My parents simply ignore my atheism. I've told them that if they ever bring up religious superstitions to my son, he'll just think them crazy from then on; losing all credibility with him. I'm no nonsense about it. When your sons sanity is it stake, you can't take chances.
Yeah, see this is funny. Really good comedy respects consent. You consented to be the butt of the joke and invited your mother to join you in laughing at the absurdity. In the example of a similar joke Seth gives in the podcast where the person claimed to have converted, the family were the butt of the joke and did not consent.
A guy I knew years ago lived near Hell, MI, for several years (long before we met). I doubt I'd have known the town existed if not for him. He reckoned the town was named due to how cold it is in winter that it's as cold as whichever level(s) of hell are the frozen ones.
I am so thankful that you are doing what you do. You allow Atheists and Theists an outlet to discuss faith and lack thereof in an environment that cultivates understanding and respect. So many, on both sides, encourage so much negativity and hate toward their "enemy" that you are truly a breath of fresh air.
I think that The Thinking Atheist is one of the best "round table" discussion forums for believers and nonbelievers alike. Seth, you truly present the topics and engage in the conversation in a most humble and sincere way. Many of the "famous" atheists out there have an attitude that often can be taken as angry and arrogant. That is effective for some, but I think most believers are turned off by that. Your demeanor makes us all feel comfortable to talk honestly about faith. Thank you!
At about the hour mark: "Jesus! A week?" It used to take me much, much longer to get over one of these arguments. Now it usually takes only a few days. I am, by nature, really sensitive, which is true of about 15-20% of any "higher animal" population. My deconversion and "coming out", sans support, was extremely difficult.
Kudos to the BYU student that Stands strong in his Disbelief (I was raised In Mormon country although I was Catholic & It is the Mormons & living there as a teenager that Made me become a Free-Thinker) -- Hats off to you & Stay strong & Just be You! Aloha!
We had a leaky basement when I was very young. One April Fools I stood at the top of the basement stairs and yelled the basement was flooding. Dad came running and I could see by the look on his face I'd made a mistake. I took off at a run and didn't come back till supper time!!!. Peace and Love from Canada.
Seth, I have only just found this wonderful channel on the internet today. I have been an avid listener of Christopher Hitchens for a while now and it is encouraging and inspiring to listen to your 'free thinking'. The stories are real, and the problems are all of ours as a race. I only wish that our race, rather than worshiping aspects of life that bare no majesty or light, find light in the worship of our race and companionship. And maybe someday we can all live that free life
I dunno if I'd go so far as to worship humanity, but if you change that to 'respect' then I can get behind that sentiment. What many people don't understand is that humanity is part of a larger ecosystem. A planetary one. Promote any one part of that excessively and the whole will suffer. But we can certainly treat each other better, and treat the whole better.
My dad changed his belief from once saved always saved to I am going to hell when he found out I no longer believe. I think he did that to scare me onto believing again. As if that works. Haha.
My parents think I became an agnostic because of TH-cam atheists. Sometimes they threaten to take away my internet privileges. Sometimes I'm tempted to lie to them and say I want to be a christian again. Not just because I want to use the internet, no, but because I know they think I'm stupid now and they think I'm going to hell. I just don't want to lie. If only hell wasn't a part of this religion so they wouldn't be bothered by this. They're hoping if I learn more about this religion I'll change my mind. They think this is just a phase.
I hope it's going well Dark Splash. Very courageous brother. I can't imagine how it is having to deal with that, I grew up in a christian family, but christian in name only. I hope they end up accepting you for what you are, their son, no matter your belief system
I haven't come out as an atheist yet, but I can already feel the guilt trips the Mormin church places on both the "apostates" and their families. It's well-established LDS doctrine that, if the parents do a good enough job teaching the gospel, the children can't ever leave the church.
I am so glad that my parents don't care that i'm an atheist. Even one of my grandmothers once said that everyone has to decide for themselves about their believes. I was absolutely baffled by that because she went to church on a regular basis and everything. At least she did that when my grandfather was still alive. I'm a bit worried about my muslim flat mate and his girlfriend (who recently figured out, she is a deist) though. I hope, that works out okay.
I was going to comment on how your invisible gun thing was not at all like the argument of hell, then I realized that it was exactly like you said. Very well said my friend.
My dad is a devout catholic, although he doesn't know I'm an atheist for sure yet, he has talked to other family members worrying about my faith. He and I don't have much of a relationship to begin with, and I really don't want to add new tension. Even though I don't have a good relationship with him I still have a great relationship with the rest of that side of my family.
this has probably been pointed out already but the "I don't think Atheists should be considered Americans, this is one nation under God" quote was George Bush senior, not junior. Great episode, always enjoy these.
my mom is part of a pentecostal church...... the things that come out of her mouth make me think "okay, I MUST be adopted..... there's no way I came from someone like her...."
I'm with Gabe. My family and I were completely separate for more than ten years with no contact whatsoever. Now that mother and father are gone, there is again no contact at all with anyone in my family because of their religious beliefs and my choice not to believe in the talking snakes and magic trees. I do not miss them at all. The intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, and irrational beliefs and behaviors - I don't miss that either.
You're right, I wouldn't tell my family if they were religious, that I had suddenly become religious again, because I've seen how much some peoples family hurts to be told in the first place that their kid is an atheist. So to be told again as a joke is really cruel. True admittance of being an atheist shouldn't bring pain and should be fine, but for the time being people know it's not. These people pulling this prank should think about what it would be like to have their kids tell them they're an atheist, then turn round and say "sorry dad I'm still Christian and I'm going to heaven and you're still going to hell"
While I agree 90%, I think your last sentence misses the mark. An atheist parent doesn't think he's really going to hell, or that his child will suffer for eternity for not sharing his beliefs. At most being a Christian limits your worldview and causes inconvenience, but it doesn't subject you to torture, unlike what religious parents think will happen to atheist children.
I felt kinda bad after I was done with my short laugh after that "athiest-gone-religious" april fools joke. I laughed, then I realized, that seems like reopening a really big wound where your parents see that you are going to hell and cannot save you. It must be like watching a cat being run over, then the april fools joke brings it back again just to have it squish into the pavement once more. That's pretty cruel.
The prank was, indeed, cruel. But how cruel is it for the parents to tell their children that they can accept that the children are going to hell, accept the very idea that their own children DESERVE to suffer for eternity, and they actually expect to be happy in heaven while their children suffer unspeakable agony. Now, THAT's really cruel.
Seth, love your podcasts especially the ones with people calling in. Just an FYI to help you show. Kent Hovind's last name is pronounced with a long 'o'. At first I didn't know who you were talking about,
My mom has known I don't believe in god for years now, but always fights back tears when the topic of my beliefs or how I raise my daughter come up. This always makes me feel very awkward.
My grandma is most definitely a feeler. We don't even have to be talking about religion: her rebuttal is always "I don't want to argue about it," even if it's about a topic _she_ brought up. I can't remember if that was this podcast, or if it was the one about "Grief Without God". It's really late, but pre-sunshine early morning is the only time of day where I'm completely isolated. No distractions and the like. But yeah, I tend to treat religious affiliation as a personal thing, and thank the invisible pink unicorns that my grandparents agree with that sentiment, even if it does go against what they think is 'most' correct. I've always been something of a cantankerous child, so they probably think I'll grow out of it eventually. Ten years later, and I think their position hasn't changed at all. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you're appreciated at all levels of society. I know it isn't nearly as inspiring or dramatic as the typical 'squelched atheist' story, not to make light of their experience, as I've heard more than one telling that resulted in an unhappy ending. You don't need to hear it from me, but just keep trucking along, and we'll all keep watching.
7:24 The prank actually makes a really good point. Their parents are in a religion that teaches that everyone is sinful and that their children are destined for hell because they don't believe. Add to that they've compromised their morality by accepting this imaginary judgement and worshipping the god whom they believe will judge accordingly. Not to mention they wept tears of JOY because their children had GIVEN IN to this celestial tyrant (or so they thought), that's the cruel part IMHO.
“In grammar school they taught me that a frog turning into a prince was a fairy tale. In the university they taught me that a frog turning into a prince was fact.”-Ron Carlson quoted from “I don’t have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Dr. Norman Geisler, 2004, p. 137.
I’m not exactly an atheist but my mom tells me I’m going to hell and it’s probably the most heart breaking thing ever and it’s because I’m not a christian like she is.
My dad does the "if only I raised you better" speech every once in a while. He's catholic and talks about how the church is persecuted and how it's the most hated denomination and how more progressive it is from the others, but the only reason that parochial schools still teach evolution and accept modern ideals is because it just ignores what the religion is actually about. He claims certain things are christian ideals and others are not, but it seems his stuff sounds like common altruism.
In my neck of the woods, it can get to -20 degrees F in the winter or colder. So as a Minnesotan, when someone threatens me with hell, I want to tell them, "You're threatening me with HEAT? Really? Sounds good!"
That's what makes us similar, yet also different, I'm the only atheist in my family as far as I know, but my family still respect that I don't believe.
With the occasional exception, once you’ve gained enough of an understanding of the arguments against religious belief to duplicate them, they’ve sunk in and you’ve been deconverted.
My aunt continually tells me i'm going to hell - not for not believing - but for being gay and not believing. It takes everything I have not to say 'Oh good - then I won't have to listen to you anymore.'. I can bring the snark. I get so angry at people who tout that 'above all of these is love' telling me that loving the person I love is wrong. Yeah - not.
Just to clarify, it was George Bush Sr who said "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.… I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists"............"Jr" gave us many more quotes that were laughable. Love the show!!!! Keep it up!
Forgive me if I'm repeating what someone may have already posted but when Amanda, when asked if she was going to Hell, said she had already been to Michigan she may have been referring to the city of Hell, Michigan which is on the western side of Michigan. It's an actual city and a popular tourist area for people in this area. I don't think she was necessarily disrespecting the state as a whole.
My father caught my watching a Aron Ra video and told me I was going to Hell. And then had his girlfriend scare the shit out of my 10 year old brother by telling him that I, and my two older siblings, are going to burn forever. It wasn't what he said to me that angers me, but how he horrified my younger brother though his girlfriend so he would stay a christian.
Your completely right. But because me and my family are quite close it would be very hard for me to vision not talking to them or ignoring them. Saying that now my family aren't religious at all so they couldn't give a damn if i believe or not.
I love this podcast and appreciate people sharing their experiences. I myself figured out there was no "GOD" by the time I was 10 years old because my father beat me and my siblings violently and I wondered why a "loving God" would allow such a horrible thing to happen to us...so I decided god didn't exist! Plus my father used send my sister and I to church (on a bus) to put the "fear of god" in us because we weren't behaving the way he wanted us to. How messed up is that?!
The idea of hell is sick. It says that if you do not do and act the way that god wants you to do - then you will be punished forever. How is this merciful...or just? How can those in heaven enjoy it when they know that others are in hell? This religion is sick at every turn.
In Denmark April first isn't about pranks like many of the ones you mentioned. It's about making other people believe in a ridiculous story and then telling them 'April fools''... so the story about the voice recognizing dishwasher would work here.. the google search prank and the one about the tires wouldn't as it's all about FOOLING the victim.. not just doing a prank on them.
I know someone who told her neighbour that the first manned mission to the sun would be televised that day, but it'd be on really late because they could only land there at night. The woman sat up waiting to video it.
1) I have conversations with theists often. Possibly too often. The funny thing is, I'm not even the one who brings up the topic of religion. 2)I do not have faith, so I have nothing to build up. Yes, I do enjoy talking with my friends, who are mostly atheist, because I know at least they won't disown me like some of my family or friends, and I can actually count on these friends in important situations.
That's a sick dream for a simple creature. Infinite punishments for finite crimes... Infinite rewards without effort... it's a dream, nonsense. The universe isn't fair unless we make it so.
Changing the subject again. Does something exist merely because you defined it to exist? Oh, and about your question: here's a hypothesis. The unthinking, unpersonal Cosmos has always existed, and It is the uncaused cause. Through natural phenomena like virtual particules, string vibrations in multiple dimensions, or whatever proves to be more likely, the matter and energy of our universe emerged. There, perfectly viable hypothesis with no need of a magical person.
When I was growing up, I didn't know atheism was an option, since everyone I knew was Catholic, except for a few Protestants and Jews I knew, but they weren't family. I am sure I had the right religion, but then I was only 12.
a much better joke would be to get several friends together and pretend they were ruptured. You could arrange their cloths on the bet so it looked like they were taken away in their sleep. Go to a neighbors house and do the same thing. I agree that the conversion joke is too cruel though.
I try to say "son of a dog" one person asked me why I said dog? I replied "because dogs are more real then god". Loved the whole show this was a really good one keep up he good work.
The caller 29 minutes in said she had been an atheist for ten years, but is still using "passed away." In more recent videos/podcasts, I've heard Seth still doing it as well. I've always hated when people just can't say the words dead or died. When an atheist says "passed away," I always think "passed away to where since you don't believe in afterlife?" lol For people who came from deeply religious backgrounds, it's still habit to say it, I know..but...it always sounds a bit odd.
In Finland we do make April fools as well :) Mostly here it is about making a shocking lies and then laughing at those who believe :D Also pranks included!
Dude! Seth! Just remembered something awesome! There is a place smal place near the city of Trondheim here in Norway that is called Stjørdal. In Stjørdal there is a place that is actually called "Hell!" That's what you should do. If someone says "You're going to hell!" you should respond "Ooooo, I've always wanted to go to Norway" : ) I'm not kidding. What's even better is they you can stay at the "Hell Hotel" and go through the "Hell tunnel." Best part is I'm not kidding, google it : P
I really liked listening to this podcast, and I definitely agree that it's ludicrous that parents would believe that their child would go to hell for not believing in their religion. I'm kind of on the fence with religion (leaning towards atheism, I suppose that would make me agnostic), but I definitely believe that any good and compassionate god, any god that I would respect, would not punish an otherwise decent person for being a skeptic.
I totally share your thoughts on the April fool's day. Those jokes may be really harmful. As for the "hell" subject, funny enough but even my very religious Dad (who died few years ago) would never try to scare me like that. And he was very disappointed when I said I was an agnostic. Of all people I know, even those I secretly call "fanatics", they would never ever threaten their kids with hell. The worst thing they might say is "Don't make the god mad!" haha. I'm lucky to live in the country that has a veeery long relationship with religions. Nowadays people are much more free, no one denies evolution theory even if believes in a god. Supporting each other and being kind went far away from being religious.
You do realize that no matter how much you define something, that doesn't make it so, right? Reason is not observation, no matter how many philosophical backflips you do. You only know real things if you observe something about them. Everything else is ideas.
My highly religious grandparents are driving 1,000 miles to see me graduate from high school, and I have a good feeling that there's going to be some kind of "coming-of-age" Christian pep talk. This has happened before and it's terrifying... so naturally this subject really hit home. Thank you for taking on this subject. Any advice from the community on how I might deal with this?
At 13 min mark, I just had to deal with that today. I was out with my mother and brother and when the food came, my mother wanted me to pray. I said I do not pray and she immediately jumped on why I did not pray. She was "Offended" because I did not believe in something she believed in. I about lost my appetite because like you said my mother wanted me to think for my own but she just didn't like what I said.
If you family tells you, "You are going to Hell," you are probably already there or in a nightmare. You need to see the Holy Ghost. It helps if you turn off all the lights, oh, and you paint the Holy Ghost on the ceiling with fluorescent paint first.
It was actually George H.W. Bush who said: "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.… I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists." Just correcting the slight error.
vcomp1960 Hell is in Michigan, northwest of Ann Arbor and southwest of Pinckney. It's a nice little town though it is frozen over right now. I would say, though, that there are some rather lovely places in Texas. San Antonio has been my favorite so far, but I would love to go on the bat cruise in Austin with the ACA.
“ Nowhere was Darwin able to point to one bona fide case of natural selection having actually generated evolutionary change in nature…Ultimately, the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century .”-Michael Denton, Evolution : A Theory in Crises (Bethesda, Maryland: Adler & Adler, 1986 pp. 62, 358.
Sherman says he asked: "Do you support the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?" not your supposed question of:" "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?" Slightly different wording, but when we are talking quotes, different wording is a sign of a misquotation. A paraphrase, not a quote. This was a press conference about townships that had been declared flood disaster relief areas. Sherman was trying to make news.
@jacobreinvented Situations described in the video, as well as yours, makes me consider how much trouble religion causes. Especially because... there is no villain in these scenarios. Your mother and you probably loves each other. There is no evil person wishing trouble. There is only a pointless system making people make wrong decisions. There is only pointless fear.
Given that Gabe's father is a Unitarian Universalist, I'm surprised that his father would have any part in harassing him over being an atheist. Although UUs are free to believe whatever they please, and there is much diversity among the beliefs of UUs, the denomination came about from the merger of two Christian denominations that did not believe in Hell. Universalism is the name for the doctrine that everyone will be saved. Agreement on this made both denominations inclusive enough to merge.
I would of done a gag about converting to Zeus and propping a lightning bolt strike on the front lawn. But I would only do it if I was sure they would get the joke. I can think of a few gods this might work with. To much time and effort for me to do that prank.
I laughed at the hell Michigan thing. There is an actual town/city in Michigan called Hell, and that is where I am actually from. And further north in Michigan we have Paradise, which is just a beautiful area.
It never ceases to amaze me that Christians come onto atheist videos to argue... As if we would just, "see the light" and join the body of Christ... As if we hadn't already waded through a counter culture current opposing our thoughts... As if they have some incredible wisdom that we missed... The sheer arrogance and insult... It flabbergasts me.
a)I don't think they can. b)What are you talking about? If you speak of god, I don't see how it could have come from infinite joinings of nonbeing, unless it IS nonbeing, in which case it only needs one non-being to not exist. If you speak of people, then I don't know what theory you are talking about. Certainly it's neither big bang, abiogenesis nor evolution. c) Still avoiding my question: Does defining something as existing be evidence that it does exist?
@TheThinkingAtheist Ah, I agree the show flows very well, but I assume some of the callers are looking for some advice aswell, like the kid who called in this time. Spending a few more minutes with such calls might be rewarding for both the caller and the listeners and still keeping the flow going. I enjoy the shows very much anyhow, but it might be something to consider.
You're skipping through calls very fast, TheThinkingAtheist... It's probably a radio host habit you have, but I'd like to see some more in-depth calls. What do you think?
Please note when reading this that I'm using gross generalisation and that I'm not saying everyone falls into one category or another. For some time I've considered the archetypes of comedy. I found that on average, each country or culture or region had it's own preferred flavour. Aussies are often slightly clownish, exagerate for comedic and entertaining effect and are sometimes rather ribald. (Ironbark Jim springs to mind.) Americans are generally focused on ridicule or mockery. (Think Seinfeld. "What is it with ? Aren't they stupid?") England/Brit/Whatever have become clownish. Monty Python, Goon Show, Gervais and similar. Finland is supposedly all fart jokes. Germany was straight up ribald, at least after the war. I'm less familiar with those. The big ones are of course American and English humour. English, the clown, acts silly and invites the audience to laugh at or with the performer. American ridicules, points the finger at a third party and invites the audience to laugh at them. The former is fun, because all involved are consenting. The latter is not, because someone's emotions are being treated as disposable or not worthy of consideration. April Fools is practiced to a degree here in Australia, and we get a mix of pranks. The best, in my opinion, are the silly ones. The tyres on the flagpole. The VW Bug car carefully picked up and placed neatly between two traffic pilons so there's only half an inch of clearance front and back. Relatively victimless, where the butt of the joke is part of the joke and invited to laugh along. Less funny are the ones where the victim is mistreated. Hair removal gel mixed into the shampoo or the head shaved while the victim sleeps. Clothes soaked in urine the night before an interview. Things like that. Better to laugh with than to laugh at.
I guess I agree with what Seth is saying here. But honestly, its hard for me to be compassionate with anyone who worships the god that will condemn me to hell as the epitome of perfect justice. Granted, I've never had a true loved one who held that particular position.
Well the once saved always saved has two forms. The you are saved no matter what you do, and the if you do anything bad or leave the church you were never truly saved to begin with.
Personally, I would never pull a prank like that on my family or any religious friends, but I wonder how many religious people could successfully pull the opposite prank on nonreligious friends. I imagine not too many. Given the tremendous difficulty entailed in persuading the religious to just get our arguments right, I can only figure that they remain religious by consciously tuning those arguments out.
In my case, my parents just think that my education is the reason why I've been reasoned out of my religion with some false knowledge or some such nonsense. Apparently they missed my profound skepticism concerning the Bible over the years.
My parents simply ignore my atheism. I've told them that if they ever bring up religious superstitions to my son, he'll just think them crazy from then on; losing all credibility with him. I'm no nonsense about it. When your sons sanity is it stake, you can't take chances.
I once called my (also atheist) mom on April 1st and told her I was going to be a nun.
She laughed so hard she dropped the phone. 😁
Now this is funny. I think my family would react the same way way (I'm atheist their some what religious).
Yeah, see this is funny. Really good comedy respects consent. You consented to be the butt of the joke and invited your mother to join you in laughing at the absurdity. In the example of a similar joke Seth gives in the podcast where the person claimed to have converted, the family were the butt of the joke and did not consent.
31:50... you didn't know there was a town called Hell? She wasn't dissing Michigan.
Dude you rock, didnt know you were an athiest
@@onebigfool7737 ty!
A guy I knew years ago lived near Hell, MI, for several years (long before we met). I doubt I'd have known the town existed if not for him. He reckoned the town was named due to how cold it is in winter that it's as cold as whichever level(s) of hell are the frozen ones.
This is what I needed to hear. I was finally able to connect with a group of like minded atheist whom I can talk with. I am greatful for that
I loved the story of Pascals Extortion. "Come to church or you kids are going to die."
God is the king of douches.
I am so thankful that you are doing what you do. You allow Atheists and Theists an outlet to discuss faith and lack thereof in an environment that cultivates understanding and respect. So many, on both sides, encourage so much negativity and hate toward their "enemy" that you are truly a breath of fresh air.
I think that The Thinking Atheist is one of the best "round table" discussion forums for believers and nonbelievers alike. Seth, you truly present the topics and engage in the conversation in a most humble and sincere way. Many of the "famous" atheists out there have an attitude that often can be taken as angry and arrogant. That is effective for some, but I think most believers are turned off by that. Your demeanor makes us all feel comfortable to talk honestly about faith. Thank you!
At about the hour mark: "Jesus! A week?"
It used to take me much, much longer to get over one of these arguments. Now it usually takes only a few days. I am, by nature, really sensitive, which is true of about 15-20% of any "higher animal" population.
My deconversion and "coming out", sans support, was extremely difficult.
Kudos to the BYU student that Stands strong in his Disbelief (I was raised In Mormon country although I was Catholic & It is the Mormons & living there as a teenager that Made me become a Free-Thinker) -- Hats off to you & Stay strong & Just be You! Aloha!
We had a leaky basement when I was very young. One April Fools I stood at the top of the basement stairs and yelled the basement was flooding. Dad came running and I could see by the look on his face I'd made a mistake. I took off at a run and didn't come back till supper time!!!. Peace and Love from Canada.
you have the kind of voice that I imagine saying "Captains log of the Starship Enterprise"
Seth, I have only just found this wonderful channel on the internet today. I have been an avid listener of Christopher Hitchens for a while now and it is encouraging and inspiring to listen to your 'free thinking'. The stories are real, and the problems are all of ours as a race. I only wish that our race, rather than worshiping aspects of life that bare no majesty or light, find light in the worship of our race and companionship. And maybe someday we can all live that free life
I dunno if I'd go so far as to worship humanity, but if you change that to 'respect' then I can get behind that sentiment. What many people don't understand is that humanity is part of a larger ecosystem. A planetary one. Promote any one part of that excessively and the whole will suffer. But we can certainly treat each other better, and treat the whole better.
God, revivals were just pure hell when I was a kid! Gotta go to church every day!? For a whole week? Yeah, fuck that shit.
My dad changed his belief from once saved always saved to I am going to hell when he found out I no longer believe. I think he did that to scare me onto believing again. As if that works. Haha.
My parents think I became an agnostic because of TH-cam atheists. Sometimes they threaten to take away my internet privileges. Sometimes I'm tempted to lie to them and say I want to be a christian again. Not just because I want to use the internet, no, but because I know they think I'm stupid now and they think I'm going to hell. I just don't want to lie. If only hell wasn't a part of this religion so they wouldn't be bothered by this. They're hoping if I learn more about this religion I'll change my mind. They think this is just a phase.
I hope it's going well Dark Splash. Very courageous brother. I can't imagine how it is having to deal with that, I grew up in a christian family, but christian in name only. I hope they end up accepting you for what you are, their son, no matter your belief system
Steven Mathews Haha! I'm their daughter, not their son. But thanks!
lol, sorry :) all's well?
Steven Mathews Yep ^~^
awesome, good to know sister ; )
I haven't come out as an atheist yet, but I can already feel the guilt trips the Mormin church places on both the "apostates" and their families. It's well-established LDS doctrine that, if the parents do a good enough job teaching the gospel, the children can't ever leave the church.
Make the move and break free. You don't need their cult doctrine. This apostate bullshit is just the stick created to keep the sheep in the pen.
I am so glad that my parents don't care that i'm an atheist. Even one of my grandmothers once said that everyone has to decide for themselves about their believes. I was absolutely baffled by that because she went to church on a regular basis and everything. At least she did that when my grandfather was still alive. I'm a bit worried about my muslim flat mate and his girlfriend (who recently figured out, she is a deist) though. I hope, that works out okay.
I was going to comment on how your invisible gun thing was not at all like the argument of hell, then I realized that it was exactly like you said. Very well said my friend.
My dad is a devout catholic, although he doesn't know I'm an atheist for sure yet, he has talked to other family members worrying about my faith. He and I don't have much of a relationship to begin with, and I really don't want to add new tension. Even though I don't have a good relationship with him I still have a great relationship with the rest of that side of my family.
this has probably been pointed out already but the "I don't think Atheists should be considered Americans, this is one nation under God" quote was George Bush senior, not junior.
Great episode, always enjoy these.
Don't worry, be HAPPY!
Stop the hate.
We are ALL human beings.
On the same planet...
Have a good time, however short,
and it IS short.
my mom is part of a pentecostal church...... the things that come out of her mouth make me think "okay, I MUST be adopted..... there's no way I came from someone like her...."
Good on you for bringing up what you did in the intro, Seth. The immaturity of some atheists give others bad names.
"I'd rather take a close friend than a distant relative"
Oh yeah... I feel the same way.
I'm with Gabe. My family and I were completely separate for more than ten years with no contact whatsoever. Now that mother and father are gone, there is again no contact at all with anyone in my family because of their religious beliefs and my choice not to believe in the talking snakes and magic trees. I do not miss them at all. The intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, and irrational beliefs and behaviors - I don't miss that either.
Always happy when I see you have posted a new podcast.
Thank you.
You're right, I wouldn't tell my family if they were religious, that I had suddenly become religious again, because I've seen how much some peoples family hurts to be told in the first place that their kid is an atheist. So to be told again as a joke is really cruel. True admittance of being an atheist shouldn't bring pain and should be fine, but for the time being people know it's not. These people pulling this prank should think about what it would be like to have their kids tell them they're an atheist, then turn round and say "sorry dad I'm still Christian and I'm going to heaven and you're still going to hell"
While I agree 90%, I think your last sentence misses the mark. An atheist parent doesn't think he's really going to hell, or that his child will suffer for eternity for not sharing his beliefs. At most being a Christian limits your worldview and causes inconvenience, but it doesn't subject you to torture, unlike what religious parents think will happen to atheist children.
I felt kinda bad after I was done with my short laugh after that "athiest-gone-religious" april fools joke. I laughed, then I realized, that seems like reopening a really big wound where your parents see that you are going to hell and cannot save you. It must be like watching a cat being run over, then the april fools joke brings it back again just to have it squish into the pavement once more. That's pretty cruel.
Excellent as always, inspiring at the end.
I hope you do a show on all the anti-evolution bills they're passing some time.
The prank was, indeed, cruel. But how cruel is it for the parents to tell their children that they can accept that the children are going to hell, accept the very idea that their own children DESERVE to suffer for eternity, and they actually expect to be happy in heaven while their children suffer unspeakable agony. Now, THAT's really cruel.
Seth, love your podcasts especially the ones with people calling in. Just an FYI to help you show. Kent Hovind's last name is pronounced with a long 'o'. At first I didn't know who you were talking about,
My mom has known I don't believe in god for years now, but always fights back tears when the topic of my beliefs or how I raise my daughter come up. This always makes me feel very awkward.
My grandma is most definitely a feeler. We don't even have to be talking about religion: her rebuttal is always "I don't want to argue about it," even if it's about a topic _she_ brought up. I can't remember if that was this podcast, or if it was the one about "Grief Without God". It's really late, but pre-sunshine early morning is the only time of day where I'm completely isolated. No distractions and the like.
But yeah, I tend to treat religious affiliation as a personal thing, and thank the invisible pink unicorns that my grandparents agree with that sentiment, even if it does go against what they think is 'most' correct. I've always been something of a cantankerous child, so they probably think I'll grow out of it eventually. Ten years later, and I think their position hasn't changed at all.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you're appreciated at all levels of society. I know it isn't nearly as inspiring or dramatic as the typical 'squelched atheist' story, not to make light of their experience, as I've heard more than one telling that resulted in an unhappy ending. You don't need to hear it from me, but just keep trucking along, and we'll all keep watching.
7:24
The prank actually makes a really good point.
Their parents are in a religion that teaches that everyone is sinful and that their children are destined for hell because they don't believe.
Add to that they've compromised their morality by accepting this imaginary judgement and worshipping the god whom they believe will judge accordingly.
Not to mention they wept tears of JOY because their children had GIVEN IN to this celestial tyrant (or so they thought), that's the cruel part IMHO.
“In grammar school they taught me that a frog turning into a prince was a fairy tale. In the university they taught me that a frog turning into a prince was fact.”-Ron Carlson quoted from “I don’t have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Dr. Norman Geisler, 2004, p. 137.
I’m not exactly an atheist but my mom tells me I’m going to hell and it’s probably the most heart breaking thing ever and it’s because I’m not a christian like she is.
I didn't notice that it lasted for more than an hour! Whoa.
More power to you, sir!
My dad does the "if only I raised you better" speech every once in a while. He's catholic and talks about how the church is persecuted and how it's the most hated denomination and how more progressive it is from the others, but the only reason that parochial schools still teach evolution and accept modern ideals is because it just ignores what the religion is actually about. He claims certain things are christian ideals and others are not, but it seems his stuff sounds like common altruism.
In my neck of the woods, it can get to -20 degrees F in the winter or colder. So as a Minnesotan, when someone threatens me with hell, I want to tell them, "You're threatening me with HEAT? Really? Sounds good!"
That's what makes us similar, yet also different, I'm the only atheist in my family as far as I know, but my family still respect that I don't believe.
Same here.My family knows and they don't care but no one is an asshole about it😊
With the occasional exception, once you’ve gained enough of an understanding of the arguments against religious belief to duplicate them, they’ve sunk in and you’ve been deconverted.
My aunt continually tells me i'm going to hell - not for not believing - but for being gay and not believing. It takes everything I have not to say 'Oh good - then I won't have to listen to you anymore.'. I can bring the snark. I get so angry at people who tout that 'above all of these is love' telling me that loving the person I love is wrong. Yeah - not.
Just to clarify, it was George Bush Sr who said "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.… I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists"............"Jr" gave us many more quotes that were laughable.
Love the show!!!! Keep it up!
I don't like prank jokes. Doing something bad and then saying April Fools doesn't make up for it.
Forgive me if I'm repeating what someone may have already posted but when Amanda, when asked if she was going to Hell, said she had already been to Michigan she may have been referring to the city of Hell, Michigan which is on the western side of Michigan. It's an actual city and a popular tourist area for people in this area. I don't think she was necessarily disrespecting the state as a whole.
My father caught my watching a Aron Ra video and told me I was going to Hell. And then had his girlfriend scare the shit out of my 10 year old brother by telling him that I, and my two older siblings, are going to burn forever. It wasn't what he said to me that angers me, but how he horrified my younger brother though his girlfriend so he would stay a christian.
Your completely right. But because me and my family are quite close it would be very hard for me to vision not talking to them or ignoring them. Saying that now my family aren't religious at all so they couldn't give a damn if i believe or not.
I love this podcast and appreciate people sharing their experiences. I myself figured out there was no "GOD" by the time I was 10 years old because my father beat me and my siblings violently and I wondered why a "loving God" would allow such a horrible thing to happen to us...so I decided god didn't exist! Plus my father used send my sister and I to church (on a bus) to put the "fear of god" in us because we weren't behaving the way he wanted us to. How messed up is that?!
My dad is a religious moderate, so when I told him, he didn't even flinch. My mom? I'll never tell. It's just that simple.
The idea of hell is sick. It says that if you do not do and act the way that god wants you to do - then you will be punished forever. How is this merciful...or just? How can those in heaven enjoy it when they know that others are in hell? This religion is sick at every turn.
There really is a town called Hell in Michigan. Michigan was not being dissed.
In Denmark April first isn't about pranks like many of the ones you mentioned. It's about making other people believe in a ridiculous story and then telling them 'April fools''... so the story about the voice recognizing dishwasher would work here.. the google search prank and the one about the tires wouldn't as it's all about FOOLING the victim.. not just doing a prank on them.
I know someone who told her neighbour that the first manned mission to the sun would be televised that day, but it'd be on really late because they could only land there at night.
The woman sat up waiting to video it.
1) I have conversations with theists often. Possibly too often. The funny thing is, I'm not even the one who brings up the topic of religion.
2)I do not have faith, so I have nothing to build up. Yes, I do enjoy talking with my friends, who are mostly atheist, because I know at least they won't disown me like some of my family or friends, and I can actually count on these friends in important situations.
That's a sick dream for a simple creature. Infinite punishments for finite crimes... Infinite rewards without effort... it's a dream, nonsense. The universe isn't fair unless we make it so.
Changing the subject again. Does something exist merely because you defined it to exist?
Oh, and about your question: here's a hypothesis. The unthinking, unpersonal Cosmos has always existed, and It is the uncaused cause. Through natural phenomena like virtual particules, string vibrations in multiple dimensions, or whatever proves to be more likely, the matter and energy of our universe emerged. There, perfectly viable hypothesis with no need of a magical person.
When I was growing up, I didn't know atheism was an option, since everyone I knew was Catholic, except for a few Protestants and Jews I knew, but they weren't family.
I am sure I had the right religion, but then I was only 12.
a much better joke would be to get several friends together and pretend they were ruptured. You could arrange their cloths on the bet so it looked like they were taken away in their sleep. Go to a neighbors house and do the same thing.
I agree that the conversion joke is too cruel though.
I try to say "son of a dog" one person asked me why I said dog? I replied "because dogs are more real then god". Loved the whole show this was a really good one keep up he good work.
Man, that last story is pretty damn uplifting.
I'm so glad I was not raised in a town where you are under the fish eye lens.
HAHAHAHA When I worked at McDonalds I used to tape over the mouse laser. I thought I invented that!
The caller 29 minutes in said she had been an atheist for ten years, but is still using "passed away." In more recent videos/podcasts, I've heard Seth still doing it as well. I've always hated when people just can't say the words dead or died. When an atheist says "passed away," I always think "passed away to where since you don't believe in afterlife?" lol
For people who came from deeply religious backgrounds, it's still habit to say it, I know..but...it always sounds a bit odd.
In Finland we do make April fools as well :) Mostly here it is about making a shocking lies and then laughing at those who believe :D Also pranks included!
Dude! Seth! Just remembered something awesome!
There is a place smal place near the city of Trondheim here in Norway that is called Stjørdal. In Stjørdal there is a place that is actually called "Hell!" That's what you should do.
If someone says "You're going to hell!" you should respond "Ooooo, I've always wanted to go to Norway" : )
I'm not kidding. What's even better is they you can stay at the "Hell Hotel" and go through the "Hell tunnel." Best part is I'm not kidding, google it : P
I really liked listening to this podcast, and I definitely agree that it's ludicrous that parents would believe that their child would go to hell for not believing in their religion. I'm kind of on the fence with religion (leaning towards atheism, I suppose that would make me agnostic), but I definitely believe that any good and compassionate god, any god that I would respect, would not punish an otherwise decent person for being a skeptic.
I honestly think the conversion prank is more to the benefit of the pranked than the prankster.
I totally share your thoughts on the April fool's day. Those jokes may be really harmful.
As for the "hell" subject, funny enough but even my very religious Dad (who died few years ago) would never try to scare me like that. And he was very disappointed when I said I was an agnostic. Of all people I know, even those I secretly call "fanatics", they would never ever threaten their kids with hell. The worst thing they might say is "Don't make the god mad!" haha. I'm lucky to live in the country that has a veeery long relationship with religions. Nowadays people are much more free, no one denies evolution theory even if believes in a god. Supporting each other and being kind went far away from being religious.
@jordant1717 But isn't there a small town in Michigan actually named "Hell?"
You do realize that no matter how much you define something, that doesn't make it so, right? Reason is not observation, no matter how many philosophical backflips you do. You only know real things if you observe something about them. Everything else is ideas.
I read the New AND Old Testaments as a Christian in the way you described. I later became an atheist.
Man those april fools were indeed cruel.
My highly religious grandparents are driving 1,000 miles to see me graduate from high school, and I have a good feeling that there's going to be some kind of "coming-of-age" Christian pep talk. This has happened before and it's terrifying... so naturally this subject really hit home. Thank you for taking on this subject.
Any advice from the community on how I might deal with this?
At 13 min mark, I just had to deal with that today. I was out with my mother and brother and when the food came, my mother wanted me to pray. I said I do not pray and she immediately jumped on why I did not pray. She was "Offended" because I did not believe in something she believed in. I about lost my appetite because like you said my mother wanted me to think for my own but she just didn't like what I said.
I haven't got this yet from my family but i have on TH-cam my family eludes to it they have yet to flat out say it but its coming i can feel it
If you family tells you, "You are going to Hell," you are probably already there or in a nightmare.
You need to see the Holy Ghost.
It helps if you turn off all the lights,
oh, and you paint the Holy Ghost on the ceiling with fluorescent paint first.
It was actually George H.W. Bush who said: "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.… I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists." Just correcting the slight error.
At 31:40, its because there's a town in Michigan named "Hell"
I've been to Hell and back. lol
GreenmanDave
I've never been to hell but I lived in Texas. Does that count?
vcomp1960 Hell is in Michigan, northwest of Ann Arbor and southwest of Pinckney. It's a nice little town though it is frozen over right now. I would say, though, that there are some rather lovely places in Texas. San Antonio has been my favorite so far, but I would love to go on the bat cruise in Austin with the ACA.
I talked to a lady on the phone whose last name was "Hell". I work at a call center
“ Nowhere was Darwin able to point to one bona fide case of natural selection having actually generated evolutionary change in nature…Ultimately, the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century .”-Michael Denton, Evolution : A Theory in Crises (Bethesda, Maryland: Adler & Adler, 1986 pp. 62, 358.
Sherman says he asked: "Do you support the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"
not your supposed question of:" "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"
Slightly different wording, but when we are talking quotes, different wording is a sign of a misquotation. A paraphrase, not a quote.
This was a press conference about townships that had been declared flood disaster relief areas. Sherman was trying to make news.
@jacobreinvented Situations described in the video, as well as yours, makes me consider how much trouble religion causes. Especially because... there is no villain in these scenarios. Your mother and you probably loves each other. There is no evil person wishing trouble. There is only a pointless system making people make wrong decisions. There is only pointless fear.
Given that Gabe's father is a Unitarian Universalist, I'm surprised that his father would have any part in harassing him over being an atheist. Although UUs are free to believe whatever they please, and there is much diversity among the beliefs of UUs, the denomination came about from the merger of two Christian denominations that did not believe in Hell. Universalism is the name for the doctrine that everyone will be saved. Agreement on this made both denominations inclusive enough to merge.
In Mexico, on 28th December we have "Dia de los Inocentes" which means "Naive's Day" which is the exact think as April Fools just different date.
I agree with you so much Seth. You are a great man.
There actually is a Hell, Michigan. The town's page is called Hell2u. They take it in good stride.
I would of done a gag about converting to Zeus and propping a lightning bolt strike on the front lawn. But I would only do it if I was sure they would get the joke.
I can think of a few gods this might work with.
To much time and effort for me to do that prank.
I laughed at the hell Michigan thing. There is an actual town/city in Michigan called Hell, and that is where I am actually from. And further north in Michigan we have Paradise, which is just a beautiful area.
It never ceases to amaze me that Christians come onto atheist videos to argue... As if we would just, "see the light" and join the body of Christ... As if we hadn't already waded through a counter culture current opposing our thoughts... As if they have some incredible wisdom that we missed... The sheer arrogance and insult... It flabbergasts me.
a)I don't think they can.
b)What are you talking about? If you speak of god, I don't see how it could have come from infinite joinings of nonbeing, unless it IS nonbeing, in which case it only needs one non-being to not exist. If you speak of people, then I don't know what theory you are talking about. Certainly it's neither big bang, abiogenesis nor evolution.
c) Still avoiding my question: Does defining something as existing be evidence that it does exist?
The Michigan line was not an insult. Hell is the name of a city in Michigan.
@TheThinkingAtheist Ah, I agree the show flows very well, but I assume some of the callers are looking for some advice aswell, like the kid who called in this time. Spending a few more minutes with such calls might be rewarding for both the caller and the listeners and still keeping the flow going. I enjoy the shows very much anyhow, but it might be something to consider.
Be not just a thinking atheist, but a thoughtful atheist.
You're skipping through calls very fast, TheThinkingAtheist... It's probably a radio host habit you have, but I'd like to see some more in-depth calls. What do you think?
And here is an example of what Sifernos was talking about.
Please note when reading this that I'm using gross generalisation and that I'm not saying everyone falls into one category or another.
For some time I've considered the archetypes of comedy. I found that on average, each country or culture or region had it's own preferred flavour. Aussies are often slightly clownish, exagerate for comedic and entertaining effect and are sometimes rather ribald. (Ironbark Jim springs to mind.) Americans are generally focused on ridicule or mockery. (Think Seinfeld. "What is it with ? Aren't they stupid?") England/Brit/Whatever have become clownish. Monty Python, Goon Show, Gervais and similar. Finland is supposedly all fart jokes. Germany was straight up ribald, at least after the war. I'm less familiar with those.
The big ones are of course American and English humour. English, the clown, acts silly and invites the audience to laugh at or with the performer. American ridicules, points the finger at a third party and invites the audience to laugh at them. The former is fun, because all involved are consenting. The latter is not, because someone's emotions are being treated as disposable or not worthy of consideration.
April Fools is practiced to a degree here in Australia, and we get a mix of pranks. The best, in my opinion, are the silly ones. The tyres on the flagpole. The VW Bug car carefully picked up and placed neatly between two traffic pilons so there's only half an inch of clearance front and back. Relatively victimless, where the butt of the joke is part of the joke and invited to laugh along. Less funny are the ones where the victim is mistreated. Hair removal gel mixed into the shampoo or the head shaved while the victim sleeps. Clothes soaked in urine the night before an interview. Things like that.
Better to laugh with than to laugh at.
I guess I agree with what Seth is saying here.
But honestly, its hard for me to be compassionate with anyone who worships the god that will condemn me to hell as the epitome of perfect justice.
Granted, I've never had a true loved one who held that particular position.
Well the once saved always saved has two forms. The you are saved no matter what you do, and the if you do anything bad or leave the church you were never truly saved to begin with.
Personally, I would never pull a prank like that on my family or any religious friends, but I wonder how many religious people could successfully pull the opposite prank on nonreligious friends. I imagine not too many. Given the tremendous difficulty entailed in persuading the religious to just get our arguments right, I can only figure that they remain religious by consciously tuning those arguments out.
In my case, my parents just think that my education is the reason why I've been reasoned out of my religion with some false knowledge or some such nonsense. Apparently they missed my profound skepticism concerning the Bible over the years.
i havnt told my family i don't believe in god. my grandma wants me to be a priest, i don't think she would take it well.