drummerfest are all gone.
Get into the nitty gritty - Nacho
Yes!! 😂😂😂
Love your channel. Awesome drumming Your funny too. 😂
Thanks Greggy! 😂👊
The standard from cars is if it is super-rare, you will be drawn and quartered for modifications short of repairs (unless you were a part of the original engineering team).
Otherwise, this is little more than race modification 😬
At this point, it's upon you to create genre defining groove to justify the mods (no pressure) so that Ludwig gives you your own artist series (suggested name Bad Man Baltes series).
Thoughts on how Age of Quarrel changed changed the recording of drums (more room mics)?
I literally make jokes all the time about how Harley from the Mags is so tough that the dude's diet is probably just eating bricks at this point. hahahaha I honestly have no idea how that might have impacted things. In Milwaukee, there was a dude named Shane Olivio who basically created the norm for the recorded metalcore sound in the Midwest. And even today, you can hear the influence of that kind of sound in new bands like A Mourning Star. But the room sound specifically, I feel like hair metal set the stage for more reverb, and a room mic was an easy way to do that without having to shell out big money for a rack DSP back in the day!
And dude, we need to make the BMB Ludwig series happen! hahahaha
I just love your videos, very educational and entertaining.
Ah man. Thank you. I really appreciate it!
Talk about angelo badalamenti drum sounds.
I’ll have to look him up!
You forgot Overalls! Tone is in the overalls!!
I’ve heard that! I gotta get a new pair that fits me!! 😂😂👊👊
killer drum sounds dude! and great fuckin playing. Badass
Thank you so much. I appreciate it!! 😁👊
I'm still processing the thought about how ruining something makes it better.
Very fair. hahahaha I've met a lot of collectors who want super pristine, original examples of drums. They want the best chrome, original heads and wires, and not a single thing different with a drum since it left he factory 50+ years ago. And the manufacturer will only honor warranties for drums that stay that way (minus heads and wires). Now, are my drums in pieces and unplayable? No, that'd be a shame. 😂 But even though I've voided the warranty and essentially ruined these drums in the eyes of Ludwig, I've turned this little green kit into one of the meanest drum kits I've ever played. And I don't think you can beat that!
20 YEARS?! That one hurt 😅
We are getting old, my friend!! 😂
@@timbofromkeno feels like yesterday we were hanging out at the beach house.
@@TrunkyJunksun 😭
You can order different baring edge designs from Ludwig when you order a kit, it’s information content was fine but the over dramatic delivery has a lot to be desired, well done .
Yeah, Ludwig implemented that bearing edge option a few years ago - single 45, full roundover, and double 45. They'd thrown around the idea of adding a 45/roundover (though only doing the roundover on a single outer ply), but it seems that hasn't been added to the catalog yet.
I appreciate the feedback on the video. I'm one of the only folks trying to bridge drum nerdery and entertainment (specifically comedy) in such a way that it's family friendly. On Instagram, I've had couples and whole families enjoying my content for years because of the delivery. It's not for everyone, but I have a lot of fun making it and there are a lot of people who do enjoy it. To each their own! : )
share the molly!!!
Omg 😂
I ♥Grandma!!!
She's a legend! hahaha
so why do you hate Derek? 😄
I love Derek! 😂
Brat 🌭
Only in Wisconsin, baby! 🤣
Your kit is anice kit your bass drum does nt sound nice ,its to thin ,it sounds like a Simmons bass drum your snare isn't fat enough your snare should only ring slightly fo gigs , not on videos for social media , MUCH Respect.💛🧡❤️💜💛🧡❤️🌞🌜🌟🌎🙏🌼🌸🌳🌴☺️
I appreciate the feedback. I figure this - if these tones were good enough for Disney, Fox, Warner Records, and Grammy-winning movie soundtracks, then I think they're okay. hahaha Big love atcha, lad!
@@timbofromkeno Hi but Commercial sounds aren't always good for instruments and music . MUCH RESPECT .💛🧡❤️💜💛🧡❤️🌞🌜🌟🌎🙏🌼🌸🌳🌴☺️